The Mint is playing the market! I sent back over 40 sets the first week due to damaged outer packaging. These were the sets bought at the Mint booth in Denver that I didn't open until leaving the show. They were unsaleable as is but with new packaging they would be perfectly fine as the coins and plastic holders were fine. I'd bet the Mint ordered more packaging to resell the sets that were fine. I even included a note with the returns explaining that if the paper packaging were replaced the sets would be fine! Only time will tell but I bet these are back on sale again. No way do I believe 20k+ sets were damaged to the point of being unsaleable.
Very unlikely that the Mint will go through the expense of ordering more packaging. The contract with the Vendor has been fulfilled, regardless of how many had flaws. That's an issue between the Mint & the Chinese Vendor. Since the coins are not bullion coins, it would be much less expensive to destroy them instead of having them repackaged.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
@OPA said:
Very unlikely that the Mint will go through the expense of ordering more packaging. The contract with the Vendor has been fulfilled, regardless of how many had flaws. That's an issue between the Mint & the Chinese Vendor. Since the coins are not bullion coins, it would be much less expensive to destroy them instead of having them repackaged.
Don't get too excited Coin Fans. I get the feeling those other 20,000 are about to be placed back on the shelf. The inspection/repackaging process is about complete.
Anyone got any need for about a Ton of broken plastic? Remember the Waffled Coins Craze! CERTIFIED US Mint scrap Plastic could be worth more than the intact Sets one day.
@nurmaler said:
imo, this definitely has to do with returns slowing vs a jump in purchases.
Returns would be reflected in sales, not in inventory.
The 796 sets sold since yesterday is right in line with the average for the past week.
So, less than 100 sometime this evening or tomorrow morning...
Backroad, why don't you just buy all the remaining sets?
d2
'Cause it would make the 8 sets I'm into this product worthless.
(On the other hand, if I had an extra $21K sitting around.... I still wouldn't buy 700 of these things. )
My friend was offered 500 sets @ 27.95 from another dealer .. he just laughed ,his buy price is $25
Your friend is very generous. No dealer I know pays more than 20% back of retail on mint products, most 30%. At $30 per set, I'd imagine most dealers are paying $21-24.
Ask him what he is paying for ANY U.S. mint product that is still for sale on the website. I bet he's paying even less for 2017 regular proof and mint sets. It's really a meaningless number until the Mint stops selling them.
225th sets Sales will end at the earliest .......end of 2017 .... Mint holding back sets for Christmas . Specs holding many sets
25,000 damaged sets???? LOL you mean flippers returned them because they did not want their financial health damaged holding sets
I didn't call them damaged sets. I called them "missing sets". I imagine many do have issues or need inspection.
Flippers are ALWAYS weak hands, by definition. They panicked and created a debacle. It will sort out in time.
The greater loss would be tossing out the aets ,, Mint would
Any one have Mint connections? I wonder if were could talk them into selling the impaired sets as impaired sets? Cheaper than trying to rehab them and I don't care about any of the packaging.
It just kills some people if this set has any popularity.
Anyway, I think the Mint is better served selling all the returned sets as is at $10 each rather than trying to rehab them to sell at $30 each.
Let's assume the Mint breaks even at $30. [There annual report says they lose money, but let's assume they break even.]
Quick, rough calculation:
Cost of coins - about $3.50
Cost of special finish - $1-2 million over 200,000 coins is $5-$10 per set. [Admittedly, I'm spitballing here, but based on pricing of standard proof sets vs. mint sets vs. EU sets: Mint sets sell at $20.95, standard proof at $6 more, EU at $3 above proof If you assume that half of the proof set costs is die finish and half packaging, then you've got $3 over 400,000 units or $1.2 million. at $3 over 200,000 that's $600,000 more for EU, so at most $2 million for the dies.]
Cost of packaging/administration/fulfillment etc: $16.50 to 21.50 per set
Cost of rehab? Probably pretty close to the $20 per set. Some of the administration costs are already paid, BUT:
1) Getting the coins out of cracked plastic and into new plastic is probably more labor intensive than original placement.
2) Unit costs for cardboard boxes, COAs and plastic inserts is going to be higher on a smaller second order.
So, it is actually better for the Mint to sell "impaired sets" at $10 each than try to rehab them and sell them at $30.
