Yes DLH purchased it. In my opinion it was an amazing set, all CAC. If I were DLH, I would have left it alone and
not added his non CAC coins to it as the set already had the highest score. I was sad to sell it, but I could not improve it
further and decided to move on. I guess my feeling are similar to Bruce selling his MS Trades to BC. We are all still
avid and addicted coin collectors. At least I am. We are still looking, buying...........................
I have pretty much done with sets. I have no regrets as one cannot look back. I have a certain budget to spend on coins.
Without working on sets, I am now free to buy beautiful coins of any series.
Without the passion of the hunt and acquisition, coin collecting is pretty boring. Not much worse than having all your funds tied up in a set that you can’t improve. So yes, I get it
Yes, so true. I think it also depends on one's budget or funds. Many people can keep what they have and continue to
buy. I was not intending to sell sets but it just happened. Will I sell more? I do not think so, but you never know!
I just paid 84K for a LIB Nickel. I still cannot believe it. But if you read my notes on that set I am not upset about it.
Life and coins are like chess. Look at Bruce, he could have bought the dollar at the sale but wound up purchasing it afterwards! So you never know your next move!
I entered my last two sets last week, my Bust Halves which I have had for a long time, and a second set of PR Morgan's, which I have also had for years from building my top set. I could not part with amazing dupes so they turned into a second set.
DLH has gotten much smarter. I was similar to him in a much smaller way in the beginning. I think he is smart buying the
RIGHT sets. His budget is high so he can buy great sets AND look for many other coins.
I learned fast. I met JA many years ago and that put me on the right track. Like Bruce and many others we only buy CAC coins. Regardless if you are a believer, it makes the search harder and more difficult. There are enough CAC great coins to
buy so why not?
Yes I am aware of that. Not sure what happened. PCGS is going to look into it after the dust clears from the set
deadline. I would like to keep it also. It also happened to one other set.
@Stooge said: @Currin Your constant updating of this thread and the history lessons it provides, makes it one of the best threads I've read here in quite some time. I can't thank you enough for the pleasure it brings me just to read it.
Keep up the good work as this is possibly the thread of the year.
Thank You. I enjoy research. It is interesting to me to research the significant new additions and upgrades. Once I have researched, I enjoy sharing.
@GoBust said:
I think the 1817/4 is still on the want list. Though c'mon to find in decent grade with almost half the coins damaged in some way.
The 1817/4 half dollar is on the Major Varities list. DLH have the 1817 and 1817/3. There are about 70 coins still remaining on the Major Varities list. I do not plan to post that list until it gets down to about 35-40.
Boy, would I like to own the last coin needed.......
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
The Barber Half Dollar Basic set is described by PCGS this way: Here’s another set that is filled—and we mean FILLED—with condition rarities. As you look up and down the columns of the population report, you’ll find that many issues in this series show a population in MS65 or better of two coins, three coins, two coins, four coins...you get the idea. If you want to assemble a spectacular set of Barber half dollars, now would be a great time. The sale of the Eliasberg collection and other fine holdings has brought many outstanding examples on the market for the first time in years.
This is the second complete set that DLH purchased from the Perfection Collection in the past few weeks. In addition, DLH purchased the Proof Trade Dollar that was featured a few days ago. The Perfection Collection sets usually composed of the best and highest graded CAC coins available. The All-Time Finest Barber Half Dollar Set based on PCGS rating system is the Dr. and Mrs. Steven L. Duckor Collection, set rating of 66.72. The others in the top 5 are: Hansen, Perfection, Shireman, and Friend. The seventh place set is the Louis Eliasberg's set described with these expect comments: The Eliasberg circulation strike Barber half dollars is one of the finest sets ever assembled. (Note: by today’s standards, not in the top 5) Many of the coins were purchased by JM Clapp and John Clapp directly from the mints in the year of issue. There were many "finest known" examples in the Eliasberg set. Highlights include the 1895-O in MS66, 1896-O in MS66, 1897-O in MS66, 1897-S in MS66, 1899-O in MS66, 1900-O in MS66, 1900-S in MS67, and 1904-O in MS66.
With this purchased, the Hansen Collection upgraded 59 of 73 coins according to a Perfection posting. Most if not all were CACs. The upgraded included 15 Top Pop 1/0 PCGS certified coins! Another 17 upgrades are tied with this finest known. With these upgrades, the rating for the set is this 66.66, only 0.6 points behind Duckor. Therefore, the Hansen Barber Half Dollars Basic Set is in good position to overtake Duckor in the near future for All-Time Finest Set. According to Perfection thoughts… he will catch Duckor by this time next year. My thoughts… maybe before.
These upgrades are beautiful and some of the finest coins known for this denomination. There are so many that I will limit to just 5 of my favorite coins.
1908-O 50C MS68 CAC PCGS POP 1/0
1892-S 50C MS67+ CAC PCGS POP 1/0
1899 50C MS67+ CAC PCGS POP 1/0
1900-S 50C MS67+ CAC PCGS 1/0
1909-O 50C MS67+ CAC PCGS 1/0
Note: There are another 10 PCGS TOP POP 1/0 added from the Perfection Collection
Currin
Nice posts. Thanks
Yes DLH used 59 of my coins. all Cac
He will catch Duckor. I could not unless I bought non cac which I,would not do.
Duckor had 21 non cac but they might not all have been sent as cac was new back then.
Also the pcgs registry score is all wrong for many sets.
I emailed them and offered to help revamp things but no interest.
The Barber halves are a good example. The 1904 s is by far not the rarest coin in the top
Grade but yet it has a score of 8.00. There are three in 67
From memory there are seventeen other havles, that are,MUCH RARER.
