Now that most have guessed I will make it more interesting. All these coins were graded in the same submission. The 2 94's were graded 1 after the other. The better 94 and the 05 were in 40 holders before.
Well I think these grades are going to be a shock to everyone here. I will say the submission they were in was a lot of sweet coins. I pretty much nailed my whole submission grade wise. The 2 Ex PCGS 40's were the only disappointments out of almost 70 coins.
The 1st 94 graded 25 The 2nd 94 graded 30 and the 05 graded 35
It just blows my mind that a grader can look at the 2 94's 1 behind the other and think there is only 5 points difference! Still shaking my head. Guess they'll just hangout in my SDB until I feel like taking a hammer to them
Mike,I just don't understand. I get every grade except 40's! I guess that is the breaking point where they know you will crack and resubmit. It might come back to bite em in the butt when I display a set of 30-35's that are better than many 40's! And you know how many I have like that now!
Unbelievable. They have been giving VF20/25's to inferior coins way to often. That was the reason for my 30 on the first 94. Granted it might have been extreme even for PCGS. The other 2 are just head scratchers. There's two things at play here. PCGS doesn't like you when it comes to 35/40 or they just don't like darker coins. I see a lot of the latter. Dip that 05, and it might make 50.
By the way, the coin I posted is in a 30 holder. The sellers pics are hard for me to read, but after seeing it in hand and taking my own pics, I think it would be perfect in a 35 holder.
<< <i>Well I think these grades are going to be a shock to everyone here. I will say the submission they were in was a lot of sweet coins. I pretty much nailed my whole submission grade wise. The 2 Ex PCGS 40's were the only disappointments out of almost 70 coins.
The 1st 94 graded 25 The 2nd 94 graded 30 and the 05 graded 35
It just blows my mind that a grader can look at the 2 94's 1 behind the other and think there is only 5 points difference! Still shaking my head. Guess they'll just hangout in my SDB until I feel like taking a hammer to them >>
5 points difference between the two 94's is ludicrous, and the 05 half is not a 35. GTG is fun but maybe not all good because of these grading inconsistencies.
I don't know if I should do this here. If this is taboo please let me know and I won't do it again.This is merely for discussion. What do you all think of this coin:
<< <i>Well I think these grades are going to be a shock to everyone here. I will say the submission they were in was a lot of sweet coins. I pretty much nailed my whole submission grade wise. The 2 Ex PCGS 40's were the only disappointments out of almost 70 coins.
The 1st 94 graded 25 The 2nd 94 graded 30 and the 05 graded 35
It just blows my mind that a grader can look at the 2 94's 1 behind the other and think there is only 5 points difference! Still shaking my head. Guess they'll just hangout in my SDB until I feel like taking a hammer to them >>
5 points difference between the two 94's is ludicrous, and the 05 half is not a 35. GTG is fun but maybe not all good because of these grading inconsistencies.
Doug >>
Doug,This is the frustrating part of grading coins or playing with plastic. I have been dealing nearly 20 years and really never had the need to plasticise coins. But with the Chineese factories pumping out counterfeits that fool some of the best it is becoming a necessity. I honestly think the grading services need to think about employing graders that really know how to grade circulated coins. Most of their graders are tuned in on MS and No...I will not spend 5 seconds and assign a grade!
Darrell - I don't see how that 92-S quarter can't be a 40 minimum. And with the grades on your halves, it just confirms the luck of the draw aspect of TPG. I guess when you have one grader who looks at 1000 UNC Morgans for every barber he sees, consistency isn't to be expected. The notion that three graders and a finalizer look at every coin submitted is obviously not the case.
Justin - I like your half better than everyone else, it appears.
No GTG, just one of my favorites from a few years back. A PCGS-45 from Harry Laibstain.
---------- Vern
Vern l It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
Mike,I have had a couple of dealers comment it could go 50. To me it is an absolutely perfect original 45....1 of very few Barbers I rank as a 10! If I collected the quarters that coin would not see the light of day for a long time.
I agree with you completely on your 92-S quarter, when I saw it on ebay a few days ago I couldn't believe it. That coin is a textbook 45, and a nice original one at that. I also agree that the graders expertise is not in the realm of circulated barber coinage.
The grading inconsistencies of circulated coinage is clearly evident. I think as the newer generation becomes more focused/interested in modern coinage (and 70 grades), coupled with previously mentioned time consumed grading MS silver dollars (or even Walking Liberty and Franklin Halves), the only circulated coinage they see would be Barbers, Bust, Seated Liberty coinage and older copper and gold. A lot of the formerly mentioned has already made it's way into holders or has already been attempted to. I would guess days go by where they see very few circulated coins. The exception being potential AU58 grades from varying series.
