@Currin said:
“Hansen Watch” reached the mile marker of over 5 thousand views this weekend. I appreciate everyone that have dropped in and viewed thread from time to time. I want to especially acknowledge the top stakeholders in the field that have added incredible insights. You know who you are, thanks! I will acknowledge there are haters; that’s just reality. This thread was not intended to focus on Mr. Hansen, rather the collection and merits of the collection as it grows. I know the difficulty of separating the two. Also, I know some of you hate the name of the thread. I know jokes have been made about it on this and other threads. I have to admit, I could have done a better job with the name, but let’s move on.
Many of you have been watching, but have not commented. That’s great. You are not required to comment to watch. I think the title “Hansen Watch” works well with that aspect. If you are new, and find the thread enjoyable, please feel free to give a shout out. Last I will say, I don’t think the building of this collection is a short endeavor. It is going be journey that will last many years or decades. As this list gets shorter, the list will get harder to check one off. Anyone that has experience in building a set has experienced first-hand. So, without further delay, let me share the countdown list. I think the list is accurate and precise. Thanks for the help and input of others. Although, it possible that I have missed including one or two requirements. If you feel something need to be added or deleted, please feel free share.
There are 33 remaining coins that must be acquired for a “True Eliasberg Complete Set plus Two”. The first plus is the unique 1870-S Half Dime that was not known at the time Eliasberg completed his set. For the second addition, Eliasberg never owned the 1866 "No Motto" Dollar Proof Only. Due to this fact, he was challenge on occasions that he did not have a complete set. From the National Silver Dollar Round Table (Nov. 1983) published by Bruce Amspacher, There are only two examples traceable of this great rarity… An excellent argument can be made that this coin is a regular issue, and that without it no collection can be truly complete. In fact, I corresponded with Louis Eliasberg about it in the mid-‘70s, since there was no 1866 No Motto Dollar in his collection. If Hansen can add this coin to this collection, this half century debate can be put to rest.
The 14 coins that are not listed in the complete registry set are Bold below
Top 10 - These coins will be the ultimate challenge.
Next 12 – These coins will be a challenge but should be able to find a specimen in desirable grade.
Last 11 – These coins will not be a challenge to find.
Top 10 1870-S Half Dime (Unique Coin in an anonymous East Coast collection) 1873-CC "No Arrows" Dime (Unique Coin in an anonymous collection) 1870-S Three Dollar Only (Unique Coin owned by the Bass Foundation displayed at the ANA) 1866 "No Motto" Dollar Proof Only (2 Minted, Unique Private Coin in an anonymous collection)
1822 Half Eagle (Survival 3, Unique Private Owned Coin in the Pogue Collection) 1933 Double Eagle (Known Survival 14, Unique Legally Owned Coin in an anonymous collection)
1854-S Half Eagle (Survival 4, 2 in private: 1-Pogue Collection; 2 is newly discovered and scheduled for 2018 fall auction)
1798 "Small Eagle" Half Eagle (Survival 7, Only 2 maybe 3 examples that could be privately purchased) 1913 Liberty Head Nickel Proof Only (5 Minted, 3 private hands, Eliasberg Specimen is schedule to be auction in August)
1873-CC "No Arrows" Quarter Dollar (Survival 4, Last auction appearance for this coin was 2015 for Eliasberg specimen)
Next 12 1885 Trade Dollar Proof Only (Minted known 5) 1838-0 Half Dollar BM Only (Survival 9, six known for private purchase)
1819 “No Variety” Half Eagle (Survival 7) 1880 Four Dollar Gold "Stellas" (Coiled Hair) Proof Only (Survival 8) 1827 "Original" Quarter Dollar Proof Only (Survival 9) 1841 Quarter Eagle (Survival 11) 1894-S Barber Dime BM Proof Only (Survival 13)
1797 "Large Eagle” Half Eagle (Survival 20) 1880 Four Dollar Gold "Stellas" (Flowing Hair) Proof Only (Survival 24)
1802 Half Dime (Survival 25)
1864-S Half Eagle (Survival 32, only 7 known in AU)
1933 Ten Dollar (Survival 40, rarest issue in series)
For the 1866 No Motto, it gets tricky, because there are the quarter, half dollar, and dollar in the Du Pont collection,
on loan to the ANA.
These are privately owned, but perhaps it's considered a "permanent loan".
Seems like it could be in the same category as the 1870-S $3 in the Bass Foundation Collection, also on loan to the ANA.
Including the 1866 No Motto also opens the door to other "transitional patterns"
like the 1859 / 1860 half dimes, etc.
That road could lead to considering the 1863 2c http://uspatterns.stores.yahoo.net/j316p381.html
the 1863-L Indian Cent, etc. http://uspatterns.stores.yahoo.net/j304p367.html
It could be fair to say that the 1913 Liberty 5c may be in this category as well.
It's simpler to just keep focus on what Eliasberg had.
@MANOFCOINS,
Mr. Hansen posted a couple of times last fall on the other thread and shared his general plan for the collection. This was his first post:
D. L. Hansen. I recently discovered this blog and thought I could add some clarity to the discussion. I am serious collector that enjoys history and The relationship the coins play in our nations history. The Civil War, the opening of the US mint, toned coins and being addicted with the mind dilemma of ADD I need to finish things. Quality matters and building friendships with dealers and collectors teaches me so much. I'm a student of Numnastics
The current Internet era allows for much deeper study then Luis Eliasburg had during his lifetime. I believe we can better compare coins in various grades today which allows for higher grades in most cases. I do not believe you can equal the completeness of Luis Eliasburg And example would be the 1822 five dollar gold piece I recently viewed in the Smithsonian. You cannot complete the five dollar gold collection. However I believe that you can overtime improve the quality because of our superior ability to study coins today but no one myself included will not be the same collection Eliasburg did. His accomplishment amazes me.
