I may have shown a Franklin piece before, but don’t remember a full discussion on the Franklin series. A predominant poster on this forum recently called registry sets as time-wasting and other silliness. There must be a lot of half dollar collectors of Franklin Half Dollars FBL Basic Set, Circulation Strikes (1948-1963) that fall into this craze. The Franklin Half Dollar set that I like to reference the most frequently is the FBL Basic Circulation Strikes Set. This 35 piece set has almost 500 listed registry sets. That’s correct, 478 as of today. This is the most popular mint strike half dollar set. The Kennedy Proof has most registry sets. I am not sure if I know what make the Franklin series so popular. It is hard for me to see the beauty in the coin compared to the other half dollar designs. Maybe it is the fact the series lasted only 15 years. I believe the series was cut short by the assassination of our 35th president. Or, maybe the fact that a very low pop, high grade coin can be found at a reasonable price. PCGS describes the set as: Mintages are irrelevant when gauging the rarity of a Franklin issue in MS 65 or MS 65 FBL (or higher grade). Original BU rolls of Franklin half dollars rarely contain even a single MS 65 coin. Because this series is both challenging and affordable, it has become one of the most popular of all U. S. coins sets to assemble. As this is being written only twenty sets can be put together in MS65FBL, and one set is possible in MS66FBL! Most collectors assemble this set with as many FBL pieces as possible, then fill in the holes with non-FBL specimens until the right coins come along.
Presently, Hansen’s Franklin Half Dollars FBL Basic Set is 5th in the All-Time Finest (All Eras) ranking. To be in the top 1% is a nice accomplishment for most of us. I don’t want to go as far as to say that Hansen is silly, or wasting his time, but he does play hard ball as far as the registry completion is concerned. I believe this to be one of his sets that he would like to build to the top, even though the #1 set will be a big challenge to overcome. Hansen’s presently has 10 of his specimens out of the 31 that is tied for the finest graded by PCGS. In comparison, the All-Time #1 set has four PCGS POP 1/0 out of possible seven. Also, 26 of the 31 required coins are either finest or tied for finest. As you can see, Hansen has a lot of work to do.
1952 Half Dollar MS67+ FL
This is another coin picked up recently at Legend’s Regency 32 Auction. From what I have seen so far from the sale, he did not make any BiG purchases, but did pickup several nice upgrades for his collection. The current PCGS Condition Census report shows the top specimens for 1952 to be PCGS MS67FL. Therefore it appears two new top coins have been made or upgraded in the last few months. Legend sold the first one in their Regency 30 sale. Both carried CAC stickers. I wonder if Hansen was the under bidder on that Regency 30 lot. That coin sold for $42,300. Hansen was able to purchase his for $32,900. Quite a difference by waiting a few months. This is what the auctioneer wrote about the coin: Legend Rare Coin Auctions is proud to offer this SUPERB GEM 1952 Franklin half dollar. It is tied with exactly ONE coin for FINEST graded for the date at the very peak of the Population Report. A strong, frosty mint luster blooms on both sides. The surfaces show a pearly silver undertone with much multi-hued iridescent, original mint set toning that graces both the obverse and reverse. Every detail is well struck up and we note only the most minute ticks hidden under the pale blue, coppery-amber, gold, and lilac color in the fields. The eye appeal is very high end. There are just two graded finer at PCGS, none at NGC. The other coin recently sold in our January 2019 Regency 30 Auction for $42,300 on an estimate of $21,000-$23,000. The current PCGS Price Guide value is now listed at $45,000 and with TOP POP Franklin half dollars breaking records in our auctions, we expect that this SUPERB GEM will bring a very strong bid from the advanced Franklin half dollar specialist collector building a world class set. Good luck!
The coin’s pedigree (oops, Provenance) was not given. This coin upgrades Hansen’s previous 1952 Half Dollar, MS67FL Certification #83932148. I am not sure the place of purchase for MS67FL coin, but up to recently, this coin was tied for PCGS finest with POP of 28/0. In January 2017, the coin was valued at $3150. The presently PCGS Price Guide Value is $2,150. The MS67FL has been in downfall the past 10 years, where the value was about $6K.
In comparison, The Eliasberg registry set describes his 1952 Half Dollar Specimen as PCGS graded MS65FL, POP 1413/502, Sold by Bowers & Merena April '97 as part of a large lot #2165. The coin sold in Heritage’s 2007 (FUN) Auction in Orlando, FL for $546. Present PCGS Price Guide Value is $100.
Hansen’s New 1952 Half Dollar Specimen MS67+ FL Certification #36645546, PCGS #86661 PCGS POP 2/0 / PCGS Coin Guide Value: $40,000
.
.
Eliasberg Specimen for comparison
Any Franklin collectors in the house willing to comment?
The 3676 Piece “Hall of Fame” U .S. Coins Complete Basic Set, Circulation Strikes (1792-present) hit a milestone with an update last night. The update improved the overall set to “Choice” weighted GPA (MS63.01). This draws a nice line in the sand for someone try to match in the future. The problem with trying to match is that Hansen is not done. He is upgrading the collection at an incredible pace. What is his goal for the set final grade? Is long-term goal to average “Gem”? That will require many more upgrades, especially when replacing coins that are only a half of a point better. We are seeing cases where that is happening.
Just a few details and facts on the set as of today. There are 1289 specimens in the 3676 piece set that are “Finest or Tied Finest”. This represents 35% of the set. Of the 1289 specimens, 273 specimens are PCGS Top Pop 1/0. This represents 7.4% of the overall set; or another to put it, for every 12 coins, there is a PCGS Pop 1/0 specimen. This is not static, but is increasing due to upgrades. This is another nice fact: 2588 coins are Top 5 Condition Census specimens, or tied. This represents 70.4% of the set! For improvement opportunity side of the discussion, there are 561 specimens that have 10 or more coins that are graded higher. This represents 15.2% for the set; they are great candidates for replacement, but as we have seen, Hansen will replace even a Top 5 Condition Census specimen if a better coin comes available.
Lastly, let me mention CAC stickered specimens. John Brush told us several months ago they have not taken the time to cleanup this issue in the collection. Hansen has purchased several collections that did not have CAC stickered coins. As an example, I will use the great Liberty Head $20 Gold coins in Hansen’s collection. Many of these coins are from the AWA Collection and are not stickered. As the “Hall of Fame” 3676 coins are represented today, the collection has 702 specimens that are noted as CAC. This represents 19.1% of the collection. If you consider pre-1964 coins only, the collection would be about 25% CAC stickered. I think 25% would be the absolute minimum. I will not go out on a limb to take a guess for the actual at this point. If you looking for a nice CAC target, then TDN once told us, that a large general collection as this one, 60%+ would be outstanding.
I will close by saying, at this point; it does not appear Hansen is checking up on the upgrades. What this HOF collection will become when cake is fully baked, we don’t know yet. It is fun to watch the collection improve one coin at a time. I will try to show in the next couple days, a Top Pop upgrade from last night.
The 3676 Piece “Hall of Fame” U .S. Coins Complete Basic Set, Circulation Strikes (1792-present) hit a milestone with an update last night. The update improved the overall set to “Choice” weighted GPA (MS63.01). This draws a nice line in the sand for someone try to match in the future. The problem with trying to match is that Hansen is not done. He is upgrading the collection at an incredible pace. What is his goal for the set final grade? Is long-term goal to average “Gem”? That will require many more upgrades, especially when replacing coins that are only a half of a point better. We are seeing cases where that is happening.
Just a few details and facts on the set as of today. There are 1289 specimens in the 3676 piece set that are “Finest or Tied Finest”. This represents 35% of the set. Of the 1289 specimens, 273 specimens are PCGS Top Pop 1/0. This represents 7.4% of the overall set; or another to put it, for every 12 coins, there is a PCGS Pop 1/0 specimen. This is not static, but is increasing due to upgrades. This is another nice fact: 2588 coins are Top 5 Condition Census specimens, or tied. This represents 70.4% of the set! For improvement opportunity side of the discussion, there are 561 specimens that have 10 or more coins that are graded higher. This represents 15.2% for the set; they are great candidates for replacement, but as we have seen, Hansen will replace even a Top 5 Condition Census specimen if a better coin comes available.
