Even if the buyer is to blame here, you're not doing yourself any favors with the way this is being handled....
I have to agree with you there Myqqy. The snippets were uncalled for and immature. But still my experiences [so far] have been positive. I hope everyone of you take him off of your lists, That means less I have to bid to win his auctions!
Member Steamfitters Local 614 USMC Veteran 1981-1992 Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
catfish, to me, it doesn't matter who posted first.
do YOU believe the coin is cleaned? do YOU believe it was accurately and fairly represented?
That is the crux of the matter to me.
Also, to have a return policy that is dependent on insurance that is labeled as "not available" is deceitful. I don't care if someone "can" ask the seller a question first. PoorPoe could have started the thread and I would feel the same way.
Just because some transactions go through well doesn't mean the person isn't a jerk to others, for whatever reasons. Was your coin raw? Were you honestly happy about how it was represented (not the price you paid but the description of the coin compared with the coin). Are you a discerning numismatist? I am sure that there are coins that I would be "happy" with receiving thinking things were fine whereas Russ, Frank, Coinguy1, K6AZ, Lucybop and others would think was not described correctly because they have more knowledge and experience than I. So, maybe mirabela has that experience of he doesn't....but, for someone to profess being an ANA member and then act like poe has done and not give a refund (who would receive a coin then clean it and try to return it???) is sad in and of itself.
Like someone else posted....I'm done with the thread.....all you want to do is argue.....go enjoy that with someone else and you can keep buying from poe...he has lost quite a few potential customers here already I would wager.
I must be missing something. If a buyer asked me about insurance after I sold an item on ebay, and I have sold my share, I certainly wouldn't have jumped to that conlusion right away. What gives? It's been my experience that people who go on the defensive right from the start have something to hide.
As a buyer I would want insurance to protect my 170 dollar investment. In June I won a 43P Washington PCGS MS65 that was shipped on 6/14. It never arrived. It was nowhere near $170, but because I paid for insurance, the seller recovered the funds from the post office. The seller happened to be a reputable one and didn't try and accuse medeceiving him. Items lost or stolen while in the hands of the USPS happens all the time as it is discussed here at least once a week. If I was a seller, I would definitely want insurance and delivery confirmation to protect myself
This is a legitimate discussion board where issues like this are discussed frequently. It's a way of educating others and pointing out the "bad eggs". It's not very often that we are blessed to have both sides enter the discussion.
And the alleged ding is there. Look closely at the reverse on the auction photo. If you can't see it, well...
Hello Bikingnut He asked about buying insurance after he recieved the emial notifying him that I had already shipped his item. He knew there was no way I could insure a package that had already been shipped!
Again, Thank You for your service to our country Bikingnut.
must be missing something.
Yes "a" ding is there. There are other marks differing between the scans which everyone focusing on the alledged "ding" are missing.
The flag that sends a scam warning is the request for insurance is offered at 4x the rate{flag} and comes many hours after the shipping has been completed.
Member Steamfitters Local 614 USMC Veteran 1981-1992 Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
I still don't see why you would jump to that conclusion. Did you purchase any kind of tracking for the coin? If you didn't, it would have been a lot easier for him to just email you and say he never received the coin after he had asked for insurance. Then there would have been a reason to be suspicious. Why go to all the trouble to switch the coin?
The coins are the same, although his scans are much poorer than your picture. The toning is the same, although seen better in his scan, and the "alleged" nick is there in both pictures and in the same spot. I can take ten different pictures of toned coins with my camera and each will look like a different coin with different lighting.
<< <i>Yes the ding is there. There are other marks differing between the scans which everyone focusing on the alledged "ding" are missing.
Catfish, your attempts to explain this one away are truly pathetic. Please, just shut up, as a number of us are sick of your inane blathering.
The flag that sends a scam warning is . . .
. . . joining the forum within milliseconds of scamster poe58's exposure. >>
Well, that's really a mature thought. Glad you dropped by.
Member Steamfitters Local 614 USMC Veteran 1981-1992 Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
The flag that sends a scam warning is the request for insurance is offered at 4x the rate{flag} and comes many hours after the shipping has been completed.
If Insurance is desired, please add $1.30 for each Fifty Dollars of value.
The above quote was stated in the auction. He was actually short according to your aution instructions and should have offered you 1.30 X 5 even 5 and a half. Good night all!
Edited: In my late night haze I miscalcuated. 1.30 X 4 would have been correct following your instructions.
<< <i>Bikingnut said.... If Insurance is desired, please add $1.30 for each Fifty Dollars of value.
The above quote was stated in the auction. He was actually short according to your aution instructions and should have offered you 1.30 X 5 even 5 and a half. Good night all! >>
You're absolutly right, I missed that. But, it wasn't my auction. It was poe's. Still, it was hours after the shipping was completed.
I just ran through poe58's feedback.... 337 transactions and not a single problem until the last couple of weeks. One guy wanting a refund and keep the coin, and this case. To me that speaks loads in favor of poe58. mirabela are you just a friend of the "wanting a refund and keep the coin guy" trying to retaliate only having it backfire because of mistakes on your part? I guess it could be just a coincidence. But then again it would explain an awful lot.
335 positive transactions with rave remarks. One post in this forum and everyone is ready to hang him from the big oak in the middle of town. I truly don't think mirabela has a case. Everyone who has run to his cause arebailing with a spoon from a sinking ship.
Member Steamfitters Local 614 USMC Veteran 1981-1992 Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
poe, I haven't been able to get past this part - you have stated:
<< <i>When you received the notice of shipment and then sent me an email attempting to change the terms after you already knew I had shipped the item >>
<< <i>Having said that, in this case Matt emailed me after he received the notice of shipment from PayPal >>
<< <i>He asked about buying insurance after he recieved the emial notifying him that I had already shipped his item >>
I've paid for a lot of items via PayPal. Not once have I received an email notifying me of shipment. Is this a preference that you can change? Even if PayPal (or you) sent an email notifying him of shipment, how do you know that he got (and/or read) it?
"What are you putting that tape on your nose for?" "Exactly."
What is the purpose of the "no refunds/returns unless item is insured" baloney? Not only is it meaningless (as far as avoiding swaps), but it just complicates the sale. I have optional insurance in my auctions with a 10-day return period and that's it!
"What is the seller up to?" would be my first thought and I'd probably avoid the auction.
Mike
Coppernicus
Lincoln Wheats (1909 - 1958) Basic Set - Always Interested in Upgrading!
Missed a lot more than that. Why don't you start with an explanation that approaches credibility? Your theory is absurd, the defense ludicrous.
Still, it was hours after the shipping was completed.
"Hours" after shipping was "completed"? How would either party know in such precise detail when "shipping" was "completed" (whatever that means). These are lies, lies and gibberish having no substance whatever. This manure wouldn't pass muster with the O.J. Simpson jury.
. . . joining the forum within milliseconds of scamster poe58's exposure. >>
I think there is something wrong with your clock. This thread was active a full day before I joined. Also it was an e-mail forwarded from Mark to me that led me to the google search that revealed this thread. Once I found it I emailed the link to poe58. That is how we got here. So there ya go, it's all Mark's fault that I'm here.
