Guys I have been accused of only liking plats (which is not true). The plats are fantastic and will be more so in the future but as I mentioned a few days ago the gold buffalos could be killers because the design is so well liked on a one year type issue.
I suggest buying all gold proof and unc "w" buffalos and 2008"w" unc platinum halves NOW.....................RIGHT NOW!!!
Be aggressive because later you will not have the chance at least not from the mint.
<< <i>Guys I have been accused of only liking plats (which is not true). The plats are fantastic and will be more so in the future but as I mentioned a few days ago the gold buffalos could be killers because the design is so well liked on a one year type issue.
I suggest buying all gold proof and unc "w" buffalos and 2008"w" unc platinum halves NOW.....................RIGHT NOW!!!
Be aggressive because later you will not have the chance at least not from the mint. >>
I recommend buy the 4 coin sets of both the Proof and Unc Buffaloes, then later when those are sold out move on to the AGE 4 coin sets. Collectors are going to want the sets more than just the individual coins since this is a one year issue.
It is clear that the period of US MInt producing sub 5,000-10,000 coins is at an end.
The financial markets are in panic mode.................US Treasury is looking to raise over 1 TRILLION in new funds over next 180 days. This at a time that traditional buyers..........China, Japan, etc. all have major issues with their own economies.
What does this have to do with coins?? Mr Ben B. made his name studing the Great Depression and the cause and effects of deflation. We have signs of deflation now with oil down 66% and housing down 15-30% and falling.
Mr. Ben will throw EVERYTHING at markets to prevent deflation. Risk of overshooting and producing inflation with panic buying and hoarding is huge.
Gold is a traditional safe haven in time of turmoil. Buying Gold Buffalos now may not make you any money on a quick flip(I doubt anything would today) but IMO it is a great play 1-3 years out and beyond.
Many causal collectors don't even know the buffalos exist. Many who have seen the 1 oz slugs don't realize the fractional exist! Even fewer realize they are ending at this very moment!
I recommend buy the 4 coin sets of both the Proof and Unc Buffaloes, then later when those are sold out move on to the AGE 4 coin sets. Collectors are going to want the sets more than just the individual coins since this is a one year issue.
I took your advice this morning, four times.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Look at the $50 (one once) buffalo gold unc coin with the "w" mint mark. Its going to be a 20,000-30,000 mintage coin. BUT the $50 buffalo has sold since 2006 and will continue for years according to the mint. Notice that the lowest mintage on the $50 unc gold without mint marks is 150,000+ three years running. Now I know my math is not the best (being an NS State engineer by backgroud) but thats six time rarer than the typical run and its going to be the ONLY one with a mint mart for years!
Guys these "w" mint mark gold eagles are going to be something to behold when they grow up as are the platinum eagles............
Destined to be amoung Kings: 1999, 2006, 2007, 2008 "W" FIVE & TEN DOLLAR UNC GOLD EAGLES THIS YEARS GOLD BUFFALOS except for one once bullion ALL THE PLATINUM EAGLES WITH MINTAGES LESS THAN 7,000 (well thats almost all of them in the last five years)
That had to be the best week ever for the platinum unc. eagles. I wonder why so many people decided to jump on board all at once since the aftermarket price isn't doing anything special here.
<< <i>That had to be the best week ever for the platinum unc. eagles. I wonder why so many people decided to jump on board all at once since the aftermarket price isn't doing anything special here. >>
Particularly since they were already on back order that week!
I just returned an UNC $50 Plat, for three reasons:
1. I have since ordered the 4 coin set 2. The price was reduced since I ordered it. I can still re-order until it goes dark. 3. It had a spot, so I don't think it would sticker.
<< <i>I just returned an UNC $50 Plat, for three reasons:
1. I have since ordered the 4 coin set 2. The price was reduced since I ordered it. I can still re-order until it goes dark. 3. It had a spot, so I don't think it would sticker. >>
If anyone wants to sell their 1/10 and 1/4 ounce 2008 Unc Plats at original cost, just let me know...I take some of this sub 5,000 mintage "modern garbage" off their hands!
<< <i>If anyone wants to sell their 1/10 and 1/4 ounce 2008 Unc Plats at original cost, just let me know...I take some of this sub 5,000 mintage "modern garbage" off their hands!
I won't even quibble about a grade of 69 vs 70.
>>
I saw a pcgs ms69 1/4 oz on eBay yestersday with a bin that if you use ms cashback would be under $300.
