@TNP777 said:
Steve, I likewise am astonished how some here still don’t seem to comprehend the actual point behind the protesting, or I suspect in some cases don’t want to comprehend because it challenges their deep-seated beliefs and/or prejudices regarding skin color. The manner in which some post confirms their racial bias. They can couch their comments behind Uber-patriotic fervor about love for Flag, Anthem and Country, but y’all ain’t fooling me.
Once again, these protests don’t have a damn thing with the sacred symbols of our great country or disrespect of the military. Once again I will remind those Uber-patriots that it was a Green Beret who suggested that Kaepernick kneel, rather than sit. Once again I will remind anyone who CHOOSES to believe otherwise that the protests are and always have been about police brutality and violence against people of color, nothing more and nothing less. Yet some of y’all CHOOSE to make it into something it is not. Some of y’all CHOOSE to not listen to the words Kaepernick spoke, or give him credit for putting his money where his mouth and knee is. If you do acknowledge it, it’s followed with a condescending “well, it’s not like he’s really giving anything up - he earned millions even though he has no talent”, never mind the fact that so have hundreds and hundreds of other so-called talentless players.
And once again, people of color are targeted by police and even by everyday citizens for simply living while black. Sleeping in a Harvard common room (which the young woman lived in). BBQing in Oakland. Inspecting a home as part of a man’s job. Checking out of an Airbnb but having the audacity to not wave at the white woman across the street. Driving with a tiny piece of vegetation in a man’s car window. That’s just off the top of my head, and just from the past couple of weeks. Those are the ones that made the news. I guaran-damn-tee you that there are hundreds of similar incidents on a weekly basis that don’t make the news and go viral.
Institutional racism. Subtle racism. Keeping your heads in the sand and stubbornly insisting from your white perspective that those don’t exist holds no water with those who believe on a deep, instinctual level that people of all races are created equal. Go ahead and look it up - it’s in our Constitution and everything. I’mma go out on a limb and say straight out that some here don’t really believe that, and that is the real reason some here are upset at the kneelers.
edited for spelling
Geordie - I fully comprehend the point of the kneelers. It's quite simple to understand. However, their viewpoint and your opinion on the matter is simply flat out wrong.
Frankly, the sheer hypocrisy is on the side of the kneelers. How many of them speak out and put in a good effort to do something about the REAL PROBLEM of drugs and gang violence in today's inner cities? Not many of them that I'm aware of.
I have the utmost respect for Jim Brown and others who have spent a lot of time and effort in the inner cities trying to change things for the better.
We are all Americans, and I have stated this for a long time...the continued massive poverty and unequal education for kids in the inner cities is unacceptable. It sickens me when I read stories such as inner city kids not even having textbooks because they are stolen or whatever. I don't care what happened to the textbooks - the kids should have new ones in place immediately. As well as computer access, IE: the same learning opportunity as any kid in the suburbs.
Back to the kneelers...the United States has the strongest civil rights laws in the world and they are rigidly enforced. When there is a bad cop, there are strict laws and punitive remedies in place for criminal behavior from anyone who violates these laws. But to throw all cops under the bus because of a few bad ones, and dissing our flag and national anthem with a false narrative, is both silly and reprehensible.
You think they are dissing the flag. They say they are not to a man. They grabbed a platform and used it. To get the word out. You being upset is just a causality in the process. Feelings on both sides and in the middle are all getting dinged up on this one.
There just was a Milwaukee basketball player that got tased and detained for doing nothing. The police chief said the officers acted poorly and used unnessary force. There were 45 minutes of body camera footage of this and it sure reflected poorly on the cops. Guess what the Police Union is now tying to protect the cops that acted the fool. That’s what cops do. Protect themselves .-The end result is they don’t police their bad cops .Thats why so many are afraid of cops especially if you are of color.
This plays out everyday in America.
m
<<< Thats why so many are afraid of cops especially if you are of color. >>>
Sorry Mark - I don't believe that in the least. In fact for example when Baltimore cops got hissed off at their mayor constantly badmouthing them about certain things similar to what you mentioned, and so the cops decided to ease up on policing certain inner city areas, the residents then clamored and complained that the police protection had diminished and they wanted it restored back to normal.
Except for the malignant drug dealers and gangs that haunt and terrorize the good people in the inner cities, I doubt if any of these good people for one second are afraid of cops.
The Milwaukee case should open your eyes then. This is exactly why black people are generally afraid of cops. They have every right to be. Black citizens get treated differently then you and I. That’s a fact that I’ve seen over and over again
White people want to believe that black people aren’t afraid of the police. That couldn’t be further from the truth. Walking in a young black mans shoes can get him in trouble for no other reason then being black. Until you have walked in those shoes I’m discounting the white take on it. Couldn’t possibly know
m
The "case" that we are all very familiar with is that of Michael Brown whereby the facts clearly showed and it was adjudicated in court, that the "hands up don't shoot" for one thing never happened. Yet to this day, i sometimes see protest signs from various groups still mentioning that as fact when in reality it is a false narrative, and I mean totally false.
Michael Brown tried to grab the gun of the police officer, and in my opinion the intent was for one reason only, Brown was going to try to shoot the police officer, which is attempted murder. If Michael Brown would have simply cooperated with the police officer for what turned out to be his crime of theft and assault of that store manager when Brown grabbed him by the neck, Brown would still be alive today.
Perhaps Brown would have served a little time in prison, or perhaps received probation of sorts because of his age, but that's certainly a lot better than being dead.
What should be done Mark is other people should place themselves in the shoes of a police officer, especially in the inner cities which are rampant with violent crime. These days, even a traffic stop could prove fatal to a police officer, and if the officer suspects the driver based on their behavior could turn violent against the officer, then the officer by law has every right to escalate the situation to make sure the officer stays safe.
BTW - I've never heard of a single story, not one at least in modern times, of any police officer asking what the race is of a person, before they bravely charge into a dangerous situation such as a burning building to try to save that person...and I think that says it all.
Have you ever been stopped by the police for just being white?
Blacks get treated differently then whites by cops. Not everytime but enough to be concerned. Everyone knows that. Admitting it in public or in a mixed crowd is another matter.
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@TNP777 said:
Steve, I likewise am astonished how some here still don’t seem to comprehend the actual point behind the protesting, or I suspect in some cases don’t want to comprehend because it challenges their deep-seated beliefs and/or prejudices regarding skin color. The manner in which some post confirms their racial bias. They can couch their comments behind Uber-patriotic fervor about love for Flag, Anthem and Country, but y’all ain’t fooling me.
Once again, these protests don’t have a damn thing with the sacred symbols of our great country or disrespect of the military. Once again I will remind those Uber-patriots that it was a Green Beret who suggested that Kaepernick kneel, rather than sit. Once again I will remind anyone who CHOOSES to believe otherwise that the protests are and always have been about police brutality and violence against people of color, nothing more and nothing less. Yet some of y’all CHOOSE to make it into something it is not. Some of y’all CHOOSE to not listen to the words Kaepernick spoke, or give him credit for putting his money where his mouth and knee is. If you do acknowledge it, it’s followed with a condescending “well, it’s not like he’s really giving anything up - he earned millions even though he has no talent”, never mind the fact that so have hundreds and hundreds of other so-called talentless players.
And once again, people of color are targeted by police and even by everyday citizens for simply living while black. Sleeping in a Harvard common room (which the young woman lived in). BBQing in Oakland. Inspecting a home as part of a man’s job. Checking out of an Airbnb but having the audacity to not wave at the white woman across the street. Driving with a tiny piece of vegetation in a man’s car window. That’s just off the top of my head, and just from the past couple of weeks. Those are the ones that made the news. I guaran-damn-tee you that there are hundreds of similar incidents on a weekly basis that don’t make the news and go viral.
Institutional racism. Subtle racism. Keeping your heads in the sand and stubbornly insisting from your white perspective that those don’t exist holds no water with those who believe on a deep, instinctual level that people of all races are created equal. Go ahead and look it up - it’s in our Constitution and everything. I’mma go out on a limb and say straight out that some here don’t really believe that, and that is the real reason some here are upset at the kneelers.
edited for spelling
Geordie - I fully comprehend the point of the kneelers. It's quite simple to understand. However, their viewpoint and your opinion on the matter is simply flat out wrong.
Frankly, the sheer hypocrisy is on the side of the kneelers. How many of them speak out and put in a good effort to do something about the REAL PROBLEM of drugs and gang violence in today's inner cities? Not many of them that I'm aware of.