Honestly, is there anyone of you with a seller on your "favorite sellers" list that you'd had many positive transactions with getting hammered UNJUSTLY that wouldn't go and view the threads for yourself? poe58 maintains that he did not sell a cleaned coin. The scans offered in this thread appear to be of different coins than the ones on eBay to me. Based off of my many transactions with poe58 I choose to believe him. In this point could someone point me in the direction where mirabela has any credibility? One of his emails clearly contained 2 textbook examples of feedback extortion in accordance with eBay's definition. One of the statements match word for word with one of eBay's listed examples. mirabela has violated an eBay policy twice and that discredits him. Also as poe58 pointed out it is curious that mirabela's only other negative was for the exact same tactics. That is another damaging point to his credibility in this thread.
On good notes in this thread, some of you have been kind enough to offer suggestions on wording for poe58 and his auctions. That was a very nice gesture and I hope that poe58 takes those suggestions into account. see y'all this evening.... guess I can count on an email box full of this thread.
Member Steamfitters Local 614 USMC Veteran 1981-1992 Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
The scans offered in this thread appear to be of different coins than the ones on eBay to me.
That is because you are full of it.
Once I found it I emailed the link to poe58. That is how we got here. So there ya go, it's all Mark's fault that I'm here.
No, you "got here" because you know the fraud was exposed in damaging fashion, "poe58's" explanation was laughable, and your current defense, such as it is, insults our intelligence.
Thankfully, this fraud's exposure is going to hurt where it counts: the wallet. Concerning the latter, I am ecstatic.
Matt, you have several options here. It is apparent that this seller is not going to refund your money and accept the coin in return voluntarily.
First, have your witness who was with you write a statement. Then take the coin to a reputable dealer and have him write a short statement about the condition and value of the coin.
The auction had PayPal Buyer Protection, so that will be your first step. Here is a link to how to report the situation to PayPal:
Ebay's standard buyer protection program covers item's up to $200 with a $25 deductible.
If for some reason your claim is denied by both PayPal and eBay, file a complaint with the ANA. From this guy's auction:
"Please keep in mind that I rely solely on my 25 years of experience to provide you with my honest and accurate opinion of the condition and or grade of the coins I sale. While I am a member of the American Numismatic Association, and I do strive to abide by the Standards set forth by the A.N.A. I am not certified by any coin grading service. The grade, if any, I place in the item description is only My Opinion. I always provide High resolution scans in my auctions. I include all known relevant information in the item description to assist you in making an informed decision as to the condition and or grade of the item."
I realize this is a lot to do for less than $200, but this guy's attitude and his good buddy here really tick me off, and I'm not even the buyer. Go after this guy and don't let him get away with this.
Yeah... I initiated the ebay fraud alert & the paypal buyer protection claim, w/ all the emails attached. Also traced the IP address the viruses came from (same as his emails) & opened an inquiry with his service provider. Further, as electronic harrassment is a federal crime, I spoke this morning with the FBI Burlington office who were very helpful in their advice on how to handle this, and had a good talk with my local police -- who in my calm tiny town have comparatively little drama in their lives & got fired up about the intrigue of it all & think they can have it prosecuted -- and I'm giving them a statement, the emails, the expanded headers of the virus ones, and the links to this thread. And, there's the ANA if he's really a member.
As for the 'taking it to a reputable dealer' piece -- the closest folks with any name recognition are (heaven help me) Littleton Coin (!!!!!) so I'm thinking I might be better sending it to ANACS who will slab it with appropriate notation & a net grade. I wonder what folks' thoughts about that are? I thought about PCI because they're fast & cheap, but they'd probably give it an inflated grade, wouldn't they?
OK, the guy is dead to rights now -- yes, he paid for his internet USPS postage on 7/29 and thereby "completed shipping" and sent me the 'item has shipped' notice, but it is postmarked the 30th. I hadn't seen the faint postmark stamp on the package before, but it's there. So he's lying about having already shipped it, I guess, as though that's at the crux of the matter anyway. I'm not surprised.
UNBELIEVABLE YOU GAVE HIM POSITIVE FEEDBACK!! you deserve the coin and now other bidders can be taken for a ride too. you made so many mistakes you deserve the coin.
PCGS sets under The Thomas Collections. Modern Commemoratives @ NGC under "One Coin at a Time". USMC Active 1966 thru 1970" The real War.
Catfish: Poe says he is a member of the ANA. If I read the ANA's code of ethics properly Poe needs to accept returns.
Why stick someone with a coin they don't want? It doesn't make sense, at least if you are in business for the long term. If the return was accepted politely mirabela might have bid on another item. As it stands now several of us have added Poe to our blocked bidders list and won't bid on his items.
I think I've deciphered the postmark -- (edited to add) either 2:04 or 7:04 PM, July 30. Either way, after USPS close of business Saturday, 7/30, the day after I emailed to request insurance. Quite a long wait if the thing was put in the mail on the 29th.
Gee, is it any wonder that Poe/Catfish stopped posting after Mirabela posted that he initiated contact with the authorities?
BTW, I think it's pretty easy for CU to get their ISP to track the source route, IP and MAC addrs of both Poe and Catfish to aid in the hunting down of fraudulent conduct. I wouldn't ask CU to do this over regular shills/trolls who behave like jerks. In this case, they'd be aiding a real criminal activity, and win brownie points too!
<< <i>Catfish: Poe says he is a member of the ANA. If I read the ANA's code of ethics properly Poe needs to accept returns.
Why stick someone with a coin they don't want? It doesn't make sense, at least if you are in business for the long term. If the return was accepted politely mirabela might have bid on another item. As it stands now several of us have added Poe to our blocked bidders list and won't bid on his items. >>
I am not a member of the ANA, so I can't speak to that. poe58 says he is a member of the ANA and since that is their code then Yes he is obligated to comply to ANA standards. Under eBay's rules and under this particular contract he is not. That is for him to decide.
As I have stated, I would have refunded mirabela just to shut him up. To me it is obvious that poe58 feels that mirabela attempted to scam him from the start and has acted as he has under that belief. Perhaps based on the seemingly same circumstance as mirabela's prior negative feedback having the same profile. Is Poe right? This is the US and it is a free country and he can choose to act as he pleases. I gave 11 years in the Marines to assure everyone that right.
I've seen accusations about virus infected emails I would like to see that proven here since it has been accused here. Those accusing may send the encapsulated email and headers directly to catfish172@elvis.com if they wish. It will have to be encapsulated or bellsouth will delete it before it gets to me. I also would request that mirabela rescan the "suspect" coin at 400 dpi as it was originally in the eBay auction for an "Apples to Apples" comparison. His 1200 dpi scan shows many differences than the 400 dpi one and that is what keeps me thinking it is a different coin. I'm not talking about the toning as that is a matter of lighting. The single ding referenced doesn't prove "without a doubt" that it is the same coin as the ding in the 1200 dpi scan looks different and could have been done with a jewelers screwdriver.
