There will be some killer rarities this year, that is one thing I am certain of. However will it be in the AGEs, APEs, or the Buffs? Will it be Proofs or UNCs?
It doesn't have to be in one or the other. Each of these coins can be a key in its series.
If you're looking for an opinion on the lowest mintage of what's listed, I don't think there's any question that it will be the platinum uncirculated coins.
Of course that is different from predicting that they have the most upside potential. The buffalos should have the most collector appeal --as gold coins, they have a broader collector base to begin with, and there's crossover appeal for the much larger base of buffalo nickel collectors.
It is hard to believe there are more Unc platinum 2008-W sold than 2008-W Unc gold buffs
Are numbers accurate??
How do these compare to 2006-W??
I don't think the numbers Eric posted are for the 2008-W unc buffs, but for the American Eagle coins.
in terms of how 2008-w unc plats compare to 2006-w plats, we don't know yet. If people are right about errors in the reported sales numbers, it looks like they could be very close.
I think the continued focus on whether 2008 might be lower than 2006 or not misses the point.
We've grown used to looking for mintages on these, with the expectation that if the current year was any higher than previous years, the coins were dogs, and if they were lower, they were kings.
But the rules on platinum have changed. The uncirculated w sets are done. It now is a discrete, 3 year collectible set.
It's much less important whether 2006 is 200 coins lower or higher than 2008 for a particular denomination.
The important thing is that for any given denomination, the number of 3 year type sets possible will be capped at whatever the lowest mintage coin is for that denomination.
No matter what those numbers are, they're going to be under 3,000 for the $100, under 2,700 for the $25 and $50 and under 3,600 for the $10.
Whether that number drops to under 2,200 (for example) for the $50 instead of the current number of 2,600 is almost irrelevant, because it's already well under what I view as the threshhold number of 5,000.
On top of that, even the 2007 coins, with relatively high mintages, look phenomenal compared to other coin mintages of the last 80 years.
2007s were the dogs of platinum unc, with mintages of 3,800 to 4,000 for the $25, $50 and $100 and almost 6,000 for the $10. But how do those numbers stack up against other moderns?
2008 might be lower than 2006, it might not. We really won't know until the mintages are final. There's certainly reason to question the reported sales figures, but at the end of the day, we just have to wait to find out. Until then, if you DON'T have the 2008 w unc platinum coins and are interested in having one, they really haven't moved that much on the secondary market at this point, so there's still time to grab one up while at a great price. Low risk on the downside, and strong potential upside.
So how many real collectors of the three year platinum series do you think there are? I suspect there are only about 1,000 real collectors as opposed to those who are looking to sell as soon as they get a good price. That has been my view of platinums from the beginning of the W Unc sets where the mintage was small in comparison to the bullion coins.
Time will tell. Anyone care to guess the number of unc platinum collectors? Am I underestimating the number?
Retired United States Mint guy, now working on an Everyman Type Set.
<< <i>Serious platinum collectors will buy whatever the Mint puts out, and so the Three-piece set is for them, whatever the denomination. But for those like myself, it's not essential. I bought a 2006-W $100 (PCGS70, FS no less) because I liked the design. But I think the 2008 is a PC joke, and wouldn't want one, except as bullion. >>
I would love to get one of these south of bullion price on eBay using an MSN 30% cash back deal. I think the next time it goes back up to 30% will be the time to strike on these if you want one.
<< <i>I think the continued focus on whether 2008 might be lower than 2006 or not misses the point.
We've grown used to looking for mintages on these, with the expectation that if the current year was any higher than previous years, the coins were dogs, and if they were lower, they were kings.
But the rules on platinum have changed. The uncirculated w sets are done. It now is a discrete, 3 year collectible set.
It's much less important whether 2006 is 200 coins lower or higher than 2008 for a particular denomination.
The important thing is that for any given denomination, the number of 3 year type sets possible will be capped at whatever the lowest mintage coin is for that denomination.
No matter what those numbers are, they're going to be under 3,000 for the $100, under 2,700 for the $25 and $50 and under 3,600 for the $10.
Whether that number drops to under 2,200 (for example) for the $50 instead of the current number of 2,600 is almost irrelevant, because it's already well under what I view as the threshhold number of 5,000.
