@grote15 said:
Well stated, Geordie. Too often we refuse to come out of our comfort zone to at least entertain other perspectives and perceptions based on experiences with which we cannot identify. What's all but certain in discussions like these is no one is changing anyone's mind, at least on a sports message board where 98% of the individuals are middle aged white men who watch sports and collect cardboard.
Well the fan backlash to the kneelers certainly changed the mind of the NFL as the "new policy" was put into effect.
The problem is that the new policy isn't strong enough.
It's a token policy that will have little impact. The Jets have already stated they'd pay any fines levied by the league and more teams are sure to follow. Winning has been and always will be the primary agenda. You should understand that.
Actually, their primary agenda is making money.
To us the NFL is good entertainment, to them it's work. And I don't begrudge them one bit making money off the good entertainment they provide.
However when they allow kneelers who disrespect our flag and National Anthem, then it stops becoming entertaining.
Yes, but winning generally follows with increased revenue from a team standpoint. The league's agenda is to generate revenue, no question about it. I know I've said this before but it doesn't seem to have sunk in, likely because it is at odds with how glicker perceives the way things should be: the NFL raked in more revenue in 2017 than ever before. Anyone who believes the league is in financial trouble in any way shape or form is truly misinformed. Case closed.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
@stevek said:
Come on now, stop acting silly. Nobody is saying that and you know it.
The players have every right to peacefully protest...and enough NFL fans who stop supporting the league have every right to put some financial hurt on the NFL, if the NFL doesn't smarten up.
Silly? No. You literally said, "the problem is that the new policy isn't strong enough".
@DIMEMAN said:
Wrong....this does not cement your point. This group was formed about 6 years ago...way before Kap the JERK started his disrespect. This group was not hand picked to have this view. But I don't see how any Vet would not have this view.
Then you don't (or won't) see. I am a vet, too. I do not have the same view as you and your friends. I am not alone in that.
Yes....I see your stand and that is your right. My point was my group was not hand picked based on the view of this subject.
I realized that there are a lot of people who do not care. I'm just not in that group and don't know anybody personally that is in that group.
Don't take my stand as a knock on yours. We both have the same rights.
@TNP777 said:
I am former military. Most, but not all, of the men and women I served with strongly agree that Kaep and the others who knelt were 100% wrong and were disrespectful of the Anthem and Flag. Many of the football-watching friends I have made in my local churches also believed that, but more than half sided with the players and the real reason they were kneeling, which nothing whatsoever to do with the Anthem or Flag.
I have found the opposite....
The group of guys I have breakfast with every Wednesday morning are all Vietnam Vets and to a man we all loath the players that are doing this kneeling or other gestures against the NA and Flag! Plus I have not talked to anyone in person anywhere that support the players. The only people I know that support the players are the few here on the boards.
Dude, you're only cementing my earlier point. It's human nature that we surround ourselves with people who think like us. How long do you think a Vietnam vet that either had no problem with the kneeling or God forbid supported the kneeling would last as part of your Wednesday morning breakfast group? Not bloody long! And why would anyone want to try to dialogue or associate with someone (or group of someones) who is so steadfast in his/her belief that they won't even entertain an iota of dissenting thought?
Wrong....this does not cement your point. This group was formed about 6 years ago...way before Kap the JERK started his disrespect. This group was not hand picked to have this view. But I don't see how any Vet would not have this view.
Silly? No. You literally said, "the problem is that the new policy isn't strong enough".
I unwaveringly believe in our First Amendment.
Indeed
Mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@TNP777 said:
I am former military. Most, but not all, of the men and women I served with strongly agree that Kaep and the others who knelt were 100% wrong and were disrespectful of the Anthem and Flag. Many of the football-watching friends I have made in my local churches also believed that, but more than half sided with the players and the real reason they were kneeling, which nothing whatsoever to do with the Anthem or Flag.
I have found the opposite....
The group of guys I have breakfast with every Wednesday morning are all Vietnam Vets and to a man we all loath the players that are doing this kneeling or other gestures against the NA and Flag! Plus I have not talked to anyone in person anywhere that support the players. The only people I know that support the players are the few here on the boards.
Dude, you're only cementing my earlier point. It's human nature that we surround ourselves with people who think like us. How long do you think a Vietnam vet that either had no problem with the kneeling or God forbid supported the kneeling would last as part of your Wednesday morning breakfast group? Not bloody long! And why would anyone want to try to dialogue or associate with someone (or group of someones) who is so steadfast in his/her belief that they won't even entertain an iota of dissenting thought?
Wrong....this does not cement your point. This group was formed about 6 years ago...way before Kap the JERK started his disrespect. This group was not hand picked to have this view. But I don't see how any Vet would not have this view.
But they do.
m
I know and that's their right.
And I understand and respect yours 100%. Maybe more
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@grote15 said:
Well stated, Geordie. Too often we refuse to come out of our comfort zone to at least entertain other perspectives and perceptions based on experiences with which we cannot identify. What's all but certain in discussions like these is no one is changing anyone's mind, at least on a sports message board where 98% of the individuals are middle aged white men who watch sports and collect cardboard.
Well the fan backlash to the kneelers certainly changed the mind of the NFL as the "new policy" was put into effect.
The problem is that the new policy isn't strong enough.
It's a token policy that will have little impact. The Jets have already stated they'd pay any fines levied by the league and more teams are sure to follow. Winning has been and always will be the primary agenda. You should understand that.
Actually, their primary agenda is making money.
To us the NFL is good entertainment, to them it's work. And I don't begrudge them one bit making money off the good entertainment they provide.
However when they allow kneelers who disrespect our flag and National Anthem, then it stops becoming entertaining.
Yes, but winning generally follows with increased revenue from a team standpoint. The league's agenda is to generate revenue, no question about it. I know I've said this before but it doesn't seem to have sunk in, likely because it is at odds with how glicker perceives the way things should be: the NFL raked in more revenue in 2017 than ever before. Anyone who believes the league is in financial trouble in any way shape or form is truly misinformed. Case closed.
But would the revenue have been higher without the protests? The correct answer is certainly "Yes."
Also, i would have to believe that before the season began, most of the revenue for the season was already locked in with season ticket sales, TV and radio contracts, etc. This upcoming season will be a more interesting test about revenue in my opinion.
For sure, i've never seen so many pics and videos of NFL stands during the games with so many empty seats.
@stevek said:
I meant that comment in a business sense, not in a constitutional sense.
I unwaveringly believe in our First Amendment.
Fair enough
@DIMEMAN said:
Yes....I see your stand and that is your right. My point was my group was not hand picked based on the view of this subject.
I realized that there are a lot of people who do not care. I'm just not in that group and don't know anybody personally that is in that group.
Don't take my stand as a knock on yours. We both have the same rights.
And fair enough
+1 and I think we have found some common ground here..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
@galaxy27 said:
who is the wanker responsible for the resurgence of this flustercuck
The very same who initiated this flustercuck of course.
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@LarkinCollector said:
In a year and a half, I don't see a single opinion changed
I wonder if that means that we are a smart, educated, knowledgeable group of sports fans who have the courage to stick to our viewpoints...or just a bunch of curmudgeons?
@LarkinCollector said:
In a year and a half, I don't see a single opinion changed
I wonder if that means that we are a smart, educated, knowledgeable group of sports fans who have the courage to stick to our viewpoints...or just a bunch of curmudgeons?
My money is on curmudgeons
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I sincerely hope the Jets Owner gets draft picks taken away from him to go along with the fines. The fact that anyone regardless of who you are thinks it’s ok to protest your political or religious beliefs while you are at work and using national TV as your format blows my mind. If you want to disrespect the flag on your own time then go knock yourself out and have ball just don’t push it on people like me.
Report: NFL owners did not formally vote on anthem rule
It became clear almost immediately after the NFL announced its heavily flawed new national anthem rule on Wednesday that not everyone was on board.