I have the utmost respect for Jim Brown and others who have spent a lot of time and effort in the inner cities trying to change things for the better.
We are all Americans, and I have stated this for a long time...the continued massive poverty and unequal education for kids in the inner cities is unacceptable. It sickens me when I read stories such as inner city kids not even having textbooks because they are stolen or whatever. I don't care what happened to the textbooks - the kids should have new ones in place immediately. As well as computer access, IE: the same learning opportunity as any kid in the suburbs.
Back to the kneelers...the United States has the strongest civil rights laws in the world and they are rigidly enforced. When there is a bad cop, there are strict laws and punitive remedies in place for criminal behavior from anyone who violates these laws. But to throw all cops under the bus because of a few bad ones, and dissing our flag and national anthem with a false narrative, is both silly and reprehensible.
You think they are dissing the flag. They say they are not to a man. They grabbed a platform and used it. To get the word out. You being upset is just a causality in the process. Feelings on both sides and in the middle are all getting dinged up on this one.
There just was a Milwaukee basketball player that got tased and detained for doing nothing. The police chief said the officers acted poorly and used unnessary force. There were 45 minutes of body camera footage of this and it sure reflected poorly on the cops. Guess what the Police Union is now tying to protect the cops that acted the fool. That’s what cops do. Protect themselves .-The end result is they don’t police their bad cops .Thats why so many are afraid of cops especially if you are of color.
This plays out everyday in America.
m
<<< Thats why so many are afraid of cops especially if you are of color. >>>
Sorry Mark - I don't believe that in the least. In fact for example when Baltimore cops got hissed off at their mayor constantly badmouthing them about certain things similar to what you mentioned, and so the cops decided to ease up on policing certain inner city areas, the residents then clamored and complained that the police protection had diminished and they wanted it restored back to normal.
Except for the malignant drug dealers and gangs that haunt and terrorize the good people in the inner cities, I doubt if any of these good people for one second are afraid of cops.
Steve, you may doubt that, but you are sorely mistaken. I have many friends at work who are black and hear the narrative Mark described on many, many occasions. The perceptions they share and those that we have based on our experience as white men are markedly different and there really is no debate about that.
<<< The perceptions they share >>>
Tim, you stated the perfect word "perceptions" and as we all know, sometimes if not often, perception may not be reality.
You should know and we all should know because it is fact, that if someone is stopped by the police, if they are obeying the law, and cooperate with the police, they will have no problem with the police whatsoever. If they are not obeying the law, say a traffic violation, if we just basically keep our mouths shut, and accept the ticket without hassling the police officer over it, there will be no further problem. Come on now Tim - you know that, i know that, and we all know that.
This we should all know and we all know that is the root of the problem. It’s bs
What you stated above Is true.......if you are white. If you are black you would laugh at this. I wish what you were wrote were true for all. I think you are being naive.
m
No Mark, the facts point out everything I stated.
Sadly, some out there see one or a few incidents hyped up by today's media, and wish to make generalizations. Well that's their prerogative to do that, but it doesn't make it the overall truth.
@TNP777 said:
Steve, I likewise am astonished how some here still don’t seem to comprehend the actual point behind the protesting, or I suspect in some cases don’t want to comprehend because it challenges their deep-seated beliefs and/or prejudices regarding skin color. The manner in which some post confirms their racial bias. They can couch their comments behind Uber-patriotic fervor about love for Flag, Anthem and Country, but y’all ain’t fooling me.
Once again, these protests don’t have a damn thing with the sacred symbols of our great country or disrespect of the military. Once again I will remind those Uber-patriots that it was a Green Beret who suggested that Kaepernick kneel, rather than sit. Once again I will remind anyone who CHOOSES to believe otherwise that the protests are and always have been about police brutality and violence against people of color, nothing more and nothing less. Yet some of y’all CHOOSE to make it into something it is not. Some of y’all CHOOSE to not listen to the words Kaepernick spoke, or give him credit for putting his money where his mouth and knee is. If you do acknowledge it, it’s followed with a condescending “well, it’s not like he’s really giving anything up - he earned millions even though he has no talent”, never mind the fact that so have hundreds and hundreds of other so-called talentless players.
And once again, people of color are targeted by police and even by everyday citizens for simply living while black. Sleeping in a Harvard common room (which the young woman lived in). BBQing in Oakland. Inspecting a home as part of a man’s job. Checking out of an Airbnb but having the audacity to not wave at the white woman across the street. Driving with a tiny piece of vegetation in a man’s car window. That’s just off the top of my head, and just from the past couple of weeks. Those are the ones that made the news. I guaran-damn-tee you that there are hundreds of similar incidents on a weekly basis that don’t make the news and go viral.
Institutional racism. Subtle racism. Keeping your heads in the sand and stubbornly insisting from your white perspective that those don’t exist holds no water with those who believe on a deep, instinctual level that people of all races are created equal. Go ahead and look it up - it’s in our Constitution and everything. I’mma go out on a limb and say straight out that some here don’t really believe that, and that is the real reason some here are upset at the kneelers.
edited for spelling
Geordie - I fully comprehend the point of the kneelers. It's quite simple to understand. However, their viewpoint and your opinion on the matter is simply flat out wrong.
Frankly, the sheer hypocrisy is on the side of the kneelers. How many of them speak out and put in a good effort to do something about the REAL PROBLEM of drugs and gang violence in today's inner cities? Not many of them that I'm aware of.
I have the utmost respect for Jim Brown and others who have spent a lot of time and effort in the inner cities trying to change things for the better.
We are all Americans, and I have stated this for a long time...the continued massive poverty and unequal education for kids in the inner cities is unacceptable. It sickens me when I read stories such as inner city kids not even having textbooks because they are stolen or whatever. I don't care what happened to the textbooks - the kids should have new ones in place immediately. As well as computer access, IE: the same learning opportunity as any kid in the suburbs.
Back to the kneelers...the United States has the strongest civil rights laws in the world and they are rigidly enforced. When there is a bad cop, there are strict laws and punitive remedies in place for criminal behavior from anyone who violates these laws. But to throw all cops under the bus because of a few bad ones, and dissing our flag and national anthem with a false narrative, is both silly and reprehensible.
You think they are dissing the flag. They say they are not to a man. They grabbed a platform and used it. To get the word out. You being upset is just a causality in the process. Feelings on both sides and in the middle are all getting dinged up on this one.
There just was a Milwaukee basketball player that got tased and detained for doing nothing. The police chief said the officers acted poorly and used unnessary force. There were 45 minutes of body camera footage of this and it sure reflected poorly on the cops. Guess what the Police Union is now tying to protect the cops that acted the fool. That’s what cops do. Protect themselves .-The end result is they don’t police their bad cops .Thats why so many are afraid of cops especially if you are of color.
This plays out everyday in America.
m
<<< Thats why so many are afraid of cops especially if you are of color. >>>
Sorry Mark - I don't believe that in the least. In fact for example when Baltimore cops got hissed off at their mayor constantly badmouthing them about certain things similar to what you mentioned, and so the cops decided to ease up on policing certain inner city areas, the residents then clamored and complained that the police protection had diminished and they wanted it restored back to normal.
Except for the malignant drug dealers and gangs that haunt and terrorize the good people in the inner cities, I doubt if any of these good people for one second are afraid of cops.
Steve, you may doubt that, but you are sorely mistaken. I have many friends at work who are black and hear the narrative Mark described on many, many occasions. The perceptions they share and those that we have based on our experience as white men are markedly different and there really is no debate about that.
<<< The perceptions they share >>>
Tim, you stated the perfect word "perceptions" and as we all know, sometimes if not often, perception may not be reality.
You should know and we all should know because it is fact, that if someone is stopped by the police, if they are obeying the law, and cooperate with the police, they will have no problem with the police whatsoever. If they are not obeying the law, say a traffic violation, if we just basically keep our mouths shut, and accept the ticket without hassling the police officer over it, there will be no further problem. Come on now Tim - you know that, i know that, and we all know that.
This we should all know and we all know that is the root of the problem. It’s bs
What you stated above Is true.......if you are white. If you are black you would laugh at this. I wish what you were wrote were true for all. I think you are being naive.
m
No Mark, the facts point out everything I stated.
Sadly, some out there see one or a few incidents hyped up by today's media, and wish to make generalizations. Well that's their prerogative to do that, but it doesn't make it the overall truth.
