@SanctionII said:
The reality of the day to day work by Mr. Hansen and those he has enlisted to help him reach his goals would be interesting to know. There is only some much time in a day that an individual can devote to "the hunt". I expect that Mr. Hansen is very busy with all aspects of his life and that at best he can spend only 1 or 2 hours a day on this collecting endeavor himself. Thus he has enlisted the aid of others to help him reach his goal. With others involved, there must be communication on a daily basis between Mr. Hansen and those who are helping him. Opportunities arise and can disappear unless they are acted upon quickly. Evaluations of the suitability of desired coins that appear for sale must be made, discussions with Mr. Hansen about available coins and whether to make a purchase offer or not must take place and if a deal is struck the work needed to perform the deal (payment and obtaining possession of the coin] must be done. Once a new purchase is completed the newly acquired coin must be cataloged, documented, submitted to PCGS for grading (i.e. a raw purchase or a crossover from another TPG) and stored.
Further, with the large number of coins that comprise the set(s) that Mr. Hansen desires to acquire, how likely is it that he can spend time viewing, holding, studying and appreciating each individual coin or even series of coins? Particularly given that his time is likely tied up with non hobby related demands. Is it possible or even likely that once acquired the individual coins are simply stored away with the others and that Mr. Hansen does not look at his collection more than once or twice per year?
It also may be that Mr. Hansen does devote a significant amount of hands on time in the trenches working on reaching his goal and on viewing, holding and studying each individual coin.
Perhaps when he reaches his goal he will write an article or a book that tells the story of him setting his goal, working towards it and reaching it, including what his motivation is for doing so.
Kudos to Mr. Hansen and best of luck to him. His efforts do make the hobby enjoyable for fellow hobbyists.
I'm imagining him growing a long beard and living in a bank vault, convincing Mrs. H to camp by candlelight among stacks of CAC'd proof gold.
@SanctionII said:
The reality of the day to day work by Mr. Hansen and those he has enlisted to help him reach his goals would be interesting to know. There is only some much time in a day that an individual can devote to "the hunt". I expect that Mr. Hansen is very busy with all aspects of his life and that at best he can spend only 1 or 2 hours a day on this collecting endeavor himself. Thus he has enlisted the aid of others to help him reach his goal. With others involved, there must be communication on a daily basis between Mr. Hansen and those who are helping him. Opportunities arise and can disappear unless they are acted upon quickly. Evaluations of the suitability of desired coins that appear for sale must be made, discussions with Mr. Hansen about available coins and whether to make a purchase offer or not must take place and if a deal is struck the work needed to perform the deal (payment and obtaining possession of the coin] must be done. Once a new purchase is completed the newly acquired coin must be cataloged, documented, submitted to PCGS for grading (i.e. a raw purchase or a crossover from another TPG) and stored.
Further, with the large number of coins that comprise the set(s) that Mr. Hansen desires to acquire, how likely is it that he can spend time viewing, holding, studying and appreciating each individual coin or even series of coins? Particularly given that his time is likely tied up with non hobby related demands. Is it possible or even likely that once acquired the individual coins are simply stored away with the others and that Mr. Hansen does not look at his collection more than once or twice per year?
It also may be that Mr. Hansen does devote a significant amount of hands on time in the trenches working on reaching his goal and on viewing, holding and studying each individual coin.
Perhaps when he reaches his goal he will write an article or a book that tells the story of him setting his goal, working towards it and reaching it, including what his motivation is for doing so.
Kudos to Mr. Hansen and best of luck to him. His efforts do make the hobby enjoyable for fellow hobbyists.
I'm imagining him growing a long beard and living in a bank vault, convincing Mrs. H to camp by candlelight among stacks of CAC'd proof gold.
It's a rough life, but somebody has to do it.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
@Currin said:
If you filter on the grade column, it will sort all the blank fields first. This will give you a listing of the missing coins in order.
For the circulation strikes, this yields 24 coins at present:
1959 1C [easy - maybe a typo]
Proof that I did something today! We replaced the 1959 Lincoln in the set...
Which reverse?
One of the biggest issues early-on was record-keeping. There were so many coins to obtain for the collection, there were a number of duplicates...This was one example...we had 4 to choose from in the following grades:
MS66RD
MS66+ RD
MS67RD
MS65RD (DDO)
John Brush President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com email: John@davidlawrence.com 2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
@SanctionII said:
The reality of the day to day work by Mr. Hansen and those he has enlisted to help him reach his goals would be interesting to know. There is only some much time in a day that an individual can devote to "the hunt". I expect that Mr. Hansen is very busy with all aspects of his life and that at best he can spend only 1 or 2 hours a day on this collecting endeavor himself. Thus he has enlisted the aid of others to help him reach his goal. With others involved, there must be communication on a daily basis between Mr. Hansen and those who are helping him. Opportunities arise and can disappear unless they are acted upon quickly. Evaluations of the suitability of desired coins that appear for sale must be made, discussions with Mr. Hansen about available coins and whether to make a purchase offer or not must take place and if a deal is struck the work needed to perform the deal (payment and obtaining possession of the coin] must be done. Once a new purchase is completed the newly acquired coin must be cataloged, documented, submitted to PCGS for grading (i.e. a raw purchase or a crossover from another TPG) and stored.
