@bestday said:
Look at these ebay prices from 2 hours ago, today.. 10pc.. NGC 70s ANA Denver 1st day Show label.. $141
10pc..NGC 70s 1st releases.. $124
10pc..NGC 70s Early Release...$121
10pc .NGC 70s ANA Denver 1st Day.. $128
And, again, I'm not sure what that indicates other than you have to be an idiot to run these as auctions with the current uncertainty around the price. The cents alone are selling for $60 to $100. Clearly, the other coins are free.
@bestday said:
Look at these ebay prices from 2 hours ago, today.. 10pc.. NGC 70s ANA Denver 1st day Show label.. $141
10pc..NGC 70s 1st releases.. $124
10pc..NGC 70s Early Release...$121
10pc .NGC 70s ANA Denver 1st Day.. $128
I didn't see those prices.....I would have bought them.....maybe my query is crap...
@bestday said:
Look at these ebay prices from 2 hours ago, today.. 10pc.. NGC 70s ANA Denver 1st day Show label.. $141
10pc..NGC 70s 1st releases.. $124
10pc..NGC 70s Early Release...$121
10pc .NGC 70s ANA Denver 1st Day.. $128
And, again, I'm not sure what that indicates other than you have to be an idiot to run these as auctions with the current uncertainty around the price. The cents alone are selling for $60 to $100. Clearly, the other coins are free.
Enhanced set....Raw Lincoln Cents going for $6 - 8.00 on ebay
@coinpalice said:
I would assume you get a dealer discount if you grade 500 or more, but with the current prices, you would be better off buying them online. not all of them are going to be 70's, most will though. they are currently taking a loss at current prices and taking bigger hits on the SP-69 sets.
I actually emailed them on a quote for 100 sets submitted, waiting to hear.
yeah, they need to recover their investment after spending 1,000's on grading fees. can't hold all of them long term. they will make money on them towards end of the year
@bestday said:
Look at these ebay prices from 2 hours ago, today.. 10pc.. NGC 70s ANA Denver 1st day Show label.. $141
10pc..NGC 70s 1st releases.. $124
10pc..NGC 70s Early Release...$121
10pc .NGC 70s ANA Denver 1st Day.. $128
And, again, I'm not sure what that indicates other than you have to be an idiot to run these as auctions with the current uncertainty around the price. The cents alone are selling for $60 to $100. Clearly, the other coins are free.
Enhanced set....Raw Lincoln Cents going for $6 - 8.00 on ebay
I'm talking about the SP70 cents, since you're talking about the SP70 sets.
If you'd like to mix and match...can you believe 10 coin sets have gone up from $29.95 at the mint to $121 on eBay!!!
PCGS BULK SUBMISSION AGREEMENT
For PCGS Collectors Club Members
PCGS is now offering Bulk Submissions to active Collectors Club members. The PCGS Bulk Submission Program provides a low cost way to have larger quantities of inexpensive coins graded and encapsulated. If you meet the below requirements, you may submit your coins as a Bulk Submission at the current published bulk grading rate for Collector Club members.
Submission Requirements:
All coins must be properly submitted on PCGS submission forms. All submission forms must be signed.
Each submission must contain a minimum of one hundred (100) coins, with a maximum of five (5) different dates, mint marks, denominations or varieties - no more than five (5) different PCGS coin numbers per submission form.
Maximum declared coin value of $300/coin. (Please send American Gold Eagles, American Gold Buffaloes, and American Platinum Eagles through the appropriate Standard line service as these coins have a higher declared value.)
You may indicate one (1) minimum grade on your submission form. PCGS will holder any coins that meet or exceed the requested minimum grade. No minimum MS or PR 70 submissions will be accepted. If you will accept any grade, please indicate that on the submission form. If no minimum is requested, all coins will be graded.
Current Pricing: If 60% of the coins submitted meet or exceed the minimum grade, each holdered coin will be charged $12. The coins that do not meet your minimum grade will be returned to you unholdered with no charge. However, if less than 60% of the coins submitted meet or exceed the minimum grade, each holdered coin will be charged $12 while the unholdered coins will be charged $5 each.
All coins will be holdered with our standard blue inserts. First Strike inserts will be available upon request on coins that meet our requirements, cut-off dates etc. for an additional $18 per coin.
All coins must be submitted in tubes or original mint packaging. NO loose coins or mylar flips will be accepted.
Please be advised that terms and/or pricing may be changed by PCGS at any time with seven (7) days general notice on the PCGS website.
Adherence to the above-stated rules is extremely important in order for us to offer this service. Failure to comply with these rules invalidates your Bulk Submission and we will return your order to you ungraded. You agree to pay a handling fee of $75 (seventy-five dollars) plus return shipping fees per order for any order rejected for non-compliance with the submission rules. This will be billed directly to your credit card as provided on your submission form, unless you chose an alternate payment method. If an alternate method was selected, your order will be returned upon receipt of the $75 payment.
At PCGS' discretion you may be notified if your order does not comply with the submission standards and may be given the option to have your coins graded through the appropriate Standard line service. If you choose to have your coins graded under another service line, you agree to pay any additional grading fees based on the service selected.
This agreement applies to all Bulk Submissions submitted by the undersigned Collectors Club member and will expire in conjunction with Collectors Club membership unless terminated in writing by the Collectors Club member or PCGS. In addition to the items in the above agreement all terms and conditions of the PCGS submission form are also in full effect. A signed and dated copy of this agreement must be on file at PCGS before any Bulk Submission will be accepted.
I understand and agree to these terms.
Name
@coinpalice said:
I was 1 dollar off. 18 dollars for first strike label so 30 per coin when you submit 100 plus shipping. where did 7 dollars per coin come from?
Don't know about these, but dealers I know get $7 per coin rates on large submissions. Sometimes, as low as $5 when PCGS offers a deal. I would presume that they are getting similar rates on bulk submissions here.
Don't think for one minute that any of the big guys that are selling SP70 sets are losing money on them at current prices. They are selling NGC sets at $160-$200 and PCGS sets at $200-$240. I guarantee they are making money at that number because they don't make money on the SP69 sets. Those guys spend hundreds of thousands on bullion, they aren't going to panic and dump a few thousand in these sets just to be rid of them.
Wow....this thread reminds me of several other new releases over the years. Anyone remember FLBuffalohunter? Pump and dump never works here but they keep trying!
@Manorcourtman said:
Wow....this thread reminds me of several other new releases over the years. Anyone remember FLBuffalohunter? Pump and dump never works here but they keep trying!
I really don't see anyone pumping and dumping - maybe coinpalice. Just because some of us feel like this set will hold value in the long term is hardly a pump and dump.
@Manorcourtman said:
Wow....this thread reminds me of several other new releases over the years. Anyone remember FLBuffalohunter? Pump and dump never works here but they keep trying!
I really don't see anyone pumping and dumping - maybe coinpalice. Just because some of us feel like this set will hold value in the long term is hardly a pump and dump.
@GRANDAM said:
I don't think dealers sumitting in bulk pay $18 for 1st Strike Labels,,,,,,,,,,,
If I am wrong someone feel free to jump in and correct me.
I would guess more like $2 per,,,,,,,
Yes, I think that's right. Again, based on what the big boys are selling these sets for, I'm pretty sure it isn't more than $100 per set in slab fees including the special labels.
@Manorcourtman said:
Wow....this thread reminds me of several other new releases over the years. Anyone remember FLBuffalohunter? Pump and dump never works here but they keep trying!
I really don't see anyone pumping and dumping - maybe coinpalice. Just because some of us feel like this set will hold value in the long term is hardly a pump and dump.
Same story, different year.
I've never lost money on a mint product. Can you say the same?
Must be hard, always being so negative, yet always being so right....
Yes, I think that's right. Again, based on what the big boys are selling these sets for, I'm pretty sure it isn't more than $100 per set in slab fees including the special labels.
according to the bulk agreement it's 18 dollars for first strike labels if 100 or more are submitted. i'm sure you get a break in the price if you submit something like 500 or more at once, but your paying the 18 dollars per label at 100 coins plus the 12 dollar grading fee. i called the bulk department and they confirmed this
@Manorcourtman said:
Wow....this thread reminds me of several other new releases over the years. Anyone remember FLBuffalohunter? Pump and dump never works here but they keep trying!
I really don't see anyone pumping and dumping - maybe coinpalice. Just because some of us feel like this set will hold value in the long term is hardly a pump and dump.
Same story, different year.
I've never lost money on a mint product. Can you say the same?
Must be hard, always being so negative, yet always being so right....
Come back in a year and we'll compare notes.
I can't complain ..cleaning out today, some old boxes from a move 10 years ago, I found 2 sets of the 2006 Gold /Silver Anniv set buried under books at bottom of box ... maybe put the money in 70s sets ..LOl
I have seen your story play out several times ,, Does hope trump experience ?
@Manorcourtman said:
Wow....this thread reminds me of several other new releases over the years. Anyone remember FLBuffalohunter? Pump and dump never works here but they keep trying!
I really don't see anyone pumping and dumping - maybe coinpalice. Just because some of us feel like this set will hold value in the long term is hardly a pump and dump.
Same story, different year.
I've never lost money on a mint product. Can you say the same?
Must be hard, always being so negative, yet always being so right....
Come back in a year and we'll compare notes.
I can't complain ..cleaning out today, some old boxes from a move 10 years ago, I found 2 sets of the 2006 Gold /Silver Anniv set buried under books at bottom of box ... maybe put the money in 70s sets ..LOl
I have seen your story play out several times ,, Does hope trump experience ?
What is "my story"? I'm a part-time coin dealer. I do this to make money. There's no "hope" involved. I don't collect U.S. I don't fall in love with coins, except the occasional Tibetan piece. I buy and sell coins constantly, about $100k annually, to amuse myself and make money.
I rarely buy US Mint products from the MInt. I do deal in them on the secondary market when I come across them. This set is only the 4th US Mint product I've bought in the last 5 years. The other 3 were winners, even though they were probably long-term losers for the people I sold them to.
@MsMorrisine said:
annual sets lose money? up to -50% net margin overall?
2017 unc set $20.95
2017 proof set $26.95
2017 enh unc set $29.95
2017 silver proof set $47.95
I'd like to see it broken out by specific product. I'd imagine the mint sets might be okay. You've got to remember that the proof and EU sets require special tooling and handling.
It would be interesting to know the complete cost break down
No ...the despair part comes when seeing buyers of the 225th sets hoped what was to be a big payday flip.. turns out to much less..
225th set holders Hope turned into despair when reality ..i.e Ebay market reflected sets true value
No need to fret.. always another chance for a big flip down the road
Yes there is a shining star in the set.... you will need to figure it out
Jessewu has it right smaller posts ..easier on the eyes
No ...the despair part comes when seeing buyers of the 225th sets hoped what was to be a big payday flip.. turns out to much less..
225th set holders Hope turned into despair when reality ..i.e Ebay market reflected sets true value
No need to fret.. always another chance for a big flip down the road
Yes there is a shining star in the set.... you will need to figure it out
Jessewu has it right smaller posts ..easier on the eyes
Honestly, I don't despair at flippers getting it handed to them. It's the risk wildcatters take. They are big boys, they made their choices, they can take their lumps.
It's also the panicked flippers that have delayed the market setting a price on these things. There ended up being somewhere between 40,000 and 60,000 returned/cancelled orders. That is ONE-QUARTER OF THE TOTAL MINTAGE. It is that insanity that has caused all the turbulence in the market.
I'm willing to take bets on the price 2 years from now. I call $55. Any takers?
You're free to keep your posts short, I'm free to make mine longer if I wish. I generally learn more from longer posts. If a post, long or short, doesn't hold my interest I just skip down to the next one. (That was 205 characters.)
No ...the despair part comes when seeing buyers of the 225th sets hoped what was to be a big payday flip.. turns out to much less..
225th set holders Hope turned into despair when reality ..i.e Ebay market reflected sets true value
No need to fret.. always another chance for a big flip down the road
Yes there is a shining star in the set.... you will need to figure it out
Jessewu has it right smaller posts ..easier on the eyes
Honestly, I don't despair at flippers getting it handed to them. It's the risk wildcatters take. They are big boys, they made their choices, they can take their lumps.
It's also the panicked flippers that have delayed the market setting a price on these things. There ended up being somewhere between 40,000 and 60,000 returned/cancelled orders. That is ONE-QUARTER OF THE TOTAL MINTAGE. It is that insanity that has caused all the turbulence in the market.
I'm willing to take bets on the price 2 years from now. I call $55. Any takers?
Two years from now it will sell for less than $20. Maybe less than $15. The Lincoln is the only coin that will keep the set from totally tanking.
@Manorcourtman said:
Wow....this thread reminds me of several other new releases over the years. Anyone remember FLBuffalohunter? Pump and dump never works here but they keep trying!
I really don't see anyone pumping and dumping - maybe coinpalice. Just because some of us feel like this set will hold value in the long term is hardly a pump and dump.
Same story, different year.
I've never lost money on a mint product. Can you say the same?
Must be hard, always being so negative, yet always being so right....
Come back in a year and we'll compare notes.
I will be here in a couple of years! You will vanish like many others before you on these boards when their hopes and predictions go up in smoke! I've been buying and selling Mint products since 1995. I've lost money on Mint products and made big money on others as have most reading this. Us long time members have seen this play out over and over! Most of the junk the Mint puts out are money pits!
@coinpalice said:
according to the bulk agreement it's 18 dollars for first strike labels if 100 or more are submitted. i'm sure you get a break in the price if you submit something like 500 or more at once, but your paying the 18 dollars per label at 100 coins plus the 12 dollar grading fee. i called the bulk department and they confirmed this
You said you talked to them, but you posted this:
PCGS BULK SUBMISSION AGREEMENT
For PCGS Collectors Club Members
.
.
.
I did not see anything posted about dealer bulk rates (which is what others are referring to).
Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
@Manorcourtman said:
Wow....this thread reminds me of several other new releases over the years. Anyone remember FLBuffalohunter? Pump and dump never works here but they keep trying!
I really don't see anyone pumping and dumping - maybe coinpalice. Just because some of us feel like this set will hold value in the long term is hardly a pump and dump.
Same story, different year.
I've never lost money on a mint product. Can you say the same?
Must be hard, always being so negative, yet always being so right....
Come back in a year and we'll compare notes.
I will be here in a couple of years! You will vanish like many others before you on these boards when their hopes and predictions go up in smoke! I've been buying and selling Mint products since 1995. I've lost money on Mint products and made big money on others as have most reading this. Us long time members have seen this play out over and over! Most of the junk the Mint puts out are money pits!
Very True ;...Guess forum newbies need to pay up themselves ,and lose their money, before they see the light
@Manorcourtman said:
Wow....this thread reminds me of several other new releases over the years. Anyone remember FLBuffalohunter? Pump and dump never works here but they keep trying!
I really don't see anyone pumping and dumping - maybe coinpalice. Just because some of us feel like this set will hold value in the long term is hardly a pump and dump.
Same story, different year.
I've never lost money on a mint product. Can you say the same?
Must be hard, always being so negative, yet always being so right....
Come back in a year and we'll compare notes.
I will be here in a couple of years! You will vanish like many others before you on these boards when their hopes and predictions go up in smoke! I've been buying and selling Mint products since 1995. I've lost money on Mint products and made big money on others as have most reading this. Us long time members have seen this play out over and over! Most of the junk the Mint puts out are money pits!
I don't know who you think you're talking to. I've been buying and selling coins since the 1980s. So, you might want to get off your high horse.
@Manorcourtman said:
Wow....this thread reminds me of several other new releases over the years. Anyone remember FLBuffalohunter? Pump and dump never works here but they keep trying!
I really don't see anyone pumping and dumping - maybe coinpalice. Just because some of us feel like this set will hold value in the long term is hardly a pump and dump.
Same story, different year.
I've never lost money on a mint product. Can you say the same?
Must be hard, always being so negative, yet always being so right....
Come back in a year and we'll compare notes.
I will be here in a couple of years! You will vanish like many others before you on these boards when their hopes and predictions go up in smoke! I've been buying and selling Mint products since 1995. I've lost money on Mint products and made big money on others as have most reading this. Us long time members have seen this play out over and over! Most of the junk the Mint puts out are money pits!
Very True ;...Guess forum newbies need to pay up themselves ,and lose their money, before they see the light
Forum newbies come in many forms. Just because I just registered under this name does not make me new to coins or the coin business. I've been buying and selling coins for over 30 years.
I don't know whether you "long time members" have bought or sold more than the $3 million in coins that I have. I'm not arrogant enough to assume either that A) I know you or I have to be correct. But I have my reasons (oft stated) for my assessment of value in this set and only this set and your counter arguments are essentially that Mint products suck in the long run. Which is mostly true but not always true.
No ...the despair part comes when seeing buyers of the 225th sets hoped what was to be a big payday flip.. turns out to much less..
225th set holders Hope turned into despair when reality ..i.e Ebay market reflected sets true value
No need to fret.. always another chance for a big flip down the road
Yes there is a shining star in the set.... you will need to figure it out
Jessewu has it right smaller posts ..easier on the eyes
Honestly, I don't despair at flippers getting it handed to them. It's the risk wildcatters take. They are big boys, they made their choices, they can take their lumps.
It's also the panicked flippers that have delayed the market setting a price on these things. There ended up being somewhere between 40,000 and 60,000 returned/cancelled orders. That is ONE-QUARTER OF THE TOTAL MINTAGE. It is that insanity that has caused all the turbulence in the market.
I'm willing to take bets on the price 2 years from now. I call $55. Any takers?
Two years from now it will sell for less than $20. Maybe less than $15. The Lincoln is the only coin that will keep the set from totally tanking.
@coinpalice said:
according to the bulk agreement it's 18 dollars for first strike labels if 100 or more are submitted. i'm sure you get a break in the price if you submit something like 500 or more at once, but your paying the 18 dollars per label at 100 coins plus the 12 dollar grading fee. i called the bulk department and they confirmed this
You said you talked to them, but you posted this:
PCGS BULK SUBMISSION AGREEMENT
For PCGS Collectors Club Members
.
.
.
I did not see anything posted about dealer bulk rates (which is what others are referring to).
They don't post the dealer bulk rates. They don't like to advertise them for some reason.
The problem with making any predictions is nobody knows what new products the mint is going to release next year or in the following years. Those that have been here and debated these sets knows it is foolish to assume anything with the mint.
I would not want to sit on a ton of these sets on the hope that things will rise within two years. Not when there will be better opportunities with other products that can be flipped quickly. Thousands of these sets were returned because 225,000 is too many sets for the market right now. It's too many coins in the set and too much bother to spend on individual coins.
@HalfStrike said:
The problem with making any predictions is nobody knows what new products the mint is going to release next year or in the following years. Those that have been here and debated these sets knows it is foolish to assume anything with the mint.
I would not want to sit on a ton of these sets on the hope that things will rise within two years. Not when there will be better opportunities with other products that can be flipped quickly. Thousands of these sets were returned because 225,000 is too many sets for the market right now. It's too many coins in the set and too much bother to spend on individual coins.
Fair points. But that applies to both the "positive" and "negative" predictions. In the end, we decide how we spend our money.
I'm not sure 225,000 is too many for the market (look at proof and mint set sales). I do think a general panic hit the market when the returns started.
Here's another question I've been pondering: Do you think it would help or hurt this set's price if they started making EU sets an annual occurrence?
One one hand, it would be less special.
On the other hand, it would be a limited edition set of a regular series. And wouldn't many of the collectors that are trying really, really hard to not buy one and put it in their album feel like they had to if there were one every year?
@jmlanzaf said: Here's another question I've been pondering: Do you think it would help or hurt this set's price if they started making EU sets an annual occurrence?
Hurt.
On one hand, it would be less special.
Correct.
On the other hand, it would be a limited edition set of a regular series. And wouldn't many of the collectors that are trying really, really hard to not buy one and put it in their album feel like they had to if there were one every year?
No. The sets would exist in a "no man's land", like the "W" burnished gold, silver and platinum eagles. Lower mintage than the proofs, but much less demand with resulting anemic prices in the aftermarket.
Comments
And, again, I'm not sure what that indicates other than you have to be an idiot to run these as auctions with the current uncertainty around the price. The cents alone are selling for $60 to $100. Clearly, the other coins are free.
Use 225th Enhanced set
Enhanced set....Raw Lincoln Cents going for $6 - 8.00 on ebay
I actually emailed them on a quote for 100 sets submitted, waiting to hear.
yeah, they need to recover their investment after spending 1,000's on grading fees. can't hold all of them long term. they will make money on them towards end of the year
I'm talking about the SP70 cents, since you're talking about the SP70 sets.
If you'd like to mix and match...can you believe 10 coin sets have gone up from $29.95 at the mint to $121 on eBay!!!
I see the real value of this as a long-term hold in OGP.
I totally agree, sets are broken up for grading, attrition rate?
I've always been in the OGP camp where I will remain.
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
I scooped up several. As the lowest mintage Lincoln cent, I can't see it staying at that price for very long.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
PCGS BULK SUBMISSION AGREEMENT
For PCGS Collectors Club Members
PCGS is now offering Bulk Submissions to active Collectors Club members. The PCGS Bulk Submission Program provides a low cost way to have larger quantities of inexpensive coins graded and encapsulated. If you meet the below requirements, you may submit your coins as a Bulk Submission at the current published bulk grading rate for Collector Club members.
Submission Requirements:
All coins must be properly submitted on PCGS submission forms. All submission forms must be signed.
Each submission must contain a minimum of one hundred (100) coins, with a maximum of five (5) different dates, mint marks, denominations or varieties - no more than five (5) different PCGS coin numbers per submission form.
Maximum declared coin value of $300/coin. (Please send American Gold Eagles, American Gold Buffaloes, and American Platinum Eagles through the appropriate Standard line service as these coins have a higher declared value.)
You may indicate one (1) minimum grade on your submission form. PCGS will holder any coins that meet or exceed the requested minimum grade. No minimum MS or PR 70 submissions will be accepted. If you will accept any grade, please indicate that on the submission form. If no minimum is requested, all coins will be graded.
Current Pricing: If 60% of the coins submitted meet or exceed the minimum grade, each holdered coin will be charged $12. The coins that do not meet your minimum grade will be returned to you unholdered with no charge. However, if less than 60% of the coins submitted meet or exceed the minimum grade, each holdered coin will be charged $12 while the unholdered coins will be charged $5 each.
All coins will be holdered with our standard blue inserts. First Strike inserts will be available upon request on coins that meet our requirements, cut-off dates etc. for an additional $18 per coin.
All coins must be submitted in tubes or original mint packaging. NO loose coins or mylar flips will be accepted.
Please be advised that terms and/or pricing may be changed by PCGS at any time with seven (7) days general notice on the PCGS website.
Adherence to the above-stated rules is extremely important in order for us to offer this service. Failure to comply with these rules invalidates your Bulk Submission and we will return your order to you ungraded. You agree to pay a handling fee of $75 (seventy-five dollars) plus return shipping fees per order for any order rejected for non-compliance with the submission rules. This will be billed directly to your credit card as provided on your submission form, unless you chose an alternate payment method. If an alternate method was selected, your order will be returned upon receipt of the $75 payment.
At PCGS' discretion you may be notified if your order does not comply with the submission standards and may be given the option to have your coins graded through the appropriate Standard line service. If you choose to have your coins graded under another service line, you agree to pay any additional grading fees based on the service selected.
This agreement applies to all Bulk Submissions submitted by the undersigned Collectors Club member and will expire in conjunction with Collectors Club membership unless terminated in writing by the Collectors Club member or PCGS. In addition to the items in the above agreement all terms and conditions of the PCGS submission form are also in full effect. A signed and dated copy of this agreement must be on file at PCGS before any Bulk Submission will be accepted.
I understand and agree to these terms.
Name
CC Member #
Signature
Date
plus first strike label
I was 1 dollar off. 18 dollars for first strike label so 30 per coin when you submit 100 plus shipping. where did 7 dollars per coin come from?
we are passed the cut-off date so the only way to get first strike labels now is from sealed boxes from pcgs anyway
Don't know about these, but dealers I know get $7 per coin rates on large submissions. Sometimes, as low as $5 when PCGS offers a deal. I would presume that they are getting similar rates on bulk submissions here.
Don't think for one minute that any of the big guys that are selling SP70 sets are losing money on them at current prices. They are selling NGC sets at $160-$200 and PCGS sets at $200-$240. I guarantee they are making money at that number because they don't make money on the SP69 sets. Those guys spend hundreds of thousands on bullion, they aren't going to panic and dump a few thousand in these sets just to be rid of them.
I agree. Raw for $8 is a good deal. I just bought quite a few. Now, the question is how will they grade.
D2
Don't quote me on that.
Wow....this thread reminds me of several other new releases over the years. Anyone remember FLBuffalohunter? Pump and dump never works here but they keep trying!
I really don't see anyone pumping and dumping - maybe coinpalice. Just because some of us feel like this set will hold value in the long term is hardly a pump and dump.
5 dollars is about what it cost to seal them in the plastic slab, coin graders get about the same pay as doctors do once you get your 10 years in
i'm sure you can get 5 dollar bulk grading through icg or anacs
Same story, different year.
i'm not dumping my sets. I sold a few but made good money on them
I don't think dealers sumitting in bulk pay $18 for 1st Strike Labels,,,,,,,,,,,
If I am wrong someone feel free to jump in and correct me.
I would guess more like $2 per,,,,,,,
Yes, I think that's right. Again, based on what the big boys are selling these sets for, I'm pretty sure it isn't more than $100 per set in slab fees including the special labels.
I've never lost money on a mint product. Can you say the same?
Must be hard, always being so negative, yet always being so right....
Come back in a year and we'll compare notes.
So, I need a friend thats a bulk dealer.....
Don't quote me on that.
according to the bulk agreement it's 18 dollars for first strike labels if 100 or more are submitted. i'm sure you get a break in the price if you submit something like 500 or more at once, but your paying the 18 dollars per label at 100 coins plus the 12 dollar grading fee. i called the bulk department and they confirmed this
An ebay seller even sold a 50 lot of raw Lincoln cents from the set
I can't complain ..cleaning out today, some old boxes from a move 10 years ago, I found 2 sets of the 2006 Gold /Silver Anniv set buried under books at bottom of box ... maybe put the money in 70s sets ..LOl
I have seen your story play out several times ,, Does hope trump experience ?
annual sets lose money? up to -50% net margin overall?
2017 unc set $20.95
2017 proof set $26.95
2017 enh unc set $29.95
2017 silver proof set $47.95
What is "my story"? I'm a part-time coin dealer. I do this to make money. There's no "hope" involved. I don't collect U.S. I don't fall in love with coins, except the occasional Tibetan piece. I buy and sell coins constantly, about $100k annually, to amuse myself and make money.
I rarely buy US Mint products from the MInt. I do deal in them on the secondary market when I come across them. This set is only the 4th US Mint product I've bought in the last 5 years. The other 3 were winners, even though they were probably long-term losers for the people I sold them to.
Does MY experience trump your despair?
140 characters folks.
And violate the twitter copyright?
I'd like to see it broken out by specific product. I'd imagine the mint sets might be okay. You've got to remember that the proof and EU sets require special tooling and handling.
It would be interesting to know the complete cost break down
No ...the despair part comes when seeing buyers of the 225th sets hoped what was to be a big payday flip.. turns out to much less..
225th set holders Hope turned into despair when reality ..i.e Ebay market reflected sets true value
No need to fret.. always another chance for a big flip down the road
Yes there is a shining star in the set.... you will need to figure it out
Jessewu has it right smaller posts ..easier on the eyes
Honestly, I don't despair at flippers getting it handed to them. It's the risk wildcatters take. They are big boys, they made their choices, they can take their lumps.
It's also the panicked flippers that have delayed the market setting a price on these things. There ended up being somewhere between 40,000 and 60,000 returned/cancelled orders. That is ONE-QUARTER OF THE TOTAL MINTAGE. It is that insanity that has caused all the turbulence in the market.
I'm willing to take bets on the price 2 years from now. I call $55. Any takers?
You're free to keep your posts short, I'm free to make mine longer if I wish. I generally learn more from longer posts. If a post, long or short, doesn't hold my interest I just skip down to the next one. (That was 205 characters.)
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Two years from now it will sell for less than $20. Maybe less than $15. The Lincoln is the only coin that will keep the set from totally tanking.
I will be here in a couple of years! You will vanish like many others before you on these boards when their hopes and predictions go up in smoke! I've been buying and selling Mint products since 1995. I've lost money on Mint products and made big money on others as have most reading this. Us long time members have seen this play out over and over! Most of the junk the Mint puts out are money pits!
You said you talked to them, but you posted this:
PCGS BULK SUBMISSION AGREEMENT
For PCGS Collectors Club Members
.
.
.
I did not see anything posted about dealer bulk rates (which is what others are referring to).
Very True ;...Guess forum newbies need to pay up themselves ,and lose their money, before they see the light
I don't know who you think you're talking to. I've been buying and selling coins since the 1980s. So, you might want to get off your high horse.
Forum newbies come in many forms. Just because I just registered under this name does not make me new to coins or the coin business. I've been buying and selling coins for over 30 years.
I don't know whether you "long time members" have bought or sold more than the $3 million in coins that I have. I'm not arrogant enough to assume either that A) I know you or
I have to be correct. But I have my reasons (oft stated) for my assessment of value in this set and only this set and your counter arguments are essentially that Mint products suck in the long run. Which is mostly true but not always true.
I'm willing to bet. Are you?
They don't post the dealer bulk rates. They don't like to advertise them for some reason.
Is this topic on the 225th set or can jmlanzaf go 225 minutes without a post?
The problem with making any predictions is nobody knows what new products the mint is going to release next year or in the following years. Those that have been here and debated these sets knows it is foolish to assume anything with the mint.
I would not want to sit on a ton of these sets on the hope that things will rise within two years. Not when there will be better opportunities with other products that can be flipped quickly. Thousands of these sets were returned because 225,000 is too many sets for the market right now. It's too many coins in the set and too much bother to spend on individual coins.
Hmmm....if you call me out, I feel I must come.
I would love to keep talking about the set, but some people want to just keep calling me an idiot.
Fair points. But that applies to both the "positive" and "negative" predictions. In the end, we decide how we spend our money.
I'm not sure 225,000 is too many for the market (look at proof and mint set sales). I do think a general panic hit the market when the returns started.
Here's another question I've been pondering: Do you think it would help or hurt this set's price if they started making EU sets an annual occurrence?
One one hand, it would be less special.
On the other hand, it would be a limited edition set of a regular series. And wouldn't many of the collectors that are trying really, really hard to not buy one and put it in their album feel like they had to if there were one every year?
Hurt.
Correct.
No. The sets would exist in a "no man's land", like the "W" burnished gold, silver and platinum eagles. Lower mintage than the proofs, but much less demand with resulting anemic prices in the aftermarket.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Just bought a 70 NGC set Enhanced 2017-S for $113.00- lowest I have seen. Going to hit $100 or lower soon?
the $113.00 was early releases- bought 2 of the Denver ANA NGC SP70 sets for $121 and $122