John- Regarding the 92-O Half, the way I see those two toning (or lack of toning more appropriately perhaps) lines getting there was something resting on the obverse in that exact spot untouched for quite some time. Perhaps a paperclip or something similar remained in that exact spot for some time resulting in the toning developing around it. That coin is weakly struck and is somewhat lackluster (relative to the droves of brilliant or bright AU58 coins one sees), although it appears to have mostly if not entirely original surfaces and is quite attractive in hand.
Thanks for the very good explanation Scott. Now that you've mentioned it, you can almost see the paper clip outline exactly. FWIW I really like the color and the originality of the coin. Very cool!
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
The 93-S 1/2 is the king of the original toning collectors! I would buy it for the grade understanding it was given a notch up for it's originality!
Scott! That mustta been 1 of those big paperclips...but I agree with your thoughts. You just keep coming up with alot of nice coins!
Well! I did the dirty and got my results back from my reconsideration submission. Dang Vern...they wouldn't upgrade the 96-S. I guess they just don't like the original champagne toning. I had 13 coins from my collection reconsidered and got 3 upgraded. The 04-S and 15 made them worth while. My 11-D also upgraded. I was disappointed a few others didn't and had an ex barberite tell me today if I resubmitted my best date(97-O) 3 or 4 times it would! I kindda feel like if you use the reconsideration service once the axe has fallen!
Darrell - I have never submitted anything for reconsideration/upgade, and I don't claim to know anything about what would constitute a "successful" submission from a batting average standpoint, but 3/13 seems pretty decent to me (?) Sorry that the 97o didn't get the result you were after (this time).
I decided for various reasons to submit a fairly large batch of coins from my Library of Coins quarter album (12 in total) to our hosts at the Baltimore show. I was sad to "let them go" from the album, but I anticipate being able to add a few of them to my registry set and a few others will be sold or traded to help fund some very tough dates I hope to be able to acquire in the future . I decided for obvious reasons that these coins would be better off in PCGS plastic. It wasn't the first time I had submitted a coin from the album, but it was the first time so many came out all at once. Anyways, the LOC album remains enjoyable for me but it now currently houses just 19 coins, all VF or XF. The Fs have been or will be sold and the AU's were all submitted. It will probably be pretty slow goings for a while, but here is the newest pickup from Baltimore. I graded it XF40 when I bought it but I now say VF35 (lower headband line is broken). Regardless, it will reside comfortably where it is for a long time to come….
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edited for spelling
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
Darrell - I'd say you did real well with the reconsideration game. It's just how much you want to "feed the machine", to get the 97-O upped. Once again, it's an unregulated license to print money.
Pics for today, two raw newps from Scott:
Vern l It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
Couple of beauties, Vern. Congrats! And both are tough (especially that 95s).
I just had a surprising (and awesome) experience not an hour ago at a local coin shop I visit about once every two to three months. I had gone in there simply to shoot the breeze with the owner and maybe pick through some 90% junk while doing so. This is a decent enough shop but he tends to focus more on ancients, foreign coins, and earlier copper. Owner is an honest, very intelligent guy who I enjoy talking to. He knows I love Barbers, but has never had anything in his Barber inventory that has peaked my interest. Today when I walked in he immediately went to the back to go get a coin he said he thought Id like. Turned out to be a very lustrous, nice golden colored 1912s quarter that we both agreed was a AU55. I purchased it from him in its raw condition at a price I consider to be better than fair and he agreed to submit it to our hosts for me next week as well. The coin certainly is far more appealing to me than my current '12s, so it was a great opportunity that fell right out of the sky. This was an exciting twist to what I thought would be a very routine visit to an LCS that is not 5 miles from my house.
Turned out to be a great day even in this God awful weather!
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
JT - Congrats on the 12-S pickup. One never knows where the next find will come from, part of what is great about this hobby. Also, nice orig looking '06.
Pics for this AM, another newp from Scott's collection, PC55:
Vern l It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
Vern - Great photography as usual. I am still exploring the settings and learning how to use my new Canon EOS .. I have a nice 100mm Macro lens, tripod and goose neck lamps but I am still having a hard time getting the lighting right. I think that is 90% of it anyway based on my own experience, reading the multiple threads from guys like Lance and reading Mark Goodman's book ..
