Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Skip to the 3:00 mark. My original discovery coin is showcased by the current owner, Leo Frese. Interestingly, he mentions the 10 known, and also 3 others not reported yet. Leo - if you follow these boards, would love to update the census with condition, even if we put "Owner Unknown"
Coin is at $5,250 + 10% juice with 2-1/2 days to go.
I wonder if having this end during dinner time on Valentine's Day was a good idea?
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Coin is at $5,250 + 10% juice with 2-1/2 days to go.
I wonder if having this end during dinner time on Valentine's Day was a good idea?
Still not at the price point this specific coin has changed hands for twice already, but getting closer. Over a year since the story broke, it's still the top pop straight graded piece (Of only 10 reported) and personally I think it still has a few K left in it bidding-wise.
I'm sure this will get added to a variety set eventually once the CPG guide comes out, and if it hits the Redbook, this coin could be a steal for the future.
Still sitting at $6,500 + 10% juice with 8-1/2 hours to go.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Originally posted by: CaptHenway Still sitting at $6,500 + 10% juice with 8-1/2 hours to go.
The day they listed it, I think I guessed $7800 - just need a few last minute bids and may be close.
It's about at a break-even point right now for the seller, hope it does well. First true auction, so will somewhat set the price scale for a bit I think.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Still sitting at $6,500 + 10% juice with 8-1/2 hours to go.
The day they listed it, I think I guessed $7800 - just need a few last minute bids and may be close.
It's about at a break-even point right now for the seller, hope it does well. First true auction, so will somewhat set the price scale for a bit I think.
Sitting at $7,750 + 10% juice with ten minutes to go.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Originally posted by: CaptHenway Final $8,250 + 10% juice.
$9,075 with buyers premium. I went back and found my post with my guess when it listed, I guessed $7,950 hammer - wasn't too far off.
Knowing what some of them have sold for recently, I think I would revise my initial price guide value if anyone (hint hint: dentuck) cared for the grades we have confirmed pieces of.
G = $2,000 VG = $5,000 VF = $7,500 XF = $9,000
So... did a forum member buy the Great Collections XF40? ;-)
Wow!! I'm impressed. At least the seller was able to make some decent profit off of it. Now we just need to see some more turn up. I wonder who bought the coin?
Knowing what some of them have sold for recently, I think I would revise my initial price guide value if anyone (hint hint: dentuck) cared for the grades we have confirmed pieces of.
G = $2,000
VG = $5,000
VF = $7,500
XF = $9,000
Ouch! for the "G" grade. VF-XF increased 50%, VG increased 25%, and G decreased 33%.
Could you give a little insight as to why your guide went lower on the "G"?
Have there been sells of the G grade around that price?
I felt like your initial guide may have been packed a bit too tight between "G" to "XF" (from 3,000 to 6,000) and there certainly would eventually be a bigger gap. And now there is (2,000-9,000).
But sale prices have typically exceeded most estimates.
And the number of examples, after a year of looking, is much lower than many guesses.
Of course I have skin in the game and my opinion is subjective. And my opinion as to anything coin related would be considered novice at best.
But I'm having fun following the story of the 1919 DDO, and would appreciate your thoughts as to why a lower value on "G".
Not sure where they did their fact checking, but the coin was the 4th discovered/reported, not the 2nd.
We are still at 10 in the census:
1) ANACS VF-20 - Discovery piece (StrikeOutXXX / Jeff Sam) > Leo Frese
2) NCS AU-50 Details - Environmental Problems - Confirmation piece - Own inventory - John Hodson
3) PCGS VG-8 unattributed, then ANACS VG-8, back to PCGS VG-8 Attributed - Bulk over the counter B&M Purchase (KearneyCC / Bjorn Bergstrom) > Leo Frese > Rich Uhrich
4) ANACS EF-40 > PCGS XF-40 - small show Portland, OR (Dealer folder unattributed) - (jtlee321/Justin) > Leo Frese > ? > Great Collections
5) NGC - Good - Owner Unknown
6) NGC - Good - Owner Unknown
7) NGC - Good - Owner Unknown
8) XF - Shown to Rick Snow in Baltimore 7/15
9) AG Details - Damaged - Roll searching, Alan Davis -Cointalk forums
10) Good - 90% merc bag find - Natchez14 - (NGC Message Boards)
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Originally posted by: CaptHenway Any sign of numbers 5, 6 or 7, and especially #8?
5/6/7 Dave Lange reported when they were on his desk (As 3 different specimens) and are the 3 "Goods" in the NGC Pop reports - I have NOT seen them anywhere in public, but they do exist.
#8 I asked Rick a few times to check with that guy as to its status. I trust Rick if he examined it, it just hasn't been sent in to be graded (At least NGC/PCGS) and I haven't seen it listed anywhere, or displayed in the various forums.
I am not sure who this is but someone has a really nice circulated example up on eBay in a no reserve auction: auction link
It doesn't look like any of the examples in the census on this thread. Does anyone know the back story on this coin? Any guesses on the final hammer?
