@coinpalice said:
I don't see the mint even coming close to 225,000 for a final mintage
That's really hard to say. If they insist on selling 225,000 of them and have 225,000 of them to sell, they could just leave it on sale into next year.
On the other hand, if they are actually removing sets from distribution - which they have NOT suggested they are doing - then they could well "sell-out" at a lower number.
Only time will tell. Either way, it will be months before there is much price appreciation on these sets as they remain available and plentiful. [And I say that as a long-term believer in the sets who is sitting on 152 sets myself.]
I mentioned before that the ATS cut off date for ER is Thursday (received by) so that is probably toast now. Never got a comment on the PCGS cut off date... ????
152 sets is only 4,560 dollars. what's your other options? invest in a oversold stock market? or get 4.60 in interest at a bank after a year? no thanks
[And I say that as a long-term believer in the sets who is sitting on 152 sets myself.]
That;s a 7-11 big gulp.
Actuall, I bought 288 but I sold some as sets and broke some up into singles. My net cost on the remaining 152 is $25.11 per set. You want to be a coin dealer, even part-time, you have to buy coins. I don't usually bother with modern U.S. mint products. But, as I said, I believe in this set over the next couple of years.
@coinpalice said:
152 sets is only 4,560 dollars. what's your other options? invest in a oversold stock market? or get 4.60 in interest at a bank after a year? no thanks
Who says that money has to be spent now? It's ALWAYS an option to wait for better opportunities if one feels that is the best course of action.
I feel this is the best course of action...obviously.
And, I personally place the blame squarely on the US Mint.
Just my two cents.
Wondercoin
@MsMorrisine said:
now taking guesses on how many nurmaler bought then returned, this includes the friends and family network.
likewise for brendanlam.
I'm guessing 1000
and 100
My bet he is in for 3,000.- 6000... maybe more than half returned ..... the sets going no where fast .. All these flippers waiting to sell if ?? prices rise ..
225th set ...dead meat on a hot summer day .... although single coin sales may help
Those named ,are 2 big specs buyers of the set.. several more not yet known
Mint will make changes to their return policy ,after this debacle
[And I say that as a long-term believer in the sets who is sitting on 152 sets myself.]
That;s a 7-11 big gulp.
Actuall, I bought 288 but I sold some as sets and broke some up into singles. My net cost on the remaining 152 is $25.11 per set. You want to be a coin dealer, even part-time, you have to buy coins. I don't usually bother with modern U.S. mint products. But, as I said, I believe in this set over the next couple of years.
LOL folks .. I remember in 2006... the Proof and MS Franklin Comms were a long term sure winner..... take a look where they sell now
@epcjimi1 said:
8/20/2017 211273 -12037
8/24/2017 189,089 coin world report
8/27/2017 187304 -23969
The CWR numbers are not that far off from the USMint, three day difference.
Coin World got the numbers from Mike White, the US Mint spokesman....
@wondercoin said:
And, I personally place the blame squarely on the US Mint.
Why? The mint treated this release like any other circulating coin set. (i.e. Proof and Mint sets. No HHL's, but with a 225K mintage.)
I put the blame squarely and exclusively on those who ordered large quantities and got cold feet. Perhaps the Mint's main mistake was to open this set up to bulk sales. Had they not done that, they wouldn't have gotten those large cancellations, and with a normal sales progression, many of the smaller "investors" wouldn't have gotten their feet cold.
Four weeks into the other 2017 circulating sets, they sold 157K Mint sets and 210K Proof sets. Though I did expect this set to do better (and they have sold better than the regular uncirculated set), having it not sold out yet isn't that much of a surprise considering the recent demand for those sets.
@MsMorrisine said:
Additional demand as stocking stuffers?
Dreaming!
$29.95 is not out of line for a stocking stuffer or other Christmas gift. Many people give coins as gifts to both collectors and non-collectors. Silver eagles are popular gifts as are birth year sets. This is an attractive set at a more than reasonable price, especially considering that it contains key date cents, nickels and dimes.
Yeah, for the past couple of years, I was giving those NA Coin and Currency sets. If they're not going to offer one this year, I might switch to these...