They are all pop 1 with none finer. I think I,owned most of,them.
Sure overalll the 1904:is the rarest but not in 67.
The scoring should be changed not manually like it is now but programmatically.
There’ should be multiple scores,for,each coin based on thirty years of pop info.
@specialist said:
Stewy, I think he underbid me on the 1C 1958 DDO. Delloy is very structured sometimes about what he pays. I know, many times I have beaten him in auctions (I just did on the 1793 Chain in Long Beach). He is not wrong for that.
My feel on the 1804 $1-while I have been taught never to pay $1 million for anything that looks warn, where is he going to get another? He should have chased the one TDN bought. Circumstances change.
Too bad early on he did not recognize the "right" coins. Now he does. BUT he will run into my crew: Black Cat, Hedgie, RSD, and someone really big at the upcoming ANA auctions. None of them like missing a coin. he's not the only game in town!
Indeed, we were the underbidder on the 1958 DDO. While it's the only hole that DLH has in his Lincoln Variety set, we did have an established value where we stopped on it...maybe we should have gone another increment or 2 in hindsight, but it's okay. We were glad to see Laura win it.
The reasons we jumped on this 1804 $1 was that it is likely the last Class 1 1804 $1 to enter the market for quite a few years (the others are in strong-ish hands), and at $1M less than it's previous records, it still seems like a great deal. It was a value play on a rare coin.
I don't like to speak for DLH, but I know that he enjoys the competition of other collectors and we're glad that we're not the only folks collecting. There are a lot of great coins in the world, and it makes the hunt even more fun when there's competition...
John Brush President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com email: John@davidlawrence.com 2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
@tradedollarnut said:
I used to be more impressed by top pops....until I saw what a decade of gradeflation did to my seated dollar set.
Now I’m impressed by coins that have stood the test of time - were seen as wonder coins fifty years ago, 20 years ago and today
This right here is the value of CAC. Gradeflation by many of the top registry sets being re-graded is discouraging and I think it increases the value of coins that have garnered the sticker...
John Brush President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com email: John@davidlawrence.com 2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
@STEWARTBLAYNUMIS said:
Looks like Mr. Hansen purchased the entire Perfection collection of Barber Half Dollars.
Perhaps the Specialist can chime in about it .
The cat is out of the bag now.
Indeed we purchased the Proof Barber Quarter and Barber Half sets as well as the Circulation Strike Barber Halves. There were a number of other coins (and smaller sets) included in the transaction as well, but these were the real highlights.
I've known Mr. Perfection for quite a few years now and consider him a friend. It was an honor to work with him on transacting several of his top quality registry sets to Mr. Hansen's collections.
John Brush President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com email: John@davidlawrence.com 2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
@golden said:
He just added an 1861-S $5 in low grade to knock another one off of the list.
Indeed, we had to get the hole filled...still looking for a nicer one, but it interestingly proves what an underrated date the 1861-S $5 really is...
John Brush President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com email: John@davidlawrence.com 2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
By the way, I'm sorry for the multiple posts here...Just trying to catch up with replies that might seem semi-relevant.
For what it's worth, Mr. Hansen has really enjoyed reading the posts here. I encouraged him to post if he had a chance. He probably won't be chiming in, but he was supportive of my answering whatever questions for him that I can (regarding the collection).
John Brush President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com email: John@davidlawrence.com 2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
@JBatDavidLawrence said:
By the way, I'm sorry for the multiple posts here...Just trying to catch up with replies that might seem semi-relevant.
For what it's worth, Mr. Hansen has really enjoyed reading the posts here. I encouraged him to post if he had a chance. He probably won't be chiming in, but he was supportive of my answering whatever questions for him that I can (regarding the collection).
Awesome!...I am Rooting for him and Enjoy this thread (numismatic history in the making)...it has the feel of a real life ‘Brewster’s Millions’ and I Love that movie
@JBatDavidLawrence said:
By the way, I'm sorry for the multiple posts here...Just trying to catch up with replies that might seem semi-relevant.
For what it's worth, Mr. Hansen has really enjoyed reading the posts here. I encouraged him to post if he had a chance. He probably won't be chiming in, but he was supportive of my answering whatever questions for him that I can (regarding the collection).
very much appreciate both John and Mr. Hansen (through John) chiming in. It is very informative and I know is not something you have to do so-----thank you!
Ugh go Bust, ever hear of a guy named Simpson??? I can factually tell you, in the big girl word of rarities, Mr Simpson has far more $2 million+ coins then anyone-ever. Just most people do not know what he has. Nothing drives me more crazy when people make comments like that (call me spoiled or what ever). And Mr Simpson is still around-he just has not seen much he likes.
@specialist said:
Ugh go Bust, ever hear of a guy named Simpson??? I can factually tell you, in the big girl word of rarities, Mr Simpson has far more $2 million+ coins then anyone-ever. Just most people do not know what he has. Nothing drives me more crazy when people make comments like that (call me spoiled or what ever). And Mr Simpson is still around-he just has not seen much he likes.
I did agree that he has some great rarities, A quick look at the Million Dollar set can confirm what you are saying. I think Simpson and Hansen are worlds apart in what they are achieving. Hansen is on the Eliasberg Quest and Simpson is very picky at aquiring only the best and rarest. I think both can live in the same world. .
You are correct of course. Apologies to Mr. Simpson. I was referring to regular issue US coins. Simpson has many fantastic coins and unbelievable sets. His patterns are beyond the moon. His Amazonian set is a national treasure. I was really happy to obtain a 1792 disme pattern from his set a few years ago, and deeply appreciated the opportunity. He has stellar key rarities. My comment should be contained to complete circulation strike coins from 1792 (half dime) to 1964.
