So the way it looks is all of the dies were created in Philly, the ones with the errors were used in Philly and none of the dies shipped to Denver had the bad dies.
It was not a case of Denver being more watchful than Philly in their production.
<< <i>So the way it looks is all of the dies were created in Philly, the ones with the errors were used in Philly and none of the dies shipped to Denver had the bad dies.
It was not a case of Denver being more watchful than Philly in their production. >>
Not necessarily. The QC at Denver may have caught and discarded the "bad"dies.
The Satin Finish dies may have gone undetected by Denver because they are not as pronounced with the sand blasted finish.
Or perhaps there were only a limited number of Satin dies; so they could not discard them and maintain the quantities needed.
How could two randomly different errors be so close in identity. I am referring to the business strike 057 and the proof 005 And also the proof 006 and the satin 005
<< <i>How could two randomly different errors be so close in identity. I am referring to the business strike 057 and the proof 005 And also the proof 006 and the satin 005 >>
There are many similarities with 2009 doubled dies.
Wexler's web site cautions enthusiasts to be careful when checking, some look almost identical, but not
I don't consider the dies you mentioned to be "so close"; to me the differences are clear. No offense
I don't think the 057 looks like the Proof 005. To me, Proof 005 looks more like WDDR-007
I agree with you regarding the proof 005 looking like the business strike 007. What I don't understand is how two random errors can look so much like one another or exactly how those errors were created in the first place.
Still waiting so,so,so,so,so,patiently! I was thinking,because of all the errors/varieties on our beloved 2009 Formative Year collection,the mint might not let any coins out looking similar to the 2009 debacle? This series might be the "last of the Mohicans"? If this is the case, these babies(2009 Form.Ys.)will be a HOT commodity after all. Think of it. Has any coin since the 2009 cent has even come close to the kind of mishap that occurred on the 2009 Abe? I would say an alarming,NO! Fingers and "thumbs"crossed!
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
Provided there are still collectors about 20 years from now when I can retire I have been buying 1965, 66, 67 sms coins.1965 in mint cello (never in circulation).I have been seeing the1965's in some keydate listings, and with the low mintages and deminishing number's they can only go up.
I Purchase these as an investment only and never pay more than 1.00 a coin.
Try to find a 1965 sms penny in mint cello for buck. Not to mention the errors and varieties on the sms coins.
If you are investing in coins that are nearly 50 years old and getting them for under a buck, what makes you think they are going to go up in value in another 20 years?
OK - This thread finally got the best of me! It motivated me to look for some 2009 Lincoln cent boxes that I purchased shortly after they were released, and had not looked at since. I also purchased some unopened rolls on eBay when the varieties were 1st noticed - I still don't know where they are. We have recently moved, so my coins are still somewhat scattered in various boxes, containers, etc. If you ever want to realize just how large your 'collection' is, try relocating! I am making slow, steady progress at reorganizing everything.
Anyway, I did find the boxes that I purchased and they are printed as follows: LP2 - 9883 - 07:59 - 4/15/09 (3 boxes) LP2 - 9774 - 14:17 - 4/14/09 (1 box) LP2 - 9774 - 12:30 - 4/24/09 (1 box which I opened)
In the box that I opened, the Philly roll is a H-T roll with a reverse error coin on the end. It doesn't look exactly like any of the photos that I have seen here or on the Lincoln Cent Resource site. Is there a site that lists all of the various dies varieties? This coin has the skeleton finger between the thumb & index finger, but it appears to extend all the way into the binding (or rib) of the book. Also, there is a 'halo' effect surrounding the tip of Lincoln's left thumb caused by a depression in the metal there. The closest pic that I saw on this thread would be the WDDR-006, except that this skeleton finger extends into the book's binding, rather than along the edge. There is also a small die cud in the middle of Abe's arm, just above the elbow. No indication of doubling/die cracks on the obverse, although I can't see the edges.
I have not opened the roll yet - I want to find a listing of all the die varieties if there is such a listing. When I first read this thread it was about 17-18 pages, so forgive me for not completely reviewing the newest 60 pages - I've been busy searching thru boxes of coins!
Nifty thread - I hope that it continues a good while longer!
Don't you know that it's worth every treasure on Earth to be young at heart? And as rich as you are, it's much better by far, to be young at heart!
Hi golddustin! to one of the most interesting threads on this forum. Keep in touch and keep learning more about the incredible 2009 Formative year Lincoln. Some of these guys will really help. --joey
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
Drop a pic on here so we can compare. It's possible to get a skeleton in your 4/24 box, I didn't keep many boxes of that date due to lack of "better" varieties. Wexlers error site is the best resource for attributions/varieties.
Always good to get another Formative in the group. We are all still learning.
Cheers
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
These are mint boxes. I will try to get a respectable photo posted asap, however, during the move, my half-homemade copy stand was broken, so I need to go to Radio Shack or a hardware store & pick up some new parts.
Upon closer examination, it is definitely what would be considered a skeleton finger - it is a long, thin 'finger' that starts between the thumb & index finger (closer to the finger), then seems to branch at the book's binding. The short right 'branch' stops at the first crease in the binding, while the left 'branch' continues into the binding, ending in the middle of the book's rib. I don't plan on opening the roll any time soon, so it may be a little tougher for me to get a really clear image, but with some effort, I think I'll be able to.
Thanks for the welcomes! As you can tell, I am not a frequent visitor - usually just visit the forums to keep up with new happenings and don't post that often. I typically use the PM option when discussing details with interested parties. Over the years I have met quite a few forum members at various local and national shows - always a pleasure to meet the person behind the avatar!
Don't you know that it's worth every treasure on Earth to be young at heart? And as rich as you are, it's much better by far, to be young at heart!
I don't recall getting bifurcated skelts. Pics are needed to verify.
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
The only one I got out of anything other than a 4/23 box was one I got out of a bank box that I was going through while picking out 025's and 32's. I figured that one was left in a hopper and that was why it got stuck in a bank box.
How are these die varieties doing in the marketplace? Are they being bought and sold individually? Is there a robust wholesale and resale market? Are you seeing a lot of new collectors in the field?
I think these hidden jewels are starting to take notice.Just glance at ebay,you'll see many Individuals, as well as, boxes(both from the Mint and Banks),slabbed or raw,in rolls also(end rolls).And as far as being known.Look on this forum,how many NEW voices are starting to join this interesting thread!!! I hope this answers at least part of your question?-joey
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
Good morning Dennis I have seen a lot of old time error collectors starting to show interest in them in the past few weeks. I sold 6 of each of the major errors (WDDR 001,002,006,016,025,043, and 050) to a major player in the error field last week. There seem to be quite a few others that are contacting me to buy a few of each as we go along.
Can you give us an update on when the Cherry Pickers guide will be coming out?
and checked the "Sold listings" box, and no results turned up.
I checked "Completed listings" and three came up (one auction and two BINs), but no sales.
Am I not using the right search terms? >>
I have been selling mine privately but buying online. I bought 7 LP@ boxes with the 4/17 and 1 with the 4/23 date this weekend and those sales have not appeared on ebay either. Some of my online sales do not appear also, so I do not know what is going on with ebay.
Hi Dennis, I am a dealer who has had an interest in the 2009 P Cent DDR's ever since the LP2 boxes were available. Currently, I offer/ sell a few graded (ANACS) popular DDR's on Ebay. They are not flying out but they seem to have a following in the market place. Of course, our friends Ken Potter and John Wexler offer several of these coins on their own website. I do not know how brisk their sales are but the coins gain favor when such well known dealers are offering the coins. I think that the future is bright but needs more collector/dealer interest; maybe a jump-start article or listed in the next CPG. These are a 3 month only coin production of a special design. Thanks for your interest, Dennis. Mark.
Whoever treazure.chest is he's dumping them fast and furious! Not getting much for his efforts either. That's a shame because he prolly has a lot of time in collecting rolls of the many errors.
He hit the mother load on the 43's the same way I did on the 25's. He has made the choice to dump his where i am holding mine except when I make a trade to get some of what I am looking for.
I believe he has his share but not hundreds of rolls as the 014 was being found by him also in those boxes in lesser quantities. He has sold very few 014's so it lends me to believe he has fewer of the 043's than you think.
IMO, once the "Magnificent Seven" DDRs are recognized in the CPG and PCGS/NGC are certifying the Seven coins, a large coin dealer retailer with $ to advertise these great coins to all the modern cent collectors and error collectors in print ads; then the race to grab and sell quantities to this (these) dealer(s) will come about. I want to see prices for the Seven DDRs firm and then escalate in price. Ebay is really the only viable marketplace for these error coins now. I trust that these coins will enjoy a better long-term future than did the WI H/L quarters. Mark.
Initially, poor distribution; heavy speculation on Ebay by individuals that took quarter prices to unsustainable levels; adverse publicity from several error coin experts that had their own agenda to sell their own coins; continued controversy for years over the true origin of the coins (machine error vs. variety caused intentionally by a Denver Mint employee); no place in either major coin album for the pair of varieties; Finally, no follow-through from collectors because there are so few serious Statehood Quarter collectors. There are several positives to this quarter saga but few if any will come to the coin's aid anytime soon. Probably, tens of years. This is my opinion. I hope that the 2009 FY DDR Cents can avoid many of these obstacles.
FWIW I have never opened any 4/21's. I would suspect it would have a few of the lessor varieties? Since you have them in hand, crack them open and let us know what you find. I would think a few doubled thumbs, 003-005's?
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
<< <i>What's a good reference site to know what to look for? >>
Since this thread started until now, I can strongly say now that " HERE" would be a good reference site to find out just about everything you wanted to know of the exciting 2009 Formative Years Lincolns! In all the posts,there will be a reference to go at Wex's or Potter's or whomsoever in which to answer any question. Our thread has turned into a site of it's own,all because of the bug that we all caught concerning these hidden jewels.
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
This is the site to view the major varieties found to date.
Nice to see new blood and increased enthusiasm on this thread. I believe the error which golddustin is referring to by his description sounds more like the wddr-003
Question, are there additional 2009 P WDDR FY Cents that have been discovered but not included n Wexler's 101+ coin list? Seems like his list has remained constant for some time. Wexler's list is a great help to all of us.
Comments
It was not a case of Denver being more watchful than Philly in their production.
<< <i>So the way it looks is all of the dies were created in Philly, the ones with the errors were used in Philly and none of the dies shipped to Denver had the bad dies.
It was not a case of Denver being more watchful than Philly in their production. >>
Not necessarily. The QC at Denver may have caught and discarded the "bad"dies.
The Satin Finish dies may have gone undetected by Denver because they are not as pronounced with the sand blasted finish.
Or perhaps there were only a limited number of Satin dies; so they could not discard them and maintain the quantities needed.
I know I have some but they just don't do much for me because they are not as pronounced.
<< <i>So then more than one die can have the same error? >>
They can if the error occurred on the Master Die, but that wasn't the case with the 2009s
The dies you are asking about have similarities, but they are not 100% exactly the same.
I am referring to the business strike 057 and the proof 005
And also the proof 006 and the satin 005
<< <i>How could two randomly different errors be so close in identity.
I am referring to the business strike 057 and the proof 005
And also the proof 006 and the satin 005 >>
There are many similarities with 2009 doubled dies.
Wexler's web site cautions enthusiasts to be careful when checking, some look almost identical, but not
I don't consider the dies you mentioned to be "so close"; to me the differences are clear. No offense
I don't think the 057 looks like the Proof 005. To me, Proof 005 looks more like WDDR-007
errors can look so much like one another or exactly how those errors were created in the first place.
<< <i> What I don't understand is how those errors were created in the first place. >>
Doubled Dies
<< <i>At the rate they are going it probably will not even be that soon.
Any comments on that Dentuk as to a release date or whatever else you can tell us? >>
He has not responded to inquiries about the CPG, neither on here or email
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.There is just too much junk out there!
But there is some good stuff too if you buy carefully.
I Purchase these as an investment only and never pay more than 1.00 a coin.
Try to find a 1965 sms penny in mint cello for buck. Not to mention the errors and varieties on the sms coins.
Anyway, I did find the boxes that I purchased and they are printed as follows:
LP2 - 9883 - 07:59 - 4/15/09 (3 boxes)
LP2 - 9774 - 14:17 - 4/14/09 (1 box)
LP2 - 9774 - 12:30 - 4/24/09 (1 box which I opened)
In the box that I opened, the Philly roll is a H-T roll with a reverse error coin on the end. It doesn't look exactly like any of the photos that I have seen here or on the Lincoln Cent Resource site. Is there a site that lists all of the various dies varieties? This coin has the skeleton finger between the thumb & index finger, but it appears to extend all the way into the binding (or rib) of the book. Also, there is a 'halo' effect surrounding the tip of Lincoln's left thumb caused by a depression in the metal there. The closest pic that I saw on this thread would be the WDDR-006, except that this skeleton finger extends into the book's binding, rather than along the edge. There is also a small die cud in the middle of Abe's arm, just above the elbow. No indication of doubling/die cracks on the obverse, although I can't see the edges.
I have not opened the roll yet - I want to find a listing of all the die varieties if there is such a listing. When I first read this thread it was about 17-18 pages, so forgive me for not completely reviewing the newest 60 pages - I've been busy searching thru boxes of coins!
Nifty thread - I hope that it continues a good while longer!
every treasure on Earth
to be young at heart?
And as rich as you are,
it's much better by far,
to be young at heart!
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.Drop a pic on here so we can compare. It's possible to get a skeleton in your 4/24 box, I didn't keep many boxes of that date due to lack of "better" varieties. Wexlers error site is the best resource for attributions/varieties.
