@Bullsitter said:
Saban ran Meyer out of the SEC after Bama stomped him and Tebow. He knew he couldn't hang with Saban and the SEC so he faked heart problems and ran as fast as he could. He sat out a year and went to a cupcake conference, the BIG10. He knew he could win there because that league was weak.
Hey Garnett, wasn't OSU on probation for cheating in 2014? I remember something about that but wasn't sure about the years.
Some BIG10 fans like to twist stats and use "ifs" and "buts". I just state the facts Jack.
lol fake news. Cupcake conference funny. Big Ten went 3-1 against the soft sec last year and the sec had a losing record against the non-conference power five. BIG TEN has the best record against the non con power five the last two years. Enjoy your fake playoffs. Oh and Urban has a winning record against nicky so he doesn't run from anybody. Nice try. Zeke put up 220 yds on the ground against your fluff defense.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
@fergie23 said:
Yeah that "sterling" OSU resume in 2017, lost 31-16 to Oklahoma and lost 55 - 24 to Iowa.
I guess it would've been better scheduling an FCS opponent like the Citadel, instead of Oklahoma. That way, OSU would've had 1 loss like alabama. AND 3 TOP 15 WINS. Bama had ZERO top 15 wins AND lost to their rival. They had no business being in the playoffs and the majority agreed. Oh and OSU BEAT their rival.
And 2018 Ohio State played 12 power 5 opponents, while the Tide played against 10.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
Saban ran Meyer out of the SEC after Bama stomped him and Tebow. He knew he couldn't hang with Saban and the SEC so he faked heart problems and ran as fast as he could.
I just state the facts Jack
Bullsitter, i like you and try to get along so just link me up to the "facts, Jack" because i think you're more full of crap than the proverbial Christmas Turkey.
dude, it's your BS story, not mine. I suppose it might be in the realm of possibility that he had heart problems, but i doubt Nick Saban chased him out and he "faked" an ailment as an excuse. that's a bit over the top. I get that you don't like the man but that's not a good reason to impugn his integrity with made up stuff.
maybe you should join the guys at the US Forum who are making up CAC stories. as for this, it really isn't important enough to me to research, you should do that since you seem to care enough to make stuff up or believe in rumors.
I'm gonna go with Rodney from CA and hope we can just get along.
Maybe I shouldn't have said "faked".
I should have said he used it as an excuse to leave Florida.
Just think if everybody that had heart pains quit their jobs.....
I guess it would've been better scheduling an FCS opponent like the Citadel, instead of Oklahoma. That way, OSU would've had 1 loss like alabama. AND 3 TOP 15 WINS. Bama had ZERO top 15 wins AND lost to their rival. They had no business being in the playoffs and the majority agreed. Oh and OSU BEAT their rival. And 2018 Ohio State played 12 power 5 opponents, while the Tide played against 10.
No majority agreed with you, unless you count the majority of OSU fans.
Yup ignoring the two losses last year which is basically par for the course with you Garnett. Alabama scheduled FSU in 2017 who were ranked #3 in the preseason. Of course, FSU ended up being terrible last year but that isn't Alabama's fault. As for comparing Alabama and OSU in 2018, OSU got manhandled by un-ranked Purdue 49-20 and Alabama was undefeated which is where the comparison starts and stops.
You also seem to be forgetting that 2017 Alabama went 2-0 against the top 4. Seems like the CFP committee got it right. In 2014 after OSU got in over Baylor and TCU you used the fact that OSU won it all to justify their placement in the top 4.
Your 2015 OSU team schedule Va Tech (6-6), Hawaii (3-10), Northern Illinois (8-5) and Western Michigan (7-5). None of which were ranked. So it is not like OSU only schedules tough non-conference opponents.
The last 3 years the B10 teams haven't belonged with the big boys. The 2015 MSU team that beat OSU was destroyed 38-0 by Alabama. That 2015 MSU team also had 3 TOP 15 WINS but they couldn't play with Alabama. The 2016 OSU team was destroyed 31-0 by Clemson. The 2017 OSU B10 champion, not in the playoffs, lost 31-16 to CFP #2 seed Oklahoma at home. 2017 Oklahoma lost to Georgia in the CFP semi-finals. Pretty clear to any outside observer that the B10 just hasn't had an elite team that could hang with the best of the best.
The funny thing about these discussions is that I don't even like Alabama. Before the CFP I felt that the SEC was over hyped and over rated. Of course, in 4 years of the CFPs the SEC has gone 6-3 with 2 national championships and 4 teams in the final game. Big10 has gone 2-2 with one national championship and one team in the final game and two of the 3 worst blow out losses in CFP history.
You also seem to be forgetting that 2017 Alabama went 2-0 against the top 4.
Please tell me what top 4 teams Alabama beat to deserve a playoff spot?? This is the final 2017 rankings. As you can see, OSU beat THREE top 15 teams BEFORE the playoff selection as per the final rankings. Bama ---ZERO top 15 wins. Pre-season rankings mean nothing.
And your bashing of the 2015 OSU getting beat by MSU also holds no water. By your logic, OLE MISS then should've been in the playoffs over Alabama, because they defeated Alabama during the regular season. Nice try.
