@124Spider said:
While still remembering the cluster-f**k that was the introduction of the modern Peace and Morgan dollars in 2021, I have to give the Mint kudos for getting it right this year. Having them available for subscription, and then selling out one day after they go on sale, gave everyone who really cares a chance to buy, but puts all the profit where it belongs--with the Mint (not with flippers).
That remains to be seen. Holidays are here...keep an eye on Ebay completed auctions for true aftermarket values.😉
Sealed box of 3 sold for $720 today.
After fees and shipping not much profit.🤔
$100 is 100 bucks.
It's a 30% premium over issue.
Please explain your math. 🤔
I will explain mine. $720 ×13% fees= ($93.60).
$720- $93.60- $555 cost= $71.40
$71.40 - $10 shipping fee= $61.40
@124Spider said:
While still remembering the cluster-f**k that was the introduction of the modern Peace and Morgan dollars in 2021, I have to give the Mint kudos for getting it right this year. Having them available for subscription, and then selling out one day after they go on sale, gave everyone who really cares a chance to buy, but puts all the profit where it belongs--with the Mint (not with flippers).
That remains to be seen. Holidays are here...keep an eye on Ebay completed auctions for true aftermarket values.😉
To clarify, I don't mind if flippers make a bit of money; what I thought was absurd in 2021 was that the Mint either charged way, way too little, or made way too few of them. The result was that collectors were horribly inconvenienced (or shut out altogether), and flippers had a field day.
This year, everyone who wanted one had plenty of opportunity to get one at the Mint's price, and there may be some folks who are happy to pay a premium to buy from a high-volume dealer. Everyone's happy!
@Cranium_Basher73 said:
My 2 sets come in on Tuesday. Currently in Dallas.
I'm curious about this.
Mine were shipped from Irving, Texas (near Dallas). Presumably, they were struck in San Francisco; it seems odd to me to truck them from San Francisco to Dallas, and then send them out (many to places much closer to San Francisco than to Dallas).
@124Spider said:
While still remembering the cluster-f**k that was the introduction of the modern Peace and Morgan dollars in 2021, I have to give the Mint kudos for getting it right this year. Having them available for subscription, and then selling out one day after they go on sale, gave everyone who really cares a chance to buy, but puts all the profit where it belongs--with the Mint (not with flippers).
That remains to be seen. Holidays are here...keep an eye on Ebay completed auctions for true aftermarket values.😉
Sealed box of 3 sold for $720 today.
After fees and shipping not much profit.🤔
$100 is 100 bucks.
It's a 30% premium over issue.
Please explain your math. 🤔
I will explain mine. $720 ×13% fees= ($93.60).
$720- $93.60- $555 cost= $71.40
$71.40 - $10 shipping fee= $61.40
$61.40 ÷ $555 = 11% return
No where near your 30% claim🤔
9% fees if you have an ebay store. [I actually pay 8.1% with TRS, but use 9%]. That's $65 in fees. Use your $10 shipping. That's net $90.
Originally, i rounded using my 10% total cost estimate.
The 30% I was referring to is the gross premium over cost 100× 720/555=129.7%. For people trying to trash these sets, that's the number I would point to as you don't have to sell them on ebay. A 30% premium, though that was only one sale, would be about the best one would hope for today.
@Cranium_Basher73 said:
My 2 sets come in on Tuesday. Currently in Dallas.
I'm curious about this.
Mine were shipped from Irving, Texas (near Dallas). Presumably, they were struck in San Francisco; it seems odd to me to truck them from San Francisco to Dallas, and then send them out (many to places much closer to San Francisco than to Dallas).
Most of them come from Memphis or Dallas. The Mint doesn't ship them, their fulfillment contractor does that.
@Cranium_Basher73 said:
My 2 sets come in on Tuesday. Currently in Dallas.
I'm curious about this.
Mine were shipped from Irving, Texas (near Dallas). Presumably, they were struck in San Francisco; it seems odd to me to truck them from San Francisco to Dallas, and then send them out (many to places much closer to San Francisco than to Dallas).
Most of them come from Memphis or Dallas. The Mint doesn't ship them, their fulfillment contractor does that.
Thanks!
I understand the concept of paying someone else to fulfill; my confusion is around the fact that the coins were create in San Francisco, but mine is shipped from Dallas. Presumably, someone carted hundreds of thousands of coins from San Francisco to Dallas and/or Memphis. I'm having difficulty understanding why that makes more sense than shipping from San Francisco....
@Cranium_Basher73 said:
My 2 sets come in on Tuesday. Currently in Dallas.
I'm curious about this.
Mine were shipped from Irving, Texas (near Dallas). Presumably, they were struck in San Francisco; it seems odd to me to truck them from San Francisco to Dallas, and then send them out (many to places much closer to San Francisco than to Dallas).
Most of them come from Memphis or Dallas. The Mint doesn't ship them, their fulfillment contractor does that.
Thanks!
I understand the concept of paying someone else to fulfill; my confusion is around the fact that the coins were create in San Francisco, but mine is shipped from Dallas. Presumably, someone carted hundreds of thousands of coins from San Francisco to Dallas and/or Memphis. I'm having difficulty understanding why that makes more sense than shipping from San Francisco....