Darrell, it is clear that 92-S Quarter would be best served to be in a 45 holder and should be resubmitted in my opinion. What a gorgeous coin!
Equally evident, as pointed out by Doug is the spread of 5 points between the two 1894 halves being ludicrous. The general consensus grading average of the forum seems to be somewhere around 20/35-40/40-45. Although we are "specialists" in the series, graders are professionals in their craft. The results almost appears to be a crap shoot (within a range)and when there is so much time and money in the balance, you would think due diligence would be taken. The suggestion of graders of circulated coinage vs. MS coinage being separate positions, while a great idea, and one that would surely tighten the grades, is unlikely to be feasible due to the abundance of moderns and MS/Proof material they likely see daily.
When I submitted some 25 circulated Barber Quarters back in January and June, I received a lot of VF35 grades. Of the 25 Quarters I submitted, everyone came back 30, 35, 40 or 50. No other grades except one that was cleaned (98-O XF Details)
I sold many of those quarters here on this forum. Justin ended up with a 92-S Quarter that received a 35 grade (I expected a 30 grade when I submitted it .. Another 93-S Quarter with a virtual identical look also came back 35 and was sold on eBay). Two others I expected would grade 40, 1899-S and 1900-S came back 35 - I still feel under graded .. Others including an 1893, 1911 and 1911-S all came back 40s. When compared to the "under graded" 35's, the 40's have similar if not less detail and less eye appeal. The 35's also have smoother surfaces and equal luster and better eye appeal.
If circulated coinage is graded based primarily on detail then followed by surface quality, eye appeal and remaining luster then I am mystified how one would arrive at the conclusion they did. Here is a 1900-S VF35 Quarter recently sold here .. I like it better than the 55 in my set:
Moving on, here are two I picked up in the past two weeks. One from a fellow BCCS member and one from a national dealer. Which came from the same submission as my 98-S but came from far different sources. Weird.
I can't let that really nice 09-S slide without a comeback! Here comes an old friend that's been on the Mega Thread before. (This is for all of you new folks)
That is truly a very beautiful and all original rare and gorgeous 97-O MC .. Delightful and super appealing looking for sure ..
I acquired this 97-O from Liz from Teaparty about a year ago in PC AU50.
Was there a lucky winner from the forum for the 14-S quarter in PC58 from Teletrade tonight? Yours truly the under-bidder once again at $2400 ... I should have just pushed the pedal and bit the bullet. I did manage to claim a nice consolation prize of what appears to be a couple of nice quarters - A 1915-S AU58 and 1901 AU55 .. The verdict is in the balance while the jury is sequestered until USPS knocks...
I am not sure if these pictures were cropped properly as photobucket did an upgrade and this is my first visit since ...
Comments
30
45
45
Guesses in wrong order
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
15
35
40
Doug
20/35/45 (On the fence 35/40 on 2nd coin and 40/45 3rd coin but summarizing all factors, amended guesses:
20
35
45
-------------
Vern
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
<< <i>No problem. I took some time to review the first 94. I believe I over shot that one.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
Still trying to track down a decent 58 half.
Valente - Nice coins, really like that look on the quarter.
-----------
Vern
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
The 1st 94 graded 25
The 2nd 94 graded 30
and the 05 graded 35
It just blows my mind that a grader can look at the 2 94's 1 behind the other and think there is only 5 points difference! Still shaking my head. Guess they'll just hangout in my SDB until I feel like taking a hammer to them
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
By the way, the coin I posted is in a 30 holder. The sellers pics are hard for me to read, but after seeing it in hand and taking my own pics, I think it would be perfect in a 35 holder.
<< <i>Well I think these grades are going to be a shock to everyone here. I will say the submission they were in was a lot of sweet coins. I pretty much nailed my whole submission grade wise. The 2 Ex PCGS 40's were the only disappointments out of almost 70 coins.
The 1st 94 graded 25
The 2nd 94 graded 30
and the 05 graded 35
It just blows my mind that a grader can look at the 2 94's 1 behind the other and think there is only 5 points difference! Still shaking my head. Guess they'll just hangout in my SDB until I feel like taking a hammer to them >>
5 points difference between the two 94's is ludicrous, and the 05 half is not a 35. GTG is fun but maybe not all good because of these grading inconsistencies.
Doug
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1892-S-Barber-Quarter-PCGS-VF35-REALLY-/290795289739?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item43b4bffc8b
Sorry...1 day I'll learn how to keep everyone from having to copy and paste.
I myself am wondering why it isn't in an XF holder? Looks like a 45 to me.
<< <i>
<< <i>Well I think these grades are going to be a shock to everyone here. I will say the submission they were in was a lot of sweet coins. I pretty much nailed my whole submission grade wise. The 2 Ex PCGS 40's were the only disappointments out of almost 70 coins.
