Its funny that the mint finally acknowledged dealers gamed the System when day 1 they allowed 1 payer to multi swipe the same credit card to pay for Their straw buyers and day 2 they allowed the whale to pay cash for Those same straw buyers. They turned a blind eye when it was right In their face and should have stopped that game. The upcoming set is unfortunately relegated to those same Deep pocket dealers that will hoard hundreds if not thousands of sets In every wrapper imaginable. Regardless..their small margins Will assure they make money and the others meh wont make nothing unless you Count quick overfill sales to those same dealers. I would not plan on a big flip with these but But rather buy to keep...They killed the golden goose...
If they are going to have 150,000 on hand on day 1, why does anyone need to game anything. Does the market really need more than 150k ER/FS of any coin? Where did all these Kennedy collectors come from?
<< <i>Its funny that the mint finally acknowledged dealers gamed the System when day 1 they allowed 1 payer to multi swipe the same credit card to pay for Their straw buyers and day 2 they allowed the whale to pay cash for Those same straw buyers. They turned a blind eye when it was right In their face and should have stopped that game. The upcoming set is unfortunately relegated to those same Deep pocket dealers that will hoard hundreds if not thousands of sets In every wrapper imaginable. Regardless..their small margins Will assure they make money and the others meh wont make nothing unless you Count quick overfill sales to those same dealers. I would not plan on a big flip with these but But rather buy to keep...They killed the golden goose... >>
But this time they have to go back to the old way to game the system...friends and neighbors. Each will have to have a mint account with credit card. Or if they call in used a credit card that won't get the order bounced. No hired actors or street people this time.
<< <i>Its funny that the mint finally acknowledged dealers gamed the System when day 1 they allowed 1 payer to multi swipe the same credit card to pay for Their straw buyers and day 2 they allowed the whale to pay cash for Those same straw buyers. They turned a blind eye when it was right In their face and should have stopped that game. The upcoming set is unfortunately relegated to those same Deep pocket dealers that will hoard hundreds if not thousands of sets In every wrapper imaginable. Regardless..their small margins Will assure they make money and the others meh wont make nothing unless you Count quick overfill sales to those same dealers. I would not plan on a big flip with these but But rather buy to keep...They killed the golden goose... >>
But this time they have to go back to the old way to game the system...friends and neighbors. Each will have to have a mint account with credit card. Or if they call in used a credit card that won't get the order bounced. No hired actors or street people this time. >>
<< <i> What is the announced household limit? 5-10-100? >>
According to this Coin World article LINK the limit is 5 per household for all 3 Kennedy products. But we know the mint can change it's mint at any time.
"Previously, the US Mint had indicated that the eagerly anticipated 2014 50th Anniversary Kennedy Half Dollar Silver Coin Collection would be the first major product release under the new order management system. The product has been added to the product release schedule with an on-sale date of October 28, 2014.
The silver coin collection will include four 90% silver 2014 Kennedy Half Dollars from different mint facilities struck with different finishes. The coins will include a reverse proof version from West Point, a proof version from Philadelphia, an enhanced uncirculated version from San Francisco, and an uncirculated version from Denver. The sets will be priced at $99.95 each with an initial ordering limit of five sets per household."
I never thought that growing old would happen so fast. - Jim
pinehursrtcoins has sold 30 of the gold kennedys in the last 3 days .. oversupply >>
Well all I can say is I'm glad I canceled my 5 Coins on the 2nd day. With unlimited mintage these were doomed from day 1. Congratulations to those that got out.
With the Silver versions coming out soon and 150,000 sets all ready to go, it's not looking good. I had planned on getting just 1 of those sets but now I think I'll just sit and watch in horror.
The Mint might be giving me the final heave ho that I've been looking for. The time is getting right to move on to other interests.
It was fun for a while. When the thrill is gone, it's time to move on.
<< <i>Other factors will need to be in play to support a significant price rise, such as the one that occurred with the 2009 UHR. >>
Not necessary, as the UHR at 115,000 mintage still has a significant premium over melt. Raw coins in the low $2,000's vs. $1267 spot.
The Kennedy Gold is the ultimate Kennedy TYPE coin. It had enough "spin", both good and bad to promote it.