On top of that, even the 2007 coins, with relatively high mintages, look phenomenal compared to other coin mintages of the last 80 years.
2007s were the dogs of platinum unc, with mintages of 3,800 to 4,000 for the $25, $50 and $100 and almost 6,000 for the $10. But how do those numbers stack up against other moderns?
2008 might be lower than 2006, it might not. We really won't know until the mintages are final. There's certainly reason to question the reported sales figures, but at the end of the day, we just have to wait to find out. Until then, if you DON'T have the 2008 w unc platinum coins and are interested in having one, they really haven't moved that much on the secondary market at this point, so there's still time to grab one up while at a great price. Low risk on the downside, and strong potential upside. >>
I agree completely!
It is, however, disturbing to me when it seems that the US MINT has so much difficulty counting. Particularyly when they are counting gold
and platinum coins. I wonder how many coins are "unaccounted for" each year?
<< <i>It is, however, disturbing to me when it seems that the US MINT has so much difficulty counting. Particularyly when they are counting gold and platinum coins. I wonder how many coins are "unaccounted for" each year? >>
They can't even keep track of their nukes! How do you expect them to watch coins?
This is what I think is the best way to go at this point and this is what I'm doing:
UNC-W keeping all 2008-w $10 plats keeping 5 outstanding 2008-w $25 plats -sending all the rest back today next day delivery. keeping 3 outstanding 2008-w $50 plats -sending all the rest back today next day delivery but ordering 8 new ones at $560 each with a new 30 day return option. Keeping my options open plus the halfs data is better behaved up till now. Sending back all 2008-w $100 plats
Proof plats Keeping 15 $10 proof plats and sending back only the dogs because I bought at $150 each and if the 08 plats end up strong the best coin based on percentage gain will be the $10 coins. * Rolling (buying and reterning) $25 and $50 proof plats until I end up with 3 excellent quarters and halves. Not buying extra of these coins to resell as I am holding the tenths for that purpose.
Unc "w" buffalos Gold Keeping all tenths good or bad Ordered 5 quarters and will keep the good ones
Proof buffs Gold Bought 5 tenths will keep the good ones Bought 5 quarters will keep the good ones
2008-w gold eagles Bought 5 $5 will keep the good ones Boguht 5 $10 will keep the good ones
I do not expect to buy much in the next 5 years after this. The mint is saying if they don't sell a bunch of a coin they do not intend to mess with it anymore and the fractional coins are the coins with the most collector appeal long term. DO NOT OVERLOOK FUNDAMENTAL STRUCTURE CHANGES IN MARKETS. WE ARE SEEING A LONG TERM STRUCTURE CHANGE IN THE MINTS OFFERINGS AND IT WILL IMPACT WHAT YOU CAN BUY AND WHAT IS WORTH HAVING OVER THE NEXT 10 YEARS........PRESPECTIVE GUYS KEEP A LONGER TERM PRESPECTIVE.
I really appreciate these boards, especially this thread. If anyone needed a template for what to do with his money, it's right here.
I'd wedge my own analysis and opinions in here, except that I agree with what's being observed and noted.
Step back and look at some other classic series that are now established history. Many of the keys occur at the end of the series as interest is waning. In this case, we also have an economic downturn as well.
Thanks, all.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
The best thread on the entire board , thank you all!! I am going to wait on my refund from the mint and hope like crazy that there is more transparency on what the real numbers are by then, and hope that everything is not sold out. I have kept all the sold out stuff.
I think Eric's point about the mint wanting to stick with fewer high production items confirms what I have suspected.
I believe the mint likely lost money on many of the sub 5,000 mintage coins. We always compare cost to PM content and we rarely consider the production and marketing cost which are significant particularly on low mintage coins with changing reverses. Consider cost of design, die production, special packaging, print material and last but not least PM pricing risk with 30 return policy. I'll bet the mint won't miss any of the Eagle/Buffalo discontinued products and will be glad to see them go.
The real take away message is the era of sub 5,000 mintage and maybe even sub 10,000 bullion based coins is OVER!!