I sent those two raw quarters for opinions on quality and grade as I believe the ultimate unbiased opinions come before PCGS grades them. Both were purchased in September at the Manchester NH show. The 95-S is really nice and was being sold as an MS62. I looked at it for a solid 30 minutes before walking away to think about it (gambling no one else would buy it. He had dozens of mid grade to higher grade BQ). I returned after about an hour of thinking about it and it was still available. I looked at it again for another 10-15 minutes. After a brief negotiation, I bought it. I agreed with the grade at the show. Shortly thereafter I found and bought the 95-P which was also graded 62 by the dealer selling it. The 95-P has the very faint remnants of a fingerprint outlined in the toning on the upper right obverse. I found the outline to be so well blended in that it was insignificant to me; although the toning is a little irregular, the surfaces and luster were exceptional and the originality of the surfaces was undeniable. When I got home I later changed my mind grading the 95-S as a borderline 58+/62 that could go either way. Just a very few subtle wisps that could be construed as post mint handling; not slide marks or hair lines and nary any rub. The 1895-P I still feel is a 62. If I am correct, I believe Vern views these two just the opposite, calling the 95-S a 62 and the 95-P a 58 .. whatever the case, it is insignificant and the difference is negligible .. All that matters is they are nice coins; very appealing and purchased at a fraction of what they would yield if bought already in PCGS slabs
Boosibiri - I love that 93-S Half. Tom Bush is about as finicky as any I know when it comes to purchasing coins. While his prices are never modest, the quality is ALWAYS off the charts.
Nice coins as always JT and great story - passion is never lacking
Scott, I had seen that one. Looks XF, net graded for obverse marks. Overall a good look and Vern's pix are much better than seller's (if its the same coin I saw recently)
Great looking 97s Scott. Congrats! FWIW I agree with Lenny that the details look much better than VF30. I am not gonna lie though, when I read Vern's post about another 97s of yours, I half expected to see another center mint mark!
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
I wish it was another center MM .. I doubt that will ever happen again frankly ...
It is the same coin - I described it as looking XF to a couple people here just before I bought it. And I stated after receiving the coin and viewing in hand that I agree with the grade (net grading to 30 is appropriate .. it's not so much the marks on the face which are less significant in hand with or without a loop - as usual the lens magnifies the flaws - It is more the borderline ED/very minor porosity/damp storage look .. But it was a decent looking coin for a date that is not available in droves in middle to upper circulated grades.
Even a couple of the AU's I had seen appeared either re-toned or lifeless and dull white in appearance. That coin was located about 2 months ago; I have since sent a 97-S/AU55 to the mid-west as we speak so I am beginning to attain a mini hoard
There are some awesome coins on this page as usual, but I gotta say that 07 o from the Iowa collection is truly special. What an awesome coin.
Got the results from a recent CAC submission back today. I know many here could care less about holders and stickers, and I respect the heck out of that. Many here who practice that approach are admittedly far more seasoned collectors than I am. Personally, I still like to see where my coins stand from an eye like JA's from time to time, and I appreciate the fact that the "beans" can add to a coins' value (although certainly not always, and the vast majority of the coins I submitted aren't going anywhere anytime soon). I haven't submitted many coins in the past, but in total 10/17 Barber quarters I had previously sent were given green stickers. This time I sent 12 coins and 11 were Barber quarters, and was happy to see that 9/11 received stickers. 7 of the 9 BQs are in my registry set. Some were tougher dates and some were what I thought were nice examples of fairly common dates/grades. A few are fairly recent newp's from some of you fellow Barberites. Results below (all coins in PC holders):
1892 S AU-58: Not approved 1893 AU-58: Not approved 1894 S AU-58 (former Walt/58quarters): Green sticker 1896 AU-58 (former Walt/58quarters): Green sticker 1902 O VF-25 (same coin I posted a few weeks ago): Green sticker….TBH I thought this coin would either get a gold sticker or not be approved at all. Shows what I know. 1903 S XF-45: Green sticker 1904 AU-50: Green sticker 1904 O AU-55: Green sticker 1905 AU-55 (former Walt/58quarters): Green sticker 1905 S AU-53 (purchased from Scott/SAM5969 via eBay): Green sticker 1909 O VG-10: Green sticker
I was pumped about these results alone, but even happier that the 12th coin and lone non-Barber I sent ended up with a gold sticker A toned PC65 Mercury Dime in a rattler that will soon be sold/traded towards more Barbers
JT
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
I like that 97-S ! Here is a upgrade for my mint set. It replaces my 53. I have been looking at this coin for a few months, and after much debate, I pulled the trigger. The coin was over priced, that's what took me so long, but I think she is worth it. I can't wait to get the coin in hand. Seller pics are not that great, but neither are mine. I hope the luster is all there..