@Manorcourtman said:
The Mint is playing the market! I sent back over 40 sets the first week due to damaged outer packaging. These were the sets bought at the Mint booth in Denver that I didn't open until leaving the show. They were unsaleable as is but with new packaging they would be perfectly fine as the coins and plastic holders were fine. I'd bet the Mint ordered more packaging to resell the sets that were fine. I even included a note with the returns explaining that if the paper packaging were replaced the sets would be fine! Only time will tell but I bet these are back on sale again. No way do I believe 20k+ sets were damaged to the point of being unsaleable.
It's about 25K sets.
Pretend you have 500 rolls of cents in front of you. Every cent in those 500 rolls represents an EU set. Each set would have all 10 coins inspected, along with the boxes, COA's and lenses for defects/problems and replaced if necessary.
The other really big problem, is none of the lenses are sealed. There was an enterprising twit on an unnamed blog, who happily replaced an EU dollar coin (I think in a C&C set) with a circulating example, returned it to the mint and got a full refund. The people who have to go through those sets would have to recognize what is and is not a legit coin for this set.
Do you really think PFSWeb has the resources for that? Do you think PFSWeb even has the expertise?
It would be much cheaper and easier for San Francisco to restrike the 25K sets after their next audit. After all, there is no component in the EU set that isn't in a regular proof set (or silver proof set) except for the box and COA, which are both easily made and printed. It would only take a few days for the entire process.
I think if the 25K sets do appear, they'll be minty fresh sets. Whether or not they do is the question...
There was an enterprising twit on an unnamed blog, who happily replaced an EU dollar coin (I think in a C&C set) with a circulating example, returned it to the mint and got a full refund. The people who have to go through those sets would have to recognize what is and is not a legit coin for this set.
Well that was freaking lame...especially if they resold it
@OPA said:
Very unlikely that the Mint will go through the expense of ordering more packaging. The contract with the Vendor has been fulfilled, regardless of how many had flaws. That's an issue between the Mint & the Chinese Vendor. Since the coins are not bullion coins, it would be much less expensive to destroy them instead of having them repackaged.
What am I missing here?
~HABE FIDUCIAM IN DOMINO III V VI / III XVI~ POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
@OPA said:
Very unlikely that the Mint will go through the expense of ordering more packaging. The contract with the Vendor has been fulfilled, regardless of how many had flaws. That's an issue between the Mint & the Chinese Vendor. Since the coins are not bullion coins, it would be much less expensive to destroy them instead of having them repackaged.
What am I missing here?
Simple speculation.
Frankly, I don't think there is an inexpensive option for the mint. As I mentioned above, it's going to cost $10-$20 to rehab sets IF IF IF they need anything more than an inspection. It probably costs $15-20 to mint them again from existing dies. And it probably costs at least $10 to trash them IF IF IF they insist on waffling them.
I'd be willing to bet there will be some changes as a result of the return fiasco. I don't know how or what they're going to do. But between panicky flippers and fussy ass people who sent back anything that wasn't a "70", not to mention people imagining defects due to the optics of the plastics, the Mint lost a ton of money on this issue and they aren't going to want a repeat.
They may change the return policy. They may change the distribution policy. They may change the "recycling" policy. But I imagine they are considering the options now.
The bar for returns (ie....reason/cost) should be, imho, higher for those that are returning 10+ units.
Those that are buying/returning a few, or less, aren't likely to be playing a game as much as those that are ordering many more.
Kind of what happened with the purchase of precious metal coins some years back. Used to fall under the 30 day return window. Was completely abused by some people (PM volatility made it so that you could purchase, hope for a big increase, sell the item, and move on....or, worse case scenario, return it by day 30 and lose nothing but maybe shipping).
Screwed everyone else over as the mint made the changes we currently see (pricing and return changes)
@jmlanzaf said:
So, it is actually better for the Mint to sell "impaired sets" at $10 each than try to rehab them and sell them at $30.
Can you imagine the PR nightmare the Mint will face if they do such a thing? Everyone who paid $30 for a set would be furious, and rightly so. And anyone who snagged one or more sets at $10 each would be in instant profit territory - the Lincoln cents alone are currently selling for at least $10 each raw, and so are the Kennedy halves.
@jmlanzaf said:
So, it is actually better for the Mint to sell "impaired sets" at $10 each than try to rehab them and sell them at $30.
