Boy, a lot has happened here since yesterday. Last bit I'll say about this -- In the first place, I bid on the coin around four days before the auction closed. I made a mental note of the screwy return policy and went about my business. The auction closed. I paid for the coin (yes, we know, a mistake to do so) but as stated in the emails, the insurance thing wasn't offered. While I ordinarily insure anything worth more than $50 or so, it wasn't offered so I didn't think about it too hard just then -- as I never bid on *anything* w/o some sort of return policy, I basically forgot for a moment that this was the one. This was 7/28, pretty late at night, possibly into the morning of 7/29. I sent the message inquiring about return policy the next day as I was reviewing the listings of a few auctions I'd bid on, waiting for the things I'd bought to come -- before ever receiving the message regarding shipping, although it was sent. I sent the message when I did exactly to avoid some sort of BS situation like the one that has unfolded, but there you go. Anyway, the coin is a junkheap. It looks like it was scrubbed with a brillo pad. A witness, non-family member, was present when I opened it and can attest (notarize a statement, if necessary) that the coin in my scan was the one that came out of poe58's package.
Bottom line is, the coin is no good and poe58 knows it, and that's why he doesn't want it back. He can sign up any number of brand new "members" to go to bat for him (will they all spell as poorly as he does?) but a scam is a scam is a scam, and now at least a few hundred more people know about this one. 'Nuff said. I spent the day canoeing and not thinking about this, and I felt frankly better that way. Goodnight. I'll begin legal proceedings in the morning.
Matt, he's here making a fool of himself. I would milk it for all it's worth, and keep up the pressure until he accepts a return. It's quite obvious to me this guy sells junk and won't stand behind his coins.
Well, OK, I said I'd go to bed but -- hey, if he keeps posting, or inventing new identities to post under, at least he'll keep the thread at the top of the heap.
OK Matt You are a clown. You and I both know I have not sent you an email since I added you to the bloked bidders list! There is no further need to justify your childishness. Regards Joe!
Yo Poe......you should never have cut your ear off because you are having trouble hearing what is going on here. Your policy on returns is foolish at best, a scam at worst. You had a chance to make it right but you've shown your true colors. You have now been outed to thousands of collectors, not just the board members but all who lurk without joining. Good luck with your continued success.
I disagree. 75 percent of the raw Washington's in my raw set came from ebay, and there were only one or two that I wasn't happy with. I've even been pleasantly surprised by the quality of a few. I've got a 37D that was sold as an XF, but will probably grade AU58 if I sent it in to graded.
It is my honest opinion that you have intended from the start to swap items.
It's amazing how many times I've seen that in one of these discussions from the dealer being accused.
The seller is, in effect, claiming that (either before or after the Ebay transaction took place) the buyer got a different coin/example of the same date, that looks the same and has a rim problem in the same place, in order to switch coins and thereby profit from the difference in value between the two.
I don't think I'm buying that (pun intended) argument !
Let's face it, regardless of the terms of sale and all the other side issues, it would be pretty darned easy to verify whether the coin is the same or not. But, the seller seems to have zero interest in doing so or in standing behind the coin/item he sold.
The seller saved himself whatever he might have been out (in the short run) by allowing the return and re-selling the item. He potentially cost himself far more (in the long run).
<< <i>The seller saved himself whatever he might have been out (in the short run) by allowing the return and re-selling the item. He potentially cost himself far more (in the long run). >>
Unfortunately Mark, this seller doesn't appear to be able to comprehend that analysis.
How clever, you guys are. Mirabela, I am an individual and I am in Mississippi, not Ohio so I can't be a fake identity, my IP is static and logged. I was not solicited by poe58 to join either. It is clear from your own evidence that you attempted a swap. When it didn't work you brought it here to get reputable people to try and help you advance it. BTW, I use the same identity on eBay look me up if you like. Your feedback is nowhere near what mine or the seller you are attempting to bring down with your lies is.
If you look back far enough you'll see a double negative posted on my feedback from a "shady" seller who slammed me when he sent me a box of trash. What's worse? Paypal sided with him. Here 2 of you <which may be the same person and different identities> claim to have been attacked by a virus. That's another ploy used by scammers who get busted, they further their attempts to defame. Interestingly, if the lawsuit linked to in this thread holds up. It will set a precedent whereby all who posted in the negative towards poe58 could be subject to suit in the exact same fashion.
It's really neat that none of you expected to get answered by poe58 in this forum, or some of the posts obviously would not have been made. To bring back terms from the fidonet days, Troll, Lurker and driveby come to mind.
Bottom line the scans posted by Mirabela and the eBay scans are two different coins, one need only to open up 3 browser windows and line them up to see that. Notary public stamps aren't worth the paper they are stamped on, they do not hold up in court <stung by that one myself>. Mirabela, I think you have brought shame to yourself and the "friends" you have drug into your poor attempt to con a fair reputable seller on eBay.
Another thing that is interesting, it appears most of the members who sided with Mirabela don't appear to "buy" regularly from eBay they just complain about eBay.
