<< <i>Here's a short article from the Detroit News regarding the auction. Oddly enough, the article makes a vague claim that Dmitri had $5M into his collection, which means he actually lost money on the sale. I find that hard to believe... >>
I would guess that he had to buy a few RC cards that he thought might get the "10" before actually getting it. There is a picture of him in SMR looking at a bunch of raw cards so I would think that he has a nice lot of NM-MT+ rookies. >>
There's no telling how many crack and resubmits where done, old flip submissions, etc. I find it hard to believe Dmitri lost money on those cards. I hope he did really good, more for charity.
<< <i>pop report has 11 clemente rookies in psa 9.
assuming there are, indeed, 11 separately holdered psa 9s ...
think any of them, given the right circumstances, could become a psa 10?
and the same for the twenty-one (per pop report) aaron rookies in psa 9.
given what you know about the hobby/grading, can you definitely say no? >>
The Clemente 10 looked very solid for the grade; with so few 9s, it's tough to say if one of them can hang with that particular 10.
But I'd bet good money that at least one of the extant Aaron 9s is even better looking than the SCP-offered 10.
That's why I think putting so much stock in what some graders say is crazy-- when that stock takes the form of a huge premium being paid for the PSA 10 (and in those specific cases where the 10 has some discernible flaws AND there are stunning 9s at large).
I wonder wher the rest of the collection is or if has been sold throughout time. I know dave bailey used to buy many multiples of 9's on some items , I think I sold him several rice rookies and it was stated somewhere that dmitre loved to crack vending cases. from that perspective , I think the total is tough to compute. he lost money on some of the 60's 70's stuff but he made out very well on the big boys. as an example, if memory serves me correct , he paid 150k for the aaron on a deal that was brokered by memory lane
<< <i>Here's a short article from the Detroit News regarding the auction. Oddly enough, the article makes a vague claim that Dmitri had $5M into his collection, which means he actually lost money on the sale. I find that hard to believe... >>
I would guess that he had to buy a few RC cards that he thought might get the "10" before actually getting it. There is a picture of him in SMR looking at a bunch of raw cards so I would think that he has a nice lot of NM-MT+ rookies. >>
There's no telling how many crack and resubmits where done, old flip submissions, etc. I find it hard to believe Dmitri lost money on those cards. I hope he did really good, more for charity. >>
Yes, that could be how they arrived at the $5M figure. It just sucks that we have more negative press about baseball cards (ie. a bad investment), when it may very well be a great sale for Dmitri.
It looks like PSA's SMR has been updated at least through 1979. It's interesting to see what they did with the PSA 10's as a result of the auction. Being that they only list prices of PSA 10's starting in 1977, there are only 3 years to look at so far. They bumped the Ozzie to 9,500, the Murray to 3,500 the Molitor to 3,700 and the Dawson to 975. Of course with the possible exception of Molitor, none of these cards went for anywhere near the guide. Just seems kind of random the way they come up with their prices. The last 2 PSA 10 Ozzie's have gone for 20K each so where is this 9,500 price about? I would think PSA would make it more accurate as the higher the number the better for business.
I also don't get how they list prices for PSA 10's with Population of zero.
The Clockwork Angel Collection...brought to you by Bank of America, Wells Fargo, and Chase TheClockworkAngelCollection
Just getting back into town, and havent had a chance to Congratulate all those that one Dmitri Young cards. Its cool to know that so many cards went to board members. Congrats to Eric on the Clemente and Brock haul! If anyone happens to know or finds out who purchased that Musial PSA 10, I would really like to know.
<< <i>It looks like PSA's SMR has been updated at least through 1979. It's interesting to see what they did with the PSA 10's as a result of the auction. Being that they only list prices of PSA 10's starting in 1977, there are only 3 years to look at so far. They bumped the Ozzie to 9,500, the Murray to 3,500 the Molitor to 3,700 and the Dawson to 975. Of course with the possible exception of Molitor, none of these cards went for anywhere near the guide. Just seems kind of random the way they come up with their prices. The last 2 PSA 10 Ozzie's have gone for 20K each so where is this 9,500 price about? I would think PSA would make it more accurate as the higher the number the better for business.
