Silver, Gold, Platinum Eagles, Buffalo Issues, Mints Intentions, Historical and current sales data f

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<< <i>Since, I don't want to start a thread just to ask this question, I figured this would be the topic to ask it. I have a sealed gold eagle set from a few years ago, less than five I believe. It's not a proof set but I don't remember the year I got it. Is there anything on the outside label that can tell me what year the set is? >>




There isn't a postmark on the box? >>



Good idea. I didn't think of it at all. I'll try MsMorrisine's idea if I don't see one. Thanks you two.

Re: 2008. That was one wild year. I was just trying to add the APEs to my collection, not for speculation, and also ended up buying the $50 proof at maximum price. Fortunately, I also returned the burnished uncs and was able to buy the $50, $25, and a $25 proof for the same price I paid for the $50 proof a few months earlier.

Add in the buffaloes and burnished unc gold eagles, and I doubt any of us will see another year like it from the Mint. This, BTW, is why I never complain about the Mint's erratic behavior. If they were truly on top of things, and understood collectors, we just wouldn't ever have these opportunities.

I bought both the Proof and Unc Plats early on and kept them instead of returning them. I was gambling on the mintage and speculating on whether or not they would be put back on sale.

Of course, I got it wrong - but the price increases have bailed me out to the extent that I can still recoup my capital - or at least get my money out and have some kind of tax offset if I don't quite get it all out.

As it turns out, it was still a reasonably good speculation even without the grand-slam home run. I still like the low, low mintages on 2008 Plats. In fact, I did "average in" by buying some more of them when they went back on sale at half-price later in the year. It was a very odd year - the kind of year I'm lying in wait for to happen once again.

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<< <i>2008 was a very strange year for platinum eagles. When the proofs came out spot prices were sky high and a 4 coin set was around $4K as I recall.

I bit off a big chunck of proofs and in very early July a big chunck of 2008-W burnished.

By late July spot prices had crashed and while it was too late to return the proofs I had to decide what to do with the burnished sets and singles.

I knew sales had to be very low so potential FS labels for the burnished would be rare, however by the end of July I was, as I recall, looking at an almost $1000+ per set decline for base metal value of each 4 coin set.

Also remember at that time there was a 30 day return option and no reason to think the APEs would be pulled only to later be re-introduced at lower price.

So the delemia................Submit the sealed Uncirculated APEs for grading and FS labels knowing the FS labels would be rare but also knowing all those 50-75% of coins that graded MS69s or less would not be back in time to return to mint and would by early August have an almost 40% decline in spot value costing me thousands or whether to go ahead and open most of the sets, return the obvious MS69 or lower coins to the mint and be happy to keep the 'pick of the litter' for later submission but without FS labels.

All of this also occurred during a period of time when there was great confusion and flip-flopping by PCGS over whether colector club members could even submit for FS labeling.

In the end the coin collector in me over came the paper label collector and I returned enough 2008-W APEs to save 50+K based on spot metal difference from early July to early August. (Check Kitco historical prices to see the truely dramatic decline in platinum prices during that 30 day period.)

I will mention all this was too late for the Proof APEs which have sat quietly to the side, sealed away til their at times indecisive owner got off his duff to submit them. >>



Thanks for the great post!![/q
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Just a post script............

In 2008 the US Mint had the worst possible timing of events.

They introduced and priced the Unc APEs when spot Platinum was at $2,000+ only to see price drop $600 in 30 days after introduction killing sales and spurring returns..

After they pulled the coins for repricing spot prices continued to fall to a low of near $800 by Oct 2008.

A $1,200 per ounce drop!!

When in October coins were reintroduced they were priced at around half the original offering price from July but still at a significant premium to spot bullion..

By that time Lehman Brothers had failed in September and the financial crisis of 2008 was full blown and the stock market was crashing.

Demand for coins was low and when sales ended in early December the result was some historic low mintages for all four coins.

