<< <i>I'll take the words of an independent source over a relative any day for objectivity. >>
The source was Crabtree's publicist. >>
I'll quote it again since you chose to miss it the first time:
"But a source who was at the Fitzgerald charity event—and who has no familial or professional relationship to Sherman or Crabtree—witnessed part of what happened and said it looked more like it was the other way around." >>
Because everything you read is true, right? Although, you'll get a kick out of the fact that Sherman was mic'd up for Sunday's game and you'll be able to hear first hand he said "good game" to Crabapple before he decided to show his thug side and shove someone in the face. But, you'll ignore all that when it comes to light.
And, who cares how many Broncos' fans there are? I mean, besides you, of course.
"Redskins" is a term that is viewed by some (maybe even many) as one that is racist and offensive.
Apparently "Thug" is also a term that is viewed by some (maybe even many?) [including Tupac and likely most of those who view Tupac as a role model, a as leader and as a person to look up] as one that is also racist and offensive. I personally think that "Thug" is a term that applies across the spectrum of humanity and is not limited to one particular subset of the human family [but who am I to disagree with Tupac?].
If 1985fan (and others) take the above as accurate and true, then it is suprising that 1985fan would call Sherman a thug (particularly since it appears he reached this conclusion solely based upon what Sherman said in the post game interview with Erin Andrews and the manner in which he said it). Again, an inconsistent position.
I suggest we all challenge 1985fan to a steel cage match. We could all sit back and enjoy watching what we'd all do to 1985fan inside the ring. You know, a few body slams, a few full nelsons, and some kind of submission hold. That's something we'd all enjoy, isn't that correct 1985fan ?
<< <i>"Redskins" is a term that is viewed by some (maybe even many) as one that is racist and offensive. >>
Redskin is a racial slur. Period.
<< <i> Apparently "Thug" is also a term that is viewed by some (maybe even many?) [including Tupac and likely most of those who view Tupac as a role model, a as leader and as a person to look up] as one that is also racist and offensive. I personally think that "Thug" is a term that applies across the spectrum of humanity and is not limited to one particular subset of the human family [but who am I to disagree with Tupac?]. >>
No, it's not. If you're going to desperately grasp at straws and try to equate these two terms then you seriously need to rethink your few on life.
<< <i>If 1985fan (and others) take the above as accurate and true, then it is suprising that 1985fan would call Sherman a thug (particularly since it appears he reached this conclusion solely based upon what Sherman said in the post game interview with Erin Andrews and the manner in which he said it). Again, an inconsistent position. >>
THEY AREN'T THE SAME! Good gravy you people are dense.
Apparently "Thug" is also a term that is viewed by some (maybe even many?) [including Tupac and likely most of those who view Tupac as a role model, a as leader and as a person to look up] as one that is also racist and offensive. I personally think that "Thug" is a term that applies across the spectrum of humanity and is not limited to one particular subset of the human family [but who am I to disagree with Tupac?]. >>
Where did Tupac find this racist and offensive? I'd love to see this 'evidence'.
At the bottom of page five of this thread is a link to an article about the racist origins of the term "thug" and a video of Tupac making this point in 1993.
<< <i>At the bottom of page five of this thread is a link to an article about the racist origins of the term "thug" and a video of Tupac making this point in 1993. >>
The article seems more bent on spinning information to push an opinion and pulling a vocabulary "gotcha" on the people that disagree with them.
Just watched Sherman's portion of the team interviews. I'm positive clips will be available later but do yourself a favor and watch it. He's a really sharp guy, especially on the fly, and doesn't give the typical bs answers.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>Life would we better if the 2 week Superbowl gap was reduced to 1 week.
It has een done in the past. >>
+1
They did it a while back, but I guess they weren't able to squeeze out as much money that way.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Just watched Sherman's portion of the team interviews. I'm positive clips will be available later but do yourself a favor and watch it. He's a really sharp guy, especially on the fly, and doesn't give the typical bs answers. >>
You sound surprised. The guy is a Stanford grad with a degree in communications who finished #2 in his class in high school. He's REALLY bright.
<< <i>Just watched Sherman's portion of the team interviews. I'm positive clips will be available later but do yourself a favor and watch it. He's a really sharp guy, especially on the fly, and doesn't give the typical bs answers. >>
You sound surprised. The guy is a Stanford grad with a degree in communications who finished #2 in his class in high school. He's REALLY bright. >>
I know some *really* smart people but put them in a room of 100 with microphones and random questions, you'll get nothing but stammering.
But to your point, I'm not surprised but rather very impressed.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
Hey Richard, you don't want to be called a thug? Don't act like one. It's a pretty simple concept. You brought this on yourself. There's plenty of ways to express exuberance, plenty of ways to show passion and making the best play of your career without sounding like a madman.
<< <i>Just watched Sherman's portion of the team interviews. I'm positive clips will be available later but do yourself a favor and watch it. He's a really sharp guy, especially on the fly, and doesn't give the typical bs answers. >>
You sound surprised. The guy is a Stanford grad with a degree in communications who finished #2 in his class in high school. He's REALLY bright. >>
Too bad he couldn't use those communications skills when he was doing those post game interviews, because there he sounded anything but.
