@oldabeintx said:
I really look forward to reading this thread each day, but I have to admit I'm both lost and lazy. Mr. Hansen has been interviewed and he is represented. Has he publicly disclosed his goals? Are they evolving? If we're going to watch this like a sporting event, we need to know the score.
In addition to his interviews, he has a website with link below and John Brush, his dealer, has commented on his approach here.
If you announce you are competing with Eliasberg then you have to do what Eliasberg did - own every American coin
Bruce, I did tend to agree with your statement. Although, from the sideline where I sit, if every American coin is the only measurement, then it appear Hansen is being force to play a losing hand. Coins that he “must” have are also the same coins that has been stated a number of times on this thread as, “no way”, “never”, “not for sale”, etc. Then just about every nice coin that he does purchase, it is made to appear the reason he was able to buy the coin is because the inner circle states the coin was passed, did not like, etc.
With that said, I think in just three years, he is making great progress, putting together a world-class collection, setting registry records that will stand the test of time, and will one day achieve the realistic goals that he is seeking for his great collection. All you can ask is to play the best hand that you can with the cards you are holding. And if the deck is stacked against you, other than quitting, really what can you do? Hansen is not Randolph Scott.
Currin - absolutely, positively his collection is world class. He probably made a mistake announcing that he was going to beat Eliasberg and already proclaiming his set as the best ever. IF he didn’t want to own certain coins then he never should have mentioned Eliasberg- just say his GOAL was to have the greatest ever collection...and we’d be talking about other issues (depth, breadth, etc...but not completeness). But he did...and we are.
@wondercoin said:
Eliasberg was also missing the Unique 1907 USPI Proof Peso to name another one.
According to Ron Guth on CoinFacts, there are 2 "1907 USPI Proof Peso" coins known, struck on different planchets, so 2 unique varieties, but still 2 in aggregate for "1907 USPI Proof Peso".
The first is of the KM-168 variety, made on a planchet of the same diameter and fineness used from 1903 to 1906. This unique example is believed to reside in a museum in the Philippines.
The second is of the KM-172 variety (illustrated above), made on a planchet of the same diameter and fineness used from 1907 to 1912. This unique example last appeared on the market in 2012 in the sale of the Dr. Greg Pineda Collection of Phillipines Coins and Paper Money. Currently, it resides in a PCGS PR65 holder.
Here's the Dr. Greg Pineda / Lyn Knight specimen which is struck on the reduced size 80% silver peso planchet. The other specimen is struck on the larger, original size 90% silver peso planchet.
Zoins.... I believe there are (2) Unique coins. One struck in 90% silver and owned by the Philippine government currently in their museum and the other struck in 80% silver currently in the United States in private hands. I do not believe Eliasberg was the owner of either of these (2) Unique bi-national United States Philippine Proof Pesos.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
@wondercoin said:
Zoins.... I believe there are (2) Unique coins. One struck in 90% silver and owned by the Philippine government currently in their museum and the other struck in 80% silver currently in the United States in private hands. I do not believe Eliasberg was the owner of either of these (2) Unique bi-national United States Philippine Proof Pesos.
Yes, it seems there are 2 different ones.
Since there are two different ones saying just "Unique 1907 USPI Proof Peso" is a bit confusing because it's impossible to tell which of the 2 "Unique 1907 USPI Proof Peso" coins is being discussed. It would be more clear to say something like "Unique KM-172 1907 USPI Proof Peso" or "Unique small planchet 1907 USPI Proof Peso".
In any event, thanks for bringing it up. Good to keep USPI coins in the conversation!
You are correct, he had what he had... and he did not have what he did not have, every American coin.
Well, if we want to be pedantic about "every American coin", he would have needed every coin struck, like all 5 1913 Liberty nickels, all 10 of the estimated 1858 proof Eagles, and all 2,521 of the 1858 unc Eagles
WOW, this thread really takes some crazy twists and turns sometimes! I'm gonna guess that DLH has some fairly tough skin and probably isn't as concerned about what's said in this thread as some here seem to believe.
@edwardjulio said: @tradedollarnut said:
If you announce you are competing with Eliasberg then you have to do what Eliasberg did -own every American coin
Eliasberg’s patterns are not in the registry. The reference that I use is this electronic archived catalog. He had just a little over 200 pattern lots listed for sale.
We definitely need more talk on Hansen's patterns!
