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Hansen watch.

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  • PerfectionPerfection Posts: 180 ✭✭✭

    Forsythe through Laura, purchased my #1 of all time PR Liberty Nickel set several months ago.
    It was all CAC but one coin. It came with a CAC coin of the one date with a lower grade. There is no chance it could ever be beat. However I think Forsythe has added a few non CAC coins.

    After many years I finally passed Gorman who was number one for around 16 years. I would have passed him two years ago
    but Goldberg took his set and got numerous upgrade and pluses at PCGS. I believe about eleven of his coins were not CAC.
    It is very difficult to build a number one set with ALL CAC coins. Does anyone know of any except for mine?
    The problem is that in many cases no CAC coins exist in some of the higher grades.
    Perhaps one day, PCGS will give a point or half a point for a CAC coin. Most people perceive them to be tightly graded and therefore they truly deserve a high score.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 10, 2019 8:49AM

    @Perfection said:
    Forsythe through Laura, purchased my #1 of all time PR Liberty Nickel set several months ago.

    Good to know. It’s nice your collection is now part of a larger effort.

    It was all CAC but one coin. It came with a CAC coin of the one date with a lower grade. There is no chance it could ever be beat. However I think Forsythe has added a few non CAC coins.

    I wonder what Laura thinks of the non-CAC additions and if she’ll sell any more coins to Forsythe?

  • PerfectionPerfection Posts: 180 ✭✭✭

    I am sure she is against it. I think Mr. Forsythe purchased the 1895 at the last Legend Sale for 74K. I assume he had a bidding war with DLH. To me the price is nuts. The coin was not CAC and therefore probably a very nice 67.
    However it is not included in his set at this time. I assume he has it for insurance in case anyone gets close to his score.
    (impossible) (unless PCGS create 68's where there are none. )

  • CurrinCurrin Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @specialist said:

    Got forbid if he touched my 3CS PR set....i can't look.

    CAUTION: LAURA, PLEASE DON’T LOOK!

    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/two-three-cents/three-cent-silvers-major-varieties-1851-proof-1873/album/164127

    Everyone, this is set that Laura referenced. It is truly a beautiful set of proofs. The Type III portion of the set has been nominated for PCGS Set Registry Award- Favorite Digital Album. Let’s all vote to push her set over the finish line.

    View the set nominated:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/album/157268

    Link to vote:
    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1020770/pcgs-set-registry-awards-vote-for-your-favorite-digital-album#latest

    I am not sure how the nomination is done, but the whole set should have been nominated.

    My 20th Century Type Set, With Type Variations---started : 9/22/1997 ---- completed : 1/7/2004

    My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
  • edwardjulioedwardjulio Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Perfection said:
    It is very difficult to build a number one set with ALL CAC coins. Does anyone know of any except for mine?

    Mountain Home Collection
    1880 Proof Set with Gold-All CAC-Retired
    1891 Proof Set with Gold-All CAC-Retired

    End Systemic Elitism - It Takes All Of Us

  • cupronikcupronik Posts: 773 ✭✭✭

    He added some top pop C-N clad (1965-98) Washington Quarters to his comprehensive collection of United States coinage.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 10, 2019 9:34PM
  • specialistspecialist Posts: 956 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I take the hint. His loss. I have built unquestionably many of todays finest collections. Delloy gets no more from me.

    To me the sets I built for others are all my pride and joys. Yes, I am spoiled "artest"

    Hey look, the guy is driving me batty, BUT he in my small mind ONE OF THE greatest Collectors.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2019 7:21AM

    @specialist said:
    I take the hint. His loss. I have built unquestionably many of todays finest collections. Delloy gets no more from me.

    To me the sets I built for others are all my pride and joys. Yes, I am spoiled "artest"

    Hey look, the guy is driving me batty, BUT he in my small mind ONE OF THE greatest Collectors.

    I wouldn’t read anything into that as there may be no hint. It could be the same as your misspelling of his name.

  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Numismatics: The Enduring Brotherhood. :D

  • PerfectionPerfection Posts: 180 ✭✭✭

    We have been working on a sale for many months. JB. is a very tough negotiator!
    Once a I make a decision to sell something I like to get it done. I lost money on this set but so be it. Would I have realized more selling it in action after the fees and the bp? Who knows!
    This purchase was a must for DLH. When we started talking about it in December the set had around 33 upgrades for DLH. All CAC of course. I think it would be difficult if not impossible for
    DLH to buy a set with this many upgrades. Many of the coins were acquired eight to ten
    years ago.
    Seated halves are great coins. They have been soft for the last few years. For some reason Seated never developed the collector base that Bust enjoys.

    I assume DLH will start a second set now. It would be nice if he kept the top set all CAC and only include the top eye appeal coins. No one will ever come close to beating this set.

