Wow, it went from 380 to 400+ with nothing worth responding to..... Where are the moderators? May as well shut this one down. It has digressed to a point where members are telling other members to stop posting. Mr. or Mrs. Moderator do you need anymore before you act?
Member Steamfitters Local 614 USMC Veteran 1981-1992 Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
Did you read my following post? I think poe58 should do those four things. In return, I think the feedback should be mutually withdrawn, and this thread ended.
Young Numismatist that collects: Morgan Dollars, SAE, Proof Sets, and Liberty Nickels. I also love to go through rolls to find coins. BST MySlabbedCoins
<< <i>If I were poe58, I would: 1. refund the money including shipping, 2. sell only certified coins on ebay, 3. admit on this thread that I was wrong, 4. and ask for the coin in question back. OK. This is just my opinion. >>
Most reasonable people would agree to this. What is amazing is that Poe58 in an attempt to stick Mirabela with this coin, is probably costing himself multiples of the purchase price of the coin by showing a lot of potential buyers that he does not stand behind what he sells. He has no concept of customer service and goodwill.
Thank you for your concern coinerww, but this is far less importance to me than you presume! I do like your emblem though. It is a lot better than looking like a monkey! Well if you are bochiman, then you are!
Poe58, did you read my suggestions. Would you please do them?
Young Numismatist that collects: Morgan Dollars, SAE, Proof Sets, and Liberty Nickels. I also love to go through rolls to find coins. BST MySlabbedCoins
<< <i>Thank you for your concern coinerww, but this is far less importance to me than you presume! I do like your emblem though. It is a lot better than looking like a monkey! Well if you are bochiman, then you are! >>
Wow! What a quick wit (nitwit that is) you are.
A monkey. and you don't like my coin.
Do you even know what it is? I am sure the darksiders do, and even a lot of the people here.
To keep it coin related, and so you can actually learn something from your foray here....
It is a coin from the Australian Lunar Series. It's a 1oz gold "Year of the Monkey". The lunar calendar, something that is largely related to asians, is a 12 year cycle. 2004 was the cycle year for the year of the monkey. I was born in the year of the monkey (not this year though....most people would realize that, but I am not sure you could realize that on your own) so I like using the image. btw....is that your own icon image you use? Please, tell us that it is. We will all know it isn't, but you seem to like to tell people that something is true that isn't.
Anyway, poo58/joeschmoo or whatever.....people HAVE tried to help you with the right things to do (as a human, as a seller, as an ANA member, etc) and you have rebuffed one and all. You refuse to believe things that actually occur (do you think the earth is still flat as well?). I just don't get why some people (re: poo58, catfish, and a few others ....) are so dense as to try to argue a point where they are clearly in the wrong????
Young Numismatist that collects: Morgan Dollars, SAE, Proof Sets, and Liberty Nickels. I also love to go through rolls to find coins. BST MySlabbedCoins
Hello again I understand your motivation K6AZ. Since you are a power seller and it would benefit you for me to close- up shop.
I sell very seldom on ebay. So I have the same question, you are back to claiming he switched the coins even though your picture matches the picture of the coin he received and that it would have been far easier for him to claim he never received the coin?
With so many "power sellers" on ebay, I find that claim to be ludicrous.
Young Numismatist that collects: Morgan Dollars, SAE, Proof Sets, and Liberty Nickels. I also love to go through rolls to find coins. BST MySlabbedCoins
Not to sound repetative, but isn't the real issue that Poe has engaged in a deceptive selling practice - grossly over-grading a coin, printing a Return policy that is non-existent and then claiming that the person he screwed (Mirabela) is A) either switching the coin or altering it to somehow try and discredit him (Poe)?
I will give catfish credit for one thing - he has remained civil, but that doesn't change the fact that his "defense" of Poe is for the most part baseless and at times even spurious (Catfish- that means false, or or a false nature).
I think Catfish & Poe are alter egos of each other, with Catfish the more literate half, and perhaps the more intelligent of this dynamic duo.
Mirabela should be aware that Ohio has a Consumer Protection law. It's called the Consumer Sales Practices Act. RC 1345.21-1345.28 - I believe it makes deceptive sales practices unlawful.