Alabama
Georgia
Oklahoma
Clemson
Ohio State
UCF
Wisconsin
Penn State
TCU
Auburn
Notre Dame
USC
Miami (Fla.)
Oklahoma State
Michigan State
Washington
Northwestern
LSU
Mississippi State
Stanford
South Florida
Boise State
NC State
Virginia Tech
Memphis
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
That 2015 MSU team also had 3 TOP 15 WINS but they couldn't play with Alabama.
I hope you seriously cant really be that ignorant? Anyone with half of a brain, knows that the only reason why MSU made the playoffs in 2015, was because of possibly the biggest fluke play in the history of college football.
what I remember about the Rose Bowl: it was referred to as the "Granddaddy of them all" when the hype got revved up, the PAC 10 seemed to be more relevant with dominance by USC and UCLA and the Big 10 actually had 10 Teams and no Divisions, everyone played each other(same for the PAC 10). it was a formula which ensured that the best Teams of each Conference played each other.
I also seem to recall that there was a rule in effect which stated that no Big 10 Team could play in consecutive seasons.
I think it has changed over the years, now it's just one of many big Bowls, but I think the current Playoff structure has done some negative things for College Football. without sounding paranoid or biased, the "Power" in NCAA D1 Football has shifted to three Bowls --- Orange, Sugar, Cotton --- and to the Conferences those tend to represent in the South and Southeast.
it is a noticeable shift. the "Power" used to be across the North/Upper Midwest and out on the West Coast, as far as the Teams, with the games being in the warmer South. the West Coast has really suffered because the players don't seem to go there anymore. that shift is slowly happening in the Big 10 and I think the Coaching change at OSU will prove that out in the next year or two. the SEC Teams along with the ACC and Big 12 will be the beneficiary of that. what is already "strength" in those conferences will only get stronger.
And yet a win is a win including 2015 MSU beating your OSU Buckeyes and keeping them out of the playoffs.
2017 OSU lost two games. They had their shot at a playoff team and got trounced by Oklahoma at home. They then followed it up by being embarrassed by Iowa. Garnett, I know you like to pretend the games OSU lost didn't happen but sadly for OSU and their fans you can't live in Buckeye fairy tale land.
One consistency the committee has had is that no two loss team has made the playoffs. I believe that is a good thing. I would also like to see disqualified teams that fail to even play for their conference title. They basically come in no better than third in their conference but are playing for the championship. Yes I know this would have applied to the Buckeyes.
@fergie23 said:
And yet a win is a win including 2015 MSU beating your OSU Buckeyes and keeping them out of the playoffs.
2017 OSU lost two games. They had their shot at a playoff team and got trounced by Oklahoma at home. They then followed it up by being embarrassed by Iowa. Garnett, I know you like to pretend the games OSU lost didn't happen but sadly for OSU and their fans you can't live in Buckeye fairy tale land.
Robb
Um, Urban won over 90% of his games at OSU. Who else has done that?
When Clemson lost to a 4 win team last year, you never said anything about them not being deserving. You're just a delusional Buckeye hater.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
@Brick said:
One consistency the committee has had is that no two loss team has made the playoffs. I believe that is a good thing. I would also like to see disqualified teams that fail to even play for their conference title. They basically come in no better than third in their conference but are playing for the championship. Yes I know this would have applied to the Buckeyes.
If Oklahoma would've lost to Texas, a two loss sec team would've gotten in this year over a one loss conference champion. The ONLY consistency that the committee has shown is their huge bias towards the sec. And the reason why I refuse to watch this years Holiday invitational playoffs.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
If Alabama would've lost to Georgia, two one loss sec teams would've gotten in this year over a one loss conference champion.
Which is nonsense because a conference championship game is considered a POST-season game. In what other world do you have a loser advance after a post-season loss? We need a better system.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
this is why the current "system" by this "committee" to decide the National Champion need to be restructured. there is just no logical reason why a Team that can't win its Conference Championship should play for the National Championship. no matter what has happened in the past, no matter what happens in the future, it just shouldn't happen.
@keets said:
this is why the current "system" by this "committee" to decide the National Champion need to be restructured. there is just no logical reason why a Team that can't win its Conference Championship should play for the National Championship. no matter what has happened in the past, no matter what happens in the future, it just shouldn't happen.
I realize it's different from NCAA basketball in that there are 4 teams instead of 68 but same principle applies there... the "best" team wins the tournament. Football just has a painfully small "tournament." Winning a conference doesn't make a team more worthy to win the national championship. I don't recall who won the Pac-12 championship this year but they don't belong in a 4 or even an 8 team playoff... and maybe not even a 16 team playoff. Until you get up to at least 16 teams the conference championship just needs to be a factor in deciding who the best teams are. No automatic entry into the tourney. This year there were three teams that were very close to each other for the 4th spot. Fans of each team could make a case why their team was most deserving and they were all right. Ultimately a group of "smart people" decides who is the "best" 4 teams. I grant you the system is far from perfect but I think we are closer to determining the best team than 20 years ago.