IMO, this coin is doing exactly what the UHR did. Tracking the same way. I believe this coin will be priced well above spot once the order period is closed.
So maybe buy on ebay instead of the mint for the upcoming silver set? I would buy a PCGS First Strike 70 Set for $200. Enough margin for the dealers to make a profit too if they can sell thousands of those sets at that price.
I wonder if the silvers will face the same massacre as the gold. Will the Kennedy Silver Set track like the 2011 25th Anniversary Sets? They could hold their ground if they produce less than 250K. Though I doubt there are 250K die hard Kennedy collectors out there like the ASE collectors. The Kennedy Silver Set will be a unique set except the reverse proof, because it looks like the mint will be making complete reverse proof mint sets in the future which will include the Kennedy half dollar but not in high relief.
If you can afford to buy and hold these coins, at todays prices,you should do quite well in a few years but I needed to move on to other things. I am not rich.
Where it goes is about 97% of melt once all the mintage finished. The refiner pays me 98% of melt. I don't even consider it a valid coin - looks like a gold plated half dollar lol.
Barring a crashing spot gold price, the Kennedy Gold PR70FS coins should be ok a year out. I remember board members selling off the MS70FS UHR coins for $1,800 or $1,900 as folks were telling them to essentially dump them while they could (and at a nice profit by the way). But, the coins worked there way up to about $4,000 before "settling in" here in the low to mid $3,000s. Not to mention $10,000-$20,000+ for those lucky enough to receive a PL designation.
Yes, I also see dealers selling their 70FS Kennedy coins on ebay now at levels that net nearly Mint Issue Price after fees and costs. When one needs to pay the light bill, you do what you have to do. I have chosen to tuck mine away for Christmas season and beyond at least until the Jackie spouse coin is released. We can revisit this thread and let's see if I should have taken the $1,250-$1,300 net per coin right now on these PR70FS coins as compared to whatever it is in 3-12 months. I've been wrong before.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>Just my two cents... We can revisit this thread and let's see if I should have taken the $1,250-$1,300 net per coin right now on these PR70FS coins as compared to whatever it is in 3-12 months. I've been wrong before.
Wondercoin >>
Not much of a bet / prediction. It can't get much worse than the values you mention. I'll go 10 - 15% better prices Aug 5, 2015. Kennedy coin from the mint will be dark by that time (who knows when the mint will pull the plug), Jackie will be in play, but the concept of the combo of Jack and Jackie, eh, I don't think the modern coin world is going to stop the presses and buy, buy, buy.
If anything, they'll get their Jack NOW, Jackie later.
MHO.
Disclaimer - I take no glee in this post. Srsly. The mint (and others) is failing. Big time.
The Kennedy gold coins won't be selling at melt, but I can see them at melt +8%. They are an odd size and compared to the AGE and Buffalo coins, they are not legal tender.
So looking through some UHR threads we find very familiar comments being made about the UHR........when prices rose, then fell hard, before rising up again.
So how did the investment in that generic Saint do in comparison to the UHR that doubled (or better for FS 70's)....Im thinking not very well
Like I said before - doom and gloomers are still very active on this forum, IMO, get a PCGS PR70DCAM FS now at depressed prices.
<< <i>The best thing that I did was cancel my order after all the hoopla and after seeing some pictures and two in hand. The coins all had problem area's or scratch marks(wire brush type). Now after looking at these. I found that I really don't need one. That $1189 will go towards a real Saint. >>
<< <i>Considering virtually the entire mintage will remain uncirculated for at least the rest of our lifetime, the idea of rarity kinda goes out the window. Same could be said considering the expanding pop of choice and gem common date "real" saints... why not go for a much less common '11-'14 Philly in 64 or so? It's more a numismatic choice then than simply a bullion coin like a choice common date saint or a UHR. >>
<< <i>There seems to be a plethora of these for sale on the BST. I thought that this was going to be THE hot item of 2009. >>
<< <i>overpriced, too small, not for me.... >>
<< <i><< I would LOVE to own one but I just can't justify the $300 PLUS premium over melt. >>....Patience >>
<< <i>I love it, too, though I'd be very surprised if it ever developed much of a premium. >>
7/8... And like I said, some of those sellers of the 70FS coins at under $2,000, actually may have sold a near $20,000 coin when PCGS started the PL designation two years later!!