New York Jets chairman Christopher Johnson said he won’t levy any fines or punishment against players who eschew the stay-in-the-locker-room part of the policy and kneel or visibly protest during the anthem, and will pay any fine the team gets for such an action.
Then it came out that San Francisco 49ers owner Jed York abstained from voting.
And on Thursday, ESPN’s Seth Wickersham said on Twitter and “Outside the Lines” that there wasn’t a vote at all, not in the formal sense.
@perkdog said:
I sincerely hope the Jets Owner gets draft picks taken away from him to go along with the fines. The fact that anyone regardless of who you are thinks it’s ok to protest your political or religious beliefs while you are at work and using national TV as your format blows my mind. If you want to disrespect the flag on your own time then go knock yourself out and have ball just don’t push it on people like me.
The way the Jets draft that’s hardly a deterrent
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Bronco, why should I stop watching a game I enjoy because some ignorant spoiled brats want to try and ruin it? I’m not wasting any of my time or energy I’m just stating my opinion.
@perkdog said:
Bronco, why should I stop watching a game I enjoy because some ignorant spoiled brats want to try and ruin it? I’m not wasting any of my time or energy I’m just stating my opinion.
Why not just skip waching the National Anthem then? Then way you watch the game uneffected. It was never shown before any of this “high drama”.
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@perkdog said:
Bronco, why should I stop watching a game I enjoy because some ignorant spoiled brats want to try and ruin it? I’m not wasting any of my time or energy I’m just stating my opinion.
This is just a phase. These disrespectful brats had their little say, and it will pass. Now that they are hit in the pocketbook, and realize that there is significant pushback to their little protest, it will die out. Five years from now this will be just a memory.
I will also not stop watching a game I love just because some disrespectful children wanted something to protest. The game is much bigger than them.
@craig44 said:
This is just a phase. These disrespectful brats had their little say, and it will pass. Now that they are hit in the pocketbook, and realize that there is significant pushback to their little protest, it will die out. Five years from now this will be just a memory.
You don’t know any of this. Your soapbox is duly noted.
Besides I’m sure you will probably be the one to bump the thread in 5 years.
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@craig44 said:
This is just a phase. These disrespectful brats had their little say, and it will pass. Now that they are hit in the pocketbook, and realize that there is significant pushback to their little protest, it will die out. Five years from now this will be just a memory.
I will also not stop watching a game I love just because some disrespectful children wanted something to protest. The game is much bigger than them.
Do you love the game or do you love whining about it? The game isn't bigger than them or anything. Search for meaning elsewhere, the game is mindless entertainment , meaningless it only exists to drain dollars from wallets.
Speaking of things happening during the anthem , make them shut down the concession stands , stop them from grubbing for dollars during it . Doesn't seem respectful to charge someone $12 for a hot dog during the playing of the anthem .
Wanna bet the concessions they do in that 60 seconds would cover the fines if every player knelt every game?
@perkdog said:
Bronco, why should I stop watching a game I enjoy because some ignorant spoiled brats want to try and ruin it? I’m not wasting any of my time or energy I’m just stating my opinion.
Why not just skip waching the National Anthem then? Then way you watch the game uneffected. It was never shown before any of this “high drama”.
m
Exactly.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
@craig44 said:
This is just a phase. These disrespectful brats had their little say, and it will pass. Now that they are hit in the pocketbook, and realize that there is significant pushback to their little protest, it will die out. Five years from now this will be just a memory.
You don’t know any of this. Your soapbox is duly noted.
Besides I’m sure you will probably be the one to bump the thread in 5 years.
mark
LOL
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
It's astonishing to me how some on here still don't seem to comprehend the entire picture.
I will boo anyone, repeat anyone, who disrespects our flag and our national athem. I don't care if they are football players or whoever. I certainly am never, repeat never, going to root for anyone who does that, and most definitely am never going to financially support them in any way, shape or form.
And YES, if the entire league players with support of all the owners would disrespect our flag and national athem, then YES I would discontinue watching and supporting NFL football. I will choose my country over some football league anytime and everytime without batting an eye.
All that being said, I agree with those who say let's not allow a small fraction of ignorant players and a few cowardly owners, to destroy the fun and entertainment of the entire NFL for the rest of us. I'm still a big NFL fan and hope to be for a long time.
Mark I don’t watch the anthem, in fact I channel surf when there is a time out, or a long replay ect so trust me I don’t sit there and watch the anthem. However I still have my opinion on the subject and it does not get me in fits one way or another. Btw Let me ask you straight up..are you ok with kneeling for the anthem yes or no? Everyone knows my stance I don’t really know yours.
Steve, I likewise am astonished how some here still don’t seem to comprehend the actual point behind the protesting, or I suspect in some cases don’t want to comprehend because it challenges their deep-seated beliefs and/or prejudices regarding skin color. The manner in which some post confirms their racial bias. They can couch their comments behind Uber-patriotic fervor about love for Flag, Anthem and Country, but y’all ain’t fooling me.
Once again, these protests don’t have a damn thing with the sacred symbols of our great country or disrespect of the military. Once again I will remind those Uber-patriots that it was a Green Beret who suggested that Kaepernick kneel, rather than sit. Once again I will remind anyone who CHOOSES to believe otherwise that the protests are and always have been about police brutality and violence against people of color, nothing more and nothing less. Yet some of y’all CHOOSE to make it into something it is not. Some of y’all CHOOSE to not listen to the words Kaepernick spoke, or give him credit for putting his money where his mouth and knee is. If you do acknowledge it, it’s followed with a condescending “well, it’s not like he’s really giving anything up - he earned millions even though he has no talent”, never mind the fact that so have hundreds and hundreds of other so-called talentless players.
And once again, people of color are targeted by police and even by everyday citizens for simply living while black. Sleeping in a Harvard common room (which the young woman lived in). BBQing in Oakland. Inspecting a home as part of a man’s job. Checking out of an Airbnb but having the audacity to not wave at the white woman across the street. Driving with a tiny piece of vegetation in a man’s car window. That’s just off the top of my head, and just from the past couple of weeks. Those are the ones that made the news. I guaran-damn-tee you that there are hundreds of similar incidents on a weekly basis that don’t make the news and go viral.
Institutional racism. Subtle racism. Keeping your heads in the sand and stubbornly insisting from your white perspective that those don’t exist holds no water with those who believe on a deep, instinctual level that people of all races are created equal. Go ahead and look it up - it’s in our Constitution and everything. I’mma go out on a limb and say straight out that some here don’t really believe that, and that is the real reason some here are upset at the kneelers.
@perkdog said:
Mark I don’t watch the anthem, in fact I channel surf when there is a time out, or a long replay ect so trust me I don’t sit there and watch the anthem. However I still have my opinion on the subject and it does not get me in fits one way or another. Btw Let me ask you straight up..are you ok with kneeling for the anthem yes or no? Everyone knows my stance I don’t really know yours.
Perk, I've said several times in this thread. I'll sat yet again. No, I don't like the kneeling. However since the NFL allowed the players to peacefully protest I have zero problems with that. That's where Steve loses me. I have have more respect for the First Amendment then I do symbols. That trumps all. I error on that side.
Protests aren't supposed to be comfortable. If you have a grievance what better stage to voice it. Their employers allowed it.
Of course we have mind readers here who try to undermind the protests by knowing what's really in their hearts. That plays to bias. That disgusts me. I respect the peaceful protestors. It's obvious some don't. That's their problem. Not mine.
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
To TNP777 and others who believe the players have the right to protest.......I TOTALLY agree. I believe all these injustices mentioned by TNP777 above exist. And YES I believe all men are created equal. We (USA) have a big problem!
My problem is do it (protest) some where else. Don't do it on your job and don't do it during the NA. I have a problem with that and I always will! The owners need to take a stand for what is right and put a stop to all this!
@DIMEMAN said:
To TNP777 and others who believe the players have the right to protest.......I TOTALLY agree. I believe all these injustices mentioned by TNP777 above exist. And YES I believe all men are created equal. We (USA) have a big problem!
