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1919 Mercury Dime - CONFIRMED: DDO Discovery Piece (Census in 1st post)

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  • DCWDCW Posts: 7,293 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Much better pics! Great new variety here, and a good opportunity to get people searching and interested in the error/variety niche of the hobby

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sorry about all those duplicate posts. System problems I guess.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,118 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Sorry about all those duplicate posts. System problems I guess. >>



    The thread has entered that annoying twilight zone problem whereby several postings are not recognized, causing the computer to not show the last page. You posted and did not see your posts on the invisible page, so you posted again.
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
    By the way, great pictures!
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • jtlee321, Congrats on the find and Great photosimage
  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,506 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have sad news! I went to a small but very nice show today, looked about close to a dozen 1919 Mercs and was unable to find a DDO.
    Maybe at a show next month? At least I tried.

    image
    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners. :smile:
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    >>>In my opinion this only raises prices. With only 3 known it was an oddity. With 7 it is about 8-15 finds away from becoming collectable.<<<

    I totally disagree with this statement. I have been buying and selling Mercury varieties for years and have found just the opposite to be true.

    There are only a few of us collecting these and the market is saturated very fast. I had one person reply (when I offered $500 for a vg) that he would pay 500 for the first 1,000 coins. Believe me if I had a 1,000 of them they would be his in a New York second!

    I'm not sure one is worth $500 really.
  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,506 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>>>>In my opinion this only raises prices. With only 3 known it was an oddity. With 7 it is about 8-15 finds away from becoming collectable.<<<

    I totally disagree with this statement. I have been buying and selling Mercury varieties for years and have found just the opposite to be true.

    There are only a few of us collecting these and the market is saturated very fast. I had one person reply (when I offered $500 for a vg) that he would pay 500 for the first 1,000 coins. Believe me if I had a 1,000 of them they would be his in a New York second!

    I'm not sure one is worth $500 really. >>

    This coin is a little different though! If it shows up in the RedBook then there there is a chance for it to show up in the Mercury Dime Major Varieties Registry Set. With only 3, many of those folks might just dismiss the coin. But with close to 10 examples, the Registry Set Players will be like sharks really going after it so that their Registry Set maintains a high rank.

    If it gets left out of the Mercury Dime Major Variety Registry Set then I might be inclined to agree with you. It will be a lot of fun to see how this all plays out over the next couple of years.
    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners. :smile:
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,118 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>>>>In my opinion this only raises prices. With only 3 known it was an oddity. With 7 it is about 8-15 finds away from becoming collectable.<<<

    I totally disagree with this statement. I have been buying and selling Mercury varieties for years and have found just the opposite to be true.

    There are only a few of us collecting these and the market is saturated very fast. I had one person reply (when I offered $500 for a vg) that he would pay 500 for the first 1,000 coins. Believe me if I had a 1,000 of them they would be his in a New York second!

    I'm not sure one is worth $500 really. >>



    OK, but at this point in time you are a buyer. Let's say that a week from now you own TWO no problem PCGS VG-8's. What would you sell the duplicate at?

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    >>>OK, but at this point in time you are a buyer. Let's say that a week from now you own TWO no problem PCGS VG-8's. What would you sell the duplicate at?<<<

    I would sell it for what I paid for it.......IF I could get it.
  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Sorry about all those duplicate posts. System problems I guess. >>



    The thread has entered that annoying twilight zone problem whereby several postings are not recognized, causing the computer to not show the last page. You posted and did not see your posts on the invisible page, so you posted again. >>



    Thanks for the explanation. I'm glad it wasn't entirely me.
  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Everything seem to be driven by the registry any more. This has made many what should be affordable varieties no longer affordable for the average collector. That to me is a shame.
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree with koneykwest......there is too much greed. There is no way these coins are worth the numbers some are saying. Like I have mentioned before there are only a few of us buying these varieties. I don't really know the buying habits of the 2 guys ahead of me in the Mercury Complete Variety Set. But I do know the guy ahead of me in the Roosie Complete Variety FB set who is putting together the "All Mighty Dimes" set and he will not pay moon money for any variety.