All of this could have been avoided altogether had mirabela followed his instincts and not bid in the first place when he felt the return policy was "odd". He also could've paid and requested the insurance in the shipping portion of the invoice and requested it in the message space provided by Paypal.
Poe58 knowing that his turblister software is flawed should take the extra steps necessary to allow for the insurance, however the automated insurance option defaults to $1.30. The actual amount of insurance cannot be determined until the auction ends for items selling over $50. I think if he's going to require insurance in order to allow returns he should make it mandatory and add it to the shipping in his invoice before he sends it out. I think I have mentioned that to him directly before. The case mirabela has laid out is severely flawed and full of "big talk", includes blatant violations of ebay policies, and just isn't adding up. His scans appear different, he's accused Poe58 of sending a virus without offering proof and all of these are tactics used by buyers who scam. They are also blatantly unethical practices. Were he sincere in his efforts the hardball bullying email would not be necessary.
Member Steamfitters Local 614 USMC Veteran 1981-1992 Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
<< <i>Gee, is it any wonder that Poe/Catfish stopped posting after Mirabela posted that he initiated contact with the authorities?
BTW, I think it's pretty easy for CU to get their ISP to track the source route, IP and MAC addrs of both Poe and Catfish to aid in the hunting down of fraudulent conduct. I wouldn't ask CU to do this over regular shills/trolls who behave like jerks. In this case, they'd be aiding a real criminal activity, and win brownie points too!
EVP >>
My IP is 68.209.224.17, ping it, traceroute it, DOS it, do as you wish, I have an autoblacklister running. You will see it traces out to adsl.mem.bellsouth.net. While I am in Mississippi, Bellsouth is routed via Memphis, TN.
It's also hard to post when you're out working for a living. I'm a pipefitter journeyman and I work, Poe has stated he is retired. I don't believe mirabela has initiiated contact if he has they are very slow. Of course he has never received an email from me so what do I have to fear from him.
Member Steamfitters Local 614 USMC Veteran 1981-1992 Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
I am not a member of the ANA, so I can't speak to that. poe58 says he is a member of the ANA and since that is their code then Yes he is obligated to comply to ANA standards. Under eBay's rules and under this particular contract he is not. That is for him to decide.
First, you're in error about the stated insurance charges -- and even used that to attack the buyer. Oh, You're absolutely right, I missed that, you wrote. Now you're also in error about the ANA rules. Worse still, the postmark confirms the "shipping" ruse you championed also is a lie.
Truth is, you know nothing about the facts. Should have shut your mouth yesterday, as I advised you. Now that your "theory" has been exploded by the hard facts, it will be good fun indeed to watch you further embarrass yourself.
Mirabela, get those pics up. I'll host them for you, if you wish, so make them nice and big -- turn the jpeg compression down to zero.
<< <i>I am not a member of the ANA, so I can't speak to that. poe58 says he is a member of the ANA and since that is their code then Yes he is obligated to comply to ANA standards. Under eBay's rules and under this particular contract he is not. That is for him to decide.
First, you're in error about the stated insurance charges -- and even used that to attack the buyer. Oh, You're absolutely right, I missed that, you wrote. Now you're also in error about the ANA rules. Worse still, the postmark confirms the "shipping" ruse you championed also is a lie.
Truth is, you know nothing about the facts. Should have shut your mouth yesterday, as I advised you. Now that your "theory" has been exploded by the hard facts, it will be good fun indeed to watch you further embarrass yourself.
Mirabela, get those pics up. I'll host them for you, if you wish, so make them nice and big -- turn the jpeg compression down to zero. >>
I am not poe58.
Member Steamfitters Local 614 USMC Veteran 1981-1992 Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
<< <i> My IP is 68.209.224.17, ping it, traceroute it, DOS it, do as you wish, I have an autoblacklister running. You will see it traces out to adsl.mem.bellsouth.net. While I am in Mississippi, Bellsouth is routed via Memphis, TN.
It's also hard to post when you're out working for a living. I'm a pipefitter journeyman and I work, Poe has stated he is retired. I don't believe mirabela has initiiated contact if he has they are very slow. Of course he has never received an email from me so what do I have to fear from him. >>
What was the point of giving us your IP address, and then telling us you have a blacklister (that will effectivly block a complete tracert on the given IP), that will only rout to as far as Hollywood, FLA? I can tracert IP's to NY that route through California, so telling us that it routs through Memphis TN is useless.
Oh, and there is such a thing called an anon-proxy, which could effectivly mask your real IP with a "fake" one.
<< <i> My IP is 68.209.224.17, ping it, traceroute it, DOS it, do as you wish, I have an autoblacklister running. You will see it traces out to adsl.mem.bellsouth.net. While I am in Mississippi, Bellsouth is routed via Memphis, TN.
It's also hard to post when you're out working for a living. I'm a pipefitter journeyman and I work, Poe has stated he is retired. I don't believe mirabela has initiiated contact if he has they are very slow. Of course he has never received an email from me so what do I have to fear from him. >>
What was the point of giving us your IP address, and then telling us you have a blacklister (that will effectivly block a complete tracert on the given IP), that will only rout to as far as Hollywood, FLA? I can tracert IP's to NY that route through California, so telling us that it routs through Memphis TN is useless.
Oh, and there is such a thing called an anon-proxy, which could effectivly mask your real IP with a "fake" one.
>>
Would you like my street address?
Member Steamfitters Local 614 USMC Veteran 1981-1992 Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
What was the point of giving us your IP address, and then telling us you have a blacklister (that will effectivly block a complete tracert on the given IP), that will only rout to as far as Hollywood, FLA? I can tracert IP's to NY that route through California, so telling us that it routs through Memphis TN is useless.
>>
I assure you that ip is mine and is in Horn Lake, Mississippi not Hollywood, FL. My blacklister doesn't block tracert or pings it merely detects things like code red, blaster and DOS attacks and blacklists the IP it and the log entries are also forwarded to public blacklist agencies {Spamhaus.org for one} so if you attempt such activity you will not only get blocked from me but other IP's as well.
Member Steamfitters Local 614 USMC Veteran 1981-1992 Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
Catfish -- while I have my reservations about the fishiness of it all, I'll send you those emails. The virus attachments now show as "Norton Antivirus" files as NAV quarantined or disinfected them (whatever it is it does when they come and it catches them -- I'm not an IT guy and I've been having sort of a crash course in how this sort of BS works). You say you want them what? Encapsulated? Just explain how to do that, and they'll be on their way. I'm in touch w/ sequitur regarding hosting the pics. I'll gladly put up both the 1200 dpi scans at full size (yes, they aren't all that useful shrunk to 20% but that's what I had to do in order to upload them at under 40K) and put lower res pics up. Poe says he took them at 400 dpi; my software will do 150, 300, 600, or 1200. What's your pleasure?
BTW, I checked the ANA bylaws, and if this guy is really a member, this single offense is enough to get him thrown out. It will cost me $75 to raise the complaint, and I've got 90 days to do it, so I'll see how other avenues pan out first.
