Vern - Thanks for the opinions. You guys are 100% right re: trying to predict PCGS results. Certainly this experienced has helped sharpen my mindset regarding future TPG submissions. Also, I really like your new 93s fwiw. Sweet coin!
Scott - Thanks and I agree that the 98 that I posted is by far the nicest of that lot. I am normally am very wary about bidding on "shiny" raw coins with off of eBay with the expectation that they could possibly be original, but in this case the seller had excellent pictures and I thought it after careful inspection that it was likely a nice original AU 55-58. The coin ended up definitely being a 55 but exceeded my expectations nonetheless. Also, your new 98s is absolutely awesome to my eyes. And I mean awesome. I figured that a forum member was the winning bidder on that one. I am a sucker for the color on that beauty. Congrats and I hope the coin meets your expectations. Between the 98s and your relatively new 06o, you have knocked out some really tough dates in awesome style imo. And thats just with quarters…...
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
Craig - I actually had received the 98-S/58 quarter the day I posted the reply to JTs thread .. My scatterbrained, ADD brain ran multiple thoughts together in one run on sentence and one paragraph. I was referencing JTs 1898 quarter in that same thought.
I like the new 98-S although I am certain it has been dipped before and has re-toned .. My other 98-S, a 55, has a far different look - depth of aged toning is easily confirmed over very thick, aged original surfaces. Dirt is buried deeply into the cracks and crevices further attesting to the coins originality. A small dirt spot on the cheek may be a detraction for some collectors. Luster is there albeit muted; there is a nice light and delicate "wet" bronze/gold luster to the devices.
HLRC was selling a 98-S in 63 a couple months ago.. I almost bought it several times.. I wasn't thrilled with its appearance based on the image .. As time has passed I feel I should have pulled the trigger. If anyone bought that coin I'd love to hear your opinion or see a new image
This recent eBay newp arrived in the mail yesterday. Was happy to snag it at what I consider to be a bargain price. First center mint mark specimen Ive ever owned. I grade nice, original, honestly circulated G-4. Happy to have one of these in my collection at any grade.
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Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
I have posted a help thread on a 1896-s barber quarter I'm looking to purchase along with a 1897-s half dollar under US coins topic. Looking for help with authenticity. I would have posted here first, but I am a newb and didn't notice the barber mega thread till I finished my posting. Thanks for any help in advance! Glad to be a part of this wonderful series of Barbers
Thanks!
Jake
JG Numismatics Check out: coinsinnh.com or just type in JGnumismatics into google PCGS/NGC Authorized Dealer CAC Authorized Dealer ANA Member CSNS Member FUN Member Roundtable Trading member
References: USMarine6,Commoncents05,Timbuk3, lunytune2,Goldcoin98, and many more
Jake - Welcome to the barber mega thread. Just looked at your other thread, and you did very well to seek opinions before buying those two coins, which are unquestionably fake. I'd suggest sticking to certified coins, especially expensive ones.
Vern l It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
Mark - Thanks re: my new 97s center mm. I was lucky to make it out despite lousy pics and no mention of the center mm in the write up. FWIW I agree that this 00s looks dipped but Ill guess 58 based on it being in an NGC holder.
Justin - Sweet half dollar. Love that look.
Craig - Ill second Lenny's "stunning" description of your 09o. Congrats!
Last night my wife and I had some family over to celebrate my dad's birthday as well as mine. His is on the 21st and mine is the 26th. Was pretty pumped to see that my wife's gift to me was a plane ticket to Orlando and a hotel for a night, so Ill be flying into Orlando Thursday night, at FUN for the first time for basically the entire day on Friday, and flying back to DC on Friday night (after the BCCS meeting of course). Coolest gift Ive received in a long time!
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
A. You can't grade from pix. That's been proven - see any number of threads of GTG on the open us coin forum and find any number of grade ranges of 30 points guessed by myriad experienced veteran collectors (not counting the splits between ungradeable/problem vs "problem free").
B. Grading is subjective amongst experts. Same AU coin submitted raw 10 times range will be 5 points spread. It's a question as to whether or not the coin in question has been "maxed out" or not
C. I can only speak for myself, but I find NGC more conservative and more consistent particularly lately
Mark, From your pictures I do not think the coin has been dipped. Possibly needs a bit more luster to grade higher. My experience is the biggest determiner in grade from 53-58 is more weighted towards luster!