My problem is do it (protest) some where else. Don't do it on your job and don't do it during the NA. I have a problem with that and I always will! The owners need to take a stand for what is right and put a stop to all this!
DM. I believe your words to be sincere. Very well put. Dayum that was good.
Just remember one thing. The players employers allowed the players to protest while at work. The players with social grievances took a stand. They are the ones with conviction and back bone. I can admire that.
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@DIMEMAN said:
To TNP777 and others who believe the players have the right to protest.......I TOTALLY agree. I believe all these injustices mentioned by TNP777 above exist. And YES I believe all men are created equal. We (USA) have a big problem!
My problem is do it (protest) some where else. Don't do it on your job and don't do it during the NA. I have a problem with that and I always will! The owners need to take a stand for what is right and put a stop to all this!
DM. I believe your words to be sincere. Very well put. Dayum that was good.
Just remember one thing. The players employers allowed the players to protest while at work. The players with social grievances took a stand. They are the ones with conviction and back bone. I can admire that.
mark
And while this doesn't offend some people.......it does offend me a millions of others.
@DIMEMAN said:
To TNP777 and others who believe the players have the right to protest.......I TOTALLY agree. I believe all these injustices mentioned by TNP777 above exist. And YES I believe all men are created equal. We (USA) have a big problem!
My problem is do it (protest) some where else. Don't do it on your job and don't do it during the NA. I have a problem with that and I always will! The owners need to take a stand for what is right and put a stop to all this!
DM. I believe your words to be sincere. Very well put. Dayum that was good.
Just remember one thing. The players employers allowed the players to protest while at work. The players with social grievances took a stand. They are the ones with conviction and back bone. I can admire that.
mark
And while this doesn't offend some people.......it does offend me a millions of others.
I agree that millions are offended. So the protestors should cave in because some are offended? Taking a stance for what you believe in is often not easy. The right to peacefully protest and exert their First Amendment Rights is what makes our country great.
The protesting players have gone out o their way to say they are not doing this to dishonor the flag or anthem. They are protesting social injustice on the biggest stage they could find.
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@TNP777 said:
Steve, I likewise am astonished how some here still don’t seem to comprehend the actual point behind the protesting, or I suspect in some cases don’t want to comprehend because it challenges their deep-seated beliefs and/or prejudices regarding skin color. The manner in which some post confirms their racial bias. They can couch their comments behind Uber-patriotic fervor about love for Flag, Anthem and Country, but y’all ain’t fooling me.
Once again, these protests don’t have a damn thing with the sacred symbols of our great country or disrespect of the military. Once again I will remind those Uber-patriots that it was a Green Beret who suggested that Kaepernick kneel, rather than sit. Once again I will remind anyone who CHOOSES to believe otherwise that the protests are and always have been about police brutality and violence against people of color, nothing more and nothing less. Yet some of y’all CHOOSE to make it into something it is not. Some of y’all CHOOSE to not listen to the words Kaepernick spoke, or give him credit for putting his money where his mouth and knee is. If you do acknowledge it, it’s followed with a condescending “well, it’s not like he’s really giving anything up - he earned millions even though he has no talent”, never mind the fact that so have hundreds and hundreds of other so-called talentless players.
And once again, people of color are targeted by police and even by everyday citizens for simply living while black. Sleeping in a Harvard common room (which the young woman lived in). BBQing in Oakland. Inspecting a home as part of a man’s job. Checking out of an Airbnb but having the audacity to not wave at the white woman across the street. Driving with a tiny piece of vegetation in a man’s car window. That’s just off the top of my head, and just from the past couple of weeks. Those are the ones that made the news. I guaran-damn-tee you that there are hundreds of similar incidents on a weekly basis that don’t make the news and go viral.
Institutional racism. Subtle racism. Keeping your heads in the sand and stubbornly insisting from your white perspective that those don’t exist holds no water with those who believe on a deep, instinctual level that people of all races are created equal. Go ahead and look it up - it’s in our Constitution and everything. I’mma go out on a limb and say straight out that some here don’t really believe that, and that is the real reason some here are upset at the kneelers.
edited for spelling
Geordie - I fully comprehend the point of the kneelers. It's quite simple to understand. However, their viewpoint and your opinion on the matter is simply flat out wrong.
Frankly, the sheer hypocrisy is on the side of the kneelers. How many of them speak out and put in a good effort to do something about the REAL PROBLEM of drugs and gang violence in today's inner cities? Not many of them that I'm aware of.
I have the utmost respect for Jim Brown and others who have spent a lot of time and effort in the inner cities trying to change things for the better.
We are all Americans, and I have stated this for a long time...the continued massive poverty and unequal education for kids in the inner cities is unacceptable. It sickens me when I read stories such as inner city kids not even having textbooks because they are stolen or whatever. I don't care what happened to the textbooks - the kids should have new ones in place immediately. As well as computer access, IE: the same learning opportunity as any kid in the suburbs.
Back to the kneelers...the United States has the strongest civil rights laws in the world and they are rigidly enforced. When there is a bad cop, there are strict laws and punitive remedies in place for criminal behavior from anyone who violates these laws. But to throw all cops under the bus because of a few bad ones, and dissing our flag and national anthem with a false narrative, is both silly and reprehensible.
@DIMEMAN said:
To TNP777 and others who believe the players have the right to protest.......I TOTALLY agree. I believe all these injustices mentioned by TNP777 above exist. And YES I believe all men are created equal. We (USA) have a big problem!
My problem is do it (protest) some where else. Don't do it on your job and don't do it during the NA. I have a problem with that and I always will! The owners need to take a stand for what is right and put a stop to all this!
DM. I believe your words to be sincere. Very well put. Dayum that was good.
Just remember one thing. The players employers allowed the players to protest while at work. The players with social grievances took a stand. They are the ones with conviction and back bone. I can admire that.
mark
And while this doesn't offend some people.......it does offend me a millions of others.
I agree that millions are offended. So the protestors should cave in because some are offended? Taking a stance for what you believe in is often not easy. The right to peacefully protest and exert their First Amendment Rights is what makes our country great.
m
First off I don't think this problem can be fixed by government and/or laws that the protesters are going after. This problem can only be fixed at home. Haters both black and white and brought up that way. I believe everyone is a product of their environment. Until children of ALL colors are brought up to respect everyone no matter what color we will have this problem. Nobody and I mean NOBODY wants this to happen more that I do.
@TNP777 said:
Steve, I likewise am astonished how some here still don’t seem to comprehend the actual point behind the protesting, or I suspect in some cases don’t want to comprehend because it challenges their deep-seated beliefs and/or prejudices regarding skin color. The manner in which some post confirms their racial bias. They can couch their comments behind Uber-patriotic fervor about love for Flag, Anthem and Country, but y’all ain’t fooling me.
Once again, these protests don’t have a damn thing with the sacred symbols of our great country or disrespect of the military. Once again I will remind those Uber-patriots that it was a Green Beret who suggested that Kaepernick kneel, rather than sit. Once again I will remind anyone who CHOOSES to believe otherwise that the protests are and always have been about police brutality and violence against people of color, nothing more and nothing less. Yet some of y’all CHOOSE to make it into something it is not. Some of y’all CHOOSE to not listen to the words Kaepernick spoke, or give him credit for putting his money where his mouth and knee is. If you do acknowledge it, it’s followed with a condescending “well, it’s not like he’s really giving anything up - he earned millions even though he has no talent”, never mind the fact that so have hundreds and hundreds of other so-called talentless players.
And once again, people of color are targeted by police and even by everyday citizens for simply living while black. Sleeping in a Harvard common room (which the young woman lived in). BBQing in Oakland. Inspecting a home as part of a man’s job. Checking out of an Airbnb but having the audacity to not wave at the white woman across the street. Driving with a tiny piece of vegetation in a man’s car window. That’s just off the top of my head, and just from the past couple of weeks. Those are the ones that made the news. I guaran-damn-tee you that there are hundreds of similar incidents on a weekly basis that don’t make the news and go viral.