Can you imagine the PR nightmare the Mint will face if they do such a thing? Everyone who paid $30 for a set would be furious, and rightly so. And anyone who snagged one or more sets at $10 each would be in instant profit territory - the Lincoln cents alone are currently selling for at least $10 each raw, and so are the Kennedy halves.
I wouldn't sell them to the public. I would sell them to re-sellers. Let them sell the single coins to collectors.
But, they are either "impaired" sets or they aren't. Pretty common in retail to sell impaired merchandise at often steep discounts. If they aren't truly impaired, they should be able to simply toss them back up for sale.
But, that is why I think they are likely to just scrap them...even though that is more expensive than my idea.
@dmwest said:
I think a couple hundred more will pop up and then be done on 9/19. Mint will come back with 202k sold.
d2
Possible. Although don't they have to come up with a few thousand more, not a few hundred? Based on sales through Sunday and the number available this week, it doesn't seem like more than 197,000 have been sold so far.
Possible. Although don't they have to come up with a few thousand more, not a few hundred? Based on sales through Sunday and the number available this week, it doesn't seem like more than 197,000 have been sold so far.
I readily agree my math sucks. But then, so did this whole selling thing the Mint tried.
my guess is the mint isn't going to package any more than are packaged. I imagine a good many of the returns were replacements. So, 2 out of inventory and only accounting for sales of 1. Since they were replacement, I'm imagining the mint WILL NOT resell them for reasons such as imperfections, packaging, or coins that were missing or swapped in the return process. Integrity of the mint is probably pretty important and I seriously doubt they will spend the time or effort to figure out which coins in the returned sets are good enough to go back out. They may have some deal with a large company to sell the damaged/returned sets at a discount but they might have to buy them all (maybe a company that gold plates them or something) but i just don't see the mint sticking their heads out to get additional sets released. However, I also imagine that the mint has produced more than 225k to account for a certain number of returned/damaged sets. Those may be the ones that are put up for sale again when they get a grasp of how many they expect to have after the most recent orders are fulfilled. That being said, i think they have had enough time to get a grasp of that number by now so I imagine any additional sets made available will be in the hundreds, not thousands.
I'll put a second set up as a giveaway if they sell more than 1,000 after the next set of numbers are released this coming week.
@jmlanzaf said:
I wouldn't sell them to the public. I would sell them to re-sellers. Let them sell the single coins to collectors.
I think that would create an even worse PR situation, selling "impaired" sets to privileged buyers at a steep discount so that these privileged buyers could immediately resell them to collectors at a guaranteed profit.
@jmlanzaf said:
Mr. Mint, if you're listening, I'll take all the impaired sets, as is at $10 each.
So would anyone else. If the Mint wanted to "dump" the impaired sets, they could easily find buyers at considerably more than $10 per set. But the short-term profit would be dwarfed by the loss of customer goodwill.
@jessewvu said:
my guess is the mint isn't going to package any more than are packaged. I imagine a good many of the returns were replacements. So, 2 out of inventory and only accounting for sales of 1. Since they were replacement, I'm imagining the mint WILL NOT resell them for reasons such as imperfections, packaging, or coins that were missing or swapped in the return process. Integrity of the mint is probably pretty important and I seriously doubt they will spend the time or effort to figure out which coins in the returned sets are good enough to go back out. They may have some deal with a large company to sell the damaged/returned sets at a discount but they might have to buy them all (maybe a company that gold plates them or something) but i just don't see the mint sticking their heads out to get additional sets released. However, I also imagine that the mint has produced more than 225k to account for a certain number of returned/damaged sets. Those may be the ones that are put up for sale again when they get a grasp of how many they expect to have after the most recent orders are fulfilled. That being said, i think they have had enough time to get a grasp of that number by now so I imagine any additional sets made available will be in the hundreds, not thousands.
I'll put a second set up as a giveaway if they sell more than 1,000 after the next set of numbers are released this coming week.
I mostly agree. The real issue we're having is the numbers. If they actually made 250,000 (hypothetically) to account for returns, the fact that it is currently unavailable suggests more than 50,000 returns in a pile somewhere. If they only sold 225,000 and have 25,000 virgin sets in reserve, then why is it "unavailable"?
@jmlanzaf said:
I wouldn't sell them to the public. I would sell them to re-sellers. Let them sell the single coins to collectors.
I think that would create an even worse PR situation, selling "impaired" sets to privileged buyers at a steep discount so that these privileged buyers could immediately resell them to collectors at a guaranteed profit.