Here are some stand outs.
The PCGS CoinFacts Condition Census mentions both of these coins but is missing the photo in both cases. It would be good for PCGS to add the photos for easier matching.
1792 Silver Center Cent - Judd-1; PCGS SP65BN pop 1/1; Norweb Specimen
There is only 1 SP65BN in the CoinFacts Condition Census but it does not have a photo to match. However, photo matching using Heritage archives shows this was sold by Oliver Jung in 2014 when it was graded PCGS MS64BN.
I'm impressed by the "University of Pennsylvania Collection" pedigree. The top pop SP67BN is from the "Johns Hopkins University Collection". The university pedigrees are nice given the "Science & Industry" slogan.
From Heritage:
The Silver Center cent is one of the most significant and historically important coins ever struck at the Philadelphia Mint. It was the first coin actually produced inside the walls of the First United States Mint, as earlier patterns, like the 1792 half dismes, were actually struck in makeshift facilities before the Mint buildings were ready for operations.
From CoinFacts:
2
SP65BN PCGS grade
Col. Robert C.H. Brock Collection - University of Pennsylvania Collection - Philip H. Ward Collection - Charles Dochkus Collection - Harry Forman - New Netherlands, sold privately on 3/14/1958 - Norweb Collection - Bowers & Merena 11/1988:3392, $143,000 - Stack's 1/2002:724, $414,000 - Ed Milas - Marvin Browder Collection, sold privately in 2011 for a reported $2.5 million - Stuart Levine, Joe O’Connor, and Anthony Terranova, sold privately in 2011 - Oliver Jung Collection - Heritage 8/2014:5517, $1,997,500
Update: CoinFacts doesn't have a photo of this and the latest Heritage auction (2017) linked from Cert Verification doesn't mention the pedigree, however, matching the TrueView with Heritage auction photos indicates this is the Chalkley-Ryer specimen that was sold by Superior in January 1990 and then by Heritage in 2014.
From Heritage:
Ownership of a 1792 half disme in any grade is among the top accomplishments that any advanced collector of numismatic Americana can hope to achieve. It is not a stretch to say that the 1792 half disme is probably the single most important American coin issue, if not the most famed or celebrated. Fame and celebrity are reserved for 1933 double eagles, 1913 Liberty nickels, 1894-S dimes, 1804 dollars, and the like. Nonetheless, these doughty little silver pieces possess immense historical importance.
From CoinFacts:
5
MS65 PCGS grade
MARCA 5/1987:721 - Superior “Chalkley-Ryer” 1/1990:2354 - Heritage 1/2014:5176, $528,750
This is going to be a long race. Hansen can switch gears. Hansen could change his mind at any time on how he wants this to play out. He certainly has a lot of cards and lots of dough
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Those are some amazing 1792 patterns. The silver center cent is honestly real American treasure. I'm a huge fan of 1792 patterns with their more primitive, early Americana look as my fellow collectors know.
Looks like a nice example of the 1894-S dime will be available from Stacks Bowers at the August ANA. That specimen might allow the esteemed Dell Loy to move up from 7 out of 10 of the most famous US coins to 8 out of 10 in the PCGS set. Good luck to John and Dell Loy.
Yeah, The pictures in the email from Stacks show it to be a Purdy Dime!
@GoBust said:
Those are some amazing 1792 patterns. The silver center cent is honestly real American treasure. I'm a huge fan of 1792 patterns with their more primitive, early Americana look as my fellow collectors know.
Looks like a nice example of the 1894-S dime will be available from Stacks Bowers at the August ANA. That specimen might allow the esteemed Dell Loy to move up from 7 out of 10 of the most famous US coins to 8 out of 10 in the PCGS set. Good luck to John and Dell Loy.
@specialist said:
Its ok, those are patterns. Even tho Mr Simspon does not care for most early ones, he still has the best J-1 that exists-damn thing looks like it was minted yesterday. And he has what I believe to really be the first $1 struck-the NO STARS 1794.....And some other ho hum coins that are unique!
Since this is a Hansen thread, what do you think of Hansen’s patterns? I think the color on the J-1 looks really nice!
Does Simpson have a J-7? There are just 2 higher than Hansen’s.
And while Simpson may not care about patterns from the early Mint, what do you think of them?
That 94S in 63 is scary. That is the coin that was "stolen" last year. Someone really needs to clarify what happened.