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Very nice and wholesome looking dime. I really dig this variety! I don't think the big auction prices will hold, however. As more are found, I see them settling down but still commanding a nice price. Just not $9k money. My guess for this one $2,500- $3k.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Originally posted by: DIMEMAN I was hoping no one would notice. Sigh.
Good eyes Sean!
The only raw one reported I haven't seen pictures of is the "XF" Example examined by Rick Snow last year, and this certainly isn't that, I'd peg this VG-10, don't think it quite makes F (But then again, I'm not an expert), so I'm calling this #11 for now.
Originally posted by: Realone Think about this, it is the only U.S. coin that he has that isn't in a holder, now that should tell you something. And the few raw stuff he has, and I mean few are raw medals. Even his foreign crap is slabbed.
The seller replied to me, said he is selling it for a friend of his who was going to contact me to give me the discovery story.
I looked at the auction again, think they added pictures to the auction - included was the Coin World article about the Great Collections auction. Not sure if they read this forum, but regarding the story...
The coin auctioned was NOT the 2nd discovered (That was John Hodson's piece currently sitting in an NCS AU-50 Details holder with Environmental Problems). The XF-40 piece sold was the 4th reported.
Also, They had pictures in the article "Courtesy of Great Collections" showing the XF-40 dime auctioned?, but... they used the close-up I sent them of the VF-20 Discovery piece last year 8-)
Originally posted by: keyman64 So, no reply about the pitting problem that I noted above? And some of the auction photos depict another coin? That's really bad! Stay away from this one would be my advice.
Maybe I worded that funny - the Coin World article used my old photo for the story on the sale of the XF-40, the eBay auction just added the photo of the coin world article where I noticed it (Hadn't seen the print edition).
I've seen pictures of all (except the Rick Snow shown XF example) and that is a new one for sure.
So, no reply about the pitting problem that I noted above? And some of the auction photos depict another coin?
That's really bad! Stay away from this one would be my advice.
I believe StrikeOutXXX's comments about the photos refer to the Coin World article, not the auction. There is a prominent scratch just in front of the bust on the auction coin which is clearly visible in all of the photos, including the two close-ups, which indicates to me that all of the pictures are of the coin for sale.
The area in the upper right quadrant of the reverse looks like toing to me rather than pitting. To me if the area were pitted or the surfaces uneven the area would look dark grey, not dark brown. Dark brown spots to me speak to a very old finger print or other toning which has reached the end of the color cycle.
I understand why many here would prefer to purchase a TPG example but I do not have any issues (nor do I consider it a "red flag") that this coin is being offered raw. As a collector who has sold hundreds of variety coins on eBay, both raw and certified, I doubt there was much for the seller to gain by having the coin graded. The coin plainly "is what it is" and at that grade level there will always be questions about whether it would straight grade at a TPG.
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
So, no reply about the pitting problem that I noted above? And some of the auction photos depict another coin?
That's really bad! Stay away from this one would be my advice.
I believe StrikeOutXXX's comments about the photos refer to the Coin World article, not the auction. There is a prominent scratch just in front of the bust on the auction coin which is clearly visible in all of the photos, including the two close-ups, which indicates to me that all of the pictures are of the coin for sale.
The area in the upper right quadrant of the reverse looks like toing to me rather than pitting. To me if the area were pitted or the surfaces uneven the area would look dark grey, not dark brown. Dark brown spots to me speak to a very old finger print or other toning which has reached the end of the color cycle.
I understand why many here would prefer to purchase a TPG example but I do not have any issues (nor do I consider it a "red flag") that this coin is being offered raw. As a collector who has sold hundreds of variety coins on eBay, both raw and certified, I doubt there was much for the seller to gain by having the coin graded. The coin plainly "is what it is" and at that grade level there will always be questions about whether it would straight grade at a TPG.
Sean Reynolds
So, if you were about to spend a couple grand on a raw coin, you would not ask ahead
of time, just to be sure? It is not just "is what it is", even at this grade level. It is either a
details coin or it isn't. For me, a details coin like this might top out at a couple hundred
bucks. This is now over $2K! It looks to me like there is a TON for the seller to gain by
keeping it raw. You do not see this? I'm just saying...if anyone here happens to be
bidding, they should ask the question. Some of those spots do look like toning like you say
but some of them look like they could be pitting. Solely judging the coin by the photos, one
way or the other, would be ignorant. You have to ask the question.
"If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64 Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Originally posted by: Realone Think about this, it is the only U.S. coin that he has that isn't in a holder, now that should tell you something. And the few raw stuff he has, and I mean few are raw medals. Even his foreign crap is slabbed.
The seller replied to me, said he is selling it for a friend of his who was going to contact me to give me the discovery story.
I looked at the auction again, think they added pictures to the auction - included was the Coin World article about the Great Collections auction. Not sure if they read this forum, but regarding the story...
The coin auctioned was NOT the 2nd discovered (That was John Hodson's piece currently sitting in an NCS AU-50 Details holder with Environmental Problems). The XF-40 piece sold was the 4th reported.
