That's true and I wonder why they bother. They must have waaaay overproduced those sets and don't want to just scrap them. I wonder if they'll be cutting the runs on subsequent proof/mint sets as a result.
Does anyone know any reliable estimates on the collector base? I'm particularly interested in the number of series collectors (Lincolns, Halves, etc.).
It's hard to imagine that the number of collectors has dropped as precipitously as the proof set sales. Now, in part, there is probably a cost issue. The larger sets of coins have come with a higher initial price tag. But is the problem a shrinking collector base or a change in collector interest?
@jmlanzaf said:
Does anyone know any reliable estimates on the collector base? I'm particularly interested in the number of series collectors (Lincolns, Halves, etc.).
It's hard to imagine that the number of collectors has dropped as precipitously as the proof set sales. Now, in part, there is probably a cost issue. The larger sets of coins have come with a higher initial price tag. But is the problem a shrinking collector base or a change in collector interest?
I would assume the proof set drop was caused by the end of the State Quarters. Many still picked up the 2009 sets, but then they started another 10+ year run, and people dropped out. (and the best parks were in the first 2 years)
Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
@dbldie55 said:
I would assume the proof set drop was caused by the end of the State Quarters. Many still picked up the 2009 sets, but then they started another 10+ year run, and people dropped out. (and the best parks were in the first 2 years)
Except that the number of proof sets sold in the mid 80s BEFORE THE QUARTERS, was even higher (over 3 million), and even the mid-90s, right before the quarters, had mintages of over 2 million.
Collector exhaustion may certainly be part of it. Finances may be part of it. But if you collect Lincoln cents and include proofs, you still need a proof set - or at least a piece of one. When you add those people to "set collectors", how many people are there? Let's say the number is around 500,000 based on recent sales. Who was buying the other 1.5 MILLION sets previously? Quarters and presidential dollars alone don't explain it, especially since they sold those in separate packaging.
I am probably a fool but I keep picking up these SP 70 sets (ANa, FDI, etc.) for $17-18/slab....I can't see much downside in them...but...I do wear glasses
@dbldie55 said:
I would assume the proof set drop was caused by the end of the State Quarters. Many still picked up the 2009 sets, but then they started another 10+ year run, and people dropped out. (and the best parks were in the first 2 years)
Except that the number of proof sets sold in the mid 80s BEFORE THE QUARTERS, was even higher (over 3 million), and even the mid-90s, right before the quarters, had mintages of over 2 million.
Collector exhaustion may certainly be part of it. Finances may be part of it. But if you collect Lincoln cents and include proofs, you still need a proof set - or at least a piece of one. When you add those people to "set collectors", how many people are there? Let's say the number is around 500,000 based on recent sales. Who was buying the other 1.5 MILLION sets previously? Quarters and presidential dollars alone don't explain it, especially since they sold those in separate packaging.
Back in the '80's, a mint set was what? $7 or $8? A proof set a couple bucks more.
Today, they're 3 times that price point, and quickly lose value to the price of what they cost back in the '80's, for base metal coins with a flat relief, sometimes homely looking quarters, and prezibucks nobody wanted. (Wait, I knew one guy who was a descendant of Polk, and got excited over his dollar coin...)
I don't think it's collector exhaustion, it's collector rejection. I still buy a mint/proof/silver proof set every year for my collection because my OCD won't let me stop, but this years EU set is the first time I've gotten excited(*) about a circulating coin set in years.
(*) Please note that "excited" is a relative term. I'm not even sure "excited" is the right word.
@bestday said:
How long can the Mint keep on selling the 225th set.. ?
Technically, until they run out of inventory. They only have to be minted in 2017. There's nothing that says they can't keep selling them until, say, the Bears win another super bowl.
Realistically, it depends on the product. Usually it takes about a year before they pull the product. For instance, I think the gold SLQ (and maybe even the WLH) will be gone by the end of this quarter. However, given that they sell a decent amount of mint and proof sets through the year, I could see this set doing the same.
@dbldie55 said:
I would assume the proof set drop was caused by the end of the State Quarters. Many still picked up the 2009 sets, but then they started another 10+ year run, and people dropped out. (and the best parks were in the first 2 years)
Except that the number of proof sets sold in the mid 80s BEFORE THE QUARTERS, was even higher (over 3 million), and even the mid-90s, right before the quarters, had mintages of over 2 million.
Collector exhaustion may certainly be part of it. Finances may be part of it. But if you collect Lincoln cents and include proofs, you still need a proof set - or at least a piece of one. When you add those people to "set collectors", how many people are there? Let's say the number is around 500,000 based on recent sales. Who was buying the other 1.5 MILLION sets previously? Quarters and presidential dollars alone don't explain it, especially since they sold those in separate packaging.
Back in the '80's, a mint set was what? $7 or $8? A proof set a couple bucks more.
Today, they're 3 times that price point, and quickly lose value to the price of what they cost back in the '80's, for base metal coins with a flat relief, sometimes homely looking quarters, and prezibucks nobody wanted. (Wait, I knew one guy who was a descendant of Polk, and got excited over his dollar coin...)
