Back to UPS delivery and rescheduling or hold thru UPS MyChoice.
Delivery scheduled this week while I was away.
Have a UPS MyChoice account and went on to hold delivery.
First of all a delivery attempt must be made and then you need their infonotice number in order to hold or reschedule. Tracking alone is not good enough.
No problem, right? Not so. UPS does not list our UPS main depot Customer Center as a valid center to hold package. I could only send it to a UPS Store, a Michaels store, or various other retail establishments.
No thank you.
So, I reschedule the delivery for a day early next week when I will be home all day. I enter the date, they say they want $12 to do the change. I pay the fee.
No confirmation until the next day—they say my delivery date was accepted.
So—all set, right? Nope. Not so fast.
UPS skips trying to deliver for the second attempt Friday; but, put it on the truck for Saturday (which is NOT the agreed delivery date)
So I get another failed attempt. #2.
What is the matter with these fools at UPS.????
Well, luckily, final attempt will be next delivery day—-Monday—-which is the exact day I rescheduled the delivery with UPS.
“Someone” will be calling their customer care center to see what idiot tried to deliver my package when they shouldn’t have—-and bet your last $$ I will get a refund of my $12 fee from these half wits.
@124Spider said:
While still remembering the cluster-f**k that was the introduction of the modern Peace and Morgan dollars in 2021, I have to give the Mint kudos for getting it right this year. Having them available for subscription, and then selling out one day after they go on sale, gave everyone who really cares a chance to buy, but puts all the profit where it belongs--with the Mint (not with flippers).
That remains to be seen. Holidays are here...keep an eye on Ebay completed auctions for true aftermarket values.😉
Sealed box of 3 sold for $720 today.
After fees and shipping not much profit.🤔
$100 is 100 bucks.
It's a 30% premium over issue.
Please explain your math. 🤔
I will explain mine. $720 ×13% fees= ($93.60).
$720- $93.60- $555 cost= $71.40
$71.40 - $10 shipping fee= $61.40
$61.40 ÷ $555 = 11% return
No where near your 30% claim🤔
Pretty coins in hand ... Mint smarter pricing coins... keeping profit for themselves , instead of flippers..Some point own the road ... these will get a run higher
@Crypto said:
I see flipping in shades of grey, I have no problem with B&Ms buying bulk mint products and keeping them in stock so I can walk in and buy at a small mark up for their availability and storage services. I rather buy an ASE for a B&M than a website.
But as to this resale generation who simply leverage access against limited supply and then maximize what ever top dollar the market will bear without adding any real value all while feeling entitled and even demanding the institutions feed them in a manner that ensures their gluttonous and gratuitous profits is pathetic and speaks to the type of people they are. I know they care not what the world thinks of them as leaches care not about its host but they are still parasites on collectors.
Dang Crypto....you really need to learn how to express your feelings. Holding in all of that rage is really harmful to your health!🤣😂
More appropriate years ago.. flippers have been getting less home run Mint coins
@coiner said:
Back to UPS delivery and rescheduling or hold thru UPS MyChoice.
Delivery scheduled this week while I was away.
Have a UPS MyChoice account and went on to hold delivery.
First of all a delivery attempt must be made and then you need their infonotice number in order to hold or reschedule. Tracking alone is not good enough.
No problem, right? Not so. UPS does not list our UPS main depot Customer Center as a valid center to hold package. I could only send it to a UPS Store, a Michaels store, or various other retail establishments.
No thank you.
So, I reschedule the delivery for a day early next week when I will be home all day. I enter the date, they say they want $12 to do the change. I pay the fee.
No confirmation until the next day—they say my delivery date was accepted.
So—all set, right? Nope. Not so fast.
UPS skips trying to deliver for the second attempt Friday; but, put it on the truck for Saturday (which is NOT the agreed delivery date)
So I get another failed attempt. #2.
What is the matter with these fools at UPS.????