And your type set is perhaps the single best set of superb quality coins in US history. Oliver, your 1795 eagle to me is arguably the most beautiful US coin in existence.
I really didn't mean to exclude the other exceptional collectors out there, quite the opposite I am a huge fan.
Which would you rather have Bruce's Dollar set or Bob's Amazonian patterns given a choice? Enjoy the thought.
As a very small-time collector I really appreciate what Mr. Hansen is going to accomplish...from a business perspective I also admire his ability to set limits on what he is willing to bid for individual coins...he's not just throwing money around...DLH made his fortune by seeing value in real estate that others couldn't...and he is applying this same intelligence to his collecting...sure we all make mistakes...underbidding or overbidding...but if you're on the right side the majority of the time...the mistakes can be corrected...
With just over a month from now, the 1913 Liberty nickel will go on the auction block. I have attached a recent article that places the value a $5M. Sounds high? What do you think it will sell for and who do you think are the big players will be beside Simpson and Hansen?
@JBatDavidLawrence said:
By the way, I'm sorry for the multiple posts here...Just trying to catch up with replies that might seem semi-relevant.
No need to apologize. I can't speak for anyone else, but this may be the greatest thread in CU history. I am hanging onto every word. DLH is building the greatest collection in numismatic history and we're all in this thread for the ride!
DLH is building an amazing collection. I am happy to help him when I can, not for the money but for the satisfaction
of helping someone do what they love. DLH has made many mistakes during his first year or so of buying . I did as well to a much smaller extent. I am sure DLH would have not spent perhaps 20 M on certain coins if he knows what he knows now.
Many dealers are snakes or as I call them oily. I was too trusting at first. Within six months though I figured many things out, met good people and also sold some coins. The best way to learn anything field is to sell what you bought. That can be an eye opener. Meeting John A was one of the best things I did early on.
The over grading, cracking and so forth is absurd. I have been in many businesses over the years. None compare to what goes in with coins. However we play the game and learn to succeed.
You cannot submit a diamond to GIA ten ten dimes and have the grade change. Maybe you can once in awhile, but it would rarely be worth it as the spread is not enough. Yes I realize grading is somewhat subjective.
Sometimes companies have to change their operation, cut costs and do other things to to generate profits. Grading and more grading is not the answer. It has hurt the field. Thankfully many major buyers only want CAC.
For the CAC bashers reading this you are sadly mistaken. Sure, it sounds good to buy the coin and not the holder.
but in reality that is not easily possible for most of the larger coin buyers like myself. I cannot grade. Sure, over all these years I have learned plenty but not enough to buy the coin and not the holder. That fact the CAC bids on every coin gives lots of people peace of mind. Also no one can change the market. Regardless of what we think, the prices for most CAC coins keeps increasing over non CAC. The market dictates.
I could go on and on.
Sorry for going off topic. I sold DLH some of my favorite coins. They fit his goals more than mine. One example
is his 1864 25 MS 68. It is a gem and in a rattler and of course CAC. There are only two no motto quarters in 68 and this one is special.
I also sold him perhaps five other very special quarters. He is building the top set so they belong with him.
Yes I sold DLH a few sets. They were not just any sets but all CAC and the majority of the coins are really nice.
The sets compare to the ones he purchased from Bruce, and Laura.
Unless you have built a set, have money and do not care about losing, you cannot know what it takes.
I am SURE that on the Barber Half set, that I lost 100K while building it. Even if I had a top graded coin,
if I found another with better eye appeal I would of course have to have it. Usually I would have to take a loss
on the coin I already owned. I did keep around ten or so amazing dupes.
They way to keep to a budget which I and even DLH do, is to try and set harder parameters on coins you are looking for. These days I try to buy, CAC, Eye appeal, value and a few other things with every coin.
DLH passed on the variety for value reasons. He has seen that the amount you can spend on nice coins!
It is endless.
If I were DLH I would upgrade with mostly CAC coins only. This would somewhat limit his buying, (sorry dealers)
I would also sell perhaps 25% of his current holdings as he upgrades. I believes he keeps many duplicate coins
now. However , with John Brush's help it seems like DLH is going to auction some of his excess inventory.
They had one sale so far with more planned. BTW JB is one of the most honorable people in the coin
business. Over the years I have spent a considerable amount with DLRC, pre and post JF.
JB buys coins for what he feels is a fair price, makes a reasonable profit and sells them.
For what it is worth, I have sold many dupes and also other coins as my taste changed. I lost the least
on coins that came from DLRC!
@Perfection said:
DLH is building an amazing collection. I am happy to help him when I can, not for the money but for the satisfaction
of helping someone do what they love. DLH has made many mistakes during his first year or so of buying . I did as well to a much smaller extent. I am sure DLH would have not spent perhaps 20 M on certain coins if he knows what he knows now.
Many dealers are snakes or as I call them oily. I was too trusting at first. Within six months though I figured many things out, met good people and also sold some coins. The best way to learn anything field is to sell what you bought. That can be an eye opener. Meeting John A was one of the best things I did early on.
The over grading, cracking and so forth is absurd. I have been in many businesses over the years. None compare to what goes in with coins. However we play the game and learn to succeed.
You cannot submit a diamond to GIA ten ten dimes and have the grade change. Maybe you can once in awhile, but it would rarely be worth it as the spread is not enough. Yes I realize grading is somewhat subjective.
Sometimes companies have to change their operation, cut costs and do other things to to generate profits. Grading and more grading is not the answer. It has hurt the field. Thankfully many major buyers only want CAC.