Return Policies: Auctions are not required to have them on eBay. Those that do carry them MUST be read THOROUGHLY. If there are stipulations you don't like, don't complain and whine simply DON'T BID! I am sure each seller has his own reasons for the return policies they carry. God bless them. If I want the item I bid and conform. If their policy is not to my liking and I bid and win, I pay wait for the item, inspect it on receiving, like it or not I leave a positive feedback if the seller properly fulfilled his portion of the contract. I don't go whining all over the internet because so an so seller hurt my feelings. I certainly don't send threatening emails. I act like a grown up, take my toys and look for another auction.
If you don't like poe58's return policies you surely wouldn't like mine. Due to many buyers like Mirabela, I only sale AS IS on eBay. 25% of the auctions I have sold have been met with requests for "partial refunds" I had to add that I don't do partial refunds in my auctions as well to stop that. I don't make many high dollar sales, but I move the merchandise and the buyer if he can read english knows what my policy is. If you win a bid on eBay you are bound to the auction as it IS a contract. The contract in question here had a stated "no return without insurance policy" You had the ability to add the payment for insurance in the shipping portion of the PayPal invoice as well as a 500 character message box that could have been used to request said insurance. You did not do so. poe58 fulfilled his portion of the contract and you are now trying to renig, exchange different merchandise and clearly defame poe58 for your own poor or rather lack of judgement.
Member Steamfitters Local 614 USMC Veteran 1981-1992 Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
It is clear from your own evidence that you attempted a swap. Yeah right. I have a bridge here in San Diego i'd like to sell you. If you are interested please fell free to PM me.
Poe58--it's clear that it's the same coin--I for one won't deal with you in the future if this isn' t resolved reasonably--I think you should back off and give a refund--It's not like we're talking about a lot of money--what $170+ not a lot for the members of this forum. Gut up and do the right thing!
Another thing that is interesting, it appears most of the members who sided with Mirabela don't appear to "buy" regularly from eBay they just complain about eBay.
Text I nominate Poe58 for the Official PCGS Forum Ebayers to Avoid List. I will add him to the list, pending objection.
What little my 3 post count counts, I object. It is my opinion based on mirabela's evidence that mirabela is in the wrong. Frankly, I would have refunded him just to shut him up. Apparently, poe58 is much more stubborn than I. Frankly after the correspondance from mirabela I might have become just as stubborn. mirabela's approach, gives the impression that he is indeed dishonest and throwing hammers at flies to further his dishonesty.
Forgive the typo's I use Linux and sometimes, I'm faster than the keyboard can handle.
Member Steamfitters Local 614 USMC Veteran 1981-1992 Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
It's really neat that none of you expected to get answered by poe58 in this forum, or some of the posts obviously would not have been made. To bring back terms from the fidonet days, Troll, Lurker and driveby come to mind.
I post here all the time and my opinions are always intended.
Another thing that is interesting, it appears most of the members who sided with Mirabela don't appear to "buy" regularly from eBay they just complain about eBay.
I buy from ebay all the time.
Bottom line the scans posted by Mirabela and the eBay scans are two different coins, one need only to open up 3 browser windows and line them up to see that.
Interesting that they both have the same little ding below the letter D in Dollar.
It takes someone of some IT skill to use Linux and to send a virus. Even though that virus is Wintel-based, I would not be surprised to learn that Catfish and Poe are one and the same.
Hello Matt From your own feedback! Since he isn't here to defend himself I deleted the ebay Id. If you want to find out just check Matt's feedbaack!
AN ECCENTRIC BUYER/SELLER that tried to bully refund-NEEDS TO GROW UP-Real Sad ! Seller XXXX( 592) Mar-17-04 16:08 2227464795 Reply by banjospitnwhittle: Coin was cleaned, refused refund, offered only 36% credit! Unethical seller. Mar-17-04 18:20
Hello Bill Boat I am fully retired and I assure you $170 is not a lot of money to me. The money is far from important. I just don't like thiefs and or cry babies like. Matt
Come off it, if you're not the seller, you're a buddy of his.
Not a buddy persay, But I have purchased more than 8 coins from him without a problem. On one occasion, I mentioned in passing in an email that a coin "was not exactly what I expected" and he begged me to send it back. I won it at what I felt a real good price and replied in the negative to returning it. Just like in mirabelas first post every email I have ever sent has been replied to promptly. If I didn't like his return policy I surely wouldn't bid, but hey insurance in my opinion is a bonus, if it is damaged, the insurance claim will pay the shipping costs as well.
If the PGCS sees fit to blacklist him, I think it would really be a loss to them not poe58 as all of the merchandise he carries "I feel" he honestly describes them to the best of his ability, If I didn't feel that way I would not have ever bid on any of his auctions.
Oh and Bikingnut, Thank You for your service to our country.
