I have stated before, I am very fond of this series. The difficulty and expense of any coin in the series really places acquiring one out of my range. I will not deep dive into Hansen’s early coinage, but will save for another day. He is not known to have a “World-Class” set of early coins. Not yet anyway. But what is his goal? Is to better Eliasberg? Or better everyone? That’s a question that we will see answered not over the next few months, rather several years from now. So, where does he rank in the Early Half Eagle Gold Basic Set? He is about 5 grade points better than Eliasberg (61 vs 56). He is more than 6 grade points better than Garrett. Ten points better than Norweb. Here is a couple more; he is about 0.6 point better that Bass. Yes, that is correct, his grade for early half eagles is better than Bass. He is even a couple points better than Smithsonian National Numismatic Collection. Does this make him World Class? I don’t know how his collection would stack up to Lilly, and some of the other famous gold collections. Also, I don’t know how he would stack up to the underground sets that we hear rumors about. I do know he is almost two points below D. Brent Pogue. This is the only set in the registry with a better average grade point. I am interested to find out what it takes to be World-Class.
This upgrade is a nice one. I don’t see this being as controversial as some of his recent upgrades. I have found one other 1802/1 Half Eagle in Hansen’s collection. There may be more. The other specimen is a MS64 16/5. The MS64 was purchased at the Heritage 4/2017 CSNS Signature Auction in Chicago. The coin realized $39,950.
1802/1 $5 MS664+ CAC Cert 08015765 PCGS POP 4/2
This is an amazing specimen that is replacing an amazing specimen. This replacement speaks to the collection that Hansen is assembling. This coin was purchase at the Heritage 3/2019 Signature Auction. The coin realized $52,800. The coin appeared in a Great Collections Auction - April 08, 2018, where t realized $55,125. PCGS Coin Values place the coin at $60,000.
This is a Bass-Dannreuther Die State B-8. I am not sure if this is the first hint that Hansen may be taking aim at early gold die states. If so, it will be a big undertaking. Just for the 1802/1, there are eight distinguished die states. WOW! If that is what taking place. This is Heritage description of the die: 1802/1 $5 BD-8, R.4, MS64+ PCGS. CAC. Bass-Dannreuther Die State c/b, with the die crack through UNI in UNITED. A substantial mintage of 53,176 Capped Bust Right half eagles was accomplished in 1802, using leftover obverse dies from the previous year that have a 2 punched over the final digit in the date. Eight die varieties are known for the date. This coin represents the BD-8 variety, with the 2 touching the bust, perfect T's in the reverse legend, and the final S in STATES over the far right of a cloud. The BD-8 is a relatively available variety, in the context of the series, with a surviving population of 150-200 examples in all grades. The BD-8 probably accounted for 10,000-15,000 examples of the reported mintage. The obverse die was used previously to strike the BD-6 and BD-7 varieties of this date, but this was the only use of the reverse die. It is possible that there was a remarriage of these dies, with some late die state examples of BD-7 struck between the two pairings.
Heritage’s description of the coin: This Plus-graded Choice specimen exhibits sharply detailed design elements and dramatic clash marks in the fields on both sides. The well-preserved antique-gold surfaces radiate vibrant mint luster, with outstanding eye appeal. This coin represents an exceptional balance of quality and value, as MS65 examples have sold for as much as $138,000 in recent Heritage auctions.
In comparison, The Eliasberg registry set describes his specimen as estimated grade MS62. Hansen has two better!
@tradedollarnut said:
Richmond made quite a run at it, albeit at a lower grade level
I do remember the Richmond sale very fondly. The sale was in three parts. I remember reading the hardcover auction books cover to cover. I will never forget the first one. The US Gold Sale. … It was summer of 2004. I remember my early summer vacation in a little cabin in Blue Ridge Mountains of NC, setting on the porch viewing gold coins. I remember playing the lottery intensively leading up to that sale. It didn’t work, never does. I know this really don't pertain to this thread, but I wonder if I am the only one that has hit the lottery hard before a big sale. Back to the collection....
Question Bruce, after 70 years, is the Hansen Collection, the only second time someone made a run at it? Or were the others that have been lost in the history books?
Being Bruce made the comment that prompts the question; I did address it to him. Anyone with knowledge may chime in.
@jonathanb said:
Out of idle curiosity... if Hansen completes his collection, and every coin is slabbed by PCGS, and he stacks all of the slabs next to / on top of each other as tightly as possible, how much space would all of those slabs take up?
I can tell you from personal experience that it's not a good idea...I can get 20 to 30 high, but they start tilting then...
John Brush President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com email: John@davidlawrence.com 2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
@Gazes said:
am I missing something?---hansen has both the 1861 in pcgs 65 cac and pcgs 66 so one can use either one when looking at his seated dollar set depending on your preference.
Ding, ding, ding!
John Brush President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com email: John@davidlawrence.com 2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
What is the sense and purpose of having excellent representation? To listen to them. Not sure what is going on in this case - one way or the other. Maybe he got a screaming deal on the MS66? Who knows.
Fair point... maybe Legend sets are still intact (as they deserve to be) and these are just add on coins for fun and/or registry point purposes only?
Wondercoin.
To comment here...There's nothing wrong about adding coins to a collection for whatever reason. Collectors collect and they can come in all flavors.
As for the 1861, Mr. Hansen prefers the stronger strike and luster of the MS66 more than the attractively toned piece. Does this mean he's wrong? No. It's his preference. And he can display whichever one he prefers...or both!
John Brush President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com email: John@davidlawrence.com 2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
@jonathanb said:
Out of idle curiosity... if Hansen completes his collection, and every coin is slabbed by PCGS, and he stacks all of the slabs next to / on top of each other as tightly as possible, how much space would all of those slabs take up?
I can tell you from personal experience that it's not a good idea...I can get 20 to 30 high, but they start tilting then...
What if the slabs were made compatible with Legos?
@WAYNEAS said:
would love to read some of his articles especially what motivates his desire to have the best.
As he puts it..."I'm mildly competitive..." that's putting it lightly. He's incredibly passionate when he finds something that's of interest and his love of collecting and competitiveness are part of his drives that I can pinpoint.
John Brush President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com email: John@davidlawrence.com 2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
@specialist said:
If he bought that 1830-dilly dilly! Great coin. So UNDERvalued
Thank you. Indeed it is. It took quite a long time to put that one together, but we were all chasing it for a year or so until it got reasonable...eventually most people find that they need the money
John Brush President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com email: John@davidlawrence.com 2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
@jonathanb said:
Out of idle curiosity... if Hansen completes his collection, and every coin is slabbed by PCGS, and he stacks all of the slabs next to / on top of each other as tightly as possible, how much space would all of those slabs take up?
I can tell you from personal experience that it's not a good idea...I can get 20 to 30 high, but they start tilting then...
What if the slabs were made compatible with Legos?
PCGS has some work to do with their corners or "stackers"...a slightly better plastic quality there would be nice!
John Brush President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com email: John@davidlawrence.com 2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
This is an interesting little obsolete denomination. We may not have discussed the three cent business strikes, I don’t remember for sure. I know we have discussed Hansen’s Legend HOF Proof Set that he purchased last year. He has a condition census business strike set that when joined with this #1 Proof set; he is the King of Three Cents Silvers with the number #1 – 46 piece combo set. The Hansen Set is almost a full GPA Weighted better the #2 All-Time Finest Set. At the time that I wrote this update, Hansen has not updated his Three Cent Sets with the new coin.
As stated, he does not own the #1 Three Cent Mint State Set. The top set, assembled by Legends, has the #1 ranking locked up making it an impossible task to overcome. As we have been told in this thread, Hansen has no chance in the future of obtaining the coins from sets as this one. As a famous actor once said, “a man needs to know his limitation”. The Number #1 Top Set has the 1860 POP 1/0 specimen. So, the next coin available would be the POP 1/1, which is the one that Hansen added to his collection. It appears to me that Hansen knows what needs to be done. Hansen’s set is a distant third on the All-Time Finest list. He can over a little time catch the #2 set, but not the top set.