    .

  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 13, 2019 2:09PM

    @Perfection said:

    Seated halves are great coins. They have been soft for the last few years. For some reason Seated never developed the collector base that Bust enjoys.

    .

    ...........which to me is odd as they are more relevant to our developmental history than the "early" issues.

    ???

    also.... they weren't stored in quantity as reserve bullion so the available coins are mostly coins used in commerce.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @topstuf said:

    @Perfection said:
    Seated halves are great coins. They have been soft for the last few years. For some reason Seated never developed the collector base that Bust enjoys.

    ...........which to me is odd as they are more relevant to our developmental history than the "early" issues.

    ???

    also.... they weren't stored in quantity as reserve bullion so the available coins are mostly coins used in commerce.

    One thing is that CBHs just look much older than the Seated coins which were steam press struck.

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  • drei3reedrei3ree Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭✭

    @btcollects said:
    I like John Brush's enthusiasm. I think of this as the Brush-Hansen collection.

    I'd be excited too!

  • ReadyFireAimReadyFireAim Posts: 1,825 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The D.L. Hansen Collections is honored to announce the privilege of holding the - Legend Collection - created by Laura >Spierber - This honor to protect the lifetime accomplishment of such an iconic woman is my humble privilege.
    Her love and care can never be equaled or attained any other. Thank you Laura. You are a true friend and respected artist >of this breathtaking Collection The jewels herein contained have taken my breath away.

    Interesting credit on the inside of the 3c album.

  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nobody builds better coin sets than Laura

  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tradedollarnut said:
    Nobody builds better coin sets than Laura

    But, alas, she is now a lady of leisure and there must be a new candidate. ;)

  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If he makes good decisions, sure.

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  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If he keeps it up he’ll be remembered. How many people remember Richmond?

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 17, 2019 8:58PM

    @washingtonrainbows said:
    How many Vice Presidents do you recall from 75 years ago?

    I'd remember a lot more if there were some Vice Presidential Dollars ;)

    Certainly some are remembered, but I'm surprised by how many are forgotten. I've found it interesting to find tokens from old dealers and numismatists. A lot of the time, the tokens last longer than their fame.

  • CurrinCurrin Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 19, 2019 6:44PM

    @Perfection said:

    I assume DLH will start a second set now. It would be nice if he kept the top set all CAC and only include the top eye appeal coins. No one will ever come close to beating this set.

    Let’s keep this mind; Hansen is building a Collection of US Coins, not just sets. His collection can and does have several specimens of the same coin. By doing this, his sets can be assemble and re-assemble for the registry as he chooses. From what I have observed, he has so far assembled the coins in his registry sets for the maximum points. Period. Just because the registry set has the coin with the most points, does not necessarily mean that Hansen does not view another coin in his collection that has better appeal to be less desirable than the coin with most points. In Hansen’s Collection, the registry sets are just a grouping of coins, and not the total representation of his collection. For example, all of Perfection’s CAC purchased coins are presently in The Great Collection, regardless if the coins are listed in his top set or not.

    My 20th Century Type Set, With Type Variations---started : 9/22/1997 ---- completed : 1/7/2004

    My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
  • CurrinCurrin Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 20, 2019 6:20PM

    Patterns

    Yes, patterns. We have heard a lot of babble the last few months pertaining to patterns. Much of the discussion was along these lines. For Hansen to be a serious collector, he must have patterns. Really it does not matter how great the collection is otherwise, without patterns, this is an omission that cannot be overcome.

    How many patterns? Who knows? I guess that maybe it depends on who you ask. We know that Louis Eliasberg had about 200 patterns in his collection. Would this number be enough? Would 200 coins be the measuring stick?

    Hansen added two new patterns this week. These are first additions in more than a year. Is this going to become a trend? Not sure. We can watch and see. Presently, Hansen has 27 coins in his collection of patterns. He will need about 175 more to equal Eliasberg.

