Party over falling graed ses make > @BStrauss3 said:
I think those two examples show the basic problem: 90% 70s, 10% 69s.
If those kind of #s hold up, there's very little registry incentive driving up top pop prices - the only thing standing between you and it is buying a couple sets and sending the best coin off to be graded.
It's the same kind of thing we've seen in the proof sets of the 1960s - by now just about every set remaining has been picked over by several dealers and any with decent coins have been broken up to be slabbed. So you start with the assumption that the pile at a dealers table at a show are pretty much dogs.
It will take a lot of years to work through 225K sets, but ... the end game is the same...
Mint won't toss out the sets yet..... they will stay on sale
Seems some posters ginning up hope.... just more wishful thinking by holders of too many sets .. meaning weak hands. The high % of 70s will dash any hope of big price rises
As my friend stated . too many Mint products floating around for any price appreciation ..
@aus3000tin said:
Is this a set that will be worth more still in the OGP ??
Seems like everyone & his mother is breaking them out & sending them to be graded.
Any comments ???
Chris
That is what I was thinking. The sets I have will remain in the OGP.
I purchased a set of quarters from a forum member that I plan to use in an album of
ATB quarters that I'm building.
~HABE FIDUCIAM IN DOMINO III V VI / III XVI~ POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
giving up hope? the pcgs price guide value is 100 dollars in SP-70 for the sac dollar. as far as too many sets floating around, there is only one enhanced set with a S mintmark and a SP finish
most of the 2000 millennium coinage and currency sets were broken up for grading, mintage 75,000. the ones that are still sealed in original shipping box sell for up to 120 dollars.
@coinpalice said:
giving up hope? the pcgs price guide value is 100 dollars in SP-70 for the sac dollar. as far as too many sets floating around, there is only one enhanced set with a S mintmark and a SP finish
One of the WORST things you can do is go by the price guide for a modern coin.
You will get bitten in the ass more than you will ever want to believe, when you go to sell.
@coinpalice said:
most of the 2000 millennium coinage and currency sets were broken up for grading, mintage 75,000. the ones that are still sealed in original shipping box sell for up to 120 dollars.
there were fewer coins and the big one was made with lesser quality than this set.
they sell for more because of the hope in finding an undiscovered high grade coin out of 75,000.
this set is at 225,000. There will be plenty of gradable coins out there for those that need them.
There won't be a prop up from the undiscovered aspect of an OGP set.
@coinpalice said:
giving up hope? the pcgs price guide value is 100 dollars in SP-70 for the sac dollar. as far as too many sets floating around, there is only one enhanced set with a S mintmark and a SP finish
One of the WORST things you can do is go by the price guide for a modern coin.
You will get bitten in the ass more than you will ever want to believe, when you go to sell.
Yes Bochiman....The dealer buy price for Modern Comms is for silver value .. yet price guide has higher
@coinpalice said:
giving up hope? the pcgs price guide value is 100 dollars in SP-70 for the sac dollar. as far as too many sets floating around, there is only one enhanced set with a S mintmark and a SP finish
One of the WORST things you can do is go by the price guide for a modern coin.
You will get bitten in the ass more than you will ever want to believe, when you go to sell.
Yes Bochiman....The dealer buy price for Modern Comms is for silver value .. yet price guide has higher
Not true of all of them. It is true of a lot of them.
@coinpalice said:
with the high amount of 70's will only make the ungraded sets worth more
Why? So you could submit later and try to get a 71? ...or do you think that, when the dust settles, there will be more 70 sets than raw sets?
I think the cost of grading a set by a collector is so high that the only sets that will be graded will come from dealers with bulk discounts. I usually buy my sets and have them graded but there was no way I was spending that much cash to try and get 70's. I just bought the 70's for MUCH cheaper that I would have had to pay to submit.
2000 sets broken out of 224,000 is typical and the Graded price is pretty much on par with cost of coins grading shipping and Handling. I will keep a few more raw in OMP unopened. Box as I just like the coins in general.