Here, anyhow, are the expanded headers:
EXPANDED HEADERS OF EMAIL CONTAINING BEAGLE VIRUS
X-Symantec-TimeoutProtection: 0 X-Symantec-TimeoutProtection: 1 X-Symantec-TimeoutProtection: 2 Return-Path: <Poe12958@charter.net> Received: from smx0.sover.net (smx0.sover.net [209.198.87.175]) by mailhub1.sover.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i74G0aX20671 for <mirabela@mailhub1.sover.net>; Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:00:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx3.sover.net (mx3.sover.net [209.198.87.173]) by smx0.sover.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i74G0YIc043613 for <mirabela@mailhub1.sover.net>; Wed, 4 Aug 2004 16:00:34 GMT Received: from paul-nkiocz88xc.net (lsanca1-ar3-008-181.biz.dsl.gtei.net [4.3.8.181]) by mx3.sover.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i74G0Krd016730 for <mirabela@sover.net>; Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:00:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 09:00:22 -0800 To: mirabela@sover.net Subject: Re: Yahoo! From: Poe12958@charter.net Message-ID: <gjyturpfqcmijcurktb@sover.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--------hvqifgxccnrxipbtswhm" X-DCC-xmailer-Metrics: lincoln.sover.net 1173; bulk Body=5 Fuz1=5 Fuz2=many X-Scanned-By: SoVerNet, Inc. X-Spam-Milter-Report: Content analysis details: (2.8 points, 5.0 required) 0.2 NO_REAL_NAME From: does not include a real name 1.0 FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS From: ends in numbers 0.3 MIME_HTML_ONLY BODY: Message only has text/html MIME parts 0.1 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 1.2 HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_02 BODY: HTML: images with 0-200 bytes of words X-Spam-Milter-Score: ** X-Spam-Milter-Status: No, hits=2.804 required=5 l=0 f=2 st=1 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_02,HTML_MESSAGE,MIME_HTML_ONLY,NO_REAL_NAME Status:
EXPANDED HEADERS OF EMAIL CONTAINING OTHER (IP SPOOF) VIRUS:
X-Symantec-TimeoutProtection: 0 X-Symantec-TimeoutProtection: 1 Return-Path: <Poe12958@charter.net> Received: from smx1.sover.net (smx1.sover.net [209.198.87.176]) by mailhub1.sover.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i74G0bX20708 for <mirabela@mailhub1.sover.net>; Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:00:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx0.sover.net (mailgate0.sover.net [209.198.87.43]) by smx1.sover.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i74G0ZhU060991 for <mirabela@mailhub1.sover.net>; Wed, 4 Aug 2004 16:00:36 GMT Received: from paul-nkiocz88xc.com (lsanca1-ar3-008-181.biz.dsl.gtei.net [4.3.8.181]) by mx0.sover.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i74G0KUG010145 for <mirabela@sover.net>; Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:00:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 09:00:22 -0800 To: mirabela@sover.net Subject: Email report From: support@sover.net Message-ID: <higlxylrorffavcgmfy@sover.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--------berqrqfokwhgylactkem" X-DCC-SoVerNet-Metrics: stratton.sover.net 1173; bulk Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=many X-Scanned-By: SoVerNet, Inc. X-Spam-Milter-Report: Content analysis details: (1.6 points, 5.0 required) 0.2 NO_REAL_NAME From: does not include a real name 0.3 MIME_HTML_ONLY BODY: Message only has text/html MIME parts 0.1 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 1.0 HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04 BODY: HTML: images with 200-400 bytes of words X-Spam-Milter-Score: * X-Spam-Milter-Status: No, hits=1.581 required=5 l=75 f=2 st=1 tests=HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04,HTML_MESSAGE,MIME_HTML_ONLY,NO_REAL_NAME Status:
Assuming Catfish and Poe are different people I think we should give Catfish the benefit of the doubt. I think Catfish is straight as he is offering his personal address. If Poe offers his personal address or if mirabela compares Catfish's address with Poe's we might have a lead on the idea that Poe=Catfish. Personally I guess they are different people...
Funding Type: PayPal Funds Funding Source: $0.93 USD - PayPal Account Carrier: US Postal Service Method: First Class Mail Package Type: Package/Thick Envelope Mailing Date: Jul. 29, 2004 Ship From:
Status: Confirmed Residential address
Tracking Number: 9101128882300065609902 Track Package Payment Transaction: This shipping label has a related payment transaction. For further details, please see transaction 0LK30266GA7478719
The new ebay rules require a refund of a coin if the ANA determines that it is not as described. The seller does not have to be an ANA member for this provision to apply. The exact eBay language:
"Sellers agree to promptly refund the purchase price for any item that has been deemed by the ANA as other than as offered or described by the seller."
Wow such drama! I had to take a break before finishing the entire thread. If catfish and Poe are not the same person (and I'll give Catfish the benefit of the doubt) I have to admire his tenacity in defending Poe more than Poe is defending himself. Popcorn anyone?
Return-Path: <Poe12958@charter.net> Received: from smx0.sover.net (smx0.sover.net [209.198.87.175]) by mailhub1.sover.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i74G0aX20671 for <mirabela@mailhub1.sover.net>; Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:00:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx3.sover.net (mx3.sover.net [209.198.87.173]) by smx0.sover.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i74G0YIc043613 for <mirabela@mailhub1.sover.net>; Wed, 4 Aug 2004 16:00:34 GMT Received: from paul-nkiocz88xc.net (lsanca1-ar3-008-181.biz.dsl.gtei.net [4.3.8.181]) by mx3.sover.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i74G0Krd016730 for <mirabela@sover.net>; Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:00:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 09:00:22 -0800 To: mirabela@sover.net Subject: Re: Yahoo! From: Poe12958@charter.net
Since you can't do apples for apples on the scans. I'll drop that request and will not refer to them any longer. I appreciate you offering resolutions available to you.
Someone will have to help me on the headers. These headers appear that although the Return-Path and From: headers say poe12958@charter.net, Received: from is from a computer whose netbios name is paul-nkiocz88xc.net on a DSL connection at ip 4.3.8.181 and isn't from the ip's owned by charter cable. These do not appear to have come from Joe, but rather from a guy most likely named "Paul"
Member Steamfitters Local 614 USMC Veteran 1981-1992 Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
Nice try there catfish. You and Poe are one and the same.
I can't be Poe he is in Belpre, OH. I am in Horn Lake, Mississippi I use Linux and he is doomed to a Bill Gates OS which in my opinion is barely suitable for gaming when it doesn't crash. Let's see the headers you received since you jumped on the Virus bandwagon. Maybe Paul is your friend, too.
Member Steamfitters Local 614 USMC Veteran 1981-1992 Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
Received: from paul-nkiocz88xc.net (lsanca1-ar3-008-181.biz.dsl.gtei.net [4.3.8.181])
Based off of the nature of dsl's pppoe authentication the perp's name could possibly be Paul lsanca.
Member Steamfitters Local 614 USMC Veteran 1981-1992 Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
OK, let's see... I'll give catfish the benefit of the doubt. Catfish, the two emails from Poe are on their way to you. Would you like to see the exchange between sovernet support and me regarding them? That IP belongs to a company called level3 communications, headquartered in Colorado. They sell tons of broadband space to local providers, including charter.net. Charter doesn't have any way to contact someone directly unless you already are a customer or live in their service area (I don't) so my AUP violation procedure had to initiate with level3. I spoke with them this morning in person as well as by email, and that proceding is underway.