I also don't get how they list prices for PSA 10's with Population of zero. >>
Because, and correct me if this has been said before - SMR VALUES HAVE NO BASIS IN REALITY. NONE. ZIP. NADA.
---------------------- Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989 ----------------------
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<< <i>It looks like PSA's SMR has been updated at least through 1979. It's interesting to see what they did with the PSA 10's as a result of the auction. Being that they only list prices of PSA 10's starting in 1977, there are only 3 years to look at so far. They bumped the Ozzie to 9,500, the Murray to 3,500 the Molitor to 3,700 and the Dawson to 975. Of course with the possible exception of Molitor, none of these cards went for anywhere near the guide. Just seems kind of random the way they come up with their prices. The last 2 PSA 10 Ozzie's have gone for 20K each so where is this 9,500 price about? I would think PSA would make it more accurate as the higher the number the better for business.
I also don't get how they list prices for PSA 10's with Population of zero. >>
Because, and correct me if this has been said before - SMR VALUES HAVE NO BASIS IN REALITY. NONE. ZIP. NADA. >>
How about I correct you for being correct?
With all due respect to PSA and SMR ... the prices listed in SMR are far from accurate. They should partner with VCP and have it's data pulled directly into their SMR. And that's only a start ... you need to take where the card is sold and WHAT THE CARD ACTUALLY LOOKS LIKE into consideration.
And I'm sorry but the 20k price tag for the Ozzie is simply still not a realistic price tag IMO. I've said it before and I'll say it again until someone can prove otherwise, but these auction houses create an atmosphere for flat out unrealistic and sometimes highly suspect prices. Furthermore, when a VCP average comes from JUST these auction houses not even VCP can be trusted anymore IMO for these items.
I think in general, SMR is much more favorable for the buyer. I've had numerous buyers quote me SMR when asking to negotiate a price on a BIN item I have. I always will try and work with a buyer to find a mutually agreeable price, but I also will point out the past actual sales that have occurred on eBay. >>
Asking VCP or SMR to take into account WHERE a card was sold, or what it LOOKS LIKE in comparison to others is obviously an impossibility and a ridiculous suggestion. Your assertion that the 20K pricetag on Ozzie is unrealistic is simply based on the fact that they were NOT sold on ebay? This shouldn't be surprising to anyone who has followed similar auctions in the past - many wealthy buyers bid on auction house items and they don't necessarily have the time to browse Ebay for deals everyday. This is one reason why auction houses will continue to get higher prices for their items. And instead of requiring the auction houses to prove that they are not artificially inflating their bids (I assume you mean they are doing in-house shilling), why don't you provide some evidence that they are?
<< <i> This shouldn't be surprising to anyone who has followed similar auctions in the past - many wealthy buyers bid on auction house items and they don't necessarily have the time to browse Ebay for deals everyday. This is one reason why auction houses will continue to get higher prices for their items. >>
I hadn't really thought of that before. It would tend to explain the "outlier" prices of many auctions. The big fish can't be bothered to hang out with the "bottom feeding $.99 auction" crowd.
---------------------- Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989 ----------------------
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Its pretty funny visiting some of the other forums to read their thoughts about the SCP auction. It was clearly on everyone's radar.
The guys over at Net54, our pre-war specialty friends, have no grasp whatsoever on whats been going on in the 50s - 70's high grade market over the last year. They were speechless at some of the prices, but since those guys are all SCG collectors, and somewhat unfamiliar with PSA and PSA pop reports, none of the forums ever even mentioned or discussed how the Clemente, Rose, and Aaron were all pop 1's. They viewed the prices in a vacuum and just couldn't get their arms around it. Many even speculated that the buyers must have been financial investment firms and were people who weren't even collectors. LOL... The "anti-modern" and "anti-PSA" sentiment over there is breathtaking.