Do we know who owns it now? Why is “stolen” in quotes? What happened to it?
Since starting this thread, I really have not kept up with the count of the coins that have been shown from The Great Collection. I would guess somewhere around 150 coins, give or take a few. This is not a large amount when you consider Hansen have added or upgraded two to three thousand. Typically if the coins are PCGS POP 1/0, or have a rich history, or maybe an interesting story to tell, they catch my attention. Then sometimes with a coin like this one, it just screams: POST ME! LOOK AT ME! This is one of those times, but not only did it shout out to me, the coin is also a PCGS Pop 1/0 and has an interesting story to tell as well.
1953-S Washington Quarter MS68
This coin appeared in the Legend Regency 31 Auction where it was disguised in a PCGS MS67+ CAC holder. The price guide for PCGS certified MS67+ was around $850. Legend saw something special in this coin and estimated the range to be $1,000 - $1,200. The coin was described as: Not only is the SUPERB example among the FINEST graded for the date at PCGS (none have graded higher), it is also a MONSTER toner! Totally original and beautifully toned from storage in the same old mint set holder. As the other 53-S coins in this sale. Brilliant luster beams through the rich orange, crimson, royal purple, and subtle emerald-teal green hues. The eye appeal is off the charts bold! The surfaces are immaculate and pristine. Here is another coin that the APRs and price guide values cannot capture the eye appeal. This coin will sell for a record price when the gavel finally falls on it. This is an opportunity of the utmost importance for the advanced Washington quarter set collector that should not be overlooked! I think the prediction came true. Of the 5 PCGS MS67+ coins sold at auction in the past 12 months, four of them ranged from $630 to $780. This specimen sold for a PCGS MS67+ auction record of $1,527.50. The coin realized almost twice the PCGS guide value.
David Hall provided some expert comments of the 1953-S Washington. He wrote: Though the lowest mintage, the 1953-S is by far the easiest of the 1953 Washingtons to find in Gem condition. Basically, for the S mints of this era, because of their lower mintages, were saved in more significant quantities than the higher mintage Philadelphia and Denver coins, collectors/dealers of the era assuming the lower mintage coins would be rarer and more desireable in the future. But as it turns out, survival rates and Population Reports are now much more important in determining price, as they should be. The the real rarities are the coins that weren't saved, and the 1953 and 1953-D fit that description, while the 1953-S does not. Note that there a number of spectacularly toned ultra Gems of this date.
Today, the coin is unique in a PCGS MS68 holder with a CAC sticker. There is at least one MS68 in a NGC holder, and I am not sure of the comparison. This PCGS grade is so new; it has not been priced in the PCGS guide. I am not sure how you would price the coin anyway. Would you price the coin using the 3/21/2019 Legend results? Or does the PCGS certification increases the value? It is the same coin from three month ago right?
I found a listing for the sale of this coin in a PCGS MS68 holder on Pinnacle Rarities website. The coin is listed as sold. The website description is simple and to the point: Most Condition Census Washington quarters from the fifties are dramatically toned, and the present Superb Gem is no exception. Vivid blushes of cherry-red, sunset orange, and electric blue alternate across lustrous and unmarked surfaces. This is the single finest graded example at PCGS. CAC certified. The coin advertised price was $22,500. Is that possible? A coin increased in value in 3 months from $1,527.50 to $22,500. We do not know what the coin actually sold for, but anywhere close to the advertised price would be an amazing increase in just a short period of time.
I will close by saying, this coin appear to me to be a top of the line specimen for the 1953-S Washington. It really is a SUPERB example with MONSTER toning as describe by someone from Legend Auctions.
In comparison, Eliasberg registry set describes his 1953-S Quarter Dollar Specimen as estimated grade MS64. The coin was sold by Bowers & Merena April '97 as part of a large lot #1659.
1953-S Washington Quarter MS68 CAC Certification #37675586, PCGS #5854 PCGS POP 1/0 / PCGS Coin Guide Value: unknown
.
. Question: Do you still want to see the comparison to Eliasberg? With common coins, I think we are at a point that just about all Hansen’s upgrades will be better than Eliasberg.
@GoBust said:
Looks like a nice example of the 1894-S dime will be available from Stacks Bowers at the August ANA. That specimen might allow the esteemed Dell Loy to move up from 7 out of 10 of the most famous US coins to 8 out of 10 in the PCGS set. Good luck to John and Dell Loy.
