Too rich for my blood. Even after you resell the others. >>
Couldn't help it. I'll let you know how many skel's... will break even plus.
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
Here's a first for me. As I stated the other day I decided to open up my 4/23 boxes. Well, two of my boxes (same time stamp 12:20 and batch #9774) had two "D" rolls inside!
Talk about shock and disappointment! I looked the boxes over for any hint of tampering and couldn't find any. If someone did tamper with them they were extremely good...the boxes
couldn't have been more pristine looking.
So, the second thought naturally is that the mint screwed up in packaging them. A mint employee doubtfully did anything purposeful. Either way I'm glad I opened them up. Can you
imagine the hoopla if I had sold these boxes on Ebay and the buyer discovering this? As frustrating as it is to me it would have been double the bother had that happened. I looked at my
Ebay purchase history archives but I can't see pictures of listings that far back.
I have to eat it unfortunately.
Fortunately, however, I know I didn't pay a high price for the boxes...probably less than $10 ea. Oh well, that's the only time I've been stung in all of these years of collecting them.
I suggest you all take a look too before selling a "sealed" box.
Some of these boxes have been opened and the coins replaced with non error coins.
When I have sold any I have been sure that people that are buying them know that I was not the original owner and don't know for certain that they have not been opened.
These guys are good at making them look as if they were never been opened.
Several boxes that I bought were completely error free over the past few years.
It was not so bad when they were $15 or $20 but at what they are selling for now I would be pi$$ed if I had bought one.
If I had any suspicion at the time of receipt I would have opened them immediately and contacted the seller if there was an issue. I would challenge anyone to detect tampering on
these two boxes. I choose to believe that this happened at the mint in processing somehow. Whatever happened I'm glad I didn't go through an awkward dance, had I just wanted to flip
them, with a buyer on Ebay. It might even have led to a negative feedback because I would have doubted what the buyer was saying. Nobody wants that headache.
I did open a few other boxes today without a problem. One even had an 006 on the end of the roll which I put away for later. The other two boxes had a total of 13 skeletons combined.
So, no more sealed 4/23 boxes in my collection....until the next miraculous sale I come across on the Bay that everyone here hasn't already beaten me to.
Thanks for the head's up and sorry to hear about the "glitch". I agree with you that it was likely a Mint snaffoo, but unfortunate for you.
I once paid and got a box of 10 commem's from the Mint that actually contained 20 boxes. It happens, we are humans.
I still hold a few 4/23 boxes and will give them a second look before opening, but I have never been shafted yet on these -- double fingers crossed...
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
I never had any issues before either Akbeez....I guess the percentages finally caught up with me. As I said I'm glad I didn't sell these two "sealed" boxes on the Bay and have all of the
ensuing headaches associated with SNAD's .
Have any of you received a quadruple Ebaybucks offer today? Another thread was saying it was a one day (today) deal. I did not get the offer
I got the quadruple bucks offer. 8% rebate on purchases over $150. Not huge deal, don't know what I'd buy...let me know if there are any great Lp2 boxes out there!
Congrat's PB on all those 001 & 002's! Nice sweep....
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
3.67% 001s & 19.33% 002s. or 81% fewer 001s than 002s
While this percentage will fluctuate based on the number of boxes & times/dates opened, the ratio will remain relatively close to 5X fewer 001s than 002s.
Just joshin' about a b*tt load of LP2 prospects tonite... [but willin' to listen]
Interesting comp on % of 1's vs 2's. I'll try to check my stat's and see what the ratio has been.
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
I commend Pitboss for listing in detail his DDR Findings in a logical manner. Such as: The date of the USM two roll LP2 box, The Time and for example the"9883" code on each box. Then, the actual count per DDR and then the ratios of one DDR vs other DDR's. Next, could any of us hope or expect the movers and shakers of these scarce error cents to actually post true, real quantities that they have on hand by DDR. Assuming there is truly general collector demand for various F Y DDRs, the postings shared of major holders of each DDR would be particularly helpful to construct a relative rarity/price structure for the marketplace. I am "Not" referring to price fixing of the DDRs, but to better value current and future values of the coins. With the real quantities found, now that they have been out and available for over 4 years and assuming that the vast majority of DDRs have been discovered; the believers would have a better idea if a DDR #006 on Ebay today is a giveaway at a particular price and should appreciate in future years or it is time to take some profit. Even if ANACS population figures were available by DDR Number, that would not tell you how many are available by DDR in the real world. Happy Holidays.