<< <i>It looks like PSA's SMR has been updated at least through 1979. It's interesting to see what they did with the PSA 10's as a result of the auction. Being that they only list prices of PSA 10's starting in 1977, there are only 3 years to look at so far. They bumped the Ozzie to 9,500, the Murray to 3,500 the Molitor to 3,700 and the Dawson to 975. Of course with the possible exception of Molitor, none of these cards went for anywhere near the guide. Just seems kind of random the way they come up with their prices. The last 2 PSA 10 Ozzie's have gone for 20K each so where is this 9,500 price about? I would think PSA would make it more accurate as the higher the number the better for business.
I also don't get how they list prices for PSA 10's with Population of zero. >>
Because, and correct me if this has been said before - SMR VALUES HAVE NO BASIS IN REALITY. NONE. ZIP. NADA. >>
And I'm sorry but the 20k price tag for the Ozzie is simply still not a realistic price tag IMO. I've said it before and I'll say it again until someone can prove otherwise, but these auction houses create an atmosphere for flat out unrealistic and sometimes highly suspect prices. Furthermore, when a VCP average comes from JUST these auction houses not even VCP can be trusted anymore IMO for these items. . >>
The last 2 Ozzies have sold for 20K. There are a total of 4. It is the most rare Superstar HOF modern RC in Grade 10 in existence. But the mere fact that the last 2 of the 4 that exist sold for 20K says that it is a very realistic price tag. How do you define realistic? It may seem extraordinarily high to you, but facts are facts and this is now a 20K card.
In fact, all 4 of the Ozzies have been sold at auctions the last 4 years at various times, but the last 2 in the last 2.5 years have been at that level and that's the price...no getting around it
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I think one of the primary reasons auction houses get much higher prices is the extended bidding periods. Think how many times someone loses an auction on EBAY and says I wish I would have bid higher.
This process enables people to see what someone else is willing to pay and then raise it.
First off, I read the net54 threads and got a kick out of them. They fail to realize the #1 rule of collecting anything, buy the best and wait. When the Wagner PSA 8 sold for $400K to Gretzky everybody thought it was absurd, now its up 7-fold as of last sale, and if Kendrick were to offer it up today based on the last price for the SGC 3 that just sold, my guess is that is probably now a $4-5M card.
The market is the ultimate arbiter of price, why is $20K for an Ozzie Smith Pop 4 ridiculous when the Hederson Pop 10 sold for $11K...it's supply and demand, there may be those who wish that wasnt the case, keep wishing...if you think you're going to get a '79 Ozzie after 2 of the 4 10s sell for $20K for half of that, you are likely to wrong unless there is some fool out there, which you can never rule out. But as far as I am concerned, that is now a $20K card, there is no argument about it. If you want it, that's what it will cost you, as has been proven twice over.
The other thing that cracks me up about the Net54 board is that these folks assume I am buying big cards without having my basic needs met, a nice house, plenty of financial security, etc. Seems some folks over there are a little bit green...
To me the idea that someone would pay $1.25B for a beat up Wagner card makes no sense, but I respect that there are those that care only about rarity and not about condition, I care about both. There is room for plenty of collecting styles and opinions in the hobby, people just need to realize that their view is not gospel and that each individual will have their own collecting nuances and passions.
Just my opnion...BTW the 54 Aaron 10 is a 1 of 2 not 1 of 1 but is still a fantastic card.
<< <i>The last 2 Ozzies have sold for 20K. There are a total of 4. It is the most rare Superstar HOF modern RC in Grade 10 in existence. But the mere fact that the last 2 of the 4 that exist sold for 20K says that it is a very realistic price tag. How do you define realistic? It may seem extraordinarily high to you, but facts are facts and this is now a 20K card.
In fact, all 4 of the Ozzies have been sold at auctions the last 4 years at various times, but the last 2 in the last 2.5 years have been at that level and that's the price...no getting around it >>
Ha - try selling it on eBay right now and see what it goes for.
Look, there are simply major differences in how the auction houses run their auctions and how eBay runs theirs. If you can't see that, especially considering the resulting VCP info, then you're missing my point.
Lemme ask you this, why does SCP hide the identities of it's bidders completely? You realize all one needs is a CC # to "bid" on their items also.