Keets, with only 4 teams allowed in I agree that for teams with a conference championship they should have to win it to play in the playoffs. Unfortunately, the CFP committee made an exception for OSU in 2016 and that opened the door. Once opened those doors are notoriously difficult to close. The sooner we go to an 8 team playoff the better.
@fergie23 said:
Keets, with only 4 teams allowed in I agree that for teams with a conference championship they should have to win it to play in the playoffs. Unfortunately, the CFP committee made an exception for OSU in 2016 and that opened the door. Once opened those doors are notoriously difficult to close. The sooner we go to an 8 team playoff the better.
Robb
Reasons why OSU got picked over Penn State was because one team had 2 losses. And the one loss team played a tough schedule. However both teams could've gotten in, but that scenario only goes to sec teams.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
“Everyone has the same feeling; expansion is inevitable,” said Wisconsin athletic director Barry Alvarez, who served on the CFP’s selection committee from 2014-2016. “When you can do it, and I think we need to serve more people. I think four was the right way to get started. In my opinion, we need to take a look of adding more teams into the Playoff, giving more opportunities.
.....
Some people with direct knowledge of the conversations involving commissioners, athletic directors and presidents declined to speak on the record because they feel they need to publicly support the current four-team model. Others feel they need to speak out in support of expansion to get the ball rolling. The midway point of the Playoff contract with ESPN — the 2020 season — is fast approaching. It would make sense to expand then, after the six semifinal bowls have all hosted an equal number of times.
....
Alvarez said the criteria for selection has been confusing, with the weight carried by conference championships and strength of schedule varying year to year or even week to week. The three leagues that have missed the Playoff multiple times all play nine-game conference schedules. Even the rankings have irked those keeping tabs on strength of schedule; Florida finished No. 10, earning a trip to a New Year’s Six bowl, with two of the Gators’ wins this season coming against FCS opponents.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
Garnett, what two loss SEC team has gotten into the CFPs? Answer none. No team should get into the 4 team CFPs with two losses and none have.
Your irrational SEC hatred knows no bounds. No matter what you do you can't erase 38-0 and 31-0, the scores the last two times the B10 got into the CFPs. Other than 2014, when the committee picks a B10 team they get destroyed by the elite competition. You keep talking about how great the B10 is as a conference but they can't seem to beat the best of the best when given the opportunity. For all your stats showing how the lesser rans in the B10 win against the bottom feeders in other power 5 conferences, it doesn't change what happens in the playoffs. 69-0 the last two times the B10 faced elite competition on the highest stage. Throw in Oklahoma thrashing OSU in 2017 and the B10 is 0-3 against playoff teams the last 4 years. If OSU had gotten in this year it would be 0-4, the B10 simply hasn't belonged.
OSU is 0-3 against CFP teams since 2015. Lost to MSU in 2015, lost to Clemson in 2016, lost to Oklahoma in 2017. Instead of whining about how the CFP committee isn't fair to OSU, maybe OSU needs to play better when facing CFP level competition. Heck, just beating the also-rans in your own conference would have given OSU even more chances to get blown out by the best teams in the country. Unfortunately, when you lose by 31 to Iowa and 29 to Purdue your team is telling the CFP committee everything they need to know.
I would have liked to have seen OSU in the CFP this year but they gave up against Purdue and didn't do as well as Oklahoma did against TCU (only common opponent). With 3 undefeated teams there was only 1 spot up for grabs and the blemishes on the OSU resume were too much to overcome.
@keets said:
what i learned from that article: there is a "Contract" between the CFP and ESPN.
what this tells me: suspected SEC bias is real.
I'll tell you what is real.
Bama was the 4th team picked last year and they haven't lost a game since then.
There is no SEC bias, we're just that good.
yes, Alabama is that good but ESPN and the "committee" exhibit bias regarding the conference. heck, it was only a few short years ago here, at this site, right here at this forum, that everyone was referring to ESPN as the SEC Network.
to that end, the Team and the Conference are only going to get better as National talent waits in line to get there.
The Bama vs Georgia game (CBS) was the #1 game of the year.....so far.
ESPN knows and goes to where the $$$ is. The SEC Network is huge, I'm watching Finebaum right now.
Fergie the BIG 10 hater, keeps bringing up Big ten results that happened almost three years ago. Totally different teams now before Haskins, and past years isn't supposed to have any bearing on a current year status. If it did, then Oklahoma would've been eliminated from this years playoff because the BIG 12 has won 0 playoff games. Every single year the committee has shown overblown sec favoritism. Alabama had no business being in the playoffs last year. All the fans got was a sec championship game #2. And its good to hear that the big shots are doing something about it.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
@garnettstyle said:
Fergie the BIG 10 hater, keeps bringing up Big ten results that happened almost three years ago. Totally different teams now before Haskins, and past years isn't supposed to have any bearing on a current year status. If it did, then Oklahoma would've been eliminated from this years playoff because the BIG 12 has won 0 playoff games. Every single year the committee has shown overblown sec favoritism. Alabama had no business being in the playoffs last year. All the fans got was a sec championship game #2. And its good to hear that the big shots are doing something about it.