Time for me to interject my 2 cents. Determining rarity is important along with total production but that is not the whole determiner of price. The demand of the error (eye appeal) also has a large effect on the perceived value. just because some thing is rare or old does not automatically give that item value.
Regarding the Skeleton Finger, I have been following the coin since the beginning and know that primarily the coin is only found in 4/23 date LP2 boxes, and not all date stamps of 4/23 have an example. There were indeed examples found in regular bank boxes, but those seem far and few between and demonstrate the extensive obverse die crack, hinting at an early break of the die. I recall a collector who found an example in a bank box and opened up 20,000 coins from rolls from the same grouping of boxes and found just 17 examples.
We have had this talk somewhere in this mega thread before, and I wish the search here was better so I could find the posts. But I think the key to estimating how many Skeleton Fingers there are is to pinpoint the 4/23 LP2 date. Yes, once again, some got out in the bank rolls but those are going to be far and few between, either tough to find, out in circulation, or forever rolled up for some reason.
What was our thought on how many white boxes the Mint could have made on 4/23? 5,000 was it? I know that many time stamps for that day did not have an error in it, but when found my data showed that on average, I found 6 examples. So below is all total assumption but a few examples of possibilities.
4/23 - Skeleton Finger:
If 5,000 boxes made and EVERY box had 6 examples, then = 30,000 If 5,000 boxes made and 75% had examples, and average was 6 a box = 22,500 If 5,000 boxes made and 50% had examples, and average was 6 a box = 15,000
Double the figures above if 10,000 white boxes were made on 4/23 etc.
By the way, I recall that I was the first to submit Skeleton Finger to Crawford, but totally forgot that I asked for input here first on the forum lol. Seems so long ago!
Oh got it thanks. Yeah he said that he found 1 example in a 5/5 box. While I don't doubt it, it seems kinda odd. I haven't heard of any others found in 5/5 boxes. Doesn't mean there are not any, nor could a few stragglers be in other boxes. But definitely 4/23 was the sweet spot and when trying to estimate a pool of available coins, I think that data point makes sense.
I agree that the 4/23 is the box that counts the most buy a factor needs to be figured for the 006 errors in other boxes. Lets say 1.5%. T the main issue will be the number hoarded currently by those on the board talking and those sitting back saying nothing. At this point in time it is all the guessing game, why give accurate numbers when it will have the chance f bringing down the price. A dragon never states the total of its pile......
If you are only counting the 4/23 boxes and the sweet spot for times most likely to produce the 006's are between approximately 9 am - 2 pm then you only need to approximate how many
boxes were produced within that frame. As Papi has suggested the dies did not last that long and were retired early. If anyone can confirm (or already knows) from the mint how many
boxes they fill every hour and multiply that by about 5 (again using my five hour time frame) you'll have a decent approximation of the total quantity produced. I'll let the math majors
Yeah PB that's a gray area for this date. I've had a 10:30 that was a dud too. Thanks for sharing. I wonder if there is a shift change or something that caused certain batches of strikes to be separated at a certain time.
I have some 10:36 timestamps coming for that date, keeping my fingers crossed that they will bear fruit, iffy at best. I'll let ya know when they come. Anyone have luck with this time?
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
Here's some quick statistics of my finds for the number crunchers:
Out of the 41 boxes I have searched for 006's in the fruitful time period, my average per box was 6.1 skels/box.
Out of the 89 boxes I have searched for 001 and 002's, I have found 1-001 for every 1.73-002's. A ratio of 1:1.73. This includes only boxes that included both. We know some dates only produce 002's, so this data is skewed a bit.
I did not average out the #/box of the 1's and 2's yet, that will take more time since there are so many different dates that yielded fruit. Plus, different dates yielded different numbers.
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
I smiled when I saw that listing -- thinking "yeah right"...
OMG is right!
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
It is interesting they have a set exactly like the one just sold and it is the only coin items they have. Probably shill bidding and then canceling after the sale to drive the cost.
I think it's interesting that the sealed LP2 sets may now, due to searching varieties, exist in equal numbers to the LP1 set that sell for about $50.
Looking at sales data, the total number of sets sold initially from Apr-May 2009 was 200k. The second round of sales of 100k, late May-June 2009, sold out in Aug 2009.
If 90% of the initial (Apr 13 - May 6) sets have been opened and searched for varieties; that means the remaining qty of sealed LP2 sets is now somewhere around that of the LP1 sets.
Will generic LP2 sets, some day, sell at the level of the LP1?
IMO, the cost of the LP1, in itself, is a bit ridiculous; because the only difference between them and bank rolls is the Mint Packaging. $50 for packaging; for a plain white box, and fancy Mint paper, that you can never open?