Some just chose to ignore it because it’s easier and doesn’t fit there agenda. I find that sad that people dismiss it rather then being outraged. Sure blame every thing on the media. That’s weak. I guess that’s the new America. It either happened or it didn’t. How the media spins it right or left is another. matter.
Getting back to being black and the police. It happens everyday. Well not on Fox maybe. Anyways this happened. Stuff like this happens everyday. This happened. You are hearing about this only because he is a pro athlete. Otherwise crickets. This why you have NFLers protesting on Sundays. So they can be heard. So the problem can be addressed. I can’t believe we have people that deny this is an issue. Perhaps that speaks to the root of the problem.
Sterling Brown on being tasered ( the police video was brutal)
What should have been a simple parking ticket turned into an attempt at police intimidation, followed by the unlawful use of physical force. ... Situations like mine and worse happen every day in the black community. Being a voice and a face for people who won't be heard and don't have the same platform as I have is a responsibility I take seriously."
The Bucks organization also put out a statement Wednesday saying: "Unfortunately, this isn't an isolated case. It shouldn't require an incident involving a professional athlete to draw attention to the fact that vulnerable people in our communities have experienced similar, and even worse, treatment."
Concern over police brutality within the Milwaukee Police Department prompted protests in 2016 after an officer was acquitted in the fatal shooting of man who was running from him.
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I’ve said this time and time again, if some Black men are afraid of cops then why do they not comply or cooperate 100%? In most of these cases yes the police do go off the rails and use excessive force and GOT TO THAT POINT because they did not get 100% compliance instead they get mouthy “I did nothing wrong” so I don’t have to listen to you theme. I am white and I’m afraid of Cops, and guess what? I did 20 years in the LE field! When I have gotten pulled over my hands are where they can be seen and I comply 100% to every question and attempt to put the cop at ease because I’m well aware that a large percentage of police officers are political favors and don’t belong in the field to begin with or get scared easily and go for their gun first because they have zero self confidence in hands on combat. Instead of kneeling for the flag they should be trying to push for better training for police and getting lawyers involved for “targeted innocent black men” And as far as the NFL goes, they allowed it at first because the whole thing blindsided them and they had no idea all these players where going to play monkey see monkey do. Now that they fixed the issue all these players can spend their free time kneeling for the flag elsewhere and promoting their beliefs ON THEIR OWN TIME!! I promise you 99% of these frauds will NOT continue their stance into their own free time.
This all goes back to the myth of modern institutional racism. There just is no evidence of any government policy singling out those of African decent for negative treatment. This has become a self fulfilling prophecy for some. As children they are taught how evil the police are, and to avoid them at all costs. Then, when they get older and have an interaction with them, they are disrespectful and argumentative and fight back. A self fulfilling prophecy. Yes, there are individual bad cops, as there are bad employees in every profession. That does not mean there is institutional racism at work. It is just people's learned preconceived notions.
And Mark to state your against kneeling but see nothing wrong with it because the NFL allowed it is a joke, that’s called playing both sides of the fence.
Some of you guys are a hoot. I can see that you are coming from the side of being a denier. Now your stance is actually making sense to me. You actually don’t believe there a major issue with racism in America. It never even occurred to me that you would think that. Craig you are piece of work. You state there is just no proof but then your rallying cry in this thread is that you know what the players and “young athletes” are thinking and what their motive is or isnt . You dont.
Perk- what? You asked me how I felt about kneeling. I told you. I don’t like it. Doesn’t mean I don’t think the players don’t have the right to protest. Especially if their employer allows it. Now that they set a new policy for 2018 and they can fine kneelers. I’m fine with that. It’s their league. What’s there not to understand?
I’m beginning to think a lot of this stink is white fans being upset with young black athletes making a lot of money and making social noise. They want their athletes fast, strong, grateful and muzzled. I didn’t want to believe this but it sure seems like it to me
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@perkdog said:
I’ve said this time and time again, if some Black men are afraid of cops then why do they not comply or cooperate 100%? In most of these cases yes the police do go off the rails and use excessive force and GOT TO THAT POINT because they did not get 100% compliance instead they get mouthy “I did nothing wrong” so I don’t have to listen to you theme. I am white and I’m afraid of Cops, and guess what? I did 20 years in the LE field! When I have gotten pulled over my hands are where they can be seen and I comply 100% to every question and attempt to put the cop at ease because I’m well aware that a large percentage of police officers are political favors and don’t belong in the field to begin with or get scared easily and go for their gun first because they have zero self confidence in hands on combat. Instead of kneeling for the flag they should be trying to push for better training for police and getting lawyers involved for “targeted innocent black men” And as far as the NFL goes, they allowed it at first because the whole thing blindsided them and they had no idea all these players where going to play monkey see monkey do. Now that they fixed the issue all these players can spend their free time kneeling for the flag elsewhere and promoting their beliefs ON THEIR OWN TIME!! I promise you 99% of these frauds will NOT continue their stance into their own free time.
I can get behind a lot of what you have to say.
Thank you
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Mark stop it, your going off the rails now. To even suggest that this is about young black men making money is absolutely ridiculous, your credibility with me is pretty much gone after that. All along I been referring to the protesters as “Kneeling for the flag” not once have I stated “Black Guys Kneeling”. Stop implying that their is racist intent, My issue is they are doing it on TV while they are getting paid and they are frauds because they won’t do it on their own time. Just admit your 100% with the kneelers and get on with it, you have been dancing around playing both sides of the fence since the beginning of this thread, it seems to me your leaning more on the side of a kid acting like an idiot than you are LE doing their jobs if the kid is black.
Perk why get offended? I wasn’t throwing shade at you. It’s not off the rails because I know some people think like that. Just like Craig knows how young black athletes think.
I’ve never had much credibility with you nor do I seek it.
I think you are a good dude regardless. I’m about to take off now. Signing off
Mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@craig44 said:
This is just a phase. These disrespectful brats had their little say, and it will pass. Now that they are hit in the pocketbook, and realize that there is significant pushback to their little protest, it will die out. Five years from now this will be just a memory.
You don’t know any of this. Your soapbox is duly noted.
Besides I’m sure you will probably be the one to bump the thread in 5 years.
mark
Come on. The little protest is already losing steam. The moment it is not "cool" anymore they will all move on to the next trendy thing. This happens all. The. Time. I don't need to " know what anyone is thinking" to understand social trends.
When it becomes news worthy again, you bet I will bump it.
@Justacommeman said:
Some of you guys are a hoot. I can see that you are coming from the side of being a denier. Now your stance is actually making sense to me. You actually don’t believe there a major issue with racism in America. It never even occurred to me that you would think that. Craig you are piece of work. You state there is just no proof but then your rallying cry in this thread is that you know what the players and “young athletes” are thinking and what their motive is or isnt . You dont.
Perk- what? You asked me how I felt about kneeling. I told you. I don’t like it. Doesn’t mean I don’t think the players don’t have the right to protest. Especially if their employer allows it. Now that they set a new policy for 2018 and they can fine kneelers. I’m fine with that. It’s their league. What’s there not to understand?
I’m beginning to think a lot of this stink is white fans being upset with young black athletes making a lot of money and making social noise. They want their athletes fast, strong, grateful and muzzled. I didn’t want to believe this but it sure seems like it to me
mark
I never said there is no racism in America. I said there is no evidence of modern institutional racism. It's simple reading comprehension mark.
Simply because one is not a young athlete doesn't mean they cannot comprehend what may be behind their actions. That is the same faulty logic used by former athletes in broadcasting when they say to other analysts "you were never a player so you just can't understand this play" did Angelo Dundee not understand boxing because he never boxed? Does bill belichick not understand football or his players because he never played in the NFL? Do modern scholars not understand the social issues of the civil war, reconstruction and slavery because they were not slaves?
Your reasoning is faulty mark.
Maybe, just maybe, it is you who is the piece of work. Just a thought
@perkdog said:
Mark I think your a good dude as well I just disagree with you in this thread.
That is totally fine. I disagree with some of the things you said in this thread and agree with others. It’s not all or nothing.
Respectfully
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@Justacommeman said:
Some of you guys are a hoot. I can see that you are coming from the side of being a denier. Now your stance is actually making sense to me. You actually don’t believe there a major issue with racism in America. It never even occurred to me that you would think that. Craig you are piece of work. You state there is just no proof but then your rallying cry in this thread is that you know what the players and “young athletes” are thinking and what their motive is or isnt . You dont.
Perk- what? You asked me how I felt about kneeling. I told you. I don’t like it. Doesn’t mean I don’t think the players don’t have the right to protest. Especially if their employer allows it. Now that they set a new policy for 2018 and they can fine kneelers. I’m fine with that. It’s their league. What’s there not to understand?