1860 3CS MS66+ “Finest PCGS Specimen that is available for purchase”
This is an amazing specimen that is the best and finest specimen available. Again with this upgrade, the coin replacing a very good coin that Hansen already had. The coin being replaced is a PCGS MS66 POP 15/2 specimen with a CAC sticker. The coin does not have a picture and I cannot determine any history on the coin.
Expert Comments by Ron Guth: The 1860 Three-Cent Silver has a lower mintage than the 1859, but is very similar in terms of the number of survivors and the grade distribution. Unfortunately, this date is tough in Superb condition, and it is one of the few "common" dates that has not been graded above MS66 by PCGS. This may be because of weak strikes or clashmarks, which are frequent occurrences on this date, because there is nothing else that makes this different than other dates. However, the Condition Census is filled with MS66 examples, plus a single PCGS MS66+ at the top end.
The new 1860 Three Cent Silver MS66+ coin was purchased in legend Rare Coin’s Regency Auction 31 on 3/21/2019. The coin realized $7,637.50, which brought slightly more than Legend’s estimate $7K to $7.5K. Legend describes their knowledge in the series, One series that we know and understand better than pretty much everyone is the three cent silver series. Having built the top three Mint State sets and top two all time Proof collections, we know how each and every date comes. We know how challenging this date can be in top grades, and this is the ONLY MS66+ graded by PCGS and there is just a single MS67 graded higher.
The coin has amazing toning. If you are a toner guy, you should love this coin. As you know, I am not a toner guy, but it is pretty. Hansen new coin does not have the CAC sticker and legend describes the reason they think why. Offering a dazzling array of blue, aqua, and rose patina on both sides, this lovely GEM is as high end as it is colorful. The luster is frosty under the wonderful toning. A robust strike shows full definition on both sides, we note only a single shallow line on the reverse which is probably what keeps it from attaining a CAC sticker. Regardless, the quality is high-end and very pleasing.
In comparison with Eliasberg, we know that he only obtain one specimen of the Philadelphia coins. He would have either a proof or business strike, but rarely both. The Eliasberg registry set describes his specimen as assumed grade MS64. Hansen has two MS coins better. Plus, the finest proof PR67+ CAC. Eliasberg coin was sold by Bowers & Merena May '96 price realized $1,980. Lot #869.
Hansen’s New 1860 Three Cent Silver, MS66+ Certification #36849782, PCGS #3678 Ex: Larry Shapiro Collection (PCGS Set Registry) - Legend Rare Coin Auctions 3/2019, realized: $7,637.50 – D.L. Hansen Collection
.
. Hansen’s 1860 Three Cent Silver, PR67+ CAC Certification #25254316, PCGS #3709, POP 1/0 Ex: Legend HOF Specimen (Set created by Laura Spierber)
Today marks the one year anniversary of the “Hansen Watch” thread. The original posting was April 14, 2018. Sometimes, I am asked questions similar to Zions. I am not sure even I know all of the multifaceted answers yet, but let’s give it a go.
Certainly the thread helps but I'm guessing there's some underlying reason why a thread was created for Hansen but not others. Perhaps @Currin could chime in on why he did one for Hansen?
One year ago, I started this thread by posting a new addition. I did not know how to attach a picture at the time. I was quickly reminded by a community member, if I am going to post, I need to have a picture. So, I learned. Also, around this same time, two other things were happening. One was the “The next Eliasberg?” thread originated by Gazes was starting to conclude. The thread basically ended 3/31/2018. This was two weeks before the start of the “Hansen Watch”. You could say that Gazes thread was the inspiration for this one. The other thing that I had been tinkering with for a few weeks, was trying to get an understanding of how many coins were remaining to complete a Eliasberg comparable collection. A “so call” complete collection did not exist anywhere. Bruce posted this on a related thread a few days ago.
@tradedollarnut said:
Pcgs is really missing the publicity boat by not having an Eliasberg Registry set.. I just looked at the Complete Sets Registry and there is no way to compare apples to apples...it’s apples to oranges.
Eliasberg’s accomplishment was not a complete circulation strike set so if that’s where you are coming up with ‘less than half a dozen’ then it’s irrelevant. Nor was his accomplishment a complete circulation and proof set - I agree that if Hanson does this then he exceeds Eliasberg. His accomplishment was a complete set regardless of method of manufacture of the coin.
Come on, pcgs - give us that set so we can truly compare Hanson’s quest.
So, my thought would be this community would create a list. That is where the “Count Down” list came into play. Thanks everyone that helped developed the list. Also, I can say, we have not change the original yet. At the moment, Hansen is 21 coins short of completing an comparable set in content to Eliasberg.
I could stop here, but if you have time, let me add…
For an anniversary posting, I thought of several things to share. Maybe a recap of a few big purchases. Maybe the big misses. Maybe a status or some predictions. I landed on just making some personal comments. Also, I would hope everyone at this anniversary time to make your personal comments. They can be good or bad. That’s’ OK. I will end this posting (see below) by sharing a most recent thought from @Justacommeman.
My thoughts
In pertaining to this collection, recently some of the conclusions that I have made from observations have been challenge. That’s OK. I am glad to live in a world that can happen. I make these conclusions based on available data, and knowing all the data cannot be obtained. I don’t have a direct line to Mr. Hansen. I must use his postings, articles, interviews, and comments from people that have meet and know him, i. e. John Brush.
In this thread (I hope a fun thread), we have not been working on solving problems like global warming, poverty, sustainability, and other really important issues. Numismatics to me is a hobby. I know to some of you, it’s your livelihood. That places us on a different plane. For many of you, you are in the hobbyist realm as I am. I think of Hansen as a hobbyist too. I don’t enjoy grading coins. I am not a coin expert, but I do enjoy reading and trying to get an in-depth understanding of the hobby. As a pastime, I find that not only watching “The Collection” grow, but have a deeper understanding is fascinating.
Most of my postings and updates, I just present you the facts, data, and pictures and allow you to draw conclusions. On occasions in responding to my fellow community members, I will step over that line and share my thoughts. You have witness, the concept that I use is that I observed facts and data, and then try to draw a conclusion for the observations. It is up to you if you accept them or not.
I admit, this is not really a scientific approach because I typically do not use a couple steps needed claim the process to be scientific. To be scientific, from the data, I would need to make a hypothesis, then a prediction, and then develop a test to prove the hypothesis, Naturally, I am not doing all those steps, but I have been trying to study available data and draw conclusions. On a couple auctions, you may have seen that I have made a couple predictions for purchases in upcoming auctions, and we have seen the results.
I hope you have seen that my conclusions are not based with emotion. Many you to have a lot of passion that results in very emotional conclusions and viewpoints. You should keep the passion. It is important for the hobby. My passion is usually trumped by my overpowering level of reasoning. We are all built a little differently. That’s OK. Now, let’s see what happens the rest of 2019. Can the 1885 $4,000,000 Trade Dollar purchased be topped before the year end?
Invitation for everyone to share thoughts, GOOD or NOT SO GOOD
@Justacommeman said:
This has to be one of the most entertaining threads of all time. It has great intrigue, suspense, education and debate. ( but I’m here basically for the haymakers) I look forward to coming back to this thread on a daily basis. It’s way better then any weekly or monthly coin publication I’ve ever read.
Love when I see there are 15 new posts. You never know what you’re gonna get.
@Currin
I have been following this thread with intent interest. I, for one, have enjoyed the information, updates and have been educated. Thank you for your efforts.
@Currin I have been reading your thread for awhile and always find it interesting. Your posts lead me to start investigating certain coins that I may want to add to my collection. Thanks for all the hard work you put into this!