It's wherever the contractor is located. I assume they were the low bidder, even with the trans-shipping. It's just one truckload, probably of multiple issues not just these coins. Everything goes through the fulfillment contractor. It used to be just Memphis. The Dallas site popped up in the last year or so.
They also distribute P, D and W. So, San Francisco would not be closer to all 4 mints.
@Goldbully said:
All in all, the Mint sold on or about 250,000 sets of expensive silver RP sets in a relatively short period of time. That is quite an accomplishment.
I can see the mintage skyrocketing for the 2024 version....hope I'm wrong.
What do you guys think about next year?
I hope (but don't have a lot of faith in the concept) that the Mint realizes that they got it perfect this year, and doesn't make huge changes.
@goldbuffalo said:
If HH is 5,how did dealers get so many? Because my eBay preorder graded already shipped. So they already had them early and they had more than 5.
What did I miss?
ABPP allows high volume buyers to pick up the coins 3 days before release.
They also could have picked some up in Baltimore yesterday.
I keep saying it, and you keep ignoring me. They had them WAY more than 3 days in advance.
It's why the prices went as low as they did, as much in advance as they did. No one is shipping anything picked up in Baltimore yesterday, because no one offered onsite grading in Baltimore.
You can deny the obvious as much as you want, because the president of a TPG is not going to provide you a confirmation, and you won't see a reference on the Mint website to what is going on. But no Big Boy was speculating by offering RP 70 sets for ~$350 a month ago, and no magic resulted in sets going from the Mint to a dealer to a TPG to dealer to a customer in 3 days.
@goldbuffalo said:
If HH is 5,how did dealers get so many? Because my eBay preorder graded already shipped. So they already had them early and they had more than 5.
What did I miss?
ABPP allows high volume buyers to pick up the coins 3 days before release.
They also could have picked some up in Baltimore yesterday.
I keep saying it, and you keep ignoring me. They had them WAY more than 3 days in advance.
It's why the prices went as low as they did, as much in advance as they did. No one is shipping anything picked up in Baltimore yesterday, because no one offered onsite grading in Baltimore.
You can deny the obvious as much as you want, because the president of a TPG is not going to provide you a confirmation, and you won't see a reference on the Mint website to what is going on. But no Big Boy was speculating by offering RP 70 sets for ~$350 a month ago, and no magic resulted in sets going from the Mint to a dealer to a TPG to dealer to a customer in 3 days.
And yet we've seen no such proof from you or anyone else. But keep saying it. We posted the Mint terms. They day 3 days. I'm going to continue to believe them.
You could also go on ebay where all the slabs I see still say "pre-sale" and not "in hand".
But there is no law that says you need facts to support your posts... which is a good thing.
@Cranium_Basher73 said:
My 2 sets come in on Tuesday. Currently in Dallas.
I'm curious about this.
Mine were shipped from Irving, Texas (near Dallas). Presumably, they were struck in San Francisco; it seems odd to me to truck them from San Francisco to Dallas, and then send them out (many to places much closer to San Francisco than to Dallas).
Most of them come from Memphis or Dallas. The Mint doesn't ship them, their fulfillment contractor does that.
Thanks!
I understand the concept of paying someone else to fulfill; my confusion is around the fact that the coins were create in San Francisco, but mine is shipped from Dallas. Presumably, someone carted hundreds of thousands of coins from San Francisco to Dallas and/or Memphis. I'm having difficulty understanding why that makes more sense than shipping from San Francisco....
Because they don't do order fulfillment at any Mint. Even if you are buying from a Mint store literally located in the lobby of a Mint, coins are manufactured at a Mint and then shipped to a fulfillment center (apparently Dallas and/or Memphis) for packaging, order processing and shipping. Likely even to the Mint stores.
While it might seem counterintuitive, this is a far more efficient way to distribute hundreds of thousands of anything versus fulfilling individual orders at the factory.
@Cranium_Basher73 said:
My 2 sets come in on Tuesday. Currently in Dallas.
I'm curious about this.
Mine were shipped from Irving, Texas (near Dallas). Presumably, they were struck in San Francisco; it seems odd to me to truck them from San Francisco to Dallas, and then send them out (many to places much closer to San Francisco than to Dallas).
Most of them come from Memphis or Dallas. The Mint doesn't ship them, their fulfillment contractor does that.
Thanks!
I understand the concept of paying someone else to fulfill; my confusion is around the fact that the coins were create in San Francisco, but mine is shipped from Dallas. Presumably, someone carted hundreds of thousands of coins from San Francisco to Dallas and/or Memphis. I'm having difficulty understanding why that makes more sense than shipping from San Francisco....
Because they don't do order fulfillment at any Mint. Even if you are buying from a Mint store literally located in the lobby of a Mint, coins are manufactured at a Mint and then shipped to a fulfillment center (apparently Dallas and/or Memphis) for packaging, order processing and shipping. Likely even to the Mint stores.