I’m beginning to think a lot of this stink is white fans being upset with young black athletes making a lot of money and making social noise. They want their athletes fast, strong, grateful and muzzled. I didn’t want to believe this but it sure seems like it to me
mark
<<< I’m beginning to think a lot of this stink is white fans being upset with young black athletes making a lot of money and making social noise. They want their athletes fast, strong, grateful and muzzled. I didn’t want to believe this but it sure seems like it to me >>>
How many times has Mark jumped the shark in this thread? I'm losing count.
Come on now Mark, please stop with the racial insinuations about CU members here who disagree with your viewpoint. I think you're better than that, based on a lot of other good posts from you here and in the coin forum.
Edited: I left my original post unedited above. Suffice to say my point was basically addressed in other posts after Mark's post that was replied to here.
@craig44 said:
I never said there is no racism in America. I said there is no evidence of modern institutional racism. It's simple reading comprehension mark.
Simply because one is not a young athlete doesn't mean they cannot comprehend what may be behind their actions. That is the same faulty logic used by former athletes in broadcasting when they say to other analysts "you were never a player so you just can't understand this play" did Angelo Dundee not understand boxing because he never boxed? Does bill belichick not understand football or his players because he never played in the NFL? Do modern scholars not understand the social issues of the civil war, reconstruction and slavery because they were not slaves?
Your reasoning is faulty mark.
Maybe, just maybe, it is you who is the piece of work. Just a thought.
So predictable. The Craiger says there's no evidence of institutional racism, therefore it simply doesn't exist. At least one other guy here has similarly demanded that I produce hard evidence of the existence of IR to bolster my (and others) belief that IR is present in our society.
I've said it before, Craiger, and I'll say it again: you don't see that it exists because you don't want to see. To accept (or even consider) otherwise would rock your entire belief system to the core. You use faulty analogies (you're not a player so you can't understand, Angelo Dundee, Bill Belichick) to pretentiously infer that the average white dude (which describes pretty much everyone here) can understand what living in black skin is like. You don't see the subtle things black people do, and because you can't (or won't) see, those subtle things simply don't exist or are greatly exaggerated by activist athletes and their "little protests".
From Wikipedia (cue the FAKE NEWS dismissals):
Institutional racism (also known as institutionalized racism) is a form of racism expressed in the practice of social and political institutions. Institutional racism is also racism by individuals or informal social groups, governed by behavioral norms that support racist thinking and foment active racism. It is reflected in disparities regarding wealth, income, criminal justice, employment, housing, health care, political power and education, among other things. Whether implicitly or explicitly expressed, institutional racism occurs when a certain group is targeted and discriminated against based upon race. Institutional racism is mostly implicit in our ideas and attitudes, so it is often unnoticed by the individual expressing it.
The term "institutional racism" was coined and first used in 1967 by Stokely Carmichael (later known as Kwame Ture) and Charles V. Hamilton in Black Power: The Politics of Liberation. Carmichael and Hamilton wrote that while individual racism is often identifiable because of its overt nature, institutional racism is less perceptible because of its "less overt, far more subtle" nature. Institutional racism "originates in the operation of established and respected forces in the society, and thus receives far less public condemnation than individual racism.
@craig44 said:
I never said there is no racism in America. I said there is no evidence of modern institutional racism. It's simple reading comprehension mark.
Simply because one is not a young athlete doesn't mean they cannot comprehend what may be behind their actions. That is the same faulty logic used by former athletes in broadcasting when they say to other analysts "you were never a player so you just can't understand this play" did Angelo Dundee not understand boxing because he never boxed? Does bill belichick not understand football or his players because he never played in the NFL? Do modern scholars not understand the social issues of the civil war, reconstruction and slavery because they were not slaves?
Your reasoning is faulty mark.
Maybe, just maybe, it is you who is the piece of work. Just a thought.
So predictable. The Craiger says there's no evidence of institutional racism, therefore it simply doesn't exist. At least one other guy here has similarly demanded that I produce hard evidence of the existence of IR to bolster my (and others) belief that IR is present in our society.
I've said it before, Craiger, and I'll say it again: you don't see that it exists because you don't want to see. To accept (or even consider) otherwise would rock your entire belief system to the core. You use faulty analogies (you're not a player so you can't understand, Angelo Dundee, Bill Belichick) to pretentiously infer that the average white dude (which describes pretty much everyone here) can understand what living in black skin is like. You don't see the subtle things black people do, and because you can't (or won't) see, those subtle things simply don't exist or are greatly exaggerated by activist athletes and their "little protests".
From Wikipedia (cue the FAKE NEWS dismissals):
Institutional racism (also known as institutionalized racism) is a form of racism expressed in the practice of social and political institutions. Institutional racism is also racism by individuals or informal social groups, governed by behavioral norms that support racist thinking and foment active racism. It is reflected in disparities regarding wealth, income, criminal justice, employment, housing, health care, political power and education, among other things. Whether implicitly or explicitly expressed, institutional racism occurs when a certain group is targeted and discriminated against based upon race. Institutional racism is mostly implicit in our ideas and attitudes, so it is often unnoticed by the individual expressing it.
The term "institutional racism" was coined and first used in 1967 by Stokely Carmichael (later known as Kwame Ture) and Charles V. Hamilton in Black Power: The Politics of Liberation. Carmichael and Hamilton wrote that while individual racism is often identifiable because of its overt nature, institutional racism is less perceptible because of its "less overt, far more subtle" nature. Institutional racism "originates in the operation of established and respected forces in the society, and thus receives far less public condemnation than individual racism.
One could make an argument that affirmative action, hiring quotas, etc, is racist towards those not getting certain jobs and promotions even though their qualifications and performance are superior to those who get the job or promotion with lesser skills. In today's society, it can and does work both ways.
You mentioned 1967. I would agree back then that action was needed and I'm glad that action was taken accordingly. It's almost hard to believe that there used to be separate water fountains, etc.
However it's not 1967 anymore - that was over 50 years ago. And if electing an African-American president for two terms didn't prove anything to you and the kneelers, sorry to say I'm not sure what will?
Steve, I'm not sure how you can equate electing a black man as President (a man that far too many still claim isn't an American at all) to the everyday experiences of average black people. They aren't the same, and you're far too intelligent to seriously claim so.
Sheesh, it's worse these days than it was even five years ago. If you can't recognize that people with racist attitudes and beliefs feel particularly emboldened in today's America, then you simply aren't paying attention. (I'm talking racists in general, not just towards those of African descent.)
I posted this last night late so some may not have seen it.
First off I don't think this problem can be fixed by government and/or laws that the protesters are going after. This problem can only be fixed at home. Haters both black and white and brought up that way. I believe everyone is a product of their environment. Until children of ALL colors are brought up to respect everyone no matter what color we will have this problem. Nobody and I mean NOBODY wants this to happen more that I do.
T o explain this farther I don't think those that are racists now can be changed. I know that is being sounds bad. But think about it. Those that have been brought up that way.....what is it going to take to change their thinking. That's why I feel that this has to be changed at the family level. And that brings up another question. If a young man getting ready to start a family and has been raised in a racist family......what will it take to get him or her to change and bring this new family up where people are judged by what they do and not by their skin color. This is a huge problem.
Geordie, You like Mark are a great guy and I’ve enjoyed your input here for many years. That being said I think you are getting off track with this whole topic, I don’t know if you are Black/White//Latino/Asian and I truly don’t care what I care about is people like yourself and others insinuating that there is racism behind myself and others who are adamantly AGAINST kneeling, I’ve stated it since page 1 or 2 of this thread and I will say it yet again that my argument is that these “Kneelers” - Black or White are WRONG to kneel while they are on the job and on National TV which is NOT their social networking device to do as they wish. The argument about the NFL allowing it’ do it’s ok is CRAP! If they told the players it was ok to throw their helmets into the stands and they did and people got hurt would you say it was ok for players to do it? Again being in LE for over 20 years I’ve seen a lot of injustice to white people in many formats and it annoyed me but I never stood on a soap box and cried racism. I’ve seen people get places in high paying positions because their skin color was black, it happens and there is not much that people can do about it. Again if you really look at most of these cases where black men were subjected to excessive force from LE I promise you most of the time it’s been because of non compliance. Rather than be non compliant with LE because you think your being racially profiled how about complying and use social networking to let people be aware of it? Why put police in positions where they don’t know what’s in your hands or refuse to comply with basic orders?? That’s where small situations turn into BIG situations that end up tragic. How about Kap and the rest of the Kneelers finish up their work day and get together on their own time and start progressing along with their fight and help educate people better and give them a positive place to display their social injustice experiences.