While that will not be the case with these Kennedy coins, selling these coins in 70FS now to clear around mint issue price (or less) makes no sense to me!
As always, just my two cents.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>While that will not be the case with these Kennedy coins, selling these coins in 70FS now to clear around mint issue price (or less) makes no sense to me! >>
While I mention over and over again that the path this coin is tracking is very similar to the UHR, I don't predict we will have prices like the 70FS PL's (UHR's).
However, IMO, the 70DCAM FS Kennedy's at 2x melt is not a reach ($1800+). They are severly underpriced at $1400 or below in PCGS 70FS.
This is the ultimate Kennedy TYPE COIN. Once you start thinking of it as such, opinions change.
<< <i>The Kennedy gold coins won't be selling at melt, but I can see them at melt +8%. They are an odd size and compared to the AGE and Buffalo coins, they are not legal tender. >>
69's are not there yet, but the low approached that
these are legal tender and face it half dollar. if they were not valued at half dollar, then the mint would not have used that on the reverse.
<< <i>The Kennedy gold coins won't be selling at melt, but I can see them at melt +8%. They are an odd size and compared to the AGE and Buffalo coins, they are not legal tender. >>
69's are not there yet, but the low approached that
these are legal tender and face it half dollar. if they were not valued at half dollar, then the mint would not have used that on the reverse. >>
It is good to know that worst case they are worth 50 cents. I sleep better knowing that.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
Comments
<< <i>I no understand chicken inclusion
Describe joke? >>
Can't help ya.
System when day 1 they allowed 1 payer to multi swipe the same credit card to pay for
Their straw buyers and day 2 they allowed the whale to pay cash for
Those same straw buyers. They turned a blind eye when it was right
In their face and should have stopped that game.
The upcoming set is unfortunately relegated to those same
Deep pocket dealers that will hoard hundreds if not thousands of sets
In every wrapper imaginable. Regardless..their small margins
Will assure they make money and the others meh wont make nothing unless you
Count quick overfill sales to those same dealers. I would not plan on a big flip with these but
But rather buy to keep...They killed the golden goose...
<< <i>Its funny that the mint finally acknowledged dealers gamed the
System when day 1 they allowed 1 payer to multi swipe the same credit card to pay for
Their straw buyers and day 2 they allowed the whale to pay cash for
Those same straw buyers. They turned a blind eye when it was right
In their face and should have stopped that game.
The upcoming set is unfortunately relegated to those same
Deep pocket dealers that will hoard hundreds if not thousands of sets
In every wrapper imaginable. Regardless..their small margins
Will assure they make money and the others meh wont make nothing unless you
Count quick overfill sales to those same dealers. I would not plan on a big flip with these but
But rather buy to keep...They killed the golden goose... >>
But this time they have to go back to the old way to game the system...friends and neighbors. Each will have to have a mint account with credit card. Or if they call in used a credit card that won't get the order bounced. No hired actors or street people this time.
<< <i>
<< <i>Its funny that the mint finally acknowledged dealers gamed the
System when day 1 they allowed 1 payer to multi swipe the same credit card to pay for
Their straw buyers and day 2 they allowed the whale to pay cash for
Those same straw buyers. They turned a blind eye when it was right
In their face and should have stopped that game.
The upcoming set is unfortunately relegated to those same
Deep pocket dealers that will hoard hundreds if not thousands of sets
In every wrapper imaginable. Regardless..their small margins
Will assure they make money and the others meh wont make nothing unless you
Count quick overfill sales to those same dealers. I would not plan on a big flip with these but
But rather buy to keep...They killed the golden goose... >>
But this time they have to go back to the old way to game the system...friends and neighbors. Each will have to have a mint account with credit card. Or if they call in used a credit card that won't get the order bounced. No hired actors or street people this time. >>
What is the announced household limit? 5-10-100?
<< <i>
What is the announced household limit? 5-10-100? >>
According to this Coin World article LINK the limit is 5 per household for all 3 Kennedy products. But we know the mint can change it's mint at any time.