<< <i>Just watched Sherman's portion of the team interviews. I'm positive clips will be available later but do yourself a favor and watch it. He's a really sharp guy, especially on the fly, and doesn't give the typical bs answers. >>
You sound surprised. The guy is a Stanford grad with a degree in communications who finished #2 in his class in high school. He's REALLY bright. >>
Too bad he couldn't use those communications skills when he was doing those post game interviews, because there he sounded anything but. >>
Perhaps he was only reacting the way he believed the media expected him to? With his jersey now outselling all others, he may be even smarter than you think.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I heard some parts of the Sherman interview, and he talks about how "thug" has been used as a substitute for a racial slur. I have to admit, that is the first time I really heard that thug has evolved into that.
I agree, the guy sounds much different than the typical pro athlete...in a good way!
<< <i>Hey Richard, you don't want to be called a thug? Don't act like one. It's a pretty simple concept.. >>
So it's ok for 1985fan to call out people for "bad" behavior, but God forbid if another board member calls out people or peoples for bad behavior. >>
1985fan, if true to his stance, should recant his thug talk about Sherman. Instead, use a non racial adjective like "loud mouth," or "poor sport," or "c#cky," if he feels the need to describe his 'antics'
<< <i>When I was a teen in the early 90s, there was no racial barb on the word "thug."
When did "thug" become an anti-black racial slur in the US?
2Pac invented his own definition of the word "thug," though. Maybe that's what did it? >>
You know how waaaaayyyyy back in the day (50s) there was the Red Scare/McCarthyism where people were too easily slapped with a Communist label? Well for at least the past 10-20s or so it's now the "racist" label is the new McCarthyism. Google/Wiki "water buffalo incident" for one of the best examples of how it can get REALLY out of hand.
Also saying to the official, "Call it, then! Call it!" LOL
That does it, I'm getting a #25 jersey. >>
The great thing is, he retaliated by laughing.
Awesomeness!
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
I have viewed the term "Thug" as one that is applicable to anyone and everyone who would qualify as a Thug (i.e. a person who would beat someone up for a couple of dollars, or just for fun, or who would rob or steal just because they can).
Societal norms change over time and terms like "Thug" can take on a different meaning.
"Thug" appears to be viewed by some as a term that is used as a code word to describe young blacks in the USA. If so this is happening, use of this term may become inappropriate as being racist.
I still do not think that it is appropriate for anyone to call Sherman (or even personally and silently view Sherman) as a "Thug" simply based upon what he said during the Erin Andrews post game interview and how he said it. I really do not understand how and why anyone would, based upon the interview alone, consider Sherman to be a Thug.
Perhaps some people just are not comfortable with a person publicly acting and speaking in a brash, emotional, aggressive, confident, testosterone overloaded, in your face manner.
It is interesting that with all of the furor over whether or not Sherman's post game interview was or was not appropriate, sales of his jersey have increased. He will be the subject of intense media scrutiny over the next couple of weeks. I suspect that on Media Day at the Superbowl Sherman will draw a bigger crowd of reporters than any other player on either team, including Manning. It will be interesting to see how Sherman comports himself on Media day and whether those who opine that he is a Thug will have a change or heart or will have their opinion reinforced.
<< <i>Thug isn't a racist term. At least when I use it, it has no racial overtones for me. >>
I don't think you used it as a racist term, but like Sanction said(which I was just made aware of today), "thug" is becoming a codeword for racist terms. Sooooo, in order to avoid a mess one doesn't need, that should be in the back of people's minds.
1985fan, since you are now aware of it, in order to stay true to your stance on the Redskins(where a lot of people never realized that was a racist term either), you should probably be more careful and clear on the use of that adjective. There are other adjectives that can be used to achieve your desired object that do not have any racial overtones.
<< <i>Thug isn't a racist term. At least when I use it, it has no racial overtones for me. >>
I don't think you used it as a racist term, but like Sanction said(which I was just made aware of today), "thug" is becoming a codeword for racist terms. Sooooo, in order to avoid a mess one doesn't need, that should be in the back of people's minds.
1985fan, since you are now aware of it, in order to stay true to your stance on the Redskins(where a lot of people never realized that was a racist term either), you should probably be more careful and clear on the use of that adjective. There are other adjectives that can be used to achieve your desired object that do not have any racial overtones.
Just my humble opinion. >>
My humble opinion is that if Richard Sherman was White 1985fan would not have used the word "Thug" and I dont give a rats a$$ what he says in his defense.
"Thug isn't a racist term. At least when I use it, it has no racial overtones for me.",
one could probably find many, many people across the entire spectrum of the population of the USA [including Native Americans] that would say:
"Redskins isn't a racist term. At least when I use it, it has no racial overtones for me."
So who is the final arbiter on what term(s) are ok to write and speak and what terms are not ok to write and speak (because they are overtly or covertly racist)?
I need to know who the final arbiter is so that I can obtain his or her decision on what terms I can write or speak so that I do not give offense (to anyone, regardless of how fragile or strong and resilient their bodies and minds are).