@TNP777 said:
Steve, I'm not sure how you can equate electing a black man as President (a man that far too many still claim isn't an American at all) to the everyday experiences of average black people. They aren't the same, and you're far too intelligent to seriously claim so.
Sheesh, it's worse these days than it was even five years ago. If you can't recognize that people with racist attitudes and beliefs feel particularly emboldened in today's America, then you simply aren't paying attention. (I'm talking racists in general, not just towards those of African descent.)
I earlier mentioned the Michael Brown incident...and also, you stated "it's worse these days than it was even five years ago" and you are right. Most if not almost all of these protests can be traced back to the Michael Brown incident which was around 4 or 5 years ago. Then there were the horrible riots in Ferguson Missouri and then it festered from there. I think we all basically know the ongoing story about this, so no sense in regurgitating it here....suffice to say it led to the NFL kneelers.
The reason i stated earlier in the thred that it's a false narrative by the kneelers is because it is a false narrative. To add to the point, It's around twice the number of white people shot and killed by police in recent time than black people. And sure, black people are a smaller percentage of the population so the death percentage rate is higher for blacks, but the facts are that unfortunately crime is rampantly out of control in too many inner city neighborhoods, which naturally leads to more violent confrontations between blacks and the police.
I completely agree with the great Martin Luther King Jr who stated (paraphrase) to judge people not from the color of their skin but from the content of their character. I've always tried to do that, and in my opinion, the vast majority of Americans today do the same.
In conclusion, I loathe the KKK, but I also loathe the Black Lives Matter group because they are both extreme racist organizations. I judge both of those groups by the content of their character and in my view, both of those groups are despicable.
Unsurprisingly, I 100% agree with Kerr. I think he’s right on the money.
Forget to mention earlier: Steve and DM, I appreciate the dialogue. I think I understand to a point where you are both coming from. DM, I especially appreciate your candidness and willingness to at least try to voice understanding and even a bit of agreement with some elements of what Mark, Tim and I have been saying. We disagree on some major things, but it seems the disagreements are respectful. I meant to figuratively tip my cap to you last night.
Paul, let me chew a little on what you wrote. I’ll respond later today/tonight.
@TNP777 said:
Unsurprisingly, I 100% agree with Kerr. I think he’s right on the money.
Forget to mention earlier: Steve and DM, I appreciate the dialogue. I think I understand to a point where you are both coming from. DM, I especially appreciate your candidness and willingness to at least try to voice understanding and even a bit of agreement with some elements of what Mark, Tim and I have been saying. We disagree on some major things, but it seems the disagreements are respectful. I meant to figuratively tip my cap to you last night.
Paul, let me chew a little on what you wrote. I’ll respond later today/tonight.
yf
Geordie
Thanks Geordie. The things that we do agree on are the important ones. That being that people should be treated and judged by how they conduct themselves and treat other people....NOT....by the color of their skin!
Peoples rights are far more important than Football will ever be. It's just a game and form of entertainment. We as a people should be way more concerned about everyone's rights and how they are treated.
Dayum, I came back to this thread and sports forum peace broke out. Nice job fellas.
Kerr made a multitude of a salient points and he does have a unique perspective. I’m going to leave it at that as I don’t want to be the one who restokes the flames.
I want to wish everyone a Great Memorial Day Weekend and thank everyone who has kept this nation safe over the years. I just literally saluted the flag as I walked in the house. She’s a beauty
Peace. I’m going to take a break from this thread for the weekend.
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@1970s said:
So now we have an owner who will pay the players fines ? Is this the Jets owner ?
No wonder the Jets have sucked for years. Sounds like they need new management in
more ways then one.
He just traded the 2016 2nd round pic, a QB , for a conditional 7th rounder. Didn't they just draft a QB in the first round? Jets fans have bigger problems
@Justacommeman said:
Dayum, I came back to this thread and sports forum peace broke out. Nice job fellas.
Kerr made a multitude of a salient points and he does have a unique perspective. I’m going to leave it at that as I don’t want to be the one who restokes the flames.
I want to wish everyone a Great Memorial Day Weekend and thank everyone who has kept this nation safe over the years. I just literally saluted the flag as I walked in the house. She’s a beauty
Peace. I’m going to take a break from this thread for the weekend.
mark
Oh No.......No Mark to poke a stick at all weekend! Have a good one Bud!
@1970s said:
I love the national anthem before sporting events. It gives me goose bumps when I hear the American anthem before hockey games. Don't even get me started on hearing Oh Canada sung by the fans at Canadian hockey games. Very inspiring. The anthem means a lot to me and many people in uniform. They deserve the respect and admiration from the fans. Sports is a game of rules. The military not only follows, but enforces rules. Honor the military. Screw the guys who kneel and get them out of the NFL. It's so nice that KC is no longer in the NFL.
My eyes still often tear a bit when listening to our national anthem because I think about the words and what they mean. What it means is brave Americans fighting for freedom and liberty which has enabled the United States to become, by far, the greatest country that this planet has ever known.
"O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave."
@1970s said:
I love the national anthem before sporting events. It gives me goose bumps when I hear the American anthem before hockey games. Don't even get me started on hearing Oh Canada sung by the fans at Canadian hockey games. Very inspiring. The anthem means a lot to me and many people in uniform. They deserve the respect and admiration from the fans. Sports is a game of rules. The military not only follows, but enforces rules. Honor the military. Screw the guys who kneel and get them out of the NFL. It's so nice that KC is no longer in the NFL.
My eyes still often tear a bit when listening to our national anthem because I think about the words and what they mean. What it means is brave Americans fighting for freedom and liberty which has enabled the United States to become, by far, the greatest country that this planet has ever known.
"O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave."
Totally agree Steve. If you haven't read the story about the battle that actually inspired the NA.....you need to look it up. Talk about goose bumps!!!!
Call me a heretic, but I’m one of those that wouldn’t be upset if our Anthem became America the Beautiful. It’s a wonderful song, and doesn’t have that inconvenient third stanza.
@1970s said:
I love the national anthem before sporting events. It gives me goose bumps when I hear the American anthem before hockey games. Don't even get me started on hearing Oh Canada sung by the fans at Canadian hockey games. Very inspiring. The anthem means a lot to me and many people in uniform. They deserve the respect and admiration from the fans. Sports is a game of rules. The military not only follows, but enforces rules. Honor the military. Screw the guys who kneel and get them out of the NFL. It's so nice that KC is no longer in the NFL.
My eyes still often tear a bit when listening to our national anthem because I think about the words and what they mean. What it means is brave Americans fighting for freedom and liberty which has enabled the United States to become, by far, the greatest country that this planet has ever known.
"O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave."
Totally agree Steve. If you haven't read the story about the battle that actually inspired the NA.....you need to look it up. Talk about goose bumps!!!!
I am an aficionado when it comes to WW2. I've read a number of books and seen numerous cable TV documentaries and Youtube videos on the subject.
Admittedly, i don't know as much as I should about the War of 1812. Perhaps this thread will inspire me to read more about it.
Below is a 50's song which you've likely heard before, but perhaps some here haven't. It's a catchy little tune with some grit and humor in the lyrics regarding a key battle from the War of 1812. It was a big #1 hit song at the time.
@DIMEMAN said:
I remember that song well, but that is not the battle that inspired the NA.
You're right, just a song regarding the War of 1812.
Also some may not know that the national anthem played at the ballpark, is only first verse of the Star Spangled Banner. There are other inspiring versus as well, although in my opinion the first verse is the best one.
Early part of the 1960's I was at the drive in movies with my family. Recorded national anthem played. A soldier in uniform stepped out of the car next to us and saluted the flag. What previously was a nuisance to this snot nosed kid, took on real meaning that evening.
To hell with the athletes that want to urinate on the American flag. To hell with the spineless owners that don't give a rats behind about the nation that brought them unfathomable wealth. To hell with the lying, cheating politicians that subsidized the billion dollar stadiums that enriched these snakes.
Monday is Memorial Day and I will remember and appreciate every soldier that put his life before that of his family, neighbors and even the dirt bag NFL'ers that think that they were born with $200,000,000 in the bank.
That's a lot of resentment and bitterness to be carrying around, glicker. Dirtbags? Really?