It is my opinion that the numbers are completely screwed with and that in a few weeks people that returned their coins will be sorry that they did. That being said, when the mint dropped there price sometimes 50-100 dollars a coin, what is a blue collar worker to do. You could return, buy them again with an extra 1/2 ounce tacked on at the same price you purchased them originally. Then you run the risk of your order not being filled and being royally screwed. Anyway, I gotta believe that the sales numbers reflect the potentially huge ebb and flow of returned and repurchased coins as the spot price of precious metals rise and fall. The mint is not keeping track. Everything is a "sale" including the ones after they go DARK.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
I think USPS and UPS/ Fedex will all miss us next year.
Added: Here is a thought on how the market may see these UNC plats long term.
There is the view that the market can see them this way with the 2006 as an example:
2006 UNC
1 3068 1/2 2577 1/4 2676 1/10 3544
Each coin is a separate identity.
There is also the view that the market could see them this way:
2006 UNC
11,865
That is all 4 combined and would be the worst possible situation where every coin needs one collector.
So which is it?
Well, if we look at the Jackie Robinson there is no question it only needs 5174 collectors at most to squeeze the supply.
With the 2006 UNC plat it may take up to 11,865 collectors, so on that basis I am not sure it is clear to say the set is more rare than the Jackie R.
If one just looks at the 1/10 collectors then yes it is certainly more rare as that takes less than 3544 to squeeze things.
However as things get squeezed you think some collectors would opt for a larger coin so it may carry over to all the 4 coins.
I think the thing is at least to me there is a question on how to judge these coins as they are not a one size comparison. So had the mint only done 3544 1/10 coins with no 1/4 1/2 and 1 ounce then there is no question they would be below the Jackie R's. With the other coins though that brought more supply and is why the 1/10 is low. How this adds up only time will tell, but it is something that may matter.
PS Consider the opposite. Had they done the Jackie Robinson in 4 UNC sizes would that coin be selling for what it is today with three other sizes and the other three at the same mintages for a total of 20,696 between all four? That is the dilemma.
Next weeks numbers are going to be crazy as the 30 days return period expires. My coins had to be there before the 23rd, and I imagine a lot of folks are in the same position . If the mint adds the returns in promptly then I imagine a massive drop in numbers so it will take a few more weeks for reality to set in .
<< <i>Next weeks numbers are going to be crazy as the 30 days return period expires. My coins had to be there before the 23rd, and I imagine a lot of folks are in the same position . If the mint adds the returns in promptly then I imagine a massive drop in numbers so it will take a few more weeks for reality to set in . >>
I think you will be surprised since apparently the Mint has a lot of trouble with second grade math (addition and subtraction). They must have many unaccounted for coins each year.
I have a hard time returning at $319 each not a bad price at all for a modern rare coin.I think these will take off after all options are sold out.Those w unc gold eagles are starting to look good also.I bought 14 sets of 2006 platinum unc. and boy was it a great investment.I still kept 2 sets for long term.Hope these work out also
Thats a good point. Some of the first hags are first class ugly PC coins and they may see some lower mintages AND the mint is forced to strike them low mintage or not. The mint is not in control on the First Spouse set. There will be fewer fractional coins to chase in the future so that may concentrate demand on them to some extent......in the next few years the economy may create a few more low mintage coins on those items the mint is forced to produce.
<< <i>"The real take away message is the era of sub 5,000 mintage and maybe even sub 10,000 bullion based coins is OVER"
How about the first hags? >>
The Dolley Madison is still for sale on the mint website even though it has been over a year so they may strike 20,000 per coin and sell them until 2020 or until every last one sells out. The plat reverse proof set is back up for sale too and some people though that was gone for good so who knows.
i got my grades today from across the street, 44/44 ms70, thanks everyone for the heads up on the platinum unc w!!
001 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 002 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 003 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 004 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 005 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 006 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 007 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 008 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 009 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 010 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 011 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 012 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 013 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 014 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 015 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 016 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 017 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 018 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 019 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 020 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 021 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 022 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 023 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 024 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 025 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 026 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 027 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 028 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 029 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 030 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 031 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 032 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 033 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 034 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 035 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 036 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 037 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 038 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 039 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 040 2008 W EAGLE P$25 MS 70 041 2008 W EAGLE P$25 MS 70 042 2008 W EAGLE P$25 MS 70 043 2008 W EAGLE P$25 MS 70 044 2008 W EAGLE P$25 MS 70
<< <i>i got my grades today from across the street, 44/44 ms70, thanks everyone for the heads up on the platinum unc w!!