For the CAC bashers reading this you are sadly mistaken. Sure, it sounds good to buy the coin and not the holder.
but in reality that is not easily possible for most of the larger coin buyers like myself. I cannot grade. Sure, over all these years I have learned plenty but not enough to buy the coin and not the holder. That fact the CAC bids on every coin gives lots of people peace of mind. Also no one can change the market. Regardless of what we think, the prices for most CAC coins keeps increasing over non CAC. The market dictates.
I could go on and on.
Sorry for going off topic. I sold DLH some of my favorite coins. They fit his goals more than mine. One example
is his 1864 25 MS 68. It is a gem and in a rattler and of course CAC. There are only two no motto quarters in 68 and this one is special.
I also sold him perhaps five other very special quarters. He is building the top set so they belong with him.
Yes I sold DLH a few sets. They were not just any sets but all CAC and the majority of the coins are really nice.
The sets compare to the ones he purchased from Bruce, and Laura.
Unless you have built a set, have money and do not care about losing, you cannot know what it takes.
I am SURE that on the Barber Half set, that I lost 100K while building it. Even if I had a top graded coin,
if I found another with better eye appeal I would of course have to have it. Usually I would have to take a loss
on the coin I already owned. I did keep around ten or so amazing dupes.
They way to keep to a budget which I and even DLH do, is to try and set harder parameters on coins you are looking for. These days I try to buy, CAC, Eye appeal, value and a few other things with every coin.
DLH passed on the variety for value reasons. He has seen that the amount you can spend on nice coins!
It is endless.
If I were DLH I would upgrade with mostly CAC coins only. This would somewhat limit his buying, (sorry dealers)
I would also sell perhaps 25% of his current holdings as he upgrades. I believes he keeps many duplicate coins
now. However , with John Brush's help it seems like DLH is going to auction some of his excess inventory.
They had one sale so far with more planned. BTW JB is one of the most honorable people in the coin
business. Over the years I have spent a considerable amount with DLRC, pre and post JF.
JB buys coins for what he feels is a fair price, makes a reasonable profit and sells them.
For what it is worth, I have sold many dupes and also other coins as my taste changed. I lost the least
on coins that came from DLRC!
Love this post. So many great observations. One that stands out is that one of the best ways to learn is to sell at the certain points. I have learned so much selling over the years. Very few of the great collectors never sold (Pittman is one of the few I can think of). Great post!
Thanks Perfections. You are one at the top of the pyramid in this hobby, or if prefer business. You are pleasantly different than many of your peers. You and TDN are willing to share insights of great substance. Many of your peers will only commit, if they do, in a not so constructive way. Thanks so much, and hope you keep watching. I think it only going to get better.
There have been a considerable discussion about CACs. I was looking at the finest Liberty Seated Dollar set that Hansen acquired from TDN. I was surprise that only one coin in the entire set was CAC. Hansen #2 set have eight CACs. Thinking that maybe the CAC was not updated in the comment field, I reviewed the Bruce Morelan retired set. That set had some detail description in the comments, but also did not indicated any of these coins being CAC. Is this true, these great coins do not qualify for CAs?
@Currin said:
There have been a considerable discussion about CACs. I was looking at the finest Liberty Seated Dollar set that Hansen acquired from TDN. I was surprise that only one coin in the entire set was CAC. Hansen #2 set have eight CACs. Thinking that maybe the CAC was not updated in the comment field, I reviewed the Bruce Morelan retired set. That set had some detail description in the comments, but also did not indicated any of these coins being CAC. Is this true, these great coins do not qualify for CAs?
If I remember correctly, TDN had commented in a thread a while ago that nearly every coin both in the Seated and Trade dollar sets were CAC'd and after a few downgrades every coin was CAC approved.
I believe all of Bruce’s and Laura’s sets are all CAC.
I believe in all my sets all coins are Cac except for three.
Also my second Morgan set has I think four non cac coins. I do not care about the score or the actual grade of the coins. They are beautiful and deserve to be in the set.
Lets face reality. Most coins that do not pass CAC are either very weak for the grade or not the grade. More and more people agree with this. It’s taken ten years.
Why are many smart people downgrading coins. They would rather own a 66 or 66+ CAC than a non CAC 67. Are they smart?
Who cares. That is what they choose to do.
I have posted the following many times:
CAC is always correct. They see something they do not like when they do not sticker a coin. Is the coin still the grade is the question. Some people say it is. I,on the other hand say, who cares! Are there not enough CAC coins to buy to even worry about the others?
Every seated and trade dollar in my sets were CAC ...with the exception of the 1853 in MS66 that was upgraded and hadn’t been in since. No doubt in my mind it would CAC at the new grade as it was always under graded.
Very few were bought that way - we just happened to seek out the finest possible coin for the grade in almost all instances.
I do own some early dollars that aren’t CAC...specifically the 1798 Small Eagle in MS63 ( JA is wrong about that one) and the 1801 in MS65 (he’s probably right but it’s still a great coin). They are each the finest for the date that I’ve seen
@tradedollarnut said:
Every seated and trade dollar in my sets were CAC ...with the exception of the 1853 in MS66 that was upgraded and hadn’t been in since. No doubt in my mind it would CAC at the new grade as it was always under graded.
Very few were bought that way - we just happened to seek out the finest possible coin for the grade in almost all instances.
Thanks TDN.. Why is the 1870CC missing from your retired set? I hope it something that can be fixed.
I have posted the following many times:
CAC is always correct. They see something they do not like when they do not sticker a coin. Is the coin still the grade is the question. Some people say it is. I,on the other hand say, who cares! Are there not enough CAC coins to buy to even worry about the others?