Well, luckily, final attempt will be next delivery day—-Monday—-which is the exact day I rescheduled the delivery with UPS.
“Someone” will be calling their customer care center to see what idiot tried to deliver my package when they shouldn’t have—-and bet your last $$ I will get a refund of my $12 fee from these half wits.
I would suggest writing a formal complain letter to the CEO Carol B. Tomé and mail it via regular mail to their office (the address is on their website).
Wow...that Capital holder IS a nice (inexpensive) way to attractively display these coins...I may need to ponder this option...and maybe they'll even develop some color over the next 10 to 20 years!
I wonder if they make a 6 coin dollar holder that could house the 5 Morgans & 1 Peace from 2021?
@RichR said:
Wow...that Capital holder IS a nice (inexpensive) way to attractively display these coins...I may need to ponder this option...and maybe they'll even develop some color over the next 10 to 20 years!
I wonder if they make a 6 coin dollar holder that could house the 5 Morgans & 1 Peace from 2021?
@RichR said:
[That's what we call "reverse logistics" in the business. Like the day after Christmas in a retail store.]
How many of these are returns "BECAUSE THEY DON'T LOOK LIKE 70s" vs. "I changed my mind"?
I’m thinking the overwhelming majority of the 14,000+ returns are “changed my mind”. People signed up for these things on enrollment quite a while ago, and I’m sure forgot about them, or gambled and kept the order seeing if there would be a secondary market. Coins arrived, they see there’s nothing to these (at least yet), so they denied delivery or returned them. This is about what I expected. The mint is gathering the returns to be able to place a large group for sale at once in the upcoming mornings. This should not be news to anyone here, but people seem to forget how coins that quickly sell out then flop from the mint are handled.
I finally got around to opening my one set that arrived last week.
The coins are stunning.
As expected, I prefer them over the regular proofs with the heavily lasered devices.
So, my order of preference is uncirculated, RP, regular proof.
I'd buy an enhanced unc if they offered it, but I'm not sure I'll keep buying the same finishes to keep a date set going. But I might buy the uncirculated Peace Dollar again - I really like those.
As @1madman stated correctly, many returns were deemed "changed my mind" because that allows return shipping and fast credit. I changed my mind, when I looked at the ones I received. Morgans have a lot of issues. Peace quality is better, but you have to return sets of two.
Don't rush to get the dregs that will show up available. Like I said a few pages ago, just buy graded 70's if you want excellent examples for the future. These have flaws that many do not see.
@Goldminers said:
These have flaws that many do not see.
Such as?
From the sets I've seen, a lot of the Morgan dollars have contact marks on the cheeks. I'll go out on a limb and say that the reverse proof Morgan dollars will have noticeably less 70's overall than the peace dollars.
@MetroD said:
Returned numismatic items are inspected. If they are deemed acceptable, they are returned to inventory.
And that one word, which could mean different things to two different people...is where the problem lies in purchasing an item that has been returned to the US Mint.
If, for example, a return comes in from @ColonelKlinck, that looks like it was carved up by a certain Argentinian president-elect on the campaign trail, one might say, "Meh, looks acceptable to me"...where as the rest of us would cringe if we got something like his coin delivered to our door.
@Goldminers said:
These have flaws that many do not see.
Such as?
Rim scratches, small scuffs in the proof areas and multiple little finish pin head sized flaws in the frosted areas that can only be seen when turning the coin at an angle in good light. Many of these are not visible when looking at the coin straight on in the capsule. They will not grade 70 is any of these flaws exist.
Many people sending in First Strikes or coins for base grading (not advanced or bulk) look at their coins and conclude they are worth grading for 70's, because they do not see these flaws. Currently of 800 Morgan RP's submitted for first strikes 241 came back 69. That is 30% and IMO that proves that many flaws are not easy to see for many submitters.
More dramatic are the "base" submittals where folks don't pay the $18 for first strike labels. So far, of 102 Morgan RP's graded, only 20 were 70's! That is an 80% PR70 failure rate and expensive.