I do hope to build the complete collection to 1964 that is in a better grade but will never be as complete. The quest is to make it as complete as possible in the modern era. We all need to focus and that is my goal it will take years if not decades is to fully accomplish this objective
We collect because it is hard and rewarding to find hidden gems that are beautiful and rare. I enjoyed the fraternity a fellow collectors and seek to upgrade our stature as serious and dedicated collectors that admire each other's efforts
Thank you for the appreciation shown for my efforts. I enjoy what I do and I enjoy the people like yourself still enjoy this also. Continue seeking for the best
DLHansen
I believe this answers TDN's concern about the quality also.
On the extreme rarities, a collector faces the classic tradeoff - do I buy this one now, even though it's not quite the one I'd like, or do I wait for possibly a long time and hope that the better one becomes available.
Sometimes you can do both, buy it now and consider a future upgrade if a significantly better coin becomes available.
We already know that D.L. Hansen has a much better 1853-O No Arrows half dollar (the Garrett VF-35, compared to Eliasberg VG), so I believe he has been sticking with the quality plan he described above.
I have been impressed with how Hansen has constantly improved the quality of his set (even with a few coins I use to own). Just because he buys a coin to fill a hole does not mean that coin will be the final selection for that date. I have seen him have coins that I thought were avg. at best and replace it with a spectacular example. Most of us when buying a high priced coin are committing to that coin and not looking to upgrade. I don't think that applies to Hansen.
Hmmmmm, you can’t leave it there. I think I know your views. In 2003, you said the 1866 No Motto Dollar was not a regular issue. There are several non-regular issue coins that are required for a complete set. The big question should this one of them. Some old timers said yes back in the day. Did Eliasberg inability to acquire one of the two change history?
New Upgrade Breakaway Coin (1867-S 25C MS)
I am hooked on old gold coins, but when I saw this upgrade, I knew that I must show. If you are a quarter guy, you have to love this coin. This is a fairly tough date with only approx. 10 that is MS60 or better. This is not only the finest grade, but it is a full 3 points better that the next coin. It is the only 1867-S 25C graded MS65 or better, and this one is much better!
The PCGS price guide list as $85,000. This coin lasted appeared in a Heritage Auction May 2015 when it sold for $88,125. At that time, the coin was in a NGC MS67 Holder with a CAC sticker. Hansen’s acquisition appears to be a recent private transaction with the terms not being public.
Heritage described the coin this way: This fabulous Superb Gem is the single finest certified 1867-S Seated Liberty quarter by three grade points. The original, untoned, satiny "skin" is intact, and both sides are essentially untoned. The central devices are fully struck, but the peripheral stars are incompletely brought up -- a trait seen on all known 1867-S quarters. The surfaces are essentially perfect, the only mentionable flaw being a small planchet flake to the right of the 7 in the date. A fine die crack is seen up and to the left of the 1 in the date. Eye appeal is incredible.
Provenance: James A. Stack Collection (Stack's, 3/1975), lot 122; I. Kleinman; Corky Vena; New England Rare Coin Fund I (1977-1980); Marty Haber; Auction '86 (Paramount, 7/1986), lot 1619; Jay Miller; Brian Keefe; Long Beach Signature (Heritage 6/2004), lot 6063
@Currin said: New Upgrade Breakaway Coin (1867-S 25C MS)
I am hooked on old gold coins, but when I saw this upgrade, I knew that I must show. If you are a quarter guy, you have to love this coin. This is a fairly tough date with only approx. 10 that is MS60 or better. This is not only the finest grade, but it is a full 3 points better that the next coin. It is the only 1867-S 25C graded MS65 or better, and this one is much better!
The PCGS price guide list as $85,000. This coin lasted appeared in a Heritage Auction May 2015 when it sold for $88,125. At that time, the coin was in a NGC MS67 Holder with a CAC sticker. Hansen’s acquisition appears to be a recent private transaction with the terms not being public.
Heritage described the coin this way: This fabulous Superb Gem is the single finest certified 1867-S Seated Liberty quarter by three grade points. The original, untoned, satiny "skin" is intact, and both sides are essentially untoned. The central devices are fully struck, but the peripheral stars are incompletely brought up -- a trait seen on all known 1867-S quarters. The surfaces are essentially perfect, the only mentionable flaw being a small planchet flake to the right of the 7 in the date. A fine die crack is seen up and to the left of the 1 in the date. Eye appeal is incredible.
Provenance: James A. Stack Collection (Stack's, 3/1975), lot 122; I. Kleinman; Corky Vena; New England Rare Coin Fund I (1977-1980); Marty Haber; Auction '86 (Paramount, 7/1986), lot 1619; Jay Miller; Brian Keefe; Long Beach Signature (Heritage 6/2004), lot 6063
1867-S 25C MS67 PCGS CAC Briggs 1-A
A coin like this intrigues me. It is an amazing coin. Very expensive. However, it is not famous and will not scream out among the thousands of coins he has. In fact, if Currin didn't highlight it, many of us would never know. I have seen him upgrade like this in a number of instances. He is truly building something special.
It is confusing. You may be seeing why I am requiring this coin. This coin can be either a regular proof issue or pattern. The Simpson coin number is 7009, according to the 100 Greastest set. This is the number for a regular proof issue. CoinFacts does not show a coin graded by this number. Hmm. Both known coins in CoinFacts show as DCAM, 87009. Either the Simpson coin is a DCAM or the database is incorrect. The other possibility is for there to be three coins, but I doubt that is the case. I do remember 3 were rumored somewhere, but don’t remember where. Also, it interesting Simpson coin is not listed in the pedigree in CoinFacts. I am not sure how often the database is updated. Coin number 60738 is the number for the J540 Pattern Coin. It appear this coin can be graded two ways by PCGS, as a regular issue or a pattern issue. It appear Simpson and the Smithsonian issues are both in the PCGS regular Proof holders. I think that may be why it is not listed in the Simpson pattern set. It is not in a pattern holder. Interesting..right? Maybe the Specialist can set the record straight.