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@MANOFCOINS said:
Does this collection really DESERVE to be considered amongst the best? Up to this point in 2 years or so plus being a billionaire and having everyone and their dogs sell their full sets to him kind of makes it anticlimactic. When any coin in the universe is less than 0.1% of your wealth makes collecting pretty easy. In about 2 years with extreme wealth he has done what most of the great collectors took 30-40 years. I enjoy this thread don't get me wrong I will always find it difficult to place this collection amongst the best when actually he has done very little other than being ultra wealthy. Buying numerous whole sets to me is not something that I find very attractive when comparing to the prior greatest collections. The fact ANY BILLIONAIRE COULD MAKE THE TOP 10 IN 2 YEARS is a joke. If he is still collecting in 15 years then great if not just another flash in pan.
So if someone wrote a check to Eliasberg for his entire collection back in the day would that individual's collection deserve to be the best, or is it looked down upon due to the method of acquisition.
The reality is that it takes deep pockets to put together a classic set. I > @specialist said:
Currin, Please your comments are off base period.
Bruce was being polite. I am not because I AM the one who mostly built the sets. I am protecting MY legacy too. I had a verbal promise that 70CC would never be be added. Bruce I and I KNEW there was no better 1861. if you really believe this 1861 is better because of the plastic, you should not comment as you have seen neither in hand. This 1861 flunked CAC. The reverse kills it badly. How nieve for people to not think between Bruce and I-not matter what it takes or costs, we weren't going to put the FINEST-the absolute FINEST coins in his sets. Even today when a coin or two pops up, Bruce will buy it if it was better then what he has. So, yeah, you bet I am pissed. Its like taking a work of art and destroying it. That is the new type of hero? Really? In that case no.
No more observations that are just plain WRONG please...
Yes, what Delloy is doing is difficult. I do have some respect for him. But I wish he would not destroy these once in a life time sets. I sure won't offer him any more-I can't even look at what he did to my beloved 3CS set.
How has what he has "done" changed your sets? I thought it was not at all about an award or ranking, but about building a set.
Currin--first, thank you for your comments about my very small role in this thread. Much appreciated. For whatever reason, this thread works. I see so many people say this is their favorite thread or get excited when there are new posts. My guess is that it is a favorite for different reasons for different people. For some it may be the thrill of being part of Mr Hansen's quest, others it may be for the back and forth of different viewpoints, others may love learning about the coins, etc. Much thanks to you because you have put in the hard work to keep it going. Thank you!
I'm sure this has been discussed somewhere, but what exactly defines a "complete collection of United States coins"? What "master list" is he working from? Where is the line drawn as far as all the oddball stuff the various mints produced? Just a random example from my current area of interest - San Francisco minted a mix of two Barber dime reverse types from 1902-1905. Does he have to include all 8 of them? Similarly, the proof dimes of 1901 include both "thick" and "thin" ribbon reverse designs - does this "complete collection" require both? Just examples, there are many more. I'm curious who or what decides the definition of "complete" with something like this.
Exactly why PCGS should step up and create the set. And then promote the quest to the community and the general public. A chance to capture a future generation’s interest in the hobby
Very informative thread and I've enjoyed reading it. Sniping, disrespectful comments from a certain dealer tainted the perspective shared by that person and detracted from the thread.
Thank you for all the time and effort you've invested by cataloguing this great quest!
@kbbpll said:
I'm sure this has been discussed somewhere, but what exactly defines a "complete collection of United States coins"? What >"master list" is he working from? Where is the line drawn....
Exactly...
For me a complete set, is a date set. (old school)
Now add branch mints (basic set) varieties, proofs, pattern's, errors, VAM? & now die pairs?
It's rather confusing and I wonder where Eliasberg was on this.
@jerseycat101 said:
I am confident that Dell Loy, if he wants to, will dominate the pattern market when he's done dominating the Eliasberg challenge. Money is the ultimate persuador.
From what I read above, two folks will need to die first.
@jerseycat101 said:
I am confident that Dell Loy, if he wants to, will dominate the pattern market when he's done dominating the Eliasberg challenge. Money is the ultimate persuador.
From what I read above, two folks will need to die first.
@jerseycat101 said:
I am confident that Dell Loy, if he wants to, will dominate the pattern market when he's done dominating the Eliasberg challenge. Money is the ultimate persuador.
From what I read above, two folks will need to die first.
Nah, they'll sell.
You know nothing. Simpson already met him and blew him off
@jerseycat101 said:
I am confident that Dell Loy, if he wants to, will dominate the pattern market when he's done dominating the Eliasberg challenge. Money is the ultimate persuador.
From what I read above, two folks will need to die first.
Nah, they'll sell.
+1 For the right price, everything is for sale. With that said, Hansen strikes me as the type that would refuse to pay burial money to buy a coin.
@jerseycat101 said:
I am confident that Dell Loy, if he wants to, will dominate the pattern market when he's done dominating the Eliasberg challenge. Money is the ultimate persuador.
From what I read above, two folks will need to die first.
Nah, they'll sell.
+1 For the right price, everything is for sale. With that said, Hansen strikes me as the type that would refuse to pay burial money to buy a coin.
@jerseycat101 said:
I am confident that Dell Loy, if he wants to, will dominate the pattern market when he's done dominating the Eliasberg challenge. Money is the ultimate persuador.
From what I read above, two folks will need to die first.
Nah, they'll sell.
+1 For the right price, everything is for sale. With that said, Hansen strikes me as the type that would refuse to pay burial money to buy a coin.
@jerseycat101 said:
I am confident that Dell Loy, if he wants to, will dominate the pattern market when he's done dominating the Eliasberg challenge. Money is the ultimate persuador.
From what I read above, two folks will need to die first.
Nah, they'll sell.
+1 For the right price, everything is for sale. With that said, Hansen strikes me as the type that would refuse to pay burial money to buy a coin.
What about the $129K Franklin then...
Isn't that owned by Linda Gail, and not Hansen?
Yes. The coin is in Linda Gail's registry set and not Hansen's.
@jonathanb said:
Out of idle curiosity... if Hansen completes his collection, and every coin is slabbed by PCGS, and he stacks all of the slabs next to / on top of each other as tightly as possible, how much space would all of those slabs take up?
I can tell you from personal experience that it's not a good idea...I can get 20 to 30 high, but they start tilting then...
Rather than stacking them as a large cube, do it as a pyramid. They won’t tilt that way. Looking forward to the pics!
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
@amwldcoin said:
I hope I'm not out of line. But parts of this thread seems to be turning into a Legend vrs. Hanson battle.
Ur about 12 pages too late with this comment. The jibber jabber has been going on too long. Maybe that's why DLH never comes back to post in his own thread.
I'm sure this has been discussed somewhere, but what exactly defines a "complete collection of United States coins"? What "master list" is he working from? Where is the line drawn as far as all the oddball stuff the various mints produced?
Very good questions. I highlighted a few points from Eliasberg's PCGS Bio below. As you can see, his goal was to assemble a complete set of regular issues. This would not include, Major Varieties, Patterns, colonials, etc. He did collect some specimens from about every category there is, but never was his goal to complete them. For example, he collected about 210 patterns. This is way short of the complete set known today of about 2000. He collected some on the Major Varieties, but was missing most (if not all) of the big boys.
There is folklore that he built his collection himself, hand picking one coin at a time. This is not true. He purchased the entire Clapp Collection which was said to be near completed. With the help of some great dealers of that era, he filled the remaining holes in his collection over time.
Basically, Hansen goal is similar, except I believe him to have a bigger vision. Eliasberg goal was to assemble a complete collection of United States regular issue coins, comprising all then-known dates and mint marks. I believe Hansen goal is to assemble a complete collection of United States regular issue coins, comprising all now-known available dates, mint marks, major varieties, including an addition of proof specimens for all available dates, mint marks, and major varieties.