This is the 1894-S that Mr. Link mentioned. The coin would fit well in the US Most Famous set, but I am not sure of any other sets that it would be needed for. The coin is on my countdown list. It will be interesting to see if Hansen goes for it. If he has to reach, I will not be surprise if he don’t drop out early in the bidding.
This coin would also look good in Mr. Link’s 100 set as well.
Hansen vs. Forsythe Legend Regency Auction 33" 1938-S Mercury Dime 68+ FB hammered for over $300,000 plus juice (PCGS $$ for 68 is only about $5000). The winner will have the #1 Mercury Dime set. Who won???? Lots of $$ for bragging rights.
@OldIndianNutKase said:
Hansen vs. Forsythe Legend Regency Auction 33" 1938-S Mercury Dime 68+ FB hammered for over $300,000 plus juice (PCGS $$ for 68 is only about $5000). The winner will have the #1 Mercury Dime set. Who won???? Lots of $$ for bragging rights.
Some of the estimates made by the legend experts blows me away. They estimated this coin as Estimate: 10,000.00 - 12,500.00.
@OldIndianNutKase said:
Hansen vs. Forsythe Legend Regency Auction 33" 1938-S Mercury Dime 68+ FB hammered for over $300,000 plus juice (PCGS $$ for 68 is only about $5000). The winner will have the #1 Mercury Dime set. Who won???? Lots of $$ for bragging rights.
Some of the estimates made by the legend experts blows me away. They estimated this coin as Estimate: 10,000.00 - 12,500.00.
With MS68 at $5k, $10k for MS68+ may have seemed reasonable. $300k is a sign of the strong economy we have.
@specialist said:
please. we made estimates based on what the coins should be worth.
there were 3-3 zillionares bidding on those coins.
NO ONE can estimate that.
Boys will be boys
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Not sure if Hansen feels the need to "duplicate and extend" the Eliasberg set in the area of medals, but Eliasberg had a great set of 15 Lincoln gold medals and case.
Amazingly, this set was offered twice as 16 separate lots and in both cases, 1 collector won every single lot. The 3rd time Stack's sold the set, it was sold together as a single lot.
Of note, when the lots were sold separately in 2010, the lots brought an aggregate of $125,177.50, but when the lots were sold together in 2016, they only brought $64,625.00.
@Zoins said:
Not sure if Hansen feels the need to "duplicate and extend" the Eliasberg set in the area of medals, but Eliasberg had a great set of 15 Lincoln gold medals and case.
Now that DLH has the greatest US Coin Collection ever, and is now extending his magnificent US Pattern collection, I am sure a world class US Medal collection is forthcoming.
@Zoins said:
Not sure if Hansen feels the need to "duplicate and extend" the Eliasberg set in the area of medals, but Eliasberg had a great set of 15 Lincoln gold medals and case.
Now that DLH has the greatest US Coin Collection ever, and is now extending his magnificent US Pattern collection, I am sure a world class US Medal collection is forthcoming.
@washingtonrainbows said:
Prices in Washington quarters were high as well. The 49-d ms 68 set a record for example as well as the 52-d 67+. Unfortunately l was under bidder on both. The 49-d went for 37k pre juice and 52-d 18k. Hansen already listed both in his sets.
Congratulation on the World Class set you have put together. These two Hansen coins would have looked nice in the set, but it is all ready impressive. Great success in a very competitive series.
We offered $15 million on behalf of Mr Simspon for j-1776. The guy laughed at us. Its in a trust for the current owners grand kids. No one will get it for a very long time.
Mr Simpson still wins-he owns the amazonians in all metals (the gold set is easily worth $12-$15 million)!!!!! Pick a non unique gold pattern (most have 2 minted), he owns them all! He turned down $5 million for the monster $10 1804 gold he has. If that does not make him all time #1, he owns things like a copper school girl PR68 RD!!!!!! Good luck to anyone else. Go for it Delloy.
BTW, a few of Black Cats pattern will be on display at the ANA SHow-in the ANA museum section.
It’s interesting Simpson doesn’t seem to have a 1792 Half Disme which makes the comparison a bit less interesting given the significance of the coin and that Hansen does have one.