Also, They had pictures in the article "Courtesy of Great Collections" showing the XF-40 dime auctioned?, but... they used the close-up I sent them of the VF-20 Discovery piece last year 8-)
CoinWorld contacted me through eBay regarding the XF40 after it sold on GC. They asked if it had been the 2nd coin and I told them no, that is was the 4th, but at the time was the finest known straight graded. So not sure why they still claimed it to be the 2nd example.
Here is what they sent me followed by me reply, I even gave them the link to this thread so they can get all the correct information.
1919 DDO dime The ANACS EF-40 dime that sold for $9,999 in August.
Was that the second example verified by experts or another coin? I'm writing an article for Coin World. An ANACS EF-40 coins, crossed into a PCGS EF-40 holder, sold Feb. 14 by Great Collections for $9,075. Ebay currently has a posting for the ANACS VF-20 discovery piece for $11,550.
Hello,
Thank you for your inquiry. The ANACS EF-40 was the 4th coin discovered. As of now it is the highest straight graded example known. The $9,999 asking price on eBay was mostly for publicity. I sold the coin to Leo Frese in September for $5,250.00 in a private transaction. The discovery piece is as you stated the one that is currently listed on eBay. A very good bit of information on this variety can be found here https://forums.collectors.com/messageview.aspx?catid=26&threadid=937347&highlight_key=y&keyword1=1919+mercury+dime
If you have any other questions, please feel free to call or email me.
So, if you were about to spend a couple grand on a raw coin, you would not ask ahead
of time, just to be sure? It is not just "is what it is", even at this grade level. It is either a
details coin or it isn't. For me, a details coin like this might top out at a couple hundred
bucks. This is now over $2K! It looks to me like there is a TON for the seller to gain by
keeping it raw. You do not see this? I'm just saying...if anyone here happens to be
bidding, they should ask the question. Some of those spots do look like toning like you say
but some of them look like they could be pitting. Solely judging the coin by the photos, one
way or the other, would be ignorant. You have to ask the question.
I understand and respect your point, but you and others on the thread are looking at this auction through the prism of a registry set collector. If you absolutely have to have one in a straight graded TPG holder then yes, before bidding on a raw coin, by all means ask for better pictures and study the surfaces carefully.
However, there are many variety collectors (like error collectors and EAC members) for whom the condition of the coin is a secondary concern versus correct attribution and overall rarity. I have paid multiples above any price guide you can cite for clipped coins for my sets which were corroded, damaged, or harshly cleaned... but they were genuine, coreectly attributed, and legitimately rare, and to me that made them worth every penny.
I believe it is that second kind of collector at which this auction is squarely aimed, and judging from the bids I think they are responding. That is also what I meant when I said the coin "is what it is", to a non-registry collector that coin still pushes all the right buttons.
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
So, no reply about the pitting problem that I noted above? And some of the auction photos depict another coin?
That's really bad! Stay away from this one would be my advice.
I believe StrikeOutXXX's comments about the photos refer to the Coin World article, not the auction. There is a prominent scratch just in front of the bust on the auction coin which is clearly visible in all of the photos, including the two close-ups, which indicates to me that all of the pictures are of the coin for sale.
The area in the upper right quadrant of the reverse looks like toing to me rather than pitting. To me if the area were pitted or the surfaces uneven the area would look dark grey, not dark brown. Dark brown spots to me speak to a very old finger print or other toning which has reached the end of the color cycle.
I understand why many here would prefer to purchase a TPG example but I do not have any issues (nor do I consider it a "red flag") that this coin is being offered raw. As a collector who has sold hundreds of variety coins on eBay, both raw and certified, I doubt there was much for the seller to gain by having the coin graded. The coin plainly "is what it is" and at that grade level there will always be questions about whether it would straight grade at a TPG.
Sean Reynolds
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
So, no reply about the pitting problem that I noted above? And some of the auction photos depict another coin?
That's really bad! Stay away from this one would be my advice.
I believe StrikeOutXXX's comments about the photos refer to the Coin World article, not the auction. There is a prominent scratch just in front of the bust on the auction coin which is clearly visible in all of the photos, including the two close-ups, which indicates to me that all of the pictures are of the coin for sale.
The area in the upper right quadrant of the reverse looks like toing to me rather than pitting. To me if the area were pitted or the surfaces uneven the area would look dark grey, not dark brown. Dark brown spots to me speak to a very old finger print or other toning which has reached the end of the color cycle.
I understand why many here would prefer to purchase a TPG example but I do not have any issues (nor do I consider it a "red flag") that this coin is being offered raw. As a collector who has sold hundreds of variety coins on eBay, both raw and certified, I doubt there was much for the seller to gain by having the coin graded. The coin plainly "is what it is" and at that grade level there will always be questions about whether it would straight grade at a TPG.
Sean Reynolds
So, if you were about to spend a couple grand on a raw coin, you would not ask ahead
of time, just to be sure? It is not just "is what it is", even at this grade level. It is either a
details coin or it isn't. For me, a details coin like this might top out at a couple hundred
bucks. This is now over $2K! It looks to me like there is a TON for the seller to gain by
keeping it raw. You do not see this? I'm just saying...if anyone here happens to be
bidding, they should ask the question. Some of those spots do look like toning like you say
but some of them look like they could be pitting. Solely judging the coin by the photos, one
way or the other, would be ignorant. You have to ask the question.
I bid a lot more than a couple hundred bucks for this piece. Got any you want to sell at that level?
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
As a former Merc Complete Variety Reg Set builder that had half the varieties in Top Pop and the remaining examples close, I would consider a details example to be complete junk. I'd like to also think that I understand the market better than most considering I also auctioned off all of my coins, including the top pops that generally went for moon money. If a person is not interested in protecting themselves from details graded material, to each their own I guess.
And yes, I have sold many Merc Variety spares of mine that I have Cherrypicked for very cheap to friends in the past. Some were even tied top pops but most were not. Had this coin been mine, I would have put it in plastic first so that I could not only protect myself as a seller but to also protect the buyer, generating a truly fair result.
No, I do not currently have an example of this variety. Will I ever? Time will tell. I can say that I have searched for a specific Merc variety for 5 years prior to locating the stand alone top pop and only known mint state example.
"If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64 Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
As a former Merc Complete Variety Reg Set builder that had half the varieties in Top Pop and the remaining examples close, I would consider a details example to be complete junk. I'd like to also think that I understand the market better than most considering I also auctioned off all of my coins, including the top pops that generally went for moon money. If a person is not interested in protecting themselves from details graded material, to each their own I guess.
This basically confirms what I said in my last post, that you are looking at this auction through the eyes of a top registry set builder. This seller - and his bidders - do not play in the same sandbox as you.
I withdraw my offense at the laughing avatar, now that I know the spirit in which it was posted. .
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
I can see both Sean and Greg's side of this discussion. Being a complete variety collector I kind of fall into Sean's example of a collector. Like Greg mentioned I do have several Geniune dimes in my set. BUT....most if not all are the only one's known and I picked them for very little money and I always continue looking for better examples and I don't think any are Mercs. Most are Seated or Barber. I have hundreds of varieties that are not even in the PCGS sets. I am currently actively buy dime varieties with the hope that when the new CPG comes out I will have most if not all of the new varieties. Even if they don't make the CPG and go into the PCGS sets I continue to collect them and put them into my Showcase of varieties not in PCGS set yet set.
In the case of this 1919 DDO it is past what I think it is worth.....at least to me. I may or may not pick one in the future.....who knows.
I do think more will be found and the prices will come down on this variety.......but again who knows.
It's all for fun and the thrill of the hunt. I look at probably 2,000 coins a day on ebay and other sites......so I am always having fun.
Perfection is greatly overrated. My first wife had diabetes and epilepsy when I met her, and I knew that the chances of a long marriage were slim, but I loved her and took her as she was.
This is merely a coin. Try to keep some perspective here.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
The eBay auction closes this evening and I noticed this morning that the high bidder all week must have withdrawn his bid. The auction was up to $2200 late this week but this morning it was back down to $2025. Any predictions for the final hammer? Not the best plan to end the auction on Easter but with the prevalence of sniping services I don't think that will hold down the price at all.
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Comments
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xo1Wzha2S4E
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
Bidding ends February 14th.
I'm the current high bidder.
Go big or go home!
http://www.greatcollections.co...-DDO-FS-101-PCGS-XF-40
Coin is at $5,250 + 10% juice with 2-1/2 days to go.
I wonder if having this end during dinner time on Valentine's Day was a good idea?
Bidding ends February 14th.
I'm the current high bidder.
Go big or go home!
http://www.greatcollections.co...-DDO-FS-101-PCGS-XF-40
Coin is at $5,250 + 10% juice with 2-1/2 days to go.
I wonder if having this end during dinner time on Valentine's Day was a good idea?
Still not at the price point this specific coin has changed hands for twice already, but getting closer. Over a year since the story broke, it's still the top pop straight graded piece (Of only 10 reported) and personally I think it still has a few K left in it bidding-wise.
I'm sure this will get added to a variety set eventually once the CPG guide comes out, and if it hits the Redbook, this coin could be a steal for the future.
Time will tell.
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
Bidding ends February 14th.
I'm the current high bidder.
Go big or go home!
http://www.greatcollections.co...-DDO-FS-101-PCGS-XF-40
Coin is at $5,250 + 10% juice with 2-1/2 days to go.
I wonder if having this end during dinner time on Valentine's Day was a good idea?
Nah I doubt it will have much effect, eating, Bidding same thing.
I don't think it will hit 5 figures...but will it?
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Still sitting at $6,500 + 10% juice with 8-1/2 hours to go.
The day they listed it, I think I guessed $7800 - just need a few last minute bids and may be close.
It's about at a break-even point right now for the seller, hope it does well. First true auction, so will somewhat set the price scale for a bit I think.
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
Still sitting at $6,500 + 10% juice with 8-1/2 hours to go.
The day they listed it, I think I guessed $7800 - just need a few last minute bids and may be close.
It's about at a break-even point right now for the seller, hope it does well. First true auction, so will somewhat set the price scale for a bit I think.
Sitting at $7,750 + 10% juice with ten minutes to go.