@HalfStrike said:
Had this set been reverse proof it would be well over $100.
Had this set been standard circulation strike it would also be well above issue price, as the coins would have been required in all circulation-strike sets, and (except for the quarters) would have been available nowhere else. The fact that these coins are "enhanced" puts them in somewhat of a grey area, and many collectors of circulation-strike sets may choose to leave them out..
If it was a standard circulation strike, wouldn't it be a mint set?
@MsMorrisine said:
it is possible they short strike these, but with sales near the limit, I do not see that happening. I also do not understand why "retool" would need to be done at all. Dies into presses? Prep the blanks?
Blanks are standard, but they might have to create new dies (if they cancelled all the ones used initially), and then there's the packaging and COA's that would have to be printed.
It would be a bit of work for a few thousand sets...
we will see how close they are to a sell out later today.
Speaking from hindsight, with some 30K sets available, I'd be surprised if they go back to the presses...
@coinpalice said:
if they are still sealed in unopen boxes there is no cut off date for first strike
I realize that but it didn't answer my question. I guess I will have to assume it's the same as ATS....30 days after Day 1 which would be tomorrow. ATS it is a received by date so those are most likely done..PCGS can go on forever with unopened boxes.
@coinpalice said:
if they are still sealed in unopen boxes there is no cut off date for first strike
I realize that but it didn't answer my question. I guess I will have to assume it's the same as ATS....30 days after Day 1 which would be tomorrow. ATS it is a received by date so those are most likely done..PCGS can go on forever with unopened boxes.
Having these graded and paying extra for a Firsr Strike label is financial suicide. There are enough already graded to depress the market for 25 years!
@MsMorrisine said:
it is possible they short strike these, but with sales near the limit, I do not see that happening. I also do not understand why "retool" would need to be done at all. Dies into presses? Prep the blanks?
Blanks are standard, but they might have to create new dies (if they cancelled all the ones used initially), and then there's the packaging and COA's that would have to be printed.
It would be a bit of work for a few thousand sets...
we will see how close they are to a sell out later today.
Speaking from hindsight, with some 30K sets available, I'd be surprised if they go back to the presses...
I am assuming that a good portion of that > -20k change is due to damaged OGP.
(in general, of course there is generally some damaged coins)
From what I understood earlier, the damaged ANA sets and other damaged sets due to poor packaging were damaged in transit indicating OGP damage. The sets seem to be sent in the original boxes of 38 and those boxes have no surrounding padding.
[And I say that as a long-term believer in the sets who is sitting on 152 sets myself.]
That;s a 7-11 big gulp.
Actuall, I bought 288 but I sold some as sets and broke some up into singles. My net cost on the remaining 152 is $25.11 per set. You want to be a coin dealer, even part-time, you have to buy coins. I don't usually bother with modern U.S. mint products. But, as I said, I believe in this set over the next couple of years.
LOL folks .. I remember in 2006... the Proof and MS Franklin Comms were a long term sure winner..... take a look where they sell now
For the record, I have NEVER lost money on U.S. Mint products that I've purchased in bulk. I bought exactly ZERO Franklin Commems.
In fact, if I wanted, I could sell off my 152 at $30 each and be about $800 ahead on the deal. So you can keep pretending that you KNOW what's going to happen with this set, but you don't. No one really does. But I'll bet on me and my track record.
The doomsayers keep pointing to sets that "lost" - and there are plenty. The optimists and pumpers keep pointing to sets that "won" - and there are a few, very few. But only time will tell. I have not been hyping this set in any extreme fashion. I've predicted $50 a year from now and nothing higher than that. I think that is reasonable based on the unique attributes of this set and the ultimate desirability of the individual coins (half and cent, particularly) for series collectors. That is not an extreme position.
And trying to compare this to the Franklins is silly. The Franklin does not fit into anyone's series except for the 16 people who collect all mint commemorative dollars.
@coinpalice said:
if they are still sealed in unopen boxes there is no cut off date for first strike
I realize that but it didn't answer my question. I guess I will have to assume it's the same as ATS....30 days after Day 1 which would be tomorrow. ATS it is a received by date so those are most likely done..PCGS can go on forever with unopened boxes.