While it might seem counterintuitive, this is a far more efficient way to distribute hundreds of thousand of anything versus fulfilling individual orders at the factory.
@Goldbully said:
All in all, the Mint sold on or about 250,000 sets of expensive silver RP sets in a relatively short period of time. That is quite an accomplishment.
I can see the mintage skyrocketing for the 2024 version....hope I'm wrong.
What do you guys think about next year?
I think there is no reason to increase the mintage. 400K proofs did not sell out. 275K uncs did. 250K appears to be the right number for these.
Again, anyone who wanted to had the chance to get up to 5, and they did not sell out before HHLs were lifted. Big Boys got what they needed, as evidenced by the fact that they are selling quantity in RP 70 for around 2x issue price.
The goal is to meet demand and maximize profit, while making something people want that hopefully retains its value. The Mint hit each of these metrics. They moved 500K units containing around $20 worth of silver for $92.50 each.
No reason to change a thing. Yesterday a lot of people thought these were going to be losers, because subscriptions did not sell out, they did not sell out while the HHL was in place, and because they are going to be sold next year. Now, a few hours after a sell out on Day 2, there is speculation that the Mint is going to kill these by overproducing next year.
Maybe give them a little credit for finally figuring things out. How many to make as well as how to distribute. The only thing they did wrong was overproduce the proofs. I trust they will fix that next year, and make adjustments going forward as the market dictates.
The market right now says 250K is the right number at $185 per set. If they want to get greedy, they can raise the price and lower the mintage. Or do the opposite if they want to sell more at a lower price, if some financial analyst can create a model that shows they will make more money selling more at a lower price point. Which will only help the 2023s, but I just don't see it happening.
Based on everything we have seen this year, if the mintage "skyrockets" next year at $185 because these sold out when the HHL was lifted, they'll have a lot of unsold inventory on their hands, and the naysayers here will do their happy dance. If I can see this, I'm pretty sure the Mint can as well.
@goldbuffalo said:
If HH is 5,how did dealers get so many? Because my eBay preorder graded already shipped. So they already had them early and they had more than 5.
What did I miss?
ABPP allows high volume buyers to pick up the coins 3 days before release.
They also could have picked some up in Baltimore yesterday.
I keep saying it, and you keep ignoring me. They had them WAY more than 3 days in advance.
It's why the prices went as low as they did, as much in advance as they did. No one is shipping anything picked up in Baltimore yesterday, because no one offered onsite grading in Baltimore.
You can deny the obvious as much as you want, because the president of a TPG is not going to provide you a confirmation, and you won't see a reference on the Mint website to what is going on. But no Big Boy was speculating by offering RP 70 sets for ~$350 a month ago, and no magic resulted in sets going from the Mint to a dealer to a TPG to dealer to a customer in 3 days.
And yet we've seen no such proof from you or anyone else. But keep saying it. We posted the Mint terms. They day 3 days. I'm going to continue to believe them.
You could also go on ebay where all the slabs I see still say "pre-sale" and not "in hand".
But there is no law that says you need facts to support your posts... which is a good thing.
Yes. My proof is only in what I have observed, including now graded coins being shipped today, a mere 4 days after you say was the earliest any Big Boy can possibly have come into possession of them. And these are not even Advance Release coins, are they? If not, please explain the logistics to a simple mind like mine.
Between you and my lying eyes, I'm going with my eyes. The fact that they were priced a month ago tells me a meaningful sample was graded a month ago. You can believe whatever you want.
@Mediocrates007 said:
My set showed up today, I like them but it’s a challenge to photograph.
By far the best looking of all the "new" Morgan & Peace issues from the mint. These do justice to the original designs.
Can I ask you a question, does that S mint mark on your which I assume was shipped, look frosted like in your picture? My S on mine looks shinny on my Bmore pick up. But I sure it could be photography differences
@Goldbully said:
All in all, the Mint sold on or about 250,000 sets of expensive silver RP sets in a relatively short period of time. That is quite an accomplishment.
I can see the mintage skyrocketing for the 2024 version....hope I'm wrong.
What do you guys think about next year?
If the mintage is the same or more, I think I'm out. If the mintage is under 200k, I'll probably pick up a set or two.
@Goldbully said:
All in all, the Mint sold on or about 250,000 sets of expensive silver RP sets in a relatively short period of time. That is quite an accomplishment.
I can see the mintage skyrocketing for the 2024 version....hope I'm wrong.
What do you guys think about next year?
If the mintage is the same or more, I think I'm out. If the mintage is under 200k, I'll probably pick up a set or two.
Yeah, that's also unrealistic. The Mint has shown they are serious about capturing the lion's share of the value they create. If you are holding your breath waiting for home runs, you are going to suffocate.
Given what they have been doing with pricing and mintages, if they made under 200K, you wouldn't like the price and also would be out. And, they have shown no interest in going down that path.
They very clearly want to make enough to satisfy demand, while also pricing them so as to capture what the market values the mintage at. Accordingly, if they did make less than 200K, they'd probably price them at around $200 each coin, or $400 for the set, and you'd scream about that, because it would also kill the flip. But, again, that's not their game -- creating artificial rarities and pricing regular collectors out.