<< <i>Thug isn't a racist term. At least when I use it, it has no racial overtones for me. >>
I don't think you used it as a racist term, but like Sanction said(which I was just made aware of today), "thug" is becoming a codeword for racist terms. Sooooo, in order to avoid a mess one doesn't need, that should be in the back of people's minds.
1985fan, since you are now aware of it, in order to stay true to your stance on the Redskins(where a lot of people never realized that was a racist term either), you should probably be more careful and clear on the use of that adjective. There are other adjectives that can be used to achieve your desired object that do not have any racial overtones.
Just my humble opinion. >>
My humble opinion is that if Richard Sherman was White 1985fan would not have used the word "Thug" and I dont give a rats a$$ what he says in his defense. >>
"Thug isn't a racist term. At least when I use it, it has no racial overtones for me.",
one could probably find many, many people across the entire spectrum of the population of the USA [including Native Americans] that would say:
"Redskins isn't a racist term. At least when I use it, it has no racial overtones for me."
So who is the final arbiter on what term(s) are ok to write and speak and what terms are not ok to write and speak (because they are overtly or covertly racist)?
I need to know who the final arbiter is so that I can obtain his or her decision on what terms I can write or speak so that I do not give offense (to anyone, regardless of how fragile or strong and resilient their bodies and minds are). >>
My opinion is simple, if Sherman was white a different term would have been used to describe him and if the roles were reversed 1985fan would crucify someone else if they made a similar comment. Im certainly not offended nor do I give a crap Im just tired of all the drama that this Redskin topic has gotten because 85fan decided to spearhead it on CU sportstalk.
1985fan, like the guys are pointing out about Redskins, since you know now that "thug" is a a codeword racist term, based on your own philosophy, you can't use it anymore the way you are.
My philosophy is simple. I believe in Man and Woman. Race, skin color, and creed are all irrelevant.
People should be judged solely on their actions and merits.
My opinion is simple, if Sherman was white a different term would have been used to describe him and if the roles were reversed 1985fan would crucify someone else if they made a similar comment. Im certainly not offended nor do I give a crap Im just tired of all the drama that this Redskin topic has gotten because 85fan decided to spearhead it on CU sportstalk. >>
Too much drama. I put my two cents in(maybe a dollar and a half)...time to move on. Love US history though, so it kind of fit in there. It really is too political for this forum...but I respect WrestlingcardKing and his views and desires on the issue.
We all heard differing views, and in the end, we have more information at our disposal.
<< <i>1985fan, like the guys are pointing out about Redskins, since you know now that "thug" is a a codeword racist term, based on your own philosophy, you can't use it anymore the way you are.
My philosophy is simple. I believe in Man and Woman. Race, skin color, and creed are all irrelevant.
People should be judged solely on their actions and merits.
And I am USA first and foremost. >>
Skin its real simple, you are one of my favorite posters here
<< <i>1985fan, like the guys are pointing out about Redskins, since you know now that "thug" is a a codeword racist term, based on your own philosophy, you can't use it anymore the way you are.
My philosophy is simple. I believe in Man and Woman. Race, skin color, and creed are all irrelevant.
People should be judged solely on their actions and merits.
And I am USA first and foremost. >>
Skin its real simple, you are one of my favorite posters here >>
Is it what Sherman said during the post game Erin Andrews interview and how he said it that in your mind makes Sherman a Thug?
If so, why? I do not understand.
I am getting tired of this thread (and the ancillary Redskin topic) and this will be my last reply to same. But I will continue to read this thread as it moves forward, just because the differing statements and positions presented herein are quiet interesting, fascinating, illustrative, insightful, uplifting, frustrating and depressing all at the same time.
I can honestly say I didn't realize thug was a racial term. That being said I will admit that when a person of color commits a crime like the knock out game the first word that comes to mind is thug.
In reality it is probably is a racial term. If the person were white I would be more prone to call them a punk or a loser.
I can honestly say I didn't realize thug was a racial term. That being said I will admit that when a person of color commits a crime like the knock out game the first word that comes to mind is thug.
In reality it is probably is a racial term. If the person were white I would be more prone to call them a punk or a loser. >>
I must say my opinion of Sherman has changed since last Sunday night. I still think he acted like a jerk when the game ended, but I also think calling him a thug in the literal definition of the word is inappropriate and harsh. He is more articulate and thoughtful than I gave him credit for. The media, the game, it's all about entertainment and us being entertained as fans, and guys like Sherman certainly keep the game entertaining, lol..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I can honestly say I didn't realize thug was a racial term. That being said I will admit that when a person of color commits a crime like the knock out game the first word that comes to mind is thug.
In reality it is probably is a racial term. If the person were white I would be more prone to call them a punk or a loser. >>
Thanks, dpeck. I'm looking for the entire interview because it's that plus a lot more.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
I watched the post game tirade again, and I like Erin Andrew's, "Who was talking about you?" The way she said it, she kind of sounded like a teenager seeking gossip, instead of a reporter, lol. She is cute though
"Crabtree!"