Having these graded and paying extra for a Firsr Strike label is financial suicide. There are enough already graded to depress the market for 25 years!
@MsMorrisine said:
now taking guesses on how many nurmaler bought then returned, this includes the friends and family network.
likewise for brendanlam.
And, I personally place the blame squarely on the US Mint.
Just my two cents.
Wondercoin
I like this game. Can I play? What does the winner get? lol
To be very honest though... I did not place any orders myself on day one. Zero.
While I will not disclose exact numbers, I did have a few friends and family buy.
And while I kept* close 60% of my overall exposure - most which I acquired following the initial sell out - several of my f&f canceled / returned orders.
*kept - as in not returned - sold to collectors/dealers etc.
@HalfStrike said:
Had this set been reverse proof it would be well over $100.
Had this set been standard circulation strike it would also be well above issue price, as the coins would have been required in all circulation-strike sets, and (except for the quarters) would have been available nowhere else. The fact that these coins are "enhanced" puts them in somewhat of a grey area, and many collectors of circulation-strike sets may choose to leave them out..
If it was a standard circulation strike, wouldn't it be a mint set?
It would have been an S mint Mint set. But as a straight business strike, series collects could NOT easily argue that it "doesn't belong" in their album. People can, and do, make that argument for proofs all the time. And some people are making that argument for the "enhanced" finish.
@wondercoin said:
And, I personally place the blame squarely on the US Mint.
Why? The mint treated this release like any other circulating coin set. (i.e. Proof and Mint sets. No HHL's, but with a 225K mintage.)
I put the blame squarely and exclusively on those who ordered large quantities and got cold feet. Perhaps the Mint's main mistake was to open this set up to bulk sales. Had they not done that, they wouldn't have gotten those large cancellations, and with a normal sales progression, many of the smaller "investors" wouldn't have gotten their feet cold.
Four weeks into the other 2017 circulating sets, they sold 157K Mint sets and 210K Proof sets. Though I did expect this set to do better (and they have sold better than the regular uncirculated set), having it not sold out yet isn't that much of a surprise considering the recent demand for those sets.
I completely agree. I'll go one step further: it was the 20,000 set order cancelled on August 2nd. [Still not sure who initiated the cancellation: Mint or buyer.] That created the subsequent flipper panic that led to all the returns and cancellations. IF that order had gone through, the set would likely have remained sold out except for the usual small 2nd offering of cancellations/returns.
@MsMorrisine said:
now taking guesses on how many nurmaler bought then returned, this includes the friends and family network.
likewise for brendanlam.
And, I personally place the blame squarely on the US Mint.
Just my two cents.
Wondercoin
I like this game. Can I play? What does the winner get? lol
To be very honest though... I did not place any orders myself on day one. Zero.
While I will not disclose exact numbers, I did have a few friends and family buy.
And while I kept* close 60% of my overall exposure - most which I acquired following the initial sell out - several of my f&f canceled / returned orders.
*kept - as in not returned - sold to collectors/dealers etc.
@MsMorrisine said:
now taking guesses on how many nurmaler bought then returned, this includes the friends and family network.
likewise for brendanlam.
And, I personally place the blame squarely on the US Mint.
Just my two cents.
Wondercoin
I like this game. Can I play? What does the winner get? lol
To be very honest though... I did not place any orders myself on day one. Zero.
While I will not disclose exact numbers, I did have a few friends and family buy.
And while I kept* close 60% of my overall exposure - most which I acquired following the initial sell out - several of my f&f canceled / returned orders.
*kept - as in not returned - sold to collectors/dealers etc.
yes!
please post a guess!
did you vacuum up the f&f sets?
no guess.
but yes, like i said, a few of those f&f orders were canceled / returned once sh*t hit the fan, but i did keep/broker/sell a decent amount
@HalfStrike said:
Had this set been reverse proof it would be well over $100.
Had this set been standard circulation strike it would also be well above issue price, as the coins would have been required in all circulation-strike sets, and (except for the quarters) would have been available nowhere else. The fact that these coins are "enhanced" puts them in somewhat of a grey area, and many collectors of circulation-strike sets may choose to leave them out..
If it was a standard circulation strike, wouldn't it be a mint set?
It would have been an S mint Mint set. But as a straight business strike, series collects could NOT easily argue that it "doesn't belong" in their album. People can, and do, make that argument for proofs all the time. And some people are making that argument for the "enhanced" finish.
I agree, and the price of this set going forward will depend in large part upon what percentage of set collectors decide that these coins belong in their sets. Even 25% might be enough for demand to ultimately outrun the supply. My guess is that the set will increase in value long-term based on the inclusion of the lowest-mintage non-proof cent, nickel and dime. Most coins in the set are close in appearance to regular uncirculated coins, especially on the obverse, and would fit nicely in uncirculated sets.
@HalfStrike said:
Had this set been reverse proof it would be well over $100.
Had this set been standard circulation strike it would also be well above issue price, as the coins would have been required in all circulation-strike sets, and (except for the quarters) would have been available nowhere else. The fact that these coins are "enhanced" puts them in somewhat of a grey area, and many collectors of circulation-strike sets may choose to leave them out..
If it was a standard circulation strike, wouldn't it be a mint set?
It would have been an S mint Mint set. But as a straight business strike, series collects could NOT easily argue that it "doesn't belong" in their album. People can, and do, make that argument for proofs all the time. And some people are making that argument for the "enhanced" finish.
I agree, and the price of this set going forward will depend in large part upon what percentage of set collectors decide that these coins belong in their sets. Even 25% might be enough for demand to ultimately outrun the supply. My guess is that the set will increase in value long-term based on the inclusion of the lowest-mintage non-proof cent, nickel and dime. Most coins in the set are close in appearance to regular uncirculated coins, especially on the obverse, and would fit nicely in uncirculated sets.
I completely agree. And that is why I'm a longer term believer in the series. I don't think a lot of casual collectors realize how different the coin looks in hand. The Mint photos don't do it justice. I think as people see it and given the affordability of adding it to their series, they are going to want to do that.
I'm not predicting huge values for the set. But if someone can add the cent for $10-$15 and the half dollar for $10-15, they are going to do it because it is a nice addition to the set. If it were $100, they would resist far more. But once those two coins alone are worth $25-$30, the set has to appreciate from the $30 offer. In my ever humble opinion, of course.
Here are some of the remaining sets at the fulfillment center just waiting to be shipped out. This photo is actually better than the box I received from UPS when my orders were delivered.
@HalfStrike said:
Had this set been reverse proof it would be well over $100.
Had this set been standard circulation strike it would also be well above issue price, as the coins would have been required in all circulation-strike sets, and (except for the quarters) would have been available nowhere else. The fact that these coins are "enhanced" puts them in somewhat of a grey area, and many collectors of circulation-strike sets may choose to leave them out..
If it was a standard circulation strike, wouldn't it be a mint set?
It would have been an S mint Mint set. But as a straight business strike, series collects could NOT easily argue that it "doesn't belong" in their album. People can, and do, make that argument for proofs all the time. And some people are making that argument for the "enhanced" finish.
Yeah, keep forgetting this is an S-mint product...
@Schmitz7 said:
Here are some of the remaining sets at the fulfillment center just waiting to be shipped out. This photo is actually better than the box I received from UPS when my orders were delivered.
Actual picture of my Truman C&C sets delivered by Smartpost....
I can hardly blame the mint for whose ever elephant (FedEx or USPS?) stepped on the package...
The USMint marketing people have no idea what they are doing. Including the Iowa quarter is a mistake. With a clad set like this you need the best designs included, 225 k? Looks like 175 K would fill the bill, with a bit of buyer speculation enhancing further sales. Seems the USMint is not interested in after market speculation. To the detriment of the USMint.
@epcjimi1 said:
The USMint marketing people have no idea what they are doing. Including the Iowa quarter is a mistake. With a clad set like this you need the best designs included, 225 k? Looks like 175 K would fill the bill, with a bit of buyer speculation enhancing further sales. Seems the USMint is not interested in after market speculation. To the detriment of the USMint.
What are you saying, they should have included quarters from other years? Would have been nice, but not legal. The reason they got away with these coins this year without congressional approval, was because they're 2017 coins.
And hey, don't diss the animal cracker quarter. Iowa doesn't have much more to offer other than corn...
And as for the mintage, this set was for the TWO HUNDRED AND TWENTY-FIFTH ANNIVERSARY. It may have been a little high, but it was a clever nod to their "celebration"...
What are you saying, they should have included quarters from other years? Would have been nice, but not legal. The reason they got away with these coins this year without congressional approval, was because they're 2017 coins.
WTF? Who cares? The Iowa Effigy Mound clad coin is a showstopper. Period.
And hey, don't diss the animal cracker quarter. Iowa doesn't have much more to offer other than corn...
I live in Iowa, the best thing is that there is no-one here, the worst thing, is that there is-no-one here. , it's beans, corn, hogs, cattle, then you are into Nebraska, Illinois, Minnesota, Missouri, depending on your N/S/E/W orientation of travel.
And as for the mintage, this set was for the TWO HUNDRED AND TWENTY-FIFTH ANNIVERSARY. It may have been a little high, but it was a clever nod to their "celebration"...
What are you saying, they should have included quarters from other years? Would have been nice, but not legal. The reason they got away with these coins this year without congressional approval, was because they're 2017 coins.
WTF? Who cares? The Iowa Effigy Mound clad coin is a showstopper. Period.
And hey, don't diss the animal cracker quarter. Iowa doesn't have much more to offer other than corn...
I live in Iowa, the best thing is that there is no-one here, the worst thing, is that there is-no-one here. , it's beans, corn, hogs, cattle, then you are into Nebraska, Illinois, Minnesota, Missouri, depending on your N/S/E/W orientation of travel.
And as for the mintage, this set was for the TWO HUNDRED AND TWENTY-FIFTH ANNIVERSARY. It may have been a little high, but it was a clever nod to their "celebration"...
Buy more.
I'm not sure why you care if this issue NEVER sells out. Each year, the Mint issues Mint sets and proof sets in UNLIMITED QUANTITIES to whomever wants to buy them. If they simply stop selling these sets or take 2 years to sell them out, the only people who would care are speculators trying to profit on them. Speculator profit doesn't go to the Mint, it goes to the speculator.
A collector should be happy there is sufficient supply. A speculator should be unhappy there is an excess supply. Why do you want the Mint to care about speculators? Why do you?
What are you saying, they should have included quarters from other years? Would have been nice, but not legal. The reason they got away with these coins this year without congressional approval, was because they're 2017 coins.
WTF? Who cares? The Iowa Effigy Mound clad coin is a showstopper. Period.
And hey, don't diss the animal cracker quarter. Iowa doesn't have much more to offer other than corn...
I live in Iowa, the best thing is that there is no-one here, the worst thing, is that there is-no-one here. , it's beans, corn, hogs, cattle, then you are into Nebraska, Illinois, Minnesota, Missouri, depending on your N/S/E/W orientation of travel.
And as for the mintage, this set was for the TWO HUNDRED AND TWENTY-FIFTH ANNIVERSARY. It may have been a little high, but it was a clever nod to their "celebration"...
Buy more.
and, frankly, the Mint creates a "winner" every now and then to intentionally entice people to buy all the "losers". This set may not be the big winner that some of the other sets were. But, again, a collector should be mad at the Mint for creating intentional "rarities" to trick them into buying crap that just goes down in value the minute they buy it.
A collector should be happy there is sufficient supply. A speculator should be unhappy there is an excess supply. Really? Why do you want the Mint to care about speculators? Why do you?
Speculation on afternarket price increases interest in future USMint product,, which results in future sales.
A collector should be happy there is sufficient supply. A speculator should be unhappy there is an excess supply. Why do you want the Mint to care about speculators? Why do you?
Speculation on afternarket price increases interest in future USMint product.
See my previous post. That's a game to trick you into buying the losers. Collectors should HATE IT.
A collector should be happy there is sufficient supply. A speculator should be unhappy there is an excess supply. Why do you want the Mint to care about speculators? Why do you?
Speculation on afternarket price increases interest in future USMint product.
See my previous post. That's a game to trick you into buying the losers. Collectors should HATE IT.
Modify, edit, change your post, whatever, LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLLOLLOLLLLLOLOOLLOLOL
A collector should be happy there is sufficient supply. A speculator should be unhappy there is an excess supply. Why do you want the Mint to care about speculators? Why do you?
Speculation on afternarket price increases interest in future USMint product.
See my previous post. That's a game to trick you into buying the losers. Collectors should HATE IT.
Modify, edit, change your post, whatever, LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLLOLLOLLLLLOLOOLLOLOL
What are you saying? I didn't modify/edit/change anything. Scroll up.
But, whatever nonsense you're spouting, it doesn't change the point. Collector's want access to coins at a reasonable price. They should be happy that this issue didn't sell out. I take it you are a speculator. So, good luck to you.
What will be the Under /Over ,for 225th sets ,returned to the Mint .. 50,000 sets returned to the Mint ????
Ya just got to admit many big lot buyers got suckered into their own hubris ,of making a killing on the 225th sets
Now ,These buyers keep on trying to convince themselves they are right ,and The Market is wrong
Cost of Mint returns have likely turned 225th sets into a loser for The Mint
@bestday said:
What will be the Under /Over ,for 225th sets ,returned to the Mint .. 50,000 sets returned to the Mint ????
Ya just got to admit many big lot buyers got suckered into their own hubris ,of making a killing on the 225th sets
Now ,These buyers keep on trying to convince themselves they are right ,and The Market is wrong
Cost of Mint returns have likely turned 225th sets into a loser for The Mint
Comments
I don't see the mint even coming close to 225,000 for a final mintage
That's really hard to say. If they insist on selling 225,000 of them and have 225,000 of them to sell, they could just leave it on sale into next year.
On the other hand, if they are actually removing sets from distribution - which they have NOT suggested they are doing - then they could well "sell-out" at a lower number.
Only time will tell. Either way, it will be months before there is much price appreciation on these sets as they remain available and plentiful. [And I say that as a long-term believer in the sets who is sitting on 152 sets myself.]
I mentioned before that the ATS cut off date for ER is Thursday (received by) so that is probably toast now. Never got a comment on the PCGS cut off date... ????
if they are still sealed in unopen boxes there is no cut off date for first strike
[And I say that as a long-term believer in the sets who is sitting on 152 sets myself.]
That;s a 7-11 big gulp.
152 sets is only 4,560 dollars. what's your other options? invest in a oversold stock market? or get 4.60 in interest at a bank after a year? no thanks
now taking guesses on how many nurmaler bought then returned, this includes the friends and family network.
likewise for brendanlam.
I'm guessing 1000
and 100
I'll guess 10,000 and 100
And, I personally place the blame squarely on the US Mint.
Just my two cents.
Wondercoin
As we approach 1 month since sales began, there is still no posting on the First Strike page of an official cut off date for this set or single coins.
it is likely the first sale date + 30 since these went on sale at ANA day 1.
May as well take (currently available (again)) off the title
they will likely run into the next year
Actuall, I bought 288 but I sold some as sets and broke some up into singles. My net cost on the remaining 152 is $25.11 per set. You want to be a coin dealer, even part-time, you have to buy coins. I don't usually bother with modern U.S. mint products. But, as I said, I believe in this set over the next couple of years.
I feel this is the best course of action...obviously.
My bet he is in for 3,000.- 6000... maybe more than half returned ..... the sets going no where fast .. All these flippers waiting to sell if ?? prices rise ..
225th set ...dead meat on a hot summer day .... although single coin sales may help
Those named ,are 2 big specs buyers of the set.. several more not yet known
Mint will make changes to their return policy ,after this debacle
LOL folks .. I remember in 2006... the Proof and MS Franklin Comms were a long term sure winner..... take a look where they sell now
Coin World got the numbers from Mike White, the US Mint spokesman....
This is the mints return department.
Why? The mint treated this release like any other circulating coin set. (i.e. Proof and Mint sets. No HHL's, but with a 225K mintage.)
I put the blame squarely and exclusively on those who ordered large quantities and got cold feet. Perhaps the Mint's main mistake was to open this set up to bulk sales. Had they not done that, they wouldn't have gotten those large cancellations, and with a normal sales progression, many of the smaller "investors" wouldn't have gotten their feet cold.
Four weeks into the other 2017 circulating sets, they sold 157K Mint sets and 210K Proof sets. Though I did expect this set to do better (and they have sold better than the regular uncirculated set), having it not sold out yet isn't that much of a surprise considering the recent demand for those sets.
Well, they are currently available. I'll change the title (again) when something significant happens...
Yeah, for the past couple of years, I was giving those NA Coin and Currency sets. If they're not going to offer one this year, I might switch to these...
If it was a standard circulation strike, wouldn't it be a mint set?
Blanks are standard, but they might have to create new dies (if they cancelled all the ones used initially), and then there's the packaging and COA's that would have to be printed.
It would be a bit of work for a few thousand sets...
Speaking from hindsight, with some 30K sets available, I'd be surprised if they go back to the presses...
I realize that but it didn't answer my question. I guess I will have to assume it's the same as ATS....30 days after Day 1 which would be tomorrow. ATS it is a received by date so those are most likely done..PCGS can go on forever with unopened boxes.
Having these graded and paying extra for a Firsr Strike label is financial suicide. There are enough already graded to depress the market for 25 years!
I am assuming that a good portion of that > -20k change is due to damaged OGP.
(in general, of course there is generally some damaged coins)
From what I understood earlier, the damaged ANA sets and other damaged sets due to poor packaging were damaged in transit indicating OGP damage. The sets seem to be sent in the original boxes of 38 and those boxes have no surrounding padding.
For the record, I have NEVER lost money on U.S. Mint products that I've purchased in bulk. I bought exactly ZERO Franklin Commems.
In fact, if I wanted, I could sell off my 152 at $30 each and be about $800 ahead on the deal. So you can keep pretending that you KNOW what's going to happen with this set, but you don't. No one really does. But I'll bet on me and my track record.
The doomsayers keep pointing to sets that "lost" - and there are plenty. The optimists and pumpers keep pointing to sets that "won" - and there are a few, very few. But only time will tell. I have not been hyping this set in any extreme fashion. I've predicted $50 a year from now and nothing higher than that. I think that is reasonable based on the unique attributes of this set and the ultimate desirability of the individual coins (half and cent, particularly) for series collectors. That is not an extreme position.
And trying to compare this to the Franklins is silly. The Franklin does not fit into anyone's series except for the 16 people who collect all mint commemorative dollars.
Individually, yes. In bulk?
I like this game. Can I play? What does the winner get? lol
To be very honest though... I did not place any orders myself on day one. Zero.
While I will not disclose exact numbers, I did have a few friends and family buy.
And while I kept* close 60% of my overall exposure - most which I acquired following the initial sell out - several of my f&f canceled / returned orders.
*kept - as in not returned - sold to collectors/dealers etc.
It would have been an S mint Mint set. But as a straight business strike, series collects could NOT easily argue that it "doesn't belong" in their album. People can, and do, make that argument for proofs all the time. And some people are making that argument for the "enhanced" finish.
I completely agree. I'll go one step further: it was the 20,000 set order cancelled on August 2nd. [Still not sure who initiated the cancellation: Mint or buyer.] That created the subsequent flipper panic that led to all the returns and cancellations. IF that order had gone through, the set would likely have remained sold out except for the usual small 2nd offering of cancellations/returns.
it could still be 1000!> @nurmaler said:
yes!
please post a guess!
did you vacuum up the f&f sets?
no guess.
but yes, like i said, a few of those f&f orders were canceled / returned once sh*t hit the fan, but i did keep/broker/sell a decent amount
I agree, and the price of this set going forward will depend in large part upon what percentage of set collectors decide that these coins belong in their sets. Even 25% might be enough for demand to ultimately outrun the supply. My guess is that the set will increase in value long-term based on the inclusion of the lowest-mintage non-proof cent, nickel and dime. Most coins in the set are close in appearance to regular uncirculated coins, especially on the obverse, and would fit nicely in uncirculated sets.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Especially since collectors have now had plenty of time and opportunity to purchase sets, if they wish to.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
I completely agree. And that is why I'm a longer term believer in the series. I don't think a lot of casual collectors realize how different the coin looks in hand. The Mint photos don't do it justice. I think as people see it and given the affordability of adding it to their series, they are going to want to do that.