Even though the 1866 No Motto Quarter, Half and Dollar are listed in Judd, I don't consider them patterns. In fact, they're no more or less "patterns" than the 1804 Dollar and 1913 Liberty Nickel.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
@Currin said: New Upgrade Breakaway Coin (1867-S 25C MS)
I am hooked on old gold coins, but when I saw this upgrade, I knew that I must show. If you are a quarter guy, you have to love this coin. This is a fairly tough date with only approx. 10 that is MS60 or better. This is not only the finest grade, but it is a full 3 points better that the next coin. It is the only 1867-S 25C graded MS65 or better, and this one is much better!
The PCGS price guide list as $85,000. This coin lasted appeared in a Heritage Auction May 2015 when it sold for $88,125. At that time, the coin was in a NGC MS67 Holder with a CAC sticker. Hansen’s acquisition appears to be a recent private transaction with the terms not being public.
Heritage described the coin this way: This fabulous Superb Gem is the single finest certified 1867-S Seated Liberty quarter by three grade points. The original, untoned, satiny "skin" is intact, and both sides are essentially untoned. The central devices are fully struck, but the peripheral stars are incompletely brought up -- a trait seen on all known 1867-S quarters. The surfaces are essentially perfect, the only mentionable flaw being a small planchet flake to the right of the 7 in the date. A fine die crack is seen up and to the left of the 1 in the date. Eye appeal is incredible.
Provenance: James A. Stack Collection (Stack's, 3/1975), lot 122; I. Kleinman; Corky Vena; New England Rare Coin Fund I (1977-1980); Marty Haber; Auction '86 (Paramount, 7/1986), lot 1619; Jay Miller; Brian Keefe; Long Beach Signature (Heritage 6/2004), lot 6063
1867-S 25C MS67 PCGS CAC Briggs 1-A
A coin like this intrigues me. It is an amazing coin. Very expensive. However, it is not famous and will not scream out among the thousands of coins he has. In fact, if Currin didn't highlight it, many of us would never know. I have seen him upgrade like this in a number of instances. He is truly building something special.
The 1867-S is famous to anyone who has read @roadrunner 's hundreds (?) of posts about the coin.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
@MrEureka said:
Even though the 1866 No Motto Quarter, Half and Dollar are listed in Judd, I don't consider them patterns. In fact, they're no more or less "patterns" than the 1804 Dollar and 1913 Liberty Nickel.
You are more knowledgeable than me in this field. What I have seen and read, through history in most circles, the quarter and half have most of the time been labeled as patterns. The Red Book is the exception. The dollar is the controversial piece. Red Book, CoinFacts, Rare Coin Market Report, all have listing as regular proof issue.
I'd say they (1866 No Motto, 1913 Liberty 5c, 1804 dollar) are in the "gray area" of "transitional patterns", with designs from circulating coins, but with dates later or earlier than the circulating coins.
Of course, proofs don't exactly circulate, either, but were in theory generally available to the public.
Ok... I have chased the rabbit all the way down in the hole. There are three of these coins incorrectly reported in the PCGS POP report. The PR63+ is registered to Simpson. There is also a PR63CAM and a PR65CAM. The 65CAM is the DuPont specimen in the Smithsonian. The first two are the same coin (obvious by the two photos). It appear the Simpson specimen dropped the CAM and upgraded from a PR63 to PR63+. Not sure why that would happen, because I don't think it was a crossover. I hope the Specialist will clear this up. Done with this. There are several new Hansen upgrades that I need to share. They are really great stuff!
Simpson's PR63+ Specimen cert #28572157 listed in registry
Simpson's PR63CAM not listed in the registry
PCGS PR63CAM Image courtesy of American Numismatic Rarities
@tradedollarnut said:
I don’t see how anyone could possibly classify an 1804$1 as a pattern.
Agreed, but please explain why an 1866 NM $1 is any more of a pattern than the 1804.
I’m not claiming it to be a pattern....just that it historically is classified as one. Similar to the 1836 name under base Gobrecht. Not a pattern but rather a Mint created delicacy for gain.
The 1834 dollar (intentional - wish they had just put that date on it) was a bonafide issue for government use.
Hansen still needs a 1958 DDO Lincoln Cent to complete his Registry Set of
Lincoln Cents with major Varieties. Eliasberg did not have one but the Registry
Was not happening when Eliasberg put together his collection. How come this coin was not listed “ as needed “by Hansen ?
@STEWARTBLAYNUMIS said:
Hansen still needs a 1958 DDO Lincoln Cent to complete his Registry Set of
Lincoln Cents with major Varieties. Eliasberg did not have one but the Registry
Was not happening when Eliasberg put together his collection. How come this coin was not listed “ as needed “by Hansen ?
I don't think they are including the varieties in this endevor.
@STEWARTBLAYNUMIS said:
Hansen still needs a 1958 DDO Lincoln Cent to complete his Registry Set of
Lincoln Cents with major Varieties. Eliasberg did not have one but the Registry
Was not happening when Eliasberg put together his collection. How come this coin was not listed “ as needed “by Hansen ?
I don't think they are including the varieties in this endevor.
Correct. The Major Varities is for another discusssion. There about 70 Major Varities that are still needed. The 1958 DDO s one of the 70, but is not one of the big boys. To name a few, 1861 Parquet Double Eagle, 1849-C Open Wreath Gold Dollar, 1973 Strawberry Leaf Large Cent, and others.
He just added an 1861-S $5 in low grade to knock another one off of the list. Also check out the ton of Barber Half Dollars that have been upgraded! A collection purchased?
@golden said:
He just added an 1861-S $5 in low grade to knock another one off of the list. Also check out the ton of Barber Half Dollars that have been upgraded! A collection purchased?
COUNTDOWN 32
1861-S $5 F15
This is second consecutive countdown coin that is not impressive at all. This must be another coin that filling a hole until a better coin becomes available. The San Francesco 1861 is not a common date. In comparison, Eliasberg specimen was a VG10. There are no certified mint grades and the finest being AU55 PCGS grade. Hansen has a higher grade coin than Eliasberg, and there is not much else to say about this coin.