They will very likely make another 250K, and will likely have no problem selling all of them, even without your set or two.
@Mediocrates007 said:
My set showed up today, I like them but it’s a challenge to photograph.
By far the best looking of all the "new" Morgan & Peace issues from the mint. These do justice to the original designs.
Can I ask you a question, does that S mint mark on your which I assume was shipped, look frosted like in your picture? My S on mine looks shinny on my Bmore pick up. But I sure it could be photography differences
Just a difference in the way it was photographed. Difficult to shoot these and not lose all the shadow detail when you’re perpendicular to the coin as the devices are all reflective.
@124Spider said:
While still remembering the cluster-f**k that was the introduction of the modern Peace and Morgan dollars in 2021, I have to give the Mint kudos for getting it right this year. Having them available for subscription, and then selling out one day after they go on sale, gave everyone who really cares a chance to buy, but puts all the profit where it belongs--with the Mint (not with flippers).
That remains to be seen. Holidays are here...keep an eye on Ebay completed auctions for true aftermarket values.😉
Sealed box of 3 sold for $720 today.
After fees and shipping not much profit.🤔
$100 is 100 bucks.
It's a 30% premium over issue.
Please explain your math. 🤔
I will explain mine. $720 ×13% fees= ($93.60).
$720- $93.60- $555 cost= $71.40
$71.40 - $10 shipping fee= $61.40
$61.40 ÷ $555 = 11% return
No where near your 30% claim🤔
9% fees if you have an ebay store. [I actually pay 8.1% with TRS, but use 9%]. That's $65 in fees. Use your $10 shipping. That's net $90.
Originally, i rounded using my 10% total cost estimate.
The 30% I was referring to is the gross premium over cost 100× 720/555=129.7%. For people trying to trash these sets, that's the number I would point to as you don't have to sell them on ebay. A 30% premium, though that was only one sale, would be about the best one would hope for today.
Well the seller does not have an Ebay store so he has to pay the 13% fee like most Ebay sellers
@goldbuffalo said:
If HH is 5,how did dealers get so many? Because my eBay preorder graded already shipped. So they already had them early and they had more than 5.
What did I miss?
ABPP allows high volume buyers to pick up the coins 3 days before release.
They also could have picked some up in Baltimore yesterday.
I keep saying it, and you keep ignoring me. They had them WAY more than 3 days in advance.
It's why the prices went as low as they did, as much in advance as they did. No one is shipping anything picked up in Baltimore yesterday, because no one offered onsite grading in Baltimore.
You can deny the obvious as much as you want, because the president of a TPG is not going to provide you a confirmation, and you won't see a reference on the Mint website to what is going on. But no Big Boy was speculating by offering RP 70 sets for ~$350 a month ago, and no magic resulted in sets going from the Mint to a dealer to a TPG to dealer to a customer in 3 days.
And yet we've seen no such proof from you or anyone else. But keep saying it. We posted the Mint terms. They day 3 days. I'm going to continue to believe them.
You could also go on ebay where all the slabs I see still say "pre-sale" and not "in hand".
But there is no law that says you need facts to support your posts... which is a good thing.
Yes. My proof is only in what I have observed, including now graded coins being shipped today, a mere 4 days after you say was the earliest any Big Boy can possibly have come into possession of them. And these are not even Advance Release coins, are they? If not, please explain the logistics to a simple mind like mine.
Between you and my lying eyes, I'm going with my eyes. The fact that they were priced a month ago tells me a meaningful sample was graded a month ago. You can believe whatever you want.
@124Spider said:
While still remembering the cluster-f**k that was the introduction of the modern Peace and Morgan dollars in 2021, I have to give the Mint kudos for getting it right this year. Having them available for subscription, and then selling out one day after they go on sale, gave everyone who really cares a chance to buy, but puts all the profit where it belongs--with the Mint (not with flippers).
That remains to be seen. Holidays are here...keep an eye on Ebay completed auctions for true aftermarket values.😉
Sealed box of 3 sold for $720 today.
After fees and shipping not much profit.🤔
$100 is 100 bucks.
It's a 30% premium over issue.
Please explain your math. 🤔
I will explain mine. $720 ×13% fees= ($93.60).
$720- $93.60- $555 cost= $71.40
$71.40 - $10 shipping fee= $61.40
$61.40 ÷ $555 = 11% return
No where near your 30% claim🤔
9% fees if you have an ebay store. [I actually pay 8.1% with TRS, but use 9%]. That's $65 in fees. Use your $10 shipping. That's net $90.
Originally, i rounded using my 10% total cost estimate.
The 30% I was referring to is the gross premium over cost 100× 720/555=129.7%. For people trying to trash these sets, that's the number I would point to as you don't have to sell them on ebay. A 30% premium, though that was only one sale, would be about the best one would hope for today.
Well the seller does not have an Ebay store so he has to pay the 13% fee like most Ebay sellers
My concern is my yield. If the price is 720, the price is 720. [Again, I'm not sure it is off one comp. ] At that number, this is a very good flip.