I'm not predicting huge values for the set. But if someone can add the cent for $10-$15 and the half dollar for $10-15, they are going to do it because it is a nice addition to the set. If it were $100, they would resist far more. But once those two coins alone are worth $25-$30, the set has to appreciate from the $30 offer. In my ever humble opinion, of course.
Here are some of the remaining sets at the fulfillment center just waiting to be shipped out. This photo is actually better than the box I received from UPS when my orders were delivered.
Yeah, keep forgetting this is an S-mint product...
Actual picture of my Truman C&C sets delivered by Smartpost....
I can hardly blame the mint for whose ever elephant (FedEx or USPS?) stepped on the package...
The USMint marketing people have no idea what they are doing. Including the Iowa quarter is a mistake. With a clad set like this you need the best designs included, 225 k? Looks like 175 K would fill the bill, with a bit of buyer speculation enhancing further sales. Seems the USMint is not interested in after market speculation. To the detriment of the USMint.
What are you saying, they should have included quarters from other years? Would have been nice, but not legal. The reason they got away with these coins this year without congressional approval, was because they're 2017 coins.
And hey, don't diss the animal cracker quarter. Iowa doesn't have much more to offer other than corn...
And as for the mintage, this set was for the TWO HUNDRED AND TWENTY-FIFTH ANNIVERSARY. It may have been a little high, but it was a clever nod to their "celebration"...
WTF? Who cares? The Iowa Effigy Mound clad coin is a showstopper. Period.
I live in Iowa, the best thing is that there is no-one here, the worst thing, is that there is-no-one here. , it's beans, corn, hogs, cattle, then you are into Nebraska, Illinois, Minnesota, Missouri, depending on your N/S/E/W orientation of travel.
Buy more.
I'm not sure why you care if this issue NEVER sells out. Each year, the Mint issues Mint sets and proof sets in UNLIMITED QUANTITIES to whomever wants to buy them. If they simply stop selling these sets or take 2 years to sell them out, the only people who would care are speculators trying to profit on them. Speculator profit doesn't go to the Mint, it goes to the speculator.
A collector should be happy there is sufficient supply. A speculator should be unhappy there is an excess supply. Why do you want the Mint to care about speculators? Why do you?
and, frankly, the Mint creates a "winner" every now and then to intentionally entice people to buy all the "losers". This set may not be the big winner that some of the other sets were. But, again, a collector should be mad at the Mint for creating intentional "rarities" to trick them into buying crap that just goes down in value the minute they buy it.
Speculation on afternarket price increases interest in future USMint product,, which results in future sales.
Next question.
See my previous post. That's a game to trick you into buying the losers. Collectors should HATE IT.
Modify, edit, change your post, whatever, LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLLOLLOLLLLLOLOOLLOLOL
What are you saying? I didn't modify/edit/change anything. Scroll up.
But, whatever nonsense you're spouting, it doesn't change the point. Collector's want access to coins at a reasonable price. They should be happy that this issue didn't sell out. I take it you are a speculator. So, good luck to you.
What will be the Under /Over ,for 225th sets ,returned to the Mint .. 50,000 sets returned to the Mint ????
Ya just got to admit many big lot buyers got suckered into their own hubris ,of making a killing on the 225th sets
Now ,These buyers keep on trying to convince themselves they are right ,and The Market is wrong
Cost of Mint returns have likely turned 225th sets into a loser for The Mint
This Thread has legs .. Still no BST listings for Graded 225 sets ...
I'm guessing the major returns have hit.
so -36k