Scans are on their way to sequitur in 300 and 1200 dpi, although I may need instructions on how to disable jpg compression as it seems my machine wanted to shrink them to send them anyhow. The 1200 dpi files are about 5.5 megs each, definitely big enough to establish this as the same coin, and definitely big enough to establish it as mercilessly scrubbed.
By now, my sense of it is something like this -- I'll probably get my money back, but at the cost of at least as much money since the ANACS fee will cost, as will the ANA complaint proceeding. Maybe poe can be shut down on ebay, probably not. We all know he can reopen under another name, PO box, email address or what have you in a heartbeat. At least we know what to look for in an auction listing. He has, along with posting my address (note -- all coins are in a safe deposit box ) posted his own name & town of residence, so those who are making up their own minds about this will know who this is if they want to buy from him in the future -- or not! Will his service provider crack down for AUP violations? Will the case of electronic harrassment be prosecuted ? I'll probably never know.
The scans, when posted, I think will enable anybody who remains in doubt to establish at the very least these things: this is the coin poe sold, and it has been cleaned. Beyond that, there isn't much to the case regarding the coin.
<< <i>OK, let's see... I'll give catfish the benefit of the doubt. Catfish, the two emails from Poe are on their way to you. Would you like to see the exchange between sovernet support and me regarding them? That IP belongs to a company called level3 communications, headquartered in Colorado. They sell tons of broadband space to local providers, including charter.net. Charter doesn't have any way to contact someone directly unless you already are a customer or live in their service area (I don't) so my AUP violation procedure had to initiate with level3. I spoke with them this morning in person as well as by email, and that proceding is underway. >>
I don't need them the headers you posted were sufficent to disprove they were not from Poe. I think you'll find that the virus originated from a Paul Lsanca I do not know if he did so knowingly or unknowingly. He is most likely located in Argentina or possibly Arkansas.
Member Steamfitters Local 614 USMC Veteran 1981-1992 Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
Fascinating. Any insight into why they would arrive right in the middle of a post-transaction dispute, containing the name (or handle) of the person with whom I'm having the dispute? I have no reason to try and defame this fellow this way; the pics & his correspondence & subsequent comments paint a better picture of him than I ever could. And anyway, all I want is my money back and for anyone whose attention I can call to this seller's MO to know about it. In any case, if the emails didn't come from him I'm sure the techie folks at his ISP will know it and leave him alone. So will the law.
<< <i>Fascinating. Any insight into why they would arrive right in the middle of a post-transaction dispute, containing the name (or handle) of the person with whom I'm having the dispute? I have no reason to try and defame this fellow this way; the pics & his correspondence & subsequent comments do a wonderful job of defamation. And anyway, all I want is my money back and for anyone whose attention I can call to this seller's MO to know about it. In any case, if the emails didn't come from him I'm sure the techie folks at his ISP will know it and leave him alone. So will the law. >>
Yes, email headers can be tricked to pull from and reply headers out of ones own address book. An indicator in this case that some of the virus got through at least the part that performed said behaviour.
Member Steamfitters Local 614 USMC Veteran 1981-1992 Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
Comments
I have to agree with you there Myqqy. The snippets were uncalled for and immature. But still my experiences [so far] have been positive. I hope everyone of you take him off of your lists, That means less I have to bid to win his auctions!
USMC Veteran 1981-1992
Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
do YOU believe the coin is cleaned? do YOU believe it was accurately and fairly represented?
That is the crux of the matter to me.
Also, to have a return policy that is dependent on insurance that is labeled as "not available" is deceitful. I don't care if someone "can" ask the seller a question first.
PoorPoe could have started the thread and I would feel the same way.
Just because some transactions go through well doesn't mean the person isn't a jerk to others, for whatever reasons. Was your coin raw? Were you honestly happy about how it was represented (not the price you paid but the description of the coin compared with the coin). Are you a discerning numismatist?
I am sure that there are coins that I would be "happy" with receiving thinking things were fine whereas Russ, Frank, Coinguy1, K6AZ, Lucybop and others would think was not described correctly because they have more knowledge and experience than I.
So, maybe mirabela has that experience of he doesn't....but, for someone to profess being an ANA member and then act like poe has done and not give a refund (who would receive a coin then clean it and try to return it???) is sad in and of itself.
Like someone else posted....I'm done with the thread.....all you want to do is argue.....go enjoy that with someone else and you can keep buying from poe...he has lost quite a few potential customers here already I would wager.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I must be missing something. If a buyer asked me about insurance after I sold an item on ebay, and I have sold my share, I certainly wouldn't have jumped to that conlusion right away. What gives? It's been my experience that people who go on the defensive right from the start have something to hide.
As a buyer I would want insurance to protect my 170 dollar investment. In June I won a 43P Washington PCGS MS65 that was shipped on 6/14. It never arrived. It was nowhere near $170, but because I paid for insurance, the seller recovered the funds from the post office. The seller happened to be a reputable one and didn't try and accuse medeceiving him. Items lost or stolen while in the hands of the USPS happens all the time as it is discussed here at least once a week. If I was a seller, I would definitely want insurance and delivery confirmation to protect myself
This is a legitimate discussion board where issues like this are discussed frequently. It's a way of educating others and pointing out the "bad eggs". It's not very often that we are blessed to have both sides enter the discussion.
And the alleged ding is there. Look closely at the reverse on the auction photo. If you can't see it, well...
Looking for PCGS AU58 Washington's, 32-63.
He asked about buying insurance after he recieved the emial notifying him that I had already shipped his item. He knew there was no way I could insure a package that had already been shipped!
Good night
Joe!
must be missing something.
Yes "a" ding is there. There are other marks differing between the scans which everyone focusing on the alledged "ding" are missing.
The flag that sends a scam warning is the request for insurance is offered at 4x the rate{flag} and comes many hours after the shipping has been completed.
USMC Veteran 1981-1992
Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
The coins are the same, although his scans are much poorer than your picture. The toning is the same, although seen better in his scan, and the "alleged" nick is there in both pictures and in the same spot. I can take ten different pictures of toned coins with my camera and each will look like a different coin with different lighting.
Looking for PCGS AU58 Washington's, 32-63.
Catfish, your attempts to explain this one away are truly pathetic. Please, just shut up, as a number of us are sick of your inane blathering.
The flag that sends a scam warning is . . .
. . . joining the forum within milliseconds of scamster poe58's exposure.
<< <i>Yes the ding is there. There are other marks differing between the scans which everyone focusing on the alledged "ding" are missing.
Catfish, your attempts to explain this one away are truly pathetic. Please, just shut up, as a number of us are sick of your inane blathering.
The flag that sends a scam warning is . . .
. . . joining the forum within milliseconds of scamster poe58's exposure. >>
Well, that's really a mature thought. Glad you dropped by.