Successful transactions with Schmitz7, Bigbuck1975, chumley, CCHunter, Smittys, Gerard, Tookybandit, MorganMan94, LogPotato, coinlieutenant, GoldCoin98, pcgs69, Kccoin, ajaan, JBN, BLee23,....
Final $8,250 + 10% juice.
$9,075 with buyers premium. I went back and found my post with my guess when it listed, I guessed $7,950 hammer - wasn't too far off.
Knowing what some of them have sold for recently, I think I would revise my initial price guide value if anyone (hint hint: dentuck) cared for the grades we have confirmed pieces of.
G = $2,000
VG = $5,000
VF = $7,500
XF = $9,000
So... did a forum member buy the Great Collections XF40? ;-)
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
Good showing for sure. And no, I did not make the purchase.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
Final $8,250 + 10% juice.
Knowing what some of them have sold for recently, I think I would revise my initial price guide value if anyone (hint hint: dentuck) cared for the grades we have confirmed pieces of.
G = $2,000
VG = $5,000
VF = $7,500
XF = $9,000
Ouch! for the "G" grade. VF-XF increased 50%, VG increased 25%, and G decreased 33%.
Could you give a little insight as to why your guide went lower on the "G"?
Have there been sells of the G grade around that price?
I felt like your initial guide may have been packed a bit too tight between "G" to "XF" (from 3,000 to 6,000) and there certainly would eventually be a bigger gap. And now there is (2,000-9,000).
But sale prices have typically exceeded most estimates.
And the number of examples, after a year of looking, is much lower than many guesses.
Of course I have skin in the game and my opinion is subjective. And my opinion as to anything coin related would be considered novice at best.
But I'm having fun following the story of the 1919 DDO, and would appreciate your thoughts as to why a lower value on "G".
Successful transactions with Schmitz7, Bigbuck1975, chumley, CCHunter, Smittys, Gerard, Tookybandit, MorganMan94, LogPotato, coinlieutenant, GoldCoin98, pcgs69, Kccoin, ajaan, JBN, BLee23,....
Coin World Article on the Great Collections sale
Not sure where they did their fact checking, but the coin was the 4th discovered/reported, not the 2nd.
We are still at 10 in the census:
1) ANACS VF-20 - Discovery piece (StrikeOutXXX / Jeff Sam) > Leo Frese
2) NCS AU-50 Details - Environmental Problems - Confirmation piece - Own inventory - John Hodson
3) PCGS VG-8 unattributed, then ANACS VG-8, back to PCGS VG-8 Attributed - Bulk over the counter B&M Purchase (KearneyCC / Bjorn Bergstrom) > Leo Frese > Rich Uhrich
4) ANACS EF-40 > PCGS XF-40 - small show Portland, OR (Dealer folder unattributed) - (jtlee321/Justin) > Leo Frese > ? > Great Collections
5) NGC - Good - Owner Unknown
6) NGC - Good - Owner Unknown
7) NGC - Good - Owner Unknown
8) XF - Shown to Rick Snow in Baltimore 7/15
9) AG Details - Damaged - Roll searching, Alan Davis -Cointalk forums
10) Good - 90% merc bag find - Natchez14 - (NGC Message Boards)
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
Any sign of numbers 5, 6 or 7, and especially #8?
5/6/7 Dave Lange reported when they were on his desk (As 3 different specimens) and are the 3 "Goods" in the NGC Pop reports - I have NOT seen them anywhere in public, but they do exist.
#8 I asked Rick a few times to check with that guy as to its status. I trust Rick if he examined it, it just hasn't been sent in to be graded (At least NGC/PCGS) and I haven't seen it listed anywhere, or displayed in the various forums.
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
Remembered and looked at about 5 circulated 1919 Mercs.
I'm not a variety collector but I did notice the anticipation every time I louped into one.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
It doesn't look like any of the examples in the census on this thread. Does anyone know the back story on this coin? Any guesses on the final hammer?
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Check out my iPhone app SlabReader!
Just not $9k money.
My guess for this one $2,500- $3k.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
I was hoping no one would notice. Sigh.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
I was hoping no one would notice. Sigh.
Good eyes Sean!
The only raw one reported I haven't seen pictures of is the "XF" Example examined by Rick Snow last year, and this certainly isn't that, I'd peg this VG-10, don't think it quite makes F (But then again, I'm not an expert), so I'm calling this #11 for now.
Currently on eBay here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-DI...598:g:4KcAAOSwwpdW63Oi
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
Does anyone know if all of the ones found so far have the same slight die rotation of the rev?
I believe they all have this trait, although I haven't seen pics of that raw XF Rick Snow examined.
I think 2 of the 11 display the die cracks on the OBV & REV that CONECA calls Stage B/Middle Die State.
Die Cracks can be see on CONECAs page here: http://varietyvista.com/06%20M...20Dime/1919PDDO001.htm
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
Attempting to grade it is not really necessary. Technically, it is in the VG-8 realm....but
here again, that means little here. PCGS Photograde will likely send most people in that
direction as well, based on memory. Seeing a potentially expensive coin like this raw is a
slight red flag. If you notice, there is a larger photo of the obverse but not the reverse,
although you can mouse over the smaller reverse in-2x2 photo and get the same sized
reverse photo. An ever so slight red flag. Thankfully, there is a return policy from a seller
that seems reputable. Considering this seller deals in sooo many slabbed coins but has this
one raw is not the best of warm feelings. There are a few obverse hits but no show
stoppers for the grade that would cause a genuine grade..or at least I have seen worse
make it into graded holders. The major problem comes when you closely examine the
reverse of the coin in the field, above E Pluribus Unum. Judging from the photos alone,
which we know is not the best of ideas but it is all we have, I think I see a lot of pitting in the
metal. That is environmental damage as far as I can tell. That would cause the coin to go
genuine if it went to PCGS (or other TPG), in my opinion. This might be the real reason
why the coin is raw? There are no notes of a problem provided in the description.
In my opinion, bidding has gone too high for a VG Details example. If a person happens to
be a bidder, they might want to send the seller a direct question, asking if there is pitting
on the coin. It would be interesting if the seller posts the answer on eBay. Or if the coin
sells, it will be interesting if it gets returned or never added to the pops at TPGs.
Hopefully this helps someone. My 10 cents on the matter.
Again, my opinion only.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Think about this, it is the only U.S. coin that he has that isn't in a holder, now that should tell you something. And the few raw stuff he has, and I mean few are raw medals. Even his foreign crap is slabbed.
The seller replied to me, said he is selling it for a friend of his who was going to contact me to give me the discovery story.
I looked at the auction again, think they added pictures to the auction - included was the Coin World article about the Great Collections auction. Not sure if they read this forum, but regarding the story...
The coin auctioned was NOT the 2nd discovered (That was John Hodson's piece currently sitting in an NCS AU-50 Details holder with Environmental Problems). The XF-40 piece sold was the 4th reported.
Also, They had pictures in the article "Courtesy of Great Collections" showing the XF-40 dime auctioned?, but... they used the close-up I sent them of the VF-20 Discovery piece last year 8-)
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
That's really bad! Stay away from this one would be my advice.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
So, no reply about the pitting problem that I noted above? And some of the auction photos depict another coin?
That's really bad! Stay away from this one would be my advice.
Maybe I worded that funny - the Coin World article used my old photo for the story on the sale of the XF-40, the eBay auction just added the photo of the coin world article where I noticed it (Hadn't seen the print edition).
I've seen pictures of all (except the Rick Snow shown XF example) and that is a new one for sure.
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
So, no reply about the pitting problem that I noted above? And some of the auction photos depict another coin?
That's really bad! Stay away from this one would be my advice.
I believe StrikeOutXXX's comments about the photos refer to the Coin World article, not the auction. There is a prominent scratch just in front of the bust on the auction coin which is clearly visible in all of the photos, including the two close-ups, which indicates to me that all of the pictures are of the coin for sale.
The area in the upper right quadrant of the reverse looks like toing to me rather than pitting. To me if the area were pitted or the surfaces uneven the area would look dark grey, not dark brown. Dark brown spots to me speak to a very old finger print or other toning which has reached the end of the color cycle.
I understand why many here would prefer to purchase a TPG example but I do not have any issues (nor do I consider it a "red flag") that this coin is being offered raw. As a collector who has sold hundreds of variety coins on eBay, both raw and certified, I doubt there was much for the seller to gain by having the coin graded. The coin plainly "is what it is" and at that grade level there will always be questions about whether it would straight grade at a TPG.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
So, no reply about the pitting problem that I noted above? And some of the auction photos depict another coin?
That's really bad! Stay away from this one would be my advice.
I believe StrikeOutXXX's comments about the photos refer to the Coin World article, not the auction. There is a prominent scratch just in front of the bust on the auction coin which is clearly visible in all of the photos, including the two close-ups, which indicates to me that all of the pictures are of the coin for sale.
The area in the upper right quadrant of the reverse looks like toing to me rather than pitting. To me if the area were pitted or the surfaces uneven the area would look dark grey, not dark brown. Dark brown spots to me speak to a very old finger print or other toning which has reached the end of the color cycle.
I understand why many here would prefer to purchase a TPG example but I do not have any issues (nor do I consider it a "red flag") that this coin is being offered raw. As a collector who has sold hundreds of variety coins on eBay, both raw and certified, I doubt there was much for the seller to gain by having the coin graded. The coin plainly "is what it is" and at that grade level there will always be questions about whether it would straight grade at a TPG.
Sean Reynolds
of time, just to be sure? It is not just "is what it is", even at this grade level. It is either a
details coin or it isn't. For me, a details coin like this might top out at a couple hundred
bucks. This is now over $2K! It looks to me like there is a TON for the seller to gain by
keeping it raw. You do not see this? I'm just saying...if anyone here happens to be
bidding, they should ask the question. Some of those spots do look like toning like you say
but some of them look like they could be pitting. Solely judging the coin by the photos, one
way or the other, would be ignorant. You have to ask the question.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Think about this, it is the only U.S. coin that he has that isn't in a holder, now that should tell you something. And the few raw stuff he has, and I mean few are raw medals. Even his foreign crap is slabbed.