While Simpson has a very impressive pattern collection and Hansen has few patterns right now, it’s interesting that a number of Hansen’s are not currently present in the Simpson set: J-7, J-862, J-869, J-914, J-952, J-972, J-977, J-987, and J-988. The J-7 Half Disme being the most significant omission. I wonder if Simpson will try for a more complete pattern set?
For Hansen’s quest, I think coins like the 1792 Half Disme, 1792 Silver Center Cent, and the Coiled and Flowing Hair Stellas are important. These are all in his collection now.
I will add to my poll post. I would choose Hanson. Why, you ask? Because it is a diversified collection spread across the board and is most likely to hold it's value overall or improve it's value than the other specialist collections. I know the big dogs will rip me apart for this but that's my belief!
@amwldcoin said:
I will add to my poll post. I would choose Hanson. Why, you ask? Because it is a diversified collection spread across the board and is most likely to hold it's value overall or improve it's value than the other specialist collections. I know the big dogs will rip me apart for this but that's my belief!
@amwldcoin said:
I will add to my poll post. I would choose Hanson. Why, you ask? Because it is a diversified collection spread across the board and is most likely to hold it's value overall or improve it's value than the other specialist collections. I know the big dogs will rip me apart for this but that's my belief!
Have you studied Eliasberg? Own the catalogs?
Yes. I have. The bulk of Eliasberg’s collection is not impressive. The Top 100 and Top 10 are very impressive. I would agree, Hansen has some work to do to reach the level of Eliasberg for the top coins. If you compare series, Eliasberg is not as impressive as Hansen. The Mercury series that is being discussed is a prime example. If I could to choose, I would choose Eliasberg Top 100 coins and the remaining 10,000 coins would be from Hansen’s collection. As you have said before, that could change over time.
Comments
The Clash of Egos.
Smitten with DBLCs.
In addition to his interviews, he has a website with link below and John Brush, his dealer, has commented on his approach here.
https://www.davidlawrence.com/hansen
Bruce, I did tend to agree with your statement. Although, from the sideline where I sit, if every American coin is the only measurement, then it appear Hansen is being force to play a losing hand. Coins that he “must” have are also the same coins that has been stated a number of times on this thread as, “no way”, “never”, “not for sale”, etc. Then just about every nice coin that he does purchase, it is made to appear the reason he was able to buy the coin is because the inner circle states the coin was passed, did not like, etc.
With that said, I think in just three years, he is making great progress, putting together a world-class collection, setting registry records that will stand the test of time, and will one day achieve the realistic goals that he is seeking for his great collection. All you can ask is to play the best hand that you can with the cards you are holding. And if the deck is stacked against you, other than quitting, really what can you do? Hansen is not Randolph Scott.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
Eliasberg did not own every American coin.
End Systemic Elitism - It Takes All Of Us
Currin - absolutely, positively his collection is world class. He probably made a mistake announcing that he was going to beat Eliasberg and already proclaiming his set as the best ever. IF he didn’t want to own certain coins then he never should have mentioned Eliasberg- just say his GOAL was to have the greatest ever collection...and we’d be talking about other issues (depth, breadth, etc...but not completeness). But he did...and we are.
Whatever
What was he missing besides this one?
A great thing about Eliasberg is that he had a broad range of American coins including colonials, territorials and Confederates.
Eliasberg was also missing the Unique 1907 USPI Proof Peso to name another one.
Wondercoin
Whatever...….
In Proof:
1858 Eagle
1860 Eagle
1866 Eagle
1873 Eagle
1874 Eagle
1877 Eagle
1879 Eagle
1880 Eagle
and other American coins.
End Systemic Elitism - It Takes All Of Us
According to Ron Guth on CoinFacts, there are 2 "1907 USPI Proof Peso" coins known, struck on different planchets, so 2 unique varieties, but still 2 in aggregate for "1907 USPI Proof Peso".
Here's the Dr. Greg Pineda / Lyn Knight specimen which is struck on the reduced size 80% silver peso planchet. The other specimen is struck on the larger, original size 90% silver peso planchet.
Eliasberg wa> @edwardjulio said:
He had what he had...a set of coins undifferentiated for ms and proof. A proof 1866 something is still an 1866 something
Zoins.... I believe there are (2) Unique coins. One struck in 90% silver and owned by the Philippine government currently in their museum and the other struck in 80% silver currently in the United States in private hands. I do not believe Eliasberg was the owner of either of these (2) Unique bi-national United States Philippine Proof Pesos.