<< <i>If anyone wants to sell their 1/10 and 1/4 ounce 2008 Unc Plats at original cost, just let me know...I take some of this sub 5,000 mintage "modern garbage" off their hands!
I won't even quibble about a grade of 69 vs 70.
>>
How many do you want?
Coin Collector, Chicken Owner, Licensed Tax Preparer & Insurance Broker/Agent. San Diego, CA
<< <i>If anyone wants to sell their 1/10 and 1/4 ounce 2008 Unc Plats at original cost, just let me know...I take some of this sub 5,000 mintage "modern garbage" off their hands!
I won't even quibble about a grade of 69 vs 70.
>>
I listed both 1/4 and 1/2 unc Plats on the BST board at the Mint's prices with no takers. Ended up sending them back last week.
<< <i>If anyone wants to sell their 1/10 and 1/4 ounce 2008 Unc Plats at original cost, just let me know...I take some of this sub 5,000 mintage "modern garbage" off their hands!
I won't even quibble about a grade of 69 vs 70.
>>
I listed both 1/4 and 1/2 unc Plats on the BST board at the Mint's prices with no takers. Ended up sending them back last week. >>
The evildoer that I am, I only have a very few that I cherry picked! LMAO
"Eric...have you asked your source the obvious questions? If so....How have the sales numbers been determined...do they just keep a running total without subtracting returns? Have you asked how many coins were actually minted? Q&A is very very tight with precious metals at the mint...your source can easily find that out."
The weekly sales report is the number of orders recieved into their system. It is a real time order total. It is only a general guide and does not reflect returns in process or changes in order status. Beyond that I don't know and the person I talk to does not know.
The real problem is not the weekly sales report. The problem is all the old relationships that used to hold and help me sort out what is going on are no longer valid.......
THE OLD RULES DO NOT APPLY ANYMORE AND THE MINT IS GETTING OUT OF THE LOW MINTAGE COINS BUSINESS AND THEY ARE GOING TO TAKE THE FINANCIAL HIT AND MOVE ON!
The weekly sales report is the number of orders recieved into their system. It is a real time order total. It is only a general guide and does not reflect returns in process or changes in order status. Beyond that I don't know and the person I talk to does not know.
The real problem is not the weekly sales report. The problem is all the old relationships that used to hold and help me sort out what is going on are no longer valid.......
THE OLD RULES DO NOT APPLY ANYMORE AND THE MINT IS GETTING OUT OF THE LOW MINTAGE COINS BUSINESS AND THEY ARE GOING TO TAKE THE FINANCIAL HIT AND MOVE ON!
Thanks
Eric >>
So these are orders booked, and not orders shipped, right?
Coin Collector, Chicken Owner, Licensed Tax Preparer & Insurance Broker/Agent. San Diego, CA
yes when you try to add to cart it says product not available.I noticed the 1oz buffalo proof is not on list of product not available.Maybe they are thinking of making more
between 1000-1200 or more (as many as 1500) orders for the 1/4 oz unc plat were taken and added to the report - THAT HAVE NOT BEEN REC'D BY CUSTOMERS AS OF THIS DATE - 1 MONTH!!! AFTER SALES went into backorder
same thing with several other denoms of plat unc's.
same thing happened in 06.
what other evidence do we need that the sales report IS NOT orders shipped.....but rather ORDERS TAKEN.
there - I answered it!!!
What we dont know is if there is INVENTORY available to be shipped. By the 30 day lapse and those orders NOT being filled, I doubt it very highly.
Yeh #s are crazy.I did get my order on the 1/4 plat unc 10/21 4:56 order from backordered to instock and cancel box is gone today.My other orders a few minuets later were still backordered.I went ahead and cancel my other 20 I had on backorder.That still leaves me with 15 1/4oz left.I did order a few more unc buffalo sets a few minuets ago.I think these will sell out next.
The weekly sales report is the number of orders recieved into their system. It is a real time order total. It is only a general guide and does not reflect returns in process or changes in order status. Beyond that I don't know and the person I talk to does not know.
The real problem is not the weekly sales report. The problem is all the old relationships that used to hold and help me sort out what is going on are no longer valid.......
THE OLD RULES DO NOT APPLY ANYMORE AND THE MINT IS GETTING OUT OF THE LOW MINTAGE COINS BUSINESS AND THEY ARE GOING TO TAKE THE FINANCIAL HIT AND MOVE ON!
Thanks
Eric >>
Hi Eric-
Do you know if the weekly sales reports take into account returns that HAVE processed (as opposed to those in process)?