001 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 002 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 003 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 004 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 005 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 006 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 007 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 008 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 009 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 010 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 011 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 012 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 013 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 014 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 015 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 016 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 017 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 018 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 019 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 020 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 021 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 022 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 023 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 024 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 025 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 026 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 027 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 028 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 029 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 030 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 031 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 032 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 033 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 034 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 035 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 036 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 037 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 038 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 039 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70 040 2008 W EAGLE P$25 MS 70 041 2008 W EAGLE P$25 MS 70 042 2008 W EAGLE P$25 MS 70 043 2008 W EAGLE P$25 MS 70 044 2008 W EAGLE P$25 MS 70 >>
It's totally impossible for the Mint to have had 900 4 coin unc sets after they went on backorder. I wonder if they transposed the proof 4 coin sets with the unc? At any rate the Mint's stats are totally out of sync.
I have personally inquired with the USM Office of Public Affairs questioning the sales posted after backorder status was announced on the 1/10, 1/4 and 4 coin sets
The short answer is that they have no answer for me as to why they took orders after backorder status was announced.
They could not confirm that they had the stock to fill the orders they had taken after backorder status was announced.
They did not know how many coins were "struck" as opposed to "sales recorded". But did acknowledge that they understood what the meaning was for each.
Lots of unanswered questions. Lots of promises to get back to me with answers.
My phone is not ringing off the hook, and I can't get in touch with Mr. White who apparently is listed on the USM site as Office of Public Affairs.
Seems like they are avoiding these questions, or could care less.
As I recall we were all hoping a couple of weeks ago that the picture was going to start to look a little clearer by now. It sure doesn't appear that way.
I really don't get the most of the $ on these is pure hype comment? Most of What $.?? These are collector coins with small mintages and most if not all in the series are very affordable. Now if you meant to speculate years down the road that you don't believe these will be worth anything, then I disagree...
<< <i>weekly sales report 1116/2008 Unc-w plats $100...669 $50...1061 $25...2115 $10...2504 4 set 2165
Proof plats $100...1865 $50...927 $25...1157 $10...2528 4 set 1187
Eric...have you asked your source the obvious questions? If so....How have the sales numbers been determined...do they just keep a running total without subtracting returns? Have you asked how many coins were actually minted? Q&A is very very tight with precious metals at the mint...your source can easily find that out.
<< <i>Lots of unanswered questions. Lots of promises to get back to me with answers. My phone is not ringing off the hook, and I can't get in touch with Mr. White who apparently is listed on the USM site as Office of Public Affairs. Seems like they are avoiding these questions, or could care less. >>
Suggestion. Call your Congressman's office, tell them that, and ask them to get the answers for you.
Good deals with: goldman86 mkman123 Wingsrule wondercoin segoja Tccuga OKCC LindeDad and others.
So how many real collectors of the three year platinum series do you think there are? I suspect there are only about 1,000 real collectors as opposed to those who are looking to sell as soon as they get a good price.
There are also long-term investors who will not be flipping for a short-term profit. Also there will probably be many new "real collectors" in the future that will want the 3-year uncirculated sets because of their unified theme, low mintage and attractive designs.
That is all 4 combined and would be the worst possible situation where every coin needs one collector.
"Worst possible situation" is unlikely because of the diversity of collecting interests. There are "completists" who are wealthy enough to collect the 4-coin sets, registry set collectors of one or more denominations, those who choose to specialize in a particular denomination, type collectors who will buy the cheapest example at the time, "theme" collectors who want the complete three year series in one or more denominations, and casual accumulators who desire one or more specimens of a low-mintage coin at an affordable price.
Adding only a few dozen new collectors per year should be sufficient to create a steady increase in demand for the small number of existing 2006-W burnished platinum coins.
The 1/10 gold buffalo proof and 1/4 buffalo UNC are backorder so they must be gone too.