Further, with the large number of coins that comprise the set(s) that Mr. Hansen desires to acquire, how likely is it that he can spend time viewing, holding, studying and appreciating each individual coin or even series of coins? Particularly given that his time is likely tied up with non hobby related demands. Is it possible or even likely that once acquired the individual coins are simply stored away with the others and that Mr. Hansen does not look at his collection more than once or twice per year?
It also may be that Mr. Hansen does devote a significant amount of hands on time in the trenches working on reaching his goal and on viewing, holding and studying each individual coin.
Perhaps when he reaches his goal he will write an article or a book that tells the story of him setting his goal, working towards it and reaching it, including what his motivation is for doing so.
Kudos to Mr. Hansen and best of luck to him. His efforts do make the hobby enjoyable for fellow hobbyists.
There's a lot of good stuff written here. But, I'm too tired to elaborate on all of the questions brought up.
However, I can assure you that once Mr. Hansen acquires a coin, he views it a number of times...He truly enjoys looking at the coins. And then when it's added to the set, he likes to lay them all out beside each other and view them as a whole. Of course, he can't spend as much time doing that as he'd like, but one of my favorite parts of visiting with him is sharing in his joy of viewing the collection.
Mr. Hansen has been able to do so much because he doesn't require a ton of sleep. He spends more time than you can imagine looking for new coins. We've talked about doing a series of articles, displays, etc but it takes time to put all of these things together, but suggestions are welcome!
John Brush President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com email: John@davidlawrence.com 2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
@Gazes said:
My favorite numismatic literature is about collectors and how they built their collections. Would love to read the story from start to finish about the Hansen collection.
That would be nice. They could start it in installments...right now. All the minute details. It would be history in the making. Don't hold your breath.
Will Mr. Hansen continue to upgrade once the set is complete? Will he upgrade the PF62 1804 dollar at some point and does he keep duplicates of ultra rarities?
My advice, fwiw, is don’t settle. Don’t buy the cheapest classic rarity to fill the hole. In the end, the set will be judged by three dozen coins - make sure they’re spectacular
@Currin said:
For the circulation strikes, this yields 24 coins at present (now 23):
This number is presently 20. The True Hansen Complete (THC) set has three of these coins in proofs. He only need one or the other (proof or circulate), but not both to complete the date and mint set. The three proofs presently in the collection are 1864 $2-1/2, 1829 $5 Large Size , and 1875 $10. I have posted details and descriptions on all three. There are 13 additional coins needed to complete a present day true complete set. It would include two coins that Eliasberg did not have. You have already mention most of the 13. I will plan to post the complete 33 coin need list in the couple days.
Will Mr. Hansen continue to upgrade once the set is complete? Will he upgrade the PF62 1804 dollar at some point and does he keep duplicates of ultra rarities?
We're constantly upgrading sets when they make sense to do so...now, I doubt we'll upgrade the 1804 $1 unless it involved some sort of trade...
John Brush President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com email: John@davidlawrence.com 2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
@MrEureka said:
>
How about if DLH lays them all out on the kitchen table and we all come over for cocktails and show and tell? Not the whole world, just forum members.
Can you set this up for us Andy? I prefer Diet Coke myself..
John Brush President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com email: John@davidlawrence.com 2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
@Currin said:
The Richmond Collection come to mind. Be interested to know what percentage was achieved.
Another collector that is close to our hearts at DLRC!
He didn't venture out into all series. Had a large amount of gold and Seated material, but the entire spectrum of US issues wasn't his goal...
John Brush President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com email: John@davidlawrence.com 2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
@earlyAurum said:
I think he also has an $2.5 1863 in PR66+ CAC which is unbelievably gorgeous. It was for sale on DLRC a few months back.
Indeed! One of my favorite coins I've ever handled.
John Brush President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com email: John@davidlawrence.com 2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
Will Mr. Hansen continue to upgrade once the set is complete? Will he upgrade the PF62 1804 dollar at some point and does he keep duplicates of ultra rarities?
We're constantly upgrading sets when they make sense to do so...now, I doubt we'll upgrade the 1804 $1 unless it involved some sort of trade...
John, thanks for dropping in. Your prospective adds knowledge and understanding that can not be found anywhere else. Maybe overtime you can provide us with insights to what’s coming. Thanks and welcome back anytime.
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@tradedollarnut said:
My advice, fwiw, is don’t settle. Don’t buy the cheapest classic rarity to fill the hole. In the end, the set will be judged by three dozen coins - make sure they’re spectacular
I see it very differently. Yes, we all remember the headline coins in the major collections. Yes, it's good not to compromise. But it is the clunkers of all values by which I judge the collectors. For example, Eliasberg and Pittman had lots of second rate coins, and I think less of them for it. By comparison, you cannot find clunkers in TDN or STEWARTBLAY's collections, even thought their collections are trivial to Pittman's and Eliasberg's. I'm more impressed by TDN and STEWARTBLAY.