That is some WWE, boxing, and football trash talking all wrapped up in one!
"code" and "overtones" are in of themselves codewords for "need to accuse target of racism so we'll just make something up that sounds like it might stick"
I can honestly say I didn't realize thug was a racial term. That being said I will admit that when a person of color commits a crime like the knock out game the first word that comes to mind is thug.
In reality it is probably is a racial term. If the person were white I would be more prone to call them a punk or a loser. >>
Like any perceived slur, I think it depends on the context. And in the context here, it seems to depend on the sport coupled with a brashness factor. Rats/agitators/goons/fighters/enforcers in hockey are often referred to as thugs even by some of the more respected media members. A well known ex-player turned writer just used it to describe a handful of the players involved in the Vancouver/CalGary debacle that is all over ESPN, I'm told. Anyway, pretty much all of the fighters in the NHL are white, and the guys who are pretty much only there to enforce some backwards code get tagged with thug if they have no offensive value quite routinely. Even though off of the ice they're some of the nicer guys you'll meet in sports. And a handful of them hold degrees from important schools like Harvard, Princeton, Cornell etc.
Save for perhaps Elijah Dukes, and he did some pretty evil things to deserve 'thug' being hung on him, I don't think I've ever heard a baseball player described as a 'thug'. Even guys like Milton Bradley. He was usually just tagged as a 'headcase' or childish or nutjob or clubhouse cancer or sorely in need of anger management counselling. I don't really follow the NBA at all, but when I did in the 90's, the only guys I recall that would get tagged with "thug" were the Xavier McDaniel or Charles Oakley or Rick Mahorn types. Bigger muscular power forward types with little to no offensive value who played a more physical defensive brand and weren't opposed to bouncing a Spanish Archer off of one's bean often without warrant. Instead of calling them physical players who would occasionally cross the line, they were just 'thugs" because it was easier, I suppose. Baseball and hockey have cultures that save for a few guys like A-rod, Beardy Wilson, Nyjer Morgan in baseball and the PK Subban types in hockey, that largely legislates swagger, self-promotion, and brashness out it's respective games. For the most part. Some long tenured folks like David Ortiz seem to get away with it because, he doesn't suck and his teammates love him, I guess....except a long time ago when he wasn't on the gas and did suck....when no one liked or wanted him...er ah, I mean before he altered his swing to tailor to Fenway Park for optimal batted-ball-ability or something.
So you have a mix of the unchecked self-promoters in football and basketball that for whatever reason doesn't seem to carry over as much into basketball in terms of 'thuggery'....perhaps because it's not all that physical of a game anymore. At least at the level it was in the 80's to mid 90's. Bird, Jordan, Reggie Miller were all elite level trash talkers and two of them happen to be African American. One even socked a teammate in practice once. I don't recall anything tagging them with thug. So that sort of takes some of the racial element out of it to me. But in football where Ric Flair grade self-promoters mesh with the physicality factor...or overly physical types imposing their will on the opposition with or without provocation, it seems to bring all of that hatred out. I'm sure there is a racial element to some of it, quite often, but perhaps not as often as some might think. Seems to be it's just easier to toss out thug instead of simply using bully or goader or harasser or flaunter or overbearing trash-talking jag or to use a modern baseball scouting term - rig. ie one who is co*ksure of his athletic abilities. I'd be interested to know why it's attracted itself to football, however. I suppose one factor is football's popularity, being a mediocre sport that everyone loves and all. Add in the media's 24 hour coverage of said sport. Or perhaps it's simply the result of 'thug'seeping into our cultural vernacular from rap going mainstream 20 years ago meshed with a lack of one's personal vocabulary. Perhaps you folks with dependents really need to start making your kids read a thesaurus more often. I mean do the 3 old white guys who still care about boxing go around hanging 'thug' on every African American fighter who spends his days punching dudes and cutting WWF style promos? I don't know, but it doesn't seem to be the case. Probably because no one under 50 watches boxing and certainly didn't grow up listening to Tupac, so it's not in their vernacular. This Dick Sherman fellow is just a brash punk to them, like Ali was back in his early days, one would assume.
You may also recall he used the term in his lyrics and was the first person I recall using the term in the mainstream. Tupac was proud of his gangster lifestyle and encouraged this type of behavior. For this one could argue it became synonyms with unruly black males.
So if unruly black males are thugs, and a white guy with a big truck and a hat on is a redneck it seems to me to be more of a racial stereotype. It probably does have a racial connotation but I think it is a stretch to make it so racial as the N word.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I'll take the words of an independent source over a relative any day for objectivity. >>
The source was Crabtree's publicist. >>
I'll quote it again since you chose to miss it the first time:
"But a source who was at the Fitzgerald charity event—and who has no familial or professional relationship to Sherman or Crabtree—witnessed part of what happened and said it looked more like it was the other way around." >>
Because everything you read is true, right? Although, you'll get a kick out of the fact that Sherman was mic'd up for Sunday's game and you'll be able to hear first hand he said "good game" to Crabapple before he decided to show his thug side and shove someone in the face. But, you'll ignore all that when it comes to light.