Here's the pertinant section:
§ 1345.02. Unfair or deceptive consumer sales practices prohibited.
(A) No supplier shall commit an unfair or deceptive act or practice in connection with a consumer transaction. Such an unfair or deceptive act or practice by a supplier violates this section whether it occurs before, during, or after the transaction.
(B) Without limiting the scope of division (A) of this section, the act or practice of a supplier in representing any of the following is deceptive:
(1) That the subject of a consumer transaction has sponsorship, approval, performance characteristics, accessories, uses, or benefits that it does not have;
(2) That the subject of a consumer transaction is of a particular standard, quality, grade, style, prescription, or model, if it is not;
(3) That the subject of a consumer transaction is new, or unused, if it is not;
(4) That the subject of a consumer transaction is available to the consumer for a reason that does not exist;
(5) That the subject of a consumer transaction has been supplied in accordance with a previous representation, if it has not, except that the act of a supplier in furnishing similar merchandise of equal or greater value as a good faith substitute does not violate this section;
Looks like Poe has violated 1-4. Mirabela has a private remedy and if a curt were to find the Poe Intentionally violated the act Mirabela could recover attorney fees in addition to his damages.
§ 1345.09. Private remedies.
For a violation of Chapter 1345. of the Revised Code, a consumer has a cause of action and is entitled to relief as follows:
(A) Where the violation was an act prohibited by section 1345.02 or 1345.03 of the Revised Code, the consumer may, in an individual action, rescind the transaction or recover his damages.
(B) Where the violation was an act or practice declared to be deceptive or unconscionable by rule adopted under division (B)(2) of section 1345.05 of the Revised Code before the consumer transaction on which the action is based, or an act or practice determined by a court of this state to violate section 1345.02 or 1345.03 of the Revised Code and committed after the decision containing the determination has been made available for public inspection under division (A)(3) of section 1345.05 of the Revised Code, the consumer may rescind the transaction or recover, but not in a class action, three times the amount of his actual damages or two hundred dollars, whichever is greater, or recover damages or other appropriate relief in a class action under Civil Rule 23, as amended.
(C) In any action for rescission, revocation of the consumer transaction must occur within a reasonable time after the consumer discovers or should have discovered the ground for it and before any substantial change in condition of the subject of the consumer transaction.
(D) Any consumer may seek a declaratory judgment, an injunction, or other appropriate relief against an act or practice that violates this chapter.
(E) When a consumer commences an individual action for a declaratory judgment or an injunction or a class action under this section, the clerk of court shall immediately mail a copy of the complaint to the attorney general. Upon timely application, the attorney general may be permitted to intervene in any private action or appeal pending under this section. When a judgment under this section becomes final, the clerk of court shall mail a copy of the judgment including supporting opinions to the attorney general for inclusion in the public file maintained under division (A)(3) of section 1345.05 of the Revised Code.
(F) The court may award to the prevailing party a reasonable attorney's fee limited to the work reasonably performed, if either of the following apply:
(1) The consumer complaining of the act or practice that violated this chapter has brought or maintained an action that is groundless, and the consumer filed or maintained the action in bad faith;
(2) The supplier has knowingly committed an act or practice that violates this chapter.
So As soon as Mirabela gets that coin back from ANACS he should notify Poe in writing that he is rescinding the transaction and demand a full refund of his money, (probably also entitled to the costs of certifying the blatently over-graded swill). I don't practice in Ohio, but there may be an Ohio Atty who is a member of these boards who may be able to fill in the details of the Ohio Consumer laws. The Ohio Atty General has a complaint form also, so Mirabela may have other remedies.
Just a few late night thoughts - In addition to losing his credibility, publically displaying his deceptive business practices, maybe Mirabela can take the appropriate legal action to make Poe pay for his egregious conduct (Catfish - that means "Conspicuously and outrageously bad or reprehensible" - a rather neat description of the way Poe has acted in the manner he has handed this transaction).
Collecting eye-appealing Proof and MS Indian Head Cents, 1858 Flying Eagle and IHC patterns and beautiful toned coins.
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain Newmismatist
Newmismatist, Could you go back to post #1 and point out the laws broken by mirabela in his side of the email exchange? Oh and I knew what egregious means, Rush and Sean use it all the time on their show.