Wondercoin
@tradedollarnut
You are correct, he had what he had... and he did not have what he did not have, every American coin.
End Systemic Elitism - It Takes All Of Us
Yes, it seems there are 2 different ones.
Since there are two different ones saying just "Unique 1907 USPI Proof Peso" is a bit confusing because it's impossible to tell which of the 2 "Unique 1907 USPI Proof Peso" coins is being discussed. It would be more clear to say something like "Unique KM-172 1907 USPI Proof Peso" or "Unique small planchet 1907 USPI Proof Peso".
In any event, thanks for bringing it up. Good to keep USPI coins in the conversation!
Well, if we want to be pedantic about "every American coin", he would have needed every coin struck, like all 5 1913 Liberty nickels, all 10 of the estimated 1858 proof Eagles, and all 2,521 of the 1858 unc Eagles
Who could?
WOW, this thread really takes some crazy twists and turns sometimes! I'm gonna guess that DLH has some fairly tough skin and probably isn't as concerned about what's said in this thread as some here seem to believe.
@tradedollarnut said:
If you announce you are competing with Eliasberg then you have to do what Eliasberg did -own every American coin
End Systemic Elitism - It Takes All Of Us
Ok, you got me.
Yes, I do use the registry for Hansen. This is the set that I reference for his patterns.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-patterns/complete-sets/complete-patterns-die-trials-experimental-pieces/alltimeset/167133
Eliasberg’s patterns are not in the registry. The reference that I use is this electronic archived catalog. He had just a little over 200 pattern lots listed for sale.
https://archive.org/details/louiseeliasbergs1996bowe
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
We definitely need more talk on Hansen's patterns!
Here are some stand outs.
The PCGS CoinFacts Condition Census mentions both of these coins but is missing the photo in both cases. It would be good for PCGS to add the photos for easier matching.
1792 Silver Center Cent - Judd-1; PCGS SP65BN pop 1/1; Norweb Specimen
There is only 1 SP65BN in the CoinFacts Condition Census but it does not have a photo to match. However, photo matching using Heritage archives shows this was sold by Oliver Jung in 2014 when it was graded PCGS MS64BN.
I'm impressed by the "University of Pennsylvania Collection" pedigree. The top pop SP67BN is from the "Johns Hopkins University Collection". The university pedigrees are nice given the "Science & Industry" slogan.
From Heritage:
From CoinFacts:
1792 Half Disme - Judd-7; PCGS MS66 pop 3/2; Chalkley-Ryer Specimen
Update: CoinFacts doesn't have a photo of this and the latest Heritage auction (2017) linked from Cert Verification doesn't mention the pedigree, however, matching the TrueView with Heritage auction photos indicates this is the Chalkley-Ryer specimen that was sold by Superior in January 1990 and then by Heritage in 2014.
From Heritage:
From CoinFacts:
Here's the 2014 Heritage photos to match:
This is going to be a long race. Hansen can switch gears. Hansen could change his mind at any time on how he wants this to play out. He certainly has a lot of cards and lots of dough
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Found Hansen's 1792 Half Disme. It's the Chalkley-Ryer specimen sold by Superior in January, 1990. Added the info to the post above.
Those are some amazing 1792 patterns. The silver center cent is honestly real American treasure. I'm a huge fan of 1792 patterns with their more primitive, early Americana look as my fellow collectors know.
Looks like a nice example of the 1894-S dime will be available from Stacks Bowers at the August ANA. That specimen might allow the esteemed Dell Loy to move up from 7 out of 10 of the most famous US coins to 8 out of 10 in the PCGS set. Good luck to John and Dell Loy.
Yeah, The pictures in the email from Stacks show it to be a Purdy Dime!
Since this is a Hansen thread, what do you think of Hansen’s patterns? I think the color on the J-1 looks really nice!
Does Simpson have a J-7? There are just 2 higher than Hansen’s.
And while Simpson may not care about patterns from the early Mint, what do you think of them?
Do we know who owns it now? Why is “stolen” in quotes? What happened to it?
The Newcomer 94-s was stolen in Colorado, but that one was an NGC 63. The Stacks sale is the PCGS 63 which is the one Jerry Buss owned...