Member Steamfitters Local 614 USMC Veteran 1981-1992 Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
Poe58, you aren't unique, that's all this means. That guy sent a cleaned mess of a Barber dime, wouldn't refund although the auction didn't state the coin had been cleaned, and viewed a few emails & pursuit of a dispute resolution through ebay as "bullying." I'm an honest buyer & seller. Since you're in a homework mood, you can really dig and find where I sold this cleaned dime I'd bought for $44 for $8 or so, stating clearly that it wasn't original. You can, for that matter, find the three Pilgrim halves, the Seated dollar, and a number of other cleaned coins I've honestly sold as such. It's all happened since February, so it should all be there. Maybe they've been bought by folks who'll try to turn them around at original prices... If I were the sort of person you make me out to be, I suppose I'd have just sold them as 'original BU' and taken the money...
Poe58, you (conveniently) keep avoiding the issue as to whether, as you claim, there are two different coins involved or not. I repeat, it would be quite easy to verify, if you care to chance it.
He won't do it Mark. I've run across sellers like him before. He will avoid the issue, and continue accusing Matt of being the scammer. The bottom line is he sells misrepresented coins and he knows it. Matt needs to file a complaint with PayPal using the "significantly not as described" selection. He should also file a fraud report with eBay for the same thing. This seller listed a "mint state" coin with no note of any problems such as cleaning, and that is not what the buyer got.
It takes someone of some IT skill to use Linux and to send a virus. Even though that virus is Wintel-based, I would not be surprised to learn that Catfish and Poe are one and the same.
Apparently, you didn't see my sig.
I don't know many pipefitter Journeymen that are in IT. Do you? I use linux because it is actually easier to use on the net than that Bill Gates Stuff. I don't send virii nor do I accept them :^}
Your accusation is false I assure you.
My IP is bellsouth.net Poe's is on charter cable. In this part of Mississippi cable is Time-Warner.
Member Steamfitters Local 614 USMC Veteran 1981-1992 Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
You can, for that matter, find the three Pilgrim halves, the Seated dollar, and a number of other cleaned coins I've honestly sold as such.
Hmm, now we're getting somewhere. Mirabela has acknowledged he holds cleaned coins. Now, he just needs to admit he tried to swap one to poe58 in this transaction.
Member Steamfitters Local 614 USMC Veteran 1981-1992 Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
Poe- I see absolutely no evidence that mirabela is trying to swap coins. This is the basis for refusing the refund, correct? In that case, whether or not the coin was insured while being shipped to the buyer would have absolutely no bearing on whether or not the same, or a different coin is returned to you. They are simply two completely seperate issues. Do you think that if mirabela had insured the shipment, that you would be somehow guaranteed to have the same coin returned? Nonsense! Mirabela was not trying to renegotiate the terms of your auction- to the contrary, he was going above and beyond to try and comply with your terms by offering to pay for insurance. I don't see where this constitutes attempted fraud or renegotiation. I also don't see grounds for the accusation of blackmail either. Mirabela laid out the steps he would take if an agreeable resolution could not be met. He was not endangering your life, liberty, or property by telling you his plan of action. If you mean blackmail as far as negative feedback is concerned, then you also have no complaint- because he didn't leave you any negative feedback. Can't say the same for you. The way I see it is that you have been paid fully for the transaction- as far as you are concerned, there was nothing to give mirabela a negative rating for.
If you intend to continue to do business on Ebay with the current terms you have laid out and strictly adhere to, then may I suggest adding to your terms an indication that additional steps are required to include insurance for your auctions. You could simply state:
"Due to the complexities of the turbolisting feature that I use for my auctions, I am unable to offer insurance in the checkout portion of the transaction. To comply with my return policy, please manually add the appropriate amount for insurance costs to your total before sending payment."
Two sentences that could save a lot of time and hassle, in my opinion. You may coinsider this to be extraneous, but in my mind this would clarify the situation and show the buyer that you have every intention of honoring your policies, and have laid out every step necessary to comply with your terms. Then the buyer would have absolutely no excuse for not complying with the insurance portion of your terms, which guarantee only that the package itelf will be covered going from you to the buyer. It does not guarantee that coins returned to you will be the same coins you shipped out. If you were concerned about this issue, then seal your holders with an adhesive label with your signature or initials on it. If the seal is broken, then the return policy is voided. If the seal is intact with your signature, then you know that the coin you have in your hand is the one that you sent. Adhesive labels and a pen are much cheaper than legal fees and the headaches involved in arguing about this.
If you take both of these suggestions, I would say that you would probably never see a situation like this arise again, which I believe would benefit both parties involved here.
What is it currently? People screwing each other, no kissing involved, and then having such spitting matches?
Poe.....let's put it bluntly....as a seller, you suck! If you are as "honest" as you profess.....offer the refunds. And, don't use "turbolister" or whatever as an excuse. Go back and edit your auctions to include insurance if wanted. Otherwise, you are purposely adding more hoops for people to jump through and then using that as a claim to not refund. Even if someone may have sided with you at the start, I am suprised if anyone sides with you now after your posts. Obviously catfish does, but, then, he uses linux and that is obviously evident of mental problems in itself
Catfish...you seem to have sided on this awful quickly and seem to want to try to attack mirabela.......whether or not you are the seller in another ID, or a friend/co-conspirator, or whatever, you are tossing out accusations, or hidden accusations at someone that you would hold no interest in if you were just " a bystander". If you sell on ebay, then just block mirabela and that should make you happy if you don't trust him.