Member Steamfitters Local 614 USMC Veteran 1981-1992 Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
<< <i>printing a Return policy that is non-existent >>
It is only nonexistant in this transaction, because mirabela failed to request it at auction close. At the risk of sounding repetitive I will repeat how the opportunities were there but not used....
1) There is a "request total from the seller" button at auction end You can request final shipping costs with insurance in the resulting message box after clicking on it.
If you don't insure a purchase from poe on an item that should be it only because you were not intelligent enough to use the system to obtain it.
2) You have the opportunity to edit the final shipping costs on each and every auction you pay for on eBay. If you want insurance you simply add it to the shipping costs.
3) When paying with Paypal paypal also allows manual editing of the final shipping amount AND provides a message block for requesting insurance.
There are 3 opportunities to request and 2 opportunities to pay for insurance on an auction. Note for further clarification express checkout also allows shipping total to be edited.
Also to repeat post from another member ignored twice so far.....
Well if I'm a seller and I get an email asking about a return policy after a coin has been paid for but before it's actually been recieved by the buyer, that to me is a HUGE red flag. This guy may have seen it, feared the worst, then after you confirmed you would be returning the coin after having recieved it, he may think you're pulling a scam. I know I would.
But, it does also look like the seller is pulling a bit of a scam, stipulating returns on insured coins only and then not listing the coin with an insurance option. It would have been easy though for you to alter the payment amount manually to comply with the terms as it was clearly set forth in his auction text. However, you paid, without adding an insurance amount (why would you do that if you knew it would negate your return privelage?) and then asked about a return before even seeing the coin.
Bottom line, I think BOTH of you are being a little less than honest with each other.
Member Steamfitters Local 614 USMC Veteran 1981-1992 Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
Wow....poe, is that the best you can come up with? You are as boring as your deceptive auctions.
catfish...why don't YOU point out the "laws" that you claim mirabela has broken?
None...I looked at post #1 again.....he pointed out he would expose this fraud called poe unless he got back his refund and took the coin back. If he was being illegal, why would he contact ebay/paypal/this forum/the ANA, etc? He has been around long enough to know that if he was the one trying to pull a deceptive fast one that this forum would roast and toast him.
poe is pathetic and so are your attempts to defend him by deflecting blame onto the recipient of crap that was advertised falsely. end of story. Keep it up and just your shilling will be the bids that poe gets
You're wasting time with this thread IMO, as others have mentioned, take this up with the USPS or other appropriate law enforcing entity. The really sad part here is not only did you get duped, but now you are having your nose rubbed in it by the seller so to speak.
Ok, it took me an incredible amount of time to read this through.
Now, I have several comments:
The Masons is a wonderful international organization and commend both Poe and Catfish for being members of such organization. Catfish has every right to defend his friend as he sees fit. He has stated that he would have acted differently than Poe but is defending him anyway.
I do not agree with Catfish or Poe on their defense as follows:
(1) Poe58, with 25 years of collecting experience, should be ashamed for not properly securing the coin into an appropriate 2x2 cardboard holder (at the very least) in which you staple (and crimp) the various ends, and in addition, even stapling the corners as well. The benefits of doing so are fivefold: --------A. It protects the coin from further sliding while in the holder instead of in a 2x4 envelope which cannot be viewed by the buyer without opening the 2x4 pouch. The act of just trying to open the envelope subjects the coin to more sliding action which is fine for well circulated coins but not for a coin supposedly AU or BU. --------B. It prevents a scenario in which every potential buyer is put into a precarious position of being accused of switching. --------C. It prevents buyers from being tempted to switch coins since coins must be returned in their holder intact and unopened. --------D. It gives the seller assurance that the coin has not been mishandled or switched by the buyer when returned for refund. --------E. IT also gives a neutral party the ability to determine which party is in the right upon inspection of the coin in which both parties are assured of a fair and impartial result. Obviously certain rolls and bullion, etc would be non-returnable for obvious reasons.
(2) Mirabella indeed ran the risk of not receiving the coin at all by not insuring such coin. However, such coin was delivered and since such coin was improperly packaged, Poe cannot force Mirabella to forfeit his right to return the coin unless Mirabella failed to notify Poe in a timely manner. Mirabella was timely.