And, who cares how many Broncos' fans there are? I mean, besides you, of course.
Apparently "Thug" is also a term that is viewed by some (maybe even many?) [including Tupac and likely most of those who view Tupac as a role model, a as leader and as a person to look up] as one that is also racist and offensive. I personally think that "Thug" is a term that applies across the spectrum of humanity and is not limited to one particular subset of the human family [but who am I to disagree with Tupac?].
If 1985fan (and others) take the above as accurate and true, then it is suprising that 1985fan would call Sherman a thug (particularly since it appears he reached this conclusion solely based upon what Sherman said in the post game interview with Erin Andrews and the manner in which he said it). Again, an inconsistent position.
We could all sit back and enjoy watching what we'd all do to 1985fan inside the ring.
You know, a few body slams, a few full nelsons, and some kind of submission hold.
That's something we'd all enjoy, isn't that correct 1985fan ?
<< <i>"Redskins" is a term that is viewed by some (maybe even many) as one that is racist and offensive. >>
Redskin is a racial slur. Period.
<< <i>
Apparently "Thug" is also a term that is viewed by some (maybe even many?) [including Tupac and likely most of those who view Tupac as a role model, a as leader and as a person to look up] as one that is also racist and offensive. I personally think that "Thug" is a term that applies across the spectrum of humanity and is not limited to one particular subset of the human family [but who am I to disagree with Tupac?]. >>
No, it's not. If you're going to desperately grasp at straws and try to equate these two terms then you seriously need to rethink your few on life.
<< <i>If 1985fan (and others) take the above as accurate and true, then it is suprising that 1985fan would call Sherman a thug (particularly since it appears he reached this conclusion solely based upon what Sherman said in the post game interview with Erin Andrews and the manner in which he said it). Again, an inconsistent position. >>
THEY AREN'T THE SAME! Good gravy you people are dense.
<< <i>
Redskin is a racial slur. Period.
. >>
And according to you, there is absolutely nothing wrong with racial slurs.
You only said that they're a little "tacky".
You said everyone has an American right to use them whenever they want.
And so you did.
Thanks for calling Sherman a racial epithet. We all know your true colors now.
<< <i>
Apparently "Thug" is also a term that is viewed by some (maybe even many?) [including Tupac and likely most of those who view Tupac as a role model, a as leader and as a person to look up] as one that is also racist and offensive. I personally think that "Thug" is a term that applies across the spectrum of humanity and is not limited to one particular subset of the human family [but who am I to disagree with Tupac?].
>>
Where did Tupac find this racist and offensive? I'd love to see this 'evidence'.
<< <i>At the bottom of page five of this thread is a link to an article about the racist origins of the term "thug" and a video of Tupac making this point in 1993. >>
The article seems more bent on spinning information to push an opinion and pulling a vocabulary "gotcha" on the people that disagree with them.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
It has een done in the past.
<< <i>Life would we better if the 2 week Superbowl gap was reduced to 1 week.
It has een done in the past. >>
+1
They did it a while back, but I guess they weren't able to squeeze out as much money that way.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Just watched Sherman's portion of the team interviews. I'm positive clips will be available later but do yourself a favor and watch it. He's a really sharp guy, especially on the fly, and doesn't give the typical bs answers. >>
You sound surprised. The guy is a Stanford grad with a degree in communications who finished #2 in his class in high school. He's REALLY bright.
<< <i>
<< <i>Just watched Sherman's portion of the team interviews. I'm positive clips will be available later but do yourself a favor and watch it. He's a really sharp guy, especially on the fly, and doesn't give the typical bs answers. >>
You sound surprised. The guy is a Stanford grad with a degree in communications who finished #2 in his class in high school. He's REALLY bright. >>
I know some *really* smart people but put them in a room of 100 with microphones and random questions, you'll get nothing but stammering.
But to your point, I'm not surprised but rather very impressed.
<< <i>
<< <i>Just watched Sherman's portion of the team interviews. I'm positive clips will be available later but do yourself a favor and watch it. He's a really sharp guy, especially on the fly, and doesn't give the typical bs answers. >>
You sound surprised. The guy is a Stanford grad with a degree in communications who finished #2 in his class in high school. He's REALLY bright. >>
Too bad he couldn't use those communications skills when he was doing those post game interviews, because there he sounded anything but.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Just watched Sherman's portion of the team interviews. I'm positive clips will be available later but do yourself a favor and watch it. He's a really sharp guy, especially on the fly, and doesn't give the typical bs answers. >>
You sound surprised. The guy is a Stanford grad with a degree in communications who finished #2 in his class in high school. He's REALLY bright. >>
Too bad he couldn't use those communications skills when he was doing those post game interviews, because there he sounded anything but. >>
Perhaps he was only reacting the way he believed the media expected him to? With his jersey now outselling all others, he may be even smarter than you think.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I agree, the guy sounds much different than the typical pro athlete...in a good way!
I still liked his reaction after the game, lol.