This debacle also led to the end of the 30 day 'no questions asked' return policy at the U.S. Mint. >>



This insightful post into the great issues of '08 would be a neat addition to Eric's book when/if the next addition is done. >>


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P.S.S.

One additional compounding factor facing collectors in late 2008 was the U.S. Mint decision to end a number of product offerings including all fractional Buffs both proof and Unc., all fractional proof Platinum, all burnished APEs and fractional burnished gold, etc.

Those decisions triggered among the regular readers of this thread a scramble to secure as many of the soon to keys as possible.

In the end it really came down to a question of an individual collectors preference and perhaps to a greater degree a question of how deep were your pockets and how much were you willing to risk at a time when the world around us was still fearing total financial system collapse and a new depression.

Collectors had multiple opportunities of a lifetime but they came at a time of great uncertainity in the world.

It was a wonderful time to be a collector and regular reader of this thread...................
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(Eric.....I was typing this when you posted the preceeding message. I agree that on the next printing of your book a whole chapter could be added just on the events of 2008. Looking back on my US Mint ordering record from 2008 it would make many on the board cry to see some of the orders I canceled as I scrambled to try to figure out how to allocate available funds among the feast of offerings from the mint. )

Let's hope the 25th Anniversary turns out like the fractional buffalos and only 100K are minted. That would create some low mintage coins in the one of a kind MS S minted coins. Unless the mint decides to mint more of the MS S versions in single issue in the future. Strange that they are mentioning this anniversary set so late in the year. Almost as if it wasn't planned at all.

Folks, NN seems to have forgotten the mintage stats in the Sept 6 issue.
Does anyone know the latest figures for the $50 2011 W AGE?
For that matter, what is the best source to get the latest Mint sales stats? THANKS!"

Rafus,

Coinupdate.com

Scroll down to the mint sales report link. I think over 5K and something so far

<< <i>Let's hope the 25th Anniversary turns out like the fractional buffalos and only 100K are minted. That would create some low mintage coins in the one of a kind MS S minted coins. Unless the mint decides to mint more of the MS S versions in single issue in the future. Strange that they are mentioning this anniversary set so late in the year. Almost as if it wasn't planned at all. >>



Agreed and why isn't it on the scheduled product listings but the 2011 American Eagle Silver Uncirculated Coin is. I guess I shouldn't complain I would rather it stay in the dark until the last possible moment.

<< <i>Just took a little nibble at Lucy. Hope Rutherford B. doesn't mind. >>



You sir are a dead man

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<< <i>Just took a little nibble at Lucy. Hope Rutherford B. doesn't mind. >>



You sir are a dead man >>




It's all platonic. She is a high dollar lady though.

The Mint pulled gold for repricing again on Friday. It is getting hard to predict now.

could someone please tell me the grey sheet prices for proof gold buffalos 2006 + 2007???

<< <i>I still think the 2008 Unc Plat holders will be the long term winners. As they are lowest mintage modern coin. >>



I have the $25 quarter ounce one-- yah they're pretty low!

"I just noticed that an NGC 2008 W PF70ER buff set brought more than a PCGS (non-FS) set. Wow."

Raufus: Why is this at all surprising to you? The PCGS FS set still brings around $12k+ - right, which is nearly 50% more than the NGC ER you refer to here? So, it does not seem surprising at all that the NGC counterpart to FS should fetch roughly the same, or slighly more, than an non-FS PCGS set?

That said, the Buffalos are certainly "hanging in there", but IMHO are not performing all that well and especially relative to gold spot. I believe these Buffalo sets in top grade are worth about the same amount today (or less) as they were when gold was around $1,200 or so an oz. In fact, if memory serves me right, that PCGS PR70FS set had a high of around $16k-$17k and has fallen back to roughly $12k-$13k (tops) while at the same time spot gold rocketed up 50% or more. The point being ... top grade proof Buffalo gold has not performed all that well over the past 6-12 months the way I see it. Comments?

Wondercoin

<< <i>"I just noticed that an NGC 2008 W PF70ER buff set brought more than a PCGS (non-FS) set. Wow."