Bottomline, and IMO, SCP (and other auction houses that function similarly) are arenas that allow people to get taken advantage of, without any accountability, more than a place like eBay. >>
All I am saying is that the price is the price. There's no way around it. The SCP auction has set the bar a little higher in many cases, and in the case of the Ozzie, it's not like it was out of the blue. The last one sold for just about the same price. I've just seen you mention a few times how some of the cards were out of control and people overpaid, but with many of these there's no way to gauge. Like I said, only 4 Ozzies exist and the last 2 have sold for 20K so it'ssafe to say it is now a 20K card. Until one sells on eBay or anywhere else for 10K, then the price has been set and the SPR needs to adjust their price accordingly (and again it's better for business the higher they set the price so I don't know why they would set it lower than what reality is)
That being said, most of the cards post-1981 were definitely inflated and people paid too high because the evidence is right there on eBay every day with most of the 10's selling for much less every week
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Incidentally, quite interesting that you created a forum account here in line with the SCP auctions and now you defend them so vehemently. Anything you want to disclose? >>
Yes, I would like to disclose I am a 40 year old collector that has gotten back into the hobby after a long hiatus. I am a big Paul Molitor and Tony Gwynn fan and was actually introduced to the SCP Auction because of this forum. I have learned a lot about the brave new world of card collecting as it is now through you and many others on this forum. (Honest. And I have no idea what you mean or what you'd be insinuating?)
I wasn't really vehemently defending the SCP Auction as a whole, just the price the Ozzie went for specifically.
Regardless, it's really not worth getting into a back and forth about. I was just trying to make a point and I guess it came across wrong and ruffled your feathers which was far from my intention. No worries and moving on...
The Clockwork Angel Collection...brought to you by Bank of America, Wells Fargo, and Chase TheClockworkAngelCollection
I have to say that boxes of seventies stuff is getting up there. Five hundred a wax box, 1K a rack box......there are only a handful of "perfect" still out there. The prices don't seem to far fecthed and either way, it's great for the hobby when a collector with deep pockets decides to make a purchase or two begin to fight for a card at auction.
I followed the Dmitiri Young collection intently just as a lurker. I then decided I'd make a purchase though. I won his 1992 Upper Deck rookie card (lot #457 and 1/4) from his collection. While the value may not increase (or be worth what I paid), I thought I would be a bit of nostalgia to own.
You can give all the credit to EOMINT for bringing me back to the collecting world...seems like a common story of late, catching the bug again after a many year respite with baseball hungry kids helping feed it. Looking forward to my renewed hobby....and I can't wait to see the Aaron and Rose cards when they come!
As for crazy auction house bidding discussion out there, there was no funny business going on as I was bidding against Egoism at the end who also posted here. So those were real bids for the Aaron...in the end you can't force someone to bid what they aren't willing to....supply and demand...supply of 1 or 2 for these cards in particular for the real HR and hit kings...always will be demand. I think actually the Aaron is a bargain compared to Mantle with a higher pop...they both are baseball legends whose legacy will live on as long as the game is played.
For you high end guys that participated in the SCP auction, did the gigantic bid increments play a part in how long you stayed in the mix for certain cards?
Yes veryyyyyyyy nice cards!!! Still waiting for my cards, won the 83 Topps Strawberry, 84 Donruss Joe Carter, 88 Fleer Glossy Smoltz and an Al Lieter card
<< <i>When people spend money (especially lots of money) they like to think they did so intelligently. Unfortunately what this does is sometimes make it difficult for one to look at the situation objectively.
What the shill bidders do is get in the early bids first to get the base bids going to make the real later bidders think there is more interest than there really is. Then the real bidders simply spend more without knowing they've been had.
The system eBay has in place helps prevent this, the systems the other auctions houses have where all bids are shielded does the opposite.
Sure for some people this money doesn't matter, and sure there are auctions that are legit, but the problem here is there's really no way to tell and that's risky.
IMO, if one doesn't at least consider this possibility then they're a perfect target.