Between the 2 of them (and, before this thread, I wouldn't know a "mirabela" from a "poe58"), I would NOT buy from poe58 but I would sell to mirabela. You think that means something? You think maybe people can read, and read between the lines, to see who is more trustworthy?
btw.....you should read what buffnut just wrote.....very well written and something that any HONEST and intelligent person should/would do.
What a jamoke and con artist this Poedunk is. This joker has 25 years in the hobby, is an ANA member, and seems to claim he knows something. Yet this seated quarter is obviously a cleaned pos. His next listing is a 1927 quarter than he calls (in his humble 25 yr opinion) FULL HEAD with FULL LUSTER and worth $415. This pos is so obviously cleaned and the head is 50% FLAT. This leopard has obvious spots. Steer clear of this F- ebayer. I don't need to look at any more of his offerings. And he still retains 100% feedback. Amazing. Sorry for you Mirabella that your FB went in as positive. Maybe several of us can "win" one of his auctions and post neg FB for the man. As a minimum we should inform high bidders of the crap they are about to receive. Yes, in the long run, old poedunk will not benefit from this transaction.
You would think that after 25 years in this hobby one would learn how to spot mint luster and strike details. Sad that Poe has not learned the basics. Let's all shed a crocodile tear for the man.
Now, he just needs to admit he tried to swap one to poe58 in this transaction.
As I stated earlier, it is amazing how many times I've seen this accusation in discussions on this topic. (When the seller is called on misrepresented items)
Catfish...you seem to have sided on this awful quickly and seem to want to try to attack mirabela.......whether or not you are the seller in another ID, or a friend/co-conspirator, or whatever, you are tossing out accusations, or hidden accusations at someone that you would hold no interest in if you were just " a bystander". If you sell on ebay, then just block mirabela and that should make you happy if you don't trust him.
How fast did everyone side with mirabela? I merely maintain that the scans he offered as "evidence" do not appear to be the same coin as the one listed on eBay.
If you read all of my posts carefully you would see where I differ in opinion from poe58. "I would have refunded him just to shut him up" OF course, I'd do so knowing that mirabela <based on his offered scans {more to it in his scan than just the one alledged nick folks}> would be sending me a different coin.
On the linux comment..... maybe I should add to my sig <Beware, I use linux, I may be smarter than my posts appear> LOL
I've also formed the opinion K6AZ and mirabela are either clones or are married.
Member Steamfitters Local 614 USMC Veteran 1981-1992 Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
No catfish..you initially put a little into it with "I would have refunded him to shut him up" but you also went to defending the seller. I could careless at the moment as I am not ripped off nor am I ripping anyone off, but yours was a slanted "differing in opinion". Not worth the price of admission
I haven't looked at the scans, nor care to. Seems that the rim ding is there though, from what trustworthy and knowledgable people have said. If you camp out on the board long enough, you will learn who the grumpy people are as well as the grumpy but well respected no BS type of people. And, you will also learn who the other smart ones are.
Then, you will also see a revolving door of sellers who come to defend themselves and watch as they shoot themselves in the foot. You will also see people defend others, are proven wrong, and won't admit it. You will see people attack and drive new people away and then be proven wrong as well....and few will admit their wrongs in that.
But, you seem to be quite argumentative. And, kind of preposterous calling K6AZ and mirabela the same person (clones/married). They each have their own personality (at least, Eric does...I know that much having seen a lot of his posts ) If you are intelligent at all, you will have to admit your "arrival post" and the slant of your posts do seem to mirror the other new poster (the seller) to this thread. Quite a coincidence. Especially when a newbie just jumps in and argues so much in 1 thread right away.
Ah well, have fun.
As for the linux thing....well, again, that actually does explain a lot to me.....a lot of people that are so proud to run linux are quite arrogant and slanted in their beliefs...and seem to believe that they are always right and any differing opinion is wrong. No little laughing icons on that one.
Hey Poe58--I'm fully retired also==an old fart and I must assure you--there is nothing like being respected by your peers--just look at the response this thread has gotten--would you rather be known as a seller that stands by his product or one that says "he didn't buy insurance (which I couldn't offer because my host gave me problems) so I won't honor his return. It's not worth it. Do the right thing!! This is my last post on this thread because its gotten a tad boring--which goes for the buyer as well--the pictures sucked, looked cleaned and why did you buy? Never buy a coin on Ebay that you don't feel comfortable with!!
Once again--$170 is not worth the harm you have done to your future auctions!
Maybe several of us can "win" one of his auctions and post neg FB for the man. As a minimum we should inform high bidders of the crap they are about to receive. Yes, in the long run, old poedunk will not benefit from this transaction.
A coordinated Feedback attack is easily removed from eBay read their Terms of Service. You have already provided evidence if an attempt occcurs. That was especially nice of you alerting poe58 that way.
