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2009 lincoln formative / Lp2 mint boxes / proof sets / doubled die errors

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  • jessewvujessewvu Posts: 5,065 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Does anybody notice that the majority of the "Form. Years" P mint obverse,has a die crack in Abe's forehead? >>



    Nope, that does not seem to be the case with the coins I have seen. Sure, a few here and there might but nowhere near a majority that I could tell. I suppose if all your coins are from a similar lot, that would be the case.

  • pitbosspitboss Posts: 8,643 ✭✭✭
    I notice them on some of the coins but not all but then again I do not really look for them.
  • OnedollarnohollarOnedollarnohollar Posts: 2,035 ✭✭✭✭
    Some of the diagnostics of certain errors or die stages are minute hairline die cracks that are either on the forehead or on the back of Lincoln's head. Is this what you are referring to Joey?

    It's not often that I go that deeply into reading those diagnostics but sometimes I do just for my own education about these varieties..
  • joeykoinsjoeykoins Posts: 15,374 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes,this is what i'm referring to. Not only the forehead but some with both combined,the forehead and the back of Lincoln's head. I would say in all my searches,I must have at least 500 of these. Most I cashed in already,should I've held on to these or no? I still have a bunch. Come to think of it,I'm beginning to notice cracks also in his chin. imageimage

    "Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!

    --- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
  • HIGHLOWLEAVESHIGHLOWLEAVES Posts: 783 ✭✭✭
    Point of Interest.... I looked at T.C.'s current Ebay auctions and noticed that he was Not auctioning off his familar rolls of 50 BU FY Cents DDR: #25 & #14. Interesting !!
    Specialized Investments
  • OnedollarnohollarOnedollarnohollar Posts: 2,035 ✭✭✭✭



    << <i>
    Point of Interest.... I looked at T.C.'s current Ebay auctions and noticed that he was Not auctioning off his familar rolls of 50 BU FY Cents DDR: #25 & #14. Interesting !! >>



    The quiet before the storm



    << <i>Yes,this is what i'm referring to. Not only the forehead but some with both combined,the forehead and the back of Lincoln's head. I would say in all my searches,I must have at least 500 of these. Most I cashed in already,should I've held on to these or no? >>



    If there are no major reverse or obverse errors then, in my opinion, I would say no, they don't have any "holding" value.
  • pitbosspitboss Posts: 8,643 ✭✭✭
    From what I understand they are just die markers.

    I had over 5000 die cracks that I just put in boxes and took them to the bank to get rid of them.

    They are never going to be worth anything and were just in my way.

  • PapiPapi Posts: 1,189 ✭✭
    I've noticed more and more Ebay sales of LP2 Mint wrapped rolls being sold without the boxes. Apparently if they're not error dates no one wants to buy them so they're being busted out.

    Future market for boxed sets?
  • pitbosspitboss Posts: 8,643 ✭✭✭
    Could very well be Papi,

    I have saved some unopened but not a lot.

    I still have a few 4/23 boxes which will be primo.
  • jessewvujessewvu Posts: 5,065 ✭✭✭✭✭
    For me, there isn't really any advantage to opening LP2 sets, unless I wanted to save space. I know, with very good confidence, what is going to be in each sealed set based on my extensive records of all the boxes I have opened.

    I know which sealed sets to go to for any specific coin that I'm looking for. This only includes the errors that came in the LP2 sets of course.
  • pitbosspitboss Posts: 8,643 ✭✭✭
    Might as well keep them sealed until you decide what to do with them.

    You are not going to gain anything by opening them now that is for sure.

    I think most of us have enough already opened for our present needs.
  • PapiPapi Posts: 1,189 ✭✭


    << <i>I know, based on my extensive records, what is going to be in each sealed set >>



    I'd buy a copy of that spreadsheet, or would you care to post your findings?




    I am confident that before I depart this world, penny production will cease.

    Will Lincoln cents then become more or less collectible?
  • pitbosspitboss Posts: 8,643 ✭✭✭
    I too would like to see that spreadsheet, oh and by the way, yours too Papi.

    I was a dumb a$$ and did not keep one.

    I think they will be very collectable for a long time after they cease making them.