    I treat people as I want to be treated. Case in point. I had been looking for a certain Roosie variety for several years. Finally found 2. Keep 1 for my set (66FB) and sold the other (65FB) to another collector in the series for $300. I thought that was a fair price considering how much time and effort was put into it. This is what I would have liked to get one for if I had to buy one. The pops on this variety are about the same as the 1919 DDO. I was quoted $7500 for a VG 1919 DDO......how much would that make my Roosie worth?
  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,506 ✭✭✭✭✭
    As I indicated before, if this gets added to the Red Book and the Merc Major Varieties Registry Set, prices will go through the roof due to the additional demand. If it ONLY gets added to the Complete Variety Registry Set then prices will be held down for sure since that will hold down the demand.

    My 10 cents on the matter. image
    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners. :smile:
  • jtlee321jtlee321 Posts: 2,363 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thank you for the compliments on the photo's. I'm finding it a niche to get into. I make a living as a sports photographer and nature photography is my hobby. I've really been enjoying photographing my own coins. I'd like to eventually start doing it as a side business.

    I have been to several shops around my neck of the woods. Nothing else has popped up around here. I can't even locate any 1919 Merc's in XF or better condition. They all have been in the VF and well under.
  • jtlee321jtlee321 Posts: 2,363 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I just checked NGC's pop report on the 1919 DDO's. It has been updated and it looks like the 3 examples that were submitted graded as G.
  • seanqseanq Posts: 8,651 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I just checked NGC's pop report on the 1919 DDO's. It has been updated and it looks like the 3 examples that were submitted graded as G. >>




    I'm happy for whoever discovered those, but if I find out they came from a solid date roll on eBay I may jump out a window. I bought three solid date rolls there and found nothing, and when one more from the same seller came up a fwe weeks ago I decided not to gamble again. If it turns out that roll had three examples in it, I may need to be medicated.

    I've been meaning to comment on the sample found with the prominent die crack. First of all this is excellent news for anyone who wishes to own an example, as it means the die was in use for an extended period of time. Even the doubling on IN GOD shows signs of weakening from die fatigue, another great indicator of a long life. The die crack and the strong doubling on the ST of TRUST that remain in the later die states will help eBay cherrypickers like me identify examples even from lousy pictures. I have picked major doubled dies from only seeing die markers like that crack, and that is one you can see an aisle away.


    Sean Reynolds
    Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.

    "Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
  • jtlee321jtlee321 Posts: 2,363 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I too have been scouring eBay. I'm sure that there are several people from all of the various forums who are aware of and interested in this variety who are actively watching eBay. It surely will be a fun hunt.

    FYI, the example with the die crack is mine. So far, it remains to be unique among the found examples. I would really love to see photo's of the 3 that went through NGC. It would be nice to amass a collection of images of all known examples as they become available.
  • StrikeOutXXXStrikeOutXXX Posts: 3,352 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I just checked NGC's pop report on the 1919 DDO's. It has been updated and it looks like the 3 examples that were submitted graded as G. >>



    Not sure if anyone ever goes back and looks at the first post - I put links to the various articles as they came out, and at the bottom had been keeping a census. I'll likely stop once it hits a dozen or so and just rely on pop reports, but that I know of ATM:

    1) ANACS VF20 - Discovery piece (StrikeOutXXX / Jeff Sam)
    2) XF Details/Cleaned? - Confirmation piece - Own inventory - John Hodson
    3) PCGS VG-8 then ANACS VG-8, heading back to PCGS for Attribution - Bulk over the counter B&M Purchase (KearneyCC / Bjorn Bergstrom)
    4) High VF? - Raw small show Portland, OR (Dealer folder unattributed) - jtlee321/Justin
    5) NGC - Good - Owner Unknown
    6) NGC - Good - Owner Unknown
    7) NGC - Good - Owner Unknown
    8) GET TO CHERRYPICKING!!!
    9)
    10)
    11)
    12)
    ------------------------------------------------------------

    "You Suck Award" - February, 2015

    Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,506 ✭✭✭✭✭
    t2000 ATS just posted that he has TWO of them raw, close to F-12 condition. No photos though.
    This would get the known pops up to 9!
    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners. :smile:
  • StrikeOutXXXStrikeOutXXX Posts: 3,352 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>t2000 ATS just posted that he has TWO of them raw, close to F-12 condition. No photos though.
    This would get the known pops up to 9! >>



    Sweet - 1 more and I win a million dollars from a forumite who bet me $1M that 10 of these would never be found hehe.

    I originally guessed a dozen after a month I think, has taken a bit longer than I thought, but it is nice to see more of these coming to light.

    And... as I've said a dozen times - I REALLY want to see what an MS example looks like - hopefully soon.
    ------------------------------------------------------------

    "You Suck Award" - February, 2015

    Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I still think this is going to be a pretty rare variety.
  • This content has been removed.
  • jtlee321jtlee321 Posts: 2,363 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wow.. I hope that is good news. What is ATS?
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,118 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Wow.. I hope that is good news. What is ATS? >>



    "Across The Street," a euphemism for the NGC Forum. Of course, over there THIS is ATS.

    I am not positive that the person who claims to have numbers 8 & 9 actually does. He might, but he is relatively new and we have not seen pictures yet.
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • jtlee321jtlee321 Posts: 2,363 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ahh gotcha.. Thanks for the information.
  • bigtonydallasbigtonydallas Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭
    Seanq, I've been meaning to comment on the sample found with the prominent die crack. First of all this is excellent news for anyone who wishes to own an example, as it means the die was in use for an extended period of time. Even the doubling on IN GOD shows signs of weakening from die fatigue, another great indicator of a long life. The die crack and the strong doubling on the ST of TRUST that remain in the later die states will help eBay cherrypickers like me identify examples even from lousy pictures. I have picked major doubled dies from only seeing die markers like that crack, and that is one you can see an aisle away.

    I have found 2 Ebay auctions that have what looks like the exact same die crack but no doubling. Looks like the letters on one where GOD is very thick so this could be a very late die state. The auctions have not finished, so until they do, I wont post a link to them just in case someone is trying to cherry pick them.



    Big Tony from Texas! Cherrypicking fool!!!!!!
  • jtlee321jtlee321 Posts: 2,363 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I had looked through every 1919 dime on eBay the other night and only came across one that had a similar die crack. It was similar but not as pronounced as the one I have. I personally do not believe there are any on eBay right now. I could however be wrong as there were a couple with photos that were just too bad to judge.
  • bigtonydallasbigtonydallas Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭
    I am going to post the links to these auctions as they are pretty clear that there is not doubling at the ST of trust.



    AUCTION 1

    AUCTION 2
    Big Tony from Texas! Cherrypicking fool!!!!!!
  • jtlee321jtlee321 Posts: 2,363 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I just looked at both of those. The reverses do not include the die cracks through the C either. The auction I PM'd you is the closest one I could find on eBay. Very, very similar to my example. But the die crack on the obverse is slightly off.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,118 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I am going to post the links to these auctions as they are pretty clear that there is not doubling at the ST of trust.



    AUCTION 1

    AUCTION 2 >>



    Neither of those is the doubled die obverse.
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,118 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>t2000 ATS just posted that he has TWO of them raw, close to F-12 condition. No photos though.
    This would get the known pops up to 9! >>



    Still no word from the owner of the alleged coins. I don't think we should count these in the census.
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    >>>Neither of those is the doubled die obverse.<<<

    I agree.
  • jtlee321jtlee321 Posts: 2,363 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree as well. He could at least respond to the requests for the photos. Not necessarily to post photo's but at least respond to say when or if he can.
  • bigtonydallasbigtonydallas Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭
    what is the delay on postings. I am the last post and I have received a few emails for additional posts to this thread but no update.
    Big Tony from Texas! Cherrypicking fool!!!!!!
  • seanqseanq Posts: 8,651 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I had looked through every 1919 dime on eBay the other night and only came across one that had a similar die crack. It was similar but not as pronounced as the one I have. I personally do not believe there are any on eBay right now. I could however be wrong as there were a couple with photos that were just too bad to judge. >>



    I am watching one auction with an interesting picture, but I have also purchased two or three coins previously with a similar photo and none of them were the variety. This one is likely to close low enough that I can cover it with my eBay bucks, so I will probably take another flier on it. I will post pics once the auction ends.


    Sean Reynolds
    Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.

    "Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
  • bigtonydallasbigtonydallas Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭
    Is my post the last one?? I have not seen any other posts since June 24th???? Someone PM me if you do see them after mine.


    Thanks
    Big Tony from Texas! Cherrypicking fool!!!!!!
  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,506 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Is my post the last one?? I have not seen any other posts since June 24th???? Someone PM me if you do see them after mine.


    Thanks >>

    Change your forum settings to show 100 posts per page or something like that and you will eliminate most of your issues. There have been other posts since the 24th. Click on "customize" in order to do this.
    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners. :smile:
  • jtlee321jtlee321 Posts: 2,363 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nothing new here. Still waiting for mine to make it through ANACS. Also waiting to hear about the VG to get back from PCGS for attribution then off to the auction block.
  • bigtonydallasbigtonydallas Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭
    I was looking at this auction on ebay!