Where does DLH fit in? He gets the gold medal of all time for speed collecting. Not to take away anything from what he has accomplished - especially because I haven't seen his coins - but he must have made some mistakes and compromises along the way, same as we all do. It's going to take at least another few years of upgrades to win the next gold medal.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
@MrEureka said:
>
How about if DLH lays them all out on the kitchen table and we all come over for cocktails and show and tell? Not the whole world, just forum members.
Can you set this up for us Andy? I prefer Diet Coke myself..
@Currin said:
For the circulation strikes, this yields 24 coins at present (now 23):
This number is presently 20. The True Hansen Complete (THC) set has three of these coins in proofs. He only need one or the other (proof or circulate), but not both to complete the date and mint set. The three proofs presently in the collection are 1864 $2-1/2, 1829 $5 Large Size , and 1875 $10. I have posted details and descriptions on all three. There are 13 additional coins needed to complete a present day true complete set. It would include two coins that Eliasberg did not have. You have already mention most of the 13. I will plan to post the complete 33 coin need list in the couple days.
Thanks - I look forward to it.
I improved my list on page 2 of this thread to include the proofs substituted for circulation strikes,
and the proof-only coins.
My count is 15 not on the circulation strikes registry list that are missing for the true complete set, if the 1870-S half dime and 1933 $20 are included. So I think I'm converging to your list.
@yosclimber said:
Thanks - I look forward to it.
I improved my list on page 2 of this thread to include the proofs substituted for circulation strikes,
and the proof-only coins.
My count is 15 not on the circulation strikes registry list that are missing for the true complete set, if the 1870-S half dime and 1933 $20 are included. So I think I'm converging to your list.
Very good work.
By my perspective, the half cent proofs are completed. In most half cent collections, the same consideration is given to either original proofs or restrike proofs. They are comparable in value and rarity. In addition, I think Eliasberg did not have an original for at least one of these dates. If I recall, a few weeks back in reviewing Hansen half cents, I believe he has a specimen for every date. Some were original proofs and some were restrikes. I believe couple dates he have both. I think Hansen goal is to own both, but I personally don't feel originals are required for the true completion date and mint set. If you x-off all Half Cents, and my count is correct, then there are four remaining that you have not accounted for.
All 4 coins are in the your category _Proof-only, not on Registry list _in which you only show the 1913 Liberty 5C. There are several more coins in this category with Hansen having all of them except the 1913 Lib and 4 others. I can give you couple hints on what is missing.
You are missing two little gold coins that are of a weird denomination. They both have the same date, but the pretty lady have two different hair styles.
The third coin is a very unappreciated old silver proof coin. Eliasberg had very worst specimen possible. "Exactly nine examples of this famous rarity are known, including one in the Smithsonian Institution. All except one are PF-60 or better. The exception is the Eliasberg impaired proof specimen, a perfectly clean VF-20" (CF). What a shame this impaired coin was not upgraded.
The fourth and last is a controversial coin. Eliasberg did not have one, and during his time some experts claim that his set was not complete because not having this coin. Eliasberg disagreed and never obtained a specimen.
I plan to post the countdown list tomorrow. Thanks for participating in thrill of the research.
The third coin is a very unappreciated old silver proof coin. Eliasberg had very worst specimen possible. "Exactly nine examples of this famous rarity are known, including one in the Smithsonian Institution. All except one are PF-60 or better.
The third coin is a very unappreciated old silver proof coin. Eliasberg had very worst specimen possible. "Exactly nine examples of this famous rarity are known, including one in the Smithsonian Institution. All except one are PF-60 or better. The exception is the Eliasberg impaired proof specimen, a perfectly clean VF-20" (CF). What a shame this impaired coin was not upgraded.
Got that one now!
Also moved the 1838-O half dollar from "on registry list" [Basic Proof Set] to "not on registry list".
I'm working on the last difficult hint!
My first guess was Gobrecht Dollars (Redbook set), since some of them were issued in quantity.
But I don't see a Registry list for Eliasberg there.
However, Eliasberg did have 1836, 1839 and 1839 Gobrecht Dollars.
This could get somewhat subjective, as there were several design variation coins (like 1866 No Motto denominations, Paquet reverses, etc.) that Eliasberg did not have.
Of course we could call the Arrows / No Arrows design variations, too....
I like keeping the Eliasberg set as a target to limit the expansion of the list in this way.
@yosclimber said: @Currin, Thanks for your comments and the hint
My first guess was Gobrecht Dollars (Redbook set), since some of them were issued in quantity.
But I don't see a Registry list for Eliasberg there.