Member Steamfitters Local 614 USMC Veteran 1981-1992 Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
I have placed in my posts that I have purchased from poe58. Not hard to figure that out one need only look at his feedback and find my moniker there. Just following the chain of evidence that mirabela provided and my own past experiences with poe58 as a seller on eBay. I definitely side with poe58. Mirabela in his own postings provided me with that. He posted this thread merely to smear poe58. It appears in no way to be posted as an "alert" to other members. An Alert would be "I had a bad experience with poe58 and I would not buy from him again."
I am discredited automagically because I sided with an "eBay Seller" in a thread that was clearly meant solely to defame and discredit him. I am anxious to see how the "legal proceedings" go. I do not believe mirabela has a case. His scans are almost completly different from the eBay posted ones "dings" aside.
Is this a credible discussion board or is this merely a place to "BASH" eBay Sellers? In this thread, a place to bash a seller when a swap was headed off by a buyers own scans? Reading the emails in reverse order as suggested by mirabela puts this in perspective. Shipping via USPS on Paypal completed <Seller thinks well that's done> email arrives asking to 4x pay for insurance <Seller thinks, uh oh here comes a scam> Seller responds sorry already shipped Buyer receives coin sends email with scans <not what he thought> <seller thinks yep I'm being scammed that's not my coin!> Responds sorry no can refund <Seller thinks oh man here it comes> Buyer sends email with demands <Seller thinks, yep, it's a typical hardball response from a scammer> Responds with opinion that buyer was attempting scam. {mistake in my opinion} I would have just denied the refund based on a clearly stated refund policy. Buyer sends email with threats and feedback extortion <buyer thinks absolutly a scam>
Of course everyone was quick to jump on mirabela's side because he posted first and everyone pities him. Heck, I pity him. I wonder why there was only one other attempt besides me to view from the sellers side. Clearly a prejudice was shown in favor of mirabela even though mirabela made a mistake from the start. He should never have bid on the auction in the first place if he had an "odd" feeling about the return policy. poe58 made no mistake mirabela did in bidding on an auction if he had the least reservation about it.
Member Steamfitters Local 614 USMC Veteran 1981-1992 Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
I see only a buch of little boys crying in the night!
All I see is a whole lot of coin buyers scratching off another ebay seller from their "where I spend money" list..... Even if the buyer is to blame here, you're not doing yourself any favors with the way this is being handled....
My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable !
Comments
In the first place, I bid on the coin around four days before the auction closed. I made a mental note of the screwy return policy and went about my business. The auction closed. I paid for the coin (yes, we know, a mistake to do so) but as stated in the emails, the insurance thing wasn't offered. While I ordinarily insure anything worth more than $50 or so, it wasn't offered so I didn't think about it too hard just then -- as I never bid on *anything* w/o some sort of return policy, I basically forgot for a moment that this was the one. This was 7/28, pretty late at night, possibly into the morning of 7/29. I sent the message inquiring about return policy the next day as I was reviewing the listings of a few auctions I'd bid on, waiting for the things I'd bought to come -- before ever receiving the message regarding shipping, although it was sent. I sent the message when I did exactly to avoid some sort of BS situation like the one that has unfolded, but there you go. Anyway, the coin is a junkheap. It looks like it was scrubbed with a brillo pad. A witness, non-family member, was present when I opened it and can attest (notarize a statement, if necessary) that the coin in my scan was the one that came out of poe58's package.
Bottom line is, the coin is no good and poe58 knows it, and that's why he doesn't want it back. He can sign up any number of brand new "members" to go to bat for him (will they all spell as poorly as he does?) but a scam is a scam is a scam, and now at least a few hundred more people know about this one. 'Nuff said. I spent the day canoeing and not thinking about this, and I felt frankly better that way. Goodnight. I'll begin legal proceedings in the morning.
I got an email from him, but all it had in it was the "W32beagle" virus. How fortunate I got Norton back up and running last month. What a jerk...
Looking for PCGS AU58 Washington's, 32-63.
<< <i>I'll second that nomination!
Thirded. While he's been mostly a seller, I've also blocked him as a bidder.
<< <i>***NEWS FLASH***
I got an email from him, but all it had in it was the "W32beagle" virus. How fortunate I got Norton back up and running last month. What a jerk... >>
Well, he's now officially moved into slimeball territory.
Your scam didn't work. Bottom line!
Joe
You are a clown. You and I both know I have not sent you an email since I added you to the bloked bidders list! There is no further need to justify your childishness.
Regards Joe!
<< <i>You and I both know I have not sent you an email since I added you to the bloked bidders list! >>
Bloked bidders list?
Sounds like a very British term.
I disagree. 75 percent of the raw Washington's in my raw set came from ebay, and there were only one or two that I wasn't happy with. I've even been pleasantly surprised by the quality of a few. I've got a 37D that was sold as an XF, but will probably grade AU58 if I sent it in to graded.
It is my honest opinion that you have intended from the start to swap items.
It's amazing how many times I've seen that in one of these discussions from the dealer being accused.
There was no rim nick;
Looks like a nick to me.
Looking for PCGS AU58 Washington's, 32-63.