CAC is obviously not always correct. I don’t know anyone that actually thinks that’s true. Also, downgrading coins to get them to sticker just tells you that simply because a coin isn’t beaned doesn’t mean it’s a bad coin. If you are trying to collect the finest known coins, you may have to live with some of them being generously graded.
It makes much more sense to think about getting a great coin for the price paid, rather than great for the grade. Getting a coin downgraded doesn’t make it any cheaper.
@tradedollarnut said:
I do own some early dollars that aren’t CAC...specifically the 1798 Small Eagle in MS63 ( JA is wrong about that one) and the 1801 in MS65 (he’s probably right but it’s still a great coin). They are each the finest for the date that I’ve seen
The bookends are unbelievable. You have plans to fill the other proof holes? That would be great to see.
@tradedollarnut said:
Every seated and trade dollar in my sets were CAC ...with the exception of the 1853 in MS66 that was upgraded and hadn’t been in since. No doubt in my mind it would CAC at the new grade as it was always under graded.
Very few were bought that way - we just happened to seek out the finest possible coin for the grade in almost all instances.
Thanks TDN.. Why is the 1870CC missing from your retired set? I hope it something that can be fixed.
I had a PCGS MS63 CAC and sold that when I bought an NGC64...which was a mistake since it didn’t CAC. I sold the set and they sold off that coin before I bought the set back
I have downgraded coins a few times to get a sticker or a cross - but more often to have the grade on the holder to match my personal assessment of the grade.
@tradedollarnut said:
I do own some early dollars that aren’t CAC...specifically the 1798 Small Eagle in MS63 ( JA is wrong about that one) and the 1801 in MS65 (he’s probably right but it’s still a great coin). They are each the finest for the date that I’ve seen
The bookends are unbelievable. You have plans to fill the other proof holes? That would be great to see.
Not really. The market and I disagree on what non officially commissioned novodels are worth
@Perfection said:
DLH is building an amazing collection. I am happy to help him when I can, not for the money but for the satisfaction
of helping someone do what they love. DLH has made many mistakes during his first year or so of buying . I did as well to a much smaller extent. I am sure DLH would have not spent perhaps 20 M on certain coins if he knows what he knows now.
Many dealers are snakes or as I call them oily. I was too trusting at first. Within six months though I figured many things out, met good people and also sold some coins. The best way to learn anything field is to sell what you bought. That can be an eye opener. Meeting John A was one of the best things I did early on.
The over grading, cracking and so forth is absurd. I have been in many businesses over the years. None compare to what goes in with coins. However we play the game and learn to succeed.
You cannot submit a diamond to GIA ten ten dimes and have the grade change. Maybe you can once in awhile, but it would rarely be worth it as the spread is not enough. Yes I realize grading is somewhat subjective.
Sometimes companies have to change their operation, cut costs and do other things to to generate profits. Grading and more grading is not the answer. It has hurt the field. Thankfully many major buyers only want CAC.
For the CAC bashers reading this you are sadly mistaken. Sure, it sounds good to buy the coin and not the holder.
but in reality that is not easily possible for most of the larger coin buyers like myself. I cannot grade. Sure, over all these years I have learned plenty but not enough to buy the coin and not the holder. That fact the CAC bids on every coin gives lots of people peace of mind. Also no one can change the market. Regardless of what we think, the prices for most CAC coins keeps increasing over non CAC. The market dictates.
I could go on and on.
Sorry for going off topic. I sold DLH some of my favorite coins. They fit his goals more than mine. One example
is his 1864 25 MS 68. It is a gem and in a rattler and of course CAC. There are only two no motto quarters in 68 and this one is special.
I also sold him perhaps five other very special quarters. He is building the top set so they belong with him.
Yes I sold DLH a few sets. They were not just any sets but all CAC and the majority of the coins are really nice.
The sets compare to the ones he purchased from Bruce, and Laura.
Unless you have built a set, have money and do not care about losing, you cannot know what it takes.
I am SURE that on the Barber Half set, that I lost 100K while building it. Even if I had a top graded coin,
if I found another with better eye appeal I would of course have to have it. Usually I would have to take a loss
on the coin I already owned. I did keep around ten or so amazing dupes.
They way to keep to a budget which I and even DLH do, is to try and set harder parameters on coins you are looking for. These days I try to buy, CAC, Eye appeal, value and a few other things with every coin.
DLH passed on the variety for value reasons. He has seen that the amount you can spend on nice coins!
It is endless.
If I were DLH I would upgrade with mostly CAC coins only. This would somewhat limit his buying, (sorry dealers)
I would also sell perhaps 25% of his current holdings as he upgrades. I believes he keeps many duplicate coins
now. However , with John Brush's help it seems like DLH is going to auction some of his excess inventory.
They had one sale so far with more planned. BTW JB is one of the most honorable people in the coin
business. Over the years I have spent a considerable amount with DLRC, pre and post JF.
JB buys coins for what he feels is a fair price, makes a reasonable profit and sells them.
For what it is worth, I have sold many dupes and also other coins as my taste changed. I lost the least
on coins that came from DLRC!
Love this post. So many great observations. One that stands out is that one of the best ways to learn is to sell at the certain points. I have learned so much selling over the years. Very few of the great collectors never sold (Pittman is one of the few I can think of). Great post!
Indeed. A terrific post. Straight shooter
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Comments
Yes, from the looks of things he sold multiple sets.
Andrew Blinkiewicz-Heritage
Yes DLH purchased it. In my opinion it was an amazing set, all CAC. If I were DLH, I would have left it alone and
not added his non CAC coins to it as the set already had the highest score. I was sad to sell it, but I could not improve it
further and decided to move on. I guess my feeling are similar to Bruce selling his MS Trades to BC. We are all still
avid and addicted coin collectors. At least I am. We are still looking, buying...........................