The peace dollar RP base data also shows 142 total graded and 122 of those were graded 69. PCGS data as of Nov. 22nd.
P.S. I don't think it will stay that bad %-wise for base data as more are sent in, but it is surprising to see so many 69's at this stage.
Sent mine back. After clearing a light blue thread from inside the Morgan, it was flawless. The Peace had a spot on her check, streaks in her neck, and a milky looking area along her hairline. 68 would be a stretch.
Opened my single OGP RevPr set -I see zero issues with either coin. Have a PCGS RevPr70 set ordered from Waverly Coin as well. Decreased my Mint order to one set after the announcement of RevPr sets for 2024. For 23 I have a complete Flag 70 set as well as OGP to go with my 21 Flag 70 set. I had my raw 21 set graded and sold on eBay after their price appreciation- I lucked out and got all 70’s which gave me a basically free net price for the Flag 70 21’s.
The RP Morgan’s have more distractions/unevenness of mirrors on the cheek. I have prescreened 75 sets and have felt good about 25 of the Morgan’s making the grade (70)
Maybe when one signs up for a subscription they would get one. I bought the S proof and the rev set at Baltimore and realized I didn’t have the P UNC. I went on the mint’s site and signed up or the UNC subscription seeing that they were sold out but I would be keyed up for 24. They proceeded to ship a 23p UNC that night.
@Goldbully - I lasted did a detailed report on Novemnber 16. Even at that early juncture for the RPs, it was looking like the Morgan RP might have a lower rate of 70s. So far, the Peace proof and the Morgan RP look to have a lower rate of 70s than the other 2023 Morgan and Peace issues. However, the Peace proof and the Morgan RP will likely not have as low an overall rate of 70 as the 2021-D Morgan. I'll report back with an updated detailed report this week.
Steve Palladino - Ike Group member - DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
@Goldbully said:
89.5% PR70 69.8% First Strike PR70.
94.1% PR70
91.8% First Strike PR70.
>
As of November 28, 2023
91.1% PR70 65.5% First Strike PR70
95.1% PR70
91.2% First Strike Pr70
I'm still amazed at the hugely lower # of 70's when it comes to First Strike Morgan RP $1's compared to the Peace RP's.
In two days the RP Morgans are down from 69.8% to 65.5% PR70.
I know the bulk guys won't accept anything less than 70, so do they have a ton of 69's in their inventories?
Also of note, not one coin graded under PR69 in this POP report.
If the bulk guys don't accept anything less than 70, they don't receive anything less than 70. Those coins remain raw, and are either wholesaled or retailed as such.
One-third of anything being less than absolutely perfect is not a "ton," and, in fact, is relatively low by any standard, modern or otherwise. The fact that 90%+ of Peace Dollars are coming back 70 is what is truly amazing.
Updated data through 11/29/2023:
.
Mint sales
.
Percent of mint sales graded by PCGS and NGC, the the percent of mint sales now in PCGS and NGC 70 holders
.
Rate of 70 for PCGS, NGC, and combined....overall....by label category...and new to this report, just base label rate of 70s
.
Still a bit early on the RPs, since the rate of 70 is still dominated by big boy submissions. That said, it is looking like the RP Morgan will have a lower rate of 70 than the RP Peace. Also, somewhat telling, given the predomininance of FDOI and AR submissions (with minimum grade 70 requests), is that total graded RP Peace $s is significantly exceeding the total graded RP Morgans. One possible explanation is that the big boy submissions had more Morgans returned not graded because they did not grade out 70.
PCGS and NGC unc and proof FDOI and AR type label populations are now static. PCGS First Strike unc and proof populations are now static (and will remain static except for the unopened mint shipping boxes that are on the sidelines). This means that grading populations for PCGS uncs and proofs will effectively only change due to base label submisssions....have a look at those rates of 70.