Raufus: Why is this at all surprising to you? The PCGS FS set still brings around $12k+ - right, which is nearly 50% more than the NGC ER you refer to here? So, it does not seem surprising at all that the NGC counterpart to FS should fetch roughly the same, or slighly more, than an non-FS PCGS set?

That said, the Buffalos are certainly "hanging in there", but IMHO are not performing all that well and especially relative to gold spot. I believe these Buffalo sets in top grade are worth about the same amount today (or less) as they were when gold was around $1,200 or so an oz. In fact, if memory serves me right, that PCGS PR70FS set had a high of around $16k-$17k and has fallen back to roughly $12k-$13k (tops) while at the same time spot gold rocketed up 50% or more. The point being ... top grade proof Buffalo gold has not performed all that well over the past 6-12 months the way I see it. Comments?

Wondercoin >>




Even rockets don't go up at blistering speed forever. Doesn't mean it is a dud though.

In simple terms, a year or so ago, a collector had a choice ... own the PCGS-PR70DCAM FS 4-pc Buffalo Gold set or own 13 ozs. of gold. Today, the collector has the choice to own the same Buffalo set or about 6 1/2 - 7 ozs. of gold. Let see where the numbers are a year from now.

Wondercoin

P.S. If that collector selected the 13 ozs. of gold, his pile is worth about $24,500+. If he elected the Buffalo set, his pile is worth around $12,500.

P.S.S. Of course, buyers in 2008 are still doing fine. They would be doing FAR better if they sold their top grade (FS) Buffalos sets a year ago and converted it to gold bullion.

2many,
alas, none of those choices looks great to me, but I'm glad to have a MOH gold. If I had to choose, I might get some First Spouses, but I probably won't.

I just noticed an NGC MS70 Jackie $5 Unc. which sold BIN on FeeBay for $4400. I've not seen one sell for some time, but this seems lower than I remember. I wonder if it will keep falling.

I would not trade my ungraded Jackie (likely an MS69) for any of the spouses. Those IMO are late date US Mint/Franklin Mint products that are the numismatic equivalent of Postal Service commem stamps regardless of mintage.

<< <i>I would not trade my ungraded Jackie (likely an MS69) for any of the spouses. Those IMO are late date US Mint/Franklin Mint products that are the numismatic equivalent of Postal Service commem stamps regardless of mintage. >>



I paid $4700 for my NGC Jackie MS70 at the Balto. show a few years ago. Getting nervous.

Thanks Grits! Makes me feel a bit better.

That's why I was surprised to see an NGC 70 for for $4400. Hopefully, they'll hold their value long term.

<< <i>n simple terms, a year or so ago, a collector had a choice ... own the PCGS-PR70DCAM FS 4-pc Buffalo Gold set or own 13 ozs. of gold. Today, the collector has the choice to own the same Buffalo set or about 6 1/2 - 7 ozs. of gold. Let see where the numbers are a year from now.

Wondercoin

P.S. If that collector selected the 13 ozs. of gold, his pile is worth about $24,500+. If he elected the Buffalo set, his pile is worth around $12,500.

P.S.S. Of course, buyers in 2008 are still doing fine. They would be doing FAR better if they sold their top grade (FS) Buffalos sets a year ago and converted it to gold bullion.

This is a very good point. Do I trade 8 silver eagle rolls for 20 25th Anniversary Sets. 8 rolls X 20=160oz (silver at 44x160=$7040 for 5x20=100oz (Anniversary Boxes @$350x20=$7000). I would be giving up almost $2400 or 60 ounces of Silver to buy the 25th Anniversary ASE sets. >>




I would do that if I got the silver rolls at a pretty good price. Of course getting 20 sets might be difficult.

<< <i>My ASEs rolls were bought in the $300 dollar range about 6-7 years ago. >>



Sweet. You could look at it like getting 20 sets at a cost of $120 each then instead of losing 60 ounces.