Papi, when you say "die wear" do you mean hub or machine doubling? Oh, and I too have seen some of these circulated samples on Ebay. At the prices they're asking I'll stick with
the uncirculated types. Dengarsen is selling 006's for about $12... rolls of 50 "best of the bests" are selling for less than $6 per coin in recent auctions. It's premature in my opinion
Ok, I have not seen any. I have asked at the bank and they gave me a dumb look and said they did not even know what I was talking about so I just figured that these were all locked up somewhere and none had gotten out to the general population.
Papi, I think it's more than die wear like the '55 poor man. If you look closely (difficult to capture completely with my camera but still discernable) at the pics I provided you will see the
"shadow effect" surrounding the 2 like you would see on the wddr-006. In other words there's a deep indentation (impression) in front (left side) of the 2 along with a doubling effect inside
and to the right of each number in the date, not just the last number as on the '55. In hand it looks at least like machine doubling but it's so similar to the look that the 006 has under
a loupe that it's very cool to see. Again, it's a definate die marker for the 086's that I have found, every one has it, and I haven't seen anything like it on any other error coins other than
Die Markers: Obverse Stage A: Two parallel die scratches run NE from the bottom right Y of LIBERTY. Obverse Stage B: A small die gouge can be found to the right of the bottom of the E in WE. A die crack runs from NNW to SSE through the lower forehead above the eyebrow and then branches SW and SE through the eyebrow. Obverse Stage C: A pre-die crack depression runs from SW to NE through the hair on the upper back of the head south of GOD. Obverse Stage A die crack runs from SW to NE through the hair on the upper back of the head south of GOD. A pre-die chip depression can be found near the upper end of the die crack in the forehead.
With 4 different obverse stages, he makes no mention of doubling on the date
Pitboss, as you know, there are reverse errors that have similar looks...the 028, 034, 086, and 096. I'm not saying though that ALL 086's should have this doubling effect obverse on the
date, just the particular samples I'm finding. Could be a late stage obverse. This is where the die markers come into play to decipher which error you actually are looking at. One
distinguishing factor is the length of the "spike" in relation to the thumb and how parallel it is to the book spine. Believe me, it is a challenge even for those of us with excellent vision.
The 086 does have a diagonal die scratch above the last "S" in "States" as another defining marker. Well, it's back to roll searching for me...later guys!
I will look through some more of mine for that die scratch and check them out the best I can but for your own peace of mind just send it in to be authenticated.
I just shot an email off to John Wexler. I know he's busy but I hope he can look at the pics I attached and give me an idea. I also invited him to join us for a comment or two on this thread.
OK . . . I received my 10 rolls that I bought off e-bay from Pittboss yesterday. Plus he included some extra goodies.
SOOOO I got my setup done with the old 411T & my old computer:
Some of the extra Goodys . . .
These are uncropped and I don't know how big these will come out here since the damn preview function seems to not be working for me. Also I'm not sure why they are capturing with no color . . . But I'm capturing with the scope touching the coin.
These lil buggers are pretty damn cool ! ! !
HH
Need the following OBW rolls to complete my 46-64 Roosevelt roll set: 1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S. Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
I'm glad you are happy. The setup looks pretty good and you sure get better pictures with you dino scope than I do. It has to be me . I am so stupid when it comes to working with computers.
And on my day off today (12 hour night shifts Thursday thru the weekend ) Decided to do a lil cooking . . .
Standing rib roast on the ol'charcoal:
Nice medium rare . . . The rib bones are MINE ! ! !
Then some asparagus, soaked in Robusto Italian, on the coals,:
And a pan of oven roasted potatoes/sweet onion/mushrooms with garlic-rosemary seasoning, olive oil salt $ pepper:
Along with copious amounts of Bud Light Platinum . . .
Man am I stuffed ! ! !
HH
Need the following OBW rolls to complete my 46-64 Roosevelt roll set: 1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S. Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
<< <i>From doubled thumbs to doubled ribs...nice! Cheers! >>
LOL . . . It was part of my Valentines gift to my ol'gal.
Anyway one more pic . . .