I'm all for this industry doing great, and the added exposure these auctions create can be a good thing, but IMO the way the bidding is structured is dangerous. >>
+1 It seems that auctions houses and ebay "consignors" fetch top dollar Wonder why
Received my SCP cards about a week ago, and my most entertaining anecdote pertains to the 76 Parrish I picked up. I didn't have an inordinate amount of time to spend perusing ancillary cards that evening, so after the fact I gave myself a pass for missing what appeared to be an egregious pd -- a red fish hook of sorts on the front of the card. I didn't know what the hell to expect, but I didn't lose a scintilla of sleep because it was a card I acquired just because. Well, when it arrived I immediately flipped it over to the front. Let's just say that the encapsulated culprit was something I never once considered.
A hair.
A curly one.
A black one.
Now, I don't know if Dmitri's pube adds to the intrinsic value of the card (or if such an assertion is remotely factual), but that's my story and I'm sticking to it. Thought you guys might enjoy a chuckle..........I know I did.
Very cool. I picked up the standard 1988 Donruss issue Robby Alomar that he had. It's now part of a few silver slugger sets that I've been assembling half heartedly.
<< <i>Let's just say that the encapsulated culprit was something I never once considered.
A hair.
A curly one.
A black one.
Now, I don't know if Dmitri's pube adds to the intrinsic value of the card (or if such an assertion is remotely factual), but that's my story and I'm sticking to it. Thought you guys might enjoy a chuckle..........I know I did. >>
Vlad there was a catalog just for his cards. I am keeping mine for now but hope you can get one. Every card had a picture. SCP will probably have them at shows or by request for free.
If that is indeed Dmitri's pube, maybe Ginter would be interested in putting it in next year's product. Interesting idea for a new subset. You should ask them to make an offer.
One of the guys who showed me the Ken Kendrick's collection and I got to talking and he said the Clemente PSA 10 was flipped to the under bidder for 900k.
<< <i>One of the guys who showed me the Ken Kendrick's collection and I got to talking and he said the Clemente PSA 10 was flipped to the under bidder for 900k.
Nice score! >>
The owner of the Clemente is Oleander who is on these boards. You can ask him directly.
I was recently offered about 2X what I paid for the Clemente 10 but am not interested in selling. The rumor is completely untrue and the guy has no idea what he is talking about. I won the auction and there was no flip to any underbidder.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>Here's a short article from the Detroit News regarding the auction. Oddly enough, the article makes a vague claim that Dmitri had $5M into his collection, which means he actually lost money on the sale. I find that hard to believe... >>
I would guess that he had to buy a few RC cards that he thought might get the "10" before actually getting it. There is a picture of him in SMR looking at a bunch of raw cards so I would think that he has a nice lot of NM-MT+ rookies. >>
There's no telling how many crack and resubmits where done, old flip submissions, etc. I find it hard to believe Dmitri lost money on those cards. I hope he did really good, more for charity.
"Live everyday, don't throw it away"
<< <i>pop report has 11 clemente rookies in psa 9.
assuming there are, indeed, 11 separately holdered psa 9s ...
think any of them, given the right circumstances, could become a psa 10?
and the same for the twenty-one (per pop report) aaron rookies in psa 9.
given what you know about the hobby/grading, can you definitely say no? >>
The Clemente 10 looked very solid for the grade; with so few 9s, it's tough to say if one of them can hang with that particular 10.
But I'd bet good money that at least one of the extant Aaron 9s is even better looking than the SCP-offered 10.
That's why I think putting so much stock in what some graders say is crazy-- when that stock takes the form of a huge premium being paid for the PSA 10 (and in those specific cases where the 10 has some discernible flaws AND there are stunning 9s at large).
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Here's a short article from the Detroit News regarding the auction. Oddly enough, the article makes a vague claim that Dmitri had $5M into his collection, which means he actually lost money on the sale. I find that hard to believe... >>
I would guess that he had to buy a few RC cards that he thought might get the "10" before actually getting it. There is a picture of him in SMR looking at a bunch of raw cards so I would think that he has a nice lot of NM-MT+ rookies. >>
There's no telling how many crack and resubmits where done, old flip submissions, etc. I find it hard to believe Dmitri lost money on those cards. I hope he did really good, more for charity. >>
Yes, that could be how they arrived at the $5M figure. It just sucks that we have more negative press about baseball cards (ie. a bad investment), when it may very well be a great sale for Dmitri.