@Goldbully said:
All in all, the Mint sold on or about 250,000 sets of expensive silver RP sets in a relatively short period of time. That is quite an accomplishment.
I can see the mintage skyrocketing for the 2024 version....hope I'm wrong.
What do you guys think about next year?
I think they are potentially developing a future glut of Morgan/Peace iterations. Driving stagnant future pricing will not obviously keep pace with inflation. How does that entice future buyers/collectors?
Which will be sad as they are the one and only US Mint, with a chance to develop future numismatists and those that would appreciate the scarcity and future perceived value along with the beauty and craftsmanship. US Mint has to hang their hat on those attributes as historical significance is not in play.
Producing yearly uncs is OK but all these yearly proofs and rp's is too much "stuff" IMO.
I actually ordered 13 sets . 5 through my account, and 8 through my friends' accounts. So I have 2 sealed boxes of 5 sets each with UPS tracking papers on them showing that label was created November 6th (so I'm planning to keep them that way and not opening them).
The other 3 sets I'm planning to send for grading later on.
I'm happy with my decision for those many sets as I'm a collector of "1st year of issue".
@Goldbully said:
All in all, the Mint sold on or about 250,000 sets of expensive silver RP sets in a relatively short period of time. That is quite an accomplishment.
I can see the mintage skyrocketing for the 2024 version....hope I'm wrong.
What do you guys think about next year?
I think they are potentially developing a future glut of Morgan/Peace iterations. Driving stagnant future pricing will not obviously keep pace with inflation. How does that entice future buyers/collectors?
Which will be sad as they are the one and only US Mint, with a chance to develop future numismatists and those that would appreciate the scarcity and future perceived value along with the beauty and craftsmanship. US Mint has to hang their hat on those attributes as historical significance is not in play.
Producing yearly uncs is OK but all these yearly proofs and rp's is too much "stuff" IMO.
You might be correct, but creating future rarities, to more than keep pace with inflation and to enhance your investment portfolio really isn't part of their mandate. They are a mass market manufacturer producing product to meet a mass market demand. Canada and Australia seem to have plenty of 5K mintage issues if you are looking for something more limited in nature.
If that does not entice future buyers/collectors, so be it. Their goal is to meet today's demand, at a price that captures what the market dictates, while providing room for their Big Boy partners to also make money by selling TPG slabs at prices the rest of us cannot beat.
If demand wanes in the future, they will either adjust mintages to match reduced demand, or they will kill the value of the product. But, today, they can easily sell 250K sets at $185 price, so that's what they are doing.
As I suggested in another post, if they sold half as many at 4x the price, you'd be complaining about them gouging. When they sold a fraction of what the market would support at a fraction of where the market valued the items, we all complained about website crashes and the inability to just get one for our collections. They are certainly not going back to that.
If the only reason anyone is interested is to flip, or in anticipation of future riches by getting to access to artificial rarities everyone wants but few can actually get at issue price, they should probably look to Ultra Breaks or Air Jordans. The model here now seems to be to allow people to easily get what they want, at a price far in excess of intrinsic value and far below what the market would bear if they were more difficult to obtain.
The Mint is a US government agency, that should be serving all Americans. Not a select few insiders, by creating artificial rarities that people can easily flip or hold for future appreciation, without taking any real risk or even needing to know anything about anything. The US Treasury also sells debt instruments, each and every week, for people who want to make investments with the US government.
@Cranium_Basher73 said:
My 2 sets come in on Tuesday. Currently in Dallas.
I'm curious about this.
Mine were shipped from Irving, Texas (near Dallas). Presumably, they were struck in San Francisco; it seems odd to me to truck them from San Francisco to Dallas, and then send them out (many to places much closer to San Francisco than to Dallas).
Most of them come from Memphis or Dallas. The Mint doesn't ship them, their fulfillment contractor does that.
Thanks!
I understand the concept of paying someone else to fulfill; my confusion is around the fact that the coins were create in San Francisco, but mine is shipped from Dallas. Presumably, someone carted hundreds of thousands of coins from San Francisco to Dallas and/or Memphis. I'm having difficulty understanding why that makes more sense than shipping from San Francisco....
Somebody has to put them in the coin holders, boxes and then ship out the boxes. No doubt the fulfillment center has lower cost labor.
I just bought this set on eBay from a board member here. Very fair price for a PCGS First Strike 70 set. Thanks James! https://ebay.com/itm/126142401187
I see flipping in shades of grey, I have no problem with B&Ms buying bulk mint products and keeping them in stock so I can walk in and buy at a small mark up for their availability and storage services. I rather buy an ASE for a B&M than a website.
But as to this resale generation who simply leverage access against limited supply and then maximize what ever top dollar the market will bear without adding any real value all while feeling entitled and even demanding the institutions feed them in a manner that ensures their gluttonous and gratuitous profits is pathetic and speaks to the type of people they are. I know they care not what the world thinks of them as leaches care not about its host but they are still parasites on collectors.
@SilverPlatinum said:
I actually ordered 13 sets . 5 through my account, and 8 through my friends' accounts.