The seller is, in effect, claiming that (either before or after the Ebay transaction took place) the buyer got a different coin/example of the same date, that looks the same and has a rim problem in the same place, in order to switch coins and thereby profit from the difference in value between the two.
I don't think I'm buying that (pun intended) argument !
Let's face it, regardless of the terms of sale and all the other side issues, it would be pretty darned easy to verify whether the coin is the same or not. But, the seller seems to have zero interest in doing so or in standing behind the coin/item he sold.
The seller saved himself whatever he might have been out (in the short run) by allowing the return and re-selling the item. He potentially cost himself far more (in the long run).
<< <i>The seller saved himself whatever he might have been out (in the short run) by allowing the return and re-selling the item. He potentially cost himself far more (in the long run). >>
Unfortunately Mark, this seller doesn't appear to be able to comprehend that analysis.
If you look back far enough you'll see a double negative posted on my feedback from a "shady" seller who slammed me when he sent me a box of trash. What's worse? Paypal sided with him. Here 2 of you <which may be the same person and different identities> claim to have been attacked by a virus. That's another ploy used by scammers who get busted, they further their attempts to defame. Interestingly, if the lawsuit linked to in this thread holds up. It will set a precedent whereby all who posted in the negative towards poe58 could be subject to suit in the exact same fashion.
It's really neat that none of you expected to get answered by poe58 in this forum, or some of the posts obviously would not have been made. To bring back terms from the fidonet days, Troll, Lurker and driveby come to mind.
Bottom line the scans posted by Mirabela and the eBay scans are two different coins, one need only to open up 3 browser windows and line them up to see that. Notary public stamps aren't worth the paper they are stamped on, they do not hold up in court <stung by that one myself>. Mirabela, I think you have brought shame to yourself and the "friends" you have drug into your poor attempt to con a fair reputable seller on eBay.
Another thing that is interesting, it appears most of the members who sided with Mirabela don't appear to "buy" regularly from eBay they just complain about eBay.
Return Policies: Auctions are not required to have them on eBay. Those that do carry them MUST be read THOROUGHLY. If there are stipulations you don't like, don't complain and whine simply DON'T BID! I am sure each seller has his own reasons for the return policies they carry. God bless them. If I want the item I bid and conform. If their policy is not to my liking and I bid and win, I pay wait for the item, inspect it on receiving, like it or not I leave a positive feedback if the seller properly fulfilled his portion of the contract. I don't go whining all over the internet because so an so seller hurt my feelings. I certainly don't send threatening emails. I act like a grown up, take my toys and look for another auction.
If you don't like poe58's return policies you surely wouldn't like mine. Due to many buyers like Mirabela, I only sale AS IS on eBay. 25% of the auctions I have sold have been met with requests for "partial refunds" I had to add that I don't do partial refunds in my auctions as well to stop that. I don't make many high dollar sales, but I move the merchandise and the buyer if he can read english knows what my policy is. If you win a bid on eBay you are bound to the auction as it IS a contract. The contract in question here had a stated "no return without insurance policy" You had the ability to add the payment for insurance in the shipping portion of the PayPal invoice as well as a 500 character message box that could have been used to request said insurance. You did not do so. poe58 fulfilled his portion of the contract and you are now trying to renig, exchange different merchandise and clearly defame poe58 for your own poor or rather lack of judgement.
USMC Veteran 1981-1992
Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
Looking for PCGS AU58 Washington's, 32-63.
Guilty as charged!
What little my 3 post count counts, I object. It is my opinion based on mirabela's evidence that mirabela is in the wrong. Frankly, I would have refunded him just to shut him up. Apparently, poe58 is much more stubborn than I. Frankly after the correspondance from mirabela I might have become just as stubborn. mirabela's approach, gives the impression that he is indeed dishonest and throwing hammers at flies to further his dishonesty.
Forgive the typo's I use Linux and sometimes, I'm faster than the keyboard can handle.
USMC Veteran 1981-1992
Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
I post here all the time and my opinions are always intended.
Another thing that is interesting, it appears most of the members who sided with Mirabela don't appear to "buy" regularly from eBay they just complain about eBay.
I buy from ebay all the time.
Bottom line the scans posted by Mirabela and the eBay scans are two different coins, one need only to open up 3 browser windows and line them up to see that.
Interesting that they both have the same little ding below the letter D in Dollar.
Looking for PCGS AU58 Washington's, 32-63.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
From your own feedback! Since he isn't here to defend himself I deleted the ebay Id. If you want to find out just check Matt's feedbaack!
AN ECCENTRIC BUYER/SELLER that tried to bully refund-NEEDS TO GROW UP-Real Sad ! Seller XXXX( 592) Mar-17-04 16:08 2227464795
Reply by banjospitnwhittle: Coin was cleaned, refused refund, offered only 36% credit! Unethical seller. Mar-17-04 18:20
Same song Different day!