Institutional racism. Subtle racism. Keeping your heads in the sand and stubbornly insisting from your white perspective that those don’t exist holds no water with those who believe on a deep, instinctual level that people of all races are created equal. Go ahead and look it up - it’s in our Constitution and everything. I’mma go out on a limb and say straight out that some here don’t really believe that, and that is the real reason some here are upset at the kneelers.
edited for spelling
Geordie - I fully comprehend the point of the kneelers. It's quite simple to understand. However, their viewpoint and your opinion on the matter is simply flat out wrong.
Frankly, the sheer hypocrisy is on the side of the kneelers. How many of them speak out and put in a good effort to do something about the REAL PROBLEM of drugs and gang violence in today's inner cities? Not many of them that I'm aware of.
I have the utmost respect for Jim Brown and others who have spent a lot of time and effort in the inner cities trying to change things for the better.
We are all Americans, and I have stated this for a long time...the continued massive poverty and unequal education for kids in the inner cities is unacceptable. It sickens me when I read stories such as inner city kids not even having textbooks because they are stolen or whatever. I don't care what happened to the textbooks - the kids should have new ones in place immediately. As well as computer access, IE: the same learning opportunity as any kid in the suburbs.
Back to the kneelers...the United States has the strongest civil rights laws in the world and they are rigidly enforced. When there is a bad cop, there are strict laws and punitive remedies in place for criminal behavior from anyone who violates these laws. But to throw all cops under the bus because of a few bad ones, and dissing our flag and national anthem with a false narrative, is both silly and reprehensible.
You think they are dissing the flag. They say they are not to a man. They grabbed a platform and used it. To get the word out. You being upset is just a causality in the process. Feelings on both sides and in the middle are all getting dinged up on this one.
There just was a Milwaukee basketball player that got tased and detained for doing nothing. The police chief said the officers acted poorly and used unnessary force. There were 45 minutes of body camera footage of this and it sure reflected poorly on the cops. Guess what the Police Union is now tying to protect the cops that acted the fool. That’s what cops do. Protect themselves .-The end result is they don’t police their bad cops .Thats why so many are afraid of cops especially if you are of color.
This plays out everyday in America.
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@TNP777 said:
Steve, I likewise am astonished how some here still don’t seem to comprehend the actual point behind the protesting, or I suspect in some cases don’t want to comprehend because it challenges their deep-seated beliefs and/or prejudices regarding skin color. The manner in which some post confirms their racial bias. They can couch their comments behind Uber-patriotic fervor about love for Flag, Anthem and Country, but y’all ain’t fooling me.
Once again, these protests don’t have a damn thing with the sacred symbols of our great country or disrespect of the military. Once again I will remind those Uber-patriots that it was a Green Beret who suggested that Kaepernick kneel, rather than sit. Once again I will remind anyone who CHOOSES to believe otherwise that the protests are and always have been about police brutality and violence against people of color, nothing more and nothing less. Yet some of y’all CHOOSE to make it into something it is not. Some of y’all CHOOSE to not listen to the words Kaepernick spoke, or give him credit for putting his money where his mouth and knee is. If you do acknowledge it, it’s followed with a condescending “well, it’s not like he’s really giving anything up - he earned millions even though he has no talent”, never mind the fact that so have hundreds and hundreds of other so-called talentless players.
And once again, people of color are targeted by police and even by everyday citizens for simply living while black. Sleeping in a Harvard common room (which the young woman lived in). BBQing in Oakland. Inspecting a home as part of a man’s job. Checking out of an Airbnb but having the audacity to not wave at the white woman across the street. Driving with a tiny piece of vegetation in a man’s car window. That’s just off the top of my head, and just from the past couple of weeks. Those are the ones that made the news. I guaran-damn-tee you that there are hundreds of similar incidents on a weekly basis that don’t make the news and go viral.
Institutional racism. Subtle racism. Keeping your heads in the sand and stubbornly insisting from your white perspective that those don’t exist holds no water with those who believe on a deep, instinctual level that people of all races are created equal. Go ahead and look it up - it’s in our Constitution and everything. I’mma go out on a limb and say straight out that some here don’t really believe that, and that is the real reason some here are upset at the kneelers.
edited for spelling
Geordie - I fully comprehend the point of the kneelers. It's quite simple to understand. However, their viewpoint and your opinion on the matter is simply flat out wrong.
Frankly, the sheer hypocrisy is on the side of the kneelers. How many of them speak out and put in a good effort to do something about the REAL PROBLEM of drugs and gang violence in today's inner cities? Not many of them that I'm aware of.
I have the utmost respect for Jim Brown and others who have spent a lot of time and effort in the inner cities trying to change things for the better.
We are all Americans, and I have stated this for a long time...the continued massive poverty and unequal education for kids in the inner cities is unacceptable. It sickens me when I read stories such as inner city kids not even having textbooks because they are stolen or whatever. I don't care what happened to the textbooks - the kids should have new ones in place immediately. As well as computer access, IE: the same learning opportunity as any kid in the suburbs.
Back to the kneelers...the United States has the strongest civil rights laws in the world and they are rigidly enforced. When there is a bad cop, there are strict laws and punitive remedies in place for criminal behavior from anyone who violates these laws. But to throw all cops under the bus because of a few bad ones, and dissing our flag and national anthem with a false narrative, is both silly and reprehensible.
You think they are dissing the flag. They say they are not to a man. They grabbed a platform and used it. To get the word out. You being upset is just a causality in the process. Feelings on both sides and in the middle are all getting dinged up on this one.
There just was a Milwaukee basketball player that got tased and detained for doing nothing. The police chief said the officers acted poorly and used unnessary force. There were 45 minutes of body camera footage of this and it sure reflected poorly on the cops. Guess what the Police Union is now tying to protect the cops that acted the fool. That’s what cops do. Protect themselves .-The end result is they don’t police their bad cops .Thats why so many are afraid of cops especially if you are of color.
This plays out everyday in America.
m
<<< Thats why so many are afraid of cops especially if you are of color. >>>
Sorry Mark - I don't believe that in the least. In fact for example when Baltimore cops got hissed off at their mayor constantly badmouthing them about certain things similar to what you mentioned, and so the cops decided to ease up on policing certain inner city areas, the residents then clamored and complained that the police protection had diminished and they wanted it restored back to normal.
Except for the malignant drug dealers and gangs that haunt and terrorize the good people in the inner cities, I doubt if any of these good people for one second are afraid of cops.
@TNP777 said:
Steve, I likewise am astonished how some here still don’t seem to comprehend the actual point behind the protesting, or I suspect in some cases don’t want to comprehend because it challenges their deep-seated beliefs and/or prejudices regarding skin color. The manner in which some post confirms their racial bias. They can couch their comments behind Uber-patriotic fervor about love for Flag, Anthem and Country, but y’all ain’t fooling me.
Once again, these protests don’t have a damn thing with the sacred symbols of our great country or disrespect of the military. Once again I will remind those Uber-patriots that it was a Green Beret who suggested that Kaepernick kneel, rather than sit. Once again I will remind anyone who CHOOSES to believe otherwise that the protests are and always have been about police brutality and violence against people of color, nothing more and nothing less. Yet some of y’all CHOOSE to make it into something it is not. Some of y’all CHOOSE to not listen to the words Kaepernick spoke, or give him credit for putting his money where his mouth and knee is. If you do acknowledge it, it’s followed with a condescending “well, it’s not like he’s really giving anything up - he earned millions even though he has no talent”, never mind the fact that so have hundreds and hundreds of other so-called talentless players.
And once again, people of color are targeted by police and even by everyday citizens for simply living while black. Sleeping in a Harvard common room (which the young woman lived in). BBQing in Oakland. Inspecting a home as part of a man’s job. Checking out of an Airbnb but having the audacity to not wave at the white woman across the street. Driving with a tiny piece of vegetation in a man’s car window. That’s just off the top of my head, and just from the past couple of weeks. Those are the ones that made the news. I guaran-damn-tee you that there are hundreds of similar incidents on a weekly basis that don’t make the news and go viral.