There are two major facts that are hanging people up. One is some of the unique specimens may not be available, i.e. 1870-s Three Dollar Gold. There may be some others not available for various reasons. Second and this one hang folks up too. What Hansen considers a regular issue coin may not be same that Eliasberg considered, or what you or I consider? For example, his impression of the 1913 Liberty Nickel may be the coin is not a regular issue. It is very controversial. Some think it is and some don’t. John Brush recently stated: we weren't interested in pursuing the 1913 Nickel to that level. If it fell to us too cheaply, we'd have been ok with that, ...…. it was never a "must have" for the collection.
I think the bottom line is that Hansen will purchase available coins that he believes belong in his set. At the end of the day, he gets to choose. History will determine how great his collection becomes. There is no need to get bent out of shape over it at this time.
The Eliasberg Collection
Louis Eliasberg (1896-1976) was a Baltimore financier who avidly collected coins from 1925 until 1976. His goal was to assemble a complete collection of United States regular issue coins. He accomplished this monumental feat by 1950 by purchasing the last gold coin he needed (1841 $2 1/2) in 1949 and the last silver coin he needed (1873-CC no arrows dime) in 1950. From 1950 until his death in 1976, he concentrated on keeping his collection current, adding a few better condition pieces, and sharing his collection with the numismatic community through various exhibitions.
Louis Eliasberg accomplished what no one had accomplished before or since. He built a collection of regular issue United States coins comprising all then-known dates and mint marks. He is the only person to ever build a complete set of U.S. coins. He avidly sought every single coin he needed to accomplish his goal, in process purchasing coins from most of the major dealers of his day.
Eliasberg's largest and most important purchase occurred in 1942 when he purchased the Clapp Estate Collection through Stack's for $100,000. The Clapp Collection had been built first by J.M. Clapp from the 1880s through his death in 1906, and then his son John H. Clapp from 1906 on. The Clapp Collection was not only nearly complete, it contained coins of extraordinary quality, including spectacular quality coins that J.M. Clapp had acquired directly from each of the Mints in the year of issue from 1892 to 1906. Louis Eliasberg added the Clapp Collection to his, then expanded it and added the great ultra rarities.
The Eliasberg gold coins were auctioned by Bowers and Ruddy in 1982. The Eliasberg Copper, Nickel, and Silver coins were auctioned by Bowers and Merena in two sales in 1996 and 1997. The three Eliasberg sales are among the greatest in numismatic history.
Note that prior to the 1980s, most collectors mixed proofs and circulation strikes. So the Eliasberg collection features circulation strikes for the branch mints and proofs for most of the Philadelphia mint issues. This was how collectors built sets at the time and a collection was considered "complete" if it had one example from each date and mint, regardless of whether the examples were circulation strikes or proofs.
Actually I don't think I was. Of course the animosity was brewing...but seems to have become full fledged when I posted! I've been following this thread since day one and thoroughly enjoy it! No matter how Mr. Hanson goes about his quest...folks are going to be upset for any number of reasons! I'm a big fan of what he is trying to accomplish and I hope he is successful! Hip,Hip, Hurray!
PS, I, like many other collectors buy place holders until a better coin can be found! I don't understand the bashing some give when he buys a coin that isn't the best. He has replaced a few to say the least!
@amwldcoin said:
I hope I'm not out of line. But parts of this thread seems to be turning into a Legend vrs. Hanson battle.
Ur about 12 pages too late with this comment. The jibber jabber has been going on too long. Maybe that's why DLH never comes back to post in his own thread.
@amwldcoin said:
Actually I don't think I was. Of course the animosity was brewing...but seems to have become full fledged when I posted! I've been following this thread since day one and thoroughly enjoy it! No matter how Mr. Hanson goes about his quest...folks are going to be upset for any number of reasons! I'm a big fan of what he is trying to accomplish and I hope he is successful! Hip,Hip, Hurray!
PS, I, like many other collectors buy place holders until a better coin can be found! I don't understand the bashing some give when he buys a coin that isn't the best. He has replaced a few to say the least!
@amwldcoin said:
I hope I'm not out of line. But parts of this thread seems to be turning into a Legend vrs. Hanson battle.
Ur about 12 pages too late with this comment. The jibber jabber has been going on too long. Maybe that's why DLH never comes back to post in his own thread.
@Currin - thanks. I guess some of this will always be a bit nebulous, and up to the collector to decide. For example, is the 1894-S dime really a "regular issue"? Then the opposite - a famous coin like the 1922 "no D" - clearly not a "regular issue", yet I bet both Hansen and Eliasberg wouldn't consider it a "complete collection" without one.
We had some fun the last time I posted a little grouping of Jefferson Nickels. This grouping includes two specimens that are Major Varieties. All three of these coins were currently in the Hansen Collection, so these specimens are upgrades. They were purchased in the 3/21/2019, Legend Regency Auction 31. He paid a total of $27,850 for the three coins. I have provided details from Legend Auctions. I don’t know if their pedigree can be traced to another collection or registry set. Legend did not provide any of those details.
Two of the specimens are PCGS POP 1/0 graded coins. The other one is tied for finest with two other coins. I will not attempt to judge the strike. I will leave that to the experts. For the now duplicate coins, 1942-D/D “D/Horizontal D” Specimen was a MS65FS PCGS POP 7/6. Just a little outs side of being a condition census top 5. The original 1945-P “Double Die” was graded MS65FS by PCGS with POP 5/5. Again, just outside of being a condition census top 5. The 1947-D was graded MS67FS with POP 34/1. The coin was tied for second finest known. All the coins replaced were pretty good specimens. I am sure they will go into Hansen’s #2 set for now.
These upgrades improve the Jefferson Major Varieties Set in points, but not ranking. The Hansen Jefferson sets were previously All -Time Finest. This shows Hansen’s commitment to continue to upgrade if better specimens come available. He also leads with the non-FS sets too.
The PCGS FS 1938-1964 Set:It was the composition of the silver coins that changed in 1965, not the nickel, but this modern set follows the date guidelines of the silver issues by beginning in 1965. The dies have been remodeled numerous times since 1965, giving this series a slightly different look (over and over) as the years progress. This set also contains the first nickel with a mintmark on the obverse. Can you remember the year? This set requires the satin finish issues.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/nickels/jefferson-nickels-major-sets/jefferson-nickels-major-varieties-circulation-strikes-1938-1964/alltimeset/160522
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. The PCGS FS 1938-Present Set:In 1938, designer Felix Schlag immortalized Thomas Jefferson, America’s third President and the author of the Declaration of Independence, on a five cent piece that has been known ever since as the Jefferson Nickel. While the Basic sets contain no significant rarities, the Major Variety set includes a few pieces that will be challenging. Most of the toughest pieces will be the earlier issues from the first five years or so. These include the 1942-D over horizontal D, 1939 Doubled Monticello variety and the 1939 PDS issues with the Reverse of 1940-.
Legend Description: This is the FINEST certified example of this important repunched mintmark variety. Not only is it the highest graded, but its eye appeal is spectacular! Sharply struck devices show off full separation of the steps on Monticello and the D/D feature is crisp and bold, visible to the naked eye. A brilliant nickel-silver luster blooms with a stunning vibrance on both sides, accenting the amazing gold, blue, and apricot rose color. Even under the careful inspection with a strong glass, there are no singularly distracting ticks or marks. Needless to say, this is an impressive and important early date Jefferson nickel with a bold visual allure! There are NONE GRADED FINER at either service. Indeed, PCGS has only graded four in MS66 FS (no+). The most recent of those sold for $12,000 in November 2017, but there is a record of $17,050 in the 2017 FUN auction. In 66 FS, the current Collector's Universe value is listed at $15,000 and we believe this SUPERB coin will find itself at home in the highest ranked collection on the Set Registry. Anticipate very strong bidding here!