I also don't get how they list prices for PSA 10's with Population of zero.
TheClockworkAngelCollection
<< <i>I also don't get how they list prices for PSA 10's with Population of zero. >>
So you will continue to submit to get that elusive 10. First you get the 10, then you get the money.
<< <i>It looks like PSA's SMR has been updated at least through 1979. It's interesting to see what they did with the PSA 10's as a result of the auction. Being that they only list prices of PSA 10's starting in 1977, there are only 3 years to look at so far. They bumped the Ozzie to 9,500, the Murray to 3,500 the Molitor to 3,700 and the Dawson to 975. Of course with the possible exception of Molitor, none of these cards went for anywhere near the guide. Just seems kind of random the way they come up with their prices. The last 2 PSA 10 Ozzie's have gone for 20K each so where is this 9,500 price about? I would think PSA would make it more accurate as the higher the number the better for business.
I also don't get how they list prices for PSA 10's with Population of zero. >>
Because, and correct me if this has been said before - SMR VALUES HAVE NO BASIS IN REALITY. NONE. ZIP. NADA.
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
----------------------
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<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>It looks like PSA's SMR has been updated at least through 1979. It's interesting to see what they did with the PSA 10's as a result of the auction. Being that they only list prices of PSA 10's starting in 1977, there are only 3 years to look at so far. They bumped the Ozzie to 9,500, the Murray to 3,500 the Molitor to 3,700 and the Dawson to 975. Of course with the possible exception of Molitor, none of these cards went for anywhere near the guide. Just seems kind of random the way they come up with their prices. The last 2 PSA 10 Ozzie's have gone for 20K each so where is this 9,500 price about? I would think PSA would make it more accurate as the higher the number the better for business.
I also don't get how they list prices for PSA 10's with Population of zero. >>
Because, and correct me if this has been said before - SMR VALUES HAVE NO BASIS IN REALITY. NONE. ZIP. NADA. >>
How about I correct you for being correct?
With all due respect to PSA and SMR ... the prices listed in SMR are far from accurate. They should partner with VCP and have it's data pulled directly into their SMR. And that's only a start ... you need to take where the card is sold and WHAT THE CARD ACTUALLY LOOKS LIKE into consideration.
And I'm sorry but the 20k price tag for the Ozzie is simply still not a realistic price tag IMO. I've said it before and I'll say it again until someone can prove otherwise, but these auction houses create an atmosphere for flat out unrealistic and sometimes highly suspect prices. Furthermore, when a VCP average comes from JUST these auction houses not even VCP can be trusted anymore IMO for these items.
I think in general, SMR is much more favorable for the buyer. I've had numerous buyers quote me SMR when asking to negotiate a price on a BIN item I have. I always will try and work with a buyer to find a mutually agreeable price, but I also will point out the past actual sales that have occurred on eBay. >>
Asking VCP or SMR to take into account WHERE a card was sold, or what it LOOKS LIKE in comparison to others is obviously an impossibility and a ridiculous suggestion.
Your assertion that the 20K pricetag on Ozzie is unrealistic is simply based on the fact that they were NOT sold on ebay? This shouldn't be surprising to anyone who has followed similar auctions in the past - many wealthy buyers bid on auction house items and they don't necessarily have the time to browse Ebay for deals everyday. This is one reason why auction houses will continue to get higher prices for their items.
And instead of requiring the auction houses to prove that they are not artificially inflating their bids (I assume you mean they are doing in-house shilling), why don't you provide some evidence that they are?
<< <i> This shouldn't be surprising to anyone who has followed similar auctions in the past - many wealthy buyers bid on auction house items and they don't necessarily have the time to browse Ebay for deals everyday. This is one reason why auction houses will continue to get higher prices for their items.
>>
I hadn't really thought of that before. It would tend to explain the "outlier" prices of many auctions. The big fish can't be bothered to hang out with the "bottom feeding $.99 auction" crowd.