<< <i>Hey Richard, you don't want to be called a thug? Don't act like one. It's a pretty simple concept.. >>
So it's ok for 1985fan to call out people for "bad" behavior, but God forbid if another board member calls out
people or peoples for bad behavior.
<< <i>
<< <i>Hey Richard, you don't want to be called a thug? Don't act like one. It's a pretty simple concept.. >>
So it's ok for 1985fan to call out people for "bad" behavior, but God forbid if another board member calls out
people or peoples for bad behavior. >>
1985fan, if true to his stance, should recant his thug talk about Sherman. Instead, use a non racial adjective like "loud mouth," or "poor sport," or "c#cky," if he feels the need to describe his 'antics'
D's: 54S,53P,50P,49S,45D+S,44S,43D,41S,40D+S,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 37,38,47,151,193,241,435,570,610,654,655 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
<< <i>A couple of nuggets about Richard Sherman:
He graduated from Stanford with a 3.9 GPA.
He heads a charity that provides clothes and school supplies to disadvantaged children.
It might be prudent to assimilate all info prior to attaching the "thug" label. >>
Agreed. The moral of the story is to learn the WHOLE story before passing judgement.
D's: 54S,53P,50P,49S,45D+S,44S,43D,41S,40D+S,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 37,38,47,151,193,241,435,570,610,654,655 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
"I'm gonna punch you in your f------ face."
"Well do it then, boy."
BOOM
Also saying to the official, "Call it, then! Call it!" LOL
That does it, I'm getting a #25 jersey.
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
<< <i>When I was a teen in the early 90s, there was no racial barb on the word "thug."
When did "thug" become an anti-black racial slur in the US?
2Pac invented his own definition of the word "thug," though. Maybe that's what did it? >>
You know how waaaaayyyyy back in the day (50s) there was the Red Scare/McCarthyism where people were too easily slapped with a Communist label? Well for at least the past 10-20s or so it's now the "racist" label is the new McCarthyism. Google/Wiki "water buffalo incident" for one of the best examples of how it can get REALLY out of hand.
D's: 54S,53P,50P,49S,45D+S,44S,43D,41S,40D+S,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 37,38,47,151,193,241,435,570,610,654,655 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
<< <i>"Whatchu gonna do, boy?"
"I'm gonna punch you in your f------ face."
"Well do it then, boy."
BOOM
Also saying to the official, "Call it, then! Call it!" LOL
That does it, I'm getting a #25 jersey. >>
The great thing is, he retaliated by laughing.
Awesomeness!
Societal norms change over time and terms like "Thug" can take on a different meaning.
"Thug" appears to be viewed by some as a term that is used as a code word to describe young blacks in the USA. If so this is happening, use of this term may become inappropriate as being racist.
I still do not think that it is appropriate for anyone to call Sherman (or even personally and silently view Sherman) as a "Thug" simply based upon what he said during the Erin Andrews post game interview and how he said it. I really do not understand how and why anyone would, based upon the interview alone, consider Sherman to be a Thug.
Perhaps some people just are not comfortable with a person publicly acting and speaking in a brash, emotional, aggressive, confident, testosterone overloaded, in your face manner.
It is interesting that with all of the furor over whether or not Sherman's post game interview was or was not appropriate, sales of his jersey have increased. He will be the subject of intense media scrutiny over the next couple of weeks. I suspect that on Media Day at the Superbowl Sherman will draw a bigger crowd of reporters than any other player on either team, including Manning. It will be interesting to see how Sherman comports himself on Media day and whether those who opine that he is a Thug will have a change or heart or will have their opinion reinforced.
Stay tuned.
loose cannon, fo sho.
<< <i>Thug isn't a racist term. At least when I use it, it has no racial overtones for me. >>
I don't think you used it as a racist term, but like Sanction said(which I was just made aware of today), "thug" is becoming a codeword for racist terms. Sooooo, in order to avoid a mess one doesn't need, that should be in the back of people's minds.
1985fan, since you are now aware of it, in order to stay true to your stance on the Redskins(where a lot of people never realized that was a racist term either), you should probably be more careful and clear on the use of that adjective. There are other adjectives that can be used to achieve your desired object that do not have any racial overtones.
Just my humble opinion.
and not someone who is being fed what to say days later...
smart...I dont doubt...
still classless, yes...
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<< <i>
<< <i>Thug isn't a racist term. At least when I use it, it has no racial overtones for me. >>
I don't think you used it as a racist term, but like Sanction said(which I was just made aware of today), "thug" is becoming a codeword for racist terms. Sooooo, in order to avoid a mess one doesn't need, that should be in the back of people's minds.
1985fan, since you are now aware of it, in order to stay true to your stance on the Redskins(where a lot of people never realized that was a racist term either), you should probably be more careful and clear on the use of that adjective. There are other adjectives that can be used to achieve your desired object that do not have any racial overtones.
Just my humble opinion.
My humble opinion is that if Richard Sherman was White 1985fan would not have used the word "Thug" and I dont give a rats a$$ what he says in his defense.
"Thug isn't a racist term. At least when I use it, it has no racial overtones for me.",
one could probably find many, many people across the entire spectrum of the population of the USA [including Native Americans] that would say:
"Redskins isn't a racist term. At least when I use it, it has no racial overtones for me."