The reality is that the majority of players in the NFL are hardworking, achievement oriented individuals who give back to the community and donate their time and/or money to many charitable organizations.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
@Coinstartled said:
Early part of the 1960's I was at the drive in movies with my family. Recorded national anthem played. A soldier in uniform stepped out of the car next to us and saluted the flag. What previously was a nuisance to this snot nosed kid, took on real meaning that evening.
To hell with the athletes that want to urinate on the American flag. To hell with the spineless owners that don't give a rats behind about the nation that brought them unfathomable wealth. To hell with the lying, cheating politicians that subsidized the billion dollar stadiums that enriched these snakes.
Monday is Memorial Day and I will remember and appreciate every soldier that put his life before that of his family, neighbors and even the dirt bag NFL'ers that think that they were born with $200,000,000 in the bank.
For those that deny that Americans of African descent live under different rules than those of European descent, I'm reminded of one of my favorite scenes from the book and movie, "A Time to Kill".
I set out to prove a black man could receive a fair trial in the south, that we are all equal in the eyes of the law. That's not the truth, because the eyes of the law are human eyes -- yours and mine -- and until we can see each other as equals, justice is never going to be evenhanded. It will remain nothing more than a reflection of our own prejudices, so until that day we have a duty under God to seek the truth, not with our eyes and not with our minds where fear and hate turn commonality into prejudice, but with our hearts -- where we don't know better.
Now I wanna tell you a story. I'm gonna ask ya'all to close your eyes while I tell you this story. I want you to listen to me. I want you to listen to yourselves.
This is a story about a little girl walking home from the grocery store one sunny afternoon. I want you to picture this little girl.
Suddenly a truck races up. Two men jump out and grab her. They drag her into a nearby field and they tie her up, and they rip her clothes from her body. Now they climb on, first one then the other, raping her, shattering everything innocent and pure -- vicious thrusts -- in a fog of drunken breath and sweat. And when they're done, after they killed her tiny womb, murdered any chance for her to bear children, to have life beyond her own, they decide to use her for target practice. So they start throwing full beer cans at her. They throw 'em so hard that it tears the flesh all the way to her bones -- and they urinate on her.
Now comes the hanging. They have a rope; they tie a noose. Imagine the noose pulling tight around her neck and a sudden blinding jerk. She's pulled into the air and her feet and legs go kicking and they don't find the ground. The hanging branch isn't strong enough. It snaps and she falls back to the earth. So they pick her up, throw her in the back of the truck, and drive out to Foggy Creek Bridge and pitch her over the edge. And she drops some 30 feet down to the creek bottom below.
Can you see her? Her raped, beaten, broken body, soaked in their urine, soaked in their semen, soaked in her blood -- left to die.
Can you see her? I want you to picture that little girl.
Let's imagine the rage and Twitter storm if Philando Castile had been a white man named Brian Stevens (name pulled from my infertile imagination). Imagine if Brian informed the policeman who pulled him over that he was armed and had a valid concealed carry. Would he have been shot with a child in the back seat?
Imagine if a young white woman had fallen asleep in the common room of her Harvard dorm. Would the police have been called?
Imagine if a white man had allegedly used his turn signal more than 100 feet from his intended turn. First, would he have even been pulled over, and if so, would the alleged reason he was pulled over be changed to "vegetation in his window?" http://www.kansas.com/news/local/crime/article211389039.html
Imagine a couple of decently-dressed white dudes waiting in a Starbucks for their buddy (a scene that literally plays out in every Starbucks in America a daily basis) without first ordering something. Would they have been asked to leave? Would six police officers show up to detain those decently-dressed white troublemakers, eventually leading them out in handcuffs?
So yeah, please keep telling us about these "little protests" and attention-seeking athletes who don't know why they're kneeling. Keep telling us that the sacred Flag and sacred Anthem are being urinated on by spoiled black men (because that's what you're really angry about) who dare to use their unique platform to protest the still-present discrimination and danger that people of color face on a daily basis.
You tell me that the vast majority of cops are good and decent people? I agree with you. You tell me that these men and women put their lives on the line on a daily basis to protect and serve people of all races? I agree with you. But also tell me why people of color still fear and distrust police, regardless of the good cops serving them. The reasons are there, whether you choose to acknowledge them or not.
@grote15 said:
That's a lot of resentment and bitterness to be carrying around, glicker. Dirtbags? Really?
The reality is that the majority of players in the NFL are hardworking, achievement oriented individuals who give back to the community and donate their time and/or money to many charitable organizations.
Pat Tillman for one. Doubtful that he would have been kneeling in any era.
Comments
The "case" that we are all very familiar with is that of Michael Brown whereby the facts clearly showed and it was adjudicated in court, that the "hands up don't shoot" for one thing never happened. Yet to this day, i sometimes see protest signs from various groups still mentioning that as fact when in reality it is a false narrative, and I mean totally false.
Michael Brown tried to grab the gun of the police officer, and in my opinion the intent was for one reason only, Brown was going to try to shoot the police officer, which is attempted murder. If Michael Brown would have simply cooperated with the police officer for what turned out to be his crime of theft and assault of that store manager when Brown grabbed him by the neck, Brown would still be alive today.
Perhaps Brown would have served a little time in prison, or perhaps received probation of sorts because of his age, but that's certainly a lot better than being dead.
What should be done Mark is other people should place themselves in the shoes of a police officer, especially in the inner cities which are rampant with violent crime. These days, even a traffic stop could prove fatal to a police officer, and if the officer suspects the driver based on their behavior could turn violent against the officer, then the officer by law has every right to escalate the situation to make sure the officer stays safe.
BTW - I've never heard of a single story, not one at least in modern times, of any police officer asking what the race is of a person, before they bravely charge into a dangerous situation such as a burning building to try to save that person...and I think that says it all.
Have you ever been stopped by the police for just being white?
Blacks get treated differently then whites by cops. Not everytime but enough to be concerned. Everyone knows that. Admitting it in public or in a mixed crowd is another matter.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
No Mark, the facts point out everything I stated.
Sadly, some out there see one or a few incidents hyped up by today's media, and wish to make generalizations. Well that's their prerogative to do that, but it doesn't make it the overall truth.
Some just chose to ignore it because it’s easier and doesn’t fit there agenda. I find that sad that people dismiss it rather then being outraged. Sure blame every thing on the media. That’s weak. I guess that’s the new America. It either happened or it didn’t. How the media spins it right or left is another. matter.
Getting back to being black and the police. It happens everyday. Well not on Fox maybe. Anyways this happened. Stuff like this happens everyday. This happened. You are hearing about this only because he is a pro athlete. Otherwise crickets. This why you have NFLers protesting on Sundays. So they can be heard. So the problem can be addressed. I can’t believe we have people that deny this is an issue. Perhaps that speaks to the root of the problem.
Sterling Brown on being tasered ( the police video was brutal)
What should have been a simple parking ticket turned into an attempt at police intimidation, followed by the unlawful use of physical force. ... Situations like mine and worse happen every day in the black community. Being a voice and a face for people who won't be heard and don't have the same platform as I have is a responsibility I take seriously."
The Bucks organization also put out a statement Wednesday saying: "Unfortunately, this isn't an isolated case. It shouldn't require an incident involving a professional athlete to draw attention to the fact that vulnerable people in our communities have experienced similar, and even worse, treatment."
Concern over police brutality within the Milwaukee Police Department prompted protests in 2016 after an officer was acquitted in the fatal shooting of man who was running from him.
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I’ve said this time and time again, if some Black men are afraid of cops then why do they not comply or cooperate 100%? In most of these cases yes the police do go off the rails and use excessive force and GOT TO THAT POINT because they did not get 100% compliance instead they get mouthy “I did nothing wrong” so I don’t have to listen to you theme. I am white and I’m afraid of Cops, and guess what? I did 20 years in the LE field! When I have gotten pulled over my hands are where they can be seen and I comply 100% to every question and attempt to put the cop at ease because I’m well aware that a large percentage of police officers are political favors and don’t belong in the field to begin with or get scared easily and go for their gun first because they have zero self confidence in hands on combat. Instead of kneeling for the flag they should be trying to push for better training for police and getting lawyers involved for “targeted innocent black men” And as far as the NFL goes, they allowed it at first because the whole thing blindsided them and they had no idea all these players where going to play monkey see monkey do. Now that they fixed the issue all these players can spend their free time kneeling for the flag elsewhere and promoting their beliefs ON THEIR OWN TIME!! I promise you 99% of these frauds will NOT continue their stance into their own free time.