There is no history on this coin.
David Akers, CoinFacts comments on the 1861-S $5: The 1861-S is marginally more rare than the 1860-S or 1858-S and is comparable to the 1859-S. Like the latter, the 1861-S ranks in the top 10% of the $5 series in rarity having appeared at auction only 24 times in all grades in the 337 catalogues in my survey. It has never been offered above EF and I have only seen two examples at that level. Most known specimens (there aren't really very many) are only Fine or VF and this date, like all the San Francisco Mint Half Eagles of the 1858-1876 period, is grossly underrated and underpriced for its rarity.
@STEWARTBLAYNUMIS said:
Looks like Mr. Hansen purchased the entire Perfection collection of Barber Half Dollars.
Perhaps the Specialist can chime in about it .
Perfection retired his Barber Quarters too. Can we make an assumption?
DLH now owns the halves. He will catch Duckor by this time next year. I believe his current set contains 59 coins from my set.
Someone else has the MS quarters. This person had all the top examples CAC that I did not.
So he made one set that will never be equaled.
It was sad to see them go after so many years. It was very difficult to improve both sets using
All CAC coins so I decided to move on. I am still buying gem coins.
@Perfection said:
DLH now owns the halves. He will catch Duckor by this time next year. I believe his current set contains 59 coins from my set.
Someone else has the MS quarters. This person had all the top examples CAC that I did not.
So he made one set that will never be equaled.
It was sad to see them go after so many years. It was very difficult to improve both sets using
All CAC coins so I decided to move on. I am still buying gem coins.
Congrats and best wishes on your new endeavor
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I live in North Carolina, so this branch mint has always been special to me. With the two Charlotte upgrades in the last couple weeks to the Hansen collection, this seems like to perfect time to have a mint feature. The completed basic set for this mint contains 50 items, and there are four additional items for the major varieties set. Even with this somewhat low count, only six collections have met the challenge for completion (Bass, Smithsonian, Eliasberg, Southern Collection, NC Collection and JJ Pitman). Hansen is one coin away for completing the seventh basic set. Harry W. Bass is presently honored with assembling a complete set of the highest quality gold coin collection minted at the Charlotte mint.
Presently, Hansen’s basic set is GPA rated at 59.61 and the Bass set is 59.66. Bass is leading by only 0.05 of a point. With the last coined added, 1846-C $5, and a couple more quality upgrades, Hansen should pass Bass for the all-time finest.
For the major varieties set, Hansen need the 1846-C $5, and two varieties (1849-C Open Wreath $1 and 1839/8 $2.5). Bass did not owned the neither the Wreath $1 or 1839/8 $2.5. By Hansen completing the basic set and adding just one of these two varieties, the Hansen sets should overtake Bass. If Hansen can complete the set with all three items, he will achieve an all-time prominence that no has ever been able to accomplish before (Note: According to PCGS registry there are no all-time complete Major Variety Set). Eliasberg never owned the 1849-C Open Wreath $1.
1855-C $2.50 MS64+
The survival estimate for this coin is approx. 90. There are only 5-6 in mint condition, and recently there are no coins grade MS65 or better. This coin sets on top of PCGS total population of 75 certified. The coin is 1/0 per PCGS POP report.
The PCGS price guide list as $87,500. This coin does not have any history in Coin Facts. The top previously PCGS coin is a MS63, so I think we can eliminate a possibility of an upgrade. One of the NGC MS65 certifies sold by Heritage in an April 2018 auction for $81,000. If this is the same coin, then it lost its Gem status with the crossover.
If this is the Heritage NGC coin, then coin described this way: (Does this description match the coin photo?) Bright rose-gold surfaces appear on each side of this outstanding Liberty quarter eagle. The upper stars and the eagle's legs and talons are incompletely struck, as always. However, Liberty's curls show strong detail, as do the olive leaves. A wire rim encircles most of the obverse. As seen on all examples examined by us, a small die break, resembling a cud, shows on the reverse rim from 7-8 o'clock. Luminous luster flows over semireflective, minimally marked fields and overall eye appeal is tremendous. This coin should find a home in the finest collection or Registry Set.
Provenance: unknown
1855-C $2.50 MS64+ Near Gem ---- NGC MS65 Gem?
1840-C $5 MS64+
This is another coin that that presently does not have any PCGS certified MS65 or better specimens. This coin sets on top of PCGS total population of 135 certified at a grade of MS64+. The coin is 1/0 per PCGS POP report.
The PCGS price guide list as $120,000. This coin appeared in the Heritage Long Beach auction in June 2018. It sold for $120,000. This coin does not have any Coin Facts history, but some information can be found in the Heritage listing.
Heritage describes the coin this way: Potential interested parties should strongly consider a premium bid, as this coin may disappear once again into strong hands for some time. This green-gold near-Gem has satiny luster and excellent design definition. Although shy of fully struck, the relief elements are far stronger than typically seen for a Charlotte product. Slight softness is evident in the hair below ER of LIBERTY, and some original planchet roughness appears in that area. A hint of pale copper-orange toning on both sides adds to the incredible eye appeal.
I live in North Carolina, so this branch mint has always been special to me. With the two Charlotte upgrades in the last couple weeks to the Hansen collection, this seems like to perfect time to have a mint feature. The completed basic set for this mint contains 50 items, and there are four additional items for the major varieties set. Even with this somewhat low count, only six collections have met the challenge for completion (Bass, Smithsonian, Eliasberg, Southern Collection, NC Collection and JJ Pitman). Hansen is one coin away for completing the seventh basic set. Harry W. Bass is presently honored with assembling a complete set of the highest quality gold coin collection minted at the Charlotte mint.
Presently, Hansen’s basic set is GPA rated at 59.61 and the Bass set is 59.66. Bass is leading by only 0.05 of a point. With the last coined added, 1846-C $5, and a couple more quality upgrades, Hansen should pass Bass for the all-time finest.