So who is the final arbiter on what term(s) are ok to write and speak and what terms are not ok to write and speak (because they are overtly or covertly racist)?
I need to know who the final arbiter is so that I can obtain his or her decision on what terms I can write or speak so that I do not give offense (to anyone, regardless of how fragile or strong and resilient their bodies and minds are).
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Thug isn't a racist term. At least when I use it, it has no racial overtones for me. >>
I don't think you used it as a racist term, but like Sanction said(which I was just made aware of today), "thug" is becoming a codeword for racist terms. Sooooo, in order to avoid a mess one doesn't need, that should be in the back of people's minds.
1985fan, since you are now aware of it, in order to stay true to your stance on the Redskins(where a lot of people never realized that was a racist term either), you should probably be more careful and clear on the use of that adjective. There are other adjectives that can be used to achieve your desired object that do not have any racial overtones.
Just my humble opinion.
My humble opinion is that if Richard Sherman was White 1985fan would not have used the word "Thug" and I dont give a rats a$$ what he says in his defense. >>
You may be right.
<< <i>With respect to 1985fan's statement that:
"Thug isn't a racist term. At least when I use it, it has no racial overtones for me.",
one could probably find many, many people across the entire spectrum of the population of the USA [including Native Americans] that would say:
"Redskins isn't a racist term. At least when I use it, it has no racial overtones for me."
So who is the final arbiter on what term(s) are ok to write and speak and what terms are not ok to write and speak (because they are overtly or covertly racist)?
I need to know who the final arbiter is so that I can obtain his or her decision on what terms I can write or speak so that I do not give offense (to anyone, regardless of how fragile or strong and resilient their bodies and minds are). >>
My opinion is simple, if Sherman was white a different term would have been used to describe him and if the roles were reversed 1985fan would crucify someone else if they made a similar comment. Im certainly not offended nor do I give a crap Im just tired of all the drama that this Redskin topic has gotten because 85fan decided to spearhead it on CU sportstalk.
My philosophy is simple. I believe in Man and Woman. Race, skin color, and creed are all irrelevant.
People should be judged solely on their actions and merits.
And I am USA first and foremost.
<< <i>
My opinion is simple, if Sherman was white a different term would have been used to describe him and if the roles were reversed 1985fan would crucify someone else if they made a similar comment. Im certainly not offended nor do I give a crap Im just tired of all the drama that this Redskin topic has gotten because 85fan decided to spearhead it on CU sportstalk. >>
Too much drama. I put my two cents in(maybe a dollar and a half)...time to move on. Love US history though, so it kind of fit in there. It really is too political for this forum...but I respect WrestlingcardKing and his views and desires on the issue.
We all heard differing views, and in the end, we have more information at our disposal.
<< <i>1985fan, like the guys are pointing out about Redskins, since you know now that "thug" is a a codeword racist term, based on your own philosophy, you can't use it anymore the way you are.
My philosophy is simple. I believe in Man and Woman. Race, skin color, and creed are all irrelevant.
People should be judged solely on their actions and merits.
And I am USA first and foremost. >>
Skin its real simple, you are one of my favorite posters here
<< <i>
<< <i>1985fan, like the guys are pointing out about Redskins, since you know now that "thug" is a a codeword racist term, based on your own philosophy, you can't use it anymore the way you are.
My philosophy is simple. I believe in Man and Woman. Race, skin color, and creed are all irrelevant.
People should be judged solely on their actions and merits.
And I am USA first and foremost. >>
Skin its real simple, you are one of my favorite posters here
Thanks buddy!
However anyone trying to equate thug and redskin on the racism scale has no idea what they're talking about.
Is it what Sherman said during the post game Erin Andrews interview and how he said it that in your mind makes Sherman a Thug?
If so, why? I do not understand.
I am getting tired of this thread (and the ancillary Redskin topic) and this will be my last reply to same. But I will continue to read this thread as it moves forward, just because the differing statements and positions presented herein are quiet interesting, fascinating, illustrative, insightful, uplifting, frustrating and depressing all at the same time.
I can honestly say I didn't realize thug was a racial term. That being said I will admit that when a person of color commits a crime like the knock out game the first word that comes to mind is thug.
In reality it is probably is a racial term. If the person were white I would be more prone to call them a punk or a loser.
<< <i>Sherman's thoughts
I can honestly say I didn't realize thug was a racial term. That being said I will admit that when a person of color commits a crime like the knock out game the first word that comes to mind is thug.
In reality it is probably is a racial term. If the person were white I would be more prone to call them a punk or a loser. >>
I must say my opinion of Sherman has changed since last Sunday night. I still think he acted like a jerk when the game ended, but I also think calling him a thug in the literal definition of the word is inappropriate and harsh. He is more articulate and thoughtful than I gave him credit for. The media, the game, it's all about entertainment and us being entertained as fans, and guys like Sherman certainly keep the game entertaining, lol..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Sherman's thoughts
I can honestly say I didn't realize thug was a racial term. That being said I will admit that when a person of color commits a crime like the knock out game the first word that comes to mind is thug.