I have pretty much done with sets. I have no regrets as one cannot look back. I have a certain budget to spend on coins.
Without working on sets, I am now free to buy beautiful coins of any series.
Without the passion of the hunt and acquisition, coin collecting is pretty boring. Not much worse than having all your funds tied up in a set that you can’t improve. So yes, I get it
Yes, so true. I think it also depends on one's budget or funds. Many people can keep what they have and continue to
buy. I was not intending to sell sets but it just happened. Will I sell more? I do not think so, but you never know!
I just paid 84K for a LIB Nickel. I still cannot believe it. But if you read my notes on that set I am not upset about it.
Life and coins are like chess. Look at Bruce, he could have bought the dollar at the sale but wound up purchasing it afterwards! So you never know your next move!
I entered my last two sets last week, my Bust Halves which I have had for a long time, and a second set of PR Morgan's, which I have also had for years from building my top set. I could not part with amazing dupes so they turned into a second set.
DLH has gotten much smarter. I was similar to him in a much smaller way in the beginning. I think he is smart buying the
RIGHT sets. His budget is high so he can buy great sets AND look for many other coins.
I learned fast. I met JA many years ago and that put me on the right track. Like Bruce and many others we only buy CAC coins. Regardless if you are a believer, it makes the search harder and more difficult. There are enough CAC great coins to
buy so why not?
Why did you delete P12? I would love to still be able veiw it.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
Yes I am aware of that. Not sure what happened. PCGS is going to look into it after the dust clears from the set
deadline. I would like to keep it also. It also happened to one other set.
Thank You. I enjoy research. It is interesting to me to research the significant new additions and upgrades. Once I have researched, I enjoy sharing.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
I think the 1817/4 is still on the want list. Though c'mon to find in decent grade with almost half the coins damaged in some way.
Tough to find in decent grade. Typ
The 1817/4 half dollar is on the Major Varities list. DLH have the 1817 and 1817/3. There are about 70 coins still remaining on the Major Varities list. I do not plan to post that list until it gets down to about 35-40.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
Boy, would I like to own the last coin needed.......
Barber Half Dollar Feature
The Barber Half Dollar Basic set is described by PCGS this way: Here’s another set that is filled—and we mean FILLED—with condition rarities. As you look up and down the columns of the population report, you’ll find that many issues in this series show a population in MS65 or better of two coins, three coins, two coins, four coins...you get the idea. If you want to assemble a spectacular set of Barber half dollars, now would be a great time. The sale of the Eliasberg collection and other fine holdings has brought many outstanding examples on the market for the first time in years.
This is the second complete set that DLH purchased from the Perfection Collection in the past few weeks. In addition, DLH purchased the Proof Trade Dollar that was featured a few days ago. The Perfection Collection sets usually composed of the best and highest graded CAC coins available. The All-Time Finest Barber Half Dollar Set based on PCGS rating system is the Dr. and Mrs. Steven L. Duckor Collection, set rating of 66.72. The others in the top 5 are: Hansen, Perfection, Shireman, and Friend. The seventh place set is the Louis Eliasberg's set described with these expect comments: The Eliasberg circulation strike Barber half dollars is one of the finest sets ever assembled. (Note: by today’s standards, not in the top 5) Many of the coins were purchased by JM Clapp and John Clapp directly from the mints in the year of issue. There were many "finest known" examples in the Eliasberg set. Highlights include the 1895-O in MS66, 1896-O in MS66, 1897-O in MS66, 1897-S in MS66, 1899-O in MS66, 1900-O in MS66, 1900-S in MS67, and 1904-O in MS66.
With this purchased, the Hansen Collection upgraded 59 of 73 coins according to a Perfection posting. Most if not all were CACs. The upgraded included 15 Top Pop 1/0 PCGS certified coins! Another 17 upgrades are tied with this finest known. With these upgrades, the rating for the set is this 66.66, only 0.6 points behind Duckor. Therefore, the Hansen Barber Half Dollars Basic Set is in good position to overtake Duckor in the near future for All-Time Finest Set. According to Perfection thoughts… he will catch Duckor by this time next year. My thoughts… maybe before.
These upgrades are beautiful and some of the finest coins known for this denomination. There are so many that I will limit to just 5 of my favorite coins.
1908-O 50C MS68 CAC PCGS POP 1/0
1892-S 50C MS67+ CAC PCGS POP 1/0
1899 50C MS67+ CAC PCGS POP 1/0
1900-S 50C MS67+ CAC PCGS 1/0
1909-O 50C MS67+ CAC PCGS 1/0
Note: There are another 10 PCGS TOP POP 1/0 added from the Perfection Collection
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
I used to be more impressed by top pops....until I saw what a decade of gradeflation did to my seated dollar set.
Now I’m impressed by coins that have stood the test of time - were seen as wonder coins fifty years ago, 20 years ago and today
I would sell it for one hundred billion dollars
2 Brazilian Dollars.
Don't quote me on that.
Currin
Nice posts. Thanks
Yes DLH used 59 of my coins. all Cac
He will catch Duckor. I could not unless I bought non cac which I,would not do.
Duckor had 21 non cac but they might not all have been sent as cac was new back then.
Also the pcgs registry score is all wrong for many sets.
I emailed them and offered to help revamp things but no interest.
The Barber halves are a good example. The 1904 s is by far not the rarest coin in the top
Grade but yet it has a score of 8.00. There are three in 67
From memory there are seventeen other havles, that are,MUCH RARER.
They are all pop 1 with none finer. I think I,owned most of,them.
Sure overalll the 1904:is the rarest but not in 67.
The scoring should be changed not manually like it is now but programmatically.