Last sales were:
9800 1/10 Buffalo proof 3391 1/4 UNC buffalo
Those are tiny for a one year issue! If they only did 6000 sets the 1/4 could be under 10k. I think it will be the key to the series and is also the closest to the buffalo nickle in size.
Also the 1/10 proof is less in sales than the 1/10 UNC which is odd. It will be the low mintage of the two perhaps.
Comments
It doesn't have to be in one or the other. Each of these coins can be a key in its series.
If you're looking for an opinion on the lowest mintage of what's listed, I don't think there's any question that it will be the platinum uncirculated coins.
Of course that is different from predicting that they have the most upside potential. The buffalos should have the most collector appeal --as gold coins, they have a broader collector base to begin with, and there's crossover appeal for the much larger base of buffalo nickel collectors.
<< <i>I have doubts about the numbers. Thats what I was told .........so I reported it. >>
Listen up folks, Eric says a lot in his shorter posts.
It is hard to believe there are more Unc platinum 2008-W sold than 2008-W Unc gold buffs
Are numbers accurate??
How do these compare to 2006-W??
I don't think the numbers Eric posted are for the 2008-W unc buffs, but for the American Eagle coins.
in terms of how 2008-w unc plats compare to 2006-w plats, we don't know yet. If people are right about errors in the reported sales numbers, it looks like they could be very close.
We've grown used to looking for mintages on these, with the expectation that if the current year was any higher than previous years, the coins were dogs, and if they were lower, they were kings.
But the rules on platinum have changed. The uncirculated w sets are done. It now is a discrete, 3 year collectible set.
It's much less important whether 2006 is 200 coins lower or higher than 2008 for a particular denomination.
The important thing is that for any given denomination, the number of 3 year type sets possible will be capped at whatever the lowest mintage coin is for that denomination.
No matter what those numbers are, they're going to be under 3,000 for the $100, under 2,700 for the $25 and $50 and under 3,600 for the $10.
Whether that number drops to under 2,200 (for example) for the $50 instead of the current number of 2,600 is almost irrelevant, because it's already well under what I view as the threshhold number of 5,000.
On top of that, even the 2007 coins, with relatively high mintages, look phenomenal compared to other coin mintages of the last 80 years.
2007s were the dogs of platinum unc, with mintages of 3,800 to 4,000 for the $25, $50 and $100 and almost 6,000 for the $10. But how do those numbers stack up against other moderns?
2008 might be lower than 2006, it might not. We really won't know until the mintages are final. There's certainly reason to question the reported sales figures, but at the end of the day, we just have to wait to find out. Until then, if you DON'T have the 2008 w unc platinum coins and are interested in having one, they really haven't moved that much on the secondary market at this point, so there's still time to grab one up while at a great price. Low risk on the downside, and strong potential upside.
my early American coins & currency: -- http://yankeedoodlecoins.com/
Time will tell. Anyone care to guess the number of unc platinum collectors? Am I underestimating the number?
<< <i>Serious platinum collectors will buy whatever the Mint puts out, and so the Three-piece set is for them, whatever the denomination. But for those like myself, it's not essential. I bought a 2006-W $100 (PCGS70, FS no less) because I liked the design. But I think the 2008 is a PC joke, and wouldn't want one, except as bullion. >>
I would love to get one of these south of bullion price on eBay using an MSN 30% cash back deal. I think the next time it goes back up to 30% will be the time to strike on these if you want one.
<< <i>I think the continued focus on whether 2008 might be lower than 2006 or not misses the point.
We've grown used to looking for mintages on these, with the expectation that if the current year was any higher than previous years, the coins were dogs, and if they were lower, they were kings.
But the rules on platinum have changed. The uncirculated w sets are done. It now is a discrete, 3 year collectible set.
It's much less important whether 2006 is 200 coins lower or higher than 2008 for a particular denomination.
The important thing is that for any given denomination, the number of 3 year type sets possible will be capped at whatever the lowest mintage coin is for that denomination.
No matter what those numbers are, they're going to be under 3,000 for the $100, under 2,700 for the $25 and $50 and under 3,600 for the $10.