    At that point I would still like to able to breath air and enjoy them but I doubt it.
  • OnedollarnohollarOnedollarnohollar Posts: 2,035 ✭✭✭✭




    << <i>I know which sealed sets to go to for any specific coin that I'm looking for. >>





    I recorded my findings of every lp2 box I opened but I have not opened every date/time that was issued. I have definite holes in my spreadsheet. Put me down as another

    that would love you to share your findings. Thanks in advance Jesse! imageimage
  • pitbosspitboss Posts: 8,643 ✭✭✭
    I didn't expect an answer . It got awfully quiet in here. I cant say I blame them for not answering as they were smart enough to keep the records and would lose out if they tell everyone their secrets. They have spent a lot of money getting them. I don't need the records as I have amassed enough coins to do very well but I understand your situation. Just keep buying and your records will be as good as theirs maybe.
  • Q: does anacs require you to pay the $5 variety attribution on the '09 formative errors??

    It looks to me that the "dollars and cents" doesnt really help if you are submitting these coins, looks like there is only a $10 submission charge on moderns....

    image
  • pitbosspitboss Posts: 8,643 ✭✭✭
    You have to call them and talk to someone who can make a decision like that, ask for Shawn or Paul. It would depend on whether you have them all separated and listed by WDDR # and how many you are getting graded. Things like that. I get mine done for $10 each but I never send in less that 40 to 80 coins at a time.
  • pitbosspitboss Posts: 8,643 ✭✭✭
    $153.50 for tonights roll of 043's is less than half what last weeks went for.
  • PapiPapi Posts: 1,189 ✭✭


    << <i>$153.50 for tonight's roll of 043's is less than half what last weeks went for. >>



    Flooding the market with any of these, 025, 032, 043, etc etc, will just cause the prices to crash; supply & demand.

    Tonight, only 6 bidders on the 043 roll. Not exactly a sellers market.



    At this point, if ever, there is no broad appeal for these varieties.

    There is no convincing the traditionalists of the significance of the "single squeeze" doubled die.

    Unless they see two of the same numbers or letters, like the 2009 DDR Quarter, you will not get them to see otherwise.


    The CPG is not going to elevate these to the status desired, or deserved for that matter.

    Only when they're included in the "Red" Bible will they be given any respect; and maybe not even then.
  • OnedollarnohollarOnedollarnohollar Posts: 2,035 ✭✭✭✭
    There will never be a Formative Years cent minted again. Significance in the world of numismatic history? Ultimate value? I can wait. imageimage

    I think I'll keep looking for them anyway image

  • Hi everyone, I have been lurking on this thread for awhile now, even started collecting the errors.
    Paid a little dummy money here and there, but also have some decent coins.

    I won the roll of 043s tonight. They may even get cheaper, i'll be buying more on the way down

    Thanks everyone for your contributions to this Forum and the the knowledge I have
    gained to this point.
  • PapiPapi Posts: 1,189 ✭✭


    << <i>There is no convincing the traditionalists of the significance of the "single squeeze" doubled die. >>





    << <i>Hi everyone, I have been lurking on this thread for awhile now, even started collecting the errors.
    Paid a little dummy money here and there, but also have some decent coins.

    I won the roll of 043s tonight. They may even get cheaper, i'll be buying more on the way down

    Thanks everyone for your contributions to this Forum and the the knowledge I have
    gained to this point. >>




    Hmm... Well, bite my own tongue.

    Are members allowed multiple IDs ?......Gotta Love they name they picked image
  • jessewvujessewvu Posts: 5,065 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sorry, I had a very sick 4 year old over the weekend. One trip to urgent care then one to ER.

    I honestly do not have much trouble sharing my findings, especially to those that have likewise provided information and knowledge here. I wouldn't sell the information to a "new" guy just because having a little fun looking through boxes is half the challenge.

    I might consider a trade for some holes in my little collection for the info though. I could provide it and you could let me know what it is worth in trade after the fact image
  • halfhunterhalfhunter Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Hi everyone, I have been lurking on this thread for awhile now, even started collecting the errors.
    Paid a little dummy money here and there, but also have some decent coins.

    I won the roll of 043s tonight. They may even get cheaper, i'll be buying more on the way down

    Thanks everyone for your contributions to this Forum and the the knowledge I have
    gained to this point. >>