This all goes back to the myth of modern institutional racism. There just is no evidence of any government policy singling out those of African decent for negative treatment. This has become a self fulfilling prophecy for some. As children they are taught how evil the police are, and to avoid them at all costs. Then, when they get older and have an interaction with them, they are disrespectful and argumentative and fight back. A self fulfilling prophecy. Yes, there are individual bad cops, as there are bad employees in every profession. That does not mean there is institutional racism at work. It is just people's learned preconceived notions.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
And Mark to state your against kneeling but see nothing wrong with it because the NFL allowed it is a joke, that’s called playing both sides of the fence.
Some of you guys are a hoot. I can see that you are coming from the side of being a denier. Now your stance is actually making sense to me. You actually don’t believe there a major issue with racism in America. It never even occurred to me that you would think that. Craig you are piece of work. You state there is just no proof but then your rallying cry in this thread is that you know what the players and “young athletes” are thinking and what their motive is or isnt . You dont.
Perk- what? You asked me how I felt about kneeling. I told you. I don’t like it. Doesn’t mean I don’t think the players don’t have the right to protest. Especially if their employer allows it. Now that they set a new policy for 2018 and they can fine kneelers. I’m fine with that. It’s their league. What’s there not to understand?
I’m beginning to think a lot of this stink is white fans being upset with young black athletes making a lot of money and making social noise. They want their athletes fast, strong, grateful and muzzled. I didn’t want to believe this but it sure seems like it to me
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I can get behind a lot of what you have to say.
Thank you
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Mark stop it, your going off the rails now. To even suggest that this is about young black men making money is absolutely ridiculous, your credibility with me is pretty much gone after that. All along I been referring to the protesters as “Kneeling for the flag” not once have I stated “Black Guys Kneeling”. Stop implying that their is racist intent, My issue is they are doing it on TV while they are getting paid and they are frauds because they won’t do it on their own time. Just admit your 100% with the kneelers and get on with it, you have been dancing around playing both sides of the fence since the beginning of this thread, it seems to me your leaning more on the side of a kid acting like an idiot than you are LE doing their jobs if the kid is black.
Perk why get offended? I wasn’t throwing shade at you. It’s not off the rails because I know some people think like that. Just like Craig knows how young black athletes think.
I’ve never had much credibility with you nor do I seek it.
I think you are a good dude regardless. I’m about to take off now. Signing off
Mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Come on. The little protest is already losing steam. The moment it is not "cool" anymore they will all move on to the next trendy thing. This happens all. The. Time. I don't need to " know what anyone is thinking" to understand social trends.
When it becomes news worthy again, you bet I will bump it.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Mark I think your a good dude as well I just disagree with you in this thread.
I never said there is no racism in America. I said there is no evidence of modern institutional racism. It's simple reading comprehension mark.
Simply because one is not a young athlete doesn't mean they cannot comprehend what may be behind their actions. That is the same faulty logic used by former athletes in broadcasting when they say to other analysts "you were never a player so you just can't understand this play" did Angelo Dundee not understand boxing because he never boxed? Does bill belichick not understand football or his players because he never played in the NFL? Do modern scholars not understand the social issues of the civil war, reconstruction and slavery because they were not slaves?
Your reasoning is faulty mark.
Maybe, just maybe, it is you who is the piece of work. Just a thought
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
That is totally fine. I disagree with some of the things you said in this thread and agree with others. It’s not all or nothing.
Respectfully
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
It seems like the NBA was light years ahead of the NFL in terms of the Anthem.
m
https://sports.yahoo.com/steve-kerr-nfl-rule-protests-anthem-idiotic-pandering-fake-patriotism-194648818.html
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<<< I’m beginning to think a lot of this stink is white fans being upset with young black athletes making a lot of money and making social noise. They want their athletes fast, strong, grateful and muzzled. I didn’t want to believe this but it sure seems like it to me >>>
How many times has Mark jumped the shark in this thread? I'm losing count.
Come on now Mark, please stop with the racial insinuations about CU members here who disagree with your viewpoint. I think you're better than that, based on a lot of other good posts from you here and in the coin forum.
Edited: I left my original post unedited above. Suffice to say my point was basically addressed in other posts after Mark's post that was replied to here.
So predictable. The Craiger says there's no evidence of institutional racism, therefore it simply doesn't exist. At least one other guy here has similarly demanded that I produce hard evidence of the existence of IR to bolster my (and others) belief that IR is present in our society.
I've said it before, Craiger, and I'll say it again: you don't see that it exists because you don't want to see. To accept (or even consider) otherwise would rock your entire belief system to the core. You use faulty analogies (you're not a player so you can't understand, Angelo Dundee, Bill Belichick) to pretentiously infer that the average white dude (which describes pretty much everyone here) can understand what living in black skin is like. You don't see the subtle things black people do, and because you can't (or won't) see, those subtle things simply don't exist or are greatly exaggerated by activist athletes and their "little protests".
From Wikipedia (cue the FAKE NEWS dismissals):
Institutional racism (also known as institutionalized racism) is a form of racism expressed in the practice of social and political institutions. Institutional racism is also racism by individuals or informal social groups, governed by behavioral norms that support racist thinking and foment active racism. It is reflected in disparities regarding wealth, income, criminal justice, employment, housing, health care, political power and education, among other things. Whether implicitly or explicitly expressed, institutional racism occurs when a certain group is targeted and discriminated against based upon race. Institutional racism is mostly implicit in our ideas and attitudes, so it is often unnoticed by the individual expressing it.
The term "institutional racism" was coined and first used in 1967 by Stokely Carmichael (later known as Kwame Ture) and Charles V. Hamilton in Black Power: The Politics of Liberation. Carmichael and Hamilton wrote that while individual racism is often identifiable because of its overt nature, institutional racism is less perceptible because of its "less overt, far more subtle" nature. Institutional racism "originates in the operation of established and respected forces in the society, and thus receives far less public condemnation than individual racism.
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
One could make an argument that affirmative action, hiring quotas, etc, is racist towards those not getting certain jobs and promotions even though their qualifications and performance are superior to those who get the job or promotion with lesser skills. In today's society, it can and does work both ways.
You mentioned 1967. I would agree back then that action was needed and I'm glad that action was taken accordingly. It's almost hard to believe that there used to be separate water fountains, etc.
However it's not 1967 anymore - that was over 50 years ago. And if electing an African-American president for two terms didn't prove anything to you and the kneelers, sorry to say I'm not sure what will?
Steve, I'm not sure how you can equate electing a black man as President (a man that far too many still claim isn't an American at all) to the everyday experiences of average black people. They aren't the same, and you're far too intelligent to seriously claim so.
Sheesh, it's worse these days than it was even five years ago. If you can't recognize that people with racist attitudes and beliefs feel particularly emboldened in today's America, then you simply aren't paying attention. (I'm talking racists in general, not just towards those of African descent.)
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
I posted this last night late so some may not have seen it.
First off I don't think this problem can be fixed by government and/or laws that the protesters are going after. This problem can only be fixed at home. Haters both black and white and brought up that way. I believe everyone is a product of their environment. Until children of ALL colors are brought up to respect everyone no matter what color we will have this problem. Nobody and I mean NOBODY wants this to happen more that I do.
T o explain this farther I don't think those that are racists now can be changed. I know that is being sounds bad. But think about it. Those that have been brought up that way.....what is it going to take to change their thinking. That's why I feel that this has to be changed at the family level. And that brings up another question. If a young man getting ready to start a family and has been raised in a racist family......what will it take to get him or her to change and bring this new family up where people are judged by what they do and not by their skin color. This is a huge problem.
Geordie, You like Mark are a great guy and I’ve enjoyed your input here for many years. That being said I think you are getting off track with this whole topic, I don’t know if you are Black/White//Latino/Asian and I truly don’t care what I care about is people like yourself and others insinuating that there is racism behind myself and others who are adamantly AGAINST kneeling, I’ve stated it since page 1 or 2 of this thread and I will say it yet again that my argument is that these “Kneelers” - Black or White are WRONG to kneel while they are on the job and on National TV which is NOT their social networking device to do as they wish. The argument about the NFL allowing it’ do it’s ok is CRAP! If they told the players it was ok to throw their helmets into the stands and they did and people got hurt would you say it was ok for players to do it? Again being in LE for over 20 years I’ve seen a lot of injustice to white people in many formats and it annoyed me but I never stood on a soap box and cried racism. I’ve seen people get places in high paying positions because their skin color was black, it happens and there is not much that people can do about it. Again if you really look at most of these cases where black men were subjected to excessive force from LE I promise you most of the time it’s been because of non compliance. Rather than be non compliant with LE because you think your being racially profiled how about complying and use social networking to let people be aware of it? Why put police in positions where they don’t know what’s in your hands or refuse to comply with basic orders?? That’s where small situations turn into BIG situations that end up tragic. How about Kap and the rest of the Kneelers finish up their work day and get together on their own time and start progressing along with their fight and help educate people better and give them a positive place to display their social injustice experiences.