I did the same, bought 3 in one package and 2 in the other. I will also keep them sealed and eventually have the 2 sets graded while keeping the other three intact in there mint sealed box from the usps.
I've got 5 sets to pick up from the post office. That I would like to do is to get a couple sets in double holders (hopefully 70 grades of course). But have never done that. I know they did it for the Pride of Two Nations release. So the logistics and fees I need to figure out.
@Crypto said:
I see flipping in shades of grey, I have no problem with B&Ms buying bulk mint products and keeping them in stock so I can walk in and buy at a small mark up for their availability and storage services. I rather buy an ASE for a B&M than a website.
But as to this resale generation who simply leverage access against limited supply and then maximize what ever top dollar the market will bear without adding any real value all while feeling entitled and even demanding the institutions feed them in a manner that ensures their gluttonous and gratuitous profits is pathetic and speaks to the type of people they are. I know they care not what the world thinks of them as leaches care not about its host but they are still parasites on collectors.
Dang Crypto....you really need to learn how to express your feelings. Holding in all of that rage is really harmful to your health!🤣😂
@Crypto said:
I see flipping in shades of grey, I have no problem with B&Ms buying bulk mint products and keeping them in stock so I can walk in and buy at a small mark up for their availability and storage services. I rather buy an ASE for a B&M than a website.
But as to this resale generation who simply leverage access against limited supply and then maximize what ever top dollar the market will bear without adding any real value all while feeling entitled and even demanding the institutions feed them in a manner that ensures their gluttonous and gratuitous profits is pathetic and speaks to the type of people they are. I know they care not what the world thinks of them as leaches care not about its host but they are still parasites on collectors.
Dang Crypto....you really need to learn how to express your feelings. Holding in all of that rage is really harmful to your health!🤣😂
@alefzero said:
I've got 5 sets to pick up from the post office. That I would like to do is to get a couple sets in double holders (hopefully 70 grades of course). But have never done that. I know they did it for the Pride of Two Nations release. So the logistics and fees I need to figure out.
It is a little dated (e.g., Secure Plus vs. Gold Shield), but the last time I asked, this was still the process.
Comments
Congrats to @DrDarryl for posting the first sets here!!!! And congrats to @Mediocrates007 for posting the actual coins- and well photographed as well~
My 2 sets come in on Tuesday. Currently in Dallas.
Throw a coin enough times, and suppose one day it lands on its edge.
Please explain your math. 🤔
I will explain mine. $720 ×13% fees= ($93.60).
$720- $93.60- $555 cost= $71.40
$71.40 - $10 shipping fee= $61.40
$61.40 ÷ $555 = 11% return
No where near your 30% claim🤔
Selling for list price at Baltimore, limit 5
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Did they sell out at the show? 🤔
good question. was it a day 1 sell out at the show?
I was there Thursday at 12:10 and the line was 30 deep.
Had to leave at 1:00 and there were approx. 20 people there.
Wonder how the day went after that,
From what I could see, the Mint had about 10 maybe more employees there, with security.
By far the best looking of all the "new" Morgan & Peace issues from the mint. These do justice to the original designs.
To clarify, I don't mind if flippers make a bit of money; what I thought was absurd in 2021 was that the Mint either charged way, way too little, or made way too few of them. The result was that collectors were horribly inconvenienced (or shut out altogether), and flippers had a field day.
This year, everyone who wanted one had plenty of opportunity to get one at the Mint's price, and there may be some folks who are happy to pay a premium to buy from a high-volume dealer. Everyone's happy!
I'm curious about this.
Mine were shipped from Irving, Texas (near Dallas). Presumably, they were struck in San Francisco; it seems odd to me to truck them from San Francisco to Dallas, and then send them out (many to places much closer to San Francisco than to Dallas).
My two sets are scheduled for Tuesday. No flip, one for each kid...
My buddy has a table at the show. I asked him to find out if the Mint sold out of their show allotment.
FWIW, he told me the past 2 days have been extremely busy for his table so they had plenty of buyers😎
Not that I saw, I was there about 12 with no line and they had what appeared to be hundreds left. I assumed they offered them yesterday too
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
9% fees if you have an ebay store. [I actually pay 8.1% with TRS, but use 9%]. That's $65 in fees. Use your $10 shipping. That's net $90.
Originally, i rounded using my 10% total cost estimate.
The 30% I was referring to is the gross premium over cost 100× 720/555=129.7%. For people trying to trash these sets, that's the number I would point to as you don't have to sell them on ebay. A 30% premium, though that was only one sale, would be about the best one would hope for today.
Most of them come from Memphis or Dallas. The Mint doesn't ship them, their fulfillment contractor does that.
Thanks!
I understand the concept of paying someone else to fulfill; my confusion is around the fact that the coins were create in San Francisco, but mine is shipped from Dallas. Presumably, someone carted hundreds of thousands of coins from San Francisco to Dallas and/or Memphis. I'm having difficulty understanding why that makes more sense than shipping from San Francisco....