For the major varieties set, Hansen need the 1846-C $5, and two varieties (1849-C Open Wreath $1 and 1839/8 $2.5). Bass did not owned the neither the Wreath $1 or 1839/8 $2.5. By Hansen completing the basic set and adding just one of these two varieties, the Hansen sets should overtake Bass. If Hansen can complete the set with all three items, he will achieve an all-time prominence that no has ever been able to accomplish before (Note: According to PCGS registry there are no all-time complete Major Variety Set). Eliasberg never owned the 1849-C Open Wreath $1.
1855-C $2.50 MS64+
The survival estimate for this coin is approx. 90. There are only 5-6 in mint condition, and recently there are no coins grade MS65 or better. This coin sets on top of PCGS total population of 75 certified. The coin is 1/0 per PCGS POP report.
The PCGS price guide list as $87,500. This coin does not have any history in Coin Facts. The top previously PCGS coin is a MS63, so I think we can eliminate a possibility of an upgrade. One of the NGC MS65 certifies sold by Heritage in an April 2018 auction for $81,000. If this is the same coin, then it lost its Gem status with the crossover.
If this is the Heritage NGC coin, then coin described this way: (Does this description match the coin photo?) Bright rose-gold surfaces appear on each side of this outstanding Liberty quarter eagle. The upper stars and the eagle's legs and talons are incompletely struck, as always. However, Liberty's curls show strong detail, as do the olive leaves. A wire rim encircles most of the obverse. As seen on all examples examined by us, a small die break, resembling a cud, shows on the reverse rim from 7-8 o'clock. Luminous luster flows over semireflective, minimally marked fields and overall eye appeal is tremendous. This coin should find a home in the finest collection or Registry Set.
Provenance: unknown
1855-C $2.50 MS64+ Near Gem ---- NGC MS65 Gem?
1840-C $5 MS64+
This is another coin that that presently does not have any PCGS certified MS65 or better specimens. This coin sets on top of PCGS total population of 135 certified at a grade of MS64+. The coin is 1/0 per PCGS POP report.
The PCGS price guide list as $120,000. This coin appeared in the Heritage Long Beach auction in June 2018. It sold for $120,000. This coin does not have any Coin Facts history, but some information can be found in the Heritage listing.
Heritage describes the coin this way: Potential interested parties should strongly consider a premium bid, as this coin may disappear once again into strong hands for some time. This green-gold near-Gem has satiny luster and excellent design definition. Although shy of fully struck, the relief elements are far stronger than typically seen for a Charlotte product. Slight softness is evident in the hair below ER of LIBERTY, and some original planchet roughness appears in that area. A hint of pale copper-orange toning on both sides adds to the incredible eye appeal.
@Currin Your constant updating of this thread and the history lessons it provides, makes it one of the best threads I've read here in quite some time. I can't thank you enough for the pleasure it brings me just to read it.
Keep up the good work as this is possibly the thread of the year.
Stewy, I think he underbid me on the 1C 1958 DDO. Delloy is very structured sometimes about what he pays. I know, many times I have beaten him in auctions (I just did on the 1793 Chain in Long Beach). He is not wrong for that.
My feel on the 1804 $1-while I have been taught never to pay $1 million for anything that looks warn, where is he going to get another? He should have chased the one TDN bought. Circumstances change.
Too bad early on he did not recognize the "right" coins. Now he does. BUT he will run into my crew: Black Cat, Hedgie, RSD, and someone really big at the upcoming ANA auctions. None of them like missing a coin. he's not the only game in town!
The Proof Trade Dollar set is describe by PCGS this way: Assembling a complete set of proof trade dollars is even more difficult than the mint state collection. The true stoppers are the ultra-rare 1884 and 1885. Of the ten 1884 specimens that were minted, PCGS had graded nine, with the highest grade being a magnificent PR67. There are only five 1885 proofs, with the most recent sale being the Eliasberg specimen which realized nearly $1 million when auctioned by Bowers and Merena.
The total number of coins needed to complete this set is only 13. As small as the set is, only six completed sets are listed in the all-time PCGS registry. The finest is a current set owned by Simpson, set rating of 66.65. It squeaks out the Hall of Fame Legend Collection with the rating of 66.64. The third place is the Louis Eliasberg's proof trade dollar set described with impeccable quality with rating of 66.11. The remaining three sets drops significantly in quality (Waldo, Norweb, and Carter).
The Hansen collection upgraded 10 of the 13 coins this week that increases the set GPA w/ top set bonus to 68.62. The upgraded included 4 top Pop 1/0 PCGS certified coins. The set will need to add the 1885 proof to reach the finest of all-time position. The finest graded specimen (PR63+ CA) is in the Simpson current finest set, so that one may be off the market. The Eliasberg specimen may be out the somewhere. This specimen is not certified, but it is estimated having a grade of MS65CA. The acquisition this coin would elevate the set to undisputable finest of all-time.
These upgrades are beautiful and some of the finest coins known for this denomination, but history for these coins are sketchy. Some of these could be from the deleted Perfection 12 set, but it is not confirmed. Can anyone share a light? Where is TDN when you him?
1874 T$1 PR66+ PCGS POP 2/0
1876 T$1, CA PR67CA PCGS POP 1/0
1880 T$1 Trade, CA PR67+ CA PCGS POP 1/0 (No picture)
Comments
A great post! Thank you
I wish Mr. Hansen the best of luck.
Looks good. I like the sorting by estimated surviving population in private hands (i.e. theoretically available).
For the 1802 half dime, you could add: "only 9 known in VF - AU".
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/937249/1802-half-dime-provenance-top-9-specimens
For the 1866 No Motto, it gets tricky, because there are the quarter, half dollar, and dollar in the Du Pont collection,
on loan to the ANA.
These are privately owned, but perhaps it's considered a "permanent loan".
Seems like it could be in the same category as the 1870-S $3 in the Bass Foundation Collection, also on loan to the ANA.
Including the 1866 No Motto also opens the door to other "transitional patterns"
like the 1859 / 1860 half dimes, etc.