Overall 70 rates will trickle down over time with base label submissions garnering a lower rate of 70 in general.
Expect the Peace proofs to be the hardest to get in 70 (withholding judgement on the Morgan RP at this point). That said, the Peace proof are not expected to end up with lower rate of 70s than the 2021-D Morgan, and likely not lower than the 2021 Peace or 2021-O Morgan. (see current rates of 70 for the 2021 issues below)
.
Steve Palladino - Ike Group member - DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
Comments
Back to UPS delivery and rescheduling or hold thru UPS MyChoice.
Delivery scheduled this week while I was away.
Have a UPS MyChoice account and went on to hold delivery.
First of all a delivery attempt must be made and then you need their infonotice number in order to hold or reschedule. Tracking alone is not good enough.
No problem, right? Not so. UPS does not list our UPS main depot Customer Center as a valid center to hold package. I could only send it to a UPS Store, a Michaels store, or various other retail establishments.
No thank you.
So, I reschedule the delivery for a day early next week when I will be home all day. I enter the date, they say they want $12 to do the change. I pay the fee.
No confirmation until the next day—they say my delivery date was accepted.
So—all set, right? Nope. Not so fast.
UPS skips trying to deliver for the second attempt Friday; but, put it on the truck for Saturday (which is NOT the agreed delivery date)
So I get another failed attempt. #2.
What is the matter with these fools at UPS.????
Well, luckily, final attempt will be next delivery day—-Monday—-which is the exact day I rescheduled the delivery with UPS.
“Someone” will be calling their customer care center to see what idiot tried to deliver my package when they shouldn’t have—-and bet your last $$ I will get a refund of my $12 fee from these half wits.
Pretty coins in hand ... Mint smarter pricing coins... keeping profit for themselves , instead of flippers..Some point own the road ... these will get a run higher
More appropriate years ago.. flippers have been getting less home run Mint coins
PCGS slabs will fit in the box. Perfect of you want to keep the packaging and certificate of authenticity with the slabs.
Throw a coin enough times, and suppose one day it lands on its edge.
I would suggest writing a formal complain letter to the CEO Carol B. Tomé and mail it via regular mail to their office (the address is on their website).
Nowhere to be seen this am.
Sellout looking quite strong now.
All that matters is I'm sold out. Lol. I sold all 3 sets of 5 as sealed boxes. No fuss. No muss.
So your receipts from the Mint with your personal information are now in the hands of the buyers?🤣😂
There’s not much on there that’s too personal
My personal information is known to all my eBay customers.
I took a set out of OGP and plopped ‘em in a Capital Plastics holder.
On the contrary, Google is not your friend.
Ok 1863, you win the forum award for most creative and attractive holder!
That is an AMAZING pic. Well done!😎🥇🥇🥇
Wow...that Capital holder IS a nice (inexpensive) way to attractively display these coins...I may need to ponder this option...and maybe they'll even develop some color over the next 10 to 20 years!
I wonder if they make a 6 coin dollar holder that could house the 5 Morgans & 1 Peace from 2021?
Wow...
2023 MORGAN AND PEACE SILVER REVERSE PROOF 2-COIN SET (S) 206,177 (14,195)
I love every thing about this photo and presentation. Super attractive!
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
That's what we call "reverse logistics" in the business. Like the day after Christmas in a retail store.
Tim
[That's what we call "reverse logistics" in the business. Like the day after Christmas in a retail store.]
How many of these are returns "BECAUSE THEY DON'T LOOK LIKE 70s" vs. "I changed my mind"?
Or you could put all 6 coins from this year...
I wonder if they will put the returns back up for sale? Or do they send them to the melting pot?
I’m thinking the overwhelming majority of the 14,000+ returns are “changed my mind”. People signed up for these things on enrollment quite a while ago, and I’m sure forgot about them, or gambled and kept the order seeing if there would be a secondary market. Coins arrived, they see there’s nothing to these (at least yet), so they denied delivery or returned them. This is about what I expected. The mint is gathering the returns to be able to place a large group for sale at once in the upcoming mornings. This should not be news to anyone here, but people seem to forget how coins that quickly sell out then flop from the mint are handled.