    1836 $1 Restrike PR64

    This pattern is a restrike 1836 Christian Gobrecht design silver dollar. These Gobrecht dollars were predecessors to the Seated Liberty Dollars. There is two pages in the Red Book that is dedicated to Golbrecht Dollars (1836-1839). The book describes these coins as: Suspension of silver dollar coinage was lifted in 1831, but it was not until 1835 that steps were taken to resume coinage. Late in that year the Mint director, R.M. Patterson, ordered engraver Christian Gobrecht to prepare a pair of dies based on designs by Thomas Sully and Titian Peale. The first obverse die, dated 1836, bore the seated figure of Liberty on the obverse with the inscription C. GOBRECHT F. (“F.” is an abbreviation for the Latin word Fecit, or “made it”) in the field above the date. On the reverse was a large eagle flying left, surrounded by 26 stars and the legend UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ? ONE DOLLAR ?. It is not known whether coins from these dies were struck at that time. A new obverse die with Gobrecht’s name on the base of Liberty was prepared, and in December 1836, 1,000 coins were struck for circulation. These coins weighed 416 grains, which was the standard enacted in 1792. In January 1837 the standard weight for the dollar was lowered to 412-1/2 grains, and 600 pieces were struck in March 1837 using the dies of 1836. Dies were oriented in a “medal” fashion (top to top when rotated on a vertical axis) to distinguish them from those struck in December 1836. Dollars issued for circulation in 1836, 1837, and 1839 are found with different die alignments. The “original” issue of December 1836 has the normal “coin” orientation (reverse upright when coin is turned on a horizontal axis) with the eagle flying upward. From the late 1850s to the 1870s, the Mint continued to strike Gobrecht dollars to satisfy collector demands. Mules, which had mismatched designs or edge devices, were made in that period and are very rare. Restrikes and mules are seldom seen in worn condition.

    Gobrecht dollars, both original issues and restrikes, were made in either coin-turn orientation ↑ &darr (I and III) or medal-turn orientation ↑ &uarr (II and IV), and were struck in four basic die alignments.

    Die alignment I: ↑ ↓, head of Liberty opposite DO of DOLLAR, eagle flying upward.
    Die alignment II: ↑ ↑, head of Liberty opposite ES of STATES, eagle flying upward.
    Die alignment III: ↑ ↓, head of Liberty opposite N of ONE, eagle flying level.
    Die alignment IV: ↑ ↑, head of Liberty opposite F of OF, eagle flying level.

    Rotated dies are common for original issue and restrike Gobrecht dollars. The 600 coins produced for circulation in March 1837 had dies that rotated from die alignment II to die alignment IV during the striking.

    I am not sure if the Red Book is playing into patterns Hansen decided to include in his collection or not. In addition, Hansen has two other 1836 Golbecht Dollars that are considered original. PCGS Price Guide does not provide a value on this coin. The Auction Record is $92,000 for PR65 in a 2004 Heritage Auction.

    Provenance: Unknown

    In comparison, The Eliasberg Collection coin was a PCGS PR64+. The coin was from the John H. Clapp Collection, sold intact in 1942 to Louis E. Eliasberg, Sr. I believe this coin is presently in the Simpson Collection.

    1836 Golbecht Dollars J-60 Restrike PR64, POP 8/2
    Certification #81471208, PCGS #11227

    The second pattern added:
    1880 Metric Dollar J-1645, CAM PR64CA, POP 1/1
    Certification #84715404, PCGS #506880

    Sorry, No Pictures Available Today

    My 20th Century Type Set, With Type Variations---started : 9/22/1997 ---- completed : 1/7/2004

    My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
  • jerseycat101jerseycat101 Posts: 1,348 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 21, 2019 4:42AM

    I wonder what the naysayers will say when DLH has as many patterns as Eliasberg and Simpson? Will they find some other fault? Or will they acknowledge him as the greatest collector of all time?

  • CoinosaurusCoinosaurus Posts: 9,625 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jerseycat101 said:
    I wonder what the naysayers will say when DLH has as many patterns as Eliasberg and Simpson? Will they find some other fault? Are will they acknowledge him as the greatest collector of all time?

    I don't know why we are all compelled to name one, and only one "greatest collector of all time." Can't we simply recognize Eliasberg, Hansen, etc., as "great" while keeping our minds open enough to recognize that all of these collections have certain strengths and (fewer) weaknesses?

  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jerseycat101 said:
    I wonder what the naysayers will say when DLH has as many patterns as Eliasberg and Simpson? Will they find some other fault? Are will they acknowledge him as the greatest collector of all time?

    They’ll say “where is your 1913 liberty head nickel? Why is your 1804$1 the worst specimen?”

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 20, 2019 8:11PM

    @tradedollarnut said:

    @jerseycat101 said:
    I wonder what the naysayers will say when DLH has as many patterns as Eliasberg and Simpson? Will they find some other fault? Are will they acknowledge him as the greatest collector of all time?

    They’ll say “where is your 1913 liberty head nickel? Why is your 1804$1 the worst specimen?”

    Before that, they will say "where is your 1933 double eagle?"

    To me, the number of patterns doesn't matter as much as having significant patterns. Neither Eliasberg nor Simpson had / have anywhere near a complete set of patterns.

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  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 20, 2019 10:11PM

    @washingtonrainbows said:

    @Zoins said:

    @tradedollarnut said:

    @jerseycat101 said:
    I wonder what the naysayers will say when DLH has as many patterns as Eliasberg and Simpson? Will they find some other fault? Are will they acknowledge him as the greatest collector of all time?