@Kkathyl said:
... and the Graded price is pretty much on par with cost of coins grading shipping and Handling. . >
PCGS FS 10 coin SP70 sets can be had for $175-180. I must be missing something if a collector could buy a set of 10 coins , ship, have graded with FS, and shipped back for that price ...and get all 70's...that would be $18/coin total for just buying the already graded 70's
All circulation-strike Lincoln shield cents have less than 1,000 graded for each date/mm. This would imply a max of about 2,000 each from all grading services. Many more sets than that have been and will be broken up so that collectors can obtain raw specimens of individual coins for their sets. This means that for a huge majority of sets, the price will be driven by demand for intact sets and raw singles, not graded specimens. Yes, 70's will be worth more , but their value will be held in check by the presence of an ample quantity of first-strike-eligible sets in their original boxes, put away by collectors/investors (not flippers) who are hoping that the prices of these sets will gradually increase over time.
Don't you just HATE HATE HATE on the mint for making SO many of the coins 70 quality?
They need to ratchet it down so only 2 3% are 70's, so the prices for 70 sets will sky rocket. but allow for free returns so that all the sets can be picked over at their cost.
@Manorcourtman said:
Those who want ungraded sets have already got them.
Over the years there will be plenty of additional demand from new collectors, those buying for stocking stuffers or other gifts, and existing collectors who later decide they want sets for their collections.
@bestday said:
Abundance of 70s cuts down demand for raw sets .....notice lack of any sets on BST at all .
That's because sets are still available from the Mint at original issue price.
@MsMorrisine said:
Additional demand as stocking stuffers?
Dreaming!
$29.95 is not out of line for a stocking stuffer or other Christmas gift. Many people give coins as gifts to both collectors and non-collectors. Silver eagles are popular gifts as are birth year sets. This is an attractive set at a more than reasonable price, especially considering that it contains key date cents, nickels and dimes.
@MsMorrisine said:
Additional demand as stocking stuffers?
Dreaming!
$29.95 is not out of line for a stocking stuffer or other Christmas gift. Many people give coins as gifts to both collectors and non-collectors. Silver eagles are popular gifts as are birth year sets. This is an attractive set at a more than reasonable price, especially considering that it contains key date cents, nickels and dimes.
Demand must really be slowing, if conversation turns to depleting supply of 225th sets with stocking stuffers.
When will latest Mint sales figures for the 225th set become available ?
Demand must really be slowing, if conversation turns to depleting supply of 225th sets with stocking stuffers.
What I originally said was "Over the years there will be plenty of additional demand from new collectors, those buying for stocking stuffers or other gifts, and existing collectors who later decide they want sets for their collections."
I have no idea how long this set will take to sell out. But I have seen other instances of collectors initially disliking a set that later proved very popular. The 1995 10th anniversary Gold Eagle proof set is a textbook example. Collectors had the choice of purchasing the set with or without the "bonus" 1995-W Silver Eagle at the same price, $995. Many collectors protested the Mint's "gimmick" of including an "artificial rarity" in the set. Thousands of them chose to purchase the set from the Mint without the Silver Eagle, while the set containing the Silver Eagle failed to sell out. Today the set without the Silver Eagle sells for about $2700 (not much above its gold value), while the set with the Silver Eagle routinely brings more than double that price.
@MsMorrisine said:
Additional demand as stocking stuffers?
Dreaming!
$29.95 is not out of line for a stocking stuffer or other Christmas gift. Many people give coins as gifts to both collectors and non-collectors. Silver eagles are popular gifts as are birth year sets. This is an attractive set at a more than reasonable price, especially considering that it contains key date cents, nickels and dimes.
Demand must really be slowing, if conversation turns to depleting supply of 225th sets with stocking stuffers.
When will latest Mint sales figures for the 225th set become available ?
@HalfStrike said:
Had this set been reverse proof it would be well over $100.
Had this set been standard circulation strike it would also be well above issue price, as the coins would have been required in all circulation-strike sets, and (except for the quarters) would have been available nowhere else. The fact that these coins are "enhanced" puts them in somewhat of a grey area, and many collectors of circulation-strike sets may choose to leave them out..
With many being returned quality reasons and damaged in shipping, maybe a high rate of 20% returned or cancelled ? Will the actual amt be a lot less than 225K. Will they destroy unsold sets ? Won't know for a couple of years I guess.
@MsMorrisine said:
If any are destroyed due to damage, I feel confident new coins will be minted to replace them.
They can always sell on backorder.
I wouldn't be so sure. The primary role of the Mint is not collector coins, it's coinage for circulation. They would need to balance the effort required to retool and re-mint a special issue against all of the other mint activity including other commemorative issues and regular circulation coinage.
I agree. The Mint is just trying to move on from this cluster and hopefully will learn something from it in regards to allowing huge orders and huge cancellations/returns on a limited edition set. This set was issued four weeks ago and the sets remaining, as of this weekend, are (is) still climbing...
it is possible they short strike these, but with sales near the limit, I do not see that happening. I also do not understand why "retool" would need to be done at all. Dies into presses? Prep the blanks?
we will see how close they are to a sell out later today.
If the mint did decide to make more, hopefully someone would do a cost benefit analysis to determine if it was worth it.
For example, to mint 1 quarter, if a special blank is needed, special dies loaded into the tool, ensuring that production is separated from all other production, etc., it might cost $1000 to make 1 coin, $500 to make 2, and 20 cents to make 24 cents each to make 10,000.
I held manufacturing positions, from supervisor to plant manager for 30+ years, and it always astounded me how the bean counters and others had no vision of the costs of 1 versus 1,000,000 widgits.
they also mint over just in case. it would be interesting to ask them if the overage covers the current needs.
also, there is a lot of talk about damaged items. I believe it is largely the OGP that is damaged. the lenses are easy to replace as they are universal over the proofs and this set. the box and coa are a different story.
@HalfStrike said:
Had this set been reverse proof it would be well over $100.
Had this set been standard circulation strike it would also be well above issue price, as the coins would have been required in all circulation-strike sets, and (except for the quarters) would have been available nowhere else. The fact that these coins are "enhanced" puts them in somewhat of a grey area, and many collectors of circulation-strike sets may choose to leave them out..
Yes, it's too bad that they picked the one that turns out to be a dud.
The black goop in these sets is die set-up grease from the coinage press machine that is used to lubricate the press. It is supposed to be cleaned off the machine before striking coins by the press operator Oops!
@coinpalice said:
The black goop in these sets is die set-up grease from the coinage press machine that is used to lubricate the press. It is supposed to be cleaned off the machine before striking coins by the press operator Oops!
I returned 3 out of 9 sets because of that issue. I kept 2 sets which only had very minor set up grease. Only 4 sets had no issues....I consider that exceptional poor quality control. BTW all sets are geared as X'mas presents.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
@mustangmanbob said:
If the mint did decide to make more, hopefully someone would do a cost benefit analysis to determine if it was worth it.
For example, to mint 1 quarter, if a special blank is needed, special dies loaded into the tool, ensuring that production is separated from all other production, etc., it might cost $1000 to make 1 coin, $500 to make 2, and 20 cents to make 24 cents each to make 10,000.
I held manufacturing positions, from supervisor to plant manager for 30+ years, and it always astounded me how the bean counters and others had no vision of the costs of 1 versus 1,000,000 widgits.
Agree. That's why you would see those crazy $10,000 hammers at the Defense Department or NASA. A one-off tool is very expensive and even a limited run can be expensive when you have set-up and tear-down on equipment that is used for normal production. If I'm running the mint, I really don't care to replace a few thousand collector coins.
8/20/2017 211273 -12037
8/24/2017 189,089 coin world report
8/27/2017 187304 -23969
The CWR numbers are not that far off from the USMint, three day difference.
Comments
if they are 70's they are 70's
Party over falling graed ses make > @BStrauss3 said:
Mint won't toss out the sets yet..... they will stay on sale
Seems some posters ginning up hope.... just more wishful thinking by holders of too many sets .. meaning weak hands. The high % of 70s will dash any hope of big price rises
As my friend stated . too many Mint products floating around for any price appreciation ..
all my sets were good. I left a few in unopen boxes in case I don't make grading deadline
That is what I was thinking. The sets I have will remain in the OGP.