    Could this be a type VI doubling on IGWT? There is machine doubling on the under side of the chin, back of hair and the bottom of the bust.

    What do you all think? Am I trying to see too much?

    I am not worried about spilling the beans as this auction was relisted at least once.
    Big Tony from Texas! Cherrypicking fool!!!!!!
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I saw that one Tony and dismissed it as not being one of these. I think that might be a cut on the chin, but the bottom of the bust looks doubled
  • jtlee321jtlee321 Posts: 2,363 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've looked at that one a couple of times. The doubling is to the south and west. At least it looks like doubling, more likely MD than true DD. He claims it is a MS example. Not a chance on the images he has posted.
  • seanqseanq Posts: 8,651 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I was looking at this auction on ebay!

    Could this be a type VI doubling on IGWT? There is machine doubling on the under side of the chin, back of hair and the bottom of the bust.

    What do you all think? Am I trying to see too much?

    I am not worried about spilling the beans as this auction was relisted at least once. >>




    That coin was discussed earlier in the thread as well, it could be Class VI doubling but at the seller's asking price there hasn't been anyone willing to step up and find out for sure.


    Sean Reynolds
    Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.

    "Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
  • jtlee321jtlee321 Posts: 2,363 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I just heard back from James Wiles. He has attributed my dime as DDO-001, Stage B, EMDS. He now has it on the way to ANACS for grading and certification.

    I assume that the Stage B, EMDS refers only to the obverse die, as the reverse die looks to be very late die state to me. So not sure what this means for possible population of these before the dies may have been replaced.
  • bigtonydallasbigtonydallas Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭
    I just got this coin from Ebay.

    It is a die clash on the obverse. You can see it left of the adams apple and from the nose to the hairline. Nice coin. The reverse looks like it might be a rusted die or something. The coin looks better than VG maybe FINE. I will keep trying again!!!
    Big Tony from Texas! Cherrypicking fool!!!!!!
  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,506 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I went to a ~125 table show today. I searched about a dozen lower grade examples and two Mint State examples, one of which was slabbed. At one of the last tables on the last aisle of the show, I saw a MS63FB in a 2x2. My thoughts of finding a winning lotto ticket raced through my head as I waited and searched for the missing dealer who had gone to the bathroom. He came back, I asked to see the lovely coin, I looked at it........











    And it was not to be. The show was another bust when it came to the 1919 DDO.
    image

    image

    I did Cherrypick other Merc Varieties though. None of which are winning lotto tickets however. imageimage
    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners. :smile:
  • jtlee321jtlee321 Posts: 2,363 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I had sent my dime off to Dr. James Wiles for examination and photographing for the CONECA files. He then forwarded it on to ANACS for grading and certification with the attribution. I got a call from ANACS today. They have graded it and are shipping it back to me. The final grade came in at EF-40 straight graded. I believe that makes mine the highest grade known as of right now. I'm so happy!!

    I will get some photos of it in the holder when it arrives.
  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,506 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I had sent my dime off to Dr. James Wiles for examination and photographing for the CONECA files. He then forwarded it on to ANACS for grading and certification with the attribution. I got a call from ANACS today. They have graded it and are shipping it back to me. The final grade came in at EF-40 straight graded. I believe that makes mine the highest grade known as of right now. I'm so happy!!

    I will get some photos of it in the holder when it arrives. >>

    Big Congrats to You! I will be searching at Summer FUN on Thursday. image
    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners. :smile:
  • StrikeOutXXXStrikeOutXXX Posts: 3,352 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I had sent my dime off to Dr. James Wiles for examination and photographing for the CONECA files. He then forwarded it on to ANACS for grading and certification with the attribution. I got a call from ANACS today. They have graded it and are shipping it back to me. The final grade came in at EF-40 straight graded. I believe that makes mine the highest grade known as of right now. I'm so happy!!

    I will get some photos of it in the holder when it arrives. >>



    Congratulations Justin!

    Yours would be the highest known straight-grade at this time.

    The #2 piece belonging to John Hodson has high XF, if not low AU details, but has some other issues. I do not think it will straight-grade, but as far as I know it still isn't back from conservation yet, so not sure how that will turn out.

    I updated the census with your grade.
    ------------------------------------------------------------

    "You Suck Award" - February, 2015

    Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
  • jtlee321jtlee321 Posts: 2,363 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks Jeff.

    I am still on the hunt for another example, as I am sure lots of others are.

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