Being you brought up the Gobrecht Dollars, the group may need some discussion on what should be required and what not. I have not fully landed on an opinion for this requirement. The best that I can tell, Eliasberg had the 1836. He may had others, but I have not been able to determine for sure. Maybe someone have an Eliasberg catalog. According to my notes, Hansen has the 1836 Issue, but does not have the 1839. The question that we need to determine is if the 1839 is a pattern to exclude, or should it be a requirement. I am open to all thoughts, and if anyone know if Eliasberg considered all three as a requirement in his set. Either way, I don't think it is really a significant issue due to the survival for the 1839 Gobrecht is approx. 250 strong.
@Currin,
I edited my post while you were writing yours.
I looked through the pedigree lists on PCGS CoinFacts -
they show Eliasberg had 1836 (J-58) and 1838 (J-84) Gobrecht Dollars, and it's unclear on 1839.
But the pedigree lists for 1839 are not very detailed.
However, more detailed info on uspatterns.com indicates that Eliasberg did have an 1839 (J-104, PR-61, $15,400):
Lot 2203 of the Eliasberg Collection where Dave Bowers catalogued an 1839 Gobrecht dollar in die alignment IV from perfect dies as an original issue of December 1839.
Cool.. You are all over the last one. In fact you have guessed it. I will share my countdown list tomorrow, and get your opinion on if the controversial one should be include. Even though it will be extremely difficult to acquire (hint), if Hansen can get the coin, it will be something that Eliasberg could not obtain even though he was credited with a complete set.
@tradedollarnut said:
1839 gobrecht is a regular issue and is required
Thanks TDN. Red Book and CoinFacts both agree that 1836 and 1839 are in fact regular issues. The 1838 is considered a pattern. You input is very much appreciated.
1849-O 25C G6
This is a not an impressive addition. This must definitely be a hole filler. The New Orleans 1849 quarter is tough date, but to settle for a G6 is surprising. In comparison, Eliasberg specimen was a MS62. There is not much else to say about this coin. I hope John can drop in a give us some insight on how this ended up in the collection.
There is no history on this coin. Certainly not sure how it was acquired, and no picture.
Ron Guth CoinFacts comments on the 1849-O 25C: In a survey of the members of the Liberty Seated Collectors Club, published in the March 2008 issue of the Gobrecht Journal, the 1849-O Quarter Dollar was ranked third among the Ten Greatest New Orleans Seated Coins: "This is one of the key dates in the Seated quarter series with an estimated mintage of only 16,000 pieces. Most of the available coins are well worn but several mint state specimens are known. A beautiful deeply toned coin that was graded NGC MS-64 appeared in the DLRC auction of the Richmond Collection in March 2005. Another example described as MS-62 appeared in the Bowers and Merena sale of the Eliasberg Collection in April 1997. While only 27% of the respondents placed this issue among their top three choices, it received strong support from the majority of members with 66% placing it among their top seven coins."
I have noticed in the registry for Liberty Head 2-1/2 Gold Basic set with 1841 that Hansen is listed as the owner of an 1846-O in MS 65 ( a great six figure coin that use to be in a NGC 66 holder). However, in the Liberty 2/12 Gold Basic set circulation strikes (without 1841) the Diana Collection is shown as the owner of the 1846-O 65 and Hansen lists a PCGS 61 for his coin. Why the discrepancy? I didn't think the PCGS software would permit two coins two show like that with different owners?
@Gazes said:
I have noticed in the registry for Liberty Head 2-1/2 Gold Basic set with 1841 that Hansen is listed as the owner of an 1846-O in MS 65 ( a great six figure coin that use to be in a NGC 66 holder). However, in the Liberty 2/12 Gold Basic set circulation strikes (without 1841) the Diana Collection is shown as the owner of the 1846-O 65 and Hansen lists a PCGS 61 for his coin. Why the discrepancy? I didn't think the PCGS software would permit two coins two show like that with different owners?
The only way that I know it can happen is that the two sets the same owner. I think that is the case here.
Wonderful thread. I think it is great to see TDN and Andy and JBat weighing in. There is simply no way to be the next Eliasberg and have quality in everything. Maybe TDN's point is that for the real elite coins in the set, wait for the best. Might be tough to do when Pogue won't let go of a few things and others may be deep in rabbit holes. No right or wrong way to do it. As can be seen from some images in this thread, Mr. Hansen has acquired some beauties.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
It’s not the coin that I’d want in my set. But as a single instance, it’s ok. I’d just hate for that to be his philosophy on the ultra rarities. I’d hate to see every one be the worst example. I feel it would unnecessarily cheapen his accomplishment
“Hansen Watch” reached the mile marker of over 5 thousand views this weekend. I appreciate everyone that have dropped in and viewed thread from time to time. I want to especially acknowledge the top stakeholders in the field that have added incredible insights. You know who you are, thanks! I will acknowledge there are haters; that’s just reality. This thread was not intended to focus on Mr. Hansen, rather the collection and merits of the collection as it grows. I know the difficulty of separating the two. Also, I know some of you hate the name of the thread. I know jokes have been made about it on this and other threads. I have to admit, I could have done a better job with the name, but let’s move on.