I took a high intensity halogen desk light & placed it about 2-3 inches from the coin and used the LEDs also.
I think that the extra light gives it a little more contrast . . . What y'all think? Thought that maybe the extra light would add color to the cent. No luck there. I can only use the halogen in short bursts though because of the heat . . . Don't want to melt the scope.
Sure hope that I'm not being a pest . . . If I am, just let me know . . . I have a thick ol'forum hyde ! ! !
HH
Need the following OBW rolls to complete my 46-64 Roosevelt roll set: 1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S. Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
LOL . . . I'm almost 60 years old but I still remember when I was a young'un, Mama saying;
"Now Johnny don't make a pest of yourself".
HH
Need the following OBW rolls to complete my 46-64 Roosevelt roll set: 1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S. Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
I like your last pic HH. The extra light seems to work well. You might be able to work with the color in your computer's photo editing tools.
By the way, this thread would not have lasted as long as it has if anyone was worried about being a pest by posting too much. I like to think of this thread as a long conversation
between friends. We "believers" don't just post random thoughts here and there. If you want to find out anything about these errors, whether it's deciphering which error you just found,
avoiding pitfalls by finding out what NOT to buy, getting fresh information about a new source for great bank boxes, knowing which LP2 mint boxes (dates and times) are ripe
for cherry picking, or just want to talk about the long overdue publications that will ultimately enhance the value of these by alerting the general collecting public to them, this is
the place. We are not necessarily "pioneers", (we could use a good cook though on this wagon train and by the looks of your barbecued feast you'd make a good one).
Many of us have been collecting these since the "discoveries" became known. We have suffered the slings and arrows from the "serious" collectors for quite some time and have been a
little Don Quixote-ish in our quest, but we carry on because we are "believers"! Welcome HH and any lurkers! Carry on Doubled Die-Hards!
Yes,like mentioned,not a pest at all! I also,love that last photo, One of if not thee "best" of the bunch,the famous "Skeleton Finger"! Was this one of the gifts or one you've found in the rolls? Nice. -joey By the way, I love my steak medium rare! Man-n-n,did you make me have a taste for a Porterhouse.
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
Imagery is good, but the glare compromises some details. If you can tilt the coin back and forth a bit (I use a big hardcover book for the photo platform, then hinge/tilt the cover up until the light is right), sometimes the glare can be eliminated and details will stand out. It's all about the lighting.
I wasn't sure if it was the 006 skeleton or one of the "odd" ones since I couldn't see the finger detail.
And as for that rib roast shot, I was disappointed there wasn't a DDR in there somewhere! Sure made me hungry...
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
The Almanac that I recently received had NO, ZERO, NADA mention of these errors. Hopefully the new Redbook for 2013 will be more expansive in their coverage of these.
Where did they come up with a 014 to use? Don't recall what that was...
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
Yeah,I don't know why they would only choose #14 either? but when you see #14,it's pretty dramatic! a not bad choice when you think about it. I have many of those in fact.How about you guys? In saying that,I too would rather have the "Skeleton Finger" highlighted. -joey
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
Since this is my 1200th post,I thought that I would have it here! In the true-believers thread.Keep on hunting and hoping!Welcome all lurkers,com'on board.Seek for those "Formative Years" DD's. -joey
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
<< <i>The 2009 Wddr-014 is the only error that appears in the 2011 Professional Edition Red Book
Who knows if they've expanded the 2013 edition; I doubt it. >>
A chart note exists in the Red Book mentioning that the errors exist but values of the various varieties vary depending upon the extent of the doubling.
Maybe the professional guidebook will go a little bit further when it comes out.
It's a painstaking slow and costly process to get all these changes into print.
We all tend to want these things to happen overnight but it's not our money being spent to get it done.
Digital may be the way to go but cd's don't look as impressive on a bookshelf. Also the author's and publisher's names aren't seen as readily..I'm sure an ego thing
to continue to publish books. It's ok, they'll eventually come out with what we're waiting for. In the meantime, like someone had posted earlier, we have more
"collecting our hoard" time.
Just a curiosity, are there any women collectors of these like the Penny Lady?
Congrat's PB on the dozen skeletons! Best I did was 9, thought that was a boomer box.