There’ should be multiple scores,for,each coin based on thirty years of pop info.
Indeed, we were the underbidder on the 1958 DDO. While it's the only hole that DLH has in his Lincoln Variety set, we did have an established value where we stopped on it...maybe we should have gone another increment or 2 in hindsight, but it's okay. We were glad to see Laura win it.
The reasons we jumped on this 1804 $1 was that it is likely the last Class 1 1804 $1 to enter the market for quite a few years (the others are in strong-ish hands), and at $1M less than it's previous records, it still seems like a great deal. It was a value play on a rare coin.
I don't like to speak for DLH, but I know that he enjoys the competition of other collectors and we're glad that we're not the only folks collecting. There are a lot of great coins in the world, and it makes the hunt even more fun when there's competition...
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
This right here is the value of CAC. Gradeflation by many of the top registry sets being re-graded is discouraging and I think it increases the value of coins that have garnered the sticker...
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
The cat is out of the bag now.
Indeed we purchased the Proof Barber Quarter and Barber Half sets as well as the Circulation Strike Barber Halves. There were a number of other coins (and smaller sets) included in the transaction as well, but these were the real highlights.
I've known Mr. Perfection for quite a few years now and consider him a friend. It was an honor to work with him on transacting several of his top quality registry sets to Mr. Hansen's collections.
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
Indeed, we had to get the hole filled...still looking for a nicer one, but it interestingly proves what an underrated date the 1861-S $5 really is...
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
By the way, I'm sorry for the multiple posts here...Just trying to catch up with replies that might seem semi-relevant.
For what it's worth, Mr. Hansen has really enjoyed reading the posts here. I encouraged him to post if he had a chance. He probably won't be chiming in, but he was supportive of my answering whatever questions for him that I can (regarding the collection).
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
Awesome!...I am Rooting for him and Enjoy this thread (numismatic history in the making)...it has the feel of a real life ‘Brewster’s Millions’ and I Love that movie
very much appreciate both John and Mr. Hansen (through John) chiming in. It is very informative and I know is not something you have to do so-----thank you!
I very much enjoy watching his collection grow.
Clearly already the best collection in the history of the United States IMHO. Mr. Hansen's only true competitor is the Smithsonian Institution.
Fun! Congrat's DLH.
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
Ugh go Bust, ever hear of a guy named Simpson??? I can factually tell you, in the big girl word of rarities, Mr Simpson has far more $2 million+ coins then anyone-ever. Just most people do not know what he has. Nothing drives me more crazy when people make comments like that (call me spoiled or what ever). And Mr Simpson is still around-he just has not seen much he likes.
I did agree that he has some great rarities, A quick look at the Million Dollar set can confirm what you are saying. I think Simpson and Hansen are worlds apart in what they are achieving. Hansen is on the Eliasberg Quest and Simpson is very picky at aquiring only the best and rarest. I think both can live in the same world. .
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
You are correct of course. Apologies to Mr. Simpson. I was referring to regular issue US coins. Simpson has many fantastic coins and unbelievable sets. His patterns are beyond the moon. His Amazonian set is a national treasure. I was really happy to obtain a 1792 disme pattern from his set a few years ago, and deeply appreciated the opportunity. He has stellar key rarities. My comment should be contained to complete circulation strike coins from 1792 (half dime) to 1964.
And your type set is perhaps the single best set of superb quality coins in US history. Oliver, your 1795 eagle to me is arguably the most beautiful US coin in existence.
I really didn't mean to exclude the other exceptional collectors out there, quite the opposite I am a huge fan.
Which would you rather have Bruce's Dollar set or Bob's Amazonian patterns given a choice? Enjoy the thought.
As a very small-time collector I really appreciate what Mr. Hansen is going to accomplish...from a business perspective I also admire his ability to set limits on what he is willing to bid for individual coins...he's not just throwing money around...DLH made his fortune by seeing value in real estate that others couldn't...and he is applying this same intelligence to his collecting...sure we all make mistakes...underbidding or overbidding...but if you're on the right side the majority of the time...the mistakes can be corrected...
With just over a month from now, the 1913 Liberty nickel will go on the auction block. I have attached a recent article that places the value a $5M. Sounds high? What do you think it will sell for and who do you think are the big players will be beside Simpson and Hansen?
https://www.thesprucecrafts.com/1913-liberty-nickel-768780
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
No need to apologize. I can't speak for anyone else, but this may be the greatest thread in CU history. I am hanging onto every word. DLH is building the greatest collection in numismatic history and we're all in this thread for the ride!
DLH is building an amazing collection. I am happy to help him when I can, not for the money but for the satisfaction
of helping someone do what they love. DLH has made many mistakes during his first year or so of buying . I did as well to a much smaller extent. I am sure DLH would have not spent perhaps 20 M on certain coins if he knows what he knows now.
Many dealers are snakes or as I call them oily. I was too trusting at first. Within six months though I figured many things out, met good people and also sold some coins. The best way to learn anything field is to sell what you bought. That can be an eye opener. Meeting John A was one of the best things I did early on.
The over grading, cracking and so forth is absurd. I have been in many businesses over the years. None compare to what goes in with coins. However we play the game and learn to succeed.
You cannot submit a diamond to GIA ten ten dimes and have the grade change. Maybe you can once in awhile, but it would rarely be worth it as the spread is not enough. Yes I realize grading is somewhat subjective.
Sometimes companies have to change their operation, cut costs and do other things to to generate profits. Grading and more grading is not the answer. It has hurt the field. Thankfully many major buyers only want CAC.