Many of you have been watching, but have not commented. That’s great. You are not required to comment to watch. I think the title “Hansen Watch” works well with that aspect. If you are new, and find the thread enjoyable, please feel free to give a shout out. Last I will say, I don’t think the building of this collection is a short endeavor. It is going be journey that will last many years or decades. As this list gets shorter, the list will get harder to check one off. Anyone that has experience in building a set has experienced first-hand. So, without further delay, let me share the countdown list. I think the list is accurate and precise. Thanks for the help and input of others. Although, it possible that I have missed including one or two requirements. If you feel something need to be added or deleted, please feel free share.
There are 33 remaining coins that must be acquired for a “True Eliasberg Complete Set plus Two”. The first plus is the unique 1870-S Half Dime that was not known at the time Eliasberg completed his set. For the second addition, Eliasberg never owned the 1866 "No Motto" Dollar Proof Only. Due to this fact, he was challenge on occasions that he did not have a complete set. From the National Silver Dollar Round Table (Nov. 1983) published by Bruce Amspacher, There are only two examples traceable of this great rarity… An excellent argument can be made that this coin is a regular issue, and that without it no collection can be truly complete. In fact, I corresponded with Louis Eliasberg about it in the mid-‘70s, since there was no 1866 No Motto Dollar in his collection. If Hansen can add this coin to this collection, this half century debate can be put to rest.
The 14 coins that are not listed in the complete registry set are Bold below
Top 10 - These coins will be the ultimate challenge.
Next 12 – These coins will be a challenge but should be able to find a specimen in desirable grade.
Last 11 – These coins will not be a challenge to find.
Top 10 1870-S Half Dime (Unique Coin in an anonymous East Coast collection) 1873-CC "No Arrows" Dime (Unique Coin in an anonymous collection) 1870-S Three Dollar Only (Unique Coin owned by the Bass Foundation displayed at the ANA) 1866 "No Motto" Dollar Proof Only (2 Minted, Unique Private Coin in an anonymous collection)
1822 Half Eagle (Survival 3, Unique Private Owned Coin in the Pogue Collection) 1933 Double Eagle (Known Survival 14, Unique Legally Owned Coin in an anonymous collection)
1854-S Half Eagle (Survival 4, 2 in private: 1-Pogue Collection; 2 is newly discovered and scheduled for 2018 fall auction)
1798 "Small Eagle" Half Eagle (Survival 7, Only 2 maybe 3 examples that could be privately purchased) 1913 Liberty Head Nickel Proof Only (5 Minted, 3 private hands, Eliasberg Specimen is schedule to be auction in August)
1873-CC "No Arrows" Quarter Dollar (Survival 4, Last auction appearance for this coin was 2015 for Eliasberg specimen)
Next 12 1885 Trade Dollar Proof Only (Minted known 5) 1838-0 Half Dollar BM Only (Survival 9, six known for private purchase)
1819 “No Variety” Half Eagle (Survival 7) 1880 Four Dollar Gold "Stellas" (Coiled Hair) Proof Only (Survival 8) 1827 "Original" Quarter Dollar Proof Only (Survival 9) 1841 Quarter Eagle (Survival 11) 1894-S Barber Dime BM Proof Only (Survival 13)
1797 "Large Eagle” Half Eagle (Survival 20) 1880 Four Dollar Gold "Stellas" (Flowing Hair) Proof Only (Survival 24)
1802 Half Dime (Survival 25, only 9 known in VF - AU)
1864-S Half Eagle (Survival 32, only 7 known in AU)
1933 Ten Dollar (Survival 40, rarest issue in series)
@currin - I am actually enjoying watching the progress here. I think the name of the thread is great and accurate.
I will have admit this is way out of my scope......and DLH has knocked several of my sets down a peg.
I do like the fact that he is very much involved and spends all the time he can on the coins himself and is not just the checkbook with someone(s) doing all the work.
Comments
Sage advice.
Pacific Northwest Numismatic Association
I wonder how long his collection will be "off the market"
I'm imagining him growing a long beard and living in a bank vault, convincing Mrs. H to camp by candlelight among stacks of CAC'd proof gold.
It's a rough life, but somebody has to do it.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Which reverse?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
One of the biggest issues early-on was record-keeping. There were so many coins to obtain for the collection, there were a number of duplicates...This was one example...we had 4 to choose from in the following grades:
MS66RD
MS66+ RD
MS67RD
MS65RD (DDO)
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
There's a lot of good stuff written here. But, I'm too tired to elaborate on all of the questions brought up.
However, I can assure you that once Mr. Hansen acquires a coin, he views it a number of times...He truly enjoys looking at the coins. And then when it's added to the set, he likes to lay them all out beside each other and view them as a whole. Of course, he can't spend as much time doing that as he'd like, but one of my favorite parts of visiting with him is sharing in his joy of viewing the collection.