It's wherever the contractor is located. I assume they were the low bidder, even with the trans-shipping. It's just one truckload, probably of multiple issues not just these coins. Everything goes through the fulfillment contractor. It used to be just Memphis. The Dallas site popped up in the last year or so.
They also distribute P, D and W. So, San Francisco would not be closer to all 4 mints.
All in all, the Mint sold on or about 250,000 sets of expensive silver RP sets in a relatively short period of time. That is quite an accomplishment.
I can see the mintage skyrocketing for the 2024 version....hope I'm wrong.
What do you guys think about next year?
@Goldbully
one and done for me...
What do you guys think about next year?
I hope (but don't have a lot of faith in the concept) that the Mint realizes that they got it perfect this year, and doesn't make huge changes.
It truly is amazing how little fuss and muss ordering from the Mint is now...compared to "the good old days"...
I keep saying it, and you keep ignoring me. They had them WAY more than 3 days in advance.
It's why the prices went as low as they did, as much in advance as they did. No one is shipping anything picked up in Baltimore yesterday, because no one offered onsite grading in Baltimore.
You can deny the obvious as much as you want, because the president of a TPG is not going to provide you a confirmation, and you won't see a reference on the Mint website to what is going on. But no Big Boy was speculating by offering RP 70 sets for ~$350 a month ago, and no magic resulted in sets going from the Mint to a dealer to a TPG to dealer to a customer in 3 days.
And yet we've seen no such proof from you or anyone else. But keep saying it. We posted the Mint terms. They day 3 days. I'm going to continue to believe them.
You could also go on ebay where all the slabs I see still say "pre-sale" and not "in hand".
But there is no law that says you need facts to support your posts... which is a good thing.
Because they don't do order fulfillment at any Mint. Even if you are buying from a Mint store literally located in the lobby of a Mint, coins are manufactured at a Mint and then shipped to a fulfillment center (apparently Dallas and/or Memphis) for packaging, order processing and shipping. Likely even to the Mint stores.
While it might seem counterintuitive, this is a far more efficient way to distribute hundreds of thousands of anything versus fulfilling individual orders at the factory.
Gotcha!
Thanks.
Mark
I think there is no reason to increase the mintage. 400K proofs did not sell out. 275K uncs did. 250K appears to be the right number for these.
Again, anyone who wanted to had the chance to get up to 5, and they did not sell out before HHLs were lifted. Big Boys got what they needed, as evidenced by the fact that they are selling quantity in RP 70 for around 2x issue price.
The goal is to meet demand and maximize profit, while making something people want that hopefully retains its value. The Mint hit each of these metrics. They moved 500K units containing around $20 worth of silver for $92.50 each.
No reason to change a thing. Yesterday a lot of people thought these were going to be losers, because subscriptions did not sell out, they did not sell out while the HHL was in place, and because they are going to be sold next year. Now, a few hours after a sell out on Day 2, there is speculation that the Mint is going to kill these by overproducing next year.
Maybe give them a little credit for finally figuring things out. How many to make as well as how to distribute. The only thing they did wrong was overproduce the proofs. I trust they will fix that next year, and make adjustments going forward as the market dictates.
The market right now says 250K is the right number at $185 per set. If they want to get greedy, they can raise the price and lower the mintage. Or do the opposite if they want to sell more at a lower price, if some financial analyst can create a model that shows they will make more money selling more at a lower price point. Which will only help the 2023s, but I just don't see it happening.
Based on everything we have seen this year, if the mintage "skyrockets" next year at $185 because these sold out when the HHL was lifted, they'll have a lot of unsold inventory on their hands, and the naysayers here will do their happy dance. If I can see this, I'm pretty sure the Mint can as well.
Yes. My proof is only in what I have observed, including now graded coins being shipped today, a mere 4 days after you say was the earliest any Big Boy can possibly have come into possession of them. And these are not even Advance Release coins, are they? If not, please explain the logistics to a simple mind like mine.
Between you and my lying eyes, I'm going with my eyes. The fact that they were priced a month ago tells me a meaningful sample was graded a month ago. You can believe whatever you want.
Can I ask you a question, does that S mint mark on your which I assume was shipped, look frosted like in your picture? My S on mine looks shinny on my Bmore pick up. But I sure it could be photography differences
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
If the mintage is the same or more, I think I'm out. If the mintage is under 200k, I'll probably pick up a set or two.
Yeah, that's also unrealistic. The Mint has shown they are serious about capturing the lion's share of the value they create. If you are holding your breath waiting for home runs, you are going to suffocate.
Given what they have been doing with pricing and mintages, if they made under 200K, you wouldn't like the price and also would be out. And, they have shown no interest in going down that path.
They very clearly want to make enough to satisfy demand, while also pricing them so as to capture what the market values the mintage at. Accordingly, if they did make less than 200K, they'd probably price them at around $200 each coin, or $400 for the set, and you'd scream about that, because it would also kill the flip. But, again, that's not their game -- creating artificial rarities and pricing regular collectors out.
They will very likely make another 250K, and will likely have no problem selling all of them, even without your set or two.