Returned numismatic items are inspected. If they are deemed acceptable, they are returned to inventory.
I finally got around to opening my one set that arrived last week.
The coins are stunning.
As expected, I prefer them over the regular proofs with the heavily lasered devices.
So, my order of preference is uncirculated, RP, regular proof.
I'd buy an enhanced unc if they offered it, but I'm not sure I'll keep buying the same finishes to keep a date set going. But I might buy the uncirculated Peace Dollar again - I really like those.
As @1madman stated correctly, many returns were deemed "changed my mind" because that allows return shipping and fast credit. I changed my mind, when I looked at the ones I received. Morgans have a lot of issues. Peace quality is better, but you have to return sets of two.
Don't rush to get the dregs that will show up available. Like I said a few pages ago, just buy graded 70's if you want excellent examples for the future. These have flaws that many do not see.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Such as?
My full set
My current registry sets:
20th Century Type Set
Virtual DANSCO 7070
Slabbed IHC set - Missing the Anacs Slabbed coins
From the sets I've seen, a lot of the Morgan dollars have contact marks on the cheeks. I'll go out on a limb and say that the reverse proof Morgan dollars will have noticeably less 70's overall than the peace dollars.
That's my 2 cents, take it for what it's worth.
And that one word, which could mean different things to two different people...is where the problem lies in purchasing an item that has been returned to the US Mint.
If, for example, a return comes in from @ColonelKlinck, that looks like it was carved up by a certain Argentinian president-elect on the campaign trail, one might say, "Meh, looks acceptable to me"...where as the rest of us would cringe if we got something like his coin delivered to our door.
BST references available on request
Humm...might need to buy 2 of these,..for both the 2021 & 2023 coins,,,since I never sell anything!
Rim scratches, small scuffs in the proof areas and multiple little finish pin head sized flaws in the frosted areas that can only be seen when turning the coin at an angle in good light. Many of these are not visible when looking at the coin straight on in the capsule. They will not grade 70 is any of these flaws exist.
Many people sending in First Strikes or coins for base grading (not advanced or bulk) look at their coins and conclude they are worth grading for 70's, because they do not see these flaws. Currently of 800 Morgan RP's submitted for first strikes 241 came back 69. That is 30% and IMO that proves that many flaws are not easy to see for many submitters.
More dramatic are the "base" submittals where folks don't pay the $18 for first strike labels. So far, of 102 Morgan RP's graded, only 20 were 70's! That is an 80% PR70 failure rate and expensive.
The peace dollar RP base data also shows 142 total graded and 122 of those were graded 69. PCGS data as of Nov. 22nd.
P.S. I don't think it will stay that bad %-wise for base data as more are sent in, but it is surprising to see so many 69's at this stage.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
I have two of each set and the UNC is my favorite by far. I do not believe that I will repeat any purchases next year...
Beautiful
Sent mine back. After clearing a light blue thread from inside the Morgan, it was flawless. The Peace had a spot on her check, streaks in her neck, and a milky looking area along her hairline. 68 would be a stretch.
USAF veteran 1984-2005
Opened my single OGP RevPr set -I see zero issues with either coin. Have a PCGS RevPr70 set ordered from Waverly Coin as well. Decreased my Mint order to one set after the announcement of RevPr sets for 2024. For 23 I have a complete Flag 70 set as well as OGP to go with my 21 Flag 70 set. I had my raw 21 set graded and sold on eBay after their price appreciation- I lucked out and got all 70’s which gave me a basically free net price for the Flag 70 21’s.
89.5% PR70
69.8% First Strike PR70....That number seems way out of line compared to the Advanced releases subs.
94.1% PR70
91.8% First Strike PR70.