Type2, that looks more like a real error -- I don't recall there being any die varieties looking like that. Cool!
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
Yeah pitboss! I think you hit the mother lode? That's probably going to be the best roll anybody will find in a while? Congrats. This gives us more encouragement on any end rolls,with a "Skeleton Finger" on it. Very cool!Nice find.
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
Has anybody noticed the price of those 014's and 043's that treazure chest has been selling the past 3 weeks. They seem to be getting more expensive every week. I think it is just because everyone is getting tired of searching boxes and has figured out that $5 a coin is not much to pay when you consider that a box of 50 rolls is around $100 with no guarantees. I really like those 43's and traded some 25's for a bunch of 43's last week. Sent 30 of them off to ANACS for grading along with 10 more 006's.
Yes, I have followed those sales. Unbelievable how many of these he has to sell. I think I've seen at least 150 of each error sold by him in the last couple of weeks.
I've never come across either of them in my searches...so a little jealous I guess. They're selling closer to $6 per coin now in his auctions. A good buy for future
flipping I would say. I just received six bank boxes Saturday but haven't had a chance to start really digging in due to my work schedule. A cursory look at the ends
of rolls didn't show anything stupendous. I'll get more serious about them on my days off and hopefully find some hidden treasures.
I have four rolls only with the 006 on the end but now I'm more curious as to what lies inside. I had 13 of the 006's in one roll. That is my personal record, but no
010's were found (that I recorded anyway). The time on that box was 09:54 batch 9774 for reference.
Pitboss, you are my hero with your intense search, your aggressive (and smart) trades, and your generous sharing of information. You were one of the first
"Doubled-Diehards" and you are still going strong! Keep it going (I don't think I'll ever catch you in the volume of errors that you've accumulated...but I'm gonna try)
I think I'll be limiting my purchases to the "sure things" from now on. Ordered a mint box recently that was dated and timed similarly to one that yielded a nice mix of
1's and 2's in the past. The bank box thing is getting tiresome and expensive too. I suppose if I were to find one that was packed full of the best of the bests I wouldn't
get tired, but it can be tedious work searching roll after roll with just minor errors and insignificant die cracks showing up under my loupe. Who knows, I may get the
itch again to search a bank box but for now I'm putting a hold on buying much of anything unless it is a "sure thing".
I have had no luck with those brinks rolls in the past but were hoping you would hit a sweet spot. It can get expensive to buy these boxes. I have a feeling that the good boxes have been hit pretty hard. I am pretty well satisfied with what I have found in the past year. I should have listened to Papi 3 years ago but I could not picture myself going through a bank box. never mind almost 300 boxes of 2500 coins, looking for these errors but it has been fun. I have reached the point where I can pick and choose what I buy as I really don't need any more than what I have. I have mainly concentrated on the magnificent 7 that have CPG numbers . That is where my interests lie. I even took 6000 die cracks to the bank today just to get rid of them along with a bunch of other very minor errors that have no appeal to me.
I love the good errors though and will continue to pick them up when the opportunity exists.
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
<< <i>Has anybody noticed the price of those 014's and 043's that treazure chest has been selling the past 3 weeks. They seem to be getting more expensive every week. I think it is just because everyone is getting tired of searching boxes and has figured out that $5 a coin is not much to pay when you consider that a box of 50 rolls is around $100 with no guarantees. I really like those 43's and traded some 25's for a bunch of 43's last week. Sent 30 of them off to ANACS for grading along with 10 more 006's. >>
It's a race to the finish line on a roll of 025's and a roll of 043's belonging to treazure chest now tied at $76.
which one are you going after Pitboss? My prediction...the 25's will go for about $175 , the 43's about $275 .... I also predict I will not have a horse in this race...
Comments
<< <i>I did not realize they had released any of these. >>
Huh? They were released in bank rolls
Here's a couple circulated ones; I've seen others
WDDR-062
WDDR-050
WDDR-030
the uncirculated types. Dengarsen is selling 006's for about $12... rolls of 50 "best of the bests" are selling for less than $6 per coin in recent auctions. It's premature in my opinion
to sell these off. I sit and wait for the CPG.