I agree with both Darrell and Lenny on each respective point. Although I can't tell from those images if that coin has been dipped or not recently (my opinion is that 95% of coins that are 100 yrs old or older have been dipped at some point.)
Luster is #1 criteria for AU Buy PCGS/CAC coins I f that's what you want
I personally don't care about CAC. I don't like to limit the field of what I can or will buy. While I prefer coins to be graded by PCGS only because they are ultimately more liquid, I almost never buy a coin thinking about an "exit strategy". Unless I see a coin vastly under priced for the holder it's in, I'm almost always adding it to my collection anyway.
Of the ten or so CAC approved coins I currently own, less than half are in my top 10% favorites. One, a 1901/55 is over dipped and lackluster, although it is bright (a teletrade purchase from long ago .. Their scans were awful. Crap shoot buying stuff from TT ). And it's not like the coin "turned" as the graded holder was brand new at the time it stickered and I bought it. It has looked the same since I bought it.
I very much try and buy a coin if the coin meets and/or exceeds my personal tastes/criteria. It may be cliche but it's the truth. Of the last 10 coins I've bought I think 3 are PCGS graded. 3 were raw, 3 were NGC, one was in a third world holder (a 1902-S Unc that didn't turn out as well as I hoped. Bought right so getting out should be simple enough. All the others were wonderful coins with desirable qualities
Mark- my guess is a 53, but I'm guessing NGC gave it a 55. JKT- Glad you will be making the trip.Sounds like your wife nailed it. Lots of good points here. Looking forward to making the trip down I-4 and putting some faces to the names.
Sam...I have always told anyone who asked me about dipping....How can a 100 year old coin remain blast white without being dipped? Look how quickly your silverware tones. I am a firm believer as you are ,that the majority have been dipped! The key point is...has it impaired the luster alias been dipped too long or too many times.
JKT, Great you are able to make it to FUN for your 1st time! You will be overwhelmed and find your time very short with just 1 day. If you get the chance I will be set up at table 445. Stop buy and say hello! I hope I can make the meeting...last year I was just too busy to get away from my table.
Mark - One day a coin is a 53, the next a 55. All on the whim of the grader at the TPG.
JT - Congrats on the super gift. I'm sure you'll pick up some nice additions to your collection there.
Pics for tonight, from Scott's collection, a half with slightly unusual toning, that I personally like. It looks neater in hand than my pics allow, PC55:
Vern l It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
<< <i>Barber Buddies- Merry Christmas To Everyone!! Also is the 1897-S Center MM More valuable and rare than a regular. And in all conditions? >>
Merry Christmas! The centered MM is a fun cherry pick by all of those knowledgeable about the date. But the premium right now is rather small. There aren't enough people actively seeking it. I do however feel this may change soon. There's been a half dozen threads on this variety over the last couple of years, and close to nothing mentioned of it before then. So it'll just take some piquing of interest by several people to get the fire started.
For Christmas I got a black screen on my notebook . .. Google/YouTube says I need to "Flash the bios"..
JKT- enjoy the FUN show
97-S CMM premium really starts in Fine and quickly escalates from there as Darrell stated. 10-30% in the G/VG grades Patches had his PCGS G6 on the BST for $150 I believe. He can elaborate
Tom Bush posted his raw VF several times as did I (Horner NGC 40 now P-35). Aside from the two AUs and these two I haven't seen any other in any grades above G. I've seen several low grade or problem CMM coins Although Tom Bush conducted a well done experiment and survey and concluded the total percentage of 97-S quarters with the CMM to be around 5%, I tend to believe it may be slightly higher than the 5%, but less than 10%.
Thanks for the well wishes on the FUN show. I am really excited (and grateful to my awesome wife)! Will certainly stop by Darrell's table and look forward to seeing others as well.
I have read Tom Bush's writeup on the 97s center mm. It was very well researched and extremely interesting to read. I am unfortunately unable to add any new information to what Tom presented and some snippets from the board, including some excellent prior posts from Scott on the topic. For what its worth I agree 100% with Patches' post above……….
I don't know much about the premiums out there for the lower grades either right now, but I can say that I bought the coin I posted on the last page of this thread for $82 after winning an eBay no reserve auction for it. Id consider this to be a decent fair market price for the coin in the far right MM position. While certainly a lucky occurrence in this particular instance, I do think it speaks to the overall lack of awareness amongst more casual collectors about the center mm. There was no mention of the center mintmark anywhere in the listing, and I highly doubt that I was bidding against anyone who was going after the center MM. I believe that if you run an eBay search for "97s Barber quarter, center" or even "97s Barber quarter, mint mark" right now you will find zero matches. This is not to say that the 97s center MMs aren't out there, it's just that there surely aren't many people aware of their rareness right now. Otherwise, they would be marketed more, especially on a venue like eBay, where there are "rare" 1916 D/D quarters and "key date" 1899 quarters everywhere.
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
While the center mm 97s quarter is certaintly interesting, I'm going to borrow the old adage that the only thing scarcer than they are may be collectors needing one. I think most collectors would be more than happy to find and own a nice original coin of this tough issue regardless of mm position.
Toms information was a writeup here on the forums, type 1897 into the search feature on U.S. Coin Forum and it'll be near the top along with other threads.
<< <i>While the center mm 97s quarter is certaintly interesting, I'm going to borrow the old adage that the only thing scarcer than they are may be collectors needing one. I think most collectors would be more than happy to find and own a nice original coin of this tough issue regardless of mm position. >>
This. In several dates in the series there are many positions of mm. The David Lawrence book is chock full of illustrations, but that's not news. Just still not sure why the 1897 centered s is so mythic. It's not an error, nor even much of a design variety. I'd say its a diagnostic for authenticity. But things build I suppose. That's the nature of collecting.
We're all born MS70. I'm about a Fine 15 right now.
<< <i>While the center mm 97s quarter is certaintly interesting, I'm going to borrow the old adage that the only thing scarcer than they are may be collectors needing one. I think most collectors would be more than happy to find and own a nice original coin of this tough issue regardless of mm position. >>
This. In several dates in the series there are many positions of mm. The David Lawrence book is chock full of illustrations, but that's not news. Just still not sure why the 1897 centered s is so mythic. It's not an error, nor even much of a design variety. I'd say its a diagnostic for authenticity. But things build I suppose. That's the nature of collecting. >>
It's a fun variety because it is very scarce. So scarce it didn't even make David Lawrence's 1st edition on the guide to Barber Quarters. The knowledge that has been shared by members of the frequency it turns up, puts it at a mintage less than the 1913-S, and on par with each of the 2 mint mark locations of the 13-S. Now don't get me wrong, the value and premium shouldn't be that significant on it. There are far more collectors seeking in a 1913-S over a centered mint mark 1897-S. But it is a fairly recent discovery, and examples haven't been diligently saved of it.
Comments
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Vern - Thanks for the opinions. You guys are 100% right re: trying to predict PCGS results. Certainly this experienced has helped sharpen my mindset regarding future TPG submissions. Also, I really like your new 93s fwiw. Sweet coin!
Scott - Thanks and I agree that the 98 that I posted is by far the nicest of that lot. I am normally am very wary about bidding on "shiny" raw coins with off of eBay with the expectation that they could possibly be original, but in this case the seller had excellent pictures and I thought it after careful inspection that it was likely a nice original AU 55-58. The coin ended up definitely being a 55 but exceeded my expectations nonetheless.
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
I was referencing JTs 1898 quarter in that same thought.
I like the new 98-S although I am certain it has been dipped before and has re-toned .. My other 98-S, a 55, has a far different look - depth of aged toning is easily confirmed over very thick, aged original surfaces. Dirt is buried deeply into the cracks and crevices further attesting to the coins originality. A small dirt spot on the cheek may be a detraction for some collectors. Luster is there albeit muted; there is a nice light and delicate "wet" bronze/gold luster to the devices.
HLRC was selling a 98-S in 63 a couple months ago.. I almost bought it several times.. I wasn't thrilled with its appearance based on the image .. As time has passed I feel I should have pulled the trigger. If anyone bought that coin I'd love to hear your opinion or see a new image
Pics for tonight, another beauty from the Iowa collection, PC58:
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
Pics for today, a rare coin from the Paesan collection, PC58:
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
Hoard the keys
____________
Craig
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
Thanks!
Jake
Check out:
coinsinnh.com
or just type in JGnumismatics into google
PCGS/NGC Authorized Dealer
CAC Authorized Dealer
ANA Member
CSNS Member
FUN Member
Roundtable Trading member
References: USMarine6,Commoncents05,Timbuk3, lunytune2,Goldcoin98, and many more
You can look but, currently, it's not for sale. It's a AU 58 and it took years to find it.
Good luck.
_______________
Craig
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
There seems to be a shortage of halves in this thread lately. Here is one I bought quite a while ago, but never shared here. Very nice original coin.
Doug
Amwld: ..Thanks a bunch
_____________
Craig
Paesan
Paesan ...The 1909-O is a favorite, great date. Take a look at one of the replacements I added.
_______________
Craig
Craig- Beautifully Toned 09-O. Is it a 65?or higher
Hoard the keys
Craig: stunning 09-O!
Doug: the 08 on previous page is outstanding.
Justin: you've got the eye for circ coins! Love the 96-S!
Paesan
Hoard the keys
Justin - Sweet half dollar. Love that look.
Craig - Ill second Lenny's "stunning" description of your 09o. Congrats!
Last night my wife and I had some family over to celebrate my dad's birthday as well as mine. His is on the 21st and mine is the 26th. Was pretty pumped to see that my wife's gift to me was a plane ticket to Orlando and a hotel for a night, so Ill be flying into Orlando Thursday night, at FUN for the first time for basically the entire day on Friday, and flying back to DC on Friday night (after the BCCS meeting of course). Coolest gift Ive received in a long time!
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
Hoard the keys
My opinion on grading (again):
A. You can't grade from pix. That's been proven - see any number of threads of GTG on the open us coin forum and find any number of grade ranges of 30 points guessed by myriad experienced veteran collectors (not counting the splits between ungradeable/problem vs "problem free").
B. Grading is subjective amongst experts. Same AU coin submitted raw 10 times range will be 5 points spread. It's a question as to whether or not the coin in question has been "maxed out" or not
C. I can only speak for myself, but I find NGC more conservative and more consistent particularly lately
Merry Christmas
Over and out
Paesan
Luster is #1 criteria for AU
Buy PCGS/CAC coins I f that's what you want
I personally don't care about CAC. I don't like to limit the field of what I can or will buy. While I prefer coins to be graded by PCGS only because they are ultimately more liquid, I almost never buy a coin thinking about an "exit strategy". Unless I see a coin vastly under priced for the holder it's in, I'm almost always adding it to my collection anyway.
Of the ten or so CAC approved coins I currently own, less than half are in my top 10% favorites. One, a 1901/55 is over dipped and lackluster, although it is bright (a teletrade purchase from long ago .. Their scans were awful. Crap shoot buying stuff from TT ). And it's not like the coin "turned" as the graded holder was brand new at the time it stickered and I bought it. It has looked the same since I bought it.
I very much try and buy a coin if the coin meets and/or exceeds my personal tastes/criteria. It may be cliche but it's the truth. Of the last 10 coins I've bought I think 3 are PCGS graded. 3 were raw, 3 were NGC, one was in a third world holder (a 1902-S Unc that didn't turn out as well as I hoped. Bought right so getting out should be simple enough. All the others were wonderful coins with desirable qualities
JKT- Glad you will be making the trip.Sounds like your wife nailed it.
Lots of good points here.
Looking forward to making the trip down I-4 and putting some faces to the names.
Craig - Nice keys, really nice look on your 09-O.
Mark - One day a coin is a 53, the next a 55. All on the whim of the grader at the TPG.
JT - Congrats on the super gift. I'm sure you'll pick up some nice additions to your collection there.
Pics for tonight, from Scott's collection, a half with slightly unusual toning, that I personally like. It looks neater in hand than my pics allow, PC55:
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
Hoard the keys
<< <i>Barber Buddies- Merry Christmas To Everyone!! Also is the 1897-S Center MM More valuable and rare than a regular. And in all conditions? >>
Merry Christmas! The centered MM is a fun cherry pick by all of those knowledgeable about the date. But the premium right now is rather small. There aren't enough people actively seeking it. I do however feel this may change soon. There's been a half dozen threads on this variety over the last couple of years, and close to nothing mentioned of it before then. So it'll just take some piquing of interest by several people to get the fire started.
<< <i>Barber Buddies- Merry Christmas To Everyone!! Also is the 1897-S Center MM More valuable and rare than a regular. And in all conditions? >>
Merry Chritmas to you and everyone else here also!
The premium on the centered MM increases as the grade goes up. I would say your coin would command a 10-20% premium based on my experience.
For Christmas I got a black screen on my notebook
JKT- enjoy the FUN show
97-S CMM premium really starts in Fine and quickly escalates from there as Darrell stated. 10-30% in the G/VG grades
Patches had his PCGS G6 on the BST for $150 I believe. He can elaborate
Tom Bush posted his raw VF several times as did I (Horner NGC 40 now P-35). Aside from the two AUs and these two I haven't seen any other in any grades above G. I've seen several low grade or problem CMM coins
Although Tom Bush conducted a well done experiment and survey and concluded the total percentage of 97-S quarters with the CMM to be around 5%, I tend to believe it may be slightly higher than the 5%, but less than 10%.
Thanks for the well wishes on the FUN show. I am really excited (and grateful to my awesome wife)! Will certainly stop by Darrell's table and look forward to seeing others as well.
I have read Tom Bush's writeup on the 97s center mm. It was very well researched and extremely interesting to read. I am unfortunately unable to add any new information to what Tom presented and some snippets from the board, including some excellent prior posts from Scott on the topic. For what its worth I agree 100% with Patches' post above……….
I don't know much about the premiums out there for the lower grades either right now, but I can say that I bought the coin I posted on the last page of this thread for $82 after winning an eBay no reserve auction for it. Id consider this to be a decent fair market price for the coin in the far right MM position. While certainly a lucky occurrence in this particular instance, I do think it speaks to the overall lack of awareness amongst more casual collectors about the center mm. There was no mention of the center mintmark anywhere in the listing, and I highly doubt that I was bidding against anyone who was going after the center MM. I believe that if you run an eBay search for "97s Barber quarter, center" or even "97s Barber quarter, mint mark" right now you will find zero matches. This is not to say that the 97s center MMs aren't out there, it's just that there surely aren't many people aware of their rareness right now. Otherwise, they would be marketed more, especially on a venue like eBay, where there are "rare" 1916 D/D quarters and "key date" 1899 quarters everywhere.
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
Hoard the keys
Hoard the keys
Tom's Thread
Tom's Thread Too
Scott's Thread
Brett's Thread
Dan's Thread
Hoard the keys
<< <i>While the center mm 97s quarter is certaintly interesting, I'm going to borrow the old adage that the only thing scarcer than they are may be collectors needing one. I think most collectors would be more than happy to find and own a nice original coin of this tough issue regardless of mm position. >>
This.
In several dates in the series there are many positions of mm. The David Lawrence book is chock full of illustrations, but that's not news.
Just still not sure why the 1897 centered s is so mythic. It's not an error, nor even much of a design variety. I'd say its a diagnostic for authenticity.
But things build I suppose. That's the nature of collecting.
<< <i>
<< <i>While the center mm 97s quarter is certaintly interesting, I'm going to borrow the old adage that the only thing scarcer than they are may be collectors needing one. I think most collectors would be more than happy to find and own a nice original coin of this tough issue regardless of mm position. >>
This.
In several dates in the series there are many positions of mm. The David Lawrence book is chock full of illustrations, but that's not news.
Just still not sure why the 1897 centered s is so mythic. It's not an error, nor even much of a design variety. I'd say its a diagnostic for authenticity.
But things build I suppose. That's the nature of collecting. >>
It's a fun variety because it is very scarce. So scarce it didn't even make David Lawrence's 1st edition on the guide to Barber Quarters. The knowledge that has been shared by members of the frequency it turns up, puts it at a mintage less than the 1913-S, and on par with each of the 2 mint mark locations of the 13-S. Now don't get me wrong, the value and premium shouldn't be that significant on it. There are far more collectors seeking in a 1913-S over a centered mint mark 1897-S. But it is a fairly recent discovery, and examples haven't been diligently saved of it.
Pics for this AM, a 97-S acquired raw many years ago, now PC55:
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
Hoard the keys