That road could lead to considering the 1863 2c
http://uspatterns.stores.yahoo.net/j316p381.html
the 1863-L Indian Cent, etc.
http://uspatterns.stores.yahoo.net/j304p367.html
It could be fair to say that the 1913 Liberty 5c may be in this category as well.
It's simpler to just keep focus on what Eliasberg had.
No motto dollar? Hmmmmm
wow what a set!
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
I am enjoying following this endeavor. Learning a lot along the way. It's not up to me to tell someone how to spend their hard earned money.
@MANOFCOINS,
Mr. Hansen posted a couple of times last fall on the other thread and shared his general plan for the collection. This was his first post:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/11805186#Comment_11805186
I believe this answers TDN's concern about the quality also.
On the extreme rarities, a collector faces the classic tradeoff - do I buy this one now, even though it's not quite the one I'd like, or do I wait for possibly a long time and hope that the better one becomes available.
Sometimes you can do both, buy it now and consider a future upgrade if a significantly better coin becomes available.
We already know that D.L. Hansen has a much better 1853-O No Arrows half dollar (the Garrett VF-35, compared to Eliasberg VG), so I believe he has been sticking with the quality plan he described above.
I have been impressed with how Hansen has constantly improved the quality of his set (even with a few coins I use to own). Just because he buys a coin to fill a hole does not mean that coin will be the final selection for that date. I have seen him have coins that I thought were avg. at best and replace it with a spectacular example. Most of us when buying a high priced coin are committing to that coin and not looking to upgrade. I don't think that applies to Hansen.
Hmmmmm, you can’t leave it there. I think I know your views. In 2003, you said the 1866 No Motto Dollar was not a regular issue. There are several non-regular issue coins that are required for a complete set. The big question should this one of them. Some old timers said yes back in the day. Did Eliasberg inability to acquire one of the two change history?
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
New Upgrade Breakaway Coin (1867-S 25C MS)
I am hooked on old gold coins, but when I saw this upgrade, I knew that I must show. If you are a quarter guy, you have to love this coin. This is a fairly tough date with only approx. 10 that is MS60 or better. This is not only the finest grade, but it is a full 3 points better that the next coin. It is the only 1867-S 25C graded MS65 or better, and this one is much better!
The PCGS price guide list as $85,000. This coin lasted appeared in a Heritage Auction May 2015 when it sold for $88,125. At that time, the coin was in a NGC MS67 Holder with a CAC sticker. Hansen’s acquisition appears to be a recent private transaction with the terms not being public.
Heritage described the coin this way:
This fabulous Superb Gem is the single finest certified 1867-S Seated Liberty quarter by three grade points. The original, untoned, satiny "skin" is intact, and both sides are essentially untoned. The central devices are fully struck, but the peripheral stars are incompletely brought up -- a trait seen on all known 1867-S quarters. The surfaces are essentially perfect, the only mentionable flaw being a small planchet flake to the right of the 7 in the date. A fine die crack is seen up and to the left of the 1 in the date. Eye appeal is incredible.
Provenance: James A. Stack Collection (Stack's, 3/1975), lot 122; I. Kleinman; Corky Vena; New England Rare Coin Fund I (1977-1980); Marty Haber; Auction '86 (Paramount, 7/1986), lot 1619; Jay Miller; Brian Keefe; Long Beach Signature (Heritage 6/2004), lot 6063
1867-S 25C MS67 PCGS CAC Briggs 1-A
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
I love James A Stack coins
Simpson has the Dupont $1 1866. I think it is considered a pattern
uspatterns.com (Saul Teichman)
describes the 2 known 1966 no motto dollars as "fantasies" struck for Robert Colton Davis, probably in "1869 or the early 1870s".
http://uspatterns.stores.yahoo.net/j540p605.html
Of the 2 known, 1 was in the quarter - half dollar - dollar set owned by duPont, stolen in 1967, and then recovered in 1999 (quarter and half) and 2004 (dollar).
This set was donated to the Smithsonian in November 2014, so that pretty much puts it off the market.
The J-540 dollar is not shown in Simpson's Registry Set for patterns.
https://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/u-s-patterns/complete-sets/complete-patterns-die-trials-experimental-pieces/alltimeset/129368
Like I said, Simpson has the 1866-I should know, I sold it to him and maintain his collection
I have seen it in the 100 Greatest Set. Very nice coin.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
A coin like this intrigues me. It is an amazing coin. Very expensive. However, it is not famous and will not scream out among the thousands of coins he has. In fact, if Currin didn't highlight it, many of us would never know. I have seen him upgrade like this in a number of instances. He is truly building something special.
Yep.
https://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/mycoinfacts/47-1866-no-motto-dollar-pattern-proof/1921827/72275
It seems that the 2 sets use 2 different PCGS Coin Numbers (7009 and 60738), and they are not connected in the database.
Is one of them the copper version?
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
There is a copper "die trial" 1866 with motto $1 - J-541.
It shows up correctly in Simpson's pattern set, PCGS Coin Number 70739
https://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/mycoinfacts/1866-s-1-j-541/1921533/129368
Actually PCGS CoinFacts has this copper with motto as PCGS Coin Number 60739
http://www.pcgscoinfacts.com/Coin/Detail/60739
So it looks like there are some typos in the set composition lists.