Hey Garnett, I'll be pulling for the BIG10 when Purdue plays Auburn.
I hope they beat Auburn by 28. Then the Aubs can say we're better than OSU.
The two concepts - that Ohio didn't belong this year and that there's pro-SEC bias in the CFP selections now and the BCS previously - are not mutually exclusive.
In 2006, Florida was taken for the BCS title game over Michigan. The two had identical records (11-1) with Michigan's only loss being on the road at #1 by 3 pts, while Florida lost by 10 to the #11 team. They shared one common opponent - Vanderbilt. Florida won by 6. Michigan won by 20. Vanderbilt was asked and said that Michigan was, unquestionably, the better of the two teams. In the discussion before the BCS title game was announced, SEC fans protested the idea of a rematch in the title game and demanded Florida be included. They were heard and Florida rewarded them with a national title. They were a deserving champion - no argument.
In 2011, Alabama was taken over Oklahoma State for the BCS title game. The two had identical records (11-1) but shared no common opponents. Oklahoma State was a conference champion in the Big 12, while Alabama finished 3rd in the SEC, not playing in the conference title game. In addition, Oklahoma State had more FBS wins than Alabama (11 vs 10) since Alabama played FCS Georgia Southern. Alabama's loss was a poorly played, ugly, 9-6 loss at home to #1 LSU. Oklahoma State's loss was a 6-pt loss on the road to 6-7 Iowa State. In the discussions prior to the BCS game being announced, SEC fans now argued that rematches were OK and that Alabama should be given one despite already losing to LSU at home. The fact that Alabama didn't even play in their conference title game was also overlooked. Their voices were again heard and Alabama was picked. Another ugly game ensued and Alabama won the national title. Oklahoma State also won their bowl game, a thriller against #4 Stanford. It's not exaggerating to suggest, given LSU's performance in the BCS game, that Oklahoma State likely would have won that game as well.
To nearly identical situations, with the SEC team benefiting both times.
In other years, such as last season, the importance of playing in - win or lose - conference championship games comes and goes depending on how it benefits the SEC. In 2017, Alabama didn't play in theirs but made the CFP. Wisconsin, whose one loss came in a conference title game, was left at home. UCF, an undefeated conference champion, was left at home. Alabama was again selected and again won.
It cannot be overlooked that, in each example above, the possibly-undeserving SEC participant, won the national title. That is some vindication of the "just pick the best teams!" that we sometimes hear. However, it can also be argued that the teams left home in 2006 & 2011 would also have been victorious. And, no matter the outcome in 2017, a worthy champion would have been selected if Alabama hadn't been invited but UCF/UW had.
Having said all that, Ohio State has no argument for 2017. 2 losses, one of them a blowout, you stay home. Especially when there are multiple other worthy picks. This year, you've got basically 3 options for the fourth spot - Oklahoma, Ohio, and UCF. 3 conference champions, 1 of them undefeated against a weaker schedule. So you're basically left to consider resumes between Ohio and Oklahoma and compare losses. Ohio lost by 29 to 6-6 Purdue in a game that wasn't even that close. They also had close wins over Penn State and an uninspired win over a not-good Nebraska team. In addition, but for a missed wide open 2-pt conversion, Ohio loses to a not-good Maryland team. Oklahoma's one loss was by 3 to their top rival in a neutral site game, 19th-ranked Texas who would end up being 9-4. They had two other close wins, by 1 pt thanks to a broken up 2-pt conversion against Oklahoma State, and a 3-pt win on the road against #12 WVU. Clearly, Ohio's loss is a lot worse than Oklahoma's. Throw out the 1-pt wins as being basically equal. That leaves "close wins", and clearly 3 pts over WVU is a lot better than 5 over Nebraska.
At the end of the day, I don't see much of an argument for Ohio over Oklahoma.
So, IMHO, you can recognize pro-SEC bias while also recognizing if somebody's getting shafted, it's not Ohio.
Tabe, of course most of you TTUN fans didn't want OSU in the playoffs. Even after they spanked you guys once again. Ohio State were more deserving than Oklahoma. The Big 10 is a stronger conference than the BIG 12, and Ohio State had better wins(Michigan, Penn State) than Oklahoma. Oklahoma's best win was west Virginia. Oh boy, what has that team ever won? Oklahoma just did not look very impressive down the stretch. While the Buckeyes manhandled both TTUN and Northwestern by 3 TD'S.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
You won't believe me but... if I honestly felt Ohio was the better pick and had the stronger case, I would say so. There's no question, Ohio had the best win (against Michigan). I just feel that's more than offset by the bad loss, the near-loss, and the general malaise that afflicted the middle of the season. You disagree. No problem. I'll give you credit for being sincere in your opinion and not blinded by the bias your username would suggest.