@jmlanzaf said:
Mr. Mint, if you're listening, I'll take all the impaired sets, as is at $10 each.
So would anyone else. If the Mint wanted to "dump" the impaired sets, they could easily find buyers at considerably more than $10 per set. But the short-term profit would be dwarfed by the loss of customer goodwill.
Of course.
I would presume they would dump them on the major distributors. They already get a discount and no one would really notice the sets sneaking in through that particular door.
As a taxpayer, I'd be okay with that. I'm mostly mad at the people returning thousands of the things in a panic at my expense! The problem with any other remedy is that it costs me the taxpayer more. Even just trashing them is expensive, especially when the coins are perfectly fine. [Assuming, of course, that there is something wrong with the packaging.]
@jmlanzaf said:
I wouldn't sell them to the public. I would sell them to re-sellers. Let them sell the single coins to collectors.
I think that would create an even worse PR situation, selling "impaired" sets to privileged buyers at a steep discount so that these privileged buyers could immediately resell them to collectors at a guaranteed profit.
@jmlanzaf said:
Mr. Mint, if you're listening, I'll take all the impaired sets, as is at $10 each.
So would anyone else. If the Mint wanted to "dump" the impaired sets, they could easily find buyers at considerably more than $10 per set. But the short-term profit would be dwarfed by the loss of customer goodwill.
By the way, if you don't like $10 per set, what is the right price? It's also not so clear they could find buyers at "considerably more" than $10 per set. Breaking up the sets and selling the coins singly is a lot of work. I wouldn't pay $25 for that headache, would you? $20? Not me. $15, maybe.
@jmlanzaf said:
By the way, if you don't like $10 per set, what is the right price? It's also not so clear they could find buyers at "considerably more" than $10 per set. Breaking up the sets and selling the coins singly is a lot of work. I wouldn't pay $25 for that headache, would you? $20? Not me. $15, maybe.
The Mint could maybe sell impaired sets at $25 each without stirring up a hornet's nest. They were selling intact sets for $30 each at the rate of about 700 a day until the recent sellout. Many collectors have deliberately "impaired" their own sets, breaking them up to obtain individual coins for their series sets, or to submit to TPGs for grading. This tells me that nearly all the value is in the coins themselves, not the packaging.
@jmlanzaf said:
By the way, if you don't like $10 per set, what is the right price? It's also not so clear they could find buyers at "considerably more" than $10 per set. Breaking up the sets and selling the coins singly is a lot of work. I wouldn't pay $25 for that headache, would you? $20? Not me. $15, maybe.
The Mint could maybe sell impaired sets at $25 each without stirring up a hornet's nest. They were selling intact sets for $30 each at the rate of about 700 a day until the recent sellout. Many collectors have deliberately "impaired" their own sets, breaking them up to obtain individual coins for their series sets, or to submit to TPGs for grading. This tells me that nearly all the value is in the coins themselves, not the packaging.
Except that how many sets were returned because of minor damage to boxes? Some people, like me, don't care about the packaging. Others do.
I don't really expect them to do it, even though it's common in retail. On the other hand, no one in retail would undertake every year to sell 400,000 units of something that LOSES money! They would have either raised the prices or phased out proof sets. So, I guess we can't (ever) expect government to behave like a business.
Another option.
Instead of selling the damaged sets.
They could sell the "good" individual coins.
Say the dime or nickel in the set is damaged, then sell the other 8 coins, individually at $3 each, which would correspond to the $30/10 coins.
This way the Mint could recoup some of their losses.
They take all the returned sets, and put them through a shredder. Then sell the shredded remains for $5 an ounce.
I'd buy a bag.
I think everyone should keep in mind that the Mint Store isn't tasked to make a profit. They just have to insure it doesn't cost the taxpayers any money. They could have trashed all 225K, and it would still have fulfilled that goal.
In the grand scheme of the Department of the Treasury, the loss on those 25K sets would be less than a rounding error. It may not even be noticed on the P&L sheet of the Mint Store due to the fabulous markups on the American Liberty. Remember, this isn't a company or corporation that has to show a profit, it's the Government.
They take all the returned sets, and put them through a shredder. Then sell the shredded remains for $5 an ounce.
I'd buy a bag.
I think everyone should keep in mind that the Mint Store isn't tasked to make a profit. They just have to insure it doesn't cost the taxpayers any money. They could have trashed all 225K, and it would still have fulfilled that goal.