Whether that number drops to under 2,200 (for example) for the $50 instead of the current number of 2,600 is almost irrelevant, because it's already well under what I view as the threshhold number of 5,000.
On top of that, even the 2007 coins, with relatively high mintages, look phenomenal compared to other coin mintages of the last 80 years.
2007s were the dogs of platinum unc, with mintages of 3,800 to 4,000 for the $25, $50 and $100 and almost 6,000 for the $10. But how do those numbers stack up against other moderns?
2008 might be lower than 2006, it might not. We really won't know until the mintages are final. There's certainly reason to question the reported sales figures, but at the end of the day, we just have to wait to find out. Until then, if you DON'T have the 2008 w unc platinum coins and are interested in having one, they really haven't moved that much on the secondary market at this point, so there's still time to grab one up while at a great price. Low risk on the downside, and strong potential upside. >>
I agree completely!
It is, however, disturbing to me when it seems that the US MINT has so much difficulty counting. Particularyly when they are counting gold
and platinum coins. I wonder how many coins are "unaccounted for" each year?
<< <i>
<< <i>It is, however, disturbing to me when it seems that the US MINT has so much difficulty counting. Particularyly when they are counting gold and platinum coins. I wonder how many coins are "unaccounted for" each year? >>
They can't even keep track of their nukes! How do you expect them to watch coins?
UNC-W
keeping all 2008-w $10 plats
keeping 5 outstanding 2008-w $25 plats -sending all the rest back today next day delivery.
keeping 3 outstanding 2008-w $50 plats -sending all the rest back today next day delivery but ordering 8 new ones at $560 each with a new 30 day return option. Keeping my options open plus the halfs data is better behaved up till now.
Sending back all 2008-w $100 plats
Proof plats
Keeping 15 $10 proof plats and sending back only the dogs because I bought at $150 each and if the 08 plats end up strong the best coin based on percentage gain will be the $10 coins.
*
Rolling (buying and reterning) $25 and $50 proof plats until I end up with 3 excellent quarters and halves. Not buying extra of these coins to resell as I am holding the tenths for that purpose.
Unc "w" buffalos Gold
Keeping all tenths good or bad
Ordered 5 quarters and will keep the good ones
Proof buffs Gold
Bought 5 tenths will keep the good ones
Bought 5 quarters will keep the good ones
2008-w gold eagles
Bought 5 $5 will keep the good ones
Boguht 5 $10 will keep the good ones
I do not expect to buy much in the next 5 years after this. The mint is saying if they don't sell a bunch of a coin they do not intend to mess with it anymore and the fractional coins are the coins with the most collector appeal long term. DO NOT OVERLOOK FUNDAMENTAL STRUCTURE CHANGES IN MARKETS. WE ARE SEEING A LONG TERM STRUCTURE CHANGE IN THE MINTS OFFERINGS AND IT WILL IMPACT WHAT YOU CAN BUY AND WHAT IS WORTH HAVING OVER THE NEXT 10 YEARS........PRESPECTIVE GUYS KEEP A LONGER TERM PRESPECTIVE.
Eric
I'd wedge my own analysis and opinions in here, except that I agree with what's being observed and noted.
Step back and look at some other classic series that are now established history. Many of the keys occur at the end of the series as interest is waning. In this case, we also have an economic downturn as well.
Thanks, all.
I knew it would happen.
I am going to wait on my refund from the mint and hope like crazy that there is more transparency on what the real numbers are by then, and hope that everything is not sold out. I have kept all the sold out stuff.
I believe the mint likely lost money on many of the sub 5,000 mintage coins.
We always compare cost to PM content and we rarely consider the production and marketing cost which are significant particularly on low mintage coins with changing reverses. Consider cost of design, die production, special packaging, print material and last but not least PM pricing risk with 30 return policy. I'll bet the mint won't miss any of the Eagle/Buffalo discontinued products and will be glad to see them go.
The real take away message is the era of sub 5,000 mintage and maybe even sub 10,000 bullion based coins is OVER!!
Anyway, I gotta believe that the sales numbers reflect the potentially huge ebb and flow of returned and repurchased coins as the spot price of precious metals rise and fall. The mint is not keeping track. Everything is a "sale" including the ones after they go DARK.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Added: Here is a thought on how the market may see these UNC plats long term.