(3) Indeed, if the coin had been damaged in shipment or had been lost then Mirabella would have no recourse, unless he could show that Poe was negligent in some manner in the shipment. The two examples would be failure to insure the package when requested in advance and paid for prior to shipment. This is not the case here. However, in the second example, Poe failed to properly secure and package the coin as explained above which invalidates his claim that the coin is not refundable due to lack of insurance. The failure of the seller's properly securing, proteecting and shipping the coin supersedes the forfeiture of the buyer's right to return the coin.
(4) There are various laws that protect the buyer in the above instance and it would serve Poe quite well to get this behind him as quickly as possible. A refund is the best course of action.
If Poe thinks the coin is worth $170 - why won't he "buy" it back? He's an honest collector of 25 years - right?
My return policy has ALWAYS been - if you don't like it - I DO! Please send it back - I WANT IT IF YOU DON'T. >>
That is exactly how I feel. I don't want to stick anyone with a coin they don't like, and I would like to encourage people to buy from me again. If anyone doesn't like a coin I sell them, I'll take it back and refund their bid plus shipping.
If Poe thinks the coin is worth $170 - why won't he "buy" it back? He's an honest collector of 25 years - right?
My return policy has ALWAYS been - if you don't like it - I DO! Please send it back - I WANT IT IF YOU DON'T. >>
That is exactly how I feel. I don't want to stick anyone with a coin they don't like, and I would like to encourage people to buy from me again. If anyone doesn't like a coin I sell them, I'll take it back and refund their bid plus shipping. >>
You and I are in total agreement on this position, especially concerning coins where the shipping costs are so low. And this has been his position on every coin I have won from him. As I have stated earlier in this thread He once begged me to return a coin I casually mentioned wasn't exactly as I expected. I did not because it wasn't worth the time involved to return it. Besides, my son liked it just fine. I am at a loss as to why this transaction has gone the way it has, other than the totally negative attack on him from the start which <I assume> he took as bullying. If he does do the refund it will be because he made the decision to do so <I truly hope he does> and because he listened to reasonable suggestions and comments without personal attacks or threats included in them such as oreville's post. There are a few others as well but the nasty ones outnumber them greatly and didn't help at all. Tempers on both sides flared uncharacteristically way too early and lead to a 400+ thread on a US Coins forum where an easy 300 were nothing but useless flames.
Member Steamfitters Local 614 USMC Veteran 1981-1992 Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
There are a few others as well but the nasty ones outnumber them greatly and didn't help at all.
The "nasty ones" helped quite a bit -- powerful disinfectants were necessary to cut through the stench of your manure. This thread is about much more than just a single bogus coin transaction.
<< <i>Well Joe, one thing is certain here. You don't stand behind the raw coins you sell. I would suggest taking a look at how active this board is, and reconsider your position. >>
Of ALL the posts in this entirely too long of a thread....this post makes the most sense to me...JMO tho......
Well I have taken the time to consider this board as you have suggested. I have decided that there is no intelligent life here. Well Catfish and all the people who have emailed me with their support are excluded from this comment, but on the whole children playing a childish game. Play nice now! Joe
<< <i>Well I have taken the time to consider this board as you have suggested. I have decided that there is no intelligent life here. Well Catfish and all the people who have emailed me with their support are excluded from this comment, but on the whole children playing a childish game. Play nice now! Joe >>
Yea but there's alot o unintellegent children with lots o money here that ain't gonna be comin your way!!!!!!!!!
Nothing left worth responding. This thread is officially decayed.
Member Steamfitters Local 614 USMC Veteran 1981-1992 Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
Email this morning -- provide PayPal with proof it's been sent back, and they refund in full, w/ S&H. Quite a hassle and $43 the poorer for the education this whole mess was, but ended more efficiently than I had dared expect. Thanks to folks who helped w/ this, esp. Sequitur for hosting photos. Many lessons learned along the way.
I like hearing stories where people don't get screwed (well, Poe may have got screwed since he wouldn't do the right thing from the start and now has a bad rep that he created for himself).
Comments
USMC Veteran 1981-1992
Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
I also love to go through rolls to find coins.