I don't think it's collector exhaustion, it's collector rejection. I still buy a mint/proof/silver proof set every year for my collection because my OCD won't let me stop, but this years EU set is the first time I've gotten excited(*) about a circulating coin set in years.
(*) Please note that "excited" is a relative term. I'm not even sure "excited" is the right word.
Maybe I'm not being clear or maybe I'm not being read. LOL. But my point is really the series collectors. The total of proof sets sold should be the combination of the number of people who collect the sets as sets PLUS the largest series collectors (probably cents) who want an album coin. One of those groups has gotten significantly smaller, probably the set collectors, but that still leaves the series collectors as the lower limit on such sets.
@dbldie55 said:
I would assume the proof set drop was caused by the end of the State Quarters. Many still picked up the 2009 sets, but then they started another 10+ year run, and people dropped out. (and the best parks were in the first 2 years)
Except that the number of proof sets sold in the mid 80s BEFORE THE QUARTERS, was even higher (over 3 million), and even the mid-90s, right before the quarters, had mintages of over 2 million.
Collector exhaustion may certainly be part of it. Finances may be part of it. But if you collect Lincoln cents and include proofs, you still need a proof set - or at least a piece of one. When you add those people to "set collectors", how many people are there? Let's say the number is around 500,000 based on recent sales. Who was buying the other 1.5 MILLION sets previously? Quarters and presidential dollars alone don't explain it, especially since they sold those in separate packaging.
Back in the '80's, a mint set was what? $7 or $8? A proof set a couple bucks more.
Today, they're 3 times that price point, and quickly lose value to the price of what they cost back in the '80's, for base metal coins with a flat relief, sometimes homely looking quarters, and prezibucks nobody wanted. (Wait, I knew one guy who was a descendant of Polk, and got excited over his dollar coin...)
I don't think it's collector exhaustion, it's collector rejection. I still buy a mint/proof/silver proof set every year for my collection because my OCD won't let me stop, but this years EU set is the first time I've gotten excited(*) about a circulating coin set in years.
(*) Please note that "excited" is a relative term. I'm not even sure "excited" is the right word.
Maybe I'm not being clear or maybe I'm not being read. LOL. But my point is really the series collectors. The total of proof sets sold should be the combination of the number of people who collect the sets as sets PLUS the largest series collectors (probably cents) who want an album coin. One of those groups has gotten significantly smaller, probably the set collectors, but that still leaves the series collectors as the lower limit on such sets.
No, I was just commenting on why the precipitous drop of sales in mint and proof sets. You asked who was buying the other million sets. That's the question I answered. It's the people who no longer think it's worthwhile to get them due to storage and excessive cost.
So long as we're there, you're not defining is what you think a "collector" is. A series collector needs proof coins? Only if you're playing registry games. And those collectors are (relatively) small numbers.
Most "collectors" get their coins from their pocket change and they go into albums or 2x2's.
@aus3000tin said:
How does the 225k mintage compare with Mint Sets & Proof Sets for the past few years?
It seems this is a win-win coin set.
It's an in-betweener set that I think most Mint & Proof Set collectors would want.
I'm in for 10 sets, in case your wondering.
I'm thinking of buying a few more.
With a breakdown of $3 a coin, there's plenty of room for growth.
And speculation the mintage will be less than 225k.
How can you go wrong for say a 5 year holding?
Chris
Sales have been decreasing over the years, but 225K is still below yearly sales. In the long run, I'd probably compare this set to a proof set more than an uncirculated set...
Uncirculated and Proof Sets, 2000-2017 (As of Sep 1, 2017)
Year
Uncirculated
Proof
2000
1,490,160
3,082,572
2001
1,116,915
2,294,909
2002
1,139,388
2,319,766
2003
1,001,532
2,172,684
2004
842,507
1,798,488
2005
1,160,000
2,275,000
2006
847,361
2,000,428
2007
895,628
1,702,116
2008
745,464
1,382,017
2009
784,614
1,482,502
2010
583,897
1,103,815
2011
533,529
1,098,835
2012
392,224
794,002
2013
376,844
802,460
2014
345,813
714,661
2015
314,032
662,900
2016
290,411*
595,184
2017
194,922*
346,473*
* denotes set is still on sale.
I did NOT realize the number for Mint & Proof Sets had fallen that much.
It still seems like this EU set is a keeper for the years to come.
I presume it is going to be a 1 year type set. Is this true?
With all those returns, it may make sense for the MInt to have Household Limits of maybe 25.
This would make it harder for all those flippers. And also, when they want to make returns.
I'm assuming if there is a Household Limit and the flippers try to work the loophole & order using their friends & family, then then they try to make a return they would also have to send back the smaller 25 lot package instead of a 100 lot package.
Does this make sense?
I'm just wondering.
Originally, I ordered 10 sets. Then, I just ordered another 10 sets.