Joe
I am fully retired and I assure you $170 is not a lot of money to me. The money is far from important. I just don't like thiefs and or cry babies like. Matt
Not a buddy persay, But I have purchased more than 8 coins from him without a problem. On one occasion, I mentioned in passing in an email that a coin "was not exactly what I expected" and he begged me to send it back. I won it at what I felt a real good price and replied in the negative to returning it. Just like in mirabelas first post every email I have ever sent has been replied to promptly. If I didn't like his return policy I surely wouldn't bid, but hey insurance in my opinion is a bonus, if it is damaged, the insurance claim will pay the shipping costs as well.
If the PGCS sees fit to blacklist him, I think it would really be a loss to them not poe58 as all of the merchandise he carries "I feel" he honestly describes them to the best of his ability, If I didn't feel that way I would not have ever bid on any of his auctions.
Oh and Bikingnut, Thank You for your service to our country.
USMC Veteran 1981-1992
Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
Apparently, you didn't see my sig.
I don't know many pipefitter Journeymen that are in IT. Do you? I use linux because it is actually easier to use on the net than that Bill Gates Stuff. I don't send virii nor do I accept them :^}
Your accusation is false I assure you.
My IP is bellsouth.net Poe's is on charter cable. In this part of Mississippi cable is Time-Warner.
USMC Veteran 1981-1992
Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
Hmm, now we're getting somewhere. Mirabela has acknowledged he holds cleaned coins. Now, he just needs to admit he tried to swap one to poe58 in this transaction.
USMC Veteran 1981-1992
Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
I see absolutely no evidence that mirabela is trying to swap coins. This is the basis for refusing the refund, correct? In that case, whether or not the coin was insured while being shipped to the buyer would have absolutely no bearing on whether or not the same, or a different coin is returned to you. They are simply two completely seperate issues. Do you think that if mirabela had insured the shipment, that you would be somehow guaranteed to have the same coin returned? Nonsense! Mirabela was not trying to renegotiate the terms of your auction- to the contrary, he was going above and beyond to try and comply with your terms by offering to pay for insurance. I don't see where this constitutes attempted fraud or renegotiation. I also don't see grounds for the accusation of blackmail either. Mirabela laid out the steps he would take if an agreeable resolution could not be met. He was not endangering your life, liberty, or property by telling you his plan of action. If you mean blackmail as far as negative feedback is concerned, then you also have no complaint- because he didn't leave you any negative feedback. Can't say the same for you. The way I see it is that you have been paid fully for the transaction- as far as you are concerned, there was nothing to give mirabela a negative rating for.
If you intend to continue to do business on Ebay with the current terms you have laid out and strictly adhere to, then may I suggest adding to your terms an indication that additional steps are required to include insurance for your auctions. You could simply state:
"Due to the complexities of the turbolisting feature that I use for my auctions, I am unable to offer insurance in the checkout portion of the transaction. To comply with my return policy, please manually add the appropriate amount for insurance costs to your total before sending payment."
Two sentences that could save a lot of time and hassle, in my opinion. You may coinsider this to be extraneous, but in my mind this would clarify the situation and show the buyer that you have every intention of honoring your policies, and have laid out every step necessary to comply with your terms. Then the buyer would have absolutely no excuse for not complying with the insurance portion of your terms, which guarantee only that the package itelf will be covered going from you to the buyer. It does not guarantee that coins returned to you will be the same coins you shipped out. If you were concerned about this issue, then seal your holders with an adhesive label with your signature or initials on it. If the seal is broken, then the return policy is voided. If the seal is intact with your signature, then you know that the coin you have in your hand is the one that you sent. Adhesive labels and a pen are much cheaper than legal fees and the headaches involved in arguing about this.
If you take both of these suggestions, I would say that you would probably never see a situation like this arise again, which I believe would benefit both parties involved here.
My 5c worth- take it as you will....
What is it currently? People screwing each other, no kissing involved, and then having such spitting matches?
Poe.....let's put it bluntly....as a seller, you suck!
If you are as "honest" as you profess.....offer the refunds. And, don't use "turbolister" or whatever as an excuse. Go back and edit your auctions to include insurance if wanted.
Otherwise, you are purposely adding more hoops for people to jump through and then using that as a claim to not refund.
Even if someone may have sided with you at the start, I am suprised if anyone sides with you now after your posts. Obviously catfish does, but, then, he uses linux and that is obviously evident of mental problems in itself
Catfish...you seem to have sided on this awful quickly and seem to want to try to attack mirabela.......whether or not you are the seller in another ID, or a friend/co-conspirator, or whatever, you are tossing out accusations, or hidden accusations at someone that you would hold no interest in if you were just " a bystander".
If you sell on ebay, then just block mirabela and that should make you happy if you don't trust him.
Between the 2 of them (and, before this thread, I wouldn't know a "mirabela" from a "poe58"), I would NOT buy from poe58 but I would sell to mirabela.
You think that means something? You think maybe people can read, and read between the lines, to see who is more trustworthy?
btw.....you should read what buffnut just wrote.....very well written and something that any HONEST and intelligent person should/would do.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Maybe several of us can "win" one of his auctions and post neg FB for the man. As a minimum we should inform high bidders of the crap they are about to receive. Yes, in the long run, old poedunk will not benefit from this transaction.