    Hi . . . and welcome to the wacky world of the true believers ! ! ! image

    imageimage

    HH
    Need the following OBW rolls to complete my 46-64 Roosevelt roll set:
    1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
    Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
  • HIGHLOWLEAVESHIGHLOWLEAVES Posts: 783 ✭✭✭
    IMHO, Ebay does not really establish a reliable price/value for numismatic items or at least by looking at one or a few auctions. The time of day, day of the week, Holidays, false demand and the overall economy and maybe insight coming from this Forum thread can all effect a final Ebay auction price. Since early 2005, I have personally listed most final Ebay prices for the WI Extra High and Low quarters for my own use. Boy, do their values vary even over a day or two. IMHO, they have reached a bottom for awhile. Let the small hoards dispurse through Ebay. Their long term downward trend can be distrubing obviously to a speculator but can still provide some opportunities for a long term collector. I am stating references to the Leaves simply because their past can help understand what the future maybe for the "magnificent seven" 2009 DDR cents. The Ebay market may end up being "The Marketplace" for the DDR's over time. Many have said that the quarters needed to be distributed widely so as to get the interest of the collectors. That can mean that prices go down for a period of time. Then, some dealers can continue to offer the DDR's through ads, etc. I do not believe that most dealers will step up and buy Forum member's hoards of error coins. When a very, very few dealers bought Extra Leaves coins; it was early on during the highly speculative market. Try to unloaded a bunch of quarters today. Now, reality sets in. T.C. on Ebay maybe a very smart seller of the #043, etc DDRs. by taking some quality profit off of the table. Who knows how many rolls he has put back.
    Specialized Investments
  • joeykoinsjoeykoins Posts: 15,374 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Hi everyone, I have been lurking on this thread for awhile now, even started collecting the errors.
    Paid a little dummy money here and there, but also have some decent coins.

    I won the roll of 043s tonight. They may even get cheaper, i'll be buying more on the way down

    Thanks everyone for your contributions to this Forum and the the knowledge I have
    gained to this point. >>

    Hey image to school,my friend! It's great that you chose us,on the true believers thread,to post your very first here. also,It's great to choose a title name as yours. We can tell you enjoy these hidden gems as much as we do. Nice to have you aboard. I'm curious,did you read ALL our posts? I know there are well over a 1000,but if you take the time,you'll find many tidbits of knowledgeable information. Like I said, Welcome to school,where not only you'll learn of this new treasure (2009p Formative Years) but you'll also learn many other aspects in all coins and life,as well! Keep hunting! -joey imageimage -(our slogan) for the "double thumbs"in the varieties.

    "Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!

    --- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
  • pitbosspitboss Posts: 8,643 ✭✭✭
    Welcome aboard, I am glad you finally decided to come forward and contribute to our little forum. I have been urging you to do so for a while now and as you can see there are some big boys here that have contributed a lot. I am so glad you won that roll last night. It gives you a great boost on your way to a large group of " the magnificent 7 " plus a few more that I know you are organizing.
  • OnedollarnohollarOnedollarnohollar Posts: 2,035 ✭✭✭✭
    Welcome to the discussion ILove09DDRs! Great buy on the 043's last night. How long have you been collecting these errors? Now you can call yourself a doubled die-hard!





    imageimage
  • ConstantineConstantine Posts: 2,368 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Hi everyone, I have been lurking on this thread for awhile now, even started collecting the errors.
    Paid a little dummy money here and there, but also have some decent coins.

    I won the roll of 043s tonight. They may even get cheaper, i'll be buying more on the way down

    Thanks everyone for your contributions to this Forum and the the knowledge I have
    gained to this point. >>



    Welcome!
  • pitbosspitboss Posts: 8,643 ✭✭✭
    You must have been looking at what highlowleaves had for his name on here. Good choice buddy! I love it!
  • I have read most of this board, missed some of the last few months but did some catching up last night including everyone's speculation on how many 006s were made.
    I started collecting late last years. The first thing I did was buy a bank box off of ebay. I still have 11 unopened rolls from that box but did find about 8 rolls worth of mainly the WDDR-027 plus a few
    other of the less significant errors. The first quality errors I obtained were from rolls that I bought off of the Pitboss. Since then I have focused on accumulating mainly the 006, 016, 025, 043, 050, 051 and a couple of the others. I do have some 002s but am not going to actively pursue the 002 or the 001 for that matter.
  • pitbosspitboss Posts: 8,643 ✭✭✭
    Don/t forget the 001! It is an important coin and also don't forget to make sure your PM is turned on so you can get and send private messages.
  • I am not forgetting the 001, just that at this time I feel they are easy enough to get that it is better for me to focus on the other top quality errors. I was at a coin show yesterday, was the first time I saw a dealer offering any of these coins at all. He had 3 wddr-001s and 1 wddr-043. All were in circulated condition and were listed at $25 each.