I do NOT collect Mint or Proof Sets, but I'm thinking most collectors who do do NOT purchase more than 1 set.
This leads me to believe a small bit of us have more than our fair share of sets. I'm now holding 20 sets.
I'm NOT a flipper, but I can see the logic, that when the "general public" gets around to wanting these, there
will be a demand for these.
I'm NOT saying these sets will be worth $100's any time soon, but I see these possibly as a $50-$75 set.
There was some hype about the S-mint low mintage, but do you think the "general public" will worry about
collecting ANOTHER coin for the year 2017 ?
Any help would be great.
P.S. Sorry about bombarding the board with posts, but I just had some coffee
Kind of a stretch to compare this sets with a decently low mintage, unique coins by mint mark and finish, with the recent Mint sets with coins that are uncirculated versions of mega minted regular issues....and in addition to being in these Mint sets, you can get sets with the quarters, and sets with the dollars. Add these numbers in the totals when you compare them to the SP set
In the silver proof sets the only coins that are unique to that set are the dime and half...but they are also in the SE PF set so I take that back
Five non-silver proofs are also in the Birth set...and Birthday sets with five S mint coins
Too many products with the same coins....thus the dilution of interest
@aus3000tin said:
I did NOT realize the number for Mint & Proof Sets had fallen that much.
Oh yeah. I bought mint and proof sets for the FSQ years. Now, I need to downsize and sell off a bunch.
If you hear someone sobbing, it's probably only me...
It still seems like this EU set is a keeper for the years to come.
I presume it is going to be a 1 year type set. Is this true?
You're asking people to predict what a governmental agency will do? Good luck on that one.
That the mint gave the set a "special" designation (i.e. a product number with an "X"), and that it's specifically titled as a 225th anniversary product, my guess it's a one-off. At least I hope it's a one and done.
But also keep in mind that this set is as easy to produce by the SF Mint as is a proof or silver proof set. It uses standard blanks, lenses and packaging, and since all dies are computer created now, it would be an easy product for them to add to the catalog.
Did that help? Probably not. But you got what you paid for!
@aus3000tin said:
With all those returns, it may make sense for the MInt to have Household Limits of maybe 25.
This would make it harder for all those flippers. And also, when they want to make returns.
I'm assuming if there is a Household Limit and the flippers try to work the loophole & order using their friends & family, then then they try to make a return they would also have to send back the smaller 25 lot package instead of a 100 lot package.
Does this make sense?
Chris
Nope. They treated this set like any other circulating coin set, even opening up bulk sales to dealers. The very definition of bulk sales, is... Bulk sales, or sales over $5,000.
My solution would be to have a restocking fee of 25% for any returns or cancels over XX pieces, where XX is something like 25 or 50. Fee waived if it's a cancellation within the first 24 hours to account for errors in ordering. This probably would not have stopped the first 20K cancel, since it did occur within a day, but it may have stopped the influx of returns/cancels in the subsequent weeks. It would also penalize those who cherry pick the sets and return sub-par coins to the mint. It would not affect the collector who returns a set or two because of defects.
Edit: Significant changes to the last paragraph...
@aus3000tin said:
There was some hype about the S-mint low mintage, but do you think the "general public" will worry about
collecting ANOTHER coin for the year 2017 ?
If by “general public” you mean average collectors, my answer would be “yes”. Why? At $30, the set is affordable to most collectors. It’s attractive in hand. It has several low-mintage key coins that are obtainable only in this set.
Mintmarks do matter, even for coins that were issued only in collector sets. Significant demand exists for date/mm combinations that were never released to circulation. 1996-W Roosevelt dime (mintage 1.4 million) $12. Or 1970-D Kennedy half (mintage 2.1 million) $12. The coins in the 2017-S set are inexpensive by comparison, even though their mintage is multiple times smaller.
Not every collector will want a set, but there should be enough interest from series collectors and mint/proof set collectors to maintain decent demand going forward.
My dealer friend has seen some offers to buy on the 70 sets...from walk ins ... no takers .. He sees the Kennedy half in the set as the big winner along with the Lincoln cent .. but said again too many Mint products to move set higher with such a high mintage
Interesting .. some of his dealer friends at the show, bought many sets with hope of a quick ,big score.
Shouldn't you also determine whether any of the people that you give this stuff to consider the gift to be worth $30, or even $10? I think that too often, hobbyists think that giving coins as gifts are a good idea when in fact, I would comfortably think that in the vast majority of instances, you're basically giving an unusable and unwanted gift to the recipient. If the recipients are coin people, then it sound like a good idea.
So, are you saying coins, as gifts, are the new Christmas fruit cakes?
I think I'd prefer a nice tasty Claxton Fruit Cake over anything from the US Mint. Ummm.... of course if I got anything in Gold or Platinummmm..... especially a 1 oz AGE. Or even the 1 oz APE.
But this unwanted overproduced EU Set? Give me the Claxton..... PLEASE !