I just believe if you have two teams that are equal (OSU, 12-1 CONF CHAMPS---OKLAHOMA 12-1 CONF CHAMPS), the team that played in the stronger conference should've been picked. And there is no question the BIG TEN has been one of the 2 best conferences over the past couple of years.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
@garnettstyle said:
I just believe if you have two teams that are equal (OSU, 12-1 CONF CHAMPS---OKLAHOMA 12-1 CONF CHAMPS), the team that played in the stronger conference should've been picked. And there is no question the BIG TEN has been one of the 2 best conferences over the past couple of years.
A 16 team playoff is doable. It may bring more importance to some bowl games. At minimum go to 8 teams. All conference Champs and the selection committee can pick the best three at large teams from the SEC to fill out the spots.
Comments
lol fake news. Cupcake conference funny. Big Ten went 3-1 against the soft sec last year and the sec had a losing record against the non-conference power five. BIG TEN has the best record against the non con power five the last two years. Enjoy your fake playoffs. Oh and Urban has a winning record against nicky so he doesn't run from anybody. Nice try. Zeke put up 220 yds on the ground against your fluff defense.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
Nicky looks unhappy about his defense.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9WwaeV9IoA
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
I guess it would've been better scheduling an FCS opponent like the Citadel, instead of Oklahoma. That way, OSU would've had 1 loss like alabama. AND 3 TOP 15 WINS. Bama had ZERO top 15 wins AND lost to their rival. They had no business being in the playoffs and the majority agreed. Oh and OSU BEAT their rival.
And 2018 Ohio State played 12 power 5 opponents, while the Tide played against 10.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
One and only....and how do you always put it,
BTW...that hurts, you will pay.....
Saban ran Meyer out of the SEC after Bama stomped him and Tebow. He knew he couldn't hang with Saban and the SEC so he faked heart problems and ran as fast as he could.
I just state the facts Jack
Bullsitter, i like you and try to get along so just link me up to the "facts, Jack" because i think you're more full of crap than the proverbial Christmas Turkey.
Why did he leave then?
dude, it's your BS story, not mine. I suppose it might be in the realm of possibility that he had heart problems, but i doubt Nick Saban chased him out and he "faked" an ailment as an excuse. that's a bit over the top. I get that you don't like the man but that's not a good reason to impugn his integrity with made up stuff.
maybe you should join the guys at the US Forum who are making up CAC stories. as for this, it really isn't important enough to me to research, you should do that since you seem to care enough to make stuff up or believe in rumors.
I'm gonna go with Rodney from CA and hope we can just get along.
Maybe I shouldn't have said "faked".
I should have said he used it as an excuse to leave Florida.
Just think if everybody that had heart pains quit their jobs.....
Bullsitter probably heard the story on fake ESECPN.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
I guess it would've been better scheduling an FCS opponent like the Citadel, instead of Oklahoma. That way, OSU would've had 1 loss like alabama. AND 3 TOP 15 WINS. Bama had ZERO top 15 wins AND lost to their rival. They had no business being in the playoffs and the majority agreed. Oh and OSU BEAT their rival. And 2018 Ohio State played 12 power 5 opponents, while the Tide played against 10.
No majority agreed with you, unless you count the majority of OSU fans.
Yup ignoring the two losses last year which is basically par for the course with you Garnett. Alabama scheduled FSU in 2017 who were ranked #3 in the preseason. Of course, FSU ended up being terrible last year but that isn't Alabama's fault. As for comparing Alabama and OSU in 2018, OSU got manhandled by un-ranked Purdue 49-20 and Alabama was undefeated which is where the comparison starts and stops.
You also seem to be forgetting that 2017 Alabama went 2-0 against the top 4. Seems like the CFP committee got it right. In 2014 after OSU got in over Baylor and TCU you used the fact that OSU won it all to justify their placement in the top 4.
Your 2015 OSU team schedule Va Tech (6-6), Hawaii (3-10), Northern Illinois (8-5) and Western Michigan (7-5). None of which were ranked. So it is not like OSU only schedules tough non-conference opponents.
The last 3 years the B10 teams haven't belonged with the big boys. The 2015 MSU team that beat OSU was destroyed 38-0 by Alabama. That 2015 MSU team also had 3 TOP 15 WINS but they couldn't play with Alabama. The 2016 OSU team was destroyed 31-0 by Clemson. The 2017 OSU B10 champion, not in the playoffs, lost 31-16 to CFP #2 seed Oklahoma at home. 2017 Oklahoma lost to Georgia in the CFP semi-finals. Pretty clear to any outside observer that the B10 just hasn't had an elite team that could hang with the best of the best.
The funny thing about these discussions is that I don't even like Alabama. Before the CFP I felt that the SEC was over hyped and over rated. Of course, in 4 years of the CFPs the SEC has gone 6-3 with 2 national championships and 4 teams in the final game. Big10 has gone 2-2 with one national championship and one team in the final game and two of the 3 worst blow out losses in CFP history.
Robb
Please tell me what top 4 teams Alabama beat to deserve a playoff spot?? This is the final 2017 rankings. As you can see, OSU beat THREE top 15 teams BEFORE the playoff selection as per the final rankings. Bama ---ZERO top 15 wins. Pre-season rankings mean nothing.
And your bashing of the 2015 OSU getting beat by MSU also holds no water. By your logic, OLE MISS then should've been in the playoffs over Alabama, because they defeated Alabama during the regular season. Nice try.