<< <i>Papi, when you say "die wear" do you mean hub or machine doubling? >>
Neither; I would liken it to 1955 "Poor Man's"
Die wear
"shadow effect" surrounding the 2 like you would see on the wddr-006. In other words there's a deep indentation (impression) in front (left side) of the 2 along with a doubling effect inside
and to the right of each number in the date, not just the last number as on the '55. In hand it looks at least like machine doubling but it's so similar to the look that the 006 has under
a loupe that it's very cool to see. Again, it's a definate die marker for the 086's that I have found, every one has it, and I haven't seen anything like it on any other error coins other than
the 006.
Wexler describes the obverse die markers as:
2009 1¢ FY WDDR-086
Die Markers: Obverse Stage A: Two parallel die scratches run NE from the bottom right Y of LIBERTY. Obverse Stage B: A small die gouge can be found to the right of the bottom of the E in WE. A die crack runs from NNW to SSE through the lower forehead above the eyebrow and then branches SW and SE through the eyebrow. Obverse Stage C: A pre-die crack depression runs from SW to NE through the hair on the upper back of the head south of GOD. Obverse Stage
With 4 different obverse stages, he makes no mention of doubling on the date
I too have many rolls of these coins so am curious.
<< <i>Send one in and find out, it only costs about $5 I think, and then you will know.
I too have many rolls of these coins so am curious. >>
It's not something that he'd overlook, having attributed 4 different stages.
I'd keep my $5
date, just the particular samples I'm finding. Could be a late stage obverse. This is where the die markers come into play to decipher which error you actually are looking at. One
distinguishing factor is the length of the "spike" in relation to the thumb and how parallel it is to the book spine. Believe me, it is a challenge even for those of us with excellent vision.
The 086 does have a diagonal die scratch above the last "S" in "States" as another defining marker. Well, it's back to roll searching for me...later guys!
<< <i> The 086 does have a diagonal die scratch above the last "S" in "States" as another defining marker. >>
All mine have the same scratch
SOOOO I got my setup done with the old 411T & my old computer:
Some of the extra Goodys . . .
These are uncropped and I don't know how big these will come out here since the damn preview function seems to not be working for me. Also I'm not sure why they are capturing with no color . . . But I'm capturing with the scope touching the coin.
These lil buggers are pretty damn cool ! ! !
HH
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
Standing rib roast on the ol'charcoal:
Nice medium rare . . . The rib bones are MINE ! ! !
Then some asparagus, soaked in Robusto Italian, on the coals,:
And a pan of oven roasted potatoes/sweet onion/mushrooms with garlic-rosemary seasoning, olive oil salt $ pepper:
Along with copious amounts of Bud Light Platinum . . .
Man am I stuffed ! ! !
HH
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
<< <i>From doubled thumbs to doubled ribs...nice!
LOL . . . It was part of my Valentines gift to my ol'gal.
Anyway one more pic . . .
I took a high intensity halogen desk light & placed it about 2-3 inches from the coin and used the LEDs also.
I think that the extra light gives it a little more contrast . . . What y'all think? Thought that maybe the extra light would add color to the cent. No luck there. I can only use the halogen in short bursts though because of the heat . . . Don't want to melt the scope.
Sure hope that I'm not being a pest
HH
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
"Now Johnny don't make a pest of yourself".
HH
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
By the way, this thread would not have lasted as long as it has if anyone was worried about being a pest by posting too much. I like to think of this thread as a long conversation
between friends. We "believers" don't just post random thoughts here and there. If you want to find out anything about these errors, whether it's deciphering which error you just found,
avoiding pitfalls by finding out what NOT to buy, getting fresh information about a new source for great bank boxes, knowing which LP2 mint boxes (dates and times) are ripe
for cherry picking, or just want to talk about the long overdue publications that will ultimately enhance the value of these by alerting the general collecting public to them, this is
the place. We are not necessarily "pioneers", (we could use a good cook though on this wagon train and by the looks of your barbecued feast you'd make a good one).