@dbldie55 said:
I would assume the proof set drop was caused by the end of the State Quarters. Many still picked up the 2009 sets, but then they started another 10+ year run, and people dropped out. (and the best parks were in the first 2 years)
Except that the number of proof sets sold in the mid 80s BEFORE THE QUARTERS, was even higher (over 3 million), and even the mid-90s, right before the quarters, had mintages of over 2 million.
Collector exhaustion may certainly be part of it. Finances may be part of it. But if you collect Lincoln cents and include proofs, you still need a proof set - or at least a piece of one. When you add those people to "set collectors", how many people are there? Let's say the number is around 500,000 based on recent sales. Who was buying the other 1.5 MILLION sets previously? Quarters and presidential dollars alone don't explain it, especially since they sold those in separate packaging.
Back in the '80's, a mint set was what? $7 or $8? A proof set a couple bucks more.
Today, they're 3 times that price point, and quickly lose value to the price of what they cost back in the '80's, for base metal coins with a flat relief, sometimes homely looking quarters, and prezibucks nobody wanted. (Wait, I knew one guy who was a descendant of Polk, and got excited over his dollar coin...)
I don't think it's collector exhaustion, it's collector rejection. I still buy a mint/proof/silver proof set every year for my collection because my OCD won't let me stop, but this years EU set is the first time I've gotten excited(*) about a circulating coin set in years.
(*) Please note that "excited" is a relative term. I'm not even sure "excited" is the right word.
Maybe I'm not being clear or maybe I'm not being read. LOL. But my point is really the series collectors. The total of proof sets sold should be the combination of the number of people who collect the sets as sets PLUS the largest series collectors (probably cents) who want an album coin. One of those groups has gotten significantly smaller, probably the set collectors, but that still leaves the series collectors as the lower limit on such sets.
No, I was just commenting on why the precipitous drop of sales in mint and proof sets. You asked who was buying the other million sets. That's the question I answered. It's the people who no longer think it's worthwhile to get them due to storage and excessive cost.
So long as we're there, you're not defining is what you think a "collector" is. A series collector needs proof coins? Only if you're playing registry games. And those collectors are (relatively) small numbers.
Most "collectors" get their coins from their pocket change and they go into albums or 2x2's.
SOME series collectors include the proof coins. Some don't. I'm talking about the ones that due. In my experience, it seems to be about 1/3 of the series collectors (based on the albums I buy).
@dbldie55 said:
I would assume the proof set drop was caused by the end of the State Quarters. Many still picked up the 2009 sets, but then they started another 10+ year run, and people dropped out. (and the best parks were in the first 2 years)
Except that the number of proof sets sold in the mid 80s BEFORE THE QUARTERS, was even higher (over 3 million), and even the mid-90s, right before the quarters, had mintages of over 2 million.
Collector exhaustion may certainly be part of it. Finances may be part of it. But if you collect Lincoln cents and include proofs, you still need a proof set - or at least a piece of one. When you add those people to "set collectors", how many people are there? Let's say the number is around 500,000 based on recent sales. Who was buying the other 1.5 MILLION sets previously? Quarters and presidential dollars alone don't explain it, especially since they sold those in separate packaging.
Back in the '80's, a mint set was what? $7 or $8? A proof set a couple bucks more.
Today, they're 3 times that price point, and quickly lose value to the price of what they cost back in the '80's, for base metal coins with a flat relief, sometimes homely looking quarters, and prezibucks nobody wanted. (Wait, I knew one guy who was a descendant of Polk, and got excited over his dollar coin...)
I don't think it's collector exhaustion, it's collector rejection. I still buy a mint/proof/silver proof set every year for my collection because my OCD won't let me stop, but this years EU set is the first time I've gotten excited(*) about a circulating coin set in years.
(*) Please note that "excited" is a relative term. I'm not even sure "excited" is the right word.
LOL. I think most collectors have OCD. That's why they collect. It's also why they fill holes in albums. IMHO, there's no reason for anyone to collect date/mintmark series since, except for the date/mintmark, they all look alike. This is particularly true of series like Merc Dimes. Most collectors end up with nice AU/Unc coins at the end of the series. Nice XF/AU coins at the beginning. and a mid-grade set of 21's and an AG/Good 16-D. In the end, who wants to look at an AG/Good 16-D when you've got a nice MS-65 1945 that looks almost identical and GLOWS? But because collectors are all a bit OCD, they just have to collect them all. (Just my opinion, of course.)
@aus3000tin said:
With all those returns, it may make sense for the MInt to have Household Limits of maybe 25.
This would make it harder for all those flippers. And also, when they want to make returns.
I'm assuming if there is a Household Limit and the flippers try to work the loophole & order using their friends & family, then then they try to make a return they would also have to send back the smaller 25 lot package instead of a 100 lot package.
Does this make sense?
Chris
From the Mint's perspective, it makes more sense to make returns harder. It is easier for the Mint to send out 1000 sets than send out 500 pairs of sets. While there is some long-term advantage to the Mint to make it easier for collectors to acquire sets and, therefore, keep acquiring sets. But that is only part of the big picture of the coin market.