Lastly, let me mention CAC stickered specimens. John Brush told us several months ago they have not taken the time to cleanup this issue in the collection. Hansen has purchased several collections that did not have CAC stickered coins. As an example, I will use the great Liberty Head $20 Gold coins in Hansen’s collection. Many of these coins are from the AWA Collection and are not stickered. As the “Hall of Fame” 3676 coins are represented today, the collection has 702 specimens that are noted as CAC. This represents 19.1% of the collection. If you consider pre-1964 coins only, the collection would be about 25% CAC stickered. I think 25% would be the absolute minimum. I will not go out on a limb to take a guess for the actual at this point. If you looking for a nice CAC target, then TDN once told us, that a large general collection as this one, 60%+ would be outstanding.
I will close by saying, at this point; it does not appear Hansen is checking up on the upgrades. What this HOF collection will become when cake is fully baked, we don’t know yet. It is fun to watch the collection improve one coin at a time. I will try to show in the next couple days, a Top Pop upgrade from last night.
i think that 70% of the coins are condition census is the most impressive to me.
When creating a list of the toughest series to collect, the Liberty Seated Half Dimes, Proof (1837-1857), certainly would be near the top. I think it is safe to say, the feat has never been achieved. According to information that is readily available, John Jay Pittman may have made the best run of known collectors. It has been published that his “early Proof coins were stunning”. In this 22-coin set, he was 86.4% completed. In comparison to Hansen, the collection is 68.2% completed. Hansen Weighted GPA is slightly over MS65, and Pittman was slightly less. The three coins that Pittman was missing: 1853 Arrows (3-5 Known – 1 graded by PCGS), the elusive 1851 (none graded by PCGS, do they exist?) and 1841. The 1841 is the coin that Hansen just added to his collection.
Before discussion of the new addition, let’s converse a little more about this set. All proofs before 1858 are very rare. In some cases, they are controversial. The half dimes seems to fuel this even more. The Proof Capped Bus Half Dimes (1829-1837) is so controversial, that is just recently that PCGS has provided a set. Many specialists in the early Half Dime even question their existence. The Early Proof Seated Liberty Half Dime may not be that extreme, but is very elusive by all measures. PCGS description of the set: This extremely challenging 22-coin date set is filled with rarities and distinctive type coins. The 1837 No Stars is a classic that many consider to be an artistic masterpiece as well as a numismatic treasure. Additional types in this series are the With Drapery and Arrows at Date pieces. The Proofs struck in 1854 and later are more readily available but are still considered to be quite rare.
This coin has risen to the top of the Condition Census for this date for half dimes. The cream always does make it to the top, and this coin is the cream. Expert Ron Guth describes the Proof 1841 this way: Proof 1841 Half Dimes are very rare. Estimates of the number of survivors range from five to twenty examples. We've been able to identify six demonstrably different examples, thus it is reasonable to assume that as many as ten Proof 1841 Dimes exist today. The finest examples are a pair of NGC PR65's: one from the Pittman and Kaufman Collection and another from the Eugene Gardner Collection (based on prior sales records, the market prefers the Gardner example as the more desirable of the two). It seems that all proof 1841 Half Dimes are of the same die variety (V-1). Most are brilliant Proofs, though at least one has been called a Cameo Proof.
This is a roster of the 1841 Proof Seated Liberty Half Dimes from an Auctioneer Description: 1. PR65 PCGS Hansen Specimen. Boys Town (Bowers and Merena, 3/1998), lot 501; Eugene H. Gardner Collection, Part II (Heritage, 10/2014), lot 98212: Heritage, 2019 January 31 - February 3 Long Beach Expo US Coins Signature Auction. 2. PR65 NGC Pittman Specimen. Public Auction Sale (David Bullowa, 5/1952); John Jay Pittman (David Akers, 10/ 1997), lot 465, realized $15,400; Phil Kaufman; FUN Signature (Heritage, 1/2008), lot 3018, realized $46,000; the present coin. 3. PR64 NGC Eliasberg Specimen. Harlan P. Smith Collection (S.H. and H. Chapman, 5/1906), lot 1017; John M. Clapp; Clapp Estate (1942); Louis E. Eliasberg, Sr.; Eliasberg Collection (Bowers and Merena, 5/1996), lot 955; Richmond Collection (David Lawrence, 3/2005), lot 1082, realized $20,700. 4. PR63 NGC. Pre-Long Beach Sale (Superior, 10/2000), lot 4320, $6,900; Fairchild Family Trust (Goldberg Coins, 5/2001), lot 4320; Pre-Long Beach Sale (Superior, 6/ 2002), lot 4140, realized $14,950. 5. PR62. James A. Stack Collection (Stack's, 11/1989), lot 394. 6. PR60 ANACS. New York International Numismatic Convention (Stack's, 12/1999), lot 1592; Pre-Long Beach Sale (Superior, 10/2000), lot 4321. 7. PR60. 1987 ANA (Bowers and Merena, 8/1987), lot 237; Public Auction Sale (Stack's, 3/1991), lot 1504; Public Auction Sale (Stack's, 3/ 1996), lot 249. 8. Proof. New York Sale (New England Rare Coin Auctions, 3/1997), lot 41. 9. Proof. Smithsonian Institution.
From online records, this coin was sold in the Heritage 2019, Long Beach Signature Auction on or before February 3rd, 2019. I would assume Hansen purchased the coin in the auction, but that is not confirmed. The coin appeared in the auction as an 1841 H10C PR65 NGC CAC. The coin was describe as: Russet, pale blue, and silver-white areas alternate to splendid effect on this attractive Gem proof 1841 half dime, one of perhaps eight to 10 known to survive of this early proof issue. The design elements are fully struck. NGC reports one each in PR63, PR64, and two in PR65, while PCGS shows two examples in PR63 and one in PR63 Cameo, making a total of seven grading events between the two services -- not necessarily all separate coins. In any case, this piece is tied for finest graded, at a minimum, and is the finer of only two with the CAC green approval sticker (12/18). Developing rosters of distinctly different survivors of these early proofs is not for the faint of heart; some examples trade privately or stay in one collection for decades. Others appear at auction in old catalogs with minimal descriptions and poor (or no) photographs, making their documentation and identification virtually impossible. Although we find seven separate grading events for the 1841 proof half dime, the number of survivors could be as low as five or as high as 10, although we lean in the direction of the lower number.
This coin was sold in two other large sales. First, the Boys Town Collection auctioned by Bowers and Merena in 1998. Later, the Eugene H. Gardner Collection, auctioned by Heritage in 2014. I cannot be certain if Hansen purchased the coin in January of this year, and just found the time to have it crossed over by PCGS, or if someone else purchased the coin, crossed it over and sold it to Hansen. Either way, the coin has significant increased in value since February. PCGS Price Guide Value places the estimate for specimen at $50,000. The coin sold four months ago in a NGC PR65 holder for $19,200. This is a very nice increase.
Provenance: Boys Town (Bowers and Merena, 3/1998), lot 501; Eugene H. Gardner Collection, Part II (Heritage, 10/2014), lot 98212.
In comparing the specimens of Hansen’s and Eliasberg’s, the Hansen coin is a higher grade.
Interestingly, although proof 1841 half dimes are extremely rare, there are actually 2 die varieties.
It's fairly easy to see when looking at the date position with modern available online photos.
Although Breen discovered many of the multiple die varieties for single date proof half dimes, he didn't note this one.
Of course he was taking his notes back before these big photos were shared online, there were very few specimens to compare, and the difference is small.
I noticed it when preparing my 1841 half dime attribution guide (PDF available soon).
Here are the proofs by die variety, for the photos I've seen:
V-1 PR-65 Pittman, Kaufman
V-1 PR-64 Eliasberg, Richmond
V-1 PR-x Valentine's plate coin - might be one of the above
V-8u PR-65 Gardner
V-8u PR-63 cam Heritage 2014-6
The Gardner coin was up for sale on ebay on 2019-3 by rarecoinwholesalersca, so it is possible Hansen bought it from them.
@tradedollarnut said:
I dunno but he’s like 6 grade points behind me in the early dollars (au58 avg vs ms64 avg)
Good to know. For circulation coins, it looks like he has some catching up to do in grades, but he is #2. For circulation and proofs, he's ahead despite lower grades due to higher completeness. This shows the focus on quality vs. completeness.
There are a a number of sets so I just looked up a few:
@tradedollarnut said:
He’s 7 points behind High Desert in Large Cents
He's #2 in both the basic circulation set and major varieties with proof sets, behind High Desert and ESM respectively. Looks like he has a ways to go to claim #1 in both of these sets.