Many of us have been collecting these since the "discoveries" became known. We have suffered the slings and arrows from the "serious" collectors for quite some time and have been a
little Don Quixote-ish in our quest, but we carry on because we are "believers"! Welcome HH and any lurkers! Carry on Doubled Die-Hards!
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.I wasn't sure if it was the 006 skeleton or one of the "odd" ones since I couldn't see the finger detail.
And as for that rib roast shot, I was disappointed there wasn't a DDR in there somewhere! Sure made me hungry...
Who knows if they've expanded the 2013 edition; I doubt it.
<< <i>Where did they come up with a 014 to use? Don't recall what that was... >>
Who know's, maybe JT Stanton or Ken Potter
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line."Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.<< <i>The 2009 Wddr-014 is the only error that appears in the 2011 Professional Edition Red Book
Who knows if they've expanded the 2013 edition; I doubt it. >>
A chart note exists in the Red Book mentioning that the errors exist but values of the various varieties vary depending upon the extent of the doubling.
Maybe the professional guidebook will go a little bit further when it comes out.
It's a painstaking slow and costly process to get all these changes into print.
We all tend to want these things to happen overnight but it's not our money being spent to get it done.
That's why a digital book would be better,
to continue to publish books. It's ok, they'll eventually come out with what we're waiting for. In the meantime, like someone had posted earlier, we have more
"collecting our hoard" time.
Just a curiosity, are there any women collectors of these like the Penny Lady?
<< <i>Marilyn Keeney's coin corner has been in these right from the beginning and has about all of them listed on her web page. >>
Marilyn's prices are high, but she has a website to pay for and she guarantees MS63 or better
How was your weekend?
I decided to open up a roll with an 006 on the end this morning to start my week.
I am glad I did as that would have made a big mistake to sell that roll.
It contained 12 WDDR 006's and 9 WDDR 010's in that one roll.
My best find ever in a roll of 4/23.
I found this one some time ago the only i found.
Hoard the keys.
Type2, that looks more like a real error -- I don't recall there being any die varieties looking like that. Cool!
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.I've never come across either of them in my searches...so a little jealous I guess. They're selling closer to $6 per coin now in his auctions. A good buy for future
flipping I would say. I just received six bank boxes Saturday but haven't had a chance to start really digging in due to my work schedule. A cursory look at the ends
of rolls didn't show anything stupendous. I'll get more serious about them on my days off and hopefully find some hidden treasures.
I have four rolls only with the 006 on the end but now I'm more curious as to what lies inside. I had 13 of the 006's in one roll. That is my personal record, but no
010's were found (that I recorded anyway). The time on that box was 09:54 batch 9774 for reference.
Pitboss, you are my hero with your intense search, your aggressive (and smart) trades, and your generous sharing of information. You were one of the first
"Doubled-Diehards" and you are still going strong! Keep it going (I don't think I'll ever catch you in the volume of errors that you've accumulated...but I'm gonna try)
Onward fellow "believers"!
1's and 2's in the past. The bank box thing is getting tiresome and expensive too. I suppose if I were to find one that was packed full of the best of the bests I wouldn't
get tired, but it can be tedious work searching roll after roll with just minor errors and insignificant die cracks showing up under my loupe. Who knows, I may get the
itch again to search a bank box but for now I'm putting a hold on buying much of anything unless it is a "sure thing".
Go get 'em Doubled die-hards!
I love the good errors though and will continue to pick them up when the opportunity exists.
<< <i>Focusing on the "sure things" I received an LP2 mint box today dated 4/27 12:25 .... what will I find inside?
I suspect you already know or you wouldn't have bought it.
<< <i>Has anybody noticed the price of those 014's and 043's that treazure chest has been selling the past 3 weeks. They seem to be getting more expensive every week. I think it is just because everyone is getting tired of searching boxes and has figured out that $5 a coin is not much to pay when you consider that a box of 50 rolls is around $100 with no guarantees. I really like those 43's and traded some 25's for a bunch of 43's last week. Sent 30 of them off to ANACS for grading along with 10 more 006's. >>
It's a race to the finish line on a roll of 025's and a roll of 043's belonging to treazure chest now tied at $76.
Which one will come out on top?
good luck to those that do