USMC Veteran 1981-1992
Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
If Insurance is desired, please add $1.30 for each Fifty Dollars of value.
The above quote was stated in the auction. He was actually short according to your aution instructions and should have offered you 1.30 X 5 even 5 and a half. Good night all!
Edited: In my late night haze I miscalcuated. 1.30 X 4 would have been correct following your instructions.
Looking for PCGS AU58 Washington's, 32-63.
<< <i>Bikingnut said....
If Insurance is desired, please add $1.30 for each Fifty Dollars of value.
The above quote was stated in the auction. He was actually short according to your aution instructions and should have offered you 1.30 X 5 even 5 and a half. Good night all! >>
You're absolutly right, I missed that. But, it wasn't my auction. It was poe's. Still, it was hours after the shipping was completed.
I just ran through poe58's feedback.... 337 transactions and not a single problem until the last couple of weeks. One guy wanting a refund and keep the coin, and this case. To me that speaks loads in favor of poe58. mirabela are you just a friend of the "wanting a refund and keep the coin guy" trying to retaliate only having it backfire because of mistakes on your part? I guess it could be just a coincidence. But then again it would explain an awful lot.
335 positive transactions with rave remarks. One post in this forum and everyone is ready to hang him from the big oak in the middle of town. I truly don't think mirabela has a case. Everyone who has run to his cause arebailing with a spoon from a sinking ship.
USMC Veteran 1981-1992
Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
I haven't been able to get past this part - you have stated:
<< <i>When you received the notice of shipment and then sent me an email attempting to change the terms after you already knew I had shipped the item >>
<< <i>Having said that, in this case Matt emailed me after he received the notice of shipment from PayPal >>
<< <i>He asked about buying insurance after he recieved the emial notifying him that I had already shipped his item >>
I've paid for a lot of items via PayPal. Not once have I received an email notifying me of shipment. Is this a preference that you can change? Even if PayPal (or you) sent an email notifying him of shipment, how do you know that he got (and/or read) it?
"Exactly."
"What is the seller up to?" would be my first thought and I'd probably avoid the auction.
Mike
Lincoln Wheats (1909 - 1958) Basic Set - Always Interested in Upgrading!
Missed a lot more than that. Why don't you start with an explanation that approaches credibility? Your theory is absurd, the defense ludicrous.
Still, it was hours after the shipping was completed.
"Hours" after shipping was "completed"? How would either party know in such precise detail when "shipping" was "completed" (whatever that means). These are lies, lies and gibberish having no substance whatever. This manure wouldn't pass muster with the O.J. Simpson jury.
But, it wasn't my auction. It was poe's.
Right. Keep on yammering, Janus.
The flag that sends a scam warning is . . .
. . . joining the forum within milliseconds of scamster poe58's exposure. >>
I think there is something wrong with your clock. This thread was active a full day before I joined. Also it was an e-mail forwarded from Mark to me that led me to the google search that revealed this thread. Once I found it I emailed the link to poe58. That is how we got here. So there ya go, it's all Mark's fault that I'm here.
Honestly, is there anyone of you with a seller on your "favorite sellers" list that you'd had many positive transactions with getting hammered UNJUSTLY that wouldn't go and view the threads for yourself? poe58 maintains that he did not sell a cleaned coin. The scans offered in this thread appear to be of different coins than the ones on eBay to me. Based off of my many transactions with poe58 I choose to believe him. In this point could someone point me in the direction where mirabela has any credibility? One of his emails clearly contained 2 textbook examples of feedback extortion in accordance with eBay's definition. One of the statements match word for word with one of eBay's listed examples. mirabela has violated an eBay policy twice and that discredits him. Also as poe58 pointed out it is curious that mirabela's only other negative was for the exact same tactics. That is another damaging point to his credibility in this thread.
On good notes in this thread, some of you have been kind enough to offer suggestions on wording for poe58 and his auctions. That was a very nice gesture and I hope that poe58 takes those suggestions into account. see y'all this evening.... guess I can count on an email box full of this thread.
USMC Veteran 1981-1992
Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
That is because you are full of it.
Once I found it I emailed the link to poe58. That is how we got here. So there ya go, it's all Mark's fault that I'm here.
No, you "got here" because you know the fraud was exposed in damaging fashion, "poe58's" explanation was laughable, and your current defense, such as it is, insults our intelligence.
Thankfully, this fraud's exposure is going to hurt where it counts: the wallet. Concerning the latter, I am ecstatic.
First, have your witness who was with you write a statement. Then take the coin to a reputable dealer and have him write a short statement about the condition and value of the coin.
The auction had PayPal Buyer Protection, so that will be your first step. Here is a link to how to report the situation to PayPal:
PayPal Buyer Protection
Note on this page: "Items purchased on eBay that are significantly different than what was described in the listing."
If PayPal denies your claim, then file a fraud report with eBay here:
eBay Fraud Alert
Ebay's standard buyer protection program covers item's up to $200 with a $25 deductible.
If for some reason your claim is denied by both PayPal and eBay, file a complaint with the ANA. From this guy's auction:
"Please keep in mind that I rely solely on my 25 years of experience to provide you with my honest and accurate opinion of the condition and or grade of the coins I sale. While I am a member of the American Numismatic Association, and I do strive to abide by the Standards set forth by the A.N.A. I am not certified by any coin grading service. The grade, if any, I place in the item description is only My Opinion. I always provide High resolution scans in my auctions. I include all known relevant information in the item description to assist you in making an informed decision as to the condition and or grade of the item."
I realize this is a lot to do for less than $200, but this guy's attitude and his good buddy here really tick me off, and I'm not even the buyer. Go after this guy and don't let him get away with this.
As for the 'taking it to a reputable dealer' piece -- the closest folks with any name recognition are (heaven help me) Littleton Coin (!!!!!) so I'm thinking I might be better sending it to ANACS who will slab it with appropriate notation & a net grade. I wonder what folks' thoughts about that are? I thought about PCI because they're fast & cheap, but they'd probably give it an inflated grade, wouldn't they?
Joe.
<< <i>you made so many mistakes you deserve the coin. >>
And, I guess you don't make mistakes!..
Why stick someone with a coin they don't want? It doesn't make sense, at least if you are in business for the long term. If the return was accepted politely mirabela might have bid on another item. As it stands now several of us have added Poe to our blocked bidders list and won't bid on his items.
BTW, I think it's pretty easy for CU to get their ISP to track the source route, IP and MAC addrs of both Poe and Catfish to aid in the hunting down of fraudulent conduct. I wouldn't ask CU to do this over regular shills/trolls who behave like jerks. In this case, they'd be aiding a real criminal activity, and win brownie points too!
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
<< <i>Catfish: Poe says he is a member of the ANA. If I read the ANA's code of ethics properly Poe needs to accept returns.
Why stick someone with a coin they don't want? It doesn't make sense, at least if you are in business for the long term. If the return was accepted politely mirabela might have bid on another item. As it stands now several of us have added Poe to our blocked bidders list and won't bid on his items. >>
I am not a member of the ANA, so I can't speak to that. poe58 says he is a member of the ANA and since that is their code then Yes he is obligated to comply to ANA standards. Under eBay's rules and under this particular contract he is not. That is for him to decide.