Institutional racism. Subtle racism. Keeping your heads in the sand and stubbornly insisting from your white perspective that those don’t exist holds no water with those who believe on a deep, instinctual level that people of all races are created equal. Go ahead and look it up - it’s in our Constitution and everything. I’mma go out on a limb and say straight out that some here don’t really believe that, and that is the real reason some here are upset at the kneelers.
edited for spelling
Geordie - I fully comprehend the point of the kneelers. It's quite simple to understand. However, their viewpoint and your opinion on the matter is simply flat out wrong.
Frankly, the sheer hypocrisy is on the side of the kneelers. How many of them speak out and put in a good effort to do something about the REAL PROBLEM of drugs and gang violence in today's inner cities? Not many of them that I'm aware of.
I have the utmost respect for Jim Brown and others who have spent a lot of time and effort in the inner cities trying to change things for the better.
We are all Americans, and I have stated this for a long time...the continued massive poverty and unequal education for kids in the inner cities is unacceptable. It sickens me when I read stories such as inner city kids not even having textbooks because they are stolen or whatever. I don't care what happened to the textbooks - the kids should have new ones in place immediately. As well as computer access, IE: the same learning opportunity as any kid in the suburbs.
Back to the kneelers...the United States has the strongest civil rights laws in the world and they are rigidly enforced. When there is a bad cop, there are strict laws and punitive remedies in place for criminal behavior from anyone who violates these laws. But to throw all cops under the bus because of a few bad ones, and dissing our flag and national anthem with a false narrative, is both silly and reprehensible.
You think they are dissing the flag. They say they are not to a man. They grabbed a platform and used it. To get the word out. You being upset is just a causality in the process. Feelings on both sides and in the middle are all getting dinged up on this one.
There just was a Milwaukee basketball player that got tased and detained for doing nothing. The police chief said the officers acted poorly and used unnessary force. There were 45 minutes of body camera footage of this and it sure reflected poorly on the cops. Guess what the Police Union is now tying to protect the cops that acted the fool. That’s what cops do. Protect themselves .-The end result is they don’t police their bad cops .Thats why so many are afraid of cops especially if you are of color.
This plays out everyday in America.
m
<<< Thats why so many are afraid of cops especially if you are of color. >>>
Sorry Mark - I don't believe that in the least. In fact for example when Baltimore cops got hissed off at their mayor constantly badmouthing them about certain things similar to what you mentioned, and so the cops decided to ease up on policing certain inner city areas, the residents then clamored and complained that the police protection had diminished and they wanted it restored back to normal.
Except for the malignant drug dealers and gangs that haunt and terrorize the good people in the inner cities, I doubt if any of these good people for one second are afraid of cops.
Steve, you may doubt that, but you are sorely mistaken. I have many friends at work who are black and hear the narrative Mark described on many, many occasions. The perceptions they share and those that we have based on our experience as white men are markedly different and there really is no debate about that.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
@TNP777 said:
Steve, I likewise am astonished how some here still don’t seem to comprehend the actual point behind the protesting, or I suspect in some cases don’t want to comprehend because it challenges their deep-seated beliefs and/or prejudices regarding skin color. The manner in which some post confirms their racial bias. They can couch their comments behind Uber-patriotic fervor about love for Flag, Anthem and Country, but y’all ain’t fooling me.
Once again, these protests don’t have a damn thing with the sacred symbols of our great country or disrespect of the military. Once again I will remind those Uber-patriots that it was a Green Beret who suggested that Kaepernick kneel, rather than sit. Once again I will remind anyone who CHOOSES to believe otherwise that the protests are and always have been about police brutality and violence against people of color, nothing more and nothing less. Yet some of y’all CHOOSE to make it into something it is not. Some of y’all CHOOSE to not listen to the words Kaepernick spoke, or give him credit for putting his money where his mouth and knee is. If you do acknowledge it, it’s followed with a condescending “well, it’s not like he’s really giving anything up - he earned millions even though he has no talent”, never mind the fact that so have hundreds and hundreds of other so-called talentless players.
And once again, people of color are targeted by police and even by everyday citizens for simply living while black. Sleeping in a Harvard common room (which the young woman lived in). BBQing in Oakland. Inspecting a home as part of a man’s job. Checking out of an Airbnb but having the audacity to not wave at the white woman across the street. Driving with a tiny piece of vegetation in a man’s car window. That’s just off the top of my head, and just from the past couple of weeks. Those are the ones that made the news. I guaran-damn-tee you that there are hundreds of similar incidents on a weekly basis that don’t make the news and go viral.
Institutional racism. Subtle racism. Keeping your heads in the sand and stubbornly insisting from your white perspective that those don’t exist holds no water with those who believe on a deep, instinctual level that people of all races are created equal. Go ahead and look it up - it’s in our Constitution and everything. I’mma go out on a limb and say straight out that some here don’t really believe that, and that is the real reason some here are upset at the kneelers.
edited for spelling
Geordie - I fully comprehend the point of the kneelers. It's quite simple to understand. However, their viewpoint and your opinion on the matter is simply flat out wrong.
Frankly, the sheer hypocrisy is on the side of the kneelers. How many of them speak out and put in a good effort to do something about the REAL PROBLEM of drugs and gang violence in today's inner cities? Not many of them that I'm aware of.
I have the utmost respect for Jim Brown and others who have spent a lot of time and effort in the inner cities trying to change things for the better.
We are all Americans, and I have stated this for a long time...the continued massive poverty and unequal education for kids in the inner cities is unacceptable. It sickens me when I read stories such as inner city kids not even having textbooks because they are stolen or whatever. I don't care what happened to the textbooks - the kids should have new ones in place immediately. As well as computer access, IE: the same learning opportunity as any kid in the suburbs.
Back to the kneelers...the United States has the strongest civil rights laws in the world and they are rigidly enforced. When there is a bad cop, there are strict laws and punitive remedies in place for criminal behavior from anyone who violates these laws. But to throw all cops under the bus because of a few bad ones, and dissing our flag and national anthem with a false narrative, is both silly and reprehensible.
You think they are dissing the flag. They say they are not to a man. They grabbed a platform and used it. To get the word out. You being upset is just a causality in the process. Feelings on both sides and in the middle are all getting dinged up on this one.
There just was a Milwaukee basketball player that got tased and detained for doing nothing. The police chief said the officers acted poorly and used unnessary force. There were 45 minutes of body camera footage of this and it sure reflected poorly on the cops. Guess what the Police Union is now tying to protect the cops that acted the fool. That’s what cops do. Protect themselves .-The end result is they don’t police their bad cops .Thats why so many are afraid of cops especially if you are of color.
This plays out everyday in America.
m
<<< Thats why so many are afraid of cops especially if you are of color. >>>
Sorry Mark - I don't believe that in the least. In fact for example when Baltimore cops got hissed off at their mayor constantly badmouthing them about certain things similar to what you mentioned, and so the cops decided to ease up on policing certain inner city areas, the residents then clamored and complained that the police protection had diminished and they wanted it restored back to normal.
Except for the malignant drug dealers and gangs that haunt and terrorize the good people in the inner cities, I doubt if any of these good people for one second are afraid of cops.
The Milwaukee case should open your eyes then. This is exactly why black people are generally afraid of cops. They have every right to be. Black citizens get treated differently then you and I. That’s a fact that I’ve seen over and over again
White people want to believe that black people aren’t afraid of the police. That couldn’t be further from the truth. Walking in a young black mans shoes can get him in trouble for no other reason then being black. Until you have walked in those shoes I’m discounting the white take on it. Couldn’t possibly know
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@TNP777 said:
Steve, I likewise am astonished how some here still don’t seem to comprehend the actual point behind the protesting, or I suspect in some cases don’t want to comprehend because it challenges their deep-seated beliefs and/or prejudices regarding skin color. The manner in which some post confirms their racial bias. They can couch their comments behind Uber-patriotic fervor about love for Flag, Anthem and Country, but y’all ain’t fooling me.