There is the view that the market can see them this way with the 2006 as an example:
2006 UNC
1 3068
1/2 2577
1/4 2676
1/10 3544
Each coin is a separate identity.
There is also the view that the market could see them this way:
2006 UNC
11,865
That is all 4 combined and would be the worst possible situation where every coin needs one collector.
So which is it?
Well, if we look at the Jackie Robinson there is no question it only needs 5174 collectors at most to squeeze the supply.
With the 2006 UNC plat it may take up to 11,865 collectors, so on that basis I am not sure it is clear to say the set is more rare than the Jackie R.
If one just looks at the 1/10 collectors then yes it is certainly more rare as that takes less than 3544 to squeeze things.
However as things get squeezed you think some collectors would opt for a larger coin so it may carry over to all the 4 coins.
I think the thing is at least to me there is a question on how to judge these coins as they are not a one size comparison. So had the mint only done 3544 1/10 coins with no 1/4 1/2 and 1 ounce then there is no question they would be below the Jackie R's. With the other coins though that brought more supply and is why the 1/10 is low. How this adds up only time will tell, but it is something that may matter.
PS Consider the opposite. Had they done the Jackie Robinson in 4 UNC sizes would that coin be selling for what it is today with three other sizes and the other three at the same mintages for a total of 20,696 between all four? That is the dilemma.
San Diego, CA
<< <i>Next weeks numbers are going to be crazy as the 30 days return period expires. My coins had to be there before the 23rd, and I imagine a lot of folks are in the same position . If the mint adds the returns in promptly then I imagine a massive drop in numbers so it will take a few more weeks for reality to set in . >>
I think you will be surprised since apparently the Mint has a lot of trouble with second grade math (addition and subtraction). They must have many unaccounted for coins each year.
<< <i>Does the returns have to get there within 30 days of receiving the item? or be in the mail within 30 days? >>
I dont know , but I erred on the side of caution and they will be there within the 30 days period
<< <i>my order on 10/21 at 4:56 est. for the 1/4 oz plat unc. just went from backordered to instock. >>
LOL. All those returns are hitting about now. Mine are on their way back too.
LISTEN TO WHAT THIS GUY IS SAYING! THIS IS THE POINT WE CAN NOT OVERLOOK!
How about the first hags?
<< <i>"The real take away message is the era of sub 5,000 mintage and maybe even sub 10,000 bullion based coins is OVER"
How about the first hags? >>
The Dolley Madison is still for sale on the mint website even though it has been over a year so they may strike 20,000 per coin and sell them until 2020 or until every last one sells out. The plat reverse proof set is back up for sale too and some people though that was gone for good so who knows.
001 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
002 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
003 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
004 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
005 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
006 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
007 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
008 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
009 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
010 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
011 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
012 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
013 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
014 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
015 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
016 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
017 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
018 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
019 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
020 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
021 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
022 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
023 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
024 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
025 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
026 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
027 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
028 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
029 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
030 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
031 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
032 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
033 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
034 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
035 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
036 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
037 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
038 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
039 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
040 2008 W EAGLE P$25 MS 70
041 2008 W EAGLE P$25 MS 70
042 2008 W EAGLE P$25 MS 70
043 2008 W EAGLE P$25 MS 70
044 2008 W EAGLE P$25 MS 70
<< <i>i got my grades today from across the street, 44/44 ms70, thanks everyone for the heads up on the platinum unc w!!
001 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
002 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
003 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
004 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
005 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
006 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
007 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
008 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
009 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
010 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
011 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
012 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
013 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
014 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
015 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
016 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
017 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
018 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
019 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
020 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
021 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
022 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
023 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
024 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
025 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
026 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
027 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
028 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
029 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
030 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
031 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
032 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
033 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
034 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
035 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
036 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
037 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
038 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
039 2008 W EAGLE P$10 MS 70
040 2008 W EAGLE P$25 MS 70
041 2008 W EAGLE P$25 MS 70
042 2008 W EAGLE P$25 MS 70
043 2008 W EAGLE P$25 MS 70
044 2008 W EAGLE P$25 MS 70 >>
Why NGC? PCGS 70's will bring better $$ always!!