In the grand scheme of the Department of the Treasury, the loss on those 25K sets would be less than a rounding error. It may not even be noticed on the P&L sheet of the Mint Store due to the fabulous markups on the American Liberty. Remember, this isn't a company or corporation that has to show a profit, it's the Government.
Of course, that's all true...and all more than a little unfortunate.
@Onastone said:
The Government will just destroy them. Don't count on discounted pricing.
No one is counting on anything. Every moron knows the Mint has NEVER discounted impaired goods. My point is more that it is something that a normal business would do. And in this case, it is EXPENSIVE for the government to destroy them.
So, next time you think the Mint doesn't respect collectors, remember this. The Mint loves collectors TOO MUCH.
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now we wait a few days for the new packaging the mint ordered to assemble more sets
"The dishes are done man!"
not really
I was waiting to know if there would be 25,000 on backorder.
Answer: no. and the computer does it for other items.
The Mint is playing the market! I sent back over 40 sets the first week due to damaged outer packaging. These were the sets bought at the Mint booth in Denver that I didn't open until leaving the show. They were unsaleable as is but with new packaging they would be perfectly fine as the coins and plastic holders were fine. I'd bet the Mint ordered more packaging to resell the sets that were fine. I even included a note with the returns explaining that if the paper packaging were replaced the sets would be fine! Only time will tell but I bet these are back on sale again. No way do I believe 20k+ sets were damaged to the point of being unsaleable.
Very unlikely that the Mint will go through the expense of ordering more packaging. The contract with the Vendor has been fulfilled, regardless of how many had flaws. That's an issue between the Mint & the Chinese Vendor. Since the coins are not bullion coins, it would be much less expensive to destroy them instead of having them repackaged.
I think if the mint were planning to sell more sets from here that we'd be in backorder.
I'm looking at the 23-25k as a mistake.
quarterly audit will confirm.
+1
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
Don't get too excited Coin Fans. I get the feeling those other 20,000 are about to be placed back on the shelf. The inspection/repackaging process is about complete.
Anyone got any need for about a Ton of broken plastic? Remember the Waffled Coins Craze! CERTIFIED US Mint scrap Plastic could be worth more than the intact Sets one day.
The greater loss would be tossing out the aets ,, Mint would
Jessewvu .... just by definition .... some amateurs
Hey ....I even bought a set today .. available Monday 5,000 ?
**************Danger ,,,,currently sets unavailable ................not sold out************
Even if they do not have any more in stock and have no plans for anymore it won't say "sold out" for weeks. CC issues/returns/etc
Not "danger"...more like S.O.P.
The mint is at Santa Clara CoinExpo this weekend
Any one have Mint connections? I wonder if were could talk them into selling the impaired sets as impaired sets? Cheaper than trying to rehab them and I don't care about any of the packaging.
It just kills some people if this set has any popularity.
Anyway, I think the Mint is better served selling all the returned sets as is at $10 each rather than trying to rehab them to sell at $30 each.
Let's assume the Mint breaks even at $30. [There annual report says they lose money, but let's assume they break even.]
Quick, rough calculation:
Cost of coins - about $3.50
Cost of special finish - $1-2 million over 200,000 coins is $5-$10 per set. [Admittedly, I'm spitballing here, but based on pricing of standard proof sets vs. mint sets vs. EU sets: Mint sets sell at $20.95, standard proof at $6 more, EU at $3 above proof If you assume that half of the proof set costs is die finish and half packaging, then you've got $3 over 400,000 units or $1.2 million. at $3 over 200,000 that's $600,000 more for EU, so at most $2 million for the dies.]
Cost of packaging/administration/fulfillment etc: $16.50 to 21.50 per set
Cost of rehab? Probably pretty close to the $20 per set. Some of the administration costs are already paid, BUT:
1) Getting the coins out of cracked plastic and into new plastic is probably more labor intensive than original placement.
2) Unit costs for cardboard boxes, COAs and plastic inserts is going to be higher on a smaller second order.
So, it is actually better for the Mint to sell "impaired sets" at $10 each than try to rehab them and sell them at $30.
Who wants to make the call?
It's about 25K sets.
Pretend you have 500 rolls of cents in front of you. Every cent in those 500 rolls represents an EU set. Each set would have all 10 coins inspected, along with the boxes, COA's and lenses for defects/problems and replaced if necessary.