As I have stated, I would have refunded mirabela just to shut him up. To me it is obvious that poe58 feels that mirabela attempted to scam him from the start and has acted as he has under that belief. Perhaps based on the seemingly same circumstance as mirabela's prior negative feedback having the same profile. Is Poe right? This is the US and it is a free country and he can choose to act as he pleases. I gave 11 years in the Marines to assure everyone that right.
I've seen accusations about virus infected emails I would like to see that proven here since it has been accused here. Those accusing may send the encapsulated email and headers directly to catfish172@elvis.com if they wish. It will have to be encapsulated or bellsouth will delete it before it gets to me. I also would request that mirabela rescan the "suspect" coin at 400 dpi as it was originally in the eBay auction for an "Apples to Apples" comparison. His 1200 dpi scan shows many differences than the 400 dpi one and that is what keeps me thinking it is a different coin. I'm not talking about the toning as that is a matter of lighting. The single ding referenced doesn't prove "without a doubt" that it is the same coin as the ding in the 1200 dpi scan looks different and could have been done with a jewelers screwdriver.
All of this could have been avoided altogether had mirabela followed his instincts and not bid in the first place when he felt the return policy was "odd". He also could've paid and requested the insurance in the shipping portion of the invoice and requested it in the message space provided by Paypal.
Poe58 knowing that his turblister software is flawed should take the extra steps necessary to allow for the insurance, however the automated insurance option defaults to $1.30. The actual amount of insurance cannot be determined until the auction ends for items selling over $50. I think if he's going to require insurance in order to allow returns he should make it mandatory and add it to the shipping in his invoice before he sends it out. I think I have mentioned that to him directly before. The case mirabela has laid out is severely flawed and full of "big talk", includes blatant violations of ebay policies, and just isn't adding up. His scans appear different, he's accused Poe58 of sending a virus without offering proof and all of these are tactics used by buyers who scam. They are also blatantly unethical practices. Were he sincere in his efforts the hardball bullying email would not be necessary.
USMC Veteran 1981-1992
Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
<< <i>Gee, is it any wonder that Poe/Catfish stopped posting after Mirabela posted that he initiated contact with the authorities?
BTW, I think it's pretty easy for CU to get their ISP to track the source route, IP and MAC addrs of both Poe and Catfish to aid in the hunting down of fraudulent conduct. I wouldn't ask CU to do this over regular shills/trolls who behave like jerks. In this case, they'd be aiding a real criminal activity, and win brownie points too!
EVP >>
My IP is 68.209.224.17, ping it, traceroute it, DOS it, do as you wish, I have an autoblacklister running. You will see it traces out to adsl.mem.bellsouth.net. While I am in Mississippi, Bellsouth is routed via Memphis, TN.
It's also hard to post when you're out working for a living. I'm a pipefitter journeyman and I work, Poe has stated he is retired. I don't believe mirabela has initiiated contact if he has they are very slow. Of course he has never received an email from me so what do I have to fear from him.
USMC Veteran 1981-1992
Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
First, you're in error about the stated insurance charges -- and even used that to attack the buyer. Oh, You're absolutely right, I missed that, you wrote. Now you're also in error about the ANA rules. Worse still, the postmark confirms the "shipping" ruse you championed also is a lie.
Truth is, you know nothing about the facts. Should have shut your mouth yesterday, as I advised you. Now that your "theory" has been exploded by the hard facts, it will be good fun indeed to watch you further embarrass yourself.
Mirabela, get those pics up. I'll host them for you, if you wish, so make them nice and big -- turn the jpeg compression down to zero.
<< <i>I am not a member of the ANA, so I can't speak to that. poe58 says he is a member of the ANA and since that is their code then Yes he is obligated to comply to ANA standards. Under eBay's rules and under this particular contract he is not. That is for him to decide.
First, you're in error about the stated insurance charges -- and even used that to attack the buyer. Oh, You're absolutely right, I missed that, you wrote. Now you're also in error about the ANA rules. Worse still, the postmark confirms the "shipping" ruse you championed also is a lie.
Truth is, you know nothing about the facts. Should have shut your mouth yesterday, as I advised you. Now that your "theory" has been exploded by the hard facts, it will be good fun indeed to watch you further embarrass yourself.
Mirabela, get those pics up. I'll host them for you, if you wish, so make them nice and big -- turn the jpeg compression down to zero. >>
I am not poe58.
USMC Veteran 1981-1992
Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
<< <i>
My IP is 68.209.224.17, ping it, traceroute it, DOS it, do as you wish, I have an autoblacklister running. You will see it traces out to adsl.mem.bellsouth.net. While I am in Mississippi, Bellsouth is routed via Memphis, TN.
It's also hard to post when you're out working for a living. I'm a pipefitter journeyman and I work, Poe has stated he is retired. I don't believe mirabela has initiiated contact if he has they are very slow. Of course he has never received an email from me so what do I have to fear from him. >>
What was the point of giving us your IP address, and then telling us you have a blacklister (that will effectivly block a complete tracert on the given IP), that will only rout to as far as Hollywood, FLA? I can tracert IP's to NY that route through California, so telling us that it routs through Memphis TN is useless.
Oh, and there is such a thing called an anon-proxy, which could effectivly mask your real IP with a "fake" one.
<< <i>
<< <i>
My IP is 68.209.224.17, ping it, traceroute it, DOS it, do as you wish, I have an autoblacklister running. You will see it traces out to adsl.mem.bellsouth.net. While I am in Mississippi, Bellsouth is routed via Memphis, TN.
It's also hard to post when you're out working for a living. I'm a pipefitter journeyman and I work, Poe has stated he is retired. I don't believe mirabela has initiiated contact if he has they are very slow. Of course he has never received an email from me so what do I have to fear from him. >>
What was the point of giving us your IP address, and then telling us you have a blacklister (that will effectivly block a complete tracert on the given IP), that will only rout to as far as Hollywood, FLA? I can tracert IP's to NY that route through California, so telling us that it routs through Memphis TN is useless.
Oh, and there is such a thing called an anon-proxy, which could effectivly mask your real IP with a "fake" one.
Would you like my street address?
USMC Veteran 1981-1992
Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
<< <i>
<< <i>
What was the point of giving us your IP address, and then telling us you have a blacklister (that will effectivly block a complete tracert on the given IP), that will only rout to as far as Hollywood, FLA? I can tracert IP's to NY that route through California, so telling us that it routs through Memphis TN is useless.
>>
I assure you that ip is mine and is in Horn Lake, Mississippi not Hollywood, FL. My blacklister doesn't block tracert or pings it merely detects things like code red, blaster and DOS attacks and blacklists the IP it and the log entries are also forwarded to public blacklist agencies {Spamhaus.org for one} so if you attempt such activity you will not only get blocked from me but other IP's as well.
USMC Veteran 1981-1992
Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
BTW, I checked the ANA bylaws, and if this guy is really a member, this single offense is enough to get him thrown out. It will cost me $75 to raise the complaint, and I've got 90 days to do it, so I'll see how other avenues pan out first.