Once again, these protests don’t have a damn thing with the sacred symbols of our great country or disrespect of the military. Once again I will remind those Uber-patriots that it was a Green Beret who suggested that Kaepernick kneel, rather than sit. Once again I will remind anyone who CHOOSES to believe otherwise that the protests are and always have been about police brutality and violence against people of color, nothing more and nothing less. Yet some of y’all CHOOSE to make it into something it is not. Some of y’all CHOOSE to not listen to the words Kaepernick spoke, or give him credit for putting his money where his mouth and knee is. If you do acknowledge it, it’s followed with a condescending “well, it’s not like he’s really giving anything up - he earned millions even though he has no talent”, never mind the fact that so have hundreds and hundreds of other so-called talentless players.
And once again, people of color are targeted by police and even by everyday citizens for simply living while black. Sleeping in a Harvard common room (which the young woman lived in). BBQing in Oakland. Inspecting a home as part of a man’s job. Checking out of an Airbnb but having the audacity to not wave at the white woman across the street. Driving with a tiny piece of vegetation in a man’s car window. That’s just off the top of my head, and just from the past couple of weeks. Those are the ones that made the news. I guaran-damn-tee you that there are hundreds of similar incidents on a weekly basis that don’t make the news and go viral.
Institutional racism. Subtle racism. Keeping your heads in the sand and stubbornly insisting from your white perspective that those don’t exist holds no water with those who believe on a deep, instinctual level that people of all races are created equal. Go ahead and look it up - it’s in our Constitution and everything. I’mma go out on a limb and say straight out that some here don’t really believe that, and that is the real reason some here are upset at the kneelers.
edited for spelling
Geordie - I fully comprehend the point of the kneelers. It's quite simple to understand. However, their viewpoint and your opinion on the matter is simply flat out wrong.
Frankly, the sheer hypocrisy is on the side of the kneelers. How many of them speak out and put in a good effort to do something about the REAL PROBLEM of drugs and gang violence in today's inner cities? Not many of them that I'm aware of.
I have the utmost respect for Jim Brown and others who have spent a lot of time and effort in the inner cities trying to change things for the better.
We are all Americans, and I have stated this for a long time...the continued massive poverty and unequal education for kids in the inner cities is unacceptable. It sickens me when I read stories such as inner city kids not even having textbooks because they are stolen or whatever. I don't care what happened to the textbooks - the kids should have new ones in place immediately. As well as computer access, IE: the same learning opportunity as any kid in the suburbs.
Back to the kneelers...the United States has the strongest civil rights laws in the world and they are rigidly enforced. When there is a bad cop, there are strict laws and punitive remedies in place for criminal behavior from anyone who violates these laws. But to throw all cops under the bus because of a few bad ones, and dissing our flag and national anthem with a false narrative, is both silly and reprehensible.
You think they are dissing the flag. They say they are not to a man. They grabbed a platform and used it. To get the word out. You being upset is just a causality in the process. Feelings on both sides and in the middle are all getting dinged up on this one.
There just was a Milwaukee basketball player that got tased and detained for doing nothing. The police chief said the officers acted poorly and used unnessary force. There were 45 minutes of body camera footage of this and it sure reflected poorly on the cops. Guess what the Police Union is now tying to protect the cops that acted the fool. That’s what cops do. Protect themselves .-The end result is they don’t police their bad cops .Thats why so many are afraid of cops especially if you are of color.
This plays out everyday in America.
m
<<< Thats why so many are afraid of cops especially if you are of color. >>>
Sorry Mark - I don't believe that in the least. In fact for example when Baltimore cops got hissed off at their mayor constantly badmouthing them about certain things similar to what you mentioned, and so the cops decided to ease up on policing certain inner city areas, the residents then clamored and complained that the police protection had diminished and they wanted it restored back to normal.
Except for the malignant drug dealers and gangs that haunt and terrorize the good people in the inner cities, I doubt if any of these good people for one second are afraid of cops.
Steve, you may doubt that, but you are sorely mistaken. I have many friends at work who are black and hear the narrative Mark described on many, many occasions. The perceptions they share and those that we have based on our experience as white men are markedly different and there really is no debate about that.
<<< The perceptions they share >>>
Tim, you stated the perfect word "perceptions" and as we all know, sometimes if not often, perception may not be reality.
You should know and we all should know because it is fact, that if someone is stopped by the police, if they are obeying the law, and cooperate with the police, they will have no problem with the police whatsoever. If they are not obeying the law, say a traffic violation, if we just basically keep our mouths shut, and accept the ticket without hassling the police officer over it, there will be no further problem. Come on now Tim - you know that, i know that, and we all know that.
If someone is stopped by the police or is disobeying the law, AND they cause a disturbance of sorts over it, then there is going to be a further problem. Then the police have every right to escalate the situation accordingly such as further charges or arrest, as it is the law in basically every civilized society on this planet to cooperate with police officers.
@TNP777 said:
Steve, I likewise am astonished how some here still don’t seem to comprehend the actual point behind the protesting, or I suspect in some cases don’t want to comprehend because it challenges their deep-seated beliefs and/or prejudices regarding skin color. The manner in which some post confirms their racial bias. They can couch their comments behind Uber-patriotic fervor about love for Flag, Anthem and Country, but y’all ain’t fooling me.
Once again, these protests don’t have a damn thing with the sacred symbols of our great country or disrespect of the military. Once again I will remind those Uber-patriots that it was a Green Beret who suggested that Kaepernick kneel, rather than sit. Once again I will remind anyone who CHOOSES to believe otherwise that the protests are and always have been about police brutality and violence against people of color, nothing more and nothing less. Yet some of y’all CHOOSE to make it into something it is not. Some of y’all CHOOSE to not listen to the words Kaepernick spoke, or give him credit for putting his money where his mouth and knee is. If you do acknowledge it, it’s followed with a condescending “well, it’s not like he’s really giving anything up - he earned millions even though he has no talent”, never mind the fact that so have hundreds and hundreds of other so-called talentless players.
And once again, people of color are targeted by police and even by everyday citizens for simply living while black. Sleeping in a Harvard common room (which the young woman lived in). BBQing in Oakland. Inspecting a home as part of a man’s job. Checking out of an Airbnb but having the audacity to not wave at the white woman across the street. Driving with a tiny piece of vegetation in a man’s car window. That’s just off the top of my head, and just from the past couple of weeks. Those are the ones that made the news. I guaran-damn-tee you that there are hundreds of similar incidents on a weekly basis that don’t make the news and go viral.
Institutional racism. Subtle racism. Keeping your heads in the sand and stubbornly insisting from your white perspective that those don’t exist holds no water with those who believe on a deep, instinctual level that people of all races are created equal. Go ahead and look it up - it’s in our Constitution and everything. I’mma go out on a limb and say straight out that some here don’t really believe that, and that is the real reason some here are upset at the kneelers.
edited for spelling
Geordie - I fully comprehend the point of the kneelers. It's quite simple to understand. However, their viewpoint and your opinion on the matter is simply flat out wrong.
Frankly, the sheer hypocrisy is on the side of the kneelers. How many of them speak out and put in a good effort to do something about the REAL PROBLEM of drugs and gang violence in today's inner cities? Not many of them that I'm aware of.
I have the utmost respect for Jim Brown and others who have spent a lot of time and effort in the inner cities trying to change things for the better.
We are all Americans, and I have stated this for a long time...the continued massive poverty and unequal education for kids in the inner cities is unacceptable. It sickens me when I read stories such as inner city kids not even having textbooks because they are stolen or whatever. I don't care what happened to the textbooks - the kids should have new ones in place immediately. As well as computer access, IE: the same learning opportunity as any kid in the suburbs.