The other really big problem, is none of the lenses are sealed. There was an enterprising twit on an unnamed blog, who happily replaced an EU dollar coin (I think in a C&C set) with a circulating example, returned it to the mint and got a full refund. The people who have to go through those sets would have to recognize what is and is not a legit coin for this set.
Do you really think PFSWeb has the resources for that? Do you think PFSWeb even has the expertise?
It would be much cheaper and easier for San Francisco to restrike the 25K sets after their next audit. After all, there is no component in the EU set that isn't in a regular proof set (or silver proof set) except for the box and COA, which are both easily made and printed. It would only take a few days for the entire process.
I think if the 25K sets do appear, they'll be minty fresh sets. Whether or not they do is the question...
Well that was freaking lame...especially if they resold it
What am I missing here?
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
Simple speculation.
Frankly, I don't think there is an inexpensive option for the mint. As I mentioned above, it's going to cost $10-$20 to rehab sets IF IF IF they need anything more than an inspection. It probably costs $15-20 to mint them again from existing dies. And it probably costs at least $10 to trash them IF IF IF they insist on waffling them.
I'd be willing to bet there will be some changes as a result of the return fiasco. I don't know how or what they're going to do. But between panicky flippers and fussy ass people who sent back anything that wasn't a "70", not to mention people imagining defects due to the optics of the plastics, the Mint lost a ton of money on this issue and they aren't going to want a repeat.
They may change the return policy. They may change the distribution policy. They may change the "recycling" policy. But I imagine they are considering the options now.
I would be very curious to know what the normal return rate is relative to this issue.
I also wonder how many people will be sorry IF IF IF (I said "IF") this ends up being a $50-$75 set next year.
I will still have a giveaway as soon as these stupid things sell out..
The bar for returns (ie....reason/cost) should be, imho, higher for those that are returning 10+ units.
Those that are buying/returning a few, or less, aren't likely to be playing a game as much as those that are ordering many more.
Kind of what happened with the purchase of precious metal coins some years back. Used to fall under the 30 day return window. Was completely abused by some people (PM volatility made it so that you could purchase, hope for a big increase, sell the item, and move on....or, worse case scenario, return it by day 30 and lose nothing but maybe shipping).
Screwed everyone else over as the mint made the changes we currently see (pricing and return changes)
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Can you imagine the PR nightmare the Mint will face if they do such a thing? Everyone who paid $30 for a set would be furious, and rightly so. And anyone who snagged one or more sets at $10 each would be in instant profit territory - the Lincoln cents alone are currently selling for at least $10 each raw, and so are the Kennedy halves.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
I think a couple hundred more will pop up and then be done on 9/19. Mint will come back with 202k sold.
d2
Don't quote me on that.
I wouldn't sell them to the public. I would sell them to re-sellers. Let them sell the single coins to collectors.
But, they are either "impaired" sets or they aren't. Pretty common in retail to sell impaired merchandise at often steep discounts. If they aren't truly impaired, they should be able to simply toss them back up for sale.
But, that is why I think they are likely to just scrap them...even though that is more expensive than my idea.
Mr. Mint, if you're listening, I'll take all the impaired sets, as is at $10 each.
Possible. Although don't they have to come up with a few thousand more, not a few hundred? Based on sales through Sunday and the number available this week, it doesn't seem like more than 197,000 have been sold so far.
I readily agree my math sucks. But then, so did this whole selling thing the Mint tried.
D2
Don't quote me on that.
my guess is the mint isn't going to package any more than are packaged. I imagine a good many of the returns were replacements. So, 2 out of inventory and only accounting for sales of 1. Since they were replacement, I'm imagining the mint WILL NOT resell them for reasons such as imperfections, packaging, or coins that were missing or swapped in the return process. Integrity of the mint is probably pretty important and I seriously doubt they will spend the time or effort to figure out which coins in the returned sets are good enough to go back out. They may have some deal with a large company to sell the damaged/returned sets at a discount but they might have to buy them all (maybe a company that gold plates them or something) but i just don't see the mint sticking their heads out to get additional sets released. However, I also imagine that the mint has produced more than 225k to account for a certain number of returned/damaged sets. Those may be the ones that are put up for sale again when they get a grasp of how many they expect to have after the most recent orders are fulfilled. That being said, i think they have had enough time to get a grasp of that number by now so I imagine any additional sets made available will be in the hundreds, not thousands.