Mr. Hansen has been able to do so much because he doesn't require a ton of sleep. He spends more time than you can imagine looking for new coins. We've talked about doing a series of articles, displays, etc but it takes time to put all of these things together, but suggestions are welcome!
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
That would be nice. They could start it in installments...right now. All the minute details. It would be history in the making. Don't hold your breath.
@JBatDavidLawrence
Will Mr. Hansen continue to upgrade once the set is complete? Will he upgrade the PF62 1804 dollar at some point and does he keep duplicates of ultra rarities?
"We've talked about doing a series of articles, displays, etc but it takes time to put all of these things together, but suggestions are welcome!"
How about if DLH lays them all out on the kitchen table and we all come over for cocktails and show and tell? Not the whole world, just forum members.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I love it!!!!
My advice, fwiw, is don’t settle. Don’t buy the cheapest classic rarity to fill the hole. In the end, the set will be judged by three dozen coins - make sure they’re spectacular
This number is presently 20. The True Hansen Complete (THC) set has three of these coins in proofs. He only need one or the other (proof or circulate), but not both to complete the date and mint set. The three proofs presently in the collection are 1864 $2-1/2, 1829 $5 Large Size , and 1875 $10. I have posted details and descriptions on all three. There are 13 additional coins needed to complete a present day true complete set. It would include two coins that Eliasberg did not have. You have already mention most of the 13. I will plan to post the complete 33 coin need list in the couple days.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
Prior to Hansen, did anyone make a serious run at Eliasberg's achievement ?
The Richmond Collection come to mind. Be interested to know what percentage was achieved.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
I think he also has an $2.5 1863 in PR66+ CAC which is unbelievably gorgeous. It was for sale on DLRC a few months back.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
We're constantly upgrading sets when they make sense to do so...now, I doubt we'll upgrade the 1804 $1 unless it involved some sort of trade...
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
Can you set this up for us Andy? I prefer Diet Coke myself..
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
Another collector that is close to our hearts at DLRC!
He didn't venture out into all series. Had a large amount of gold and Seated material, but the entire spectrum of US issues wasn't his goal...
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
Indeed! One of my favorite coins I've ever handled.
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
That would have to be a really big table.
Holy crap!
John, thanks for dropping in. Your prospective adds knowledge and understanding that can not be found anywhere else. Maybe overtime you can provide us with insights to what’s coming. Thanks and welcome back anytime.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
Great thread
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I see it very differently. Yes, we all remember the headline coins in the major collections. Yes, it's good not to compromise. But it is the clunkers of all values by which I judge the collectors. For example, Eliasberg and Pittman had lots of second rate coins, and I think less of them for it. By comparison, you cannot find clunkers in TDN or STEWARTBLAY's collections, even thought their collections are trivial to Pittman's and Eliasberg's. I'm more impressed by TDN and STEWARTBLAY.
Where does DLH fit in? He gets the gold medal of all time for speed collecting. Not to take away anything from what he has accomplished - especially because I haven't seen his coins - but he must have made some mistakes and compromises along the way, same as we all do. It's going to take at least another few years of upgrades to win the next gold medal.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Please. I'm all in. It would be fun.
Thanks - I look forward to it.
I improved my list on page 2 of this thread to include the proofs substituted for circulation strikes,
and the proof-only coins.
My count is 15 not on the circulation strikes registry list that are missing for the true complete set, if the 1870-S half dime and 1933 $20 are included. So I think I'm converging to your list.
Very good work.
By my perspective, the half cent proofs are completed. In most half cent collections, the same consideration is given to either original proofs or restrike proofs. They are comparable in value and rarity. In addition, I think Eliasberg did not have an original for at least one of these dates. If I recall, a few weeks back in reviewing Hansen half cents, I believe he has a specimen for every date. Some were original proofs and some were restrikes. I believe couple dates he have both. I think Hansen goal is to own both, but I personally don't feel originals are required for the true completion date and mint set. If you x-off all Half Cents, and my count is correct, then there are four remaining that you have not accounted for.
All 4 coins are in the your category _Proof-only, not on Registry list _in which you only show the 1913 Liberty 5C. There are several more coins in this category with Hansen having all of them except the 1913 Lib and 4 others. I can give you couple hints on what is missing.
I plan to post the countdown list tomorrow. Thanks for participating in thrill of the research.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
Thanks Everyone, I am really enjoying this thread!
Very interesting reading.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/11986023#Comment_11986023
@Currin, Thanks for your comments and the hints!
I cleaned up the half cents and "two little gold coins" parts of my list.
I agree on the half cents - original vs. restrike does not matter for "date/mintmark" set.
According to the Registry List, Eliasberg had all Originals and Restrikes for 1836-1852, except no 1836 Restrikes or 1848 Original.
https://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/half-cents/half-cents-major-sets/half-cents-major-varieties-proof-1831-1857/alltimeset/6706
But this was all courtesy of the Clapp collection.
Got that one now!
Also moved the 1838-O half dollar from "on registry list" [Basic Proof Set] to "not on registry list".
I'm working on the last difficult hint!