The seller replied to me, said he is selling it for a friend of his who was going to contact me to give me the discovery story.
I looked at the auction again, think they added pictures to the auction - included was the Coin World article about the Great Collections auction. Not sure if they read this forum, but regarding the story...
The coin auctioned was NOT the 2nd discovered (That was John Hodson's piece currently sitting in an NCS AU-50 Details holder with Environmental Problems). The XF-40 piece sold was the 4th reported.
Also, They had pictures in the article "Courtesy of Great Collections" showing the XF-40 dime auctioned?, but... they used the close-up I sent them of the VF-20 Discovery piece last year 8-)
CoinWorld contacted me through eBay regarding the XF40 after it sold on GC. They asked if it had been the 2nd coin and I told them no, that is was the 4th, but at the time was the finest known straight graded. So not sure why they still claimed it to be the 2nd example.
Here is what they sent me followed by me reply, I even gave them the link to this thread so they can get all the correct information.
The ANACS EF-40 dime that sold for $9,999 in August.
Was that the second example verified by experts or another coin? I'm writing an article for Coin World. An ANACS EF-40 coins, crossed into a PCGS EF-40 holder, sold Feb. 14 by Great Collections for $9,075. Ebay currently has a posting for the ANACS VF-20 discovery piece for $11,550.
Thank you for your inquiry. The ANACS EF-40 was the 4th coin discovered. As of now it is the highest straight graded example known. The $9,999 asking price on eBay was mostly for publicity. I sold the coin to Leo Frese in September for $5,250.00 in a private transaction. The discovery piece is as you stated the one that is currently listed on eBay. A very good bit of information on this variety can be found here https://forums.collectors.com/messageview.aspx?catid=26&threadid=937347&highlight_key=y&keyword1=1919+mercury+dime
If you have any other questions, please feel free to call or email me.
So, if you were about to spend a couple grand on a raw coin, you would not ask ahead
of time, just to be sure? It is not just "is what it is", even at this grade level. It is either a
details coin or it isn't. For me, a details coin like this might top out at a couple hundred
bucks. This is now over $2K! It looks to me like there is a TON for the seller to gain by
keeping it raw. You do not see this? I'm just saying...if anyone here happens to be
bidding, they should ask the question. Some of those spots do look like toning like you say
but some of them look like they could be pitting. Solely judging the coin by the photos, one
way or the other, would be ignorant. You have to ask the question.
I understand and respect your point, but you and others on the thread are looking at this auction through the prism of a registry set collector. If you absolutely have to have one in a straight graded TPG holder then yes, before bidding on a raw coin, by all means ask for better pictures and study the surfaces carefully.
However, there are many variety collectors (like error collectors and EAC members) for whom the condition of the coin is a secondary concern versus correct attribution and overall rarity. I have paid multiples above any price guide you can cite for clipped coins for my sets which were corroded, damaged, or harshly cleaned... but they were genuine, coreectly attributed, and legitimately rare, and to me that made them worth every penny.
I believe it is that second kind of collector at which this auction is squarely aimed, and judging from the bids I think they are responding. That is also what I meant when I said the coin "is what it is", to a non-registry collector that coin still pushes all the right buttons.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
So, no reply about the pitting problem that I noted above? And some of the auction photos depict another coin?
That's really bad! Stay away from this one would be my advice.
I believe StrikeOutXXX's comments about the photos refer to the Coin World article, not the auction. There is a prominent scratch just in front of the bust on the auction coin which is clearly visible in all of the photos, including the two close-ups, which indicates to me that all of the pictures are of the coin for sale.
The area in the upper right quadrant of the reverse looks like toing to me rather than pitting. To me if the area were pitted or the surfaces uneven the area would look dark grey, not dark brown. Dark brown spots to me speak to a very old finger print or other toning which has reached the end of the color cycle.
I understand why many here would prefer to purchase a TPG example but I do not have any issues (nor do I consider it a "red flag") that this coin is being offered raw. As a collector who has sold hundreds of variety coins on eBay, both raw and certified, I doubt there was much for the seller to gain by having the coin graded. The coin plainly "is what it is" and at that grade level there will always be questions about whether it would straight grade at a TPG.
Sean Reynolds
So, no reply about the pitting problem that I noted above? And some of the auction photos depict another coin?
That's really bad! Stay away from this one would be my advice.
I believe StrikeOutXXX's comments about the photos refer to the Coin World article, not the auction. There is a prominent scratch just in front of the bust on the auction coin which is clearly visible in all of the photos, including the two close-ups, which indicates to me that all of the pictures are of the coin for sale.
The area in the upper right quadrant of the reverse looks like toing to me rather than pitting. To me if the area were pitted or the surfaces uneven the area would look dark grey, not dark brown. Dark brown spots to me speak to a very old finger print or other toning which has reached the end of the color cycle.