BST
MySlabbedCoins
<< <i>If I were poe58, I would:
1. refund the money including shipping,
2. sell only certified coins on ebay,
3. admit on this thread that I was wrong,
4. and ask for the coin in question back.
OK. This is just my opinion. >>
Most reasonable people would agree to this. What is amazing is that Poe58 in an attempt to stick Mirabela with this coin, is probably costing himself multiples of the purchase price of the coin by showing a lot of potential buyers that he does not stand behind what he sells. He has no concept of customer service and goodwill.
I also love to go through rolls to find coins.
BST
MySlabbedCoins
<< <i>Thank you for your concern coinerww, but this is far less importance to me than you presume! I do like your emblem though. It is a lot better than looking like a monkey! Well if you are bochiman, then you are! >>
Wow! What a quick wit (nitwit that is) you are.
A monkey. and you don't like my coin.
Do you even know what it is? I am sure the darksiders do, and even a lot of the people here.
To keep it coin related, and so you can actually learn something from your foray here....
It is a coin from the Australian Lunar Series. It's a 1oz gold "Year of the Monkey".
The lunar calendar, something that is largely related to asians, is a 12 year cycle. 2004 was the cycle year for the year of the monkey.
I was born in the year of the monkey (not this year though....most people would realize that, but I am not sure you could realize that on your own) so I like using the image. btw....is that your own icon image you use? Please, tell us that it is. We will all know it isn't, but you seem to like to tell people that something is true that isn't.
Anyway, poo58/joeschmoo or whatever.....people HAVE tried to help you with the right things to do (as a human, as a seller, as an ANA member, etc) and you have rebuffed one and all. You refuse to believe things that actually occur (do you think the earth is still flat as well?). I just don't get why some people (re: poo58, catfish, and a few others ....) are so dense as to try to argue a point where they are clearly in the wrong????
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I wonder where Curly Joe is?
I also love to go through rolls to find coins.
BST
MySlabbedCoins
<< <i>See catfish I told you we could make it break 400 tonight! Thanks to Larry, Curly, and Moe! >>
I hope I can be Moe or Larry
Yeah..the thread had no problem breaking 400...just needed your catfish to come back on for awhile and start shilling for you here now
He shows up, shills and posts, then "leaves" and you show up.....hmmmmmmmm
I doubt you are the same person, but I still think maybe you cohabitate and use the same connection (as well as toothbrushes in the morning
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I sell very seldom on ebay. So I have the same question, you are back to claiming he switched the coins even though your picture matches the picture of the coin he received and that it would have been far easier for him to claim he never received the coin?
With so many "power sellers" on ebay, I find that claim to be ludicrous.
(I can't believe this thread is still going!)
Looking for PCGS AU58 Washington's, 32-63.
I also love to go through rolls to find coins.
BST
MySlabbedCoins
I will give catfish credit for one thing - he has remained civil, but that doesn't change the fact that his "defense" of Poe is for the most part baseless and at times even spurious (Catfish- that means false, or or a false nature).
I think Catfish & Poe are alter egos of each other, with Catfish the more literate half, and perhaps the more intelligent of this dynamic duo.
Mirabela should be aware that Ohio has a Consumer Protection law. It's called the Consumer Sales Practices Act. RC 1345.21-1345.28 - I believe it makes deceptive sales practices unlawful.
Here's the pertinant section:
§ 1345.02. Unfair or deceptive consumer sales practices prohibited.
(A) No supplier shall commit an unfair or deceptive act or practice in connection with a consumer transaction. Such an unfair or deceptive act or practice by a supplier violates this section whether it occurs before, during, or after the transaction.
(B) Without limiting the scope of division (A) of this section, the act or practice of a supplier in representing any of the following is deceptive:
(1) That the subject of a consumer transaction has sponsorship, approval, performance characteristics, accessories, uses, or benefits that it does not have;
(2) That the subject of a consumer transaction is of a particular standard, quality, grade, style, prescription, or model, if it is not;
(3) That the subject of a consumer transaction is new, or unused, if it is not;
(4) That the subject of a consumer transaction is available to the consumer for a reason that does not exist;
(5) That the subject of a consumer transaction has been supplied in accordance with a previous representation, if it has not, except that the act of a supplier in furnishing similar merchandise of equal or greater value as a good faith substitute does not violate this section;
Looks like Poe has violated 1-4. Mirabela has a private remedy and if a curt were to find the Poe Intentionally violated the act Mirabela could recover attorney fees in addition to his damages.