    They’ll say “where is your 1913 liberty head nickel? Why is your 1804$1 the worst specimen?”

    Before that, they will say "where is your 1933 double eagle?"

    To me, the number of patterns doesn't matter as much as having significant patterns. Neither Eliasberg nor Simpson had / have anywhere near a complete set of patterns.

    Don’t agree with the 1933 DE only one available now not fair to add this one since government confiscated all the others.

    To me, it's fair game, especially since Eliasberg had one. If the 1913 Liberty head nickel with 3 available to own now that 2 are owned by museums is fair game, why not the 1933 double eagle with 1 available to own?

    I'd say coins that have no specimens legal to own don't need to be included, like the 1964-D Peace dollar, 1974-D aluminum cent and even the 1974 aluminum cent (since we're talking about patterns too). But if 3 to own is good, why not 1 to own?

  • drei3reedrei3ree Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭✭

    @Currin said:

    Presently, Hansen has 27 coins in his collection of patterns. He will need about 175 more to equal Eliasberg.

    Currin, When you say DLH has "27 patterns," your reference is the PCGS registry, correct? Or, do you have other references?

  • specialistspecialist Posts: 956 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There is no physical way Delloy will ever have anywhere near the great patterns that BC or Simspon have. Considering between them they own the finest individual pieces, how can any one ever compare? He can not get ANY of the gold Patterns and Mr Simspon owns all the unique coin.

    I passed on that Metric dollar. I did NOT like it-yes, I passed on a CAC coin. I just sold another coin he will never get finer-a $1 1839 ORIGINAL Gobrecht in PCGS PR64 CAC. Mr Simspon has the # all time finest Gob collection-all PCSG ALL CAC. There are many unique pieces in this set. Good luck on that one!

    Its a quality issue folks.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 21, 2019 5:27AM

    @washingtonrainbows said:

    @Zoins said:

    @tradedollarnut said:

    @jerseycat101 said:
    I wonder what the naysayers will say when DLH has as many patterns as Eliasberg and Simpson? Will they find some other fault? Are will they acknowledge him as the greatest collector of all time?

    They’ll say “where is your 1913 liberty head nickel? Why is your 1804$1 the worst specimen?”

    Before that, they will say "where is your 1933 double eagle?"

    To me, the number of patterns doesn't matter as much as having significant patterns. Neither Eliasberg nor Simpson had / have anywhere near a complete set of patterns.

    Don’t agree with the 1933 DE only one available now not fair to add this one since government confiscated all the others.

    The other point about the 1933 DE is that John Brush brought it up himself in an earlier discussion where @specialist joked about DLH buying illegal coins. This isn't the minor leagues ;)

    @JBatDavidLawrence said:

    @specialist said:
    Hey, maybe Delloy has my missing 1893CC BM PR65+ CAC???? Is he buying black market coins now????

    I am ONLY kidding-but had to ask! B)

    I still say Delloy needs to do Patterns. If no, can someone explain me why Eliasberg had so many? Trust me, Legend will never lose on Patterns we want or need.

    How about a 1933 Saint before the Branch Mint Proof...

  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Lol. What you call ‘elitist’, I call 150 years of American numismatic history. I’m not the snob proclaiming those coins as must have treasures...generations of numismatists have already done so.

    If you announce you are competing with Eliasberg then you have to do what Eliasberg did - own every American coin

  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It may soon be necessary to see who weighs more than a duck. :|

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,253 ✭✭✭✭✭

    x> @tradedollarnut said:

    If you announce you are competing with Eliasberg then you have to do what Eliasberg did - own every American coin

    Or else what?

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MrEureka said:
    x> @tradedollarnut said:

    If you announce you are competing with Eliasberg then you have to do what Eliasberg did - own every American coin

    Or else what?

    Or else nadder nadder gromish gromish

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  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 21, 2019 9:26PM

    At the end of the day, DLH is collecting for himself. Everyone collects in their own way and, if they are public, are judged that way. Outside observers will have different opinions of the accomplishment, based in part on their own collecting preferences.

    Of course there will be disagreements in collecting priorities since everyone has their own preferences. One such disagreement is on CAC which Laura stands behind resolutely while it appears DLH is willing to go with PCGS alone on some coins. Another disagreement seems to be on the 1913 Liberty nickel which TDN has been an avid collector of but may have less stature with DLH. That being said, he's collecting for himself and history will be the judge. To win over Laura, TDN, and others, he may have to change his approach, but it seems that's not a goal, at least so far.

    It will be interesting to see how things play out. Part of me wonders if he's enjoying the controversy he's stirring up. After all, it creates more buzz around his collecting.

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