Alabama
Georgia
Oklahoma
Clemson
Ohio State
UCF
Wisconsin
Penn State
TCU
Auburn
Notre Dame
USC
Miami (Fla.)
Oklahoma State
Michigan State
Washington
Northwestern
LSU
Mississippi State
Stanford
South Florida
Boise State
NC State
Virginia Tech
Memphis
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
That 2015 MSU team also had 3 TOP 15 WINS but they couldn't play with Alabama.
I hope you seriously cant really be that ignorant? Anyone with half of a brain, knows that the only reason why MSU made the playoffs in 2015, was because of possibly the biggest fluke play in the history of college football.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
Remember when the Rose Bowl meant something?
what I remember about the Rose Bowl: it was referred to as the "Granddaddy of them all" when the hype got revved up, the PAC 10 seemed to be more relevant with dominance by USC and UCLA and the Big 10 actually had 10 Teams and no Divisions, everyone played each other(same for the PAC 10). it was a formula which ensured that the best Teams of each Conference played each other.
I also seem to recall that there was a rule in effect which stated that no Big 10 Team could play in consecutive seasons.
I think it has changed over the years, now it's just one of many big Bowls, but I think the current Playoff structure has done some negative things for College Football. without sounding paranoid or biased, the "Power" in NCAA D1 Football has shifted to three Bowls --- Orange, Sugar, Cotton --- and to the Conferences those tend to represent in the South and Southeast.
it is a noticeable shift. the "Power" used to be across the North/Upper Midwest and out on the West Coast, as far as the Teams, with the games being in the warmer South. the West Coast has really suffered because the players don't seem to go there anymore. that shift is slowly happening in the Big 10 and I think the Coaching change at OSU will prove that out in the next year or two. the SEC Teams along with the ACC and Big 12 will be the beneficiary of that. what is already "strength" in those conferences will only get stronger.
And yet a win is a win including 2015 MSU beating your OSU Buckeyes and keeping them out of the playoffs.
2017 OSU lost two games. They had their shot at a playoff team and got trounced by Oklahoma at home. They then followed it up by being embarrassed by Iowa. Garnett, I know you like to pretend the games OSU lost didn't happen but sadly for OSU and their fans you can't live in Buckeye fairy tale land.
Robb
One consistency the committee has had is that no two loss team has made the playoffs. I believe that is a good thing. I would also like to see disqualified teams that fail to even play for their conference title. They basically come in no better than third in their conference but are playing for the championship. Yes I know this would have applied to the Buckeyes.
http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/
Ralph
Um, Urban won over 90% of his games at OSU. Who else has done that?
When Clemson lost to a 4 win team last year, you never said anything about them not being deserving. You're just a delusional Buckeye hater.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
If Oklahoma would've lost to Texas, a two loss sec team would've gotten in this year over a one loss conference champion. The ONLY consistency that the committee has shown is their huge bias towards the sec. And the reason why I refuse to watch this years Holiday invitational playoffs.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
Always saying IF
If Alabama would've lost to Georgia, two one loss sec teams would've gotten in this year over a one loss conference champion.
Reason:
1. Georgia lost to #11 LSU
2. Bama lost to #4 Georgia
3. OSU lost to unranked Purdue
But that's in the IF world. Coach Saban doesn't answer IF questions, he has me do it.
SOS Member #17,847 (Sons of Saban)…..
Which is nonsense because a conference championship game is considered a POST-season game. In what other world do you have a loser advance after a post-season loss? We need a better system.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
this is why the current "system" by this "committee" to decide the National Champion need to be restructured. there is just no logical reason why a Team that can't win its Conference Championship should play for the National Championship. no matter what has happened in the past, no matter what happens in the future, it just shouldn't happen.
I realize it's different from NCAA basketball in that there are 4 teams instead of 68 but same principle applies there... the "best" team wins the tournament. Football just has a painfully small "tournament." Winning a conference doesn't make a team more worthy to win the national championship. I don't recall who won the Pac-12 championship this year but they don't belong in a 4 or even an 8 team playoff... and maybe not even a 16 team playoff. Until you get up to at least 16 teams the conference championship just needs to be a factor in deciding who the best teams are. No automatic entry into the tourney. This year there were three teams that were very close to each other for the 4th spot. Fans of each team could make a case why their team was most deserving and they were all right. Ultimately a group of "smart people" decides who is the "best" 4 teams. I grant you the system is far from perfect but I think we are closer to determining the best team than 20 years ago.
Keets, with only 4 teams allowed in I agree that for teams with a conference championship they should have to win it to play in the playoffs. Unfortunately, the CFP committee made an exception for OSU in 2016 and that opened the door. Once opened those doors are notoriously difficult to close. The sooner we go to an 8 team playoff the better.
Robb
Robb, you are right. also, I would be all for a 16 Team Playoff and it would only add two weekends and two games for the ultimate Champion.
I'd go 8 teams at the most, these guys take a beating.....RTR...