Back to the kneelers...the United States has the strongest civil rights laws in the world and they are rigidly enforced. When there is a bad cop, there are strict laws and punitive remedies in place for criminal behavior from anyone who violates these laws. But to throw all cops under the bus because of a few bad ones, and dissing our flag and national anthem with a false narrative, is both silly and reprehensible.
You think they are dissing the flag. They say they are not to a man. They grabbed a platform and used it. To get the word out. You being upset is just a causality in the process. Feelings on both sides and in the middle are all getting dinged up on this one.
There just was a Milwaukee basketball player that got tased and detained for doing nothing. The police chief said the officers acted poorly and used unnessary force. There were 45 minutes of body camera footage of this and it sure reflected poorly on the cops. Guess what the Police Union is now tying to protect the cops that acted the fool. That’s what cops do. Protect themselves .-The end result is they don’t police their bad cops .Thats why so many are afraid of cops especially if you are of color.
This plays out everyday in America.
m
<<< Thats why so many are afraid of cops especially if you are of color. >>>
Sorry Mark - I don't believe that in the least. In fact for example when Baltimore cops got hissed off at their mayor constantly badmouthing them about certain things similar to what you mentioned, and so the cops decided to ease up on policing certain inner city areas, the residents then clamored and complained that the police protection had diminished and they wanted it restored back to normal.
Except for the malignant drug dealers and gangs that haunt and terrorize the good people in the inner cities, I doubt if any of these good people for one second are afraid of cops.
Steve, you may doubt that, but you are sorely mistaken. I have many friends at work who are black and hear the narrative Mark described on many, many occasions. The perceptions they share and those that we have based on our experience as white men are markedly different and there really is no debate about that.
<<< The perceptions they share >>>
Tim, you stated the perfect word "perceptions" and as we all know, sometimes if not often, perception may not be reality.
You should know and we all should know because it is fact, that if someone is stopped by the police, if they are obeying the law, and cooperate with the police, they will have no problem with the police whatsoever. If they are not obeying the law, say a traffic violation, if we just basically keep our mouths shut, and accept the ticket without hassling the police officer over it, there will be no further problem. Come on now Tim - you know that, i know that, and we all know that.
This we should all know and we all know that is the root of the problem. It’s bs
What you stated above Is true.......if you are white. If you are black you would laugh at this. I wish what you were wrote were true for all. I think you are being naive.
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Comments
Yes, but winning generally follows with increased revenue from a team standpoint. The league's agenda is to generate revenue, no question about it. I know I've said this before but it doesn't seem to have sunk in, likely because it is at odds with how glicker perceives the way things should be: the NFL raked in more revenue in 2017 than ever before. Anyone who believes the league is in financial trouble in any way shape or form is truly misinformed. Case closed.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I meant that comment in a business sense, not in a constitutional sense.
I unwaveringly believe in our First Amendment.
Yes....I see your stand and that is your right. My point was my group was not hand picked based on the view of this subject.
I realized that there are a lot of people who do not care. I'm just not in that group and don't know anybody personally that is in that group.
Don't take my stand as a knock on yours. We both have the same rights.
I know and that's their right.
Fair enough
And fair enough
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
Indeed
Mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
And I understand and respect yours 100%. Maybe more
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I'm wondering when we will see our first nfl owner in the chow line at a soup kitchen
(besides the guy from indy obviously)
Don't get me going on the FA.
But would the revenue have been higher without the protests? The correct answer is certainly "Yes."
Also, i would have to believe that before the season began, most of the revenue for the season was already locked in with season ticket sales, TV and radio contracts, etc. This upcoming season will be a more interesting test about revenue in my opinion.
For sure, i've never seen so many pics and videos of NFL stands during the games with so many empty seats.
+1 and I think we have found some common ground here..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
who is the wanker responsible for the resurgence of this flustercuck
The very same who initiated this flustercuck of course.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
In a year and a half, I don't see a single opinion changed
Did you expect any changes?
I wonder if that means that we are a smart, educated, knowledgeable group of sports fans who have the courage to stick to our viewpoints...or just a bunch of curmudgeons?
My money is on curmudgeons
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I think one of the few things we'd all agree on is the NFL leadership only cares about their bottom line, not the players, nor the anthem.
He is still moaning over the SB ring that Putin swiped.
In other russia news , bronco snagged a gold 5 rouble at melt today
Might have once been Kraft's ring.
I sincerely hope the Jets Owner gets draft picks taken away from him to go along with the fines. The fact that anyone regardless of who you are thinks it’s ok to protest your political or religious beliefs while you are at work and using national TV as your format blows my mind. If you want to disrespect the flag on your own time then go knock yourself out and have ball just don’t push it on people like me.
https://sports.yahoo.com/report-nfl-owners-not-formally-vote-anthem-rule-185146376.html
Report: NFL owners did not formally vote on anthem rule
It became clear almost immediately after the NFL announced its heavily flawed new national anthem rule on Wednesday that not everyone was on board.
New York Jets chairman Christopher Johnson said he won’t levy any fines or punishment against players who eschew the stay-in-the-locker-room part of the policy and kneel or visibly protest during the anthem, and will pay any fine the team gets for such an action.
Then it came out that San Francisco 49ers owner Jed York abstained from voting.
And on Thursday, ESPN’s Seth Wickersham said on Twitter and “Outside the Lines” that there wasn’t a vote at all, not in the formal sense.
You have it absolutely right perkdog. They are paid to work while they are at work. Protest on your own time.
I wonder how people would react if players decided to protest things like abortion, the wall, gun rights etc before games?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
the game moves in a direction you don't like then find something else to do with your couch potato time.
I stopped watching hockey when I didn't like the way they took fighting out of the game and the scoring went away so every game was 2-1 or 1-0 .
I've about stopped watching baseball because the games are so long and boring.
You waste your time and waste your energy complaining , if you still watch and still spend then thats on you
The way the Jets draft that’s hardly a deterrent
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Bronco, why should I stop watching a game I enjoy because some ignorant spoiled brats want to try and ruin it? I’m not wasting any of my time or energy I’m just stating my opinion.
Why not just skip waching the National Anthem then? Then way you watch the game uneffected. It was never shown before any of this “high drama”.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
TOTALLY AGREE MAN!!!!!
This is just a phase. These disrespectful brats had their little say, and it will pass. Now that they are hit in the pocketbook, and realize that there is significant pushback to their little protest, it will die out. Five years from now this will be just a memory.
I will also not stop watching a game I love just because some disrespectful children wanted something to protest. The game is much bigger than them.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
You don’t know any of this. Your soapbox is duly noted.
Besides I’m sure you will probably be the one to bump the thread in 5 years.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Do you love the game or do you love whining about it? The game isn't bigger than them or anything. Search for meaning elsewhere, the game is mindless entertainment , meaningless it only exists to drain dollars from wallets.
Speaking of things happening during the anthem , make them shut down the concession stands , stop them from grubbing for dollars during it . Doesn't seem respectful to charge someone $12 for a hot dog during the playing of the anthem .
Wanna bet the concessions they do in that 60 seconds would cover the fines if every player knelt every game?
Exactly.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
LOL
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
It's astonishing to me how some on here still don't seem to comprehend the entire picture.
I will boo anyone, repeat anyone, who disrespects our flag and our national athem. I don't care if they are football players or whoever. I certainly am never, repeat never, going to root for anyone who does that, and most definitely am never going to financially support them in any way, shape or form.
And YES, if the entire league players with support of all the owners would disrespect our flag and national athem, then YES I would discontinue watching and supporting NFL football. I will choose my country over some football league anytime and everytime without batting an eye.
All that being said, I agree with those who say let's not allow a small fraction of ignorant players and a few cowardly owners, to destroy the fun and entertainment of the entire NFL for the rest of us. I'm still a big NFL fan and hope to be for a long time.