Always good to get another Formative in the group. We are all still learning.
Cheers
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.Upon closer examination, it is definitely what would be considered a skeleton finger - it is a long, thin 'finger' that starts between the thumb & index finger (closer to the finger), then seems to branch at the book's binding. The short right 'branch' stops at the first crease in the binding, while the left 'branch' continues into the binding, ending in the middle of the book's rib. I don't plan on opening the roll any time soon, so it may be a little tougher for me to get a really clear image, but with some effort, I think I'll be able to.
Thanks for the welcomes! As you can tell, I am not a frequent visitor - usually just visit the forums to keep up with new happenings and don't post that often. I typically use the PM option when discussing details with interested parties. Over the years I have met quite a few forum members at various local and national shows - always a pleasure to meet the person behind the avatar!
every treasure on Earth
to be young at heart?
And as rich as you are,
it's much better by far,
to be young at heart!
I don't recall getting bifurcated skelts. Pics are needed to verify.
being bought and sold individually? Is there a robust wholesale
and resale market? Are you seeing a lot of new collectors in the
field?
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.2009 Formative Years variety
and checked the "Sold listings" box, and no results turned up.
I checked "Completed listings" and three came up (one auction and two BINs), but no sales.
Am I not using the right search terms?
I have seen a lot of old time error collectors starting to show interest in them in the past few weeks. I sold 6 of each of the major errors (WDDR 001,002,006,016,025,043, and 050) to a major player in the error field last week. There seem to be quite a few others that are contacting me to buy a few of each as we go along.
Can you give us an update on when the Cherry Pickers guide will be coming out?
By the way, I took variety out of my search terms, and came up with more results.
<< <i>I searched eBay for
2009 Formative Years variety
and checked the "Sold listings" box, and no results turned up.
I checked "Completed listings" and three came up (one auction and two BINs), but no sales.
Am I not using the right search terms? >>
I have been selling mine privately but buying online. I bought 7 LP@ boxes with the 4/17 and 1 with the 4/23 date this weekend and those sales have not appeared on ebay either. Some of my online sales do not appear also, so I do not know what is going on with ebay.
<< <i>No update at the moment, but I'll advise when I can.
By the way, I took variety out of my search terms, and came up with more results. >>
Click below. There's over $4k in sales
2009 WDDR Sold Listings
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.<< <i>
<< <i>No update at the moment, but I'll advise when I can.
By the way, I took variety out of my search terms, and came up with more results. >>
Click below. There's over $4k in sales
2009 WDDR Sold Listings >>
Whoever treazure.chest is he's dumping them fast and furious! Not getting much for his efforts either. That's a shame because he prolly has a lot of time in collecting rolls of the many errors.
<< <i>Whoever treazure.chest is he's dumping them fast and furious! Not getting much for his efforts either. >>
I believe he used to go by the Ebay handle "WorldPeace". He's sold, and continues to sell, many bank boxes.
He probably order the 2009s in ballistic bags, and either wrapped them himself or had them wrapped.
I believe he became aware of the varieties from his buyers, there's lots of verbal diarrhea out there, and decide to search for himself.
That's the only way he could have amassed the kind of quantities he has.
Where PB thinks he hit the Mother Load with 025s, TreasureChest probably has HUNDREDS of rolls, and he'll probably sell one a week for years to come.
Anyone can fantasize about making a "killing" on a single coin. Seems TC is making a killing on volume. Right Mr Walton?
I'll sell one penny all day long for $3 each.
<< <i> I trust that these coins will enjoy a better long-term future than did the WI H/L quarters. Mark. >>
Why didn't these?
There are several positives to this quarter saga but few if any will come to the coin's aid anytime soon. Probably, tens of years.
This is my opinion. I hope that the 2009 FY DDR Cents can avoid many of these obstacles.
Anything worth checking for?
Cashback from Mr. Rebates
Cashback from Mr. Rebates
Look for the 2009 P reverse double dies
<< <i>What's a good reference site to know what to look for? >>
Since this thread started until now, I can strongly say now that " HERE" would be a good reference site to find out just about everything you wanted to know of the exciting 2009 Formative Years Lincolns! In all the posts,there will be a reference to go at Wex's or Potter's or whomsoever in which to answer any question. Our thread has turned into a site of it's own,all because of the bug that we all caught concerning these hidden jewels.
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.This is the site to view the major varieties found to date.
Nice to see new blood and increased enthusiasm on this thread. I believe the error which golddustin is referring to by his description sounds more like the wddr-003
what do you think golddustin?
003