For the CAC bashers reading this you are sadly mistaken. Sure, it sounds good to buy the coin and not the holder.
but in reality that is not easily possible for most of the larger coin buyers like myself. I cannot grade. Sure, over all these years I have learned plenty but not enough to buy the coin and not the holder. That fact the CAC bids on every coin gives lots of people peace of mind. Also no one can change the market. Regardless of what we think, the prices for most CAC coins keeps increasing over non CAC. The market dictates.
I could go on and on.
Sorry for going off topic. I sold DLH some of my favorite coins. They fit his goals more than mine. One example
is his 1864 25 MS 68. It is a gem and in a rattler and of course CAC. There are only two no motto quarters in 68 and this one is special.
I also sold him perhaps five other very special quarters. He is building the top set so they belong with him.
Yes I sold DLH a few sets. They were not just any sets but all CAC and the majority of the coins are really nice.
The sets compare to the ones he purchased from Bruce, and Laura.
Unless you have built a set, have money and do not care about losing, you cannot know what it takes.
I am SURE that on the Barber Half set, that I lost 100K while building it. Even if I had a top graded coin,
if I found another with better eye appeal I would of course have to have it. Usually I would have to take a loss
on the coin I already owned. I did keep around ten or so amazing dupes.
They way to keep to a budget which I and even DLH do, is to try and set harder parameters on coins you are looking for. These days I try to buy, CAC, Eye appeal, value and a few other things with every coin.
DLH passed on the variety for value reasons. He has seen that the amount you can spend on nice coins!
It is endless.
If I were DLH I would upgrade with mostly CAC coins only. This would somewhat limit his buying, (sorry dealers)
I would also sell perhaps 25% of his current holdings as he upgrades. I believes he keeps many duplicate coins
now. However , with John Brush's help it seems like DLH is going to auction some of his excess inventory.
They had one sale so far with more planned. BTW JB is one of the most honorable people in the coin
business. Over the years I have spent a considerable amount with DLRC, pre and post JF.
JB buys coins for what he feels is a fair price, makes a reasonable profit and sells them.
For what it is worth, I have sold many dupes and also other coins as my taste changed. I lost the least
on coins that came from DLRC!
Love this post. So many great observations. One that stands out is that one of the best ways to learn is to sell at the certain points. I have learned so much selling over the years. Very few of the great collectors never sold (Pittman is one of the few I can think of). Great post!
Thanks Perfections. You are one at the top of the pyramid in this hobby, or if prefer business. You are pleasantly different than many of your peers. You and TDN are willing to share insights of great substance. Many of your peers will only commit, if they do, in a not so constructive way. Thanks so much, and hope you keep watching. I think it only going to get better.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
I agree that JB is welcome to post anytime. Thanks
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
How far back in time is this collection going?
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
There have been a considerable discussion about CACs. I was looking at the finest Liberty Seated Dollar set that Hansen acquired from TDN. I was surprise that only one coin in the entire set was CAC. Hansen #2 set have eight CACs. Thinking that maybe the CAC was not updated in the comment field, I reviewed the Bruce Morelan retired set. That set had some detail description in the comments, but also did not indicated any of these coins being CAC. Is this true, these great coins do not qualify for CAs?
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
If I remember correctly, TDN had commented in a thread a while ago that nearly every coin both in the Seated and Trade dollar sets were CAC'd and after a few downgrades every coin was CAC approved.
Andrew Blinkiewicz-Heritage
I believe all of Bruce’s and Laura’s sets are all CAC.
I believe in all my sets all coins are Cac except for three.
Also my second Morgan set has I think four non cac coins. I do not care about the score or the actual grade of the coins. They are beautiful and deserve to be in the set.
Lets face reality. Most coins that do not pass CAC are either very weak for the grade or not the grade. More and more people agree with this. It’s taken ten years.
Why are many smart people downgrading coins. They would rather own a 66 or 66+ CAC than a non CAC 67. Are they smart?
Who cares. That is what they choose to do.
I have posted the following many times:
CAC is always correct. They see something they do not like when they do not sticker a coin. Is the coin still the grade is the question. Some people say it is. I,on the other hand say, who cares! Are there not enough CAC coins to buy to even worry about the others?
Every seated and trade dollar in my sets were CAC ...with the exception of the 1853 in MS66 that was upgraded and hadn’t been in since. No doubt in my mind it would CAC at the new grade as it was always under graded.
Very few were bought that way - we just happened to seek out the finest possible coin for the grade in almost all instances.
I do own some early dollars that aren’t CAC...specifically the 1798 Small Eagle in MS63 ( JA is wrong about that one) and the 1801 in MS65 (he’s probably right but it’s still a great coin). They are each the finest for the date that I’ve seen
Thanks TDN.. Why is the 1870CC missing from your retired set? I hope it something that can be fixed.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
CAC is obviously not always correct. I don’t know anyone that actually thinks that’s true. Also, downgrading coins to get them to sticker just tells you that simply because a coin isn’t beaned doesn’t mean it’s a bad coin. If you are trying to collect the finest known coins, you may have to live with some of them being generously graded.
It makes much more sense to think about getting a great coin for the price paid, rather than great for the grade. Getting a coin downgraded doesn’t make it any cheaper.
The bookends are unbelievable. You have plans to fill the other proof holes? That would be great to see.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
I had a PCGS MS63 CAC and sold that when I bought an NGC64...which was a mistake since it didn’t CAC. I sold the set and they sold off that coin before I bought the set back
I have downgraded coins a few times to get a sticker or a cross - but more often to have the grade on the holder to match my personal assessment of the grade.
Not really. The market and I disagree on what non officially commissioned novodels are worth
Indeed. A terrific post. Straight shooter
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
RE: "Hansen watch"
Have been looking but have not seen one. My 1964 Accutron is still working.