Mark I don’t watch the anthem, in fact I channel surf when there is a time out, or a long replay ect so trust me I don’t sit there and watch the anthem. However I still have my opinion on the subject and it does not get me in fits one way or another. Btw Let me ask you straight up..are you ok with kneeling for the anthem yes or no? Everyone knows my stance I don’t really know yours.
Steve, I likewise am astonished how some here still don’t seem to comprehend the actual point behind the protesting, or I suspect in some cases don’t want to comprehend because it challenges their deep-seated beliefs and/or prejudices regarding skin color. The manner in which some post confirms their racial bias. They can couch their comments behind Uber-patriotic fervor about love for Flag, Anthem and Country, but y’all ain’t fooling me.
Once again, these protests don’t have a damn thing with the sacred symbols of our great country or disrespect of the military. Once again I will remind those Uber-patriots that it was a Green Beret who suggested that Kaepernick kneel, rather than sit. Once again I will remind anyone who CHOOSES to believe otherwise that the protests are and always have been about police brutality and violence against people of color, nothing more and nothing less. Yet some of y’all CHOOSE to make it into something it is not. Some of y’all CHOOSE to not listen to the words Kaepernick spoke, or give him credit for putting his money where his mouth and knee is. If you do acknowledge it, it’s followed with a condescending “well, it’s not like he’s really giving anything up - he earned millions even though he has no talent”, never mind the fact that so have hundreds and hundreds of other so-called talentless players.
And once again, people of color are targeted by police and even by everyday citizens for simply living while black. Sleeping in a Harvard common room (which the young woman lived in). BBQing in Oakland. Inspecting a home as part of a man’s job. Checking out of an Airbnb but having the audacity to not wave at the white woman across the street. Driving with a tiny piece of vegetation in a man’s car window. That’s just off the top of my head, and just from the past couple of weeks. Those are the ones that made the news. I guaran-damn-tee you that there are hundreds of similar incidents on a weekly basis that don’t make the news and go viral.
Institutional racism. Subtle racism. Keeping your heads in the sand and stubbornly insisting from your white perspective that those don’t exist holds no water with those who believe on a deep, instinctual level that people of all races are created equal. Go ahead and look it up - it’s in our Constitution and everything. I’mma go out on a limb and say straight out that some here don’t really believe that, and that is the real reason some here are upset at the kneelers.
edited for spelling
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
Perk, I've said several times in this thread. I'll sat yet again. No, I don't like the kneeling. However since the NFL allowed the players to peacefully protest I have zero problems with that. That's where Steve loses me. I have have more respect for the First Amendment then I do symbols. That trumps all. I error on that side.
Protests aren't supposed to be comfortable. If you have a grievance what better stage to voice it. Their employers allowed it.
Of course we have mind readers here who try to undermind the protests by knowing what's really in their hearts. That plays to bias. That disgusts me. I respect the peaceful protestors. It's obvious some don't. That's their problem. Not mine.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
To TNP777 and others who believe the players have the right to protest.......I TOTALLY agree. I believe all these injustices mentioned by TNP777 above exist. And YES I believe all men are created equal. We (USA) have a big problem!
My problem is do it (protest) some where else. Don't do it on your job and don't do it during the NA. I have a problem with that and I always will! The owners need to take a stand for what is right and put a stop to all this!
DM. I believe your words to be sincere. Very well put. Dayum that was good.
Just remember one thing. The players employers allowed the players to protest while at work. The players with social grievances took a stand. They are the ones with conviction and back bone. I can admire that.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
And while this doesn't offend some people.......it does offend me a millions of others.
I agree that millions are offended. So the protestors should cave in because some are offended? Taking a stance for what you believe in is often not easy. The right to peacefully protest and exert their First Amendment Rights is what makes our country great.
The protesting players have gone out o their way to say they are not doing this to dishonor the flag or anthem. They are protesting social injustice on the biggest stage they could find.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Geordie - I fully comprehend the point of the kneelers. It's quite simple to understand. However, their viewpoint and your opinion on the matter is simply flat out wrong.
Frankly, the sheer hypocrisy is on the side of the kneelers. How many of them speak out and put in a good effort to do something about the REAL PROBLEM of drugs and gang violence in today's inner cities? Not many of them that I'm aware of.
I have the utmost respect for Jim Brown and others who have spent a lot of time and effort in the inner cities trying to change things for the better.
We are all Americans, and I have stated this for a long time...the continued massive poverty and unequal education for kids in the inner cities is unacceptable. It sickens me when I read stories such as inner city kids not even having textbooks because they are stolen or whatever. I don't care what happened to the textbooks - the kids should have new ones in place immediately. As well as computer access, IE: the same learning opportunity as any kid in the suburbs.
Back to the kneelers...the United States has the strongest civil rights laws in the world and they are rigidly enforced. When there is a bad cop, there are strict laws and punitive remedies in place for criminal behavior from anyone who violates these laws. But to throw all cops under the bus because of a few bad ones, and dissing our flag and national anthem with a false narrative, is both silly and reprehensible.
First off I don't think this problem can be fixed by government and/or laws that the protesters are going after. This problem can only be fixed at home. Haters both black and white and brought up that way. I believe everyone is a product of their environment. Until children of ALL colors are brought up to respect everyone no matter what color we will have this problem. Nobody and I mean NOBODY wants this to happen more that I do.
Good night everyone.
You think they are dissing the flag. They say they are not to a man. They grabbed a platform and used it. To get the word out. You being upset is just a causality in the process. Feelings on both sides and in the middle are all getting dinged up on this one.
There just was a Milwaukee basketball player that got tased and detained for doing nothing. The police chief said the officers acted poorly and used unnessary force. There were 45 minutes of body camera footage of this and it sure reflected poorly on the cops. Guess what the Police Union is now tying to protect the cops that acted the fool. That’s what cops do. Protect themselves .-The end result is they don’t police their bad cops .Thats why so many are afraid of cops especially if you are of color.
This plays out everyday in America.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<<< Thats why so many are afraid of cops especially if you are of color. >>>
Sorry Mark - I don't believe that in the least. In fact for example when Baltimore cops got hissed off at their mayor constantly badmouthing them about certain things similar to what you mentioned, and so the cops decided to ease up on policing certain inner city areas, the residents then clamored and complained that the police protection had diminished and they wanted it restored back to normal.
Except for the malignant drug dealers and gangs that haunt and terrorize the good people in the inner cities, I doubt if any of these good people for one second are afraid of cops.
Steve, you may doubt that, but you are sorely mistaken. I have many friends at work who are black and hear the narrative Mark described on many, many occasions. The perceptions they share and those that we have based on our experience as white men are markedly different and there really is no debate about that.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
The Milwaukee case should open your eyes then. This is exactly why black people are generally afraid of cops. They have every right to be. Black citizens get treated differently then you and I. That’s a fact that I’ve seen over and over again
White people want to believe that black people aren’t afraid of the police. That couldn’t be further from the truth. Walking in a young black mans shoes can get him in trouble for no other reason then being black. Until you have walked in those shoes I’m discounting the white take on it. Couldn’t possibly know
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<<< The perceptions they share >>>
Tim, you stated the perfect word "perceptions" and as we all know, sometimes if not often, perception may not be reality.
You should know and we all should know because it is fact, that if someone is stopped by the police, if they are obeying the law, and cooperate with the police, they will have no problem with the police whatsoever. If they are not obeying the law, say a traffic violation, if we just basically keep our mouths shut, and accept the ticket without hassling the police officer over it, there will be no further problem. Come on now Tim - you know that, i know that, and we all know that.
If someone is stopped by the police or is disobeying the law, AND they cause a disturbance of sorts over it, then there is going to be a further problem. Then the police have every right to escalate the situation accordingly such as further charges or arrest, as it is the law in basically every civilized society on this planet to cooperate with police officers.
This we should all know and we all know that is the root of the problem. It’s bs
What you stated above Is true.......if you are white. If you are black you would laugh at this. I wish what you were wrote were true for all. I think you are being naive.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......