My first guess was Gobrecht Dollars (Redbook set), since some of them were issued in quantity.
But I don't see a Registry list for Eliasberg there.
However, Eliasberg did have 1836, 1839 and 1839 Gobrecht Dollars.
This could get somewhat subjective, as there were several design variation coins (like 1866 No Motto denominations, Paquet reverses, etc.) that Eliasberg did not have.
Of course we could call the Arrows / No Arrows design variations, too....
I like keeping the Eliasberg set as a target to limit the expansion of the list in this way.
Being you brought up the Gobrecht Dollars, the group may need some discussion on what should be required and what not. I have not fully landed on an opinion for this requirement. The best that I can tell, Eliasberg had the 1836. He may had others, but I have not been able to determine for sure. Maybe someone have an Eliasberg catalog. According to my notes, Hansen has the 1836 Issue, but does not have the 1839. The question that we need to determine is if the 1839 is a pattern to exclude, or should it be a requirement. I am open to all thoughts, and if anyone know if Eliasberg considered all three as a requirement in his set. Either way, I don't think it is really a significant issue due to the survival for the 1839 Gobrecht is approx. 250 strong.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
@Currin,
I edited my post while you were writing yours.
I looked through the pedigree lists on PCGS CoinFacts -
they show Eliasberg had 1836 (J-58) and 1838 (J-84) Gobrecht Dollars, and it's unclear on 1839.
But the pedigree lists for 1839 are not very detailed.
However, more detailed info on uspatterns.com indicates that Eliasberg did have an 1839 (J-104, PR-61, $15,400):
http://uspatterns.com/inbyjamcgray.html
https://www.pcgs.com/auctionprices/item/1839-1-j-104-restrike/811446/-1489576579640641692
Cool.. You are all over the last one. In fact you have guessed it. I will share my countdown list tomorrow, and get your opinion on if the controversial one should be include. Even though it will be extremely difficult to acquire (hint), if Hansen can get the coin, it will be something that Eliasberg could not obtain even though he was credited with a complete set.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
1839 gobrecht is a regular issue and is required
Thanks TDN. Red Book and CoinFacts both agree that 1836 and 1839 are in fact regular issues. The 1838 is considered a pattern. You input is very much appreciated.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
COUNTDOWN 33
1849-O 25C G6
This is a not an impressive addition. This must definitely be a hole filler. The New Orleans 1849 quarter is tough date, but to settle for a G6 is surprising. In comparison, Eliasberg specimen was a MS62. There is not much else to say about this coin. I hope John can drop in a give us some insight on how this ended up in the collection.
There is no history on this coin. Certainly not sure how it was acquired, and no picture.
Ron Guth CoinFacts comments on the 1849-O 25C:
In a survey of the members of the Liberty Seated Collectors Club, published in the March 2008 issue of the Gobrecht Journal, the 1849-O Quarter Dollar was ranked third among the Ten Greatest New Orleans Seated Coins: "This is one of the key dates in the Seated quarter series with an estimated mintage of only 16,000 pieces. Most of the available coins are well worn but several mint state specimens are known. A beautiful deeply toned coin that was graded NGC MS-64 appeared in the DLRC auction of the Richmond Collection in March 2005. Another example described as MS-62 appeared in the Bowers and Merena sale of the Eliasberg Collection in April 1997. While only 27% of the respondents placed this issue among their top three choices, it received strong support from the majority of members with 66% placing it among their top seven coins."
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
I have noticed in the registry for Liberty Head 2-1/2 Gold Basic set with 1841 that Hansen is listed as the owner of an 1846-O in MS 65 ( a great six figure coin that use to be in a NGC 66 holder). However, in the Liberty 2/12 Gold Basic set circulation strikes (without 1841) the Diana Collection is shown as the owner of the 1846-O 65 and Hansen lists a PCGS 61 for his coin. Why the discrepancy? I didn't think the PCGS software would permit two coins two show like that with different owners?
The only way that I know it can happen is that the two sets the same owner. I think that is the case here.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
Wonderful thread. I think it is great to see TDN and Andy and JBat weighing in. There is simply no way to be the next Eliasberg and have quality in everything. Maybe TDN's point is that for the real elite coins in the set, wait for the best. Might be tough to do when Pogue won't let go of a few things and others may be deep in rabbit holes. No right or wrong way to do it. As can be seen from some images in this thread, Mr. Hansen has acquired some beauties.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
You don’t have to buy the best of the great coins - just don’t have the worst example of all of them
A "Hansen Watch" is way too expensive for my taste.
My Timex works just fine...................
Pete
TDN.. do you think the 1804 was a bad buy?
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
It’s not the coin that I’d want in my set. But as a single instance, it’s ok. I’d just hate for that to be his philosophy on the ultra rarities. I’d hate to see every one be the worst example. I feel it would unnecessarily cheapen his accomplishment
I agree and I don't even have a Timex...….I use my "flip phone" to tell time when I am not around a clock.