Whoa! A very definitive statement on the numbers. Hopefully the next mint rep that's talked to doesn't reverse it. I guess that confirms that we really don't know anything about a specific issue/denomination's numbers until it goes black. Only then can a good, educated guess be made at the actual mintage number.
<< <i>Thanks to the mint tinkering around with the numbers I have actually put more into the buffalo fractionals than these plat coins. I am probably holding whatever they ship but I am not buying anymore >>
Me too. I think the plats still have a chance, but the Buffs seem like a no-brainer at this point!
Anyway for the plat series the worry is they are continuing the plat bullion coins and those sell on Ebay and are the cheap competitor to these W coins.
Answer: I do not agree, the plats are a type set and the uncs with the same old eagle over the sun reverse are not a substitute good for series type collecting.
The buffalo fractionals have no cheap competitor with the same design on the obverse, it is the complete opposite. They have more demand as I see it, buffalo nickle collectors, jewelry demand, old gold eagle collectors, gold type collectors, bullion gold demand, and also the most popular design for a coin at least shown by the silver commemorative.
Agreed.
Anyway I am not saying these plat W coins are not a good investment, I think the three coin set will be a classic. They could be very good, even better than the buffalos. But it may take longer for that to happen that is why I like both and own both. By next summer we will have all the final numbers and see how good or bad we did, the thing is the plats today are selling for what may be spot platinum prices in two or three years. At worst they are a bullion investment, at best they are the rare moderns we hope they will be recognized as. >>
Interesting conversations about plats and buffs and possibly eagles.
My thought all along was that if there was no convincing sign that the 08-W APE uncs aren't the king, dethroning 06-W, my money will divert to Buffs and AGE (both uncs). Like Eric said his info source has had changes. I have what I want in plat-ville.
The one-year Buff is too yummy to pass up. Especially now when the 1/4 unc. went dark. That to me is surprising. These numbers will be lower than I would have thought. I was looking at 15,000-20,000. Look at the zaniness the 2001 Buffalo Silver dollars garnered. I know that's a different demographic and highly promoted (high mintage to boot), but I can see some spill over with the lower fractionals in time. When gold resumes it's climb these Buffs (and AGEs) will look very nice.
Now to the 2008-W AGE uncs, look at the numbers from 2006-W, 2007-W and compare to possible 2008-W numbers. Put that on a graph and it resembles the stock market. Can someone post the first two years of AGE uncs?
Comments
I suggest buying all gold proof and unc "w" buffalos and 2008"w" unc platinum halves NOW.....................RIGHT NOW!!!
Be aggressive because later you will not have the chance at least not from the mint.
<< <i>Guys I have been accused of only liking plats (which is not true). The plats are fantastic and will be more so in the future but as I mentioned a few days ago the gold buffalos could be killers because the design is so well liked on a one year type issue.
I suggest buying all gold proof and unc "w" buffalos and 2008"w" unc platinum halves NOW.....................RIGHT NOW!!!
Be aggressive because later you will not have the chance at least not from the mint. >>
I recommend buy the 4 coin sets of both the Proof and Unc Buffaloes, then later when those are sold out move on to the AGE 4 coin sets. Collectors are going to want the sets more than just the individual coins since this is a one year issue.
It is clear that the period of US MInt producing sub 5,000-10,000 coins is at an end.
The financial markets are in panic mode.................US Treasury is looking to raise over 1 TRILLION in new funds over next 180 days.
This at a time that traditional buyers..........China, Japan, etc. all have major issues with their own economies.
What does this have to do with coins?? Mr Ben B. made his name studing the Great Depression and the cause and effects of deflation.
We have signs of deflation now with oil down 66% and housing down 15-30% and falling.
Mr. Ben will throw EVERYTHING at markets to prevent deflation. Risk of overshooting and producing inflation with panic buying and hoarding is huge.
Gold is a traditional safe haven in time of turmoil. Buying Gold Buffalos now may not make you any money on a quick flip(I doubt anything would today) but IMO it is a great play 1-3 years out and beyond.
Many causal collectors don't even know the buffalos exist. Many who have seen the 1 oz slugs don't realize the fractional exist!
Even fewer realize they are ending at this very moment!
Last call!! All ABOARD!!!
I took your advice this morning, four times.
I knew it would happen.
Numismatic News
November 20, 2008 Stats
$25 unc plat slightly less than previously reported.