    How do I turn PM on?
  • OnedollarnohollarOnedollarnohollar Posts: 2,035 ✭✭✭✭
    Go to your profile page and click "allow private messages". You can also change your Icon to the Formative Years reverse if you want to at the bottom of the profile page (unless you have

    a mac computer) . Good to see you've done your homework in identifying the best errors to search for. As Pitboss has indicated, the WDDR-001/CDDR-002 is a key to have in your

    collection. It is NOT as common as you may think. Enjoy your searches imageimage
  • pitbosspitboss Posts: 8,643 ✭✭✭
    The reason you think it is common is that it was one of the first few that were found.

    No one had even thought about them being in mint rolls until Papi started going through them and tried to convince others that they were in there.

    I along with most others did not want to go through bank boxes and were content with what we found in LP2's (big mistake).

    I corrected that mistake, on my part, last year and paid dearly to come up with what I have since then though.

    Papi was the guiding light and has continued to bring these to the forefront so we will get more collectors involved.

    This is what we need to get these coins off ground zero and collectors like yourself are our lifeblood.

    Most of the good date LP2 have been opened and the errors pulled out is why it appears that there are a lot of them .

    There do appear to be a lot more 002's than 001's though, that is why along with the 006 the 001 is a key coin.
  • It isn't that I am not open to collecting the 001 and 002, but I am comfortable knowing that I can obtain them at a low price if I am patient.

    I have to be realistic about how I go about obtaining any errors. I am not as likely to buy good lp2 boxes or bank boxes in mass. When an opportunity presents itself, I get them.
    But my best bet at this stage of the game is to buy errors from the collectors who got in on these early. And as I did with the roll of 043s last night, let the price come to me.
  • PapiPapi Posts: 1,189 ✭✭


    << <i>Papi was the guiding light and has continued to bring these to the forefront so we will get more collectors involved. >>



    Thanks for the kudos guys.

    I sometimes take a position I don't agree with, for the sake of debate; I'm the devil's advocate of the group.

    Sometimes I come off as curt, but it's all for the good of the discussion.

    Right or wrong, and as gruff as I can sometimes be, I'm ALL IN ! imageimage




    << <i>The WDDR-001/CDDR-002 is a key to have in your collection. It is NOT as common as you may think >>



    Onedollarnohollar is correct; the 001 is about 80-85% less abundant than the 002. You may find a set that has an equal number of both 001 & 002 but that is very rare.



    What Makes the 002 special is the doubling at the top of the book.

    This is a MAJOR HUB ROTATION by any experts standard. Can any of you mathematicians calculate the angle?

    I believe it's only because the finger is not complete, and we don't see the traditional double letters or numbers, that so-called experts have ignored this MAJOR DDR

    image
  • From my viewpoint, the experts have ignored all of these DDRs.
    Probably more to do with them not obtaining quantities of them on there own and not being able to acquire them for pennies on the dollar at an estate sale and
    less to do with the WDDRs themselves
  • PapiPapi Posts: 1,189 ✭✭


    << <i>This is a MAJOR HUB ROTATION by any experts standard. Can any of you mathematicians calculate the angle?

    I believe it's only because the finger is not complete, and we don't see the traditional double letters or numbers, that so-called experts have ignored this MAJOR DDR

    image >>




    I'm getting an 18.5 degree clockwise rotation. Anyone else?
  • halfhunterhalfhunter Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭
    Opened a 4/30 roll today . . . Mostly these:

    image

    image

    Anyone care to guess the WDDR#?

    Edited to add this:

    image

    Looks like doubling above index finger with added metal on book spine.

    HH
    Need the following OBW rolls to complete my 46-64 Roosevelt roll set:
    1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
    Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
  • pitbosspitboss Posts: 8,643 ✭✭✭
    I have found that the 4/30 roll is only good early in the morning.
  • DentuckDentuck Posts: 3,819 ✭✭✭
    What's the best way to examine these coins? What would
    you recommend to a new collector?


  • ConstantineConstantine Posts: 2,368 ✭✭✭


    << <i>What's the best way to examine these coins? What would
    you recommend to a new collector? >>



    If you mean to literally examine them, all a collector needs is an inexpensive 10x loupe.
  • pitbosspitboss Posts: 8,643 ✭✭✭
    I think that anyone interested in these coins should realize that he needs to have a good source to learn about them.

    I recommend using Wexlers guide to doubledies.

    Next he needs to have some sort of magnification that will allow him to see what he is looking at.

    Next he needs to select a small group of coins he wants to view and purchase them on ebay.

    The coins I would recommend him selecting are WDDR's 001,002,006,016,025,043, and 050 which are the numbers that already have cherry pickers guide numbers assigned to them.

    Wexler's guide will show him how to recognize the die markers that verify each coin as to what it is.