"Previously, the US Mint had indicated that the eagerly anticipated 2014 50th Anniversary Kennedy Half Dollar Silver Coin Collection would be the first major product release under the new order management system. The product has been added to the product release schedule with an on-sale date of October 28, 2014.
The silver coin collection will include four 90% silver 2014 Kennedy Half Dollars from different mint facilities struck with different finishes. The coins will include a reverse proof version from West Point, a proof version from Philadelphia, an enhanced uncirculated version from San Francisco, and an uncirculated version from Denver. The sets will be priced at $99.95 each with an initial ordering limit of five sets per household."
- Jim
$137.58 above melt
<< <i>$1088.88 NGC 69 ER
$137.58 above melt >>
Wow,,,,I just got my PCGS grade of PR70DCAM First Strike coin #530301.....normally I'd be jumping in my boots!
Looks like I'll break even....assuming of course gold spot price levels out.
<< <i>
<< <i>$1088.88 NGC 69 ER
$137.58 above melt >>
Wow,,,,I just got my PCGS grade of PR70DCAM First Strike coin #530301.....normally I'd be jumping in my boots!
Looks like I'll break even....assuming of course gold spot price levels out. >>
dealer buying at melt....... ouch
<< <i>$1088.88 NGC 69 ER
$137.58 above melt >>
pinehursrtcoins has sold 30 of the gold kennedys in the last 3 days .. oversupply
We may be seeing the Yoko Ono of coins.
More sonic torture. Diminuendo pricing. Cue the life jackets.
<< <i>
<< <i>$1088.88 NGC 69 ER
$137.58 above melt >>
pinehursrtcoins has sold 30 of the gold kennedys in the last 3 days .. oversupply >>
Well all I can say is I'm glad I canceled my 5 Coins on the 2nd day. With unlimited mintage these were doomed from day 1.
Congratulations to those that got out.
With the Silver versions coming out soon and 150,000 sets all ready to go, it's not looking good. I had planned on getting
just 1 of those sets but now I think I'll just sit and watch in horror.
The Mint might be giving me the final heave ho that I've been looking for. The time is getting right to move on to other
interests.
It was fun for a while. When the thrill is gone, it's time to move on.
<< <i>Other factors will need to be in play to support a significant price rise, such as the one that occurred with the 2009 UHR. >>
Not necessary, as the UHR at 115,000 mintage still has a significant premium over melt. Raw coins in the low $2,000's vs. $1267 spot.
The Kennedy Gold is the ultimate Kennedy TYPE coin. It had enough "spin", both good and bad to promote it.
IMO, this coin is doing exactly what the UHR did. Tracking the same way. I believe this coin will be priced well above spot once the order period is closed.
And also expect BIG adjustments to final numbers.
<< <i>With the Silver versions coming out soon and 150,000 sets all ready to go, it's not looking good. I had planned on getting >>
I always said they will mint the sh&t out of the silvers. There is no deal there.
I wonder if the silvers will face the same massacre as the gold. Will the Kennedy Silver Set track like the 2011 25th Anniversary Sets? They could hold their ground if they produce less than 250K. Though I doubt there are 250K die hard Kennedy collectors out there like the ASE collectors. The Kennedy Silver Set will be a unique set except the reverse proof, because it looks like the mint will be making complete reverse proof mint sets in the future which will include the Kennedy half dollar but not in high relief.
Box of 20
no comment
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>I don't recall a modern gold 69 selling this much below issue so soon. >>
A sign that perhaps numismatics and the hobby is returning to normalcy , from it's primal stages of geekdom.
One good thing comes of this - these idiotic buyers will not be back for more coins. They got burned enough.
<< <i>Idoitic buyers selling on ebay for stupid prices. Weak hands.
One good thing comes of this - these idiotic buyers will not be back for more coins. They got burned enough. >>
Quite a fewof these SCI's are coin dealers, and I'm fairly confident they will be back.
Where it goes is about 97% of melt once all the mintage finished. The refiner pays me 98% of melt. I don't even consider it a valid coin - looks like a gold plated half dollar lol.