The 1st 94 graded 25
The 2nd 94 graded 30
and the 05 graded 35
It just blows my mind that a grader can look at the 2 94's 1 behind the other and think there is only 5 points difference! Still shaking my head. Guess they'll just hangout in my SDB until I feel like taking a hammer to them >>
5 points difference between the two 94's is ludicrous, and the 05 half is not a 35. GTG is fun but maybe not all good because of these grading inconsistencies.
Doug >>
Doug,This is the frustrating part of grading coins or playing with plastic. I have been dealing nearly 20 years and really never had the need to plasticise coins. But with the Chineese factories pumping out counterfeits that fool some of the best it is becoming a necessity.
<< <i>Here is the link Click me
I myself am wondering why it isn't in an XF holder? Looks like a 45 to me. >>
Go look at the last 2 45's sold on Heritage! I think this 1 is better. Thanks for the Linky!
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
Justin - I like your half better than everyone else, it appears.
No GTG, just one of my favorites from a few years back. A PCGS-45 from Harry Laibstain.
----------
Vern
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
Vern...Very nice 04-O!
I agree with you completely on your 92-S quarter, when I saw it on ebay a few days ago I couldn't believe it. That coin is a textbook 45, and a nice original one at that.
I also agree that the graders expertise is not in the realm of circulated barber coinage.
Doug
Doug
The grading inconsistencies of circulated coinage is clearly evident. I think as the newer generation becomes more focused/interested in modern coinage (and 70 grades), coupled with previously mentioned time consumed grading MS silver dollars (or even Walking Liberty and Franklin Halves), the only circulated coinage they see would be Barbers, Bust, Seated Liberty coinage and older copper and gold. A lot of the formerly mentioned has already made it's way into holders or has already been attempted to. I would guess days go by where they see very few circulated coins. The exception being potential AU58 grades from varying series.
Darrell, it is clear that 92-S Quarter would be best served to be in a 45 holder and should be resubmitted in my opinion. What a gorgeous coin!
Equally evident, as pointed out by Doug is the spread of 5 points between the two 1894 halves being ludicrous. The general consensus grading average of the forum seems to be somewhere around 20/35-40/40-45. Although we are "specialists" in the series, graders are professionals in their craft. The results almost appears to be a crap shoot (within a range)and when there is so much time and money in the balance, you would think due diligence would be taken. The suggestion of graders of circulated coinage vs. MS coinage being separate positions, while a great idea, and one that would surely tighten the grades, is unlikely to be feasible due to the abundance of moderns and MS/Proof material they likely see daily.
When I submitted some 25 circulated Barber Quarters back in January and June, I received a lot of VF35 grades. Of the 25 Quarters I submitted, everyone came back 30, 35, 40 or 50. No other grades except one that was cleaned (98-O XF Details)
I sold many of those quarters here on this forum. Justin ended up with a 92-S Quarter that received a 35 grade (I expected a 30 grade when I submitted it .. Another 93-S Quarter with a virtual identical look also came back 35 and was sold on eBay). Two others I expected would grade 40, 1899-S and 1900-S came back 35 - I still feel under graded .. Others including an 1893, 1911 and 1911-S all came back 40s. When compared to the "under graded" 35's, the 40's have similar if not less detail and less eye appeal. The 35's also have smoother surfaces and equal luster and better eye appeal.
If circulated coinage is graded based primarily on detail then followed by surface quality, eye appeal and remaining luster then I am mystified how one would arrive at the conclusion they did. Here is a 1900-S VF35 Quarter recently sold here .. I like it better than the 55 in my set:
<< <i>.....Justin - I like your half better than everyone else, it appears......... >>
LOL not as much as I like it!
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
----------
Vern
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
<< <i>
<< <i>Ooooh this sounds good, can't wait to see what you added, Vern. >>
Don't get your hopes up, Justin, it's not an 03-O.
Glad to have been of help, Vern. >>
I was just excited about seeing what Vern was getting.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
Doug
----------
Vern
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
_________________
Craig
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
I can't let that really nice 09-S slide without a comeback! Here comes an old friend that's been on the Mega Thread before. (This is for all of you new folks)
_________
Craig
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
I acquired this 97-O from Liz from Teaparty about a year ago in PC AU50.
Was there a lucky winner from the forum for the 14-S quarter in PC58 from Teletrade tonight? Yours truly the under-bidder once again at $2400 ... I should have just pushed the pedal and bit the bullet. I did manage to claim a nice consolation prize of what appears to be a couple of nice quarters - A 1915-S AU58 and 1901 AU55 .. The verdict is in the balance while the jury is sequestered until USPS knocks...
I am not sure if these pictures were cropped properly as photobucket did an upgrade and this is my first visit since ...
1897-O 25c PCGS AU50