In reality it is probably is a racial term. If the person were white I would be more prone to call them a punk or a loser. >>
Thanks, dpeck. I'm looking for the entire interview because it's that plus a lot more.
"Crabtree!"
That is some WWE, boxing, and football trash talking all wrapped up in one!
D's: 54S,53P,50P,49S,45D+S,44S,43D,41S,40D+S,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 37,38,47,151,193,241,435,570,610,654,655 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
<< <i>Sherman's thoughts
I can honestly say I didn't realize thug was a racial term. That being said I will admit that when a person of color commits a crime like the knock out game the first word that comes to mind is thug.
In reality it is probably is a racial term. If the person were white I would be more prone to call them a punk or a loser. >>
Like any perceived slur, I think it depends on the context. And in the context here, it seems to depend on the sport coupled with a brashness factor. Rats/agitators/goons/fighters/enforcers in hockey are often referred to as thugs even by some of the more respected media members. A well known ex-player turned writer just used it to describe a handful of the players involved in the Vancouver/CalGary debacle that is all over ESPN, I'm told. Anyway, pretty much all of the fighters in the NHL are white, and the guys who are pretty much only there to enforce some backwards code get tagged with thug if they have no offensive value quite routinely. Even though off of the ice they're some of the nicer guys you'll meet in sports. And a handful of them hold degrees from important schools like Harvard, Princeton, Cornell etc.
Save for perhaps Elijah Dukes, and he did some pretty evil things to deserve 'thug' being hung on him, I don't think I've ever heard a baseball player described as a 'thug'. Even guys like Milton Bradley. He was usually just tagged as a 'headcase' or childish or nutjob or clubhouse cancer or sorely in need of anger management counselling. I don't really follow the NBA at all, but when I did in the 90's, the only guys I recall that would get tagged with "thug" were the Xavier McDaniel or Charles Oakley or Rick Mahorn types. Bigger muscular power forward types with little to no offensive value who played a more physical defensive brand and weren't opposed to bouncing a Spanish Archer off of one's bean often without warrant. Instead of calling them physical players who would occasionally cross the line, they were just 'thugs" because it was easier, I suppose. Baseball and hockey have cultures that save for a few guys like A-rod, Beardy Wilson, Nyjer Morgan in baseball and the PK Subban types in hockey, that largely legislates swagger, self-promotion, and brashness out it's respective games. For the most part. Some long tenured folks like David Ortiz seem to get away with it because, he doesn't suck and his teammates love him, I guess....except a long time ago when he wasn't on the gas and did suck....when no one liked or wanted him...er ah, I mean before he altered his swing to tailor to Fenway Park for optimal batted-ball-ability or something.
So you have a mix of the unchecked self-promoters in football and basketball that for whatever reason doesn't seem to carry over as much into basketball in terms of 'thuggery'....perhaps because it's not all that physical of a game anymore. At least at the level it was in the 80's to mid 90's. Bird, Jordan, Reggie Miller were all elite level trash talkers and two of them happen to be African American. One even socked a teammate in practice once. I don't recall anything tagging them with thug. So that sort of takes some of the racial element out of it to me. But in football where Ric Flair grade self-promoters mesh with the physicality factor...or overly physical types imposing their will on the opposition with or without provocation, it seems to bring all of that hatred out. I'm sure there is a racial element to some of it, quite often, but perhaps not as often as some might think. Seems to be it's just easier to toss out thug instead of simply using bully or goader or harasser or flaunter or overbearing trash-talking jag or to use a modern baseball scouting term - rig. ie one who is co*ksure of his athletic abilities. I'd be interested to know why it's attracted itself to football, however. I suppose one factor is football's popularity, being a mediocre sport that everyone loves and all. Add in the media's 24 hour coverage of said sport. Or perhaps it's simply the result of 'thug'seeping into our cultural vernacular from rap going mainstream 20 years ago meshed with a lack of one's personal vocabulary. Perhaps you folks with dependents really need to start making your kids read a thesaurus more often. I mean do the 3 old white guys who still care about boxing go around hanging 'thug' on every African American fighter who spends his days punching dudes and cutting WWF style promos? I don't know, but it doesn't seem to be the case. Probably because no one under 50 watches boxing and certainly didn't grow up listening to Tupac, so it's not in their vernacular. This Dick Sherman fellow is just a brash punk to them, like Ali was back in his early days, one would assume.
Sherman said "helluva game!" and stuck out his hand for a shake. Still a thug according to many DBOTW candidates in this thread though.
He was so proud of it he had it tattooed on his stomach.
Tupac Shakur
You may also recall he used the term in his lyrics and was the first person I recall using the term in the mainstream. Tupac was proud of his gangster lifestyle and encouraged this type of behavior. For this one could argue it became synonyms with unruly black males.
So if unruly black males are thugs, and a white guy with a big truck and a hat on is a redneck it seems to me to be more of a racial stereotype. It probably does have a racial connotation but I think it is a stretch to make it so racial as the N word.