I'll put a second set up as a giveaway if they sell more than 1,000 after the next set of numbers are released this coming week.
link to my giveaway:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987272/my-4-000-post-giveaway-2017-s-eu-mint-set/p1?new=1
I think that would create an even worse PR situation, selling "impaired" sets to privileged buyers at a steep discount so that these privileged buyers could immediately resell them to collectors at a guaranteed profit.
So would anyone else. If the Mint wanted to "dump" the impaired sets, they could easily find buyers at considerably more than $10 per set. But the short-term profit would be dwarfed by the loss of customer goodwill.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
I mostly agree. The real issue we're having is the numbers. If they actually made 250,000 (hypothetically) to account for returns, the fact that it is currently unavailable suggests more than 50,000 returns in a pile somewhere. If they only sold 225,000 and have 25,000 virgin sets in reserve, then why is it "unavailable"?
Of course.
I would presume they would dump them on the major distributors. They already get a discount and no one would really notice the sets sneaking in through that particular door.
As a taxpayer, I'd be okay with that. I'm mostly mad at the people returning thousands of the things in a panic at my expense! The problem with any other remedy is that it costs me the taxpayer more. Even just trashing them is expensive, especially when the coins are perfectly fine. [Assuming, of course, that there is something wrong with the packaging.]
By the way, if you don't like $10 per set, what is the right price? It's also not so clear they could find buyers at "considerably more" than $10 per set. Breaking up the sets and selling the coins singly is a lot of work. I wouldn't pay $25 for that headache, would you? $20? Not me. $15, maybe.
The Mint could maybe sell impaired sets at $25 each without stirring up a hornet's nest. They were selling intact sets for $30 each at the rate of about 700 a day until the recent sellout. Many collectors have deliberately "impaired" their own sets, breaking them up to obtain individual coins for their series sets, or to submit to TPGs for grading. This tells me that nearly all the value is in the coins themselves, not the packaging.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Mike Mezak has me laying mines
Except that how many sets were returned because of minor damage to boxes? Some people, like me, don't care about the packaging. Others do.
I don't really expect them to do it, even though it's common in retail. On the other hand, no one in retail would undertake every year to sell 400,000 units of something that LOSES money! They would have either raised the prices or phased out proof sets. So, I guess we can't (ever) expect government to behave like a business.
Another option.
Instead of selling the damaged sets.
They could sell the "good" individual coins.
Say the dime or nickel in the set is damaged, then sell the other 8 coins, individually at $3 each, which would correspond to the $30/10 coins.
This way the Mint could recoup some of their losses.
Just my input.
Chris
I have 30 sets. It may be nice to grab a few more.
Again, I think these will be $50 set by next year.
Low mintage coins with a hybrid finish.
I drank to much coffee this morning.
Chris
Here's another option.
They take all the returned sets, and put them through a shredder. Then sell the shredded remains for $5 an ounce.
I'd buy a bag.
I think everyone should keep in mind that the Mint Store isn't tasked to make a profit. They just have to insure it doesn't cost the taxpayers any money. They could have trashed all 225K, and it would still have fulfilled that goal.
In the grand scheme of the Department of the Treasury, the loss on those 25K sets would be less than a rounding error. It may not even be noticed on the P&L sheet of the Mint Store due to the fabulous markups on the American Liberty. Remember, this isn't a company or corporation that has to show a profit, it's the Government.
Of course, that's all true...and all more than a little unfortunate.
The Government will just destroy them. Don't count on discounted pricing.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2017-S-225TH-ANNIVERSARY-ENHANCED-UNCIRCULATED-10-COIN-SET-/122698220019?hash=item1c916241f3:g:T30AAOSw9LxZq3yV
no reserve auctions are doing good, they are asking 3.95 shipping too
you can pick up a set for about 36 dollars. bonus e bucks end tonight
No one is counting on anything. Every moron knows the Mint has NEVER discounted impaired goods. My point is more that it is something that a normal business would do. And in this case, it is EXPENSIVE for the government to destroy them.
So, next time you think the Mint doesn't respect collectors, remember this. The Mint loves collectors TOO MUCH.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2017-S-Enhanced-Mint-Set-10-Coins-Set-First-Strike-PCGS-SP-70-ANA-Denver-Exclusi-/222635419242?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&nma=true&si=f4HZnFUFTojVenrWakzs3O7PKEs%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
someone stole this set