You would think that after 25 years in this hobby one would learn how to spot mint luster and strike details. Sad that Poe has not learned the basics. Let's all shed a crocodile tear for the man.
roadrunner
As I stated earlier, it is amazing how many times I've seen this accusation in discussions on this topic. (When the seller is called on misrepresented items)
Looking for PCGS AU58 Washington's, 32-63.
p.s. i've made $123,000 of coins purchases in the last 3 years....no b.s.
If you sell on ebay, then just block mirabela and that should make you happy if you don't trust him.
How fast did everyone side with mirabela? I merely maintain that the scans he offered as "evidence" do not appear to be the same coin as the one listed on eBay.
If you read all of my posts carefully you would see where I differ in opinion from poe58. "I would have refunded him just to shut him up" OF course, I'd do so knowing that mirabela <based on his offered scans {more to it in his scan than just the one alledged nick folks}> would be sending me a different coin.
On the linux comment..... maybe I should add to my sig <Beware, I use linux, I may be smarter than my posts appear> LOL
I've also formed the opinion K6AZ and mirabela are either clones or are married.
USMC Veteran 1981-1992
Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
I could careless at the moment as I am not ripped off nor am I ripping anyone off, but yours was a slanted "differing in opinion".
Not worth the price of admission
I haven't looked at the scans, nor care to. Seems that the rim ding is there though, from what trustworthy and knowledgable people have said. If you camp out on the board long enough, you will learn who the grumpy people are as well as the grumpy but well respected no BS type of people. And, you will also learn who the other smart ones are.
Then, you will also see a revolving door of sellers who come to defend themselves and watch as they shoot themselves in the foot. You will also see people defend others, are proven wrong, and won't admit it. You will see people attack and drive new people away and then be proven wrong as well....and few will admit their wrongs in that.
But, you seem to be quite argumentative. And, kind of preposterous calling K6AZ and mirabela the same person (clones/married). They each have their own personality (at least, Eric does...I know that much having seen a lot of his posts
If you are intelligent at all, you will have to admit your "arrival post" and the slant of your posts do seem to mirror the other new poster (the seller) to this thread. Quite a coincidence. Especially when a newbie just jumps in and argues so much in 1 thread right away.
Ah well, have fun.
As for the linux thing....well, again, that actually does explain a lot to me.....a lot of people that are so proud to run linux are quite arrogant and slanted in their beliefs...and seem to believe that they are always right and any differing opinion is wrong. No little laughing icons on that one.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Once again--$170 is not worth the harm you have done to your future auctions!
A coordinated Feedback attack is easily removed from eBay read their Terms of Service. You have already provided evidence if an attempt occcurs. That was especially nice of you alerting poe58 that way.
USMC Veteran 1981-1992
Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
Good Night All!
Joe
I have placed in my posts that I have purchased from poe58. Not hard to figure that out one need only look at his feedback and find my moniker there. Just following the chain of evidence that mirabela provided and my own past experiences with poe58 as a seller on eBay. I definitely side with poe58. Mirabela in his own postings provided me with that. He posted this thread merely to smear poe58. It appears in no way to be posted as an "alert" to other members. An Alert would be "I had a bad experience with poe58 and I would not buy from him again."
I am discredited automagically because I sided with an "eBay Seller" in a thread that was clearly meant solely to defame and discredit him. I am anxious to see how the "legal proceedings" go. I do not believe mirabela has a case. His scans are almost completly different from the eBay posted ones "dings" aside.
Is this a credible discussion board or is this merely a place to "BASH" eBay Sellers? In this thread, a place to bash a seller when a swap was headed off by a buyers own scans? Reading the emails in reverse order as suggested by mirabela puts this in perspective.
Shipping via USPS on Paypal completed <Seller thinks well that's done>
email arrives asking to 4x pay for insurance <Seller thinks, uh oh here comes a scam>
Seller responds sorry already shipped
Buyer receives coin sends email with scans <not what he thought> <seller thinks yep I'm being scammed that's not my coin!>
Responds sorry no can refund <Seller thinks oh man here it comes>
Buyer sends email with demands <Seller thinks, yep, it's a typical hardball response from a scammer>
Responds with opinion that buyer was attempting scam. {mistake in my opinion} I would have just denied the refund based on a clearly stated refund policy.
Buyer sends email with threats and feedback extortion <buyer thinks absolutly a scam>
Of course everyone was quick to jump on mirabela's side because he posted first and everyone pities him. Heck, I pity him. I wonder why there was only one other attempt besides me to view from the sellers side. Clearly a prejudice was shown in favor of mirabela even though mirabela made a mistake from the start. He should never have bid on the auction in the first place if he had an "odd" feeling about the return policy. poe58 made no mistake mirabela did in bidding on an auction if he had the least reservation about it.
USMC Veteran 1981-1992
Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
All I see is a whole lot of coin buyers scratching off another ebay seller from their "where I spend money" list..... Even if the buyer is to blame here, you're not doing yourself any favors with the way this is being handled....