It is confusing. You may be seeing why I am requiring this coin. This coin can be either a regular proof issue or pattern. The Simpson coin number is 7009, according to the 100 Greastest set. This is the number for a regular proof issue. CoinFacts does not show a coin graded by this number. Hmm. Both known coins in CoinFacts show as DCAM, 87009. Either the Simpson coin is a DCAM or the database is incorrect. The other possibility is for there to be three coins, but I doubt that is the case. I do remember 3 were rumored somewhere, but don’t remember where. Also, it interesting Simpson coin is not listed in the pedigree in CoinFacts. I am not sure how often the database is updated. Coin number 60738 is the number for the J540 Pattern Coin. It appear this coin can be graded two ways by PCGS, as a regular issue or a pattern issue. It appear Simpson and the Smithsonian issues are both in the PCGS regular Proof holders. I think that may be why it is not listed in the Simpson pattern set. It is not in a pattern holder. Interesting..right? Maybe the Specialist can set the record straight.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
Even though the 1866 No Motto Quarter, Half and Dollar are listed in Judd, I don't consider them patterns. In fact, they're no more or less "patterns" than the 1804 Dollar and 1913 Liberty Nickel.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
The 1867-S is famous to anyone who has read @roadrunner 's hundreds (?) of posts about the coin.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
You are more knowledgeable than me in this field. What I have seen and read, through history in most circles, the quarter and half have most of the time been labeled as patterns. The Red Book is the exception. The dollar is the controversial piece. Red Book, CoinFacts, Rare Coin Market Report, all have listing as regular proof issue.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
I'd say they (1866 No Motto, 1913 Liberty 5c, 1804 dollar) are in the "gray area" of "transitional patterns", with designs from circulating coins, but with dates later or earlier than the circulating coins.
Of course, proofs don't exactly circulate, either, but were in theory generally available to the public.
As Andy said:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/962146/another-old-friend-crosses-over-ms67-1867-s-quarter-but-as-usual-it-wasnt-me-getting-the-score
I don’t see how anyone could possibly classify an 1804$1 as a pattern.
Ok... I have chased the rabbit all the way down in the hole. There are three of these coins incorrectly reported in the PCGS POP report. The PR63+ is registered to Simpson. There is also a PR63CAM and a PR65CAM. The 65CAM is the DuPont specimen in the Smithsonian. The first two are the same coin (obvious by the two photos). It appear the Simpson specimen dropped the CAM and upgraded from a PR63 to PR63+. Not sure why that would happen, because I don't think it was a crossover. I hope the Specialist will clear this up. Done with this. There are several new Hansen upgrades that I need to share. They are really great stuff!
Simpson's PR63+ Specimen cert #28572157 listed in registry
Simpson's PR63CAM not listed in the registry
PCGS PR63CAM Image courtesy of American Numismatic Rarities
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
Agreed, but please explain why an 1866 NM $1 is any more of a pattern than the 1804.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I’m not claiming it to be a pattern....just that it historically is classified as one. Similar to the 1836 name under base Gobrecht. Not a pattern but rather a Mint created delicacy for gain.
The 1834 dollar (intentional - wish they had just put that date on it) was a bonafide issue for government use.
Hansen still needs a 1958 DDO Lincoln Cent to complete his Registry Set of
Lincoln Cents with major Varieties. Eliasberg did not have one but the Registry
Was not happening when Eliasberg put together his collection. How come this coin was not listed “ as needed “by Hansen ?
From I heard, he did not want one. There was one in a recent auction.
I don't think they are including the varieties in this endevor.
I think he wanted and went after it. He just was not the high bidder. It appear he had a max that he was willing bid.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
Correct. The Major Varities is for another discusssion. There about 70 Major Varities that are still needed. The 1958 DDO s one of the 70, but is not one of the big boys. To name a few, 1861 Parquet Double Eagle, 1849-C Open Wreath Gold Dollar, 1973 Strawberry Leaf Large Cent, and others.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
He just added an 1861-S $5 in low grade to knock another one off of the list. Also check out the ton of Barber Half Dollars that have been upgraded! A collection purchased?
COUNTDOWN 32
1861-S $5 F15
This is second consecutive countdown coin that is not impressive at all. This must be another coin that filling a hole until a better coin becomes available. The San Francesco 1861 is not a common date. In comparison, Eliasberg specimen was a VG10. There are no certified mint grades and the finest being AU55 PCGS grade. Hansen has a higher grade coin than Eliasberg, and there is not much else to say about this coin.
There is no history on this coin.
David Akers, CoinFacts comments on the 1861-S $5:
The 1861-S is marginally more rare than the 1860-S or 1858-S and is comparable to the 1859-S. Like the latter, the 1861-S ranks in the top 10% of the $5 series in rarity having appeared at auction only 24 times in all grades in the 337 catalogues in my survey. It has never been offered above EF and I have only seen two examples at that level. Most known specimens (there aren't really very many) are only Fine or VF and this date, like all the San Francisco Mint Half Eagles of the 1858-1876 period, is grossly underrated and underpriced for its rarity.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
The 1861-s was listed on Collectors Corner.
The power of the internet - where would the coin collector market be today without it
collectorscorner.com/Products/Item.aspx?id=35676371
Looks like Mr. Hansen purchased the entire Perfection collection of Barber Half Dollars.
Perhaps the Specialist can chime in about it .
Perfection retired his Barber Quarters too. Can we make an assumption?
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
Assumption - a couple of million dollars ?
Lunch money for Mr. Hansen
DLH now owns the halves. He will catch Duckor by this time next year. I believe his current set contains 59 coins from my set.
Someone else has the MS quarters. This person had all the top examples CAC that I did not.
So he made one set that will never be equaled.
It was sad to see them go after so many years. It was very difficult to improve both sets using
All CAC coins so I decided to move on. I am still buying gem coins.
Congrats and best wishes on your new endeavor
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Charlotte Mint Special Feature
I live in North Carolina, so this branch mint has always been special to me. With the two Charlotte upgrades in the last couple weeks to the Hansen collection, this seems like to perfect time to have a mint feature. The completed basic set for this mint contains 50 items, and there are four additional items for the major varieties set. Even with this somewhat low count, only six collections have met the challenge for completion (Bass, Smithsonian, Eliasberg, Southern Collection, NC Collection and JJ Pitman). Hansen is one coin away for completing the seventh basic set. Harry W. Bass is presently honored with assembling a complete set of the highest quality gold coin collection minted at the Charlotte mint.
Presently, Hansen’s basic set is GPA rated at 59.61 and the Bass set is 59.66. Bass is leading by only 0.05 of a point. With the last coined added, 1846-C $5, and a couple more quality upgrades, Hansen should pass Bass for the all-time finest.