<< <i>Will generic LP2 sets, some day, sell at the level of the LP1? >>
doubtfully....people will still look at the general pop reports from the mint to determine rarity/scarcity (right or wrong). most won't even know about the Lp2 varieties searches that will,
in reality, affect the pops of Lp2 sealed boxes.
I think there's a perception that the mint sealed Lp1 boxes are the cream of the crop. Your point that a bank rolled log cabin cent is more or less the same coin that you'd
find in the mint packaging is valid of course but again there's that perception of a "sealed" mint box that the coins are more pristine than the ones found in bank rolls.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i> Grabbed a 4/23 today. >>
Too rich for my blood. Even after you resell the others. >>
Couldn't help it. I'll let you know how many skel's... will break even plus.
Talk about shock and disappointment! I looked the boxes over for any hint of tampering and couldn't find any. If someone did tamper with them they were extremely good...the boxes
couldn't have been more pristine looking.
So, the second thought naturally is that the mint screwed up in packaging them. A mint employee doubtfully did anything purposeful. Either way I'm glad I opened them up. Can you
imagine the hoopla if I had sold these boxes on Ebay and the buyer discovering this? As frustrating as it is to me it would have been double the bother had that happened. I looked at my
Ebay purchase history archives but I can't see pictures of listings that far back.
I have to eat it unfortunately.
Fortunately, however, I know I didn't pay a high price for the boxes...probably less than $10 ea. Oh well, that's the only time I've been stung in all of these years of collecting them.
I suggest you all take a look too before selling a "sealed" box.
Some of these boxes have been opened and the coins replaced with non error coins.
When I have sold any I have been sure that people that are buying them know that I was not the original owner and don't know for certain that they have not been opened.
These guys are good at making them look as if they were never been opened.
Several boxes that I bought were completely error free over the past few years.
It was not so bad when they were $15 or $20 but at what they are selling for now I would be pi$$ed if I had bought one.
these two boxes. I choose to believe that this happened at the mint in processing somehow. Whatever happened I'm glad I didn't go through an awkward dance, had I just wanted to flip
them, with a buyer on Ebay. It might even have led to a negative feedback because I would have doubted what the buyer was saying. Nobody wants that headache.
I did open a few other boxes today without a problem. One even had an 006 on the end of the roll which I put away for later. The other two boxes had a total of 13 skeletons combined.
So, no more sealed 4/23 boxes in my collection....until the next miraculous sale I come across on the Bay that everyone here hasn't already beaten me to.
I once paid and got a box of 10 commem's from the Mint that actually contained 20 boxes. It happens, we are humans.
I still hold a few 4/23 boxes and will give them a second look before opening, but I have never been shafted yet on these -- double fingers crossed...
ensuing headaches associated with SNAD's .
Have any of you received a quadruple Ebaybucks offer today? Another thread was saying it was a one day (today) deal. I did not get the offer
All 9883
09:04 2-001, 5-002, 8-003
09:04 0-001, 5-002, 5-003
09:04 1-001, 16-002,11-003
12;11 0-001, 15-002, 11-003
12:11 4-001, 9-002, 9-003
12:12 4-001, 8-002, 5-003
total 11-001, 58- 002, 49- 003
Congrat's PB on all those 001 & 002's! Nice sweep....
<< <i>For those of you keeping records, I opened 6 4/27 boxes today that I bought last week for $12 each.
All 9883
09:04 2-001, 5-002, 8-003
09:04 0-001, 5-002, 5-003
09:04 1-001, 16-002,11-003
12;11 0-001, 15-002, 11-003
12:11 4-001, 9-002, 9-003
12:12 4-001, 8-002, 5-003
total 11-001, 58- 002, 49- 003 >>
It's been known that the 001 is much scarcer.
PB's small sampling shows it well
3.67% 001s & 19.33% 002s. or 81% fewer 001s than 002s
While this percentage will fluctuate based on the number of boxes & times/dates opened, the ratio will remain relatively close to 5X fewer 001s than 002s.
Should they be worth 5X more?
Those ratios are in the ballpark for all the 1's and 2's that are in my inventory and I have a significant amount as I am sure you do Papi.
Interesting comp on % of 1's vs 2's. I'll try to check my stat's and see what the ratio has been.
This is how we find out if one is more rare than another as there will be no mint records to go by.
How percentage have you found in the boxes that you have opened everybody on these 2 particular varieties?
<< <i>We need more of the collectors of these great coins to speak out about the percentages of these coins related to one another. >>
You guys should post your 006 findings. What is that percentage?