Sounds a whole lot like those buyers of uhrs at melt
Time to put down the pipe
Barring a crashing spot gold price, the Kennedy Gold PR70FS coins should be ok a year out. I remember board members selling off the MS70FS UHR coins for $1,800 or $1,900 as folks were telling them to essentially dump them while they could (and at a nice profit by the way). But, the coins worked there way up to about $4,000 before "settling in" here in the low to mid $3,000s. Not to mention $10,000-$20,000+ for those lucky enough to receive a PL designation.
Yes, I also see dealers selling their 70FS Kennedy coins on ebay now at levels that net nearly Mint Issue Price after fees and costs. When one needs to pay the light bill, you do what you have to do. I have chosen to tuck mine away for Christmas season and beyond at least until the Jackie spouse coin is released. We can revisit this thread and let's see if I should have taken the $1,250-$1,300 net per coin right now on these PR70FS coins as compared to whatever it is in 3-12 months. I've been wrong before.
Wondercoin
<< <i>Sounds a whole lot like those buyers of uhrs at melt
>>
Gotta ask - What UHR buyers at melt? Just wondering.
<< <i>Just my two cents... We can revisit this thread and let's see if I should have taken the $1,250-$1,300 net per coin right now on these PR70FS coins as compared to whatever it is in 3-12 months. I've been wrong before.
Wondercoin >>
Not much of a bet / prediction. It can't get much worse than the values you mention. I'll go 10 - 15% better prices Aug 5, 2015. Kennedy coin from the mint will be dark by that time (who knows when the mint will pull the plug), Jackie will be in play, but the concept of the combo of Jack and Jackie, eh, I don't think the modern coin world is going to stop the presses and buy, buy, buy.
If anything, they'll get their Jack NOW, Jackie later.
MHO.
Disclaimer - I take no glee in this post. Srsly. The mint (and others) is failing. Big time.
Tell that to all the sellers today!!
Wondercoin
<< <i>"Not much of a bet / prediction"
Tell that to all the sellers today!!
Wondercoin >>
It's not about sellers today, but you revisiting the thread 3 - 12 months from now to see if you are right.
<< <i>Gotta ask - What UHR buyers at melt? Just wondering. >>
Exactly maybe our doom and gloomers can tell us how many they
Bought at melt. They seem so confident they will be buying these at melt
Too.
While it is not hot, on ebay, sales for the mint are doing ok.
Coin collector on hsn has 388 of them for 2799.95 + 9.95 s&h
Item number 382-415
Mentions accented hair. I'm not sure he's aware it's not AH.
Calls ANA release insane
Inane... The commentary... To get 388 FDOI ... Must have been part of the problem...
Also said first day people were waiting in pouring rain
Said they released at SF mint
Mentioned someone busing in people.
Said they had people waiting in line ... Buying... Tickets...
Calling it a dual metal coin... Minted in silver and gold... No Morgans in gold.
Only W mint Kennedy.
Says there are 40,000 of these... Comparing mintage to 33,000 95-W ASE and it's value. Sells for 10x this in 70 condition.
Now saying mint doesn't make a lot of 24k gold coins. Mentions only other is Buff... Forgets spouse coins.
Re mentions 40,000 a few more times
Says 95-W ASE in 70 sold for 84 grand
Dolt with him asks... Can they make more of these?
"Congress would have to pass a resolution."
OMG
I wish I were recording this.... One for the ages.
Previously thought 1938D/D possibly only D over D existing. Also called it an overdate
His dealer he called trying to get some clads for his "4 coin set" throw together said "if you find any I need 5k sets."
This set is proof 2014 silver, 2014 proof gold and 2 piece clad. These are all ANACS 69s
Item 387-685 for $2399.95 + 10.95 s&h with wood case.
Keeps harping on mint selling the clads strictly and they are hard to get.
All of the kennedy and silver HOFs keeps saying either hard to get or can't get these anywhere else.
Minted at end of WWI, later says 1921-35
Says almost an ounce of silver
Enhanced Uncirculated ASE - selling separately from RP
Said only EU available and won't make one in 2014!
Calls clad coins cuper-nickel.