Kevin - That 99 Half looks dynamite to me - strong and attractive luster; clean fields/cheek .. nice strike .. I am guessing held to 62 for some light hairlines you may not see in the image possibly highlighted or "enhanced" from a recent dip
Thanks for all the recent comments folks .. Please keep in mind while Barberkeys calls them newps - 90% are NOT new purchase NEWPs .. they are New to BK The 04-S half is a sweet coin in hand. I have come to really respect how difficult coin photography really is .. And even when done well, there simply is no comparison to coin in hand .. Just look at all the PO'd people who feel Heritage juiced the Newman coin photos resulting in Planet Pluto money for many. The 97-S quarter has a nice natural look and a sharp strike but the luster is definitely muted .. if you look at the surfaces under 5-10x there are quite a few micro abrasions .. No idea how they got there/what they're from .. they don't appear to be mishandling or "doctoring" or anything of malicious intent .. but I believe their presence interrupts the flow lines/metal reducing the luster substantially .. it has the luster of a nice 45 . Still a nice coin for one of the top 8 toughest dates in the series
Nice coin Boosibiri - I saw that coin when it was listed at Heritage .. I love the look !! Congrads !!
XF detail very much like the 97-S Quarter I posted that was also graded VF-30 by Heritage a few weeks back .. At least NGC is consistent grading the XF detail Barbers with darker surfaces the same grade .. I like the look and love the conservative grading .. Compare the detail below - Note the 13 obverse star definition and 3 dimensionality - the wings and shield on the eagle - Liberty and the bands above and below are all XF strictly speaking detail wise - I happen to agree with the VF30 assigned
Scott - Interesting thoughts regarding the net grading of both coins. Personally, I still don't get how your 97s is not in at least a 40 holder based on your pics. I will cede to your expertise and the fact that I have never seen the coin in hand, though. Always appreciate your honest assessments and analysis, fwiw.
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
Thanks John - I am far from an expert .. if anything I am in my residency here .. but I have to admit, the main reason I bought the 97-S was because I felt it was under graded based on the pix.
Here is my own interpretation of grading:
I believe it goes beyond the physical checkpoints/guidelines laid out for a specific series. Photograde is a great pictorial mechanism for learning the physical requirements for a coin to "make the grade". But those attributes are only part of the criteria. I believe that if the minimum physical requirements for a coin making a certain grade are not there, it could NEVER attain said grade. Conversely, just because all the physical characteristics ARE there, it only MAY grade as high as those attributes allow, but not necessarily. In other words, a coin having all the physical criteria required for a certain grade level, doesn't mean the coin will automatically grade at that level. I think some abstract values and interpretation must be factored in. Call it net grading if you will .. But I actually think it goes a little beyond that. The longer I held the coin in hand the more I agreed with the assigned grade. In summary I believe the total grade of the coin is comprised more of just the physical thresholds that define the grades. I believe those are guidelines and just that.
This is just my own interpretation of grading. I have never read or been told any of this. It is purely my own opinion and is derived from my own experience within the hobby - so please don't get yourself twisted like me listening to my jive turkey
A very nicely written summary, Scott. Have to say that I agree with a great deal of your "jive turkey". For my part, I guess this exposes another area of focus for me as a collector since I don't know where "net grading" ends and "details grading" begins as well as Id like to.
Using your 97s as the example, it would seem to me that "net grading" it VF-30 based on the surface imperfections you describe was an alternative to NGC grading it "XF Details - Surface Damage". To me, that coin is XF all the way based on the highlights you covered in your description (and the pics). It may or may not be a PQ XF-40, but "net grading" all the way down to VF-30 based on surface quality (with the surfaces not being affected by a prior cleaning) seems to me to be a less than accurate snapshot of the coin. It seems inarguable to me that the coin was indeed net graded though, so I agree with you 100% that factors other than just sheer quality of remaining detail factor into a coin's grade……….I also agree that they should, so add "net grading" Barbers to the huge list of things Id like to improve my abilities in 2014.
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
You raise good points yourself JT ... I honestly think it was borderline upgradeable in NGC' opinion and this was the compromise. I don't quite see it the same way. I think the ED designation is to severe by the TPG definition but a lot of that is likely due to their guarantee where they will buy the coin back if it "turns" later .. I think that may persuade them to err on the side of caution.
Perhaps others could chime in with their opinions. Vern has seen this coin in hand - perhaps he can give his opinion on the coin
Just to clarify, I don't think the coin should be in a details holder…..not at all actually. Id say XF-40, with the concession that VF-35 would possibly fit if net grading were to come into play due to less than XF surface quality.
My confusion/disagreement with NGC's assessment of the coin is not centered on whether or not it belongs in a details holder, but rather why the knock all the way down to VF-30 when the coin so clearly displays XF detail on both sides? I agree with Scott that NGC likely thought a "details"designation to be too harsh (it would've been imo). But why 30? Again, the subtleties of "net grading" have not yet fully sunk in for me yet…..
I agree that hearing from others on the topic would be great.
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
JT/Scott - You both raise very good points, IMO, but the real bottom line in trying to understand what a grading service does, is that they are unregulated humans. They can do whatever they want in a subjective field (coin grading). This 97-S is easily an XF from a wear point of view, but on the day it was graded, the human (I don't think most coins get looked at by more than one grader), who made the call at NGC, decided to put it in a graded holder, but knock off 10-15 points. If resubmitted raw tomorrow, I'd say the coin might grade 40, but might just as easily come back "XF details, surface damage". My opinion is if you're going to put it in a graded holder, it has to be a 40. If one has to net grade it down that much, it should be in a "details" holder.
Vern l It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
Vern...I disagree with only 1 person looking at the coin...But! there could be the finalizer that trumps all though!
The 1 aspect no one is looking at here is what is the coin worth compared to others in the same grade...that is where market grading come into play. I think everyone will agree that all the services market grade to an extent...some more than others!
The grading services...all of them have been so all over the board with their opinions that their is no consistancy anymore. Even CAC in my opinion. I just received a submission back from our hosts that was graded like the rattler-old green holder days! When I can pull examples out of my inventory that are clearly worse in a higher grade holder....well I rest my case there!
In my opinion the ranges in grades rated as problem free are finally starting to surpass the 10 point margin from worst to best. What this will do is turn the grading services into an authenticty gaurantee holder...not the grade but the coin. Lets hope they don't become insurance companies.
Vern...That's a hard 96-S to evaluate on a computer screen! If I was going to buy by the pictures I would say ICG graded it 50-53 but our hosts would grade it 45 if it isn't a details coin!
O the 96-S I would say either Au 53 or AU Details It shows alot of scratches undrr the tail Feathers. Also the coin seems to have been improperly dipped. But I'm a rookie so I'm all over
Scott- FWIW I had a 1904-O that has been Net Graded as your 97-S has.when I sold it the buyer bought the coin not the holder so I was happy about it..I think ur 97-S is a superb coin u have obtained quite a few of those..
Comments
Latin American Collection
Hoard the keys
Pics for this AM, from the SAM collection, PC58:
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
Pics for tonight, a lustrous newp from Scott's collection, PC58:
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
The 93-S 1/2 is the king of the original toning collectors! I would buy it for the grade understanding it was given a notch up for it's originality!
Scott! That mustta been 1 of those big paperclips...but I agree with your thoughts. You just keep coming up with alot of nice coins!
Well! I did the dirty and got my results back from my reconsideration submission. Dang Vern...they wouldn't upgrade the 96-S. I guess they just don't like the original champagne toning. I had 13 coins from my collection reconsidered and got 3 upgraded. The 04-S and 15 made them worth while. My 11-D also upgraded. I was disappointed a few others didn't and had an ex barberite tell me today if I resubmitted my best date(97-O) 3 or 4 times it would! I kindda feel like if you use the reconsideration service once the axe has fallen!
Darrell - I have never submitted anything for reconsideration/upgade, and I don't claim to know anything about what would constitute a "successful" submission from a batting average standpoint, but 3/13 seems pretty decent to me (?) Sorry that the 97o didn't get the result you were after (this time).
I decided for various reasons to submit a fairly large batch of coins from my Library of Coins quarter album (12 in total) to our hosts at the Baltimore show. I was sad to "let them go" from the album, but I anticipate being able to add a few of them to my registry set and a few others will be sold or traded to help fund some very tough dates I hope to be able to acquire in the future . I decided for obvious reasons that these coins would be better off in PCGS plastic. It wasn't the first time I had submitted a coin from the album, but it was the first time so many came out all at once. Anyways, the LOC album remains enjoyable for me but it now currently houses just 19 coins, all VF or XF. The Fs have been or will be sold and the AU's were all submitted. It will probably be pretty slow goings for a while, but here is the newest pickup from Baltimore. I graded it XF40 when I bought it but I now say VF35 (lower headband line is broken). Regardless, it will reside comfortably where it is for a long time to come….
edited for spelling
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
Pics for today, two raw newps from Scott:
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
I just had a surprising (and awesome) experience not an hour ago at a local coin shop I visit about once every two to three months. I had gone in there simply to shoot the breeze with the owner and maybe pick through some 90% junk while doing so. This is a decent enough shop but he tends to focus more on ancients, foreign coins, and earlier copper. Owner is an honest, very intelligent guy who I enjoy talking to. He knows I love Barbers, but has never had anything in his Barber inventory that has peaked my interest. Today when I walked in he immediately went to the back to go get a coin he said he thought Id like. Turned out to be a very lustrous, nice golden colored 1912s quarter that we both agreed was a AU55. I purchased it from him in its raw condition at a price I consider to be better than fair and he agreed to submit it to our hosts for me next week as well. The coin certainly is far more appealing to me than my current '12s, so it was a great opportunity that fell right out of the sky. This was an exciting twist to what I thought would be a very routine visit to an LCS that is not 5 miles from my house.
Turned out to be a great day even in this God awful weather!
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
Pics for this AM, another newp from Scott's collection, PC55:
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
I sent those two raw quarters for opinions on quality and grade as I believe the ultimate unbiased opinions come before PCGS grades them. Both were purchased in September at the Manchester NH show. The 95-S is really nice and was being sold as an MS62. I looked at it for a solid 30 minutes before walking away to think about it (gambling no one else would buy it. He had dozens of mid grade to higher grade BQ). I returned after about an hour of thinking about it and it was still available. I looked at it again for another 10-15 minutes. After a brief negotiation, I bought it. I agreed with the grade at the show. Shortly thereafter I found and bought the 95-P which was also graded 62 by the dealer selling it. The 95-P has the very faint remnants of a fingerprint outlined in the toning on the upper right obverse. I found the outline to be so well blended in that it was insignificant to me; although the toning is a little irregular, the surfaces and luster were exceptional and the originality of the surfaces was undeniable. When I got home I later changed my mind grading the 95-S as a borderline 58+/62 that could go either way. Just a very few subtle wisps that could be construed as post mint handling; not slide marks or hair lines and nary any rub. The 1895-P I still feel is a 62. If I am correct, I believe Vern views these two just the opposite, calling the 95-S a 62 and the 95-P a 58 .. whatever the case, it is insignificant and the difference is negligible .. All that matters is they are nice coins; very appealing and purchased at a fraction of what they would yield if bought already in PCGS slabs
Boosibiri - I love that 93-S Half. Tom Bush is about as finicky as any I know when it comes to purchasing coins. While his prices are never modest, the quality is ALWAYS off the charts.
Nice coins as always JT and great story - passion is never lacking
Happy Turkey Day everyone
Vern...I already threw what money I am going to throw at them! They had their chance for their bonus and the time has passed!
I will say the coins that crossed were better than solid for the grade.
The ones that did not were solid for the grade they were in but would have been on the low end for the next bump. I have seen worse in a notch better
Hoard the keys
Pics for this AM, another newp Scott picked up right, NGC-30:
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
Hope everyone had a happy Thankgiving.
Paesan
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
It is the same coin - I described it as looking XF to a couple people here just before I bought it. And I stated after receiving the coin and viewing in hand that I agree with the grade (net grading to 30 is appropriate .. it's not so much the marks on the face which are less significant in hand with or without a loop - as usual the lens magnifies the flaws - It is more the borderline ED/very minor porosity/damp storage look .. But it was a decent looking coin for a date that is not available in droves in middle to upper circulated grades.
Even a couple of the AU's I had seen appeared either re-toned or lifeless and dull white in appearance. That coin was located about 2 months ago; I have since sent a 97-S/AU55 to the mid-west as we speak so I am beginning to attain a mini hoard
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
Paesan
Doug
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
NewP NGC-58
Hoard the keys
Pics for today, newp for Scott, PC53:
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
Got the results from a recent CAC submission back today. I know many here could care less about holders and stickers, and I respect the heck out of that. Many here who practice that approach are admittedly far more seasoned collectors than I am. Personally, I still like to see where my coins stand from an eye like JA's from time to time, and I appreciate the fact that the "beans" can add to a coins' value (although certainly not always, and the vast majority of the coins I submitted aren't going anywhere anytime soon). I haven't submitted many coins in the past, but in total 10/17 Barber quarters I had previously sent were given green stickers. This time I sent 12 coins and 11 were Barber quarters, and was happy to see that 9/11 received stickers. 7 of the 9 BQs are in my registry set. Some were tougher dates and some were what I thought were nice examples of fairly common dates/grades. A few are fairly recent newp's from some of you fellow Barberites. Results below (all coins in PC holders):
1892 S AU-58: Not approved
1893 AU-58: Not approved
1894 S AU-58 (former Walt/58quarters): Green sticker
1896 AU-58 (former Walt/58quarters): Green sticker
1902 O VF-25 (same coin I posted a few weeks ago): Green sticker….TBH I thought this coin would either get a gold sticker or not be approved at all. Shows what I know.
1903 S XF-45: Green sticker
1904 AU-50: Green sticker
1904 O AU-55: Green sticker
1905 AU-55 (former Walt/58quarters): Green sticker
1905 S AU-53 (purchased from Scott/SAM5969 via eBay): Green sticker
1909 O VG-10: Green sticker
I was pumped about these results alone, but even happier that the 12th coin and lone non-Barber I sent ended up with a gold sticker
JT
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
Paesan
Pics for this AM, another 97-S newp for Scott, PC55:
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
Here is a upgrade for my mint set. It replaces my 53.
I have been looking at this coin for a few months, and after much debate,
I pulled the trigger.
The coin was over priced, that's what took me so long, but I think she is worth it.
I can't wait to get the coin in hand. Seller pics are not that great, but neither are mine.
I hope the luster is all there..
Paesan
Thanks for all the recent comments folks .. Please keep in mind while Barberkeys calls them newps - 90% are NOT new purchase NEWPs .. they are New to BK
The 04-S half is a sweet coin in hand. I have come to really respect how difficult coin photography really is .. And even when done well, there simply is no comparison to coin in hand .. Just look at all the PO'd people who feel Heritage juiced the Newman coin photos resulting in Planet Pluto money for many. The 97-S quarter has a nice natural look and a sharp strike but the luster is definitely muted .. if you look at the surfaces under 5-10x there are quite a few micro abrasions .. No idea how they got there/what they're from .. they don't appear to be mishandling or "doctoring" or anything of malicious intent .. but I believe their presence interrupts the flow lines/metal reducing the luster substantially .. it has the luster of a nice 45 . Still a nice coin for one of the top 8 toughest dates in the series
* edited for grammar and spelling
Pics for tonight, another from Scott's collection, PC58:
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
Latin American Collection
XF detail very much like the 97-S Quarter I posted that was also graded VF-30 by Heritage a few weeks back .. At least NGC is consistent grading the XF detail Barbers with darker surfaces the same grade .. I like the look and love the conservative grading
Scott - Interesting thoughts regarding the net grading of both coins. Personally, I still don't get how your 97s is not in at least a 40 holder based on your pics. I will cede to your expertise and the fact that I have never seen the coin in hand, though. Always appreciate your honest assessments and analysis, fwiw.
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
Here is my own interpretation of grading:
I believe it goes beyond the physical checkpoints/guidelines laid out for a specific series. Photograde is a great pictorial mechanism for learning the physical requirements for a coin to "make the grade". But those attributes are only part of the criteria.
I believe that if the minimum physical requirements for a coin making a certain grade are not there, it could NEVER attain said grade. Conversely, just because all the physical characteristics ARE there, it only MAY grade as high as those attributes allow, but not necessarily. In other words, a coin having all the physical criteria required for a certain grade level, doesn't mean the coin will automatically grade at that level. I think some abstract values and interpretation must be factored in. Call it net grading if you will .. But I actually think it goes a little beyond that. The longer I held the coin in hand the more I agreed with the assigned grade. In summary I believe the total grade of the coin is comprised more of just the physical thresholds that define the grades. I believe those are guidelines and just that.
This is just my own interpretation of grading. I have never read or been told any of this. It is purely my own opinion and is derived from my own experience within the hobby - so please don't get yourself twisted like me listening to my jive turkey
Using your 97s as the example, it would seem to me that "net grading" it VF-30 based on the surface imperfections you describe was an alternative to NGC grading it "XF Details - Surface Damage". To me, that coin is XF all the way based on the highlights you covered in your description (and the pics). It may or may not be a PQ XF-40, but "net grading" all the way down to VF-30 based on surface quality (with the surfaces not being affected by a prior cleaning) seems to me to be a less than accurate snapshot of the coin. It seems inarguable to me that the coin was indeed net graded though, so I agree with you 100% that factors other than just sheer quality of remaining detail factor into a coin's grade……….I also agree that they should, so add "net grading" Barbers to the huge list of things Id like to improve my abilities in 2014.
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
Perhaps others could chime in with their opinions. Vern has seen this coin in hand - perhaps he can give his opinion on the coin
My confusion/disagreement with NGC's assessment of the coin is not centered on whether or not it belongs in a details holder, but rather why the knock all the way down to VF-30 when the coin so clearly displays XF detail on both sides? I agree with Scott that NGC likely thought a "details"designation to be too harsh (it would've been imo). But why 30? Again, the subtleties of "net grading" have not yet fully sunk in for me yet…..
I agree that hearing from others on the topic would be great.
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
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It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
Pics for tonight, how about guessing the grade on this ICG graded 96-S qtr, that belongs to a friend here in cold northern Illinois:
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It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
The 1 aspect no one is looking at here is what is the coin worth compared to others in the same grade...that is where market grading come into play. I think everyone will agree that all the services market grade to an extent...some more than others!
The grading services...all of them have been so all over the board with their opinions that their is no consistancy anymore. Even CAC in my opinion. I just received a submission back from our hosts that was graded like the rattler-old green holder days! When I can pull examples out of my inventory that are clearly worse in a higher grade holder....well I rest my case there!
In my opinion the ranges in grades rated as problem free are finally starting to surpass the 10 point margin from worst to best. What this will do is turn the grading services into an authenticty gaurantee holder...not the grade but the coin. Lets hope they don't become insurance companies.
Scott- FWIW I had a 1904-O that has been Net Graded as your 97-S has.when I sold it the buyer bought the coin not the holder so I was happy about it..I think ur 97-S is a superb coin u have obtained quite a few of those..
Hoard the keys