Washington Quarter Upgrade
Since starting this thread, I really have not kept up with the count of the coins that have been shown from The Great Collection. I would guess somewhere around 150 coins, give or take a few. This is not a large amount when you consider Hansen have added or upgraded two to three thousand. Typically if the coins are PCGS POP 1/0, or have a rich history, or maybe an interesting story to tell, they catch my attention. Then sometimes with a coin like this one, it just screams: POST ME! LOOK AT ME! This is one of those times, but not only did it shout out to me, the coin is also a PCGS Pop 1/0 and has an interesting story to tell as well.
1953-S Washington Quarter MS68
This coin appeared in the Legend Regency 31 Auction where it was disguised in a PCGS MS67+ CAC holder. The price guide for PCGS certified MS67+ was around $850. Legend saw something special in this coin and estimated the range to be $1,000 - $1,200. The coin was described as: Not only is the SUPERB example among the FINEST graded for the date at PCGS (none have graded higher), it is also a MONSTER toner! Totally original and beautifully toned from storage in the same old mint set holder. As the other 53-S coins in this sale. Brilliant luster beams through the rich orange, crimson, royal purple, and subtle emerald-teal green hues. The eye appeal is off the charts bold! The surfaces are immaculate and pristine. Here is another coin that the APRs and price guide values cannot capture the eye appeal. This coin will sell for a record price when the gavel finally falls on it. This is an opportunity of the utmost importance for the advanced Washington quarter set collector that should not be overlooked! I think the prediction came true. Of the 5 PCGS MS67+ coins sold at auction in the past 12 months, four of them ranged from $630 to $780. This specimen sold for a PCGS MS67+ auction record of $1,527.50. The coin realized almost twice the PCGS guide value.
David Hall provided some expert comments of the 1953-S Washington. He wrote: Though the lowest mintage, the 1953-S is by far the easiest of the 1953 Washingtons to find in Gem condition. Basically, for the S mints of this era, because of their lower mintages, were saved in more significant quantities than the higher mintage Philadelphia and Denver coins, collectors/dealers of the era assuming the lower mintage coins would be rarer and more desireable in the future. But as it turns out, survival rates and Population Reports are now much more important in determining price, as they should be. The the real rarities are the coins that weren't saved, and the 1953 and 1953-D fit that description, while the 1953-S does not. Note that there a number of spectacularly toned ultra Gems of this date.
Today, the coin is unique in a PCGS MS68 holder with a CAC sticker. There is at least one MS68 in a NGC holder, and I am not sure of the comparison. This PCGS grade is so new; it has not been priced in the PCGS guide. I am not sure how you would price the coin anyway. Would you price the coin using the 3/21/2019 Legend results? Or does the PCGS certification increases the value? It is the same coin from three month ago right?
I found a listing for the sale of this coin in a PCGS MS68 holder on Pinnacle Rarities website. The coin is listed as sold. The website description is simple and to the point: Most Condition Census Washington quarters from the fifties are dramatically toned, and the present Superb Gem is no exception. Vivid blushes of cherry-red, sunset orange, and electric blue alternate across lustrous and unmarked surfaces. This is the single finest graded example at PCGS. CAC certified. The coin advertised price was $22,500. Is that possible? A coin increased in value in 3 months from $1,527.50 to $22,500. We do not know what the coin actually sold for, but anywhere close to the advertised price would be an amazing increase in just a short period of time.
I will close by saying, this coin appear to me to be a top of the line specimen for the 1953-S Washington. It really is a SUPERB example with MONSTER toning as describe by someone from Legend Auctions.
In comparison, Eliasberg registry set describes his 1953-S Quarter Dollar Specimen as estimated grade MS64. The coin was sold by Bowers & Merena April '97 as part of a large lot #1659.
1953-S Washington Quarter MS68 CAC
Certification #37675586, PCGS #5854
PCGS POP 1/0 / PCGS Coin Guide Value: unknown
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Question: Do you still want to see the comparison to Eliasberg? With common coins, I think we are at a point that just about all Hansen’s upgrades will be better than Eliasberg.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
This is the 1894-S that Mr. Link mentioned. The coin would fit well in the US Most Famous set, but I am not sure of any other sets that it would be needed for. The coin is on my countdown list. It will be interesting to see if Hansen goes for it. If he has to reach, I will not be surprise if he don’t drop out early in the bidding.