Just a difference in the way it was photographed. Difficult to shoot these and not lose all the shadow detail when you’re perpendicular to the coin as the devices are all reflective.
Well the seller does not have an Ebay store so he has to pay the 13% fee like most Ebay sellers
L> @WQuarterFreddie said:
My concern is my yield. If the price is 720, the price is 720. [Again, I'm not sure it is off one comp. ] At that number, this is a very good flip.
YMMV
They were available for 2-3 minutes.
Another barometer of this issue's successful rollout.
I think they are potentially developing a future glut of Morgan/Peace iterations. Driving stagnant future pricing will not obviously keep pace with inflation. How does that entice future buyers/collectors?
Which will be sad as they are the one and only US Mint, with a chance to develop future numismatists and those that would appreciate the scarcity and future perceived value along with the beauty and craftsmanship. US Mint has to hang their hat on those attributes as historical significance is not in play.
Producing yearly uncs is OK but all these yearly proofs and rp's is too much "stuff" IMO.
I actually ordered 13 sets
. 5 through my account, and 8 through my friends' accounts. So I have 2 sealed boxes of 5 sets each with UPS tracking papers on them showing that label was created November 6th (so I'm planning to keep them that way and not opening them).
The other 3 sets I'm planning to send for grading later on.
I'm happy with my decision for those many sets as I'm a collector of "1st year of issue".
You might be correct, but creating future rarities, to more than keep pace with inflation and to enhance your investment portfolio really isn't part of their mandate. They are a mass market manufacturer producing product to meet a mass market demand. Canada and Australia seem to have plenty of 5K mintage issues if you are looking for something more limited in nature.
If that does not entice future buyers/collectors, so be it. Their goal is to meet today's demand, at a price that captures what the market dictates, while providing room for their Big Boy partners to also make money by selling TPG slabs at prices the rest of us cannot beat.
If demand wanes in the future, they will either adjust mintages to match reduced demand, or they will kill the value of the product. But, today, they can easily sell 250K sets at $185 price, so that's what they are doing.
As I suggested in another post, if they sold half as many at 4x the price, you'd be complaining about them gouging. When they sold a fraction of what the market would support at a fraction of where the market valued the items, we all complained about website crashes and the inability to just get one for our collections. They are certainly not going back to that.
If the only reason anyone is interested is to flip, or in anticipation of future riches by getting to access to artificial rarities everyone wants but few can actually get at issue price, they should probably look to Ultra Breaks or Air Jordans. The model here now seems to be to allow people to easily get what they want, at a price far in excess of intrinsic value and far below what the market would bear if they were more difficult to obtain.
The Mint is a US government agency, that should be serving all Americans. Not a select few insiders, by creating artificial rarities that people can easily flip or hold for future appreciation, without taking any real risk or even needing to know anything about anything. The US Treasury also sells debt instruments, each and every week, for people who want to make investments with the US government.
Somebody has to put them in the coin holders, boxes and then ship out the boxes. No doubt the fulfillment center has lower cost labor.
I just bought this set on eBay from a board member here. Very fair price for a PCGS First Strike 70 set. Thanks James!
https://ebay.com/itm/126142401187
I see flipping in shades of grey, I have no problem with B&Ms buying bulk mint products and keeping them in stock so I can walk in and buy at a small mark up for their availability and storage services. I rather buy an ASE for a B&M than a website.
But as to this resale generation who simply leverage access against limited supply and then maximize what ever top dollar the market will bear without adding any real value all while feeling entitled and even demanding the institutions feed them in a manner that ensures their gluttonous and gratuitous profits is pathetic and speaks to the type of people they are. I know they care not what the world thinks of them as leaches care not about its host but they are still parasites on collectors.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
To my surprise, in todays mail
INYNWHWeTrust-TexasNationals,ajaan,blu62vette
coinJP, Outhaul ,illini420,MICHAELDIXON, Fade to Black,epcjimi1,19Lyds,SNMAN,JerseyJoe, bigjpst, DMWJR , lordmarcovan, Weiss,Mfriday4962,UtahCoin,Downtown1974,pitboss,RichieURich,Bullsitter,JDsCoins,toyz4geo,jshaulis, mustanggt, SNMAN, MWallace, ms71
Received mine today - Well Done US MINT !!!
The two coins are just indescribably Beautiful !
These will be very popular when collectors
begin to pay attention.
I did the same, bought 3 in one package and 2 in the other. I will also keep them sealed and eventually have the 2 sets graded while keeping the other three intact in there mint sealed box from the usps.
Will there be a registry set for the two coin set? PCGS only has the registry set for the other MS and PR coins
I've got 5 sets to pick up from the post office. That I would like to do is to get a couple sets in double holders (hopefully 70 grades of course). But have never done that. I know they did it for the Pride of Two Nations release. So the logistics and fees I need to figure out.
Dang Crypto....you really need to learn how to express your feelings. Holding in all of that rage is really harmful to your health!🤣😂
I think he's flipping something...
It is a little dated (e.g., Secure Plus vs. Gold Shield), but the last time I asked, this was still the process.
Just checked and they are available