§ 1345.09. Private remedies.
For a violation of Chapter 1345. of the Revised Code, a consumer has a cause of action and is entitled to relief as follows:
(A) Where the violation was an act prohibited by section 1345.02 or 1345.03 of the Revised Code, the consumer may, in an individual action, rescind the transaction or recover his damages.
(B) Where the violation was an act or practice declared to be deceptive or unconscionable by rule adopted under division (B)(2) of section 1345.05 of the Revised Code before the consumer transaction on which the action is based, or an act or practice determined by a court of this state to violate section 1345.02 or 1345.03 of the Revised Code and committed after the decision containing the determination has been made available for public inspection under division (A)(3) of section 1345.05 of the Revised Code, the consumer may rescind the transaction or recover, but not in a class action, three times the amount of his actual damages or two hundred dollars, whichever is greater, or recover damages or other appropriate relief in a class action under Civil Rule 23, as amended.
(C) In any action for rescission, revocation of the consumer transaction must occur within a reasonable time after the consumer discovers or should have discovered the ground for it and before any substantial change in condition of the subject of the consumer transaction.
(D) Any consumer may seek a declaratory judgment, an injunction, or other appropriate relief against an act or practice that violates this chapter.
(E) When a consumer commences an individual action for a declaratory judgment or an injunction or a class action under this section, the clerk of court shall immediately mail a copy of the complaint to the attorney general. Upon timely application, the attorney general may be permitted to intervene in any private action or appeal pending under this section. When a judgment under this section becomes final, the clerk of court shall mail a copy of the judgment including supporting opinions to the attorney general for inclusion in the public file maintained under division (A)(3) of section 1345.05 of the Revised Code.
(F) The court may award to the prevailing party a reasonable attorney's fee limited to the work reasonably performed, if either of the following apply:
(1) The consumer complaining of the act or practice that violated this chapter has brought or maintained an action that is groundless, and the consumer filed or maintained the action in bad faith;
(2) The supplier has knowingly committed an act or practice that violates this chapter.
So As soon as Mirabela gets that coin back from ANACS he should notify Poe in writing that he is rescinding the transaction and demand a full refund of his money, (probably also entitled to the costs of certifying the blatently over-graded swill). I don't practice in Ohio, but there may be an Ohio Atty who is a member of these boards who may be able to fill in the details of the Ohio Consumer laws. The Ohio Atty General has a complaint form also, so Mirabela may have other remedies.
Just a few late night thoughts - In addition to losing his credibility, publically displaying his deceptive business practices, maybe Mirabela can take the appropriate legal action to make Poe pay for his egregious conduct (Catfish - that means "Conspicuously and outrageously bad
or reprehensible" - a rather neat description of the way Poe has acted in the manner he has handed this transaction).
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain
Newmismatist
USMC Veteran 1981-1992
Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
<< <i>printing a Return policy that is non-existent >>
It is only nonexistant in this transaction, because mirabela failed to request it at auction close. At the risk of sounding repetitive I will repeat how the opportunities were there but not used....
1) There is a "request total from the seller" button at auction end You can request final shipping costs with insurance in the resulting message box after clicking on it.
If you don't insure a purchase from poe on an item that should be it only because you were not intelligent enough to use the system to obtain it.
2) You have the opportunity to edit the final shipping costs on each and every auction you pay for on eBay. If you want insurance you simply add it to the shipping costs.
3) When paying with Paypal paypal also allows manual editing of the final shipping amount AND provides a message block for requesting insurance.
There are 3 opportunities to request and 2 opportunities to pay for insurance on an auction. Note for further clarification express checkout also allows shipping total to be edited.
Also to repeat post from another member ignored twice so far.....
Well if I'm a seller and I get an email asking about a return policy after a coin has been paid for but before it's actually been recieved by the buyer, that to me is a HUGE red flag. This guy may have seen it, feared the worst, then after you confirmed you would be returning the coin after having recieved it, he may think you're pulling a scam. I know I would.