If there is a Household limit of a few, then it is harder for QVC and the big retailers to get large numbers. Those entities do a LOT of marketing that helps the mint. [Yes, some of them also do some damage by over-hyping.] Then you've got the slabbed collectors. It is MUCH MUCH MUCH cheaper for bulk submissions, which requires 100 or more. You need the big players to be slabbing all those coins at $5 to $8 per coin to make 69s and 70s affordable.
Now, you could exempt the largest of the distributors from the limit, but then you are just selectively squeezing out the middle rung guys.
On the other hand, make returns harder and then the middle rung guys will have to be a bit more careful in their ordering but still be in business. But then the little collector has a harder time returning sets...
Or, stated more succinctly: there's no perfect solution.
Well this is interesting I sent back 3 sets of my 2nd batch of rejected coins (rejected by me). I got the package, 3 replacement coins today. I signed for them at the USPS, and when I got home noticed there was no tape holding the flapped portion of the box but was tucked in so it could not open. Well after I opened the box, there was only two sets of coins in the box. So I called the US Mint person named (Leon) and requested that he send me a return authorization for shipping to my email address as I want ALL my money back. Including the one (1) Stolen set of coins. Leon informed me maybe the shipper ( probably a drugged smoking minimum wage earner ) forgot to put 3 sets of coins and only put in 2. I said right that might stop the Federal Investigation that I am starting for Stealing the 1 set out of the box. Maybe if the ( probably a drugged smoking minimum wage earner ) shipper had tapped the box in the first place the set might still be there. Leon did NOT think it was strange that the ( probably a drugged smoking minimum wage earner ) shipper had NOT TAPPED THE BOX! Turns out Leon NEVER IN HIS ADULT LIFE SENT A BOX PERIOD! Ohhh Boy! I said just send me the return authorization form via my email and get ready for the Federal Investigation that I will be starting Tuesday after the Labor Day holiday!
@Gluggo said:
Well this is interesting I sent back 3 sets of my 2nd batch of rejected coins (rejected by me). I got the package, 3 replacement coins today. I signed for them at the USPS, and when I got home noticed there was no tape holding the flapped portion of the box but was tucked in so it could not open. Well after I opened the box, there was only two sets of coins in the box. So I called the US Mint person named (Leon) and requested that he send me a return authorization for shipping to my email address as I want ALL my money back. Including the one (1) Stolen set of coins. Leon informed me maybe the shipper ( probably a drugged smoking minimum wage earner ) forgot to put 3 sets of coins and only put in 2. I said right that might stop the Federal Investigation that I am starting for Stealing the 1 set out of the box. Maybe if the ( probably a drugged smoking minimum wage earner ) shipper had tapped the box in the first place the set might still be there. Leon did NOT think it was strange that the ( probably a drugged smoking minimum wage earner ) shipper had NOT TAPPED THE BOX! Turns out Leon NEVER IN HIS ADULT LIFE SENT A BOX PERIOD! Ohhh Boy! I said just send me the return authorization form via my email and get ready for the Federal Investigation that I will be starting Tuesday after the Labor Day holiday!
you really have an issue with smoking drugged people.....dude...lighten up....
@Gluggo said:
Well this is interesting I sent back 3 sets of my 2nd batch of rejected coins (rejected by me). I got the package, 3 replacement coins today. I signed for them at the USPS, and when I got home noticed there was no tape holding the flapped portion of the box but was tucked in so it could not open. Well after I opened the box, there was only two sets of coins in the box. So I called the US Mint person named (Leon) and requested that he send me a return authorization for shipping to my email address as I want ALL my money back. Including the one (1) Stolen set of coins. Leon informed me maybe the shipper ( probably a drugged smoking minimum wage earner ) forgot to put 3 sets of coins and only put in 2. I said right that might stop the Federal Investigation that I am starting for Stealing the 1 set out of the box. Maybe if the ( probably a drugged smoking minimum wage earner ) shipper had tapped the box in the first place the set might still be there. Leon did NOT think it was strange that the ( probably a drugged smoking minimum wage earner ) shipper had NOT TAPPED THE BOX! Turns out Leon NEVER IN HIS ADULT LIFE SENT A BOX PERIOD! Ohhh Boy! I said just send me the return authorization form via my email and get ready for the Federal Investigation that I will be starting Tuesday after the Labor Day holiday!
I would respond but I am busy watching the Coin Collector on HSN right now a special 2 hour presentation!
>
I was scanning channels and caught the EU set, EU70, being offreded by them. $349 ea. 1092 matched numbered sets "Exclusive" to them first day of issue. By ANACS. He did say he saw PCGS sets for around $650. Said he didn't like them because they didn't match number their sets which is "critical to the collecting process". What a huckster.