    I do not recommend that he (or she) should try to identify all of these other coins until he has mastered the key coins.
  • HIGHLOWLEAVESHIGHLOWLEAVES Posts: 783 ✭✭✭
    Hello Pitboss, well said !! To the point and very helpful to the 2009 P FY DDR collector.
    Specialized Investments
  • PapiPapi Posts: 1,189 ✭✭
    2013 US Mint Coin Production Figures

    ............................Feb 2013 YTD 2013

    Lincoln Cent – D 297.20 M 596.00 M
    Lincoln Cent – P 252.40 M 628.40 M


    Where do all these go?

    I can't remember the last time I saw anyone, at a store, dig in their pocket for change of any kind
  • pitbosspitboss Posts: 8,643 ✭✭✭
    It has gotten to the point that the general public does not use the cent anymore.

    Every store has a penny tray and if you need a few pennies to make up your purchase you are welcome to take what you need.

    Go outside the store and there are pennies laying around where people have tossed them.

    At home the ones that have not either used the penny tray or thrown them on the ground have a big water jug half filled with them.

    In other words there are 10s of millions out there not even being looked at.

    The mint has most likely released all they had of the 09's and the supply will eventually dry up that is available to look through.

    Then the circulated coins will start to show up.

  • OnedollarnohollarOnedollarnohollar Posts: 2,035 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>What's the best way to examine these coins? What would
    you recommend to a new collector?
    >>




    (1) I would recommend a pair of cotton gloves for handling them, (2) a good loupe or dinolite, (3) some 2x2's for storage and cataloging, and (4) the Redbook or CPG because both of

    them have a tremendous amount of information about these errors for the new-to-the-Formative-error-hobbyists to learn from.

    OOPS....I meant to say.....both publications (Redbook/CPG) may SOMEDAY have a tremendous amount of information about these errors for the new-to-the-Formative-error-hobbyists

    to learn from.


    Right now Pitboss is right, go to John Wexler's site for doubled die attribution, pics, and die stage info. I still recommend the first three items listed for examination and cataloging.

    Oh, and as always, become a true believer, a doubled die-hard for these, and keep the faith!

    imageimage
  • halfhunterhalfhunter Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭
    I'm afraid that I'm probably out of the DDR LP2 business . . . Before I even got into it.
    I have poured through the threads here, took notes, tried to figure what would be the rolls to buy with the greatest chance of having errors & I'm more confused than ever. While the hunt would be fun, Im just a poor ol'working stiff and can't afford to buy a bunch of rolls on e-Bay that don't stand a chance in hell of producing DDRs. The learning curve that others have experienced is just more than my ol'po arse can afford.

    But I'll hang on to what I have and I'm still a believer ! ! !

    imageimage

    HH
    Need the following OBW rolls to complete my 46-64 Roosevelt roll set:
    1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
    Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
  • OnedollarnohollarOnedollarnohollar Posts: 2,035 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i> While the hunt would be fun, Im just a poor ol'working stiff and can't afford to buy a bunch of rolls on e-Bay it is just more than my ol'po arse can afford. >>



    Uh, didn't you discover the 2008/2007 reverse silver eagle error? ol'po arse? You're in the coin collector hall of fame for your discovery! Streets and schools are named after you!

    (ok that might be an exaggeration..haha) I find it hard to believe you were left out of your own gravy train. Should have "wet your beak" (line from the Godfather) a "little" for your

    troubles. Po boys and girls collect pennies not eagles and classic half dollars. image I collect pennies (only) image

    There is some effort required to search, find, and catalog your findings. There will be a box or two that shoots blanks....but those that hold the treasures are so much fun to go through!

    To be a true believer you must be on this quest with us. Go back and look for the pages that spell out the lp2 box dates and what they should hold inside. Buy a bank box or two and share

    with us what you discovered. I haven't spent nearly as much money as others have chasing these (I really am Po, comparatively) and don't have the largest hoard but what I lack in volume

    I make up for by being specific in my searches with advance knowledge (acquired by reading available websites and this forum) giving me the edge in getting what I'm after. Have I taken

    some risks along the way (guessing, hoping) that I'd get lucky? Absolutely! Have I hit a homerun every time...heck no! The SEARCH is still a thrill! I'm glad to have shared this

    information with you and many others over the years as have a few others that frequent this thread. Whatever your involvement or how active you are in collecting these dynamic error

    cents is in the future I'm glad you will remain a true believer John...a 2009p Formative Years doubled die-hard! imageimage

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