<< <i>Why NGC >>
Maybe 44 out of 44 being 70 has something to do with it?
FloridaBill
<< <i>
<< <i>Why NGC >>
Maybe 44 out of 44 being 70 has something to do with it?
FloridaBill >>
For sure.
<< <i>these were not good enough for pcgs, that's why i sent them to ngc, bad nicks on the rim of the coin, most in the same spot. >>
Wow, not exactly a glowing review of NGC standards!! Not good at all....
Normally with a sell out the flippers come out of the woodwork. The last sale was $2,050 for a raw set.
Is it the greater than expected mintage, cost, or simply unwillingness to let go of the sets?
From its high of $2200+ back in late May into June down to what barely $800 these days.
I'm sure everyone that bought these at $2000+K for these better hold on to their pants for awhile.
I'm glad I got out most of my plats back when the going was good, now I can buy them back for less than half.
Eric I've been reading this thread for quite some time most of the $'s on these coins is pure hype and you know it.
Points out that finally his 1/4 unc plat ordered on 10/21 (backorder day) at 4:56pm now went to in stock.....
with a return, of course.
This only furthers the point that 1300-1500 orders are "excess" orders, exceeding available inventory of the 1/4 oz coin.
The short answer is that they have no answer for me as to why they took orders after backorder status was announced.
They could not confirm that they had the stock to fill the orders they had taken after backorder status was announced.
They did not know how many coins were "struck" as opposed to "sales recorded". But did acknowledge that they understood what the meaning was for each.
Lots of unanswered questions. Lots of promises to get back to me with answers.
My phone is not ringing off the hook, and I can't get in touch with Mr. White who apparently is listed on the USM site as Office of Public Affairs.
Seems like they are avoiding these questions, or could care less.
<< <i>weekly sales report 1116/2008
Unc-w plats
$100...669
$50...1061
$25...2115
$10...2504
4 set 2165
Proof plats
$100...1865
$50...927
$25...1157
$10...2528
4 set 1187
Eric...have you asked your source the obvious questions? If so....How have the sales numbers been determined...do they just keep a running total without subtracting returns? Have you asked how many coins were actually minted? Q&A is very very tight with precious metals at the mint...your source can easily find that out.
<< <i>
<< <i>these were not good enough for pcgs, that's why i sent them to ngc, bad nicks on the rim of the coin, most in the same spot. >>
Wow, not exactly a glowing review of NGC standards!! Not good at all.... >>
This is why NGC 70's consistently sell for the same price as PCGS 69's.
<< <i>Lots of unanswered questions. Lots of promises to get back to me with answers. My phone is not ringing off the hook, and I can't get in touch with Mr. White who apparently is listed on the USM site as Office of Public Affairs. Seems like they are avoiding these questions, or could care less. >>
Suggestion. Call your Congressman's office, tell them that, and ask them to get the answers for you.
my early American coins & currency: -- http://yankeedoodlecoins.com/
There are also long-term investors who will not be flipping for a short-term profit. Also there will probably be many new "real collectors" in the future that will want the 3-year uncirculated sets because of their unified theme, low mintage and attractive designs.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
11,865
That is all 4 combined and would be the worst possible situation where every coin needs one collector.
"Worst possible situation" is unlikely because of the diversity of collecting interests. There are "completists" who are wealthy enough to collect the 4-coin sets, registry set collectors of one or more denominations, those who choose to specialize in a particular denomination, type collectors who will buy the cheapest example at the time, "theme" collectors who want the complete three year series in one or more denominations, and casual accumulators who desire one or more specimens of a low-mintage coin at an affordable price.
Adding only a few dozen new collectors per year should be sufficient to create a steady increase in demand for the small number of existing 2006-W burnished platinum coins.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Last sales were:
9800 1/10 Buffalo proof
3391 1/4 UNC buffalo
Those are tiny for a one year issue! If they only did 6000 sets the 1/4 could be under 10k. I think it will be the key to the series and is also the closest to the buffalo nickle in size.
Also the 1/10 proof is less in sales than the 1/10 UNC which is odd. It will be the low mintage of the two perhaps.