Look at the $50 (one once) buffalo gold unc coin with the "w" mint mark. Its going to be a 20,000-30,000 mintage coin. BUT the $50 buffalo has sold since 2006 and will continue for years according to the mint. Notice that the lowest mintage on the $50 unc gold without mint marks is 150,000+ three years running. Now I know my math is not the best (being an NS State engineer by backgroud) but thats six time rarer than the typical run and its going to be the ONLY one with a mint mart for years!
Guys these "w" mint mark gold eagles are going to be something to behold when they grow up as are the platinum eagles............
Destined to be amoung Kings:
1999, 2006, 2007, 2008 "W" FIVE & TEN DOLLAR UNC GOLD EAGLES
THIS YEARS GOLD BUFFALOS except for one once bullion
ALL THE PLATINUM EAGLES WITH MINTAGES LESS THAN 7,000 (well thats almost all of them in the last five years)
<< <i>That had to be the best week ever for the platinum unc. eagles. I wonder why so many people decided to jump on board all at once since the aftermarket price isn't doing anything special here. >>
Particularly since they were already on back order that week!
<< <i>Can there really be 2100 sets of Platinum uncs? >>
Logic tells me no, as the Mint only minted one run of the coins. The sets went on back order at 1257 so where would additional sets come from?
1. I have since ordered the 4 coin set
2. The price was reduced since I ordered it. I can still re-order until it goes dark.
3. It had a spot, so I don't think it would sticker.
<< <i>I just returned an UNC $50 Plat, for three reasons:
1. I have since ordered the 4 coin set
2. The price was reduced since I ordered it. I can still re-order until it goes dark.
3. It had a spot, so I don't think it would sticker.
OMG! How dare you abuse the system like that!!!
I won't even quibble about a grade of 69 vs 70.
<< <i>If anyone wants to sell their 1/10 and 1/4 ounce 2008 Unc Plats at original cost, just let me know...I take some of this sub 5,000 mintage "modern garbage" off their hands!
I won't even quibble about a grade of 69 vs 70.
I saw a pcgs ms69 1/4 oz on eBay yestersday with a bin that if you use ms cashback would be under $300.
<< <i>If anyone wants to sell their 1/10 and 1/4 ounce 2008 Unc Plats at original cost, just let me know...I take some of this sub 5,000 mintage "modern garbage" off their hands!
I won't even quibble about a grade of 69 vs 70.
How many do you want?
San Diego, CA
<< <i>If anyone wants to sell their 1/10 and 1/4 ounce 2008 Unc Plats at original cost, just let me know...I take some of this sub 5,000 mintage "modern garbage" off their hands!
I won't even quibble about a grade of 69 vs 70.
I listed both 1/4 and 1/2 unc Plats on the BST board at the Mint's prices with no takers. Ended up sending them back last week.
<< <i>
<< <i>If anyone wants to sell their 1/10 and 1/4 ounce 2008 Unc Plats at original cost, just let me know...I take some of this sub 5,000 mintage "modern garbage" off their hands!
I won't even quibble about a grade of 69 vs 70.
I listed both 1/4 and 1/2 unc Plats on the BST board at the Mint's prices with no takers. Ended up sending them back last week. >>
The evildoer that I am, I only have a very few that I cherry picked! LMAO
AND I AM DAMN WELL GLAD I SENT THE REST BACK!
Here it is again just in case you did not see it:
"Eric...have you asked your source the obvious questions? If so....How have the sales numbers been determined...do they just keep a running total without subtracting returns? Have you asked how many coins were actually minted? Q&A is very very tight with precious metals at the mint...your source can easily find that out."
The weekly sales report is the number of orders recieved into their system. It is a real time order total. It is only a general guide and does not reflect returns in process or changes in order status. Beyond that I don't know and the person I talk to does not know.
The real problem is not the weekly sales report. The problem is all the old relationships that used to hold and help me sort out what is going on are no longer valid.......
THE OLD RULES DO NOT APPLY ANYMORE AND THE MINT IS GETTING OUT OF THE LOW MINTAGE COINS BUSINESS AND THEY ARE GOING TO TAKE THE FINANCIAL HIT AND MOVE ON!
Thanks
Eric
<< <i>Groht,
The weekly sales report is the number of orders recieved into their system. It is a real time order total. It is only a general guide and does not reflect returns in process or changes in order status. Beyond that I don't know and the person I talk to does not know.
The real problem is not the weekly sales report. The problem is all the old relationships that used to hold and help me sort out what is going on are no longer valid.......