Reasons why OSU got picked over Penn State was because one team had 2 losses. And the one loss team played a tough schedule. However both teams could've gotten in, but that scenario only goes to sec teams.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
EXCLUSIVE: Fed up with SEC favoritism and UCF's treatment, some important commissioners, presidents and ADs are ready to talk 8-team playoff.
https://theathletic.com/708538/2018/12/12/college-football-playoff-expansion-eight-team-support/
This article is from the athletic (so requires subscription), but a couple of points from the article below:
“Everyone has the same feeling; expansion is inevitable,” said Wisconsin athletic director Barry Alvarez, who served on the CFP’s selection committee from 2014-2016. “When you can do it, and I think we need to serve more people. I think four was the right way to get started. In my opinion, we need to take a look of adding more teams into the Playoff, giving more opportunities.
.....
Some people with direct knowledge of the conversations involving commissioners, athletic directors and presidents declined to speak on the record because they feel they need to publicly support the current four-team model. Others feel they need to speak out in support of expansion to get the ball rolling. The midway point of the Playoff contract with ESPN — the 2020 season — is fast approaching. It would make sense to expand then, after the six semifinal bowls have all hosted an equal number of times.
....
Alvarez said the criteria for selection has been confusing, with the weight carried by conference championships and strength of schedule varying year to year or even week to week. The three leagues that have missed the Playoff multiple times all play nine-game conference schedules. Even the rankings have irked those keeping tabs on strength of schedule; Florida finished No. 10, earning a trip to a New Year’s Six bowl, with two of the Gators’ wins this season coming against FCS opponents.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
Garnett, what two loss SEC team has gotten into the CFPs? Answer none. No team should get into the 4 team CFPs with two losses and none have.
Your irrational SEC hatred knows no bounds. No matter what you do you can't erase 38-0 and 31-0, the scores the last two times the B10 got into the CFPs. Other than 2014, when the committee picks a B10 team they get destroyed by the elite competition. You keep talking about how great the B10 is as a conference but they can't seem to beat the best of the best when given the opportunity. For all your stats showing how the lesser rans in the B10 win against the bottom feeders in other power 5 conferences, it doesn't change what happens in the playoffs. 69-0 the last two times the B10 faced elite competition on the highest stage. Throw in Oklahoma thrashing OSU in 2017 and the B10 is 0-3 against playoff teams the last 4 years. If OSU had gotten in this year it would be 0-4, the B10 simply hasn't belonged.
OSU is 0-3 against CFP teams since 2015. Lost to MSU in 2015, lost to Clemson in 2016, lost to Oklahoma in 2017. Instead of whining about how the CFP committee isn't fair to OSU, maybe OSU needs to play better when facing CFP level competition. Heck, just beating the also-rans in your own conference would have given OSU even more chances to get blown out by the best teams in the country. Unfortunately, when you lose by 31 to Iowa and 29 to Purdue your team is telling the CFP committee everything they need to know.
I would have liked to have seen OSU in the CFP this year but they gave up against Purdue and didn't do as well as Oklahoma did against TCU (only common opponent). With 3 undefeated teams there was only 1 spot up for grabs and the blemishes on the OSU resume were too much to overcome.
Robb
what i learned from that article: there is a "Contract" between the CFP and ESPN.
what this tells me: suspected SEC bias is real.
I'll tell you what is real.
Bama was the 4th team picked last year and they haven't lost a game since then.
There is no SEC bias, we're just that good.
yes, Alabama is that good but ESPN and the "committee" exhibit bias regarding the conference. heck, it was only a few short years ago here, at this site, right here at this forum, that everyone was referring to ESPN as the SEC Network.
to that end, the Team and the Conference are only going to get better as National talent waits in line to get there.
The Bama vs Georgia game (CBS) was the #1 game of the year.....so far.
ESPN knows and goes to where the $$$ is. The SEC Network is huge, I'm watching Finebaum right now.
Fergie the BIG 10 hater, keeps bringing up Big ten results that happened almost three years ago. Totally different teams now before Haskins, and past years isn't supposed to have any bearing on a current year status. If it did, then Oklahoma would've been eliminated from this years playoff because the BIG 12 has won 0 playoff games. Every single year the committee has shown overblown sec favoritism. Alabama had no business being in the playoffs last year. All the fans got was a sec championship game #2. And its good to hear that the big shots are doing something about it.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
Hey Garnett, I'll be pulling for the BIG10 when Purdue plays Auburn.
I hope they beat Auburn by 28. Then the Aubs can say we're better than OSU.
The two concepts - that Ohio didn't belong this year and that there's pro-SEC bias in the CFP selections now and the BCS previously - are not mutually exclusive.
In 2006, Florida was taken for the BCS title game over Michigan. The two had identical records (11-1) with Michigan's only loss being on the road at #1 by 3 pts, while Florida lost by 10 to the #11 team. They shared one common opponent - Vanderbilt. Florida won by 6. Michigan won by 20. Vanderbilt was asked and said that Michigan was, unquestionably, the better of the two teams. In the discussion before the BCS title game was announced, SEC fans protested the idea of a rematch in the title game and demanded Florida be included. They were heard and Florida rewarded them with a national title. They were a deserving champion - no argument.