Will be interested in what @SPalladino has to say about those First Strike RP Morgans.
The RP Morgan’s have more distractions/unevenness of mirrors on the cheek. I have prescreened 75 sets and have felt good about 25 of the Morgan’s making the grade (70)
Even with mounting returns, no Cyber Monday availability on these sets this AM.
My guess is they will become available at noon today with the Vault Cyber Monday sale.😉
Maybe when one signs up for a subscription they would get one. I bought the S proof and the rev set at Baltimore and realized I didn’t have the P UNC. I went on the mint’s site and signed up or the UNC subscription seeing that they were sold out but I would be keyed up for 24. They proceeded to ship a 23p UNC that night.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
@Goldbully - I lasted did a detailed report on Novemnber 16. Even at that early juncture for the RPs, it was looking like the Morgan RP might have a lower rate of 70s. So far, the Peace proof and the Morgan RP look to have a lower rate of 70s than the other 2023 Morgan and Peace issues. However, the Peace proof and the Morgan RP will likely not have as low an overall rate of 70 as the 2021-D Morgan. I'll report back with an updated detailed report this week.
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
.
People on this thread were pooping all over them before the release. Why does anyone even care now? 😃
Not everyone was negative. I had 15.
My 5 sets are at PCGS and are in the 'grading' process.
Will report the results when available.
Cautiously optimistic.
As of November 26, 2023
>
As of November 28, 2023
91.1% PR70
65.5% First Strike PR70
95.1% PR70
91.2% First Strike Pr70
I'm still amazed at the hugely lower # of 70's when it comes to First Strike Morgan RP $1's compared to the Peace RP's.
In two days the RP Morgans are down from 69.8% to 65.5% PR70.
I know the bulk guys won't accept anything less than 70, so do they have a ton of 69's in their inventories?
Also of note, not one coin graded under PR69 in this POP report.
Wow...Again...
2023 MORGAN AND PEACE SILVER REVERSE PROOF 2-COIN SET (S) 189,689 (16,488)
If the bulk guys don't accept anything less than 70, they don't receive anything less than 70. Those coins remain raw, and are either wholesaled or retailed as such.
One-third of anything being less than absolutely perfect is not a "ton," and, in fact, is relatively low by any standard, modern or otherwise. The fact that 90%+ of Peace Dollars are coming back 70 is what is truly amazing.
It appears if FS is specified on the submission then the submitter is accepting them as a FS 69.
Updated data through 11/29/2023:
.
Mint sales
.
Percent of mint sales graded by PCGS and NGC, the the percent of mint sales now in PCGS and NGC 70 holders
.
Rate of 70 for PCGS, NGC, and combined....overall....by label category...and new to this report, just base label rate of 70s
.
Still a bit early on the RPs, since the rate of 70 is still dominated by big boy submissions. That said, it is looking like the RP Morgan will have a lower rate of 70 than the RP Peace. Also, somewhat telling, given the predomininance of FDOI and AR submissions (with minimum grade 70 requests), is that total graded RP Peace $s is significantly exceeding the total graded RP Morgans. One possible explanation is that the big boy submissions had more Morgans returned not graded because they did not grade out 70.
PCGS and NGC unc and proof FDOI and AR type label populations are now static. PCGS First Strike unc and proof populations are now static (and will remain static except for the unopened mint shipping boxes that are on the sidelines). This means that grading populations for PCGS uncs and proofs will effectively only change due to base label submisssions....have a look at those rates of 70.
Overall 70 rates will trickle down over time with base label submissions garnering a lower rate of 70 in general.
Expect the Peace proofs to be the hardest to get in 70 (withholding judgement on the Morgan RP at this point). That said, the Peace proof are not expected to end up with lower rate of 70s than the 2021-D Morgan, and likely not lower than the 2021 Peace or 2021-O Morgan. (see current rates of 70 for the 2021 issues below)
.
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor