@coinpalice said:
I could see this set at 50 dollars in 3 months. by then most of the dealer bulk will be sold and people will be looking for holiday gifts
Sounds like wishful thinking ..holding too many 225th sets .? .Too many sets issued to buyers ,unless some error coins appear from set.. .. mint set doomed
More likely $50 in a year or two. Price appreciation is unlikely to be rapid.
@coinpalice said:
I could see this set at 50 dollars in 3 months. by then most of the dealer bulk will be sold and people will be looking for holiday gifts
Sounds like wishful thinking ..holding too many 225th sets .? .Too many sets issued to buyers ,unless some error coins appear from set.. .. mint set doomed
More likely $50 in a year or two. Price appreciation is unlikely to be rapid.
I plan on melting down all my sets but one to decrease overall mintage. I highly encourage everyone else to do the same. I think if we work as a team we can get this down to 1,000 known examples....easy.
@grote15 said:
Another modern mint product that will be worth less than issue price a year or two from now..
This may be true,
It's for my collection.
Worth less now.... dealer buy price in under 25.00
LOL, you need to wait until the set is off-sale.
On day 1, when it was thought the issue sold-out, the price was up.
It went back on sale, the price went down.
It went off-sale the second time, the price went up.
Then it went back on sale again, the price went down.
The law of supply and demand at work. Wait for the supply to be exhausted by the mint... Again...
@coinpalice said:
I could see this set at 50 dollars in 3 months. by then most of the dealer bulk will be sold and people will be looking for holiday gifts
Sounds like wishful thinking ..holding too many 225th sets .? .Too many sets issued to buyers ,unless some error coins appear from set.. .. mint set doomed
More likely $50 in a year or two. Price appreciation is unlikely to be rapid.
I plan on melting down all my sets but one to decrease overall mintage. I highly encourage everyone else to do the same. I think if we work as a team we can get this down to 1,000 known examples....easy.
I plan on melting down all my sets but one to decrease overall mintage. I highly encourage everyone else to do the same. I think if we work as a team we can get this down to 1,000 known examples....easy.
d2
Pictures or it didn't happen!
I am just waiting on at least 10 more folks to agree....you know the folks at HSN, APMEX, etc...
I plan on melting down all my sets but one to decrease overall mintage. I highly encourage everyone else to do the same. I think if we work as a team we can get this down to 1,000 known examples....easy.
d2
Pictures or it didn't happen!
I am just waiting on at least 10 more folks to agree....you know the folks at HSN, APMEX, etc...
I've always thought we should do this with late date silver proofs. The premium is so low, when silver goes up you might as well scrap them. If we melt enough of them, the remainders might have some value and be worth putting into inventory.
Any dealers out there sorry they didn't scrap every proof half dollar they had from 1958-1964 when silver was at $40 per ounce? You could easily get 30x face ($15 for a half). Try to get anywhere near that now for an average proof.
Seems that the returns have finally cycled through. Should be sold out - finally - early next week at this rate. By October or November, we should have some idea of the longer term value of these things.
@grote15 said:
Another modern mint product that will be worth less than issue price a year or two from now..
This may be true,
It's for my collection.
Worth less now.... dealer buy price in under 25.00
LOL, you need to wait until the set is off-sale.
On day 1, when it was thought the issue sold-out, the price was up.
It went back on sale, the price went down.
It went off-sale the second time, the price went up.
Then it went back on sale again, the price went down.
The law of supply and demand at work. Wait for the supply to be exhausted by the mint... Again...
The law says down ...right now ....big area coin buyer has some collectors visiting shop wanting to sell ..until they hear his buying price.,,,,,then they walkout
For info ..the under $25 price was a deal by dealer, buying 4 sets at 23.50@... He said if they don't sell in his shop, he will put them on ebay
If looking to buy 225th sets ...call around and ask dealers are they paying, before you put your money in to buy...
The dollar amount for 225th sets no big deal .. just no home run flip this time
@epcjimi1 said:
Look. here;s the deal. It;s a clad set that has not sold out yet. Predicting / speculating $50 / set in two years is "optimistic".
Predicting a 66% increase, from $29.95 to $50 in two years does not make sense.
Besides the 98 halves, you've got the 96 Mint sets with 1.4 million (no sales limit) and the 1970 mint set with 2.05 million (no sales limit). There are probably others: 1997 Jackie Robinson (authorized 200,000 and never sold out), 2012 proof set (794,000 sold).
It's just a projection, and you can call it optimistic, but I don't think people grasp how low 225,000 is for this set. Even if you just compare it to a regular old proof set, it is less than half the number of 2016 sets sold and 2/3 of the 2017 sets sold to date.
You can call it optimistic, but I would label any suggestion that this set is going to be dropping from the issue price as pessimistic.
Huh, I see lots of MS and PF 1998 Kennedy's on the sold auctions page.
Sure, if you use MS and PF 1998 Kennedy as the search terms, i guess.
Even so, using those terms,a bunch of the sold items are Robert F Kennedy, and the dates between sale of all items, is one a week, at best, to argue that this is a killer flip, well, i don't think so.
Huh, I see lots of MS and PF 1998 Kennedy's on the sold auctions page.
Sure, if you use MS and PF 1998 Kennedy as the search terms, i guess.
Even so, using those terms,a bunch of the sold items are Robert F Kennedy, and the dates between sale of all items, is one a week, at best, to argue that this is a killer flip, well, i don't think so.
Within the last week, here are the sales:
$154.72
$124.95
$159.95
$86.76
$132.53
$320
$155
Pretty darn good. And only 42 are currently listed, so the reason there aren't a ton of sales is because most people are now currently HOLDING them.
where is the kool - aid ?
seems some posters here going to great lengths to convince themselves, this set will not be another Mint item dog
My friend there is too many Mint products floating around for continued higher prices in after market
These are not 2006 anniv sets nor 2008 with the error ASE or 2011 anniv sets
The Mint wised up ..priced their items higher to keep some the money flippers might have made on Mint products
Whether this set turns out to be financial dog or not doesn't effect how I like the look of the enhancement the mint produced this time. "I'm Loving It ™". Price appreciation is not the biggest factor for my collection. What I like is.
@Kudbegud said:
Whether this set turns out to be financial dog or not doesn't effect how I like the look of the enhancement the mint produced this time. "I'm Loving It ™". Price appreciation is not the biggest factor for my collection. What I like is.
+1
~HABE FIDUCIAM IN DOMINO III V VI / III XVI~ POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
@Kudbegud said:
Whether this set turns out to be financial dog or not doesn't effect how I like the look of the enhancement the mint produced this time. "I'm Loving It ™". Price appreciation is not the biggest factor for my collection. What I like is.
Huh, I see lots of MS and PF 1998 Kennedy's on the sold auctions page.
Sure, if you use MS and PF 1998 Kennedy as the search terms, i guess.
Even so, using those terms,a bunch of the sold items are Robert F Kennedy, and the dates between sale of all items, is one a week, at best, to argue that this is a killer flip, well, i don't think so.
You undermine any credibility by arguing that the Kennedy's DIDN'T triple in value. You would be better served by arguing that THIS IS NO KENNEDY, rather than trying to argue that the 98 Kennedy isn't a $180 set (20 years later) with a $60 issue price.
@Kudbegud said:
Whether this set turns out to be financial dog or not doesn't effect how I like the look of the enhancement the mint produced this time. "I'm Loving It ™". Price appreciation is not the biggest factor for my collection. What I like is.
I generally agree. But the fact that the coin IS good looking is one of the reasons I expect it to stay popular. JMO I put 100 sets away for next year. Time will tell.
@epcjimi1 said:
Look. here;s the deal. It;s a clad set that has not sold out yet. Predicting / speculating $50 / set in two years is "optimistic".
Predicting a 66% increase, from $29.95 to $50 in two years does not make sense.
Look at the 98 halves. They technically NEVER sold out, they just stopped selling them.
The US mint sold the 1998 matte halves for only seven weeks. They advertised the mintage would be what ever it is in 7 week selling period.
During the 7 week selling period Warren Buffet bought a huge position in silver bullion. The 1998 Matte half mintage would have been higher, but Mr. buffet took all the numismatic lime light.
@epcjimi1 said:
Look. here;s the deal. It;s a clad set that has not sold out yet. Predicting / speculating $50 / set in two years is "optimistic".
Predicting a 66% increase, from $29.95 to $50 in two years does not make sense.
Look at the 98 halves. They technically NEVER sold out, they just stopped selling them.
The US mint sold the 1998 matte halves for only seven weeks. They advertised the mintage would be what ever it is in 7 week selling period.
During the 7 week selling period Warren Buffet bought a huge position in silver bullion. The 1998 Matte half mintage would have been higher, but Mr. buffet took all the numismatic lime light.
Yes, I know that. But what it shows is that the simple fact that a coin sells for several weeks doesn't mean it won't appreciate after the fact. People who originally did not seek to add the Kennedy to their collection did later. I suspect the same will happen here with the Kennedy and the cent, at the very least.
A new article in coinworld changed the wording a bit about returns.
In fact a number of sizeable orders, including one for 20,000 sets, were canceled either by the buyers, or by the Mint, for a variety of reasons, including problems with credit cards used for payment.
It would be good to know if the original customer cancelled their order, or the mint limited the number of sets a customer was allowed to buy. Maybe we'll find out in time...
most people were counting on a quick sellout on these sets, when that didn't happen the returns come pouring in>
If I remember it WAS sold out in less than 5 minutes.....when THAT happened the returns came pouring in
NOTHING is listed as "Sold Out" anymore until ALL orders have been shipped and returns received, This takes at least a couple of weeks after they become "Currently Unavailable"
Read the thread... the story is that an order for 10K was cancelled due to payment problems. That caused the set to be available again on the 3rd. That appears to have started the avalanche of returns.
@nurmaler has been posting the availability from the mint site. Each day there seems to be new stock... during the day there are sales, lather, rinse, repeat.
The question is how many days behind is the mint, i.e. how many more days of returns are there yet to come.
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
@BStrauss3 said:
Read the thread... the story is that an order for 10K was cancelled due to payment problems. That caused the set to be available again on the 3rd. That appears to have started the avalanche of returns.
No, the actual article stated:
However, when Coin World senior editor Paul Gilkes, in attendance at the American Numismatic Association World’s Fair of Money in Denver, spoke to Mint staff there, he was told that order cancellations made the sets available again, with one order by a dealer for 20,000 sets among those that were canceled.
It was 20K sets, and the order was cancelled by a dealer, but not due to payment problems.
If it was cancelled by the mint, it would be good to know...
@bestday said:
Missing from this thread are the some of the flippers on this forum .. have they bailed or no longer flippers
Is the 225th set the most ever returned product back to the Mint ?
Saw some sellers on BST trying to break even......My friend lowered his buy price by 2 bucks, in case he gets any more offers to buy
No way to know. As a percentage of mintage, I'm sure it's up there. In absolute numbers, I doubt it.
Current buy/sell prices on the secondary market are meaningless. The current retail price is $29.95 and will stay $29.95 until the mint sells out. Sales above or below that price are just market noise.
Frankly, the current "buy" price is obviously lower than $29.95 because any retailer who wants more can buy them from the mint and doesn't need to wait for a private citizen to come in. But that price is meaningless as well as it is solely dictated by issue price. 3 months from now, when the mint is out, actual supply and demand in the market place will establish price.
exactly, also most people on this board still have the 7 day window open to return coins if they wish to. why would you return with a sell out days away?
@bestday said:
Missing from this thread are the some of the flippers on this forum .. have they bailed or no longer flippers
Is the 225th set the most ever returned product back to the Mint ?
Saw some sellers on BST trying to break even......My friend lowered his buy price by 2 bucks, in case he gets any more offers to buy
I am a flipper. I bought a box of 10, box of 20, and box of 25. I've now sold them all, and overall, made money. Not as much as I would have liked, but hey, you don't hit a home run every time.
most people were counting on a quick sellout on these sets, when that didn't happen the returns come pouring in>
If I remember it WAS sold out in less than 5 minutes.....when THAT happened the returns came pouring in
NOTHING is listed as "Sold Out" anymore until ALL orders have been shipped and returns received, This takes at least a couple of weeks after they become "Currently Unavailable"
I'm not sure the Mint has ever confirmed that it was completely sold out. They just said they suspended sales.
Comments
More likely $50 in a year or two. Price appreciation is unlikely to be rapid.
I plan on melting down all my sets but one to decrease overall mintage. I highly encourage everyone else to do the same. I think if we work as a team we can get this down to 1,000 known examples....easy.
d2
Don't quote me on that.
LOL, you need to wait until the set is off-sale.
On day 1, when it was thought the issue sold-out, the price was up.
It went back on sale, the price went down.
It went off-sale the second time, the price went up.
Then it went back on sale again, the price went down.
The law of supply and demand at work. Wait for the supply to be exhausted by the mint... Again...
Pictures or it didn't happen!
I am just waiting on at least 10 more folks to agree....you know the folks at HSN, APMEX, etc...
Don't quote me on that.
I've always thought we should do this with late date silver proofs. The premium is so low, when silver goes up you might as well scrap them. If we melt enough of them, the remainders might have some value and be worth putting into inventory.
Any dealers out there sorry they didn't scrap every proof half dollar they had from 1958-1964 when silver was at $40 per ounce? You could easily get 30x face ($15 for a half). Try to get anywhere near that now for an average proof.
Seems that the returns have finally cycled through. Should be sold out - finally - early next week at this rate. By October or November, we should have some idea of the longer term value of these things.
The law says down ...right now ....big area coin buyer has some collectors visiting shop wanting to sell ..until they hear his buying price.,,,,,then they walkout
For info ..the under $25 price was a deal by dealer, buying 4 sets at 23.50@... He said if they don't sell in his shop, he will put them on ebay
If looking to buy 225th sets ...call around and ask dealers are they paying, before you put your money in to buy...
The dollar amount for 225th sets no big deal .. just no home run flip this time
Look. here;s the deal. It;s a clad set that has not sold out yet. Predicting / speculating $50 / set in two years is "optimistic".
Predicting a 66% increase, from $29.95 to $50 in two years does not make sense.
Look at the 98 halves. They technically NEVER sold out, they just stopped selling them.
Besides the 98 halves, you've got the 96 Mint sets with 1.4 million (no sales limit) and the 1970 mint set with 2.05 million (no sales limit). There are probably others: 1997 Jackie Robinson (authorized 200,000 and never sold out), 2012 proof set (794,000 sold).
It's just a projection, and you can call it optimistic, but I don't think people grasp how low 225,000 is for this set. Even if you just compare it to a regular old proof set, it is less than half the number of 2016 sets sold and 2/3 of the 2017 sets sold to date.
You can call it optimistic, but I would label any suggestion that this set is going to be dropping from the issue price as pessimistic.
OK, fine. Just looked at a couple ebay completed sale pages of "1998 kennedy", nothing sold.
BUY, BUY, BUY
You must not have seen the 3/4 oz gold Kennedy debacle.
Huh, I see lots of MS and PF 1998 Kennedy's on the sold auctions page.
Plus 5000 on eBay! Thanks for the update.
Sure, if you use MS and PF 1998 Kennedy as the search terms, i guess.
Even so, using those terms,a bunch of the sold items are Robert F Kennedy, and the dates between sale of all items, is one a week, at best, to argue that this is a killer flip, well, i don't think so.
Within the last week, here are the sales:
$154.72
$124.95
$159.95
$86.76
$132.53
$320
$155
Pretty darn good. And only 42 are currently listed, so the reason there aren't a ton of sales is because most people are now currently HOLDING them.
where is the kool - aid ?
seems some posters here going to great lengths to convince themselves, this set will not be another Mint item dog
My friend there is too many Mint products floating around for continued higher prices in after market
These are not 2006 anniv sets nor 2008 with the error ASE or 2011 anniv sets
The Mint wised up ..priced their items higher to keep some the money flippers might have made on Mint products
Whether this set turns out to be financial dog or not doesn't effect how I like the look of the enhancement the mint produced this time. "I'm Loving It ™". Price appreciation is not the biggest factor for my collection. What I like is.
+1
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
+2.
just think, without the 27,000 plus returns we still be at a 5 minute sellout. the difference would be 10,000 sets on e bay compared to 5,000 now
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2017-S-225th-Anniversary-Enhanced-Uncirculated-Coin-Set-17XC-/322644928000?epid=2154356577&hash=item4b1f22e600:g:qy0AAOSwKGhZi6o9
someone just raised the price to 40 per set, let's see if the market can handle 40 dollars
Just delivered - SP70 10 coin set. Excellent !
So I now have a raw set and a PCGS SP70 set. Grinning big time.
You undermine any credibility by arguing that the Kennedy's DIDN'T triple in value. You would be better served by arguing that THIS IS NO KENNEDY, rather than trying to argue that the 98 Kennedy isn't a $180 set (20 years later) with a $60 issue price.
I generally agree. But the fact that the coin IS good looking is one of the reasons I expect it to stay popular. JMO I put 100 sets away for next year. Time will tell.
And, for what it's worth, the CURRENT break up value of the sets is somewhere between $50 and $60.
The US mint sold the 1998 matte halves for only seven weeks. They advertised the mintage would be what ever it is in 7 week selling period.
During the 7 week selling period Warren Buffet bought a huge position in silver bullion. The 1998 Matte half mintage would have been higher, but Mr. buffet took all the numismatic lime light.
Yes, I know that. But what it shows is that the simple fact that a coin sells for several weeks doesn't mean it won't appreciate after the fact. People who originally did not seek to add the Kennedy to their collection did later. I suspect the same will happen here with the Kennedy and the cent, at the very least.
most people were counting on a quick sellout on these sets, when that didn't happen the returns come pouring in
a bunch of people just got cold feet. no guts no glory
After reading thread ,safe to say many sets are in weak hands .. if /once prices decline ..lookout more selling
yes, the mint has more losers then winners, but the enhanced set has winner wrote all over it
how many mint products with a 225,000 population sell out in 3 weeks? not many
At the core of this argument.....essentially the points being argued:
Are you a collector?
Are you a dealer?
Are you a short term investor (A.K.A. "flipper")?
Are you a long term investor?
The waters are murky.....as some collectors buy more than what is needed for their collection.
A new article in coinworld changed the wording a bit about returns.
It would be good to know if the original customer cancelled their order, or the mint limited the number of sets a customer was allowed to buy. Maybe we'll find out in time...
Proof Silver Eagles regularly sell more than 225K in the first week. Other than that...
The 2012 SF ASE set sold 250K in four weeks.
The 2013 WP ASE set sold 280K in four weeks, so may have gotten to 225K in three weeks.
The 2014 BBHoF Silver Proof that sold 260K in the first three weeks.
If I remember it WAS sold out in less than 5 minutes.....when THAT happened the returns came pouring in
NOTHING is listed as "Sold Out" anymore until ALL orders have been shipped and returns received, This takes at least a couple of weeks after they become "Currently Unavailable"
Read the thread... the story is that an order for 10K was cancelled due to payment problems. That caused the set to be available again on the 3rd. That appears to have started the avalanche of returns.
@nurmaler has been posting the availability from the mint site. Each day there seems to be new stock... during the day there are sales, lather, rinse, repeat.
The question is how many days behind is the mint, i.e. how many more days of returns are there yet to come.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
No, the actual article stated:
It was 20K sets, and the order was cancelled by a dealer, but not due to payment problems.
If it was cancelled by the mint, it would be good to know...
Missing from this thread are the some of the flippers on this forum .. have they bailed or no longer flippers
Is the 225th set the most ever returned product back to the Mint ?
Saw some sellers on BST trying to break even......My friend lowered his buy price by 2 bucks, in case he gets any more offers to buy
people who can't afford to hold coins should not buy them
No way to know. As a percentage of mintage, I'm sure it's up there. In absolute numbers, I doubt it.
Current buy/sell prices on the secondary market are meaningless. The current retail price is $29.95 and will stay $29.95 until the mint sells out. Sales above or below that price are just market noise.
Frankly, the current "buy" price is obviously lower than $29.95 because any retailer who wants more can buy them from the mint and doesn't need to wait for a private citizen to come in. But that price is meaningless as well as it is solely dictated by issue price. 3 months from now, when the mint is out, actual supply and demand in the market place will establish price.
exactly, also most people on this board still have the 7 day window open to return coins if they wish to. why would you return with a sell out days away?
It's hit and miss, as in the 2017 congratulations set.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
I am a flipper. I bought a box of 10, box of 20, and box of 25. I've now sold them all, and overall, made money. Not as much as I would have liked, but hey, you don't hit a home run every time.
I'm not sure the Mint has ever confirmed that it was completely sold out. They just said they suspended sales.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sale-Price-2017-S-US-Mint-225th-Anniversary-Enhanced-Uncirculated-10-Coin-Set-/152646544845?epid=2154478261&hash=item238a716dcd:g:9dgAAOSwvv9ZgyWE
this guy either has paid help or is just retired and bored