For the major varieties set, Hansen need the 1846-C $5, and two varieties (1849-C Open Wreath $1 and 1839/8 $2.5). Bass did not owned the neither the Wreath $1 or 1839/8 $2.5. By Hansen completing the basic set and adding just one of these two varieties, the Hansen sets should overtake Bass. If Hansen can complete the set with all three items, he will achieve an all-time prominence that no has ever been able to accomplish before (Note: According to PCGS registry there are no all-time complete Major Variety Set). Eliasberg never owned the 1849-C Open Wreath $1.
1855-C $2.50 MS64+
The survival estimate for this coin is approx. 90. There are only 5-6 in mint condition, and recently there are no coins grade MS65 or better. This coin sets on top of PCGS total population of 75 certified. The coin is 1/0 per PCGS POP report.
The PCGS price guide list as $87,500. This coin does not have any history in Coin Facts. The top previously PCGS coin is a MS63, so I think we can eliminate a possibility of an upgrade. One of the NGC MS65 certifies sold by Heritage in an April 2018 auction for $81,000. If this is the same coin, then it lost its Gem status with the crossover.
If this is the Heritage NGC coin, then coin described this way: (Does this description match the coin photo?)
Bright rose-gold surfaces appear on each side of this outstanding Liberty quarter eagle. The upper stars and the eagle's legs and talons are incompletely struck, as always. However, Liberty's curls show strong detail, as do the olive leaves. A wire rim encircles most of the obverse. As seen on all examples examined by us, a small die break, resembling a cud, shows on the reverse rim from 7-8 o'clock. Luminous luster flows over semireflective, minimally marked fields and overall eye appeal is tremendous. This coin should find a home in the finest collection or Registry Set.
Provenance: unknown
1855-C $2.50 MS64+ Near Gem ---- NGC MS65 Gem?
1840-C $5 MS64+
This is another coin that that presently does not have any PCGS certified MS65 or better specimens. This coin sets on top of PCGS total population of 135 certified at a grade of MS64+. The coin is 1/0 per PCGS POP report.
The PCGS price guide list as $120,000. This coin appeared in the Heritage Long Beach auction in June 2018. It sold for $120,000. This coin does not have any Coin Facts history, but some information can be found in the Heritage listing.
Heritage describes the coin this way:
Potential interested parties should strongly consider a premium bid, as this coin may disappear once again into strong hands for some time. This green-gold near-Gem has satiny luster and excellent design definition. Although shy of fully struck, the relief elements are far stronger than typically seen for a Charlotte product. Slight softness is evident in the hair below ER of LIBERTY, and some original planchet roughness appears in that area. A hint of pale copper-orange toning on both sides adds to the incredible eye appeal.
Provenance: An Important New York Collection
1840-C $5 MS64+ Near Gem
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
Holy crap!
@Currin Your constant updating of this thread and the history lessons it provides, makes it one of the best threads I've read here in quite some time. I can't thank you enough for the pleasure it brings me just to read it.
Keep up the good work as this is possibly the thread of the year.
Later, Paul.
Stewy, I think he underbid me on the 1C 1958 DDO. Delloy is very structured sometimes about what he pays. I know, many times I have beaten him in auctions (I just did on the 1793 Chain in Long Beach). He is not wrong for that.
My feel on the 1804 $1-while I have been taught never to pay $1 million for anything that looks warn, where is he going to get another? He should have chased the one TDN bought. Circumstances change.
Too bad early on he did not recognize the "right" coins. Now he does. BUT he will run into my crew: Black Cat, Hedgie, RSD, and someone really big at the upcoming ANA auctions. None of them like missing a coin. he's not the only game in town!
Proof Trade Dollar Feature
The Proof Trade Dollar set is describe by PCGS this way: Assembling a complete set of proof trade dollars is even more difficult than the mint state collection. The true stoppers are the ultra-rare 1884 and 1885. Of the ten 1884 specimens that were minted, PCGS had graded nine, with the highest grade being a magnificent PR67. There are only five 1885 proofs, with the most recent sale being the Eliasberg specimen which realized nearly $1 million when auctioned by Bowers and Merena.
The total number of coins needed to complete this set is only 13. As small as the set is, only six completed sets are listed in the all-time PCGS registry. The finest is a current set owned by Simpson, set rating of 66.65. It squeaks out the Hall of Fame Legend Collection with the rating of 66.64. The third place is the Louis Eliasberg's proof trade dollar set described with impeccable quality with rating of 66.11. The remaining three sets drops significantly in quality (Waldo, Norweb, and Carter).
The Hansen collection upgraded 10 of the 13 coins this week that increases the set GPA w/ top set bonus to 68.62. The upgraded included 4 top Pop 1/0 PCGS certified coins. The set will need to add the 1885 proof to reach the finest of all-time position. The finest graded specimen (PR63+ CA) is in the Simpson current finest set, so that one may be off the market. The Eliasberg specimen may be out the somewhere. This specimen is not certified, but it is estimated having a grade of MS65CA. The acquisition this coin would elevate the set to undisputable finest of all-time.
These upgrades are beautiful and some of the finest coins known for this denomination, but history for these coins are sketchy. Some of these could be from the deleted Perfection 12 set, but it is not confirmed. Can anyone share a light? Where is TDN when you him?
1874 T$1 PR66+ PCGS POP 2/0
1876 T$1, CA PR67CA PCGS POP 1/0
1880 T$1 Trade, CA PR67+ CA PCGS POP 1/0
(No picture)
1881 T$1 Trade, CA PR67+ CA PCGS POP 1/0
1882 T$1 Trade, DC PR67+ DC PCGS POP 1/1
1883 T$1 Trade, CA PR67+ CA PCGS POP 1/0
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
That 1876 TD is gorgeous, but the 1882!! OMG.
collecting one of everything is an unbelievable challenge but the quality of the collection as it currently stands is mind boggling.
I see Perfection sold his set