But, it does also look like the seller is pulling a bit of a scam, stipulating returns on insured coins only and then not listing the coin with an insurance option. It would have been easy though for you to alter the payment amount manually to comply with the terms as it was clearly set forth in his auction text. However, you paid, without adding an insurance amount (why would you do that if you knew it would negate your return privelage?) and then asked about a return before even seeing the coin.
Bottom line, I think BOTH of you are being a little less than honest with each other.
USMC Veteran 1981-1992
Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
You are as boring as your deceptive auctions.
catfish...why don't YOU point out the "laws" that you claim mirabela has broken?
None...I looked at post #1 again.....he pointed out he would expose this fraud called poe unless he got back his refund and took the coin back.
If he was being illegal, why would he contact ebay/paypal/this forum/the ANA, etc?
He has been around long enough to know that if he was the one trying to pull a deceptive fast one that this forum would roast and toast him.
poe is pathetic and so are your attempts to defend him by deflecting blame onto the recipient of crap that was advertised falsely. end of story.
Keep it up and just your shilling will be the bids that poe gets
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
You're wasting time with this thread IMO, as others have mentioned, take this up with the USPS or other appropriate law enforcing entity. The really sad part here is not only did you get duped, but now you are having your nose rubbed in it by the seller so to speak.
dragon
Now, I have several comments:
The Masons is a wonderful international organization and commend both Poe and Catfish for being members of such organization.
Catfish has every right to defend his friend as he sees fit. He has stated that he would have acted differently than Poe but is defending him anyway.
I do not agree with Catfish or Poe on their defense as follows:
(1) Poe58, with 25 years of collecting experience, should be ashamed for not properly securing the coin into an appropriate 2x2 cardboard holder (at the very least) in which you staple (and crimp) the various ends, and in addition, even stapling the corners as well. The benefits of doing so are fivefold:
--------A. It protects the coin from further sliding while in the holder instead of in a 2x4 envelope which cannot be viewed by the buyer without opening the 2x4 pouch. The act of just trying to open the envelope subjects the coin to more sliding action which is fine for well circulated coins but not for a coin supposedly AU or BU.
--------B. It prevents a scenario in which every potential buyer is put into a precarious position of being accused of switching.
--------C. It prevents buyers from being tempted to switch coins since coins must be returned in their holder intact and unopened.
--------D. It gives the seller assurance that the coin has not been mishandled or switched by the buyer when returned for refund.
--------E. IT also gives a neutral party the ability to determine which party is in the right upon inspection of the coin in which both parties are assured of a fair and impartial result.
Obviously certain rolls and bullion, etc would be non-returnable for obvious reasons.
(2) Mirabella indeed ran the risk of not receiving the coin at all by not insuring such coin. However, such coin was delivered and since such coin was improperly packaged, Poe cannot force Mirabella to forfeit his right to return the coin unless Mirabella failed to notify Poe in a timely manner. Mirabella was timely.
(3) Indeed, if the coin had been damaged in shipment or had been lost then Mirabella would have no recourse, unless he could show that Poe was negligent in some manner in the shipment. The two examples would be failure to insure the package when requested in advance and paid for prior to shipment. This is not the case here. However, in the second example, Poe failed to properly secure and package the coin as explained above which invalidates his claim that the coin is not refundable due to lack of insurance. The failure of the seller's properly securing, proteecting and shipping the coin supersedes the forfeiture of the buyer's right to return the coin.
(4) There are various laws that protect the buyer in the above instance and it would serve Poe quite well to get this behind him as quickly as possible. A refund is the best course of action.
(5) There is much more but my head already hurts!
Best of luck to both Poe and Mirabella.
I sure have enjoyed reading this ENTIRE thread.
If Poe thinks the coin is worth $170 - why won't he "buy" it back? He's an honest collector of 25 years - right?
My return policy has ALWAYS been - if you don't like it - I DO! Please send it back - I WANT IT IF YOU DON'T.
C'mon Poe...send the kid his money back and go sell some more coins.
My Auctions
<< <i>Gee...
I sure have enjoyed reading this ENTIRE thread.
If Poe thinks the coin is worth $170 - why won't he "buy" it back? He's an honest collector of 25 years - right?