<< <i>but sales were up on Wednesdays posting >>
I wouldn't bet the farm on those sales numbers. After they dig out from the returns, then we will see where the numbers fall.
and compared to the AGE and Buffalo coins, they are not legal tender.
<< <i>Call clads "satin finish"
His dealer he called trying to get some clads for his "4 coin set" throw together said "if you find any I need 5k sets."
This set is proof 2014 silver, 2014 proof gold and 2 piece clad. These are all ANACS 69s
Item 387-685 for $2399.95 + 10.95 s&h with wood case.
Keeps harping on mint selling the clads strictly and they are hard to get.
All of the kennedy and silver HOFs keeps saying either hard to get or can't get these anywhere else. >>
The US Mint is still selling these Gold Kennedy's for $1240.00
each - or 2 for $2480.00 . The 2 Coin Clad Sets are still available at
$9.95
So how did the investment in that generic Saint do in comparison to the UHR that doubled (or better for FS 70's)....Im thinking not very well
Like I said before - doom and gloomers are still very active on this forum, IMO, get a PCGS PR70DCAM FS now at depressed prices.
<< <i>The best thing that I did was cancel my order after all the hoopla and after seeing some pictures and two in hand. The coins all had problem area's or scratch marks(wire brush type). Now after looking at these. I found that I really don't need one. That $1189 will go towards a real Saint. >>
<< <i>Considering virtually the entire mintage will remain uncirculated for at least the rest of our lifetime, the idea of rarity kinda goes out the window. Same could be said considering the expanding pop of choice and gem common date "real" saints... why not go for a much less common '11-'14 Philly in 64 or so? It's more a numismatic choice then than simply a bullion coin like a choice common date saint or a UHR. >>
<< <i>There seems to be a plethora of these for sale on the BST. I thought that this was going to be THE hot item of 2009. >>
<< <i>overpriced, too small, not for me.... >>
<< <i><< I would LOVE to own one but I just can't justify the $300 PLUS premium over melt. >>....Patience >>
<< <i>I love it, too, though I'd be very surprised if it ever developed much of a premium. >>
the same cycle repeated over and over again......my point is the Gold Kennedy is following the same path....
<< <i>I knew I should have bought more. >>
<< <i>The mintage isn't all that high considering this coin will be popular with many collectors outside the USA. >>
While that will not be the case with these Kennedy coins, selling these coins in 70FS now to clear around mint issue price (or less) makes no sense to me!
As always, just my two cents.
Wondercoin
the same cycle repeated over and over again......my point is the Gold Kennedy is following the same path....
<< <i>I knew I should have bought more. >>
<< <i>The mintage isn't all that high considering this coin will be popular with many collectors outside the USA. >>
the same cycle repeated over and over again......my point is the Gold Kennedy is following the same path....
<< <i>I knew I should have bought more. >>
<< <i>The mintage isn't all that high considering this coin will be popular with many collectors outside the USA. >>
<< <i>While that will not be the case with these Kennedy coins, selling these coins in 70FS now to clear around mint issue price (or less) makes no sense to me! >>
While I mention over and over again that the path this coin is tracking is very similar to the UHR, I don't predict we will have prices like the 70FS PL's (UHR's).
However, IMO, the 70DCAM FS Kennedy's at 2x melt is not a reach ($1800+). They are severly underpriced at $1400 or below in PCGS 70FS.
This is the ultimate Kennedy TYPE COIN. Once you start thinking of it as such, opinions change.
<< <i>The Kennedy gold coins won't be selling at melt, but I can see them at melt +8%. They are an odd size
and compared to the AGE and Buffalo coins, they are not legal tender. >>
69's are not there yet, but the low approached that
these are legal tender and face it half dollar. if they were not valued at half dollar, then the mint would not have used that on the reverse.
<< <i>
<< <i>The Kennedy gold coins won't be selling at melt, but I can see them at melt +8%. They are an odd size
and compared to the AGE and Buffalo coins, they are not legal tender. >>
69's are not there yet, but the low approached that
these are legal tender and face it half dollar. if they were not valued at half dollar, then the mint would not have used that on the reverse. >>
It is good to know that worst case they are worth 50 cents. I sleep better knowing that.