@Gluggo said:
Well this is interesting I sent back 3 sets of my 2nd batch of rejected coins (rejected by me). I got the package, 3 replacement coins today. I signed for them at the USPS, and when I got home noticed there was no tape holding the flapped portion of the box but was tucked in so it could not open. Well after I opened the box, there was only two sets of coins in the box. So I called the US Mint person named (Leon) and requested that he send me a return authorization for shipping to my email address as I want ALL my money back. Including the one (1) Stolen set of coins. Leon informed me maybe the shipper ( probably a drugged smoking minimum wage earner ) forgot to put 3 sets of coins and only put in 2. I said right that might stop the Federal Investigation that I am starting for Stealing the 1 set out of the box. Maybe if the ( probably a drugged smoking minimum wage earner ) shipper had tapped the box in the first place the set might still be there. Leon did NOT think it was strange that the ( probably a drugged smoking minimum wage earner ) shipper had NOT TAPPED THE BOX! Turns out Leon NEVER IN HIS ADULT LIFE SENT A BOX PERIOD! Ohhh Boy! I said just send me the return authorization form via my email and get ready for the Federal Investigation that I will be starting Tuesday after the Labor Day holiday!
you really have an issue with smoking drugged people.....dude...lighten up....
Thank you for the heads up warning for the HSN coin sale. Mike did not get me this time!!!!! But Ebay did'''''
[ : ) Hopefully it was a good deal only time will tell but it is autographed!
Comments
Until they are all gone...My guess....a couple of weeks
I'll say Sept 19th....done.
Don't quote me on that.
I'll say October 19th
unless that 25k is really 25k and not a mistaken double count, then it will be October 19th, 2018
That's true and I wonder why they bother. They must have waaaay overproduced those sets and don't want to just scrap them. I wonder if they'll be cutting the runs on subsequent proof/mint sets as a result.
Does anyone know any reliable estimates on the collector base? I'm particularly interested in the number of series collectors (Lincolns, Halves, etc.).
It's hard to imagine that the number of collectors has dropped as precipitously as the proof set sales. Now, in part, there is probably a cost issue. The larger sets of coins have come with a higher initial price tag. But is the problem a shrinking collector base or a change in collector interest?
i guarantee it's between 1 and 2,000,000
better buy some sets soon before they sell out bestday
LOL. You and bestday are like flip sides of the same enhanced coin.
I would assume the proof set drop was caused by the end of the State Quarters. Many still picked up the 2009 sets, but then they started another 10+ year run, and people dropped out. (and the best parks were in the first 2 years)
Except that the number of proof sets sold in the mid 80s BEFORE THE QUARTERS, was even higher (over 3 million), and even the mid-90s, right before the quarters, had mintages of over 2 million.
Collector exhaustion may certainly be part of it. Finances may be part of it. But if you collect Lincoln cents and include proofs, you still need a proof set - or at least a piece of one. When you add those people to "set collectors", how many people are there? Let's say the number is around 500,000 based on recent sales. Who was buying the other 1.5 MILLION sets previously? Quarters and presidential dollars alone don't explain it, especially since they sold those in separate packaging.
I am probably a fool but I keep picking up these SP 70 sets (ANa, FDI, etc.) for $17-18/slab....I can't see much downside in them...but...I do wear glasses
Back in the '80's, a mint set was what? $7 or $8? A proof set a couple bucks more.
Today, they're 3 times that price point, and quickly lose value to the price of what they cost back in the '80's, for base metal coins with a flat relief, sometimes homely looking quarters, and prezibucks nobody wanted. (Wait, I knew one guy who was a descendant of Polk, and got excited over his dollar coin...)
I don't think it's collector exhaustion, it's collector rejection. I still buy a mint/proof/silver proof set every year for my collection because my OCD won't let me stop, but this years EU set is the first time I've gotten excited(*) about a circulating coin set in years.
(*) Please note that "excited" is a relative term. I'm not even sure "excited" is the right word.
Technically, until they run out of inventory. They only have to be minted in 2017. There's nothing that says they can't keep selling them until, say, the Bears win another super bowl.
Realistically, it depends on the product. Usually it takes about a year before they pull the product. For instance, I think the gold SLQ (and maybe even the WLH) will be gone by the end of this quarter. However, given that they sell a decent amount of mint and proof sets through the year, I could see this set doing the same.
Maybe I'm not being clear or maybe I'm not being read. LOL. But my point is really the series collectors. The total of proof sets sold should be the combination of the number of people who collect the sets as sets PLUS the largest series collectors (probably cents) who want an album coin. One of those groups has gotten significantly smaller, probably the set collectors, but that still leaves the series collectors as the lower limit on such sets.
No, I was just commenting on why the precipitous drop of sales in mint and proof sets. You asked who was buying the other million sets. That's the question I answered. It's the people who no longer think it's worthwhile to get them due to storage and excessive cost.
So long as we're there, you're not defining is what you think a "collector" is. A series collector needs proof coins? Only if you're playing registry games. And those collectors are (relatively) small numbers.
Most "collectors" get their coins from their pocket change and they go into albums or 2x2's.
I did NOT realize the number for Mint & Proof Sets had fallen that much.
It still seems like this EU set is a keeper for the years to come.
I presume it is going to be a 1 year type set. Is this true?
Any help would be great.
Chris
With all those returns, it may make sense for the MInt to have Household Limits of maybe 25.
This would make it harder for all those flippers. And also, when they want to make returns.
I'm assuming if there is a Household Limit and the flippers try to work the loophole & order using their friends & family, then then they try to make a return they would also have to send back the smaller 25 lot package instead of a 100 lot package.
Does this make sense?
Chris
I'm just wondering.
Originally, I ordered 10 sets. Then, I just ordered another 10 sets.
I do NOT collect Mint or Proof Sets, but I'm thinking most collectors who do do NOT purchase more than 1 set.
This leads me to believe a small bit of us have more than our fair share of sets. I'm now holding 20 sets.
I'm NOT a flipper, but I can see the logic, that when the "general public" gets around to wanting these, there
will be a demand for these.
I'm NOT saying these sets will be worth $100's any time soon, but I see these possibly as a $50-$75 set.
There was some hype about the S-mint low mintage, but do you think the "general public" will worry about
collecting ANOTHER coin for the year 2017 ?
Any help would be great.
P.S. Sorry about bombarding the board with posts, but I just had some coffee
Chris
Kind of a stretch to compare this sets with a decently low mintage, unique coins by mint mark and finish, with the recent Mint sets with coins that are uncirculated versions of mega minted regular issues....and in addition to being in these Mint sets, you can get sets with the quarters, and sets with the dollars. Add these numbers in the totals when you compare them to the SP set
In the silver proof sets the only coins that are unique to that set are the dime and half...but they are also in the SE PF set so I take that back
Five non-silver proofs are also in the Birth set...and Birthday sets with five S mint coins
Too many products with the same coins....thus the dilution of interest
Oh yeah. I bought mint and proof sets for the FSQ years. Now, I need to downsize and sell off a bunch.
If you hear someone sobbing, it's probably only me...
You're asking people to predict what a governmental agency will do? Good luck on that one.
That the mint gave the set a "special" designation (i.e. a product number with an "X"), and that it's specifically titled as a 225th anniversary product, my guess it's a one-off. At least I hope it's a one and done.
But also keep in mind that this set is as easy to produce by the SF Mint as is a proof or silver proof set. It uses standard blanks, lenses and packaging, and since all dies are computer created now, it would be an easy product for them to add to the catalog.
Did that help? Probably not. But you got what you paid for!
Nope. They treated this set like any other circulating coin set, even opening up bulk sales to dealers. The very definition of bulk sales, is... Bulk sales, or sales over $5,000.
My solution would be to have a restocking fee of 25% for any returns or cancels over XX pieces, where XX is something like 25 or 50. Fee waived if it's a cancellation within the first 24 hours to account for errors in ordering. This probably would not have stopped the first 20K cancel, since it did occur within a day, but it may have stopped the influx of returns/cancels in the subsequent weeks. It would also penalize those who cherry pick the sets and return sub-par coins to the mint. It would not affect the collector who returns a set or two because of defects.
Edit: Significant changes to the last paragraph...
If by “general public” you mean average collectors, my answer would be “yes”. Why? At $30, the set is affordable to most collectors. It’s attractive in hand. It has several low-mintage key coins that are obtainable only in this set.
Mintmarks do matter, even for coins that were issued only in collector sets. Significant demand exists for date/mm combinations that were never released to circulation. 1996-W Roosevelt dime (mintage 1.4 million) $12. Or 1970-D Kennedy half (mintage 2.1 million) $12. The coins in the 2017-S set are inexpensive by comparison, even though their mintage is multiple times smaller.
Not every collector will want a set, but there should be enough interest from series collectors and mint/proof set collectors to maintain decent demand going forward.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
first strike flag population-1,148
first day of issue flag Denver, population 2,356
My dealer friend has seen some offers to buy on the 70 sets...from walk ins ... no takers .. He sees the Kennedy half in the set as the big winner along with the Lincoln cent .. but said again too many Mint products to move set higher with such a high mintage
Interesting .. some of his dealer friends at the show, bought many sets with hope of a quick ,big score.
So, are you saying coins, as gifts, are the new Christmas fruit cakes?
I think I'd prefer a nice tasty Claxton Fruit Cake over anything from the US Mint. Ummm.... of course if I got anything in Gold or Platinummmm..... especially a 1 oz AGE. Or even the 1 oz APE.
But this unwanted overproduced EU Set? Give me the Claxton..... PLEASE !
SOME series collectors include the proof coins. Some don't. I'm talking about the ones that due. In my experience, it seems to be about 1/3 of the series collectors (based on the albums I buy).
LOL. I think most collectors have OCD. That's why they collect. It's also why they fill holes in albums. IMHO, there's no reason for anyone to collect date/mintmark series since, except for the date/mintmark, they all look alike. This is particularly true of series like Merc Dimes. Most collectors end up with nice AU/Unc coins at the end of the series. Nice XF/AU coins at the beginning. and a mid-grade set of 21's and an AG/Good 16-D. In the end, who wants to look at an AG/Good 16-D when you've got a nice MS-65 1945 that looks almost identical and GLOWS? But because collectors are all a bit OCD, they just have to collect them all. (Just my opinion, of course.)
From the Mint's perspective, it makes more sense to make returns harder. It is easier for the Mint to send out 1000 sets than send out 500 pairs of sets. While there is some long-term advantage to the Mint to make it easier for collectors to acquire sets and, therefore, keep acquiring sets. But that is only part of the big picture of the coin market.
If there is a Household limit of a few, then it is harder for QVC and the big retailers to get large numbers. Those entities do a LOT of marketing that helps the mint. [Yes, some of them also do some damage by over-hyping.] Then you've got the slabbed collectors. It is MUCH MUCH MUCH cheaper for bulk submissions, which requires 100 or more. You need the big players to be slabbing all those coins at $5 to $8 per coin to make 69s and 70s affordable.
Now, you could exempt the largest of the distributors from the limit, but then you are just selectively squeezing out the middle rung guys.
On the other hand, make returns harder and then the middle rung guys will have to be a bit more careful in their ordering but still be in business. But then the little collector has a harder time returning sets...
Or, stated more succinctly: there's no perfect solution.
Not true, I can quit any time I want!
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
This is Comment # 1292. (This comment has not been enhanced or uncirculated.)
Well this is interesting I sent back 3 sets of my 2nd batch of rejected coins (rejected by me). I got the package, 3 replacement coins today. I signed for them at the USPS, and when I got home noticed there was no tape holding the flapped portion of the box but was tucked in so it could not open. Well after I opened the box, there was only two sets of coins in the box. So I called the US Mint person named (Leon) and requested that he send me a return authorization for shipping to my email address as I want ALL my money back. Including the one (1) Stolen set of coins. Leon informed me maybe the shipper ( probably a drugged smoking minimum wage earner ) forgot to put 3 sets of coins and only put in 2. I said right that might stop the Federal Investigation that I am starting for Stealing the 1 set out of the box. Maybe if the ( probably a drugged smoking minimum wage earner ) shipper had tapped the box in the first place the set might still be there. Leon did NOT think it was strange that the ( probably a drugged smoking minimum wage earner ) shipper had NOT TAPPED THE BOX! Turns out Leon NEVER IN HIS ADULT LIFE SENT A BOX PERIOD! Ohhh Boy! I said just send me the return authorization form via my email and get ready for the Federal Investigation that I will be starting Tuesday after the Labor Day holiday!
you really have an issue with smoking drugged people.....dude...lighten up....
Don't quote me on that.
I would respond but I am busy watching the Coin Collector on HSN right now a special 2 hour presentation!
they're generally all 2 hours special filled with special deals
this is a 2 part issue:
1 item would generally be dealt with by Certificate of Non-Receipt
https://catalog.usmint.gov/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-USM-Library/default/dweda9c6d5/images/PDFs/certification-of-non-receipt-form-041317.pdf
the 2 others by a return
I'm not sure the customer rep gave you all of the info,
At minimum I'd have filled out the CNR form above and submitted that despite the return. I'd probably put a copy in the return box.
however, I'd have asked for a supervisor on duty to know how to properly handle this dual situation.
I supposed that the shipper is saving on tape now too! Hurray! Less Packing Supplies Needed!
Me, too. I had a "going out of business" sale in 2002!
>
I was scanning channels and caught the EU set, EU70, being offreded by them. $349 ea. 1092 matched numbered sets "Exclusive" to them first day of issue. By ANACS. He did say he saw PCGS sets for around $650. Said he didn't like them because they didn't match number their sets which is "critical to the collecting process". What a huckster.
Who is this Mike guy he seems real nice not sure if he is too nice?
Pretty ladies too!
Salesman
On tv
So these are overpriced.
And he makes numismatic knowledge mistakes
Salesman
I've seen coupons for hsn and could find no coin use for them that brought the price down to full retail
I'm not sure how well made the wooden boxes are. A coupon on them may make them reasonable, may not. I'm not into pricing display boxes.
Run, do not walk, from a mike coin special.
It is a cursed Mint offering .......
For each $100 you spend, you are getting $25 of value and $75 of smarm...
If that floats your boat, more power to you!
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
+1
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
Sorry nothing to add...
(Wanted Post #750 to this Thread)
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
i usually don't mess with modern coins much, but i really like the enhanced set. i like old gold coins
Thank you for the heads up warning for the HSN coin sale. Mike did not get me this time!!!!! But Ebay did'''''
Hopefully it was a good deal only time will tell but it is autographed!
[ : )
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2017-S-Enhanced-Uncirculated-Coin-Set-PCGS-SP70-ANA-DENVER-FDOI-THOMAS-CLEVELAND/302412356092?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649
population of this set is only 125
No thanks. Not interested in paying a huge premium for a facsimile signature...
Who is Thomas Cleveland anyway?
Signed by Master Designer Thomas Cleveland