In the rolls I have opened I have found anywhere from zero to 13.
The average has been around 6 and have opened 43 rolls so far.
No idea what to put down for a percentage though.
<< <i>The average has been around 6 and have opened 43 rolls so far. >>
That would be 12%, based on what you described, not total production.
For the total mintage, assuming the die produced 500k Skeletons, that would be 0.12% of production.
But the die had major cracks. Did it last that long? Odds are it did not before it was retired.
We have had this talk somewhere in this mega thread before, and I wish the search here was better so I could find the posts. But I think the key to estimating how many Skeleton Fingers there are is to pinpoint the 4/23 LP2 date. Yes, once again, some got out in the bank rolls but those are going to be far and few between, either tough to find, out in circulation, or forever rolled up for some reason.
What was our thought on how many white boxes the Mint could have made on 4/23? 5,000 was it? I know that many time stamps for that day did not have an error in it, but when found my data showed that on average, I found 6 examples. So below is all total assumption but a few examples of possibilities.
4/23 - Skeleton Finger:
If 5,000 boxes made and EVERY box had 6 examples, then = 30,000
If 5,000 boxes made and 75% had examples, and average was 6 a box = 22,500
If 5,000 boxes made and 50% had examples, and average was 6 a box = 15,000
Double the figures above if 10,000 white boxes were made on 4/23 etc.
By the way, I recall that I was the first to submit Skeleton Finger to Crawford, but totally forgot that I asked for input here first on the forum lol. Seems so long ago!
First Skeleton Finger Post!
<< <i>I posted information that also showed that the first 006 to be found was in an 05 box so not all were in the 04 boxes. >>
What do you mean by 05 or 04?
boxes were produced within that frame. As Papi has suggested the dies did not last that long and were retired early. If anyone can confirm (or already knows) from the mint how many
boxes they fill every hour and multiply that by about 5 (again using my five hour time frame) you'll have a decent approximation of the total quantity produced. I'll let the math majors
take over from here.
I have some 10:36 timestamps coming for that date, keeping my fingers crossed that they will bear fruit, iffy at best. I'll let ya know when they come. Anyone have luck with this time?
Out of the 41 boxes I have searched for 006's in the fruitful time period, my average per box was 6.1 skels/box.
Out of the 89 boxes I have searched for 001 and 002's, I have found 1-001 for every 1.73-002's. A ratio of 1:1.73. This includes only boxes that included both. We know some dates only produce 002's, so this data is skewed a bit.
I did not average out the #/box of the 1's and 2's yet, that will take more time since there are so many different dates that yielded fruit. Plus, different dates yielded different numbers.
My best box (10:33 9883) produced 12 - 001's, 15 - 002's, 5 - 003's, and 9 - 004's ... 41 total errors out of 50 coins (that was a fun one to search).
Ironically, many boxes of similar times produced virtually nothing but 005's and minor die cracks.
So, you never know for sure what you're going to get (like Momma Gump used to say).
Mostly from my experience you would have more consistent luck in finding 001's and 002's with boxes stamped after 11:30 to the mid-afternoon.
Good luck Akbeez on your incoming boxes...please let us know how you do.
OMG is right!
It's hard enough selling the good stuff !
<< <i>OMG >>
If this guy is serious, I would like to know who he is as I have some oceanfront property here in Albuquerque he could buy at a great price.
Looking at sales data, the total number of sets sold initially from Apr-May 2009 was 200k. The second round of sales of 100k, late May-June 2009, sold out in Aug 2009.
If 90% of the initial (Apr 13 - May 6) sets have been opened and searched for varieties; that means the remaining qty of sealed LP2 sets is now somewhere around that of the LP1 sets.
Will generic LP2 sets, some day, sell at the level of the LP1?
IMO, the cost of the LP1, in itself, is a bit ridiculous; because the only difference between them and bank rolls is the Mint Packaging. $50 for packaging; for a plain white box, and fancy Mint paper, that you can never open?
<< <i>Will generic LP2 sets, some day, sell at the level of the LP1? >>
doubtfully....people will still look at the general pop reports from the mint to determine rarity/scarcity (right or wrong). most won't even know about the Lp2 varieties searches that will,
in reality, affect the pops of Lp2 sealed boxes.
I think there's a perception that the mint sealed Lp1 boxes are the cream of the crop. Your point that a bank rolled log cabin cent is more or less the same coin that you'd
find in the mint packaging is valid of course but again there's that perception of a "sealed" mint box that the coins are more pristine than the ones found in bank rolls.
It's just the luck of the draw.