I understand why many here would prefer to purchase a TPG example but I do not have any issues (nor do I consider it a "red flag") that this coin is being offered raw. As a collector who has sold hundreds of variety coins on eBay, both raw and certified, I doubt there was much for the seller to gain by having the coin graded. The coin plainly "is what it is" and at that grade level there will always be questions about whether it would straight grade at a TPG.
Sean Reynolds
of time, just to be sure? It is not just "is what it is", even at this grade level. It is either a
details coin or it isn't. For me, a details coin like this might top out at a couple hundred
bucks. This is now over $2K! It looks to me like there is a TON for the seller to gain by
keeping it raw. You do not see this? I'm just saying...if anyone here happens to be
bidding, they should ask the question. Some of those spots do look like toning like you say
but some of them look like they could be pitting. Solely judging the coin by the photos, one
way or the other, would be ignorant. You have to ask the question.
I bid a lot more than a couple hundred bucks for this piece. Got any you want to sell at that level?
TD
As a former Merc Complete Variety Reg Set builder that had half the varieties in Top Pop and the remaining examples close, I would consider a details example to be complete junk. I'd like to also think that I understand the market better than most considering I also auctioned off all of my coins, including the top pops that generally went for moon money. If a person is not interested in protecting themselves from details graded material, to each their own I guess.
And yes, I have sold many Merc Variety spares of mine that I have Cherrypicked for very cheap to friends in the past. Some were even tied top pops but most were not. Had this coin been mine, I would have put it in plastic first so that I could not only protect myself as a seller but to also protect the buyer, generating a truly fair result.
No, I do not currently have an example of this variety. Will I ever? Time will tell. I can say that I have searched for a specific Merc variety for 5 years prior to locating the stand alone top pop and only known mint state example.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
As a former Merc Complete Variety Reg Set builder that had half the varieties in Top Pop and the remaining examples close, I would consider a details example to be complete junk. I'd like to also think that I understand the market better than most considering I also auctioned off all of my coins, including the top pops that generally went for moon money. If a person is not interested in protecting themselves from details graded material, to each their own I guess.
This basically confirms what I said in my last post, that you are looking at this auction through the eyes of a top registry set builder. This seller - and his bidders - do not play in the same sandbox as you.
I withdraw my offense at the laughing avatar, now that I know the spirit in which it was posted.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
without the concern of it being damaged is just completely foreign to me. I do not understand it. Many people
will laugh when they do not understand something. It is not an uncommon practice. I do not claim to know
everything. I have heard of many collectors of ancients, tokens, very rare items etc...buying an example of
whatever they seek, even paying high prices to get ANY example they can....but never a Mercury Dime! This idea
is just very foreign to me. I truly believe that other examples will be found. DIMEMAN is a registry set builder
and is one of the BIGGEST DIME VARIETY COLLECTORS in existence. He even considered bidding on this coin. He
does have some genuine/details dime varieties in his set but most of those he found raw or cherrypicked etc. His goals
are to have an example of every dime and he will go with a genuine/details example when necessary but he has
even considered the price of this coin to be much too high with the looming possibility of it not making it into a
proper PCGS holder. If it could grade cleanly at VG, the price is not far off give or take. I guess I am a little more
risk adverse than some because I see the value of a details example in the hundreds realm, not thousands. I have
never had the disposable income to just toss around on genuine coins I guess. This does show that there are
different types of variety collectors within the registry. I went for top pops. Others go for completeness as the primary
goal...but even they have their limitations when it comes to the risk of genuine examples. As for myself, coming from the
top pop background, I would be thrilled to have an example in the VG range and not care about top pop...but
genuine stuff has never been for me.
Maybe I am wrong? I do not discount that possibility! People can feel free to laugh at me if they like, if not this situation.
It takes a lot for me to become offended. Some people are just sensitive and that's okay. Maybe this will be the last
example ever found and maybe it will be worth $20K+ in time....but based on my experience, I doubt it.
Again, I have zero intent on offending anyone. There is a lot of experience in this thread. Maybe it is my lack of understanding
and goal of providing a bit of lighthearted levity to the discussion. Clearly, that did not go over well. Nothing I can
really do about that but hopefully explain my intent.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Like Greg mentioned I do have several Geniune dimes in my set. BUT....most if not all are the only one's known and I picked them for
very little money and I always continue looking for better examples and I don't think any are Mercs. Most are Seated or Barber.
I have hundreds of varieties that are not even in the PCGS sets. I am currently
actively buy dime varieties with the hope that when the new CPG comes out I will have most if not all of the new varieties. Even if they don't make the CPG
and go into the PCGS sets I continue to collect them and put them into my Showcase of varieties not in PCGS set yet set.
In the case of this 1919 DDO it is past what I think it is worth.....at least to me. I may or may not pick one in the future.....who knows.
I do think more will be found and the prices will come down on this variety.......but again who knows.
It's all for fun and the thrill of the hunt. I look at probably 2,000 coins a day on ebay and other sites......so I am always having fun.
This is merely a coin. Try to keep some perspective here.
TD
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
I wonder if the high bidder got a message back about pitting after reading this thread?
It is interesting to see the bids go DOWN on the last day of a popular auction. Lol
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.