@washingtonrainbows said:
Biggest miss so far IMHO was the recent 1913 Liberty Nickel that he passed on. Should have passed on hundreds of the top pop 20 k coins and got the recent 1913 IMHO. Those top pop 20k coins will always be around. Only Five 1913 Liberty nickels known who knows when next one is available and at what price.
Only he can answer that question. Perhaps he thought it would come around again as it's typically been treated as a trophy coin in the past. A big change is Forsythe is making a Lib nickel set now.
Laura speculated he may not feel the need to include it, but he does have an 1804 dollar and Eliasberg had a 1913 lib nickel.
@tradedollarnut said:
I dunno but he’s like 6 grade points behind me in the early dollars (au58 avg vs ms64 avg)
I don't doubt TDN's stats, but a better comparison would Hansen v. Eliasberg (or anyone else attempting the entire U.S. set). Now, if Hansen decides he's only going to collect early dollars, then we have something to talk about.
@Gazes said: @currin im aware of so many of Hansen's top 1 or 2 registry sets but what is his lowest ranked registry set ?
FYI---the reason I ask is twofold. Are there series that are sleepers that Hansen has found tougher and where does he have potential to upgrade the most.
@tradedollarnut said:
I dunno but he’s like 6 grade points behind me in the early dollars (au58 avg vs ms64 avg)
I don't doubt TDN's stats, but a better comparison would Hansen v. Eliasberg (or anyone else attempting the entire U.S. set). Now, if Hansen decides he's only going to collect early dollars, then we have something to talk about.
Capped Bust Quarters 1815 to 1838 with redbook varieties is MS65 for the top set vs. Del Loy AU53. Mostly because of the 1823/2 Quarter still being low grade, but the set will jump considerably when that one coin is upgraded. And the set is still ranked second because it is complete.
@Gazes said: @currin im aware of so many of Hansen's top 1 or 2 registry sets but what is his lowest ranked registry set ?
FYI---the reason I ask is twofold. Are there series that are sleepers that Hansen has found tougher and where does he have potential to upgrade the most.
If I read your original question correctly, “what is his lowest ranked registry set?” I will provide three answers.
First, to be the absolute lowest rank, then it has to be a popular set. The absolute lowest rank is #129. This is a set that listed under a pseudonym Diana. This may the name of his daughter. Hansen’s primary set is ranked #4 All-Time Finest, behind Kutz, and two other retired sets. He also has another set that 60%, so I don’t the absolute lowest ranked is what you are looking for.
Second, the lowest ranked 90-100% completed is a “second set” of Kennedy Half Proof Dollars. Again, I don’t think this is what you are looking for because his top set is tied for #2 All-Time Finest.
Third, I think this is the most meaningful one. The lowest rank primary set is #68, Susan B. Anthony Dollars with Major Varieties set. These are mint state coins. This set has only two coins that I would say comes close to Hansen’s standard. The set should be easy to improve due to low graded coins. It is a little odd, that he has only one set listed. I am not sure why he is not actively upgrading this set. Being so many coins need to be replaced, he may be waiting for a nice set to come along. I wish I had a high grade set to offer JB. The lowest coin in the set is the 1999-P SBA$1 MS66 POP 971/457. Even my set has a better specimen.
I can not leave the posting without showing something good. Bruce has mentioned the Bust Dollars before. It not just the dollar set, but all the Early Coinage have coins that are candidates for upgrades. As of today, he has made the best progress with Half Dimes. This set speaks for itself!
DLRC has added a Hansen page to their website. The page is title Home to the D.L. Hansen Collection. The site features a few of his GEMs, including the 1804 dollar. JB calls these coins; Highlights of the Permanent Hansen Collection. The site also has a “Now Available for Sale” section. I am not sure if the page will grow over time, but I can see the potential. JB makes this reference: offer some of his significant duplicates in our upcoming auctions. Last, the site has links to view several of his sets. Note the bottom ribbon on the header below.
Some odd items for resale along with some amazing duplicates. One such oddity is a group of 10 1963 Franklin 50c, all MS65. An early foray by Mr. Hansen?
@privaterarecoincollector said:
At the moment its by far not the greatest collection ever assembled (and the 1804 dollar is no Gem).
Although everyone is free to define their own measure of "greatest", the Hansen set is slightly better than the Eliasberg for the simplest set definition "U.S. COINS COMPLETE BASIC SET, CIRCULATION STRIKES (1792-1964)", in terms of completion % and weighted grade.
The Eliasberg set is compared using many estimated grades, and other things could be recalculated, but it's a fairly neutral metric.
All-Time Finest (All Eras)View PCGS Era
Rank Set Name % Complete GPA Weighted GPA with Top
Pop Bonuses Set Rating
1 D.L. Hansen. Complete US Set. (1792-1964) 2017 2018 UPDATED 99.65% 62.52 62.92 62.36
2 Louis Eliasberg 99.61% 58.23 R 58.33 57.95
Plus @Currin did a breakdown by series, comparing individual coins in this thread, and the conclusion was the same with the Hansen set having the majority of coins with higher grade.
In the "100 Greatest US Coins", Eliasberg still has the lead, as this puts a zero weight on coins below the top 100, so things like the missing 1913 Liberty Nickel and the grade of the 1804 dollar will count more. https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/famous-u-s-coins/100-greatest-u-s-coins/1576
While the top 100 are great coins, it is a fairly different type of collection than the "Complete US Set".
This is worth noting. I like how Dell Loy started with a Dansco. It would be useful to have some clarification on the scope he's working on as it does say he's working on "duplicating and extending the historic Eliasberg Collection, the most complete collection of U.S. Coins of all-time." The question is what's determined as a "U.S. Coin" here. Does it include all things in the Eliasberg set such as Stellas, 1913 Liberty nickel, gold Confederate cent, territorial gold?
Dell Loy Hansen joined with David Lawrence Rare Coins in January of 2018. In August of 2016. Mr. Hansen picked up his Dansco album and decided to rejoin the ranks of coin collectors throughout the realm of American numismatics. Quickly, the hobby took hold, and he decided to begin a monumental trek towards duplicating and extending the historic Eliasberg Collection, the most complete collection of U.S. Coins of all-time. The Eliasberg Collection contained coins through 1964; however, Hansen determined that extending his collection to the current day would be even larger and more important challenge.
IF he completes what appears to be his his quest and has one example of every circulation strike and one example of every proof then in my mind he will absolutely exceed Eliasberg
Right now, it’s a bit premature. He’s missing too many great coins.
D. L. Hansen is two years and 10 months in what I would call the “big show”. From day one, he has come into this league and excelled. If we are comparing to NFL, he would have won the Rookie of the Year, and been a starter in the Pro Bowl his first year. In year two, PCGS placed Hansen in the Hall of Fame for Complete US Coins. For year three, we will know in about 30 days.
If my count is correct, only 16 collectors have received the honor of PCGS Hall of Fame for Complete US Coins . First Collector/Family being Lorin G. Parmelee (Retired about 1890). I would contribute the last to be Louis Eliasberg, Sr. or John J. Pittman. I think Eliasberg’s collection was completely sold by 1997, and Pittman by 1999, so officially maybe we should call Pittman the last HOF Complete US Coin Collector. If you look at these 15 collectors prior to Hansen, at least someone was in the game from the mid-1800’s to the end of the 20th century. Many of them overlapped. The sales of Eliasberg and Pittman ended approx. a century and half era.
Our present century is only Specialist Collectors, Series, Sets, Top Coin boxes and others that just collect in limited fashion. I think everyone should agree (but I know everyone will not) that Hansen is in a league of his own. Back to why I tend to agree with Bruce, but maybe for a different reason.
If Hansen was to stop with just three years in the game, I believe it would be similar to a great NFL player (as described above) that career was cut short after three years due to an injury. I would compare this to Bo Jackson. He was really a great player, marketing king, being called the Greatest of All-Time, but it ended. He is remembered, but typically don’t show up on Greatest of All-Time lists. If he had stayed in the game (NFL & MLB), it is no telling how many all-time records he would have broken.
Now, if Hansen makes this a 10-15 year endeavor (with his first 3 year pace), and completing mint and proof sets with major varieties. Also, I see him actively working on minor varieties, die states, etc. If he keep his key duplicates and build multiple sets as he have today, then if not already, I think for certain The Collection will be remembered forever more as the Greatest Collection of US Coins.
You may ask why I say I “tend to agree” with Bruce, and not that I “do agree completely”. I have stated before, Eliasberg is known to have the Greatest Collection of US Coins. I don’t recall anyone taking that title from him in the last 40-50 years. If someone did, step up and show us coin by coin, as I have done over the last year with comparing Hansen and Eliasberg. I certainly disagree with the statement that Hansen is far from having the greatest collection (or exact words “by far”). Overall the Hansen set is better than the Eliasberg Greatest Collection. So, I think Hansen and JB are making a valid point when they say what they do. But also, I understand the points and statements made by Bruce and Laura . Time will tell…
@tradedollarnut said:
IF he completes what appears to be his his quest and has one example of every circulation strike and one example of every proof then in my mind he will absolutely exceed Eliasberg
Right now, it’s a bit premature. He’s missing too many great coins.
I agree in the sense that the main comparison has to be on completion of the date/mint mark set,
though still conditional on some comparable metric of "overall" quality.
That quest continues, and I agree it is better to wait and look at grades after the collection is complete.
(Looks like he is doing fine on grades so far, although there is still the question of how to best weight grades when comparing the sets).
I had thought it might be OK to compare the listed "completion %" from the registry index page.
We already know this has some issues because some coins are left out of this particular registry set because they are "proof only" or because they are some kind of variety that is also extremely rare, like the 1873-CC No Arrows Dime. Or even just an extremely rare coin that makes set completion difficult, like the 1870-S Half Dime. So @Currin has adjusted for this by constructing his own set list, and we know @tradedollarnut agrees (at least with most of the items) and thinks PCGS is missing out on not making this a registry list.
But I realized there is an additional problem with using the current listed "completion %".
It should really have a 100% completion, but the page says 99.61% .
If I sort it by grade, the following show up as not in the Eliasberg (Circulation Strike) set:
1841 10C
1870 10C
1825/4/2 25C
1878 7/8TF $1
1796/5 $5
1818 $5
1825 $5
1828 $5
1829 $5 Large Size
1831 $5
1839 $10 Type of 1840
[EDITED: Eliasberg had 10/11 of these coins. The 11th (1878 7/8TF $1) should not really be in this list.
All but one of these appear to be database entry/matching errors in the Eliasberg Registry Set.
See the posts below.]
So I apologize for trying to use the completion % from that page.
The set composition is still a little tricky.
For example, the 1870-S Half Dime was not known when Eliasberg was collecting.
And the 1933 Double Eagle - Eliasberg bought one in 1944, but gave it up in 1952 when requested.
Now they are illegal to own except for that one coin involved in a lawsuit.
So probably neither of these should count in the comparison.
One more thing - Eliasberg did not have a complete proof set, so it is not necessary for Hansen to have a complete proof set before making a comparison. I think the comparison should be on the basis of Eliasberg's collection style - either a circulation strike or proof strike for each date/ mint mark. It will still be tricky if comparing a proof to circulation grade, so the comparison will be simpler if Hansen has a similar completion of proofs as Eliasberg.
I looked at this list several months ago. If I recall, I was able to confirmed that Eliasberg had all of them except two. I remember one being the 1878 7/8TF. I don't remember the other one. I have it in my notes somewhere. I offered to help PCGS fix the set. I was willing to lookup and provide the special PCGS numbers that are designated for Eliasberg coins. They never responded, so I assumed they had no interest to fix.
1841 10C
1870 10C
1825/4/2 25C
1878 7/8TF $1
1796/5 $5
1818 $5
1825 $5
1828 $5
1829 $5 Large Size
1831 $5
1839 $10 Type of 1840
Do you mean that you checked and Eliasberg had circulation strikes of these coins?
If so, they could be database entry errors, which is what I originally wrote in my post until I edited,
figuring that he had proofs for these years.
The following are "Redbook" die varieties and in my view should not be on the "Basic" set list:
His USPI collection was pedigreed by PCGS, just as his patterns were. I had in my hands just yesterday the key date (1905) 50 Centavos Proof in top PR67 grade pedigreed to Eliasberg on the insert.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Do you mean that you checked and Eliasberg had circulation strikes of these coins?
If so, they could be database entry errors, which is what I originally wrote in my post until I edited,
figuring that he had proofs for these years.
The following are "Redbook" die varieties and in my view should not be on the "Basic" set list:
1878 7/8TF $1
1829 $5 Large Size
1839 $10 Type of 1840
I don’t recall if they were proof or circulated strikes. I think most were CS. In Eliasberg sets, his proofs are listed in his Circulated Strikes sets. It appears PCGS gave special privilege for this in his sets only. His proofs are given corresponding MS grades that counts for percentage completed and weighted average. For example, if Eliasberg’s specimen is a choice proof, then the coin is graded MS63. See examples below.
@Currin said:
I looked at this list several months ago. If I recall, I was able to confirmed that Eliasberg had all of them except two. I remember one being the 1878 7/8TF. I don't remember the other one. I have it in my notes somewhere. I offered to help PCGS fix the set. I was willing to lookup and provide the special PCGS numbers that are designated for Eliasberg coins. They never responded, so I assumed they had no interest to fix.
Thanks for explaining.
PCGS has the Eliasberg sales by lot number in their database, so I looked them all up like you did:
It seems like they are mostly due to database mismatches on the CoinNum ID, when there is more than one CoinNum for the date. Although there should be a hierarchy where the database knows all the CoinNums for the date.
It would be great to get these glitches fixed, as the Registry Set could be an even better tool for looking at Hansen's quest on the Eliasberg Challenge. @BrettPCGS, could you advise on who maintains the Eliasberg Registry Set lists?
His USPI collection was pedigreed by PCGS, just as his patterns were. I had in my hands just yesterday the key date (1905) 50 Centavos Proof in top PR67 grade pedigreed to Eliasberg on the insert.
Wondercoin
Nice. I wonder if it’s worth Justin's time to get PCGS to create an All-Time USPI Eliasberg Set? He does have a business in USPI coins.
I can't find an Eliasberg set in any of the following All-Time Finest (All Eras) USPI sets. I wonder where an Eliasberg set would rank.
This has good coverage in the higher denomination proofs, but is missing most of the lower denominations.
I found a few others on the web, and I checked all adjacent Cert numbers.
Here is the overall list of what I found:
denom date mm grade PCGS Cert number
0.5 1903 PR-65 RB 15114144
0.5 1905 PR-64 RD 10949637
1 1905 PR-64 RB 15114145
5 1918 S AU-55 10949686 Allen-4.08b Mule
10 1903 PR-65 15114147
10 1904 PR-66 15114148
10 1905 MS-65 15114146
10 1905 PR-66 15114149
10 1905 PR-65 15114150
20 1903 PR-66 10949746
20 1905 PR-66 10949730
20 1906 PR-67 10949729
20 1907 S MS-63 10949728
20 1915 S MS-65 10949685
50 1903 PR-65 10949638
50 1905 PR-66 10949731
50 1907 S MS-66 10949727
100 1903 PR-65 10949639
100 1904 PR-65 10949640
100 1905 PR-66 10949733
100 1906 PR-65 10949732
100 1910 S MS-66 10949726
100 1912 S MS-65 10949784
And simply put, Eliasberg had a wonderful United States pattern collection as far as I know (I own at least one of his former coins) as well as a wonderful United States Philippine collection - the only bi-National Coins our US mints ever struck. I always thought it would have been a good idea to set up a “Complete” Eliasberg Registry set, including these US coin series. Why exclude them, if Eliasberg seriously collected them?
As always, just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
@washingtonrainbows said:
Biggest miss so far IMHO was the recent 1913 Liberty Nickel that he passed on. Should have passed on hundreds of the top pop 20 k coins and got the recent 1913 IMHO. Those top pop 20k coins will always be around. Only Five 1913 Liberty nickels known who knows when next one is available and at what price.
Only he can answer that question. Perhaps he thought it would come around again as it's typically been treated as a trophy coin in the past. A big change is Forsythe is making a Lib nickel set now.
Laura speculated he may not feel the need to include it, but he does have an 1804 dollar and Eliasberg had a 1913 lib nickel.
We've addressed this several times, but happy to again.
We bought the 1804 as it was a fantastic value at the time. The 1913 Nickel is still a fantasy item and we were interested if it came in a price range that we thought it was worth, but overall this isn't a coin that Dell Loy feels like is the cornerstone of the set. He understands that total completion isn't possible, but we'll complete as much as we can with the highest quality possible...
John Brush President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com email: John@davidlawrence.com 2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
@Gazes said: @currin im aware of so many of Hansen's top 1 or 2 registry sets but what is his lowest ranked registry set ?
FYI---the reason I ask is twofold. Are there series that are sleepers that Hansen has found tougher and where does he have potential to upgrade the most.
The set of Newcombe Variety Large Cents is probably the lowest graded overall on average.
The Proof Indian Cent Collection wasn't very impressive a few months ago grade-wise, but the eye appeal was amazing.
John Brush President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com email: John@davidlawrence.com 2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
@washingtonrainbows said:
Biggest miss so far IMHO was the recent 1913 Liberty Nickel that he passed on. Should have passed on hundreds of the top pop 20 k coins and got the recent 1913 IMHO. Those top pop 20k coins will always be around. Only Five 1913 Liberty nickels known who knows when next one is available and at what price.
Only he can answer that question. Perhaps he thought it would come around again as it's typically been treated as a trophy coin in the past. A big change is Forsythe is making a Lib nickel set now.
Laura speculated he may not feel the need to include it, but he does have an 1804 dollar and Eliasberg had a 1913 lib nickel.
We've addressed this several times, but happy to again.
We bought the 1804 as it was a fantastic value at the time. The 1913 Nickel is still a fantasy item and we were interested if it came in a price range that we thought it was worth, but overall this isn't a coin that Dell Loy feels like is the cornerstone of the set. He understands that total completion isn't possible, but we'll complete as much as we can with the highest quality possible...
Not a cornerstone? At 3 years of buying coins you need to educate him. It will be a glaring empty whole. He is trying for the best set ever, I think many will consider the lack of the 1913 Nickel to be a significant missing piece. Especially since he had an opportunity to buy one.
Well, no matter the origins, it’s not a regular issue.
Thanks for the repost @JBatDavidLawrence. I must have missed it in the commotion the first time around.
Comments
Either would do...
My YouTube Channel
Franklin Upgrade
I may have shown a Franklin piece before, but don’t remember a full discussion on the Franklin series. A predominant poster on this forum recently called registry sets as time-wasting and other silliness. There must be a lot of half dollar collectors of Franklin Half Dollars FBL Basic Set, Circulation Strikes (1948-1963) that fall into this craze. The Franklin Half Dollar set that I like to reference the most frequently is the FBL Basic Circulation Strikes Set. This 35 piece set has almost 500 listed registry sets. That’s correct, 478 as of today. This is the most popular mint strike half dollar set. The Kennedy Proof has most registry sets. I am not sure if I know what make the Franklin series so popular. It is hard for me to see the beauty in the coin compared to the other half dollar designs. Maybe it is the fact the series lasted only 15 years. I believe the series was cut short by the assassination of our 35th president. Or, maybe the fact that a very low pop, high grade coin can be found at a reasonable price. PCGS describes the set as: Mintages are irrelevant when gauging the rarity of a Franklin issue in MS 65 or MS 65 FBL (or higher grade). Original BU rolls of Franklin half dollars rarely contain even a single MS 65 coin. Because this series is both challenging and affordable, it has become one of the most popular of all U. S. coins sets to assemble. As this is being written only twenty sets can be put together in MS65FBL, and one set is possible in MS66FBL! Most collectors assemble this set with as many FBL pieces as possible, then fill in the holes with non-FBL specimens until the right coins come along.
Presently, Hansen’s Franklin Half Dollars FBL Basic Set is 5th in the All-Time Finest (All Eras) ranking. To be in the top 1% is a nice accomplishment for most of us. I don’t want to go as far as to say that Hansen is silly, or wasting his time, but he does play hard ball as far as the registry completion is concerned. I believe this to be one of his sets that he would like to build to the top, even though the #1 set will be a big challenge to overcome. Hansen’s presently has 10 of his specimens out of the 31 that is tied for the finest graded by PCGS. In comparison, the All-Time #1 set has four PCGS POP 1/0 out of possible seven. Also, 26 of the 31 required coins are either finest or tied for finest. As you can see, Hansen has a lot of work to do.
1952 Half Dollar MS67+ FL
This is another coin picked up recently at Legend’s Regency 32 Auction. From what I have seen so far from the sale, he did not make any BiG purchases, but did pickup several nice upgrades for his collection. The current PCGS Condition Census report shows the top specimens for 1952 to be PCGS MS67FL. Therefore it appears two new top coins have been made or upgraded in the last few months. Legend sold the first one in their Regency 30 sale. Both carried CAC stickers. I wonder if Hansen was the under bidder on that Regency 30 lot. That coin sold for $42,300. Hansen was able to purchase his for $32,900. Quite a difference by waiting a few months. This is what the auctioneer wrote about the coin: Legend Rare Coin Auctions is proud to offer this SUPERB GEM 1952 Franklin half dollar. It is tied with exactly ONE coin for FINEST graded for the date at the very peak of the Population Report. A strong, frosty mint luster blooms on both sides. The surfaces show a pearly silver undertone with much multi-hued iridescent, original mint set toning that graces both the obverse and reverse. Every detail is well struck up and we note only the most minute ticks hidden under the pale blue, coppery-amber, gold, and lilac color in the fields. The eye appeal is very high end. There are just two graded finer at PCGS, none at NGC. The other coin recently sold in our January 2019 Regency 30 Auction for $42,300 on an estimate of $21,000-$23,000. The current PCGS Price Guide value is now listed at $45,000 and with TOP POP Franklin half dollars breaking records in our auctions, we expect that this SUPERB GEM will bring a very strong bid from the advanced Franklin half dollar specialist collector building a world class set. Good luck!
The coin’s pedigree (oops, Provenance) was not given. This coin upgrades Hansen’s previous 1952 Half Dollar, MS67FL Certification #83932148. I am not sure the place of purchase for MS67FL coin, but up to recently, this coin was tied for PCGS finest with POP of 28/0. In January 2017, the coin was valued at $3150. The presently PCGS Price Guide Value is $2,150. The MS67FL has been in downfall the past 10 years, where the value was about $6K.
In comparison, The Eliasberg registry set describes his 1952 Half Dollar Specimen as PCGS graded MS65FL, POP 1413/502, Sold by Bowers & Merena April '97 as part of a large lot #2165. The coin sold in Heritage’s 2007 (FUN) Auction in Orlando, FL for $546. Present PCGS Price Guide Value is $100.
Hansen’s New 1952 Half Dollar Specimen
MS67+ FL Certification #36645546, PCGS #86661
PCGS POP 2/0 / PCGS Coin Guide Value: $40,000
.
.
Eliasberg Specimen for comparison
Any Franklin collectors in the house willing to comment?
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
Collection Milestone
The 3676 Piece “Hall of Fame” U .S. Coins Complete Basic Set, Circulation Strikes (1792-present) hit a milestone with an update last night. The update improved the overall set to “Choice” weighted GPA (MS63.01). This draws a nice line in the sand for someone try to match in the future. The problem with trying to match is that Hansen is not done. He is upgrading the collection at an incredible pace. What is his goal for the set final grade? Is long-term goal to average “Gem”? That will require many more upgrades, especially when replacing coins that are only a half of a point better. We are seeing cases where that is happening.
Just a few details and facts on the set as of today. There are 1289 specimens in the 3676 piece set that are “Finest or Tied Finest”. This represents 35% of the set. Of the 1289 specimens, 273 specimens are PCGS Top Pop 1/0. This represents 7.4% of the overall set; or another to put it, for every 12 coins, there is a PCGS Pop 1/0 specimen. This is not static, but is increasing due to upgrades. This is another nice fact: 2588 coins are Top 5 Condition Census specimens, or tied. This represents 70.4% of the set! For improvement opportunity side of the discussion, there are 561 specimens that have 10 or more coins that are graded higher. This represents 15.2% for the set; they are great candidates for replacement, but as we have seen, Hansen will replace even a Top 5 Condition Census specimen if a better coin comes available.
Lastly, let me mention CAC stickered specimens. John Brush told us several months ago they have not taken the time to cleanup this issue in the collection. Hansen has purchased several collections that did not have CAC stickered coins. As an example, I will use the great Liberty Head $20 Gold coins in Hansen’s collection. Many of these coins are from the AWA Collection and are not stickered. As the “Hall of Fame” 3676 coins are represented today, the collection has 702 specimens that are noted as CAC. This represents 19.1% of the collection. If you consider pre-1964 coins only, the collection would be about 25% CAC stickered. I think 25% would be the absolute minimum. I will not go out on a limb to take a guess for the actual at this point. If you looking for a nice CAC target, then TDN once told us, that a large general collection as this one, 60%+ would be outstanding.
I will close by saying, at this point; it does not appear Hansen is checking up on the upgrades. What this HOF collection will become when cake is fully baked, we don’t know yet. It is fun to watch the collection improve one coin at a time. I will try to show in the next couple days, a Top Pop upgrade from last night.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
i think that 70% of the coins are condition census is the most impressive to me.
Proof Early Seated Liberty Half Dime
When creating a list of the toughest series to collect, the Liberty Seated Half Dimes, Proof (1837-1857), certainly would be near the top. I think it is safe to say, the feat has never been achieved. According to information that is readily available, John Jay Pittman may have made the best run of known collectors. It has been published that his “early Proof coins were stunning”. In this 22-coin set, he was 86.4% completed. In comparison to Hansen, the collection is 68.2% completed. Hansen Weighted GPA is slightly over MS65, and Pittman was slightly less. The three coins that Pittman was missing: 1853 Arrows (3-5 Known – 1 graded by PCGS), the elusive 1851 (none graded by PCGS, do they exist?) and 1841. The 1841 is the coin that Hansen just added to his collection.
Before discussion of the new addition, let’s converse a little more about this set. All proofs before 1858 are very rare. In some cases, they are controversial. The half dimes seems to fuel this even more. The Proof Capped Bus Half Dimes (1829-1837) is so controversial, that is just recently that PCGS has provided a set. Many specialists in the early Half Dime even question their existence. The Early Proof Seated Liberty Half Dime may not be that extreme, but is very elusive by all measures. PCGS description of the set: This extremely challenging 22-coin date set is filled with rarities and distinctive type coins. The 1837 No Stars is a classic that many consider to be an artistic masterpiece as well as a numismatic treasure. Additional types in this series are the With Drapery and Arrows at Date pieces. The Proofs struck in 1854 and later are more readily available but are still considered to be quite rare.
1841 H10C PR65 – Ex: Gardner - Finest PCGS POP 1/0 – CAC (not verified)
This coin has risen to the top of the Condition Census for this date for half dimes. The cream always does make it to the top, and this coin is the cream. Expert Ron Guth describes the Proof 1841 this way: Proof 1841 Half Dimes are very rare. Estimates of the number of survivors range from five to twenty examples. We've been able to identify six demonstrably different examples, thus it is reasonable to assume that as many as ten Proof 1841 Dimes exist today. The finest examples are a pair of NGC PR65's: one from the Pittman and Kaufman Collection and another from the Eugene Gardner Collection (based on prior sales records, the market prefers the Gardner example as the more desirable of the two). It seems that all proof 1841 Half Dimes are of the same die variety (V-1). Most are brilliant Proofs, though at least one has been called a Cameo Proof.
This is a roster of the 1841 Proof Seated Liberty Half Dimes from an Auctioneer Description:
1. PR65 PCGS Hansen Specimen. Boys Town (Bowers and Merena, 3/1998), lot 501; Eugene H. Gardner Collection, Part II (Heritage, 10/2014), lot 98212: Heritage, 2019 January 31 - February 3 Long Beach Expo US Coins Signature Auction.
2. PR65 NGC Pittman Specimen. Public Auction Sale (David Bullowa, 5/1952); John Jay Pittman (David Akers, 10/ 1997), lot 465, realized $15,400; Phil Kaufman; FUN Signature (Heritage, 1/2008), lot 3018, realized $46,000; the present coin.
3. PR64 NGC Eliasberg Specimen. Harlan P. Smith Collection (S.H. and H. Chapman, 5/1906), lot 1017; John M. Clapp; Clapp Estate (1942); Louis E. Eliasberg, Sr.; Eliasberg Collection (Bowers and Merena, 5/1996), lot 955; Richmond Collection (David Lawrence, 3/2005), lot 1082, realized $20,700.
4. PR63 NGC. Pre-Long Beach Sale (Superior, 10/2000), lot 4320, $6,900; Fairchild Family Trust (Goldberg Coins, 5/2001), lot 4320; Pre-Long Beach Sale (Superior, 6/ 2002), lot 4140, realized $14,950.
5. PR62. James A. Stack Collection (Stack's, 11/1989), lot 394.
6. PR60 ANACS. New York International Numismatic Convention (Stack's, 12/1999), lot 1592; Pre-Long Beach Sale (Superior, 10/2000), lot 4321.
7. PR60. 1987 ANA (Bowers and Merena, 8/1987), lot 237; Public Auction Sale (Stack's, 3/1991), lot 1504; Public Auction Sale (Stack's, 3/ 1996), lot 249.
8. Proof. New York Sale (New England Rare Coin Auctions, 3/1997), lot 41.
9. Proof. Smithsonian Institution.
From online records, this coin was sold in the Heritage 2019, Long Beach Signature Auction on or before February 3rd, 2019. I would assume Hansen purchased the coin in the auction, but that is not confirmed. The coin appeared in the auction as an 1841 H10C PR65 NGC CAC. The coin was describe as: Russet, pale blue, and silver-white areas alternate to splendid effect on this attractive Gem proof 1841 half dime, one of perhaps eight to 10 known to survive of this early proof issue. The design elements are fully struck. NGC reports one each in PR63, PR64, and two in PR65, while PCGS shows two examples in PR63 and one in PR63 Cameo, making a total of seven grading events between the two services -- not necessarily all separate coins. In any case, this piece is tied for finest graded, at a minimum, and is the finer of only two with the CAC green approval sticker (12/18). Developing rosters of distinctly different survivors of these early proofs is not for the faint of heart; some examples trade privately or stay in one collection for decades. Others appear at auction in old catalogs with minimal descriptions and poor (or no) photographs, making their documentation and identification virtually impossible. Although we find seven separate grading events for the 1841 proof half dime, the number of survivors could be as low as five or as high as 10, although we lean in the direction of the lower number.
This coin was sold in two other large sales. First, the Boys Town Collection auctioned by Bowers and Merena in 1998. Later, the Eugene H. Gardner Collection, auctioned by Heritage in 2014. I cannot be certain if Hansen purchased the coin in January of this year, and just found the time to have it crossed over by PCGS, or if someone else purchased the coin, crossed it over and sold it to Hansen. Either way, the coin has significant increased in value since February. PCGS Price Guide Value places the estimate for specimen at $50,000. The coin sold four months ago in a NGC PR65 holder for $19,200. This is a very nice increase.
Provenance: Boys Town (Bowers and Merena, 3/1998), lot 501; Eugene H. Gardner Collection, Part II (Heritage, 10/2014), lot 98212.
In comparing the specimens of Hansen’s and Eliasberg’s, the Hansen coin is a higher grade.
1841 PR65 Half Dime (Gold Shield)
Certification #37787844, PCGS #4417
PCGS POP 1/0 / PCGS Coin Guide Value: $50,000
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
Interestingly, although proof 1841 half dimes are extremely rare, there are actually 2 die varieties.
It's fairly easy to see when looking at the date position with modern available online photos.
Although Breen discovered many of the multiple die varieties for single date proof half dimes, he didn't note this one.
Of course he was taking his notes back before these big photos were shared online, there were very few specimens to compare, and the difference is small.
I noticed it when preparing my 1841 half dime attribution guide (PDF available soon).
Here are the proofs by die variety, for the photos I've seen:
V-1 PR-65 Pittman, Kaufman
V-1 PR-64 Eliasberg, Richmond
V-1 PR-x Valentine's plate coin - might be one of the above
V-8u PR-65 Gardner
V-8u PR-63 cam Heritage 2014-6
The Gardner coin was up for sale on ebay on 2019-3 by rarecoinwholesalersca, so it is possible Hansen bought it from them.
Thanks YOS for the posting. This is very good research. I wonder if Hansen will try to get a pair of 1841 proof Half Dimes,
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
@currin im aware of so many of Hansen's top 1 or 2 registry sets but what is his lowest ranked registry set ?
I dunno but he’s like 6 grade points behind me in the early dollars (au58 avg vs ms64 avg)
He’s 7 points behind High Desert in Large Cents
Good to know. For circulation coins, it looks like he has some catching up to do in grades, but he is #2. For circulation and proofs, he's ahead despite lower grades due to higher completeness. This shows the focus on quality vs. completeness.
There are a a number of sets so I just looked up a few:
EARLY DOLLARS BASIC SET, CIRCULATION STRIKES (1794-1803)
EARLY DOLLARS BASIC SET, CIRCULATION STRIKES AND PROOF (1794-1804)
EARLY DOLLARS WITH MAJOR VARIETIES, CIRCULATION STRIKES AND PROOF (1794-1804)
He's #2 in both the basic circulation set and major varieties with proof sets, behind High Desert and ESM respectively. Looks like he has a ways to go to claim #1 in both of these sets.
LARGE CENTS BASIC SET, CIRCULATION STRIKES (1793-1814)
LARGE CENTS WITH MAJOR VARIETIES, CIRCULATION STRIKES AND PROOF (1793-1857)
Only he can answer that question. Perhaps he thought it would come around again as it's typically been treated as a trophy coin in the past. A big change is Forsythe is making a Lib nickel set now.
Laura speculated he may not feel the need to include it, but he does have an 1804 dollar and Eliasberg had a 1913 lib nickel.
I don't doubt TDN's stats, but a better comparison would Hansen v. Eliasberg (or anyone else attempting the entire U.S. set). Now, if Hansen decides he's only going to collect early dollars, then we have something to talk about.
FYI---the reason I ask is twofold. Are there series that are sleepers that Hansen has found tougher and where does he have potential to upgrade the most.
The question was specifically asked...
Capped Bust Quarters 1815 to 1838 with redbook varieties is MS65 for the top set vs. Del Loy AU53. Mostly because of the 1823/2 Quarter still being low grade, but the set will jump considerably when that one coin is upgraded. And the set is still ranked second because it is complete.
If I read your original question correctly, “what is his lowest ranked registry set?” I will provide three answers.
First, to be the absolute lowest rank, then it has to be a popular set. The absolute lowest rank is #129. This is a set that listed under a pseudonym Diana. This may the name of his daughter. Hansen’s primary set is ranked #4 All-Time Finest, behind Kutz, and two other retired sets. He also has another set that 60%, so I don’t the absolute lowest ranked is what you are looking for.
Diana’s #129
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/indian-2-1-gold-major-sets/indian-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1908-1929/alltimeset/173398
Second, the lowest ranked 90-100% completed is a “second set” of Kennedy Half Proof Dollars. Again, I don’t think this is what you are looking for because his top set is tied for #2 All-Time Finest.
Kennedy's Proofs #69
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/half-dollars/kennedy-half-dollars-major-sets/kennedy-half-dollars-basic-set-proof-1964-present/alltimeset/171937
Third, I think this is the most meaningful one. The lowest rank primary set is #68, Susan B. Anthony Dollars with Major Varieties set. These are mint state coins. This set has only two coins that I would say comes close to Hansen’s standard. The set should be easy to improve due to low graded coins. It is a little odd, that he has only one set listed. I am not sure why he is not actively upgrading this set. Being so many coins need to be replaced, he may be waiting for a nice set to come along. I wish I had a high grade set to offer JB. The lowest coin in the set is the 1999-P SBA$1 MS66 POP 971/457. Even my set has a better specimen.
SBA #68
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/dollars/susan-b-anthony-dollars-major-sets/susan-b-anthony-dollars-major-varieties-circulation-strikes-1979-1981-1999/alltimeset/175105
I can not leave the posting without showing something good. Bruce has mentioned the Bust Dollars before. It not just the dollar set, but all the Early Coinage have coins that are candidates for upgrades. As of today, he has made the best progress with Half Dimes. This set speaks for itself!
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/half-dimes/early-half-dimes-major-sets/flowing-hair-draped-bust-half-dimes-major-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1792-1805/alltimeset/171441
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
I ran across this a couple days ago.
DLRC has added a Hansen page to their website. The page is title Home to the D.L. Hansen Collection. The site features a few of his GEMs, including the 1804 dollar. JB calls these coins; Highlights of the Permanent Hansen Collection. The site also has a “Now Available for Sale” section. I am not sure if the page will grow over time, but I can see the potential. JB makes this reference: offer some of his significant duplicates in our upcoming auctions. Last, the site has links to view several of his sets. Note the bottom ribbon on the header below.
https://www.davidlawrence.com/hansen
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
Some odd items for resale along with some amazing duplicates. One such oddity is a group of 10 1963 Franklin 50c, all MS65. An early foray by Mr. Hansen?
At the moment its by far not the greatest collection ever assembled (and the 1804 dollar is no Gem).
Although everyone is free to define their own measure of "greatest", the Hansen set is slightly better than the Eliasberg for the simplest set definition "U.S. COINS COMPLETE BASIC SET, CIRCULATION STRIKES (1792-1964)", in terms of completion % and weighted grade.
The Eliasberg set is compared using many estimated grades, and other things could be recalculated, but it's a fairly neutral metric.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/complete-sets/master-sets/u-s-coins-complete-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1792-1964/3406
Plus @Currin did a breakdown by series, comparing individual coins in this thread, and the conclusion was the same with the Hansen set having the majority of coins with higher grade.
In the "100 Greatest US Coins", Eliasberg still has the lead, as this puts a zero weight on coins below the top 100, so things like the missing 1913 Liberty Nickel and the grade of the 1804 dollar will count more.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/famous-u-s-coins/100-greatest-u-s-coins/1576
While the top 100 are great coins, it is a fairly different type of collection than the "Complete US Set".
Thanks for the links @yosclimber. Information on the 2 sets you mentioned is below. Of note, Eliasberg is not listed in the following set:
U.S. COINS COMPLETE SET WITH MAJOR VARIETIES, CIRCULATION STRIKES AND PROOF (1792-PRESENT)
Both Eliasberg and Hansen are listed in the following:
U.S. COINS COMPLETE BASIC SET, CIRCULATION STRIKES (1792-1964)
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/complete-sets/master-sets/u-s-coins-complete-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1792-1964/3406
100 GREATEST U.S. COINS
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/famous-u-s-coins/100-greatest-u-s-coins/1576
This is worth noting. I like how Dell Loy started with a Dansco. It would be useful to have some clarification on the scope he's working on as it does say he's working on "duplicating and extending the historic Eliasberg Collection, the most complete collection of U.S. Coins of all-time." The question is what's determined as a "U.S. Coin" here. Does it include all things in the Eliasberg set such as Stellas, 1913 Liberty nickel, gold Confederate cent, territorial gold?
IF he completes what appears to be his his quest and has one example of every circulation strike and one example of every proof then in my mind he will absolutely exceed Eliasberg
Right now, it’s a bit premature. He’s missing too many great coins.
You all know my opinion-he has one of the great sets, not the greatest-he has a long way to go.
Let me know when he wants to do patterns. Eliasberg had many......
I tend to agree with Bruce’s logic.
D. L. Hansen is two years and 10 months in what I would call the “big show”. From day one, he has come into this league and excelled. If we are comparing to NFL, he would have won the Rookie of the Year, and been a starter in the Pro Bowl his first year. In year two, PCGS placed Hansen in the Hall of Fame for Complete US Coins. For year three, we will know in about 30 days.
If my count is correct, only 16 collectors have received the honor of PCGS Hall of Fame for Complete US Coins . First Collector/Family being Lorin G. Parmelee (Retired about 1890). I would contribute the last to be Louis Eliasberg, Sr. or John J. Pittman. I think Eliasberg’s collection was completely sold by 1997, and Pittman by 1999, so officially maybe we should call Pittman the last HOF Complete US Coin Collector. If you look at these 15 collectors prior to Hansen, at least someone was in the game from the mid-1800’s to the end of the 20th century. Many of them overlapped. The sales of Eliasberg and Pittman ended approx. a century and half era.
Our present century is only Specialist Collectors, Series, Sets, Top Coin boxes and others that just collect in limited fashion. I think everyone should agree (but I know everyone will not) that Hansen is in a league of his own. Back to why I tend to agree with Bruce, but maybe for a different reason.
If Hansen was to stop with just three years in the game, I believe it would be similar to a great NFL player (as described above) that career was cut short after three years due to an injury. I would compare this to Bo Jackson. He was really a great player, marketing king, being called the Greatest of All-Time, but it ended. He is remembered, but typically don’t show up on Greatest of All-Time lists. If he had stayed in the game (NFL & MLB), it is no telling how many all-time records he would have broken.
Now, if Hansen makes this a 10-15 year endeavor (with his first 3 year pace), and completing mint and proof sets with major varieties. Also, I see him actively working on minor varieties, die states, etc. If he keep his key duplicates and build multiple sets as he have today, then if not already, I think for certain The Collection will be remembered forever more as the Greatest Collection of US Coins.