In 2011, Alabama was taken over Oklahoma State for the BCS title game. The two had identical records (11-1) but shared no common opponents. Oklahoma State was a conference champion in the Big 12, while Alabama finished 3rd in the SEC, not playing in the conference title game. In addition, Oklahoma State had more FBS wins than Alabama (11 vs 10) since Alabama played FCS Georgia Southern. Alabama's loss was a poorly played, ugly, 9-6 loss at home to #1 LSU. Oklahoma State's loss was a 6-pt loss on the road to 6-7 Iowa State. In the discussions prior to the BCS game being announced, SEC fans now argued that rematches were OK and that Alabama should be given one despite already losing to LSU at home. The fact that Alabama didn't even play in their conference title game was also overlooked. Their voices were again heard and Alabama was picked. Another ugly game ensued and Alabama won the national title. Oklahoma State also won their bowl game, a thriller against #4 Stanford. It's not exaggerating to suggest, given LSU's performance in the BCS game, that Oklahoma State likely would have won that game as well.
To nearly identical situations, with the SEC team benefiting both times.
In other years, such as last season, the importance of playing in - win or lose - conference championship games comes and goes depending on how it benefits the SEC. In 2017, Alabama didn't play in theirs but made the CFP. Wisconsin, whose one loss came in a conference title game, was left at home. UCF, an undefeated conference champion, was left at home. Alabama was again selected and again won.
It cannot be overlooked that, in each example above, the possibly-undeserving SEC participant, won the national title. That is some vindication of the "just pick the best teams!" that we sometimes hear. However, it can also be argued that the teams left home in 2006 & 2011 would also have been victorious. And, no matter the outcome in 2017, a worthy champion would have been selected if Alabama hadn't been invited but UCF/UW had.
Having said all that, Ohio State has no argument for 2017. 2 losses, one of them a blowout, you stay home. Especially when there are multiple other worthy picks. This year, you've got basically 3 options for the fourth spot - Oklahoma, Ohio, and UCF. 3 conference champions, 1 of them undefeated against a weaker schedule. So you're basically left to consider resumes between Ohio and Oklahoma and compare losses. Ohio lost by 29 to 6-6 Purdue in a game that wasn't even that close. They also had close wins over Penn State and an uninspired win over a not-good Nebraska team. In addition, but for a missed wide open 2-pt conversion, Ohio loses to a not-good Maryland team. Oklahoma's one loss was by 3 to their top rival in a neutral site game, 19th-ranked Texas who would end up being 9-4. They had two other close wins, by 1 pt thanks to a broken up 2-pt conversion against Oklahoma State, and a 3-pt win on the road against #12 WVU. Clearly, Ohio's loss is a lot worse than Oklahoma's. Throw out the 1-pt wins as being basically equal. That leaves "close wins", and clearly 3 pts over WVU is a lot better than 5 over Nebraska.
At the end of the day, I don't see much of an argument for Ohio over Oklahoma.
So, IMHO, you can recognize pro-SEC bias while also recognizing if somebody's getting shafted, it's not Ohio.
Tabe, of course most of you TTUN fans didn't want OSU in the playoffs. Even after they spanked you guys once again. Ohio State were more deserving than Oklahoma. The Big 10 is a stronger conference than the BIG 12, and Ohio State had better wins(Michigan, Penn State) than Oklahoma. Oklahoma's best win was west Virginia. Oh boy, what has that team ever won? Oklahoma just did not look very impressive down the stretch. While the Buckeyes manhandled both TTUN and Northwestern by 3 TD'S.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
You won't believe me but... if I honestly felt Ohio was the better pick and had the stronger case, I would say so. There's no question, Ohio had the best win (against Michigan). I just feel that's more than offset by the bad loss, the near-loss, and the general malaise that afflicted the middle of the season. You disagree. No problem. I'll give you credit for being sincere in your opinion and not blinded by the bias your username would suggest.
I just believe if you have two teams that are equal (OSU, 12-1 CONF CHAMPS---OKLAHOMA 12-1 CONF CHAMPS), the team that played in the stronger conference should've been picked. And there is no question the BIG TEN has been one of the 2 best conferences over the past couple of years.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
BTW....that's Ronda Rousey.....
Fair enough.
Glad people like Alvarez are making the case and pointing out the flaws with the current system
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
A 16 team playoff is doable. It may bring more importance to some bowl games. At minimum go to 8 teams. All conference Champs and the selection committee can pick the best three at large teams from the SEC to fill out the spots.
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Ralph
Probably what would happen
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
Well, Georgia Southern whipped Eastern Michigan last night.
South - 1
North - 0
SEC program turns away from UCF. University of Florida refuses to schedule home and home or any neutral site game.
https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/college/article223201345.html
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/report-ohio-state-is-the-front-runner-to-land-georgia-qb-transfer-justin-fields/ar-BBR7RAU?li=BBnba9I&ocid=UE12DHP
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
You talking about this Justin Fields?
To be fair, UF offered a 2 & 1 deal to UCF, an offer that UCF turned down.