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. Tied for Finest PCGS Certified 1945-P 5C Doubled Die Reverse, FS MS66FS, Gold Shield, PCGS POP 3/0 Certification #36577029, PCGS #84173, PCGS Price $11,500
Legend Description: A superlative quality example that is tied for FINEST graded. A popular Doubled Die variety. Boldly lustrous on both sides, the definition is crisp and Monticello's steps are fully split and separated. A touch of the clearest of gold tone and some deeper amber at the reverse rim. SUPERB quality and wonderfully original. The current Collector's Universe value is listed at $11,500 and one sold for $14,100 in March 2014. With NONE finer, this is another important opportunity for the Registry Set collector looking for the FINEST examples.
Legend Description: LRCA is pleased to offer the sole FINEST graded 47-D nickel. What a great coin for the advanced specialist in the series, boasting a strong brilliant luster, sharply struck devices, and pleasing rosy-pink and powder-blue iridescent toning. Held back from an even loftier grade by a microscopic tick or two, none of which distract the eye. This coin has never sold in auction. This is a true prize for anyone building the #1 set on the PCGS Registry, and we anticipate strong bidding to say the least. We are not sure where the current Collector's Universe value came from but it is too low in our opinion.
here is what amazes me about the Hansen collection. I was looking at a coin in the upcoming Legend auction. It is an 1840-C $5 Liberty half eagle PCGS 64. This is a real rarity. So I check out the registry to see If this is a coin Hansen may want. Then I see he owns this date in 64+ CAC and it is a pop 1. Purchased recently for $120,000. The depth of his collection and so many "unsung" rarities like this one is truly inspiring.
Hey, maybe Delloy has my missing 1893CC BM PR65+ CAC???? Is he buying black market coins now????
I am ONLY kidding-but had to ask!
I still say Delloy needs to do Patterns. If no, can someone explain me why Eliasberg had so many? Trust me, Legend will never lose on Patterns we want or need.
@specialist said:
I still say Delloy needs to do Patterns.
I still don't think many people agree. Patterns are too esoteric and they are not what captures the imagination with the Eliasberg set. I think the 1913 Liberty nickel would be more important than patterns.
If no, can someone explain me why Eliasberg had so many?
It doesn't seem like Eliasberg had very many. @Currin indicates he had about 210 and compared to 1988 pieces for the PCGS complete registry set.
Trust me, Legend will never lose on Patterns we want or need.
I thought you said the Pan Pac slug hub trial was priced too high when you wrote "I can't get to his value for it." Perhaps it's not needed or wanted?
What captures the imagination with the Eliasberg set is a complete set of coins. 210 of 1988 patterns seems very incomplete. Is there a smaller "complete" set of patterns, and if so, how many pieces are in that set?
Of note, even Simpson is at only 56.74% completion with the next most complete set at 4.43%. So even Simpson seems to have a far way to completion.
But a smattering of the most important ones would suffice
I'm not convinced any are needed are needed yet.
But, what list of important ones would you consider enough?
The 42-D/D is a very pretty nickel! That said, I really wish there was a way to nail down the "FS" grading...but I don't think that's ever gonna happen.
Comments
Early Half Eagle Update
I have stated before, I am very fond of this series. The difficulty and expense of any coin in the series really places acquiring one out of my range. I will not deep dive into Hansen’s early coinage, but will save for another day. He is not known to have a “World-Class” set of early coins. Not yet anyway. But what is his goal? Is to better Eliasberg? Or better everyone? That’s a question that we will see answered not over the next few months, rather several years from now. So, where does he rank in the Early Half Eagle Gold Basic Set? He is about 5 grade points better than Eliasberg (61 vs 56). He is more than 6 grade points better than Garrett. Ten points better than Norweb. Here is a couple more; he is about 0.6 point better that Bass. Yes, that is correct, his grade for early half eagles is better than Bass. He is even a couple points better than Smithsonian National Numismatic Collection. Does this make him World Class? I don’t know how his collection would stack up to Lilly, and some of the other famous gold collections. Also, I don’t know how he would stack up to the underground sets that we hear rumors about. I do know he is almost two points below D. Brent Pogue. This is the only set in the registry with a better average grade point. I am interested to find out what it takes to be World-Class.
This upgrade is a nice one. I don’t see this being as controversial as some of his recent upgrades. I have found one other 1802/1 Half Eagle in Hansen’s collection. There may be more. The other specimen is a MS64 16/5. The MS64 was purchased at the Heritage 4/2017 CSNS Signature Auction in Chicago. The coin realized $39,950.
1802/1 $5 MS664+ CAC Cert 08015765 PCGS POP 4/2
This is an amazing specimen that is replacing an amazing specimen. This replacement speaks to the collection that Hansen is assembling. This coin was purchase at the Heritage 3/2019 Signature Auction. The coin realized $52,800. The coin appeared in a Great Collections Auction - April 08, 2018, where t realized $55,125. PCGS Coin Values place the coin at $60,000.
This is a Bass-Dannreuther Die State B-8. I am not sure if this is the first hint that Hansen may be taking aim at early gold die states. If so, it will be a big undertaking. Just for the 1802/1, there are eight distinguished die states. WOW! If that is what taking place. This is Heritage description of the die: 1802/1 $5 BD-8, R.4, MS64+ PCGS. CAC. Bass-Dannreuther Die State c/b, with the die crack through UNI in UNITED. A substantial mintage of 53,176 Capped Bust Right half eagles was accomplished in 1802, using leftover obverse dies from the previous year that have a 2 punched over the final digit in the date. Eight die varieties are known for the date. This coin represents the BD-8 variety, with the 2 touching the bust, perfect T's in the reverse legend, and the final S in STATES over the far right of a cloud. The BD-8 is a relatively available variety, in the context of the series, with a surviving population of 150-200 examples in all grades. The BD-8 probably accounted for 10,000-15,000 examples of the reported mintage. The obverse die was used previously to strike the BD-6 and BD-7 varieties of this date, but this was the only use of the reverse die. It is possible that there was a remarriage of these dies, with some late die state examples of BD-7 struck between the two pairings.
Heritage’s description of the coin: This Plus-graded Choice specimen exhibits sharply detailed design elements and dramatic clash marks in the fields on both sides. The well-preserved antique-gold surfaces radiate vibrant mint luster, with outstanding eye appeal. This coin represents an exceptional balance of quality and value, as MS65 examples have sold for as much as $138,000 in recent Heritage auctions.
In comparison, The Eliasberg registry set describes his specimen as estimated grade MS62. Hansen has two better!
Hansen’s New 1802/1 Capped Bust Right, Half Eagle, MS64+ CAC
BD-8 Variety1 $5 MS64+ Certification #08015765, PCGS #8083
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Hansen’s 1802/1 Capped Bust Right, Half Eagle MS64
1802/1 $5 BD-2, High R.4, MS64 PCGS Certification #60072510, PCGS #8083
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
I do remember the Richmond sale very fondly. The sale was in three parts. I remember reading the hardcover auction books cover to cover. I will never forget the first one. The US Gold Sale. … It was summer of 2004. I remember my early summer vacation in a little cabin in Blue Ridge Mountains of NC, setting on the porch viewing gold coins. I remember playing the lottery intensively leading up to that sale. It didn’t work, never does. I know this really don't pertain to this thread, but I wonder if I am the only one that has hit the lottery hard before a big sale. Back to the collection....
Question Bruce, after 70 years, is the Hansen Collection, the only second time someone made a run at it? Or were the others that have been lost in the history books?
Being Bruce made the comment that prompts the question; I did address it to him. Anyone with knowledge may chime in.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
I can tell you from personal experience that it's not a good idea...I can get 20 to 30 high, but they start tilting then...
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
Ding, ding, ding!
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
To comment here...There's nothing wrong about adding coins to a collection for whatever reason. Collectors collect and they can come in all flavors.