You may ask why I say I “tend to agree” with Bruce, and not that I “do agree completely”. I have stated before, Eliasberg is known to have the Greatest Collection of US Coins. I don’t recall anyone taking that title from him in the last 40-50 years. If someone did, step up and show us coin by coin, as I have done over the last year with comparing Hansen and Eliasberg. I certainly disagree with the statement that Hansen is far from having the greatest collection (or exact words “by far”). Overall the Hansen set is better than the Eliasberg Greatest Collection. So, I think Hansen and JB are making a valid point when they say what they do. But also, I understand the points and statements made by Bruce and Laura . Time will tell…
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
I agree in the sense that the main comparison has to be on completion of the date/mint mark set,
though still conditional on some comparable metric of "overall" quality.
That quest continues, and I agree it is better to wait and look at grades after the collection is complete.
(Looks like he is doing fine on grades so far, although there is still the question of how to best weight grades when comparing the sets).
I had thought it might be OK to compare the listed "completion %" from the registry index page.
We already know this has some issues because some coins are left out of this particular registry set because they are "proof only" or because they are some kind of variety that is also extremely rare, like the 1873-CC No Arrows Dime. Or even just an extremely rare coin that makes set completion difficult, like the 1870-S Half Dime. So @Currin has adjusted for this by constructing his own set list, and we know @tradedollarnut agrees (at least with most of the items) and thinks PCGS is missing out on not making this a registry list.
But I realized there is an additional problem with using the current listed "completion %".
It should really have a 100% completion, but the page says 99.61% .
If I sort it by grade, the following show up as not in the Eliasberg (Circulation Strike) set:
1841 10C
1870 10C
1825/4/2 25C
1878 7/8TF $1
1796/5 $5
1818 $5
1825 $5
1828 $5
1829 $5 Large Size
1831 $5
1839 $10 Type of 1840
[EDITED: Eliasberg had 10/11 of these coins. The 11th (1878 7/8TF $1) should not really be in this list.
All but one of these appear to be database entry/matching errors in the Eliasberg Registry Set.
See the posts below.]
So I apologize for trying to use the completion % from that page.
The set composition is still a little tricky.
For example, the 1870-S Half Dime was not known when Eliasberg was collecting.
And the 1933 Double Eagle - Eliasberg bought one in 1944, but gave it up in 1952 when requested.
Now they are illegal to own except for that one coin involved in a lawsuit.
So probably neither of these should count in the comparison.
One more thing - Eliasberg did not have a complete proof set, so it is not necessary for Hansen to have a complete proof set before making a comparison. I think the comparison should be on the basis of Eliasberg's collection style - either a circulation strike or proof strike for each date/ mint mark. It will still be tricky if comparing a proof to circulation grade, so the comparison will be simpler if Hansen has a similar completion of proofs as Eliasberg.
I looked at this list several months ago. If I recall, I was able to confirmed that Eliasberg had all of them except two. I remember one being the 1878 7/8TF. I don't remember the other one. I have it in my notes somewhere. I offered to help PCGS fix the set. I was willing to lookup and provide the special PCGS numbers that are designated for Eliasberg coins. They never responded, so I assumed they had no interest to fix.
1841 10C
1870 10C
1825/4/2 25C
1878 7/8TF $1
1796/5 $5
1818 $5
1825 $5
1828 $5
1829 $5 Large Size
1831 $5
1839 $10 Type of 1840
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
Do you mean that you checked and Eliasberg had circulation strikes of these coins?
If so, they could be database entry errors, which is what I originally wrote in my post until I edited,
figuring that he had proofs for these years.
The following are "Redbook" die varieties and in my view should not be on the "Basic" set list:
Yes, there is a multitude of Eliasberg coins missing from both sets. He had them, PCGS just doesn’t show them
“Yes, there is a multitude of Eliasberg coins missing from both sets. He had them, PCGS just doesn’t show them”
Don’t forget the United States Philippine Coins for which Eliasberg had a fabulous collection!
Wondercoin
And Eliasberg had LOTS of patterns!
It was nowhere near a complete set so was it just a random smattering or were there certain areas he focused on?
Is there a Registry Set or other list of Eliasberg’s US Philippine coins?
Zions. There must be somewhere.
His USPI collection was pedigreed by PCGS, just as his patterns were. I had in my hands just yesterday the key date (1905) 50 Centavos Proof in top PR67 grade pedigreed to Eliasberg on the insert.
Wondercoin
I don’t recall if they were proof or circulated strikes. I think most were CS. In Eliasberg sets, his proofs are listed in his Circulated Strikes sets. It appears PCGS gave special privilege for this in his sets only. His proofs are given corresponding MS grades that counts for percentage completed and weighted average. For example, if Eliasberg’s specimen is a choice proof, then the coin is graded MS63. See examples below.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
Thanks for explaining.
PCGS has the Eliasberg sales by lot number in their database, so I looked them all up like you did:
1828/7 $5 MS-61 https://www.pcgs.com/auctionprices/item/1828-5/8137/-2843264094236647680/1
Now MS-63 https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1828-7-5/8138
1829 $5 Large Size MS-66 https://www.pcgs.com/auctionprices/item/1829-5-large-size/8139/425846871747852259/1
This 1829 $5 is the finest known - an MS-66+ now; it sold in the 2016 Pogue sale for $764k .
Another finest known; sold in the 2016 Pogue sale for $646k .
It seems like they are mostly due to database mismatches on the CoinNum ID, when there is more than one CoinNum for the date. Although there should be a hierarchy where the database knows all the CoinNums for the date.
It would be great to get these glitches fixed, as the Registry Set could be an even better tool for looking at Hansen's quest on the Eliasberg Challenge.
@BrettPCGS, could you advise on who maintains the Eliasberg Registry Set lists?
Great Info. With this research, did you prove Eliasberg had all of them? If so, it would be great if we could have PCGS update the set.
He had a 7TF and and 8TF, both in proof; I believe the 7/8TF is a variety that should not be used in this comparison
Really don't matter much. Hansen has both, so its really just a wash.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
It looks like someone found a quarter upgrade.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/mycoinfacts/1959-25c/2620814/164702
Nice. I wonder if it’s worth Justin's time to get PCGS to create an All-Time USPI Eliasberg Set? He does have a business in USPI coins.
I can't find an Eliasberg set in any of the following All-Time Finest (All Eras) USPI sets. I wonder where an Eliasberg set would rank.
Several of Eliasberg's US Philippines coins were sold in Heritage Auction #425, January 2007, all PCGS graded:
Maybe he never had the 1904 proof set?
This has good coverage in the higher denomination proofs, but is missing most of the lower denominations.
I found a few others on the web, and I checked all adjacent Cert numbers.
Here is the overall list of what I found:
denom date mm grade PCGS Cert number
0.5 1903 PR-65 RB 15114144
0.5 1905 PR-64 RD 10949637
1 1905 PR-64 RB 15114145
5 1918 S AU-55 10949686 Allen-4.08b Mule
10 1903 PR-65 15114147
10 1904 PR-66 15114148
10 1905 MS-65 15114146
10 1905 PR-66 15114149
10 1905 PR-65 15114150
20 1903 PR-66 10949746
20 1905 PR-66 10949730
20 1906 PR-67 10949729
20 1907 S MS-63 10949728
20 1915 S MS-65 10949685
50 1903 PR-65 10949638
50 1905 PR-66 10949731
50 1907 S MS-66 10949727
100 1903 PR-65 10949639
100 1904 PR-65 10949640
100 1905 PR-66 10949733
100 1906 PR-65 10949732
100 1910 S MS-66 10949726
100 1912 S MS-65 10949784
Yosclimber... thank you for that.
And simply put, Eliasberg had a wonderful United States pattern collection as far as I know (I own at least one of his former coins) as well as a wonderful United States Philippine collection - the only bi-National Coins our US mints ever struck. I always thought it would have been a good idea to set up a “Complete” Eliasberg Registry set, including these US coin series. Why exclude them, if Eliasberg seriously collected them?
As always, just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
We've addressed this several times, but happy to again.
We bought the 1804 as it was a fantastic value at the time. The 1913 Nickel is still a fantasy item and we were interested if it came in a price range that we thought it was worth, but overall this isn't a coin that Dell Loy feels like is the cornerstone of the set. He understands that total completion isn't possible, but we'll complete as much as we can with the highest quality possible...
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
The set of Newcombe Variety Large Cents is probably the lowest graded overall on average.
The Proof Indian Cent Collection wasn't very impressive a few months ago grade-wise, but the eye appeal was amazing.
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
Well, no matter the origins, it’s not a regular issue.
Thanks for the repost @JBatDavidLawrence. I must have missed it in the commotion the first time around.