This coin would also look good in Mr. Link’s 100 set as well.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
Hansen vs. Forsythe Legend Regency Auction 33" 1938-S Mercury Dime 68+ FB hammered for over $300,000 plus juice (PCGS $$ for 68 is only about $5000). The winner will have the #1 Mercury Dime set. Who won???? Lots of $$ for bragging rights.
Some of the estimates made by the legend experts blows me away. They estimated this coin as Estimate: 10,000.00 - 12,500.00.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
Smoe sick prices realized. Legend is a color consignor’s dream
With MS68 at $5k, $10k for MS68+ may have seemed reasonable. $300k is a sign of the strong economy we have.
please. we made estimates based on what the coins should be worth.
there were 3-3 zillionares bidding on those coins.
NO ONE can estimate that.
Boys will be boys
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I need to clarify-Forsythe was NOT the under bidder on the 10C. he was in really strong though.
Not sure if Hansen feels the need to "duplicate and extend" the Eliasberg set in the area of medals, but Eliasberg had a great set of 15 Lincoln gold medals and case.
Amazingly, this set was offered twice as 16 separate lots and in both cases, 1 collector won every single lot. The 3rd time Stack's sold the set, it was sold together as a single lot.
Of note, when the lots were sold separately in 2010, the lots brought an aggregate of $125,177.50, but when the lots were sold together in 2016, they only brought $64,625.00.
Now that DLH has the greatest US Coin Collection ever, and is now extending his magnificent US Pattern collection, I am sure a world class US Medal collection is forthcoming.
I Agree !!!! THE Greatest !!
Congratulation on the World Class set you have put together. These two Hansen coins would have looked nice in the set, but it is all ready impressive. Great success in a very competitive series.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
No
We offered $15 million on behalf of Mr Simspon for j-1776. The guy laughed at us. Its in a trust for the current owners grand kids. No one will get it for a very long time.
Mr Simpson still wins-he owns the amazonians in all metals (the gold set is easily worth $12-$15 million)!!!!! Pick a non unique gold pattern (most have 2 minted), he owns them all! He turned down $5 million for the monster $10 1804 gold he has. If that does not make him all time #1, he owns things like a copper school girl PR68 RD!!!!!! Good luck to anyone else. Go for it Delloy.
BTW, a few of Black Cats pattern will be on display at the ANA SHow-in the ANA museum section.
It’s interesting Simpson doesn’t seem to have a 1792 Half Disme which makes the comparison a bit less interesting given the significance of the coin and that Hansen does have one.
While Simpson has a very impressive pattern collection and Hansen has few patterns right now, it’s interesting that a number of Hansen’s are not currently present in the Simpson set: J-7, J-862, J-869, J-914, J-952, J-972, J-977, J-987, and J-988. The J-7 Half Disme being the most significant omission. I wonder if Simpson will try for a more complete pattern set?
For Hansen’s quest, I think coins like the 1792 Half Disme, 1792 Silver Center Cent, and the Coiled and Flowing Hair Stellas are important. These are all in his collection now.
I think this would be a great Poll! If you had a choice....which collection would the forum members here like to own?
1 Hanson
2 Simpson
3 Black Cat
4 Other
5 All of them
Ron Guth, Chief Investigator
The Numismatic Detective Agency
Perhaps a better comparison would be:
1 Eliasberg
2 Hansen
Right now - Eliasberg. In a decade? Probably Hansen - we’ll see...
I will add to my poll post. I would choose Hanson. Why, you ask? Because it is a diversified collection spread across the board and is most likely to hold it's value overall or improve it's value than the other specialist collections. I know the big dogs will rip me apart for this but that's my belief!
Have you studied Eliasberg? Own the catalogs?
@tradedollarnut said:
Yes. I have. The bulk of Eliasberg’s collection is not impressive. The Top 100 and Top 10 are very impressive. I would agree, Hansen has some work to do to reach the level of Eliasberg for the top coins. If you compare series, Eliasberg is not as impressive as Hansen. The Mercury series that is being discussed is a prime example. If I could to choose, I would choose Eliasberg Top 100 coins and the remaining 10,000 coins would be from Hansen’s collection. As you have said before, that could change over time.
Eliasberg Mercury set. All-Time rank #37. (Not impressive)
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/half-dimes/mercury-dimes-major-sets/mercury-dimes-fb-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1916-1945/alltimeset/47120
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004