As for the 1861, Mr. Hansen prefers the stronger strike and luster of the MS66 more than the attractively toned piece. Does this mean he's wrong? No. It's his preference. And he can display whichever one he prefers...or both!
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
What if the slabs were made compatible with Legos?
As he puts it..."I'm mildly competitive..." that's putting it lightly. He's incredibly passionate when he finds something that's of interest and his love of collecting and competitiveness are part of his drives that I can pinpoint.
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
Thank you. Indeed it is. It took quite a long time to put that one together, but we were all chasing it for a year or so until it got reasonable...eventually most people find that they need the money
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
PCGS has some work to do with their corners or "stackers"...a slightly better plastic quality there would be nice!
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
Three Cent Silver Update
This is an interesting little obsolete denomination. We may not have discussed the three cent business strikes, I don’t remember for sure. I know we have discussed Hansen’s Legend HOF Proof Set that he purchased last year. He has a condition census business strike set that when joined with this #1 Proof set; he is the King of Three Cents Silvers with the number #1 – 46 piece combo set. The Hansen Set is almost a full GPA Weighted better the #2 All-Time Finest Set. At the time that I wrote this update, Hansen has not updated his Three Cent Sets with the new coin.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/two-three-cents/three-cent-silvers-major-sets/three-cent-silvers-major-varieties-circulation-strikes-proof-1851-1872/alltimeset/157273
As stated, he does not own the #1 Three Cent Mint State Set. The top set, assembled by Legends, has the #1 ranking locked up making it an impossible task to overcome. As we have been told in this thread, Hansen has no chance in the future of obtaining the coins from sets as this one. As a famous actor once said, “a man needs to know his limitation”. The Number #1 Top Set has the 1860 POP 1/0 specimen. So, the next coin available would be the POP 1/1, which is the one that Hansen added to his collection. It appears to me that Hansen knows what needs to be done. Hansen’s set is a distant third on the All-Time Finest list. He can over a little time catch the #2 set, but not the top set.
1860 3CS MS66+ “Finest PCGS Specimen that is available for purchase”
This is an amazing specimen that is the best and finest specimen available. Again with this upgrade, the coin replacing a very good coin that Hansen already had. The coin being replaced is a PCGS MS66 POP 15/2 specimen with a CAC sticker. The coin does not have a picture and I cannot determine any history on the coin.
Expert Comments by Ron Guth: The 1860 Three-Cent Silver has a lower mintage than the 1859, but is very similar in terms of the number of survivors and the grade distribution. Unfortunately, this date is tough in Superb condition, and it is one of the few "common" dates that has not been graded above MS66 by PCGS. This may be because of weak strikes or clashmarks, which are frequent occurrences on this date, because there is nothing else that makes this different than other dates. However, the Condition Census is filled with MS66 examples, plus a single PCGS MS66+ at the top end.
The new 1860 Three Cent Silver MS66+ coin was purchased in legend Rare Coin’s Regency Auction 31 on 3/21/2019. The coin realized $7,637.50, which brought slightly more than Legend’s estimate $7K to $7.5K. Legend describes their knowledge in the series, One series that we know and understand better than pretty much everyone is the three cent silver series. Having built the top three Mint State sets and top two all time Proof collections, we know how each and every date comes. We know how challenging this date can be in top grades, and this is the ONLY MS66+ graded by PCGS and there is just a single MS67 graded higher.
The coin has amazing toning. If you are a toner guy, you should love this coin. As you know, I am not a toner guy, but it is pretty. Hansen new coin does not have the CAC sticker and legend describes the reason they think why. Offering a dazzling array of blue, aqua, and rose patina on both sides, this lovely GEM is as high end as it is colorful. The luster is frosty under the wonderful toning. A robust strike shows full definition on both sides, we note only a single shallow line on the reverse which is probably what keeps it from attaining a CAC sticker. Regardless, the quality is high-end and very pleasing.
In comparison with Eliasberg, we know that he only obtain one specimen of the Philadelphia coins. He would have either a proof or business strike, but rarely both. The Eliasberg registry set describes his specimen as assumed grade MS64. Hansen has two MS coins better. Plus, the finest proof PR67+ CAC. Eliasberg coin was sold by Bowers & Merena May '96 price realized $1,980. Lot #869.
Hansen’s New 1860 Three Cent Silver, MS66+
Certification #36849782, PCGS #3678
Ex: Larry Shapiro Collection (PCGS Set Registry) - Legend Rare Coin Auctions 3/2019, realized: $7,637.50 – D.L. Hansen Collection
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Hansen’s 1860 Three Cent Silver, PR67+ CAC
Certification #25254316, PCGS #3709, POP 1/0
Ex: Legend HOF Specimen (Set created by Laura Spierber)
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
Hansen Watch Anniversary (4/14/2018-4/14/2019)
Today marks the one year anniversary of the “Hansen Watch” thread. The original posting was April 14, 2018. Sometimes, I am asked questions similar to Zions. I am not sure even I know all of the multifaceted answers yet, but let’s give it a go.
One year ago, I started this thread by posting a new addition. I did not know how to attach a picture at the time. I was quickly reminded by a community member, if I am going to post, I need to have a picture. So, I learned. Also, around this same time, two other things were happening. One was the “The next Eliasberg?” thread originated by Gazes was starting to conclude. The thread basically ended 3/31/2018. This was two weeks before the start of the “Hansen Watch”. You could say that Gazes thread was the inspiration for this one. The other thing that I had been tinkering with for a few weeks, was trying to get an understanding of how many coins were remaining to complete a Eliasberg comparable collection. A “so call” complete collection did not exist anywhere. Bruce posted this on a related thread a few days ago.
So, my thought would be this community would create a list. That is where the “Count Down” list came into play. Thanks everyone that helped developed the list. Also, I can say, we have not change the original yet. At the moment, Hansen is 21 coins short of completing an comparable set in content to Eliasberg.
I could stop here, but if you have time, let me add…
For an anniversary posting, I thought of several things to share. Maybe a recap of a few big purchases. Maybe the big misses. Maybe a status or some predictions. I landed on just making some personal comments. Also, I would hope everyone at this anniversary time to make your personal comments. They can be good or bad. That’s’ OK. I will end this posting (see below) by sharing a most recent thought from @Justacommeman.
My thoughts
In pertaining to this collection, recently some of the conclusions that I have made from observations have been challenge. That’s OK. I am glad to live in a world that can happen. I make these conclusions based on available data, and knowing all the data cannot be obtained. I don’t have a direct line to Mr. Hansen. I must use his postings, articles, interviews, and comments from people that have meet and know him, i. e. John Brush.
In this thread (I hope a fun thread), we have not been working on solving problems like global warming, poverty, sustainability, and other really important issues. Numismatics to me is a hobby. I know to some of you, it’s your livelihood. That places us on a different plane. For many of you, you are in the hobbyist realm as I am. I think of Hansen as a hobbyist too. I don’t enjoy grading coins. I am not a coin expert, but I do enjoy reading and trying to get an in-depth understanding of the hobby. As a pastime, I find that not only watching “The Collection” grow, but have a deeper understanding is fascinating.
Most of my postings and updates, I just present you the facts, data, and pictures and allow you to draw conclusions. On occasions in responding to my fellow community members, I will step over that line and share my thoughts. You have witness, the concept that I use is that I observed facts and data, and then try to draw a conclusion for the observations. It is up to you if you accept them or not.
I admit, this is not really a scientific approach because I typically do not use a couple steps needed claim the process to be scientific. To be scientific, from the data, I would need to make a hypothesis, then a prediction, and then develop a test to prove the hypothesis, Naturally, I am not doing all those steps, but I have been trying to study available data and draw conclusions. On a couple auctions, you may have seen that I have made a couple predictions for purchases in upcoming auctions, and we have seen the results.