I earlier mentioned the Michael Brown incident...and also, you stated "it's worse these days than it was even five years ago" and you are right. Most if not almost all of these protests can be traced back to the Michael Brown incident which was around 4 or 5 years ago. Then there were the horrible riots in Ferguson Missouri and then it festered from there. I think we all basically know the ongoing story about this, so no sense in regurgitating it here....suffice to say it led to the NFL kneelers.
The reason i stated earlier in the thred that it's a false narrative by the kneelers is because it is a false narrative. To add to the point, It's around twice the number of white people shot and killed by police in recent time than black people. And sure, black people are a smaller percentage of the population so the death percentage rate is higher for blacks, but the facts are that unfortunately crime is rampantly out of control in too many inner city neighborhoods, which naturally leads to more violent confrontations between blacks and the police.
I completely agree with the great Martin Luther King Jr who stated (paraphrase) to judge people not from the color of their skin but from the content of their character. I've always tried to do that, and in my opinion, the vast majority of Americans today do the same.
In conclusion, I loathe the KKK, but I also loathe the Black Lives Matter group because they are both extreme racist organizations. I judge both of those groups by the content of their character and in my view, both of those groups are despicable.
Steve Kerr should be ashamed of himself for those remarks.
Unsurprisingly, I 100% agree with Kerr. I think he’s right on the money.
Forget to mention earlier: Steve and DM, I appreciate the dialogue. I think I understand to a point where you are both coming from. DM, I especially appreciate your candidness and willingness to at least try to voice understanding and even a bit of agreement with some elements of what Mark, Tim and I have been saying. We disagree on some major things, but it seems the disagreements are respectful. I meant to figuratively tip my cap to you last night.
Paul, let me chew a little on what you wrote. I’ll respond later today/tonight.
yf
Geordie
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
I've stated for many years that I've never met a coin or card collector who I didn't like.
However my comment doesn't include coin or card dealers/sellers, the ones who are not considered collectors. Some of them can be rather unlikable. LOL
Thanks Geordie. The things that we do agree on are the important ones. That being that people should be treated and judged by how they conduct themselves and treat other people....NOT....by the color of their skin!
Peoples rights are far more important than Football will ever be. It's just a game and form of entertainment. We as a people should be way more concerned about everyone's rights and how they are treated.
Dayum, I came back to this thread and sports forum peace broke out. Nice job fellas.
Kerr made a multitude of a salient points and he does have a unique perspective. I’m going to leave it at that as I don’t want to be the one who restokes the flames.
I want to wish everyone a Great Memorial Day Weekend and thank everyone who has kept this nation safe over the years. I just literally saluted the flag as I walked in the house. She’s a beauty
Peace. I’m going to take a break from this thread for the weekend.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
He just traded the 2016 2nd round pic, a QB , for a conditional 7th rounder. Didn't they just draft a QB in the first round? Jets fans have bigger problems
Oh No.......No Mark to poke a stick at all weekend!
Have a good one Bud! 
My eyes still often tear a bit when listening to our national anthem because I think about the words and what they mean. What it means is brave Americans fighting for freedom and liberty which has enabled the United States to become, by far, the greatest country that this planet has ever known.
"O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave."
Totally agree Steve. If you haven't read the story about the battle that actually inspired the NA.....you need to look it up. Talk about goose bumps!!!!
Call me a heretic, but I’m one of those that wouldn’t be upset if our Anthem became America the Beautiful. It’s a wonderful song, and doesn’t have that inconvenient third stanza.
Yeah. I went there.
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
I am an aficionado when it comes to WW2. I've read a number of books and seen numerous cable TV documentaries and Youtube videos on the subject.
Admittedly, i don't know as much as I should about the War of 1812. Perhaps this thread will inspire me to read more about it.
Below is a 50's song which you've likely heard before, but perhaps some here haven't. It's a catchy little tune with some grit and humor in the lyrics regarding a key battle from the War of 1812. It was a big #1 hit song at the time.
I remember that song well, but that is not the battle that inspired the NA.
You're right, just a song regarding the War of 1812.
Also some may not know that the national anthem played at the ballpark, is only first verse of the Star Spangled Banner. There are other inspiring versus as well, although in my opinion the first verse is the best one.
Early part of the 1960's I was at the drive in movies with my family. Recorded national anthem played. A soldier in uniform stepped out of the car next to us and saluted the flag. What previously was a nuisance to this snot nosed kid, took on real meaning that evening.
To hell with the athletes that want to urinate on the American flag. To hell with the spineless owners that don't give a rats behind about the nation that brought them unfathomable wealth. To hell with the lying, cheating politicians that subsidized the billion dollar stadiums that enriched these snakes.
Monday is Memorial Day and I will remember and appreciate every soldier that put his life before that of his family, neighbors and even the dirt bag NFL'ers that think that they were born with $200,000,000 in the bank.
That's a lot of resentment and bitterness to be carrying around, glicker. Dirtbags? Really?
The reality is that the majority of players in the NFL are hardworking, achievement oriented individuals who give back to the community and donate their time and/or money to many charitable organizations.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
For those that deny that Americans of African descent live under different rules than those of European descent, I'm reminded of one of my favorite scenes from the book and movie, "A Time to Kill".
So let's play real life.
Imagine the rage and Twitter storm from a prominent former reality TV star if this had been an 18-year-old black Muslim man who assaulted a beloved white teacher's assistant. Imagine if that young black Muslim man had been released without bail. https://www.rawstory.com/2018/05/white-minnesota-student-accused-brutal-beating-left-black-teacher-life-support-released-without-bail
Let's imagine the rage and Twitter storm if Philando Castile had been a white man named Brian Stevens (name pulled from my infertile imagination). Imagine if Brian informed the policeman who pulled him over that he was armed and had a valid concealed carry. Would he have been shot with a child in the back seat?
Imagine if a young white woman had fallen asleep in the common room of her Harvard dorm. Would the police have been called?
Imagine if a white man had allegedly used his turn signal more than 100 feet from his intended turn. First, would he have even been pulled over, and if so, would the alleged reason he was pulled over be changed to "vegetation in his window?" http://www.kansas.com/news/local/crime/article211389039.html
Imagine a couple of decently-dressed white dudes waiting in a Starbucks for their buddy (a scene that literally plays out in every Starbucks in America a daily basis) without first ordering something. Would they have been asked to leave? Would six police officers show up to detain those decently-dressed white troublemakers, eventually leading them out in handcuffs?
So yeah, please keep telling us about these "little protests" and attention-seeking athletes who don't know why they're kneeling. Keep telling us that the sacred Flag and sacred Anthem are being urinated on by spoiled black men (because that's what you're really angry about) who dare to use their unique platform to protest the still-present discrimination and danger that people of color face on a daily basis.
You tell me that the vast majority of cops are good and decent people? I agree with you. You tell me that these men and women put their lives on the line on a daily basis to protect and serve people of all races? I agree with you. But also tell me why people of color still fear and distrust police, regardless of the good cops serving them. The reasons are there, whether you choose to acknowledge them or not.
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
Pat Tillman for one. Doubtful that he would have been kneeling in any era.
Do you get paid by the column inch, TNP?
My apologies if intellectual conversations overwhelm your short attention span, Glicker.
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
Glicker is jealous , he gets paid by the post. That why he needs 9 different ID's
And as the rest of the snowflake Steelers huddled in the locker room, Army Ranger Alejandro Valenzuela refused to participate in the childish idiocy.
Oh, Glicker. If you're going to purposely misrepresent what really happened, at least get Mr. Villanueva's name right.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/steelers/2017/09/25/alejandro-villanueva-national-anthem-pittsburgh-steelers-protest-trump/702056001/
edited to add:
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
And you believe that an Army Ranger is going to fold to PC idiocy? Good lord you need to get off the basement sofa.
And you believe that an Army Ranger is going to put self before team/unit? Good Lord, you're bitter and angry.
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie