<< <i>"Speaking of 1910-D Quarters, I have found this date to be another of the over rated dates. Not as much as the 1911-D or 1904-O as it does fly under the radar in the shadows of the previously mentioned dates amongst several others .. For whatever reason, I have seen a lot of this date and find it to be bordering on common myself. Maybe R-2 is accurate IMO This 1910-D replaced graded AU55 is a nice originally skinned quarter.. The spots seen in the image are barely noticeable in hand .. Although I grade it AU53 as there is a little more wear than what I would expect on a 55, I still consider the coin to be very appealing. Considering who auctioned it, I was surprised when it closed sold several months ago for $250 .."
Nice 10-D's! I agree on the sentiment, Scott...I think they're readily available. >>
I guess since I have only been searching and collecting Barber Quarters for about 6 months I haven't had the access to the quantities that you fellas have. Including scotts images I have only found 4 1910-D AU quarters 2. 2 were at KK TeaParty and JT now has 1 of those and the other 1 was on Heritage a few months ago. That's why I like this Thread, I learn so much thru you guys and hopefully soon I will have educated myself enough to engage in more Conversations
Re: The 1910 D, I do agree that they have been readily available on the market for what seems like a while now. I also agree with Scott in that I was surprised to see DK's PC55 end up going for what I thought was a low price. That said, according to Coinfacts, PCGS has graded 13 55's and 12 58's. These are relatively low numbers if you compare them to the series in general, and would certainly seem to make it more difficult than R2. This brings to question, should rarity ratings be based only on population figures, or on how readily available they are on the market? If it's the former, than Id say the 10d is more like R4 in nice AU. If it's the latter, than Id agree with Scott's R2 assessment……maybe R3. Just my humble opinion.
Here is tougher date that I was also thrilled to pick up at FUN, also from Teaparty. I had a 55 of my own which was a white coin with a lot of luster but a "blast white" look that I don't much enjoy, and I was really happy to make a trade with the good folks at Teaparty to get my hands on this one. Probably used to be in The Stash PC55
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Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
A quick exceprt at the half of the Pats/Colts game .. another playoff safety against ? Really ..??
Mark - You can carry, start, participate or comment on any conversation - your passion and knowledge and conduct are enjoyable IMO - please don't slow down - 50% of what we say is just opinion - when someone is stating what they believe to be facts, usually it can be identified easily -
Nice one 99-S JT - The members know my opinion of that date as I have mentioned it more than my ex-wife used to nag me to take out the garbage
I think you may be correct in your assumption re the 99-S but I will let those in the know chime in as they please
Regarding the 10-D it's all relative - I could say the 95-S is an easier date than most as I have four slabbed and two raw a VF, XF, 2 AU and two MS, one is the S/S variety but I still consider that one to be one of the toughies .. I think it is mostly opinion and they're all overall relatively difficulty is similar in general ...
If I understand correctly, the RR were assessed from a poll some 5 years ago and used raw coins along with any grading service as they were compiled via all BCCS collectors.
My "theory" is: Much like what happened with Barber Halves in the past 4-5 years, the same applies to the BQ. That is, they were never slabbed as the cost of the slabbing never warranted it. And a lot of the BQ in XF/AU have ben well under $200 until very recently . Common Barber Halves in VF were available for around $50-$75 some 4-5 years ago .. Not many were slabbed and slab premium made those numbers closer to $100 .. They caught fire and prices went up as the supply of PCGS halves was not enough to meet demand. In the last 2 years or so, the number of slabbed mid grade halves exploded and we have seen the tide subside some. I think the BQ, while not as much as the BH, are approaching this phenomenon
Hahaha I have read some of your previous posts about the 99s, Scott. Can't say that I disagree, with the caveat that many of the easily found AU examples tend to be blast white.
I remember Doug (I think) posted his rarity ratings a while back and its definitely worth bookmarking for those who've never seen it. If memory serves its on page 60 or 61 of this thread. Off the top of my head, to me some of the more difficult dates (or seldom seen in nice original XF/AU) right now recently outside of the more commonly considered "tough dates" are the '94, '00 O (not blast white), and '03. Others may think I am nuts, but I just haven't seen many. Scott wisely pointed out how much individual perspective factors into "rarity".
One more thing about pop reports, though. I went to a smaller but always fun show today about an hour from my house and had an interesting conversation with a dealer Ive come to know pretty well and have purchased many quality VG/F BQs from in the past few years. I basically told him that I thought that the 1901 P and the 1905 P were two of the most routinely overpriced coins in the series in lower grades, and that I thought it was all based on the gray sheet listing both coins at much higher than "common" prices, and nothing to do with supply. He didn't necessarily disagree with my point that they were always available, yet raw VGs are routinely priced in the $25-30 range both on eBay and at shows. I realize that the gray sheet is just a guide, and is also often a very valuable tool. There are just so many coins in the series that I think are much tougher than the 01 and 05 in VG, yet are priced at less than 50% of both. Anyways, just rambling a bit…..
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
I agree with you that the 94, 00-O, and 03 are tough dates and much harder to find than what would be expected, as are so many of the dates in the barber quarter series. Scott also made a very good point as to personal perspective and experience in relative rarity.
My thoughts as to what constitutes over-rated/ under rated dates in the series are:
An over-rated date is one that is regularly available on the market, has plentiful numbers certified by the grading services, is regularly touted by some collectors and dealers as being scarce, and most importantly, generally sells for prices exceeding that of dates of similar scarcity. Two examples that come to mind in my opinion are the 99-S and 04-O. There must have been 10 or more AU 99-S quarters that came to auction in 2013 alone. I've never understood why the 04-O often sells for much more than other similar dates such as the 02-O and 03-O. I will admit that finding a choice original example of either date is a challenge. I'm still looking for the right AU55-58 99-S quarter. Conversely, I don't consider the 10-D particularly over-rated because of it's more modest price and the fact that I rarely hear collectors mentioning it as a scarce date.
Under-rated dates are sometimes surprisingly infrequently available and often sell for modest premiums when available. Some of the many under-rated dates in the series in my opinion are: 94, 95, 96, 01, 02-S, 03, 03-S, 05-S, 06-O, 07-S, and 09-S. I still consider the 95-S to be under-rated even though a few pieces sold for strong money in 2013.
Ok fEllas what is yalls opinion on the 1898-O and 08-S? I'm thinking I am going to get those dates In Vf-30 to Xf-45. Do yall think they r gna be Tough to get a original problem free example?
a nice 1908-S is probably a little harder than the 1898-O...but both should be available within a one year span for a nice specimen. good luck with the hunt!
Good luck with the 08'S...I paid over $110 for a raw VF-30 (my grade) over 9 years ago got it graded by PCGS as a VF-25,some of the coins I see online are that are slabbed are overgraded in my opinion .And the ones I see raw are well,just awful.Same can be said for coin shows and and B@Ms.......just my experiences.
Redglobe- I agree with you on the tougher coins seem to be a grade higher than wat I think they are. I am a pretty tough critic on the Vf-AU coins good luck to you As well
My 98O and 08S came out of the same set, freshly broken up at FUN a couple years ago....as I sort of lucked into them, finding them w/o specifically hunting for them, I'm not sure about their scarcity, but I do know I don't see them around like other coins. I did see a primo 08S at FUN this year, a stone cold original gray VF that I would've picked it, but as it was priced way more than what I paid for the one I already own, I passed.
Mark - I have seen several nice 1908-S Quarters myself in the VF30-35 range the past year .. I have seen some butt-ugly ones too .. I sold a gorgeous original in 35 to a forumite some time ago - I will leave it up to him if he wishes to post it .. a little patience should yield good results - Similar with the 98-O ..But the key is waiting for the right coin to come along - and then being ready and willing to step up and pay a little extra for the quality .. Most times it comes down to paying the premium for the PQ coin which could be $100-$250 more than the average or over graded/net graded example. You almost always get what you pay for - the dealer/collector selling the PQ coin almost always knows what they have and they will hold out/command PQ money. At the end of the day, when you look back, you will be happy you made the right choice. Trust me - Ben there. Done that.
Many dealers have posted both of these coin in VF30-VF35 the past year .. They both seem significantly more difficult in true XF - good luck!!
OK - I will play .. Below is data straight from PCGS.com. I set the filter to run a little over 2 years - Aug. 2011 - Nov. 2013 - Link to those results. I will also post the table for convenience to view. This is for all 1899-S public auction results for only AU grades:
PCGS# Date Price Grade Svc Firm Sale Venue Lot # MY COMMENT
5624 Nov-2013 $441 AU55 NGC Heritage 2013 November 1 - 3 US Coin Signature Auction - New York #1191 7592 Very White 5624 Sep-2013 $92 AU50 NGC Heritage Internet Coin Auction #131340 22712 Cleaned (AU Detail) - Very White & Ugly 5624 Jul-2013 $705 AU58 PCGS Heritage 2013 July 11 - 14 US Coins Signature Auction - Orlando #1187 7774 Very White 5624 Apr-2013 $1,237 AU58 PCGS eBay eBay Sales in April, 2013 240 This was a nice coin - Sold from Europe. No access to lot now but appeared to be wholesome original coin
5624 Apr-2013 $558 AU55 PCGS Heritage 2013 April 24 - 28 CSNS US Coin Signature Auction - Chicago #1184 8071 Scruffy White and unappealing coin 5624 Feb-2013 $1,210 AU58 PCGS eBay eBay Sales in February, 2013 138 Vaguely recall but no notes recorded. No comment 5624 Feb-2013 $176 AU50 NGC Heritage Internet Coin Auction #131307 26125 AU Detail. Battleship grey. Prob AU50 details. 5624 Jan-2013 $499 AU53 NGC Heritage 2013 January 9-14 US Coin FUN Signature Auction - Orlando #1181 9990 Light grey. Images indicative of lightly dipped but decent 5624 Jan-2013 $141 AU50 NGC Heritage Internet Coin Auction #131303 29089 AU (50) details - Grey color - retoned splotchy. Ugly. 5624 Sep-2012 $259 AU50 NGC Heritage 2012 September 6-9 US Coins Signature Auction- Long Beach #1174 8085 AU50 straight grade - Grey - Average appearance for grade 5624 Aug-2012 $575 AU58 PCGS Teletrade Auction 3335 1757 I was under bidder here - Was told by winner coin very original and nice and images while hard to confirm would lead one to suspect nice surfaces, color and luster.
5624 Aug-2012 $489 AU55 PCGS Teletrade Auction 3335 1756 One of 3 coins auctioned weeks apart: Whitish, dipped out looking 5624 Aug-2012 $414 AU53 PCGS Teletrade Auction 3335 1755 TT photos so bad .. Another whitish dipped looking piece. Blah 5624 Apr-2012 $675 AU55 PCGS Teletrade Auction 3262 1399 Colorfully toned piece - Stash coin IIRC 5624 Oct-2011 $230 AU58 ANACS Heritage Internet Coin Auction #131143 28268 AU58 details - Very lustrous (and freshly dipped). Looks like it would straight grade today at PCGS based solely on the image and IMO
5624 Aug-2011 $1,725 AU58 PCGS Heritage 2011 August Chicago Signature US Coin & Platinum Night Auction #1158 9966 Nice, creamy luster. Mostly white but appears to be "the right white". Ex-MFH coin IIRC
These are just public auctions - there have ben numerous private sales .. I have bought two from dealers directly and have seen others at several shows. Available - yes Available nice - Not so much
Let me add AU58s have been sold for $1200-$1200-$1750 round numbers - and they usually sell for similar money as MS61-62 in general. AU58 is a funny grade ... The gem sliders (maybe 15% of all AU58 are worth far more than most MS62 but the other AU58 are usually MS net graded coins .. Plastic buyers should be MOST careful buying AU58 plastic. The prices get driven way up and often times end up way over priced. The Gem sliders are absolutely worth it - but again, they are the minority of coins in this grade).
The MS62 below was also $1200 and it is leaps and bounds nicer than any AU I have yet to see. The $1750 from 2011 was more money than the MS64 I handled at the March Baltimore show.. Bozarth was selling it - it went through Vic's hands to my hands to Tom Smith and finally sold on eBay for $2500. That was a VERY nice coin .. Same money as the Aug 2011 AU58 too ...
High pops are also misleading as the slabbing popularity is still a relatively new concept .. Really only the past several years have most AU coins been worth slabbing .. Many are still raw .. The 1899-S and 1900-S are both very available up to AU .. Both are much more difficult in MS60 or finer .. I have seen dozens of 1900-S in XF/AU to every one I see in MS.... I don't hold the pops as gospel or with as much weight as others may .. I think those numbers are quite misleading - there are too many coins not seen as being worth slabbing .. the 98% of the collector/dealer base out there are not in tune enough with the BQ series and rely on generic price guides and info such as Greysheet, PCGS guide, etc.
One of my 1899-S is this MS62. It is pop 2 with 34 finer. And might I add .. amongst my most favorite pieces for it's purely original surfaces, natural light toning and popping luster ... Vern posted an image of this coin some time ago. Vern's blessed with great photography skills for coins. Even these photos don't show the pop of the luster as much as it exists - the color and texture are spot on - this coin is anything but white .. it is very wholesome, attractive and appealing
Doug - Good explanation and FWIW I like and agree with your thinking on over/underrated. You named a lot of the tough dates right now. To me, there is a "Big Three" in the Barber quarter series that ranks a slight notch below the three obvious keys if we are talking XF/AU. If I were to kind of spitball it right now off the top of my head, Id put the top "toughest" 25% or so of Barber quarters something like this (in XF/AU). This is based on my own observations in the past 18-24 months or so…..others who attend huge shows all year will likely have a much better perspective than me. This is based on what I see at 2-3 big shows a year and constant online awareness (to the best of my abilities).
1. 1901 S (I know a few AU's auctioned recently, but still… 2. 1913 S 3. 1909 O 4. 1914 S 5. 1896 S 6. 1907 S 7. 1897 S 8. 1911 S 9. 1906 O 10. 1895 S (tie) 10. 1896 O (tie) 11. 1903 S 12. 1909 S 13. 1901 O 14. 1905 O 15. 1898 O 16. 1905 S 17. 1907 O 18. 1908 S 19. 1912 S 20. 1894
There are probably some glaring flaws here that Ill realize after I post, but I promise not to edit ….Again this is for the past couple of years only. (Say since 1/1/12) Anyone can please feel free to add to or rip apart at your leisure for discussions sake.
Scott - Data is king. Good information. To me, the takeaway seems to be that if one is seeking to "fill the hole", the 99 S is not particularly difficult. However, finding an appealing coin in original condition is more of a challenge, and when they arise they are often bid up or retailed much higher because of the perceived difficulty of the date.
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
<< <i>To me, the takeaway seems to be that if one is seeking to "fill the hole", the 99 S is not particularly difficult. However, finding an appealing coin in original condition is more of a challenge, >>
This is very true. I would add that this is also very true for every coin with a few exceptions of the ultra common pieces (e.g. 1907, 1912, 16-D, etc.)
Interesting list, JKT. Thanks for sharing your observations and opinion. Kinda surprised the 97O didn't make the top 20? The (somewhat) old BCCS ratings has this date as R5 in both XF and AU.... in any event I wouldn't put it too far from the 960, and certainly well ahead of some others you have listed toward the bottom. But I'm more of spectator and open to new data
<< <i>nteresting list, JKT. Thanks for sharing your observations and opinion. Kinda surprised the 97O didn't make the top 20? The (somewhat) old BCCS ratings has this date as R5 in both XF and AU.... in any event I wouldn't put it too far from the 960, and certainly well ahead of some others you have listed toward the bottom. But I'm more of spectator and open to new data >>
The 93-S, 98-S, 1913 and 95-O belong there too .. but they are all so close .. the one I would say shouldn't make it is the 07-O Some of this personal experience .. but personal experience is limited to 1 or even 5 years and is no substitute for long acquired data compiled over decades .. Again, they are all so close... It is like saying the odds of hitting the Michigan lottery is better than the California lottery - they both are very hard to hit
No question you guys are right about the 97 O belonging on there way before the 07 O. I probably should have taken a deep breath before posting that……but it probably wasn't too far from I would've put together with hours of thought anyways.
I thought I had the 93 S on there, but I wouldn't have had it too high as I myself have been lucky enough to grab a couple of nice examples in the past few months. Probably a perfect example of personal experience shaping one's perspective, because if you'd have asked me before Halloween Id have had it up there pretty high.
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
Welcome back MFH .. please do expound .. life is too short ... I vote for "let's move forward"
When discussing overall RR, just to be clear, I am referencing all coins - not just PCGS coins .. we all probably are but just to ensure we are all on the same page I thought I would mention it ...
Another guy I know was trying to list the top 20 similar to here and had the same problem .. at the end of the day we agreed after the top 7 or 8 the next 15 were a virtual tie. What's the difference really between the 01-O, 14-S and 97-O. We could add the 02-O to the list as well - a very tough coin in MS and almost equally tough in original AU. Some think the 1913 and 11-D are over rated but they are both tough in choice original AU. on and on it goes
The 1893-S quarter is another one that seems to be more available in MS (and G-VG) than Fine-AU .. I have seen several in MS61-64 and although I wouldn't call it "available", it is easier to find than a nice original Fine-AU. The MS62 Vern posted a few pages back was the Heritage coin and has been described as being very nice and wholesome. They seem to be somewhat out there in MS ... But, finding the 1893-S in truly choice, original AU - raw, NGC, PCGS - anywhere seems to be nearly impossible .... it is somewhat available in low AU or even XF - most are "cleany" looking or dark ..
I've seen it a few times over the years in XF to AU50 and just recently saw sold in PC-AU50 - one on eBay looked very dark and appeared to have re-toned - the 2nd one I saw on DKRC website which looked ok .. The one coin I really liked was bought raw and eventually went on to grade VF35 at PCGS (it was part of the video done on previous pages)
MFH - Thank you for posting those very nice pics. Great meeting you at FUN and thanks for dropping back by the Mega Thread (that you started) to post a cool coin.
Scott - Agree with your assessment of the overall picture of the 93 S. If I were really doing that list over with a lot of thought Id probably stick it somewhere between 12 and 16. I really am not plugged into the MS coins very well, but Ill take your word for it when it comes to them. As I posted before, I bought DK's 45 and I like it because I thought it was a nice darkly toned original. Actually sent it to CAC along with a handful of other BQs recently and it stickered (not that that's proof of anything).
Mark - Feel free to paint a picture for us on that 1901 that Mike posted…..
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
Scott: I haven't posted in awhile so I'll post my 02-O Barber Quarter. Except for a few album scrapes it's an almost perfect AU as it looks much better in hand. I'll try and dig out some of the other top 20's when I get a chance. I'm sure Mike has more than a few!
<< <i> Dennis - I was told that there are letters all over coins - that are transferred by a variety of ways. Some one saw a "P" - next to the S. Look immediately above the last R of Quarter - you'll see an S - and its a Half Dollar size S as well. >>
I saw the "S" above the "R" in quarter plain as day myself ... Same shape and MM as the "S" on my 1910-S Half
Snap! That is an S above the R. All in serif, right as rain. That's cool. Wrong spot obviously but cool. Did anyone go so far as to compare known die markers from P vs S mints?
We're all born MS70. I'm about a Fine 15 right now.
Is it possible Philadelphia used a San Francisco die with the S filled in leaving a ghost image? The devices are incused right? Incused designs on dies to create raised devices? Do I have that right ?? LoL @ me .. Or perhaps the coin was minted in San Francisco and something else happened with the die ..
Big time reach but it is a real point of curiosity
<< <i>I will say that I think it's just the eye seeing what it wants to see, though, if I look close, I can see another, larger S over the A of DOLLAR. >>
From the images I have to agree with this statement. Inside the "R" in quarter I think I can see a "D" and that mint wasn't even around yet lol. It's probably a more exciting coin in person if the metal is raised around the area of topic, but if I saw the images in an auction I would just assume light scratches.
This takes me back to when I was growing up and I was always the guy who would stare for minutes at a time at those posters of patterns with hidden dinosaurs or spaceships and such that were supposed to appear after you "just relaxed your eyes" (big fad in the 90's when I was a teen). I never once could see anything, and always felt like an idiot.
Actually, I could see the half dollar like "S" pattern after it was pointed out to me exactly where it was. At first I was focused on the usual spot where a mintmark would be. As I posted in Mike's registry thread, this would've been a cool "chase" for information to get to experience for the holders of the coin. Kudos to Mike and Mark for their work in the hunt for information.
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
Hahaha Im 36! Man, I figured I was probably on the younger end in here but youngster of the thread?? We need a YN or two in here right quick if that's the case...
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
I am an old 26 yo I started working at a very young age to help my mom support me and my sister so between being an Electrician amd now I'm in the Thoroughbred Racing Business I work 7days a week and my body feels like it's 20years older than 26..
Comments
<< <i>"Speaking of 1910-D Quarters, I have found this date to be another of the over rated dates. Not as much as the 1911-D or 1904-O as it does fly under the radar in the shadows of the previously mentioned dates amongst several others .. For whatever reason, I have seen a lot of this date and find it to be bordering on common myself. Maybe R-2 is accurate IMO
This 1910-D replaced graded AU55 is a nice originally skinned quarter.. The spots seen in the image are barely noticeable in hand .. Although I grade it AU53 as there is a little more wear than what I would expect on a 55, I still consider the coin to be very appealing. Considering who auctioned it, I was surprised when it closed sold several months ago for $250 .."
Nice 10-D's! I agree on the sentiment, Scott...I think they're readily available. >>
I guess since I have only been searching and collecting Barber Quarters for about 6 months I haven't had the access to the quantities that you fellas have. Including scotts images I have only found 4 1910-D AU quarters 2. 2 were at KK TeaParty and JT now has 1 of those and the other 1 was on Heritage a few months ago. That's why I like this Thread, I learn so much thru you guys and hopefully soon I will have educated myself enough to engage in more Conversations
Hoard the keys
Here is tougher date that I was also thrilled to pick up at FUN, also from Teaparty. I had a 55 of my own which was a white coin with a lot of luster but a "blast white" look that I don't much enjoy, and I was really happy to make a trade with the good folks at Teaparty to get my hands on this one. Probably used to be in The Stash
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
Mark - You can carry, start, participate or comment on any conversation - your passion and knowledge and conduct are enjoyable IMO - please don't slow down - 50% of what we say is just opinion - when someone is stating what they believe to be facts, usually it can be identified easily -
Nice one 99-S JT - The members know my opinion of that date as I have mentioned it more than my ex-wife used to nag me to take out the garbage
I think you may be correct in your assumption re the 99-S but I will let those in the know chime in as they please
Regarding the 10-D it's all relative - I could say the 95-S is an easier date than most as I have four slabbed and two raw a VF, XF, 2 AU and two MS, one is the S/S variety but I still consider that one to be one of the toughies .. I think it is mostly opinion and they're all overall relatively difficulty is similar in general ...
If I understand correctly, the RR were assessed from a poll some 5 years ago and used raw coins along with any grading service as they were compiled via all BCCS collectors.
My "theory" is: Much like what happened with Barber Halves in the past 4-5 years, the same applies to the BQ. That is, they were never slabbed as the cost of the slabbing never warranted it. And a lot of the BQ in XF/AU have ben well under $200 until very recently . Common Barber Halves in VF were available for around $50-$75 some 4-5 years ago .. Not many were slabbed and slab premium made those numbers closer to $100 .. They caught fire and prices went up as the supply of PCGS halves was not enough to meet demand. In the last 2 years or so, the number of slabbed mid grade halves exploded and we have seen the tide subside some. I think the BQ, while not as much as the BH, are approaching this phenomenon
I remember Doug (I think) posted his rarity ratings a while back and its definitely worth bookmarking for those who've never seen it. If memory serves its on page 60 or 61 of this thread. Off the top of my head, to me some of the more difficult dates (or seldom seen in nice original XF/AU) right now recently outside of the more commonly considered "tough dates" are the '94, '00 O (not blast white), and '03. Others may think I am nuts, but I just haven't seen many. Scott wisely pointed out how much individual perspective factors into "rarity".
One more thing about pop reports, though. I went to a smaller but always fun show today about an hour from my house and had an interesting conversation with a dealer Ive come to know pretty well and have purchased many quality VG/F BQs from in the past few years. I basically told him that I thought that the 1901 P and the 1905 P were two of the most routinely overpriced coins in the series in lower grades, and that I thought it was all based on the gray sheet listing both coins at much higher than "common" prices, and nothing to do with supply. He didn't necessarily disagree with my point that they were always available, yet raw VGs are routinely priced in the $25-30 range both on eBay and at shows. I realize that the gray sheet is just a guide, and is also often a very valuable tool. There are just so many coins in the series that I think are much tougher than the 01 and 05 in VG, yet are priced at less than 50% of both. Anyways, just rambling a bit…..
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
I agree with you that the 94, 00-O, and 03 are tough dates and much harder to find than what would be expected, as are so many of the dates in the barber quarter series.
Scott also made a very good point as to personal perspective and experience in relative rarity.
My thoughts as to what constitutes over-rated/ under rated dates in the series are:
An over-rated date is one that is regularly available on the market, has plentiful numbers certified by the grading services, is regularly touted by some collectors and dealers as being scarce,
and most importantly, generally sells for prices exceeding that of dates of similar scarcity. Two examples that come to mind in my opinion are the 99-S and 04-O. There must have been 10 or more
AU 99-S quarters that came to auction in 2013 alone. I've never understood why the 04-O often sells for much more than other similar dates such as the 02-O and 03-O. I will admit that finding
a choice original example of either date is a challenge. I'm still looking for the right AU55-58 99-S quarter. Conversely, I don't consider the 10-D particularly over-rated because of it's more modest
price and the fact that I rarely hear collectors mentioning it as a scarce date.
Under-rated dates are sometimes surprisingly infrequently available and often sell for modest premiums when available. Some of the many under-rated dates in the series in my opinion are:
94, 95, 96, 01, 02-S, 03, 03-S, 05-S, 06-O, 07-S, and 09-S. I still consider the 95-S to be under-rated even though a few pieces sold for strong money in 2013.
Just my thoughts, let's hear more opinions.
Doug
Hoard the keys
Good luck with the 08'S...I paid over $110 for a raw VF-30 (my grade) over 9 years ago got it graded by PCGS as a VF-25,some of the coins I see online are that are slabbed are overgraded in my opinion .And the ones I see raw are well,just awful.Same can be said for coin shows and and B@Ms.......just my experiences.
Be ready to pony up for an eye appealing coin
I'm still looking for nice 08's
Rob
Hoard the keys
finding them w/o specifically hunting for them, I'm not sure about their scarcity, but I do know I don't see them around
like other coins. I did see a primo 08S at FUN this year, a stone cold original gray VF that I would've picked it, but
as it was priced way more than what I paid for the one I already own, I passed.
Many dealers have posted both of these coin in VF30-VF35 the past year .. They both seem significantly more difficult in true XF - good luck!!
OK - I will play .. Below is data straight from PCGS.com. I set the filter to run a little over 2 years - Aug. 2011 - Nov. 2013 - Link to those results. I will also post the table for convenience to view. This is for all 1899-S public auction results for only AU grades:
PCGS Auction Prices 1899-S 2011-2013
PCGS# Date Price Grade Svc Firm Sale Venue Lot # MY COMMENT
5624 Nov-2013 $441 AU55 NGC Heritage 2013 November 1 - 3 US Coin Signature Auction - New York #1191 7592 Very White
5624 Sep-2013 $92 AU50 NGC Heritage Internet Coin Auction #131340 22712 Cleaned (AU Detail) - Very White & Ugly
5624 Jul-2013 $705 AU58 PCGS Heritage 2013 July 11 - 14 US Coins Signature Auction - Orlando #1187 7774 Very White
5624 Apr-2013 $1,237 AU58 PCGS eBay eBay Sales in April, 2013 240 This was a nice coin - Sold from Europe. No access to lot now but appeared to be wholesome original coin
5624 Apr-2013 $558 AU55 PCGS Heritage 2013 April 24 - 28 CSNS US Coin Signature Auction - Chicago #1184 8071 Scruffy White and unappealing coin
5624 Feb-2013 $1,210 AU58 PCGS eBay eBay Sales in February, 2013 138 Vaguely recall but no notes recorded. No comment
5624 Feb-2013 $176 AU50 NGC Heritage Internet Coin Auction #131307 26125 AU Detail. Battleship grey. Prob AU50 details.
5624 Jan-2013 $499 AU53 NGC Heritage 2013 January 9-14 US Coin FUN Signature Auction - Orlando #1181 9990 Light grey. Images indicative of lightly dipped but decent
5624 Jan-2013 $141 AU50 NGC Heritage Internet Coin Auction #131303 29089 AU (50) details - Grey color - retoned splotchy. Ugly.
5624 Sep-2012 $259 AU50 NGC Heritage 2012 September 6-9 US Coins Signature Auction- Long Beach #1174 8085 AU50 straight grade - Grey - Average appearance for grade
5624 Aug-2012 $575 AU58 PCGS Teletrade Auction 3335 1757 I was under bidder here - Was told by winner coin very original and nice and images while hard to confirm would lead one to suspect nice surfaces, color and luster.
5624 Aug-2012 $489 AU55 PCGS Teletrade Auction 3335 1756 One of 3 coins auctioned weeks apart: Whitish, dipped out looking
5624 Aug-2012 $414 AU53 PCGS Teletrade Auction 3335 1755 TT photos so bad .. Another whitish dipped looking piece. Blah
5624 Apr-2012 $675 AU55 PCGS Teletrade Auction 3262 1399 Colorfully toned piece - Stash coin IIRC
5624 Oct-2011 $230 AU58 ANACS Heritage Internet Coin Auction #131143 28268 AU58 details - Very lustrous (and freshly dipped). Looks like it would straight grade today at PCGS based solely on the image and IMO
5624 Aug-2011 $1,725 AU58 PCGS Heritage 2011 August Chicago Signature US Coin & Platinum Night Auction #1158 9966 Nice, creamy luster. Mostly white but appears to be "the right white". Ex-MFH coin IIRC
These are just public auctions - there have ben numerous private sales .. I have bought two from dealers directly and have seen others at several shows.
Available - yes
Available nice - Not so much
Let me add AU58s have been sold for $1200-$1200-$1750 round numbers - and they usually sell for similar money as MS61-62 in general. AU58 is a funny grade ... The gem sliders (maybe 15% of all AU58 are worth far more than most MS62 but the other AU58 are usually MS net graded coins .. Plastic buyers should be MOST careful buying AU58 plastic. The prices get driven way up and often times end up way over priced. The Gem sliders are absolutely worth it - but again, they are the minority of coins in this grade).
The MS62 below was also $1200 and it is leaps and bounds nicer than any AU I have yet to see. The $1750 from 2011 was more money than the MS64 I handled at the March Baltimore show.. Bozarth was selling it - it went through Vic's hands to my hands to Tom Smith and finally sold on eBay for $2500. That was a VERY nice coin .. Same money as the Aug 2011 AU58 too ...
High pops are also misleading as the slabbing popularity is still a relatively new concept .. Really only the past several years have most AU coins been worth slabbing .. Many are still raw .. The 1899-S and 1900-S are both very available up to AU .. Both are much more difficult in MS60 or finer .. I have seen dozens of 1900-S in XF/AU to every one I see in MS.... I don't hold the pops as gospel or with as much weight as others may .. I think those numbers are quite misleading - there are too many coins not seen as being worth slabbing .. the 98% of the collector/dealer base out there are not in tune enough with the BQ series and rely on generic price guides and info such as Greysheet, PCGS guide, etc.
One of my 1899-S is this MS62. It is pop 2 with 34 finer. And might I add .. amongst my most favorite pieces for it's purely original surfaces, natural light toning and popping luster ... Vern posted an image of this coin some time ago. Vern's blessed with great photography skills for coins. Even these photos don't show the pop of the luster as much as it exists - the color and texture are spot on - this coin is anything but white .. it is very wholesome, attractive and appealing
Edited to expound in cments
1. 1901 S (I know a few AU's auctioned recently, but still…
2. 1913 S
3. 1909 O
4. 1914 S
5. 1896 S
6. 1907 S
7. 1897 S
8. 1911 S
9. 1906 O
10. 1895 S (tie)
10. 1896 O (tie)
11. 1903 S
12. 1909 S
13. 1901 O
14. 1905 O
15. 1898 O
16. 1905 S
17. 1907 O
18. 1908 S
19. 1912 S
20. 1894
There are probably some glaring flaws here that Ill realize after I post, but I promise not to edit
Scott - Data is king. Good information. To me, the takeaway seems to be that if one is seeking to "fill the hole", the 99 S is not particularly difficult. However, finding an appealing coin in original condition is more of a challenge, and when they arise they are often bid up or retailed much higher because of the perceived difficulty of the date.
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
<< <i>To me, the takeaway seems to be that if one is seeking to "fill the hole", the 99 S is not particularly difficult. However, finding an appealing coin in original condition is more of a challenge, >>
This is very true. I would add that this is also very true for every coin with a few exceptions of the ultra common pieces (e.g. 1907, 1912, 16-D, etc.)
Hoard the keys
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
<< <i>so what did yo u guy s think of The 1901 Au58 that MFH brought to tthe BCCS at FUN. pretty weird wasn't it >>
I'll let Mark Brown discuss this. /////\\\ As Mark is deferring to me, here is the link to my PCGS Registry Forum write up. ///////\\\
Link to Registry Forum
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Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
Kinda surprised the 97O didn't make the top 20? The (somewhat) old BCCS ratings has this date as R5 in both XF and AU....
in any event I wouldn't put it too far from the 960, and certainly well ahead of some others you have listed toward the
bottom. But I'm more of spectator and open to new data
Hoard the keys
<< <i>nteresting list, JKT. Thanks for sharing your observations and opinion. Kinda surprised the 97O didn't make the top 20? The (somewhat) old BCCS ratings has this date as R5 in both XF and AU.... in any event I wouldn't put it too far from the 960, and certainly well ahead of some others you have listed toward the bottom. But I'm more of spectator and open to new data >>
The 93-S, 98-S, 1913 and 95-O belong there too .. but they are all so close .. the one I would say shouldn't make it is the 07-O
Some of this personal experience .. but personal experience is limited to 1 or even 5 years and is no substitute for long acquired data compiled over decades .. Again, they are all so close... It is like saying the odds of hitting the Michigan lottery is better than the California lottery - they both are very hard to hit
I thought I had the 93 S on there, but I wouldn't have had it too high as I myself have been lucky enough to grab a couple of nice examples in the past few months. Probably a perfect example of personal experience shaping one's perspective, because if you'd have asked me before Halloween Id have had it up there pretty high.
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
When discussing overall RR, just to be clear, I am referencing all coins - not just PCGS coins .. we all probably are but just to ensure we are all on the same page I thought I would mention it ...
Another guy I know was trying to list the top 20 similar to here and had the same problem .. at the end of the day we agreed after the top 7 or 8 the next 15 were a virtual tie. What's the difference really between the 01-O, 14-S and 97-O. We could add the 02-O to the list as well - a very tough coin in MS and almost equally tough in original AU. Some think the 1913 and 11-D are over rated but they are both tough in choice original AU. on and on it goes
The 1893-S quarter is another one that seems to be more available in MS (and G-VG) than Fine-AU .. I have seen several in MS61-64 and although I wouldn't call it "available", it is easier to find than a nice original Fine-AU. The MS62 Vern posted a few pages back was the Heritage coin and has been described as being very nice and wholesome. They seem to be somewhat out there in MS ... But, finding the 1893-S in truly choice, original AU - raw, NGC, PCGS - anywhere seems to be nearly impossible .... it is somewhat available in low AU or even XF - most are "cleany" looking or dark ..
I've seen it a few times over the years in XF to AU50 and just recently saw sold in PC-AU50 - one on eBay looked very dark and appeared to have re-toned - the 2nd one I saw on DKRC website which looked ok .. The one coin I really liked was bought raw and eventually went on to grade VF35 at PCGS (it was part of the video done on previous pages)
Scott - Agree with your assessment of the overall picture of the 93 S. If I were really doing that list over with a lot of thought Id probably stick it somewhere between 12 and 16. I really am not plugged into the MS coins very well, but Ill take your word for it when it comes to them. As I posted before, I bought DK's 45 and I like it because I thought it was a nice darkly toned original. Actually sent it to CAC along with a handful of other BQs recently and it stickered (not that that's proof of anything).
Mark - Feel free to paint a picture for us on that 1901 that Mike posted…..
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
__________________
Craig
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
<< <i>I bet it has something to do with the mint mark
Looks far more like a ghost O than an S.
Great pix by the way.
<< <i>
<< <i>I bet it has something to do with the mint mark
Looks far more like a ghost O than an S.
Great pix by the way. >>
Dennis - I was told that there are letters all over coins - that are transferred by a variety of ways.
Some one saw a "P" - next to the S.
Look immediately above the last R of Quarter - you'll see an S - and its a Half Dollar size S as well.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
<< <i>I bet it has something to do with the mint mark
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
<< <i>Regrettably I didn't get a chance to see it…..had to leave about half way through the BCCS meeting to catch a cab to the airport. >>
JT, Nice meeting you - first at Liz's table and again at Glenn's table and finally at the BCCS meeting.
Love the 10-D you bought BTW !!
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
<< <i> Dennis - I was told that there are letters all over coins - that are transferred by a variety of ways. Some one saw a "P" - next to the S. Look immediately above the last R of Quarter - you'll see an S - and its a Half Dollar size S as well. >>
I saw the "S" above the "R" in quarter plain as day myself ... Same shape and MM as the "S" on my 1910-S Half
All in serif, right as rain.
That's cool. Wrong spot obviously but cool.
Did anyone go so far as to compare known die markers from P vs S mints?
Big time reach but it is a real point of curiosity
<< <i>I will say that I think it's just the eye seeing what it wants to see, though, if I look close, I can see another, larger S over the A of DOLLAR. >>
From the images I have to agree with this statement. Inside the "R" in quarter I think I can see a "D" and that mint wasn't even around yet lol. It's probably a more exciting coin in person if the metal is raised around the area of topic, but if I saw the images in an auction I would just assume light scratches.
Actually, I could see the half dollar like "S" pattern after it was pointed out to me exactly where it was. At first I was focused on the usual spot where a mintmark would be. As I posted in Mike's registry thread, this would've been a cool "chase" for information to get to experience for the holders of the coin. Kudos to Mike and Mark for their work in the hunt for information.
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
<< <i>(big fad in the 90's when I was a teen). >>
1890s?
Always looking for tougher PSA 10's of Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Francisco Lindor, and Mike Trout.
Hoard the keys
Pups.
MFH .. where are you?
Hoard the keys