Here, anyhow, are the expanded headers:
EXPANDED HEADERS OF EMAIL CONTAINING BEAGLE VIRUS
X-Symantec-TimeoutProtection: 0
X-Symantec-TimeoutProtection: 1
X-Symantec-TimeoutProtection: 2
Return-Path: <Poe12958@charter.net>
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Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 09:00:22 -0800
To: mirabela@sover.net
Subject: Re: Yahoo!
From: Poe12958@charter.net
Message-ID: <gjyturpfqcmijcurktb@sover.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
boundary="--------hvqifgxccnrxipbtswhm"
X-DCC-xmailer-Metrics: lincoln.sover.net 1173; bulk Body=5 Fuz1=5 Fuz2=many
X-Scanned-By: SoVerNet, Inc.
X-Spam-Milter-Report: Content analysis details: (2.8 points, 5.0 required)
0.2 NO_REAL_NAME From: does not include a real name
1.0 FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS From: ends in numbers
0.3 MIME_HTML_ONLY BODY: Message only has text/html MIME parts
0.1 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message
1.2 HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_02 BODY: HTML: images with 0-200 bytes of words
X-Spam-Milter-Score: **
X-Spam-Milter-Status: No, hits=2.804 required=5 l=0 f=2 st=1 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_02,HTML_MESSAGE,MIME_HTML_ONLY,NO_REAL_NAME
Status:
EXPANDED HEADERS OF EMAIL CONTAINING OTHER (IP SPOOF) VIRUS:
X-Symantec-TimeoutProtection: 0
X-Symantec-TimeoutProtection: 1
Return-Path: <Poe12958@charter.net>
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Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 09:00:22 -0800
To: mirabela@sover.net
Subject: Email report
From: support@sover.net
Message-ID: <higlxylrorffavcgmfy@sover.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
boundary="--------berqrqfokwhgylactkem"
X-DCC-SoVerNet-Metrics: stratton.sover.net 1173; bulk Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=many
X-Scanned-By: SoVerNet, Inc.
X-Spam-Milter-Report: Content analysis details: (1.6 points, 5.0 required)
0.2 NO_REAL_NAME From: does not include a real name
0.3 MIME_HTML_ONLY BODY: Message only has text/html MIME parts
0.1 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message
1.0 HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04 BODY: HTML: images with 200-400 bytes of words
X-Spam-Milter-Score: *
X-Spam-Milter-Status: No, hits=1.581 required=5 l=75 f=2 st=1 tests=HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04,HTML_MESSAGE,MIME_HTML_ONLY,NO_REAL_NAME
Status:
Payment Sent (ID #4D584016V36812317)
Name:
United States Postal Service
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Amount:
-$0.73 USD
Fee Amount:
-$0.20 USD
Net Amount:
-$0.93 USD
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Jul. 29, 2004
Time:
11:01:14 PDT
Status:
Completed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Funding Type:
PayPal Funds
Funding Source:
$0.93 USD - PayPal Account
Carrier:
US Postal Service
Method:
First Class Mail
Package Type:
Package/Thick Envelope
Mailing Date:
Jul. 29, 2004
Ship From:
Status: Confirmed Residential address
Tracking Number:
9101128882300065609902 Track Package
Payment Transaction:
This shipping label has a related payment transaction. For further details, please see transaction 0LK30266GA7478719
Shipping Date:
Jul. 29, 2004 11:01:14 PDT
Shipping Status:
Shipped
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As for the Virus thing. I knew you weren't all there!
"Sellers agree to promptly refund the purchase price for any item that has been deemed by the ANA as other than as offered or described by the seller."
Use the process and let the ANA decide.
WH
Popcorn anyone?
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Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 09:00:22 -0800
To: mirabela@sover.net
Subject: Re: Yahoo!
From: Poe12958@charter.net
Since you can't do apples for apples on the scans. I'll drop that request and will not refer to them any longer. I appreciate you offering resolutions available to you.
Someone will have to help me on the headers. These headers appear that although the Return-Path and From: headers say poe12958@charter.net, Received: from is from a computer whose netbios name is paul-nkiocz88xc.net on a DSL connection at ip 4.3.8.181 and isn't from the ip's owned by charter cable. These do not appear to have come from Joe, but rather from a guy most likely named "Paul"
USMC Veteran 1981-1992
Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
I can't be Poe he is in Belpre, OH. I am in Horn Lake, Mississippi I use Linux and he is doomed to a Bill Gates OS which in my opinion is barely suitable for gaming when it doesn't crash. Let's see the headers you received since you jumped on the Virus bandwagon. Maybe Paul is your friend, too.
USMC Veteran 1981-1992
Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
Based off of the nature of dsl's pppoe authentication the perp's name could possibly be Paul lsanca.
USMC Veteran 1981-1992
Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
Scans are on their way to sequitur in 300 and 1200 dpi, although I may need instructions on how to disable jpg compression as it seems my machine wanted to shrink them to send them anyhow. The 1200 dpi files are about 5.5 megs each, definitely big enough to establish this as the same coin, and definitely big enough to establish it as mercilessly scrubbed.
By now, my sense of it is something like this -- I'll probably get my money back, but at the cost of at least as much money since the ANACS fee will cost, as will the ANA complaint proceeding. Maybe poe can be shut down on ebay, probably not. We all know he can reopen under another name, PO box, email address or what have you in a heartbeat. At least we know what to look for in an auction listing. He has, along with posting my address (note -- all coins are in a safe deposit box
The scans, when posted, I think will enable anybody who remains in doubt to establish at the very least these things: this is the coin poe sold, and it has been cleaned. Beyond that, there isn't much to the case regarding the coin.
<< <i>OK, let's see... I'll give catfish the benefit of the doubt. Catfish, the two emails from Poe are on their way to you. Would you like to see the exchange between sovernet support and me regarding them? That IP belongs to a company called level3 communications, headquartered in Colorado. They sell tons of broadband space to local providers, including charter.net. Charter doesn't have any way to contact someone directly unless you already are a customer or live in their service area (I don't) so my AUP violation procedure had to initiate with level3. I spoke with them this morning in person as well as by email, and that proceding is underway.
>>
I don't need them the headers you posted were sufficent to disprove they were not from Poe. I think you'll find that the virus originated from a Paul Lsanca I do not know if he did so knowingly or unknowingly. He is most likely located in Argentina or possibly Arkansas.
USMC Veteran 1981-1992
Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
<< <i>Fascinating. Any insight into why they would arrive right in the middle of a post-transaction dispute, containing the name (or handle) of the person with whom I'm having the dispute? I have no reason to try and defame this fellow this way; the pics & his correspondence & subsequent comments do a wonderful job of defamation. And anyway, all I want is my money back and for anyone whose attention I can call to this seller's MO to know about it. In any case, if the emails didn't come from him I'm sure the techie folks at his ISP will know it and leave him alone. So will the law. >>
Yes, email headers can be tricked to pull from and reply headers out of ones own address book. An indicator in this case that some of the virus got through at least the part that performed said behaviour.
USMC Veteran 1981-1992
Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.