I hope you have seen that my conclusions are not based with emotion. Many you to have a lot of passion that results in very emotional conclusions and viewpoints. You should keep the passion. It is important for the hobby. My passion is usually trumped by my overpowering level of reasoning. We are all built a little differently. That’s OK. Now, let’s see what happens the rest of 2019. Can the 1885 $4,000,000 Trade Dollar purchased be topped before the year end?
Invitation for everyone to share thoughts, GOOD or NOT SO GOOD
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
Currin - thank you for putting all this data together. It is a pleasure to read.
It will be interesting to see how many of the 21 remaining are knocked down by this time next year.
Bravo @Currin
Latin American Collection
@Currin
I have been following this thread with intent interest. I, for one, have enjoyed the information, updates and have been educated. Thank you for your efforts.
End Systemic Elitism - It Takes All Of Us
@Currin I have been reading your thread for awhile and always find it interesting. Your posts lead me to start investigating certain coins that I may want to add to my collection. Thanks for all the hard work you put into this!
Hands down one of the best and most rewarding threads I've read in the 16+ yrs I've been here.
Thanks @Currin for doing what you do best!
Later, Paul.
Dilly Dilly Currin
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
So if someone wrote a check to Eliasberg for his entire collection back in the day would that individual's collection deserve to be the best, or is it looked down upon due to the method of acquisition.
The reality is that it takes deep pockets to put together a classic set. I > @specialist said:
How has what he has "done" changed your sets? I thought it was not at all about an award or ranking, but about building a set.
Currin--first, thank you for your comments about my very small role in this thread. Much appreciated. For whatever reason, this thread works. I see so many people say this is their favorite thread or get excited when there are new posts. My guess is that it is a favorite for different reasons for different people. For some it may be the thrill of being part of Mr Hansen's quest, others it may be for the back and forth of different viewpoints, others may love learning about the coins, etc. Much thanks to you because you have put in the hard work to keep it going. Thank you!
I'm sure this has been discussed somewhere, but what exactly defines a "complete collection of United States coins"? What "master list" is he working from? Where is the line drawn as far as all the oddball stuff the various mints produced? Just a random example from my current area of interest - San Francisco minted a mix of two Barber dime reverse types from 1902-1905. Does he have to include all 8 of them? Similarly, the proof dimes of 1901 include both "thick" and "thin" ribbon reverse designs - does this "complete collection" require both? Just examples, there are many more. I'm curious who or what decides the definition of "complete" with something like this.
Exactly why PCGS should step up and create the set. And then promote the quest to the community and the general public. A chance to capture a future generation’s interest in the hobby
Email sent to the powers that be
Very informative thread and I've enjoyed reading it. Sniping, disrespectful comments from a certain dealer tainted the perspective shared by that person and detracted from the thread.
Thank you for all the time and effort you've invested by cataloguing this great quest!
Exactly...
For me a complete set, is a date set. (old school)
Now add branch mints (basic set) varieties, proofs, pattern's, errors, VAM? & now die pairs?
It's rather confusing and I wonder where Eliasberg was on this.
This set isn't all that Eliasberg had but Hansen has clearly already won if we are talking basic set.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/complete-sets/master-sets/u-s-coins-complete-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1792-1964/3406
My Saint Set
Date set? Pffft
Let’s just give out participation medals...
From what I read above, two folks will need to die first.
Nah, they'll sell.
You know nothing. Simpson already met him and blew him off
I hope I'm not out of line. But parts of this thread seems to be turning into a Legend vrs. Hanson battle.
+1 For the right price, everything is for sale. With that said, Hansen strikes me as the type that would refuse to pay burial money to buy a coin.
Thanks for your comments and efforts on this thread @Currin!
I think some of the nitpicking is missing the forest for the trees.
I'm here to enjoy the coins... and the countdown
What about the $129K Franklin then...
Isn't that owned by Linda Gail, and not Hansen?
Yes. The coin is in Linda Gail's registry set and not Hansen's.
Rather than stacking them as a large cube, do it as a pyramid. They won’t tilt that way. Looking forward to the pics!
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Ur about 12 pages too late with this comment. The jibber jabber has been going on too long. Maybe that's why DLH never comes back to post in his own thread.
Later, Paul.
Very good questions. I highlighted a few points from Eliasberg's PCGS Bio below. As you can see, his goal was to assemble a complete set of regular issues. This would not include, Major Varieties, Patterns, colonials, etc. He did collect some specimens from about every category there is, but never was his goal to complete them. For example, he collected about 210 patterns. This is way short of the complete set known today of about 2000. He collected some on the Major Varieties, but was missing most (if not all) of the big boys.
There is folklore that he built his collection himself, hand picking one coin at a time. This is not true. He purchased the entire Clapp Collection which was said to be near completed. With the help of some great dealers of that era, he filled the remaining holes in his collection over time.
Basically, Hansen goal is similar, except I believe him to have a bigger vision. Eliasberg goal was to assemble a complete collection of United States regular issue coins, comprising all then-known dates and mint marks. I believe Hansen goal is to assemble a complete collection of United States regular issue coins, comprising all now-known available dates, mint marks, major varieties, including an addition of proof specimens for all available dates, mint marks, and major varieties.
There are two major facts that are hanging people up. One is some of the unique specimens may not be available, i.e. 1870-s Three Dollar Gold. There may be some others not available for various reasons. Second and this one hang folks up too. What Hansen considers a regular issue coin may not be same that Eliasberg considered, or what you or I consider? For example, his impression of the 1913 Liberty Nickel may be the coin is not a regular issue. It is very controversial. Some think it is and some don’t. John Brush recently stated: we weren't interested in pursuing the 1913 Nickel to that level. If it fell to us too cheaply, we'd have been ok with that, ...…. it was never a "must have" for the collection.
I think the bottom line is that Hansen will purchase available coins that he believes belong in his set. At the end of the day, he gets to choose. History will determine how great his collection becomes. There is no need to get bent out of shape over it at this time.
The Eliasberg Collection
Louis Eliasberg (1896-1976) was a Baltimore financier who avidly collected coins from 1925 until 1976. His goal was to assemble a complete collection of United States regular issue coins. He accomplished this monumental feat by 1950 by purchasing the last gold coin he needed (1841 $2 1/2) in 1949 and the last silver coin he needed (1873-CC no arrows dime) in 1950. From 1950 until his death in 1976, he concentrated on keeping his collection current, adding a few better condition pieces, and sharing his collection with the numismatic community through various exhibitions.
Louis Eliasberg accomplished what no one had accomplished before or since. He built a collection of regular issue United States coins comprising all then-known dates and mint marks. He is the only person to ever build a complete set of U.S. coins. He avidly sought every single coin he needed to accomplish his goal, in process purchasing coins from most of the major dealers of his day.
Eliasberg's largest and most important purchase occurred in 1942 when he purchased the Clapp Estate Collection through Stack's for $100,000. The Clapp Collection had been built first by J.M. Clapp from the 1880s through his death in 1906, and then his son John H. Clapp from 1906 on. The Clapp Collection was not only nearly complete, it contained coins of extraordinary quality, including spectacular quality coins that J.M. Clapp had acquired directly from each of the Mints in the year of issue from 1892 to 1906. Louis Eliasberg added the Clapp Collection to his, then expanded it and added the great ultra rarities.
The Eliasberg gold coins were auctioned by Bowers and Ruddy in 1982. The Eliasberg Copper, Nickel, and Silver coins were auctioned by Bowers and Merena in two sales in 1996 and 1997. The three Eliasberg sales are among the greatest in numismatic history.
Note that prior to the 1980s, most collectors mixed proofs and circulation strikes. So the Eliasberg collection features circulation strikes for the branch mints and proofs for most of the Philadelphia mint issues. This was how collectors built sets at the time and a collection was considered "complete" if it had one example from each date and mint, regardless of whether the examples were circulation strikes or proofs.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
Actually I don't think I was. Of course the animosity was brewing...but seems to have become full fledged when I posted! I've been following this thread since day one and thoroughly enjoy it! No matter how Mr. Hanson goes about his quest...folks are going to be upset for any number of reasons! I'm a big fan of what he is trying to accomplish and I hope he is successful! Hip,Hip, Hurray!