My return policy has ALWAYS been - if you don't like it - I DO! Please send it back - I WANT IT IF YOU DON'T. >>
That is exactly how I feel. I don't want to stick anyone with a coin they don't like, and I would like to encourage people to buy from me again. If anyone doesn't like a coin I sell them, I'll take it back and refund their bid plus shipping.
<< <i>
<< <i>Gee...
I sure have enjoyed reading this ENTIRE thread.
If Poe thinks the coin is worth $170 - why won't he "buy" it back? He's an honest collector of 25 years - right?
My return policy has ALWAYS been - if you don't like it - I DO! Please send it back - I WANT IT IF YOU DON'T. >>
That is exactly how I feel. I don't want to stick anyone with a coin they don't like, and I would like to encourage people to buy from me again. If anyone doesn't like a coin I sell them, I'll take it back and refund their bid plus shipping. >>
You and I are in total agreement on this position, especially concerning coins where the shipping costs are so low. And this has been his position on every coin I have won from him. As I have stated earlier in this thread He once begged me to return a coin I casually mentioned wasn't exactly as I expected. I did not because it wasn't worth the time involved to return it. Besides, my son liked it just fine. I am at a loss as to why this transaction has gone the way it has, other than the totally negative attack on him from the start which <I assume> he took as bullying. If he does do the refund it will be because he made the decision to do so <I truly hope he does> and because he listened to reasonable suggestions and comments without personal attacks or threats included in them such as oreville's post. There are a few others as well but the nasty ones outnumber them greatly and didn't help at all. Tempers on both sides flared uncharacteristically way too early and lead to a 400+ thread on a US Coins forum where an easy 300 were nothing but useless flames.
USMC Veteran 1981-1992
Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
The "nasty ones" helped quite a bit -- powerful disinfectants were necessary to cut through the stench of your manure. This thread is about much more than just a single bogus coin transaction.
<< <i>Well Joe, one thing is certain here. You don't stand behind the raw coins you sell. I would suggest taking a look at how active this board is, and reconsider your position. >>
Of ALL the posts in this entirely too long of a thread....this post makes the most sense to me...JMO tho......
Play nice now!
Joe
<< <i>Well Catfish and all the people who have emailed me with their support >>
"All" the people who have eMailed you with their "support"? Bwuahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!! Name one besides your boy catfish!
BTW, switch to a different forum avatar, you puke. I don't want one of mine used by a slimeball.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Well I have taken the time to consider this board as you have suggested. I have decided that there is no intelligent life here. Well Catfish and all the people who have emailed me with their support are excluded from this comment, but on the whole children playing a childish game.
Play nice now!
Joe >>
Yea but there's alot o unintellegent children with lots o money here that ain't gonna be comin your way!!!!!!!!!
Germany gave up WWII easier than this fiasco !
<< <i>OMG !
Germany gave up WWII easier than this fiasco ! >>
Look who's talking.
Russ, NCNE
i been a good citizen lately !
<< <i>Russ,
i been a good citizen lately ! >>
Yes you have, and we're all very proud.
<< <i>Speaking of Campfire Sing-Alongs, It's The Ballad of Poedunk And Flipper! >>
Love the new title.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Poedunk >>
I kinda prefer Poess!
Kum ba yah, my lord, Kum ba yah!
Kum ba yah, my lord, Kum ba yah!
Kum ba yah, my lord, Kum ba yah.
O Lord, Kum ba yah
Someone's crying, Lord, Kum ba yah!
Someone's crying, Lord, Kum ba yah!
Someone's crying, Lord, Kum ba yah!
O Lord, Kum ba yah
Someone's singing, Lord, Kum ba yah!
Someone's singing, Lord, Kum ba yah!
Someone's singing, Lord, Kum ba yah!
O Lord, Kum ba yah
Someone's praying, Lord, Kum ba yah!
Someone's praying, Lord, Kum ba yah!
Someone's praying, Lord, Kum ba yah!
O Lord, Kum ba yah
USMC Veteran 1981-1992
Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
Poe, enjoy your coin.
Russ, NCNE
I like hearing stories where people don't get screwed (well, Poe may have got screwed since he wouldn't do the right thing from the start and now has a bad rep that he created for himself).
Congrats Mirabela!
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Wonder if he will sell it in the ANACS slab, or if he will break it out and call is MS60 again?