I purchased a set of quarters from a forum member that I plan to use in an album of
ATB quarters that I'm building.
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
giving up hope? the pcgs price guide value is 100 dollars in SP-70 for the sac dollar. as far as too many sets floating around, there is only one enhanced set with a S mintmark and a SP finish
with the high amount of 70's will only make the ungraded sets worth more
most of the 2000 millennium coinage and currency sets were broken up for grading, mintage 75,000. the ones that are still sealed in original shipping box sell for up to 120 dollars.
One of the WORST things you can do is go by the price guide for a modern coin.
You will get bitten in the ass more than you will ever want to believe, when you go to sell.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
there were fewer coins and the big one was made with lesser quality than this set.
they sell for more because of the hope in finding an undiscovered high grade coin out of 75,000.
this set is at 225,000. There will be plenty of gradable coins out there for those that need them.
There won't be a prop up from the undiscovered aspect of an OGP set.
Yes Bochiman....The dealer buy price for Modern Comms is for silver value .. yet price guide has higher
Not true of all of them. It is true of a lot of them.
Why? So you could submit later and try to get a 71? ...or do you think that, when the dust settles, there will be more 70 sets than raw sets?
I think the cost of grading a set by a collector is so high that the only sets that will be graded will come from dealers with bulk discounts. I usually buy my sets and have them graded but there was no way I was spending that much cash to try and get 70's. I just bought the 70's for MUCH cheaper that I would have had to pay to submit.
2000 sets broken out of 224,000 is typical and the Graded price is pretty much on par with cost of coins grading shipping and Handling. I will keep a few more raw in OMP unopened. Box as I just like the coins in general.
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
PCGS FS 10 coin SP70 sets can be had for $175-180. I must be missing something if a collector could buy a set of 10 coins , ship, have graded with FS, and shipped back for that price ...and get all 70's...that would be $18/coin total for just buying the already graded 70's
All circulation-strike Lincoln shield cents have less than 1,000 graded for each date/mm. This would imply a max of about 2,000 each from all grading services. Many more sets than that have been and will be broken up so that collectors can obtain raw specimens of individual coins for their sets. This means that for a huge majority of sets, the price will be driven by demand for intact sets and raw singles, not graded specimens. Yes, 70's will be worth more , but their value will be held in check by the presence of an ample quantity of first-strike-eligible sets in their original boxes, put away by collectors/investors (not flippers) who are hoping that the prices of these sets will gradually increase over time.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Don't you just HATE HATE HATE on the mint for making SO many of the coins 70 quality?
They need to ratchet it down so only 2 3% are 70's, so the prices for 70 sets will sky rocket. but allow for free returns so that all the sets can be picked over at their cost.
Quite the opposite in my opinion. Those who want ungraded sets have already got them.
No big run up for sets > @Manorcourtman said:
Abundance of 70s cuts down demand for raw sets .....notice lack of any sets on BST at all .
There are many big lot sets waiting to be sold, that were sucked into buying, by the supposed early Mint sellout
Are we up to 20,000 sets remaining or are we finally going the other way...
Don't quote me on that.
Over the years there will be plenty of additional demand from new collectors, those buying for stocking stuffers or other gifts, and existing collectors who later decide they want sets for their collections.
That's because sets are still available from the Mint at original issue price.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Additional demand as stocking stuffers?
Dreaming!
MsMorrisine I like your Icon. Twilight Zone ,Billy Mummy "Its a good life" episode. Great episode.
$29.95 is not out of line for a stocking stuffer or other Christmas gift. Many people give coins as gifts to both collectors and non-collectors. Silver eagles are popular gifts as are birth year sets. This is an attractive set at a more than reasonable price, especially considering that it contains key date cents, nickels and dimes.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Isn'yt amazing this is the 1st Mint p
When will latest Mint sales figures for the 225th set become available ?
maybe nurmaler can give up a in stock update
There are over 9,999, so i can't. ;-)
Demand must really be slowing, if conversation turns to depleting supply of 225th sets with stocking stuffers.
What I originally said was "Over the years there will be plenty of additional demand from new collectors, those buying for stocking stuffers or other gifts, and existing collectors who later decide they want sets for their collections."
I have no idea how long this set will take to sell out. But I have seen other instances of collectors initially disliking a set that later proved very popular. The 1995 10th anniversary Gold Eagle proof set is a textbook example. Collectors had the choice of purchasing the set with or without the "bonus" 1995-W Silver Eagle at the same price, $995. Many collectors protested the Mint's "gimmick" of including an "artificial rarity" in the set. Thousands of them chose to purchase the set from the Mint without the Silver Eagle, while the set containing the Silver Eagle failed to sell out. Today the set without the Silver Eagle sells for about $2700 (not much above its gold value), while the set with the Silver Eagle routinely brings more than double that price.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Tuesday
I may soon even buy a set from the Mint
Had this set been reverse proof it would be well over $100.
I took "over the years" into the account.
Hurry up before they are gone......just kidding
Had this set been standard circulation strike it would also be well above issue price, as the coins would have been required in all circulation-strike sets, and (except for the quarters) would have been available nowhere else. The fact that these coins are "enhanced" puts them in somewhat of a grey area, and many collectors of circulation-strike sets may choose to leave them out..
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
With many being returned quality reasons and damaged in shipping, maybe a high rate of 20% returned or cancelled ? Will the actual amt be a lot less than 225K. Will they destroy unsold sets ? Won't know for a couple of years I guess.
If any are destroyed due to damage, I feel confident new coins will be minted to replace them.
They can always sell on backorder.
I wouldn't be so sure. The primary role of the Mint is not collector coins, it's coinage for circulation. They would need to balance the effort required to retool and re-mint a special issue against all of the other mint activity including other commemorative issues and regular circulation coinage.
I agree. The Mint is just trying to move on from this cluster and hopefully will learn something from it in regards to allowing huge orders and huge cancellations/returns on a limited edition set. This set was issued four weeks ago and the sets remaining, as of this weekend, are (is) still climbing...
it is possible they short strike these, but with sales near the limit, I do not see that happening. I also do not understand why "retool" would need to be done at all. Dies into presses? Prep the blanks?
we will see how close they are to a sell out later today.
If the mint did decide to make more, hopefully someone would do a cost benefit analysis to determine if it was worth it.
For example, to mint 1 quarter, if a special blank is needed, special dies loaded into the tool, ensuring that production is separated from all other production, etc., it might cost $1000 to make 1 coin, $500 to make 2, and 20 cents to make 24 cents each to make 10,000.
I held manufacturing positions, from supervisor to plant manager for 30+ years, and it always astounded me how the bean counters and others had no vision of the costs of 1 versus 1,000,000 widgits.
they also mint over just in case. it would be interesting to ask them if the overage covers the current needs.
also, there is a lot of talk about damaged items. I believe it is largely the OGP that is damaged. the lenses are easy to replace as they are universal over the proofs and this set. the box and coa are a different story.
Yes, it's too bad that they picked the one that turns out to be a dud.
How many damaged sets returned due to the faux damaged cent dented rim at 3 O'clock?
The black goop in these sets is die set-up grease from the coinage press machine that is used to lubricate the press. It is supposed to be cleaned off the machine before striking coins by the press operator Oops!
I returned 3 out of 9 sets because of that issue. I kept 2 sets which only had very minor set up grease. Only 4 sets had no issues....I consider that exceptional poor quality control. BTW all sets are geared as X'mas presents.
Agree. That's why you would see those crazy $10,000 hammers at the Defense Department or NASA. A one-off tool is very expensive and even a limited run can be expensive when you have set-up and tear-down on equipment that is used for normal production. If I'm running the mint, I really don't care to replace a few thousand collector coins.
Whoops!
Has the 225th Mint return deadline already passed for anymore sets ?
8/20/2017 211273 -12037
8/24/2017 189,089 coin world report
8/27/2017 187304 -23969
The CWR numbers are not that far off from the USMint, three day difference.
This product is on a crazy roller coaster.