PS, I, like many other collectors buy place holders until a better coin can be found! I don't understand the bashing some give when he buys a coin that isn't the best. He has replaced a few to say the least!
Well said and I agree 100%.
Later, Paul.
Eh. It’s not Legend against Hansen. It’s Legend against those prematurely proclaiming him as the numismatic messiah.
@Currin - thanks. I guess some of this will always be a bit nebulous, and up to the collector to decide. For example, is the 1894-S dime really a "regular issue"? Then the opposite - a famous coin like the 1922 "no D" - clearly not a "regular issue", yet I bet both Hansen and Eliasberg wouldn't consider it a "complete collection" without one.
Jefferson Nickel Trio
We had some fun the last time I posted a little grouping of Jefferson Nickels. This grouping includes two specimens that are Major Varieties. All three of these coins were currently in the Hansen Collection, so these specimens are upgrades. They were purchased in the 3/21/2019, Legend Regency Auction 31. He paid a total of $27,850 for the three coins. I have provided details from Legend Auctions. I don’t know if their pedigree can be traced to another collection or registry set. Legend did not provide any of those details.
Two of the specimens are PCGS POP 1/0 graded coins. The other one is tied for finest with two other coins. I will not attempt to judge the strike. I will leave that to the experts. For the now duplicate coins, 1942-D/D “D/Horizontal D” Specimen was a MS65FS PCGS POP 7/6. Just a little outs side of being a condition census top 5. The original 1945-P “Double Die” was graded MS65FS by PCGS with POP 5/5. Again, just outside of being a condition census top 5. The 1947-D was graded MS67FS with POP 34/1. The coin was tied for second finest known. All the coins replaced were pretty good specimens. I am sure they will go into Hansen’s #2 set for now.
These upgrades improve the Jefferson Major Varieties Set in points, but not ranking. The Hansen Jefferson sets were previously All -Time Finest. This shows Hansen’s commitment to continue to upgrade if better specimens come available. He also leads with the non-FS sets too.
The PCGS FS 1938-1964 Set: It was the composition of the silver coins that changed in 1965, not the nickel, but this modern set follows the date guidelines of the silver issues by beginning in 1965. The dies have been remodeled numerous times since 1965, giving this series a slightly different look (over and over) as the years progress. This set also contains the first nickel with a mintmark on the obverse. Can you remember the year? This set requires the satin finish issues.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/nickels/jefferson-nickels-major-sets/jefferson-nickels-major-varieties-circulation-strikes-1938-1964/alltimeset/160522
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The PCGS FS 1938-Present Set: In 1938, designer Felix Schlag immortalized Thomas Jefferson, America’s third President and the author of the Declaration of Independence, on a five cent piece that has been known ever since as the Jefferson Nickel. While the Basic sets contain no significant rarities, the Major Variety set includes a few pieces that will be challenging. Most of the toughest pieces will be the earlier issues from the first five years or so. These include the 1942-D over horizontal D, 1939 Doubled Monticello variety and the 1939 PDS issues with the Reverse of 1940-.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/nickels/jefferson-nickels-major-sets/jefferson-nickels-fs-major-varieties-circulation-strikes-1938-present/alltimeset/159723
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Finest PCGS Certified
1942-D/D 5C D/Horizontal D, FS MS66+ FS, Gold Shield, PCGS POP/10
Certification #36613239, PCGS #84015, PCGS Price Unknown for MS66+
Legend Regency Auction 31, 3/21/2019, Price Realized $14,100
Legend Description: This is the FINEST certified example of this important repunched mintmark variety. Not only is it the highest graded, but its eye appeal is spectacular! Sharply struck devices show off full separation of the steps on Monticello and the D/D feature is crisp and bold, visible to the naked eye. A brilliant nickel-silver luster blooms with a stunning vibrance on both sides, accenting the amazing gold, blue, and apricot rose color. Even under the careful inspection with a strong glass, there are no singularly distracting ticks or marks. Needless to say, this is an impressive and important early date Jefferson nickel with a bold visual allure! There are NONE GRADED FINER at either service. Indeed, PCGS has only graded four in MS66 FS (no+). The most recent of those sold for $12,000 in November 2017, but there is a record of $17,050 in the 2017 FUN auction. In 66 FS, the current Collector's Universe value is listed at $15,000 and we believe this SUPERB coin will find itself at home in the highest ranked collection on the Set Registry. Anticipate very strong bidding here!
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Tied for Finest PCGS Certified
1945-P 5C Doubled Die Reverse, FS MS66FS, Gold Shield, PCGS POP 3/0
Certification #36577029, PCGS #84173, PCGS Price $11,500
Legend Regency Auction 31, 3/21/2019, Price Realized $11,750
Legend Description: A superlative quality example that is tied for FINEST graded. A popular Doubled Die variety. Boldly lustrous on both sides, the definition is crisp and Monticello's steps are fully split and separated. A touch of the clearest of gold tone and some deeper amber at the reverse rim. SUPERB quality and wonderfully original. The current Collector's Universe value is listed at $11,500 and one sold for $14,100 in March 2014. With NONE finer, this is another important opportunity for the Registry Set collector looking for the FINEST examples.
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Finest PCGS Certified
1947-D 5C, FS MS67+ FS, PCGS POP 1/0
Certification #84701877, PCGS #84032, PCGS Price $2,250
Legend Regency Auction 31, 3/21/2019, Price Realized $4,700
Legend Description: LRCA is pleased to offer the sole FINEST graded 47-D nickel. What a great coin for the advanced specialist in the series, boasting a strong brilliant luster, sharply struck devices, and pleasing rosy-pink and powder-blue iridescent toning. Held back from an even loftier grade by a microscopic tick or two, none of which distract the eye. This coin has never sold in auction. This is a true prize for anyone building the #1 set on the PCGS Registry, and we anticipate strong bidding to say the least. We are not sure where the current Collector's Universe value came from but it is too low in our opinion.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
here is what amazes me about the Hansen collection. I was looking at a coin in the upcoming Legend auction. It is an 1840-C $5 Liberty half eagle PCGS 64. This is a real rarity. So I check out the registry to see If this is a coin Hansen may want. Then I see he owns this date in 64+ CAC and it is a pop 1. Purchased recently for $120,000. The depth of his collection and so many "unsung" rarities like this one is truly inspiring.
Hey, maybe Delloy has my missing 1893CC BM PR65+ CAC???? Is he buying black market coins now????
I am ONLY kidding-but had to ask!
I still say Delloy needs to do Patterns. If no, can someone explain me why Eliasberg had so many? Trust me, Legend will never lose on Patterns we want or need.
I still don't think many people agree. Patterns are too esoteric and they are not what captures the imagination with the Eliasberg set. I think the 1913 Liberty nickel would be more important than patterns.
It doesn't seem like Eliasberg had very many. @Currin indicates he had about 210 and compared to 1988 pieces for the PCGS complete registry set.
I thought you said the Pan Pac slug hub trial was priced too high when you wrote "I can't get to his value for it." Perhaps it's not needed or wanted?
210 seems like a lot. But a smattering of the most important ones would suffice
What captures the imagination with the Eliasberg set is a complete set of coins. 210 of 1988 patterns seems very incomplete. Is there a smaller "complete" set of patterns, and if so, how many pieces are in that set?
Of note, even Simpson is at only 56.74% completion with the next most complete set at 4.43%. So even Simpson seems to have a far way to completion.
I'm not convinced any are needed are needed yet.
But, what list of important ones would you consider enough?
The 42-D/D is a very pretty nickel! That said, I really wish there was a way to nail down the "FS" grading...but I don't think that's ever gonna happen.