THE OLD RULES DO NOT APPLY ANYMORE AND THE MINT IS GETTING OUT OF THE LOW MINTAGE COINS BUSINESS AND THEY ARE GOING TO TAKE THE FINANCIAL HIT AND MOVE ON!
Thanks
Eric >>
So these are orders booked, and not orders shipped, right?
San Diego, CA
That is strange, the 1/4 unc Buffs show that they are B/O and they show on the no longer available list at the same time ?
because
between 1000-1200 or more (as many as 1500) orders for the 1/4 oz unc plat were taken and added to the report - THAT HAVE NOT BEEN REC'D BY CUSTOMERS AS OF THIS DATE - 1 MONTH!!! AFTER SALES went into backorder
same thing with several other denoms of plat unc's.
same thing happened in 06.
what other evidence do we need that the sales report IS NOT orders shipped.....but rather ORDERS TAKEN.
there - I answered it!!!
What we dont know is if there is INVENTORY available to be shipped. By the 30 day lapse and those orders NOT being filled, I doubt it very highly.
San Diego, CA
How about a giveaway?
<< <i>Anyone taking odds on the day and time when the prices of Au and Pt will intersect?
How about a giveaway? >>
Tomorrow.
San Diego, CA
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
1/10 oz Proofs
1 oz Proofs
1/10th oz Uncs
1/4th oz Uncs
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Groht,
The weekly sales report is the number of orders recieved into their system. It is a real time order total. It is only a general guide and does not reflect returns in process or changes in order status. Beyond that I don't know and the person I talk to does not know.
The real problem is not the weekly sales report. The problem is all the old relationships that used to hold and help me sort out what is going on are no longer valid.......
THE OLD RULES DO NOT APPLY ANYMORE AND THE MINT IS GETTING OUT OF THE LOW MINTAGE COINS BUSINESS AND THEY ARE GOING TO TAKE THE FINANCIAL HIT AND MOVE ON!
Thanks
Eric >>
Hi Eric-
Do you know if the weekly sales reports take into account returns that HAVE processed (as opposed to those in process)?
Many thanks for your most informative commentary!
good point. If backorders cancel their orders, the numbers will drastically change
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
<< <i>THE WEEKLY SALES REPORT IS ORDERS NOT SALES-THIS IS FROM THE MINT. >>
Now if only we can get everyone to cancel their b/o orders.
I will lead by example, I canceled all of mine.
San Diego, CA
<<I had one UNC APE 4 coin set that was "in stock and reserved" and I just canceled it last night. That should help someone. LOL>>
I'll let you know when I receive your reject...anything I should know about it?
<< <i>Thanks to the mint tinkering around with the numbers I have actually put more into the buffalo fractionals than these plat coins. I am probably holding whatever they ship but I am not buying anymore >>
Me too. I think the plats still have a chance, but the Buffs seem like a no-brainer at this point!
Answer: I do not agree, the plats are a type set and the uncs with the same old eagle over the sun reverse are not a substitute good for series type collecting.
The buffalo fractionals have no cheap competitor with the same design on the obverse, it is the complete opposite. They have more demand as I see it, buffalo nickle collectors, jewelry demand, old gold eagle collectors, gold type collectors, bullion gold demand, and also the most popular design for a coin at least shown by the silver commemorative.
Agreed.
Anyway I am not saying these plat W coins are not a good investment, I think the three coin set will be a classic. They could be very good, even better than the buffalos. But it may take longer for that to happen that is why I like both and own both. By next summer we will have all the final numbers and see how good or bad we did, the thing is the plats today are selling for what may be spot platinum prices in two or three years. At worst they are a bullion investment, at best they are the rare moderns we hope they will be recognized as. >>
Agreed
My thought all along was that if there was no convincing sign that the 08-W APE uncs aren't the king, dethroning 06-W, my money will divert to Buffs and AGE (both uncs). Like Eric said his info source has had changes. I have what I want in plat-ville.
The one-year Buff is too yummy to pass up. Especially now when the 1/4 unc. went dark. That to me is surprising. These numbers will be lower than I would have thought. I was looking at 15,000-20,000. Look at the zaniness the 2001 Buffalo Silver dollars garnered. I know that's a different demographic and highly promoted (high mintage to boot), but I can see some spill over with the lower fractionals in time.
When gold resumes it's climb these Buffs (and AGEs) will look very nice.
Now to the 2008-W AGE uncs, look at the numbers from 2006-W, 2007-W and compare to possible 2008-W numbers. Put that on a graph and it resembles the stock market.
Can someone post the first two years of AGE uncs?
Ren