“Hansen Watch” reached the mile marker of over 5 thousand views this weekend. I appreciate everyone that have dropped in and viewed thread from time to time. I want to especially acknowledge the top stakeholders in the field that have added incredible insights. You know who you are, thanks! I will acknowledge there are haters; that’s just reality. This thread was not intended to focus on Mr. Hansen, rather the collection and merits of the collection as it grows. I know the difficulty of separating the two. Also, I know some of you hate the name of the thread. I know jokes have been made about it on this and other threads. I have to admit, I could have done a better job with the name, but let’s move on.
Many of you have been watching, but have not commented. That’s great. You are not required to comment to watch. I think the title “Hansen Watch” works well with that aspect. If you are new, and find the thread enjoyable, please feel free to give a shout out. Last I will say, I don’t think the building of this collection is a short endeavor. It is going be journey that will last many years or decades. As this list gets shorter, the list will get harder to check one off. Anyone that has experience in building a set has experienced first-hand. So, without further delay, let me share the countdown list. I think the list is accurate and precise. Thanks for the help and input of others. Although, it possible that I have missed including one or two requirements. If you feel something need to be added or deleted, please feel free share.
There are 33 remaining coins that must be acquired for a “True Eliasberg Complete Set plus Two”. The first plus is the unique 1870-S Half Dime that was not known at the time Eliasberg completed his set. For the second addition, Eliasberg never owned the 1866 "No Motto" Dollar Proof Only. Due to this fact, he was challenge on occasions that he did not have a complete set. From the National Silver Dollar Round Table (Nov. 1983) published by Bruce Amspacher, There are only two examples traceable of this great rarity… An excellent argument can be made that this coin is a regular issue, and that without it no collection can be truly complete. In fact, I corresponded with Louis Eliasberg about it in the mid-‘70s, since there was no 1866 No Motto Dollar in his collection. If Hansen can add this coin to this collection, this half century debate can be put to rest.
The 14 coins that are not listed in the complete registry set are Bold below
Top 10 - These coins will be the ultimate challenge.
Next 12 – These coins will be a challenge but should be able to find a specimen in desirable grade.
Last 11 – These coins will not be a challenge to find.
Top 10
1870-S Half Dime (Unique Coin in an anonymous East Coast collection)
1873-CC "No Arrows" Dime (Unique Coin in an anonymous collection)
1870-S Three Dollar Only (Unique Coin owned by the Bass Foundation displayed at the ANA)
1866 "No Motto" Dollar Proof Only (2 Minted, Unique Private Coin in an anonymous collection)
1822 Half Eagle (Survival 3, Unique Private Owned Coin in the Pogue Collection)
1933 Double Eagle (Known Survival 14, Unique Legally Owned Coin in an anonymous collection)
1854-S Half Eagle (Survival 4, 2 in private: 1-Pogue Collection; 2 is newly discovered and scheduled for 2018 fall auction)
1798 "Small Eagle" Half Eagle (Survival 7, Only 2 maybe 3 examples that could be privately purchased)
1913 Liberty Head Nickel Proof Only (5 Minted, 3 private hands, Eliasberg Specimen is schedule to be auction in August)
1873-CC "No Arrows" Quarter Dollar (Survival 4, Last auction appearance for this coin was 2015 for Eliasberg specimen)
Next 12
1885 Trade Dollar Proof Only (Minted known 5)
1838-0 Half Dollar BM Only (Survival 9, six known for private purchase)
1819 “No Variety” Half Eagle (Survival 7)
1880 Four Dollar Gold "Stellas" (Coiled Hair) Proof Only (Survival 8)
1827 "Original" Quarter Dollar Proof Only (Survival 9)
1841 Quarter Eagle (Survival 11)
1894-S Barber Dime BM Proof Only (Survival 13)
1797 "Large Eagle” Half Eagle (Survival 20)
1880 Four Dollar Gold "Stellas" (Flowing Hair) Proof Only (Survival 24)
1802 Half Dime (Survival 25, only 9 known in VF - AU)
1864-S Half Eagle (Survival 32, only 7 known in AU)
1933 Ten Dollar (Survival 40, rarest issue in series)
Last 11
1796 “Stars" Quarter Eagle (Survival 40)
1856-D Quarter Eagle (Survival 50)
1861-S Half Eagle (Survival 60)
1840-D Quarter Eagle (Survival 65)
1841-D Quarter Eagle (Survival 75)
1854-D Quarter Eagle (Survival 75)
1798 Quarter Eagle (Survival 80)
1856-O Half Eagle (Survival 85)
1857-D Quarter Eagle (Survival 125)
1839 Gobrecht Dollar Proof Only (Survival 250)
1846-C Half Eagle (Survival 300)
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
@currin - I am actually enjoying watching the progress here. I think the name of the thread is great and accurate.
I will have admit this is way out of my scope......and DLH has knocked several of my sets down a peg.
I do like the fact that he is very much involved and spends all the time he can on the coins himself and is not just the checkbook with someone(s) doing all the work.