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
----------------------
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The guys over at Net54, our pre-war specialty friends, have no grasp whatsoever on whats been going on in the 50s - 70's high grade market over the last year. They were speechless at some of the prices, but since those guys are all SCG collectors, and somewhat unfamiliar with PSA and PSA pop reports, none of the forums ever even mentioned or discussed how the Clemente, Rose, and Aaron were all pop 1's. They viewed the prices in a vacuum and just couldn't get their arms around it. Many even speculated that the buyers must have been financial investment firms and were people who weren't even collectors. LOL... The "anti-modern" and "anti-PSA" sentiment over there is breathtaking.
Always buying Bobby Cox inserts. PM me.
<< <i>Just noticed that Spence added the Young, Nellie Fox and Phil Niekro 10's to his Post War HOF set. >>
Spence is also in the All-time Braves set and needed the Niekro there as well. I figured he'd pick that one up.
Always buying Bobby Cox inserts. PM me.
<< <i>Just noticed that Spence added the Young, Nellie Fox and Phil Niekro 10's to his Post War HOF set. >>
Happen to have a link?
TheClockworkAngelCollection
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>It looks like PSA's SMR has been updated at least through 1979. It's interesting to see what they did with the PSA 10's as a result of the auction. Being that they only list prices of PSA 10's starting in 1977, there are only 3 years to look at so far. They bumped the Ozzie to 9,500, the Murray to 3,500 the Molitor to 3,700 and the Dawson to 975. Of course with the possible exception of Molitor, none of these cards went for anywhere near the guide. Just seems kind of random the way they come up with their prices. The last 2 PSA 10 Ozzie's have gone for 20K each so where is this 9,500 price about? I would think PSA would make it more accurate as the higher the number the better for business.
I also don't get how they list prices for PSA 10's with Population of zero. >>
Because, and correct me if this has been said before - SMR VALUES HAVE NO BASIS IN REALITY. NONE. ZIP. NADA. >>
And I'm sorry but the 20k price tag for the Ozzie is simply still not a realistic price tag IMO. I've said it before and I'll say it again until someone can prove otherwise, but these auction houses create an atmosphere for flat out unrealistic and sometimes highly suspect prices. Furthermore, when a VCP average comes from JUST these auction houses not even VCP can be trusted anymore IMO for these items.
. >>
The last 2 Ozzies have sold for 20K. There are a total of 4. It is the most rare Superstar HOF modern RC in Grade 10 in existence. But the mere fact that the last 2 of the 4 that exist sold for 20K says that it is a very realistic price tag. How do you define realistic? It may seem extraordinarily high to you, but facts are facts and this is now a 20K card.
In fact, all 4 of the Ozzies have been sold at auctions the last 4 years at various times, but the last 2 in the last 2.5 years have been at that level and that's the price...no getting around it
TheClockworkAngelCollection
This process enables people to see what someone else is willing to pay and then raise it.
The market is the ultimate arbiter of price, why is $20K for an Ozzie Smith Pop 4 ridiculous when the Hederson Pop 10 sold for $11K...it's supply and demand, there may be those who wish that wasnt the case, keep wishing...if you think you're going to get a '79 Ozzie after 2 of the 4 10s sell for $20K for half of that, you are likely to wrong unless there is some fool out there, which you can never rule out. But as far as I am concerned, that is now a $20K card, there is no argument about it. If you want it, that's what it will cost you, as has been proven twice over.
The other thing that cracks me up about the Net54 board is that these folks assume I am buying big cards without having my basic needs met, a nice house, plenty of financial security, etc. Seems some folks over there are a little bit green...
To me the idea that someone would pay $1.25B for a beat up Wagner card makes no sense, but I respect that there are those that care only about rarity and not about condition, I care about both. There is room for plenty of collecting styles and opinions in the hobby, people just need to realize that their view is not gospel and that each individual will have their own collecting nuances and passions.
Just my opnion...BTW the 54 Aaron 10 is a 1 of 2 not 1 of 1 but is still a fantastic card.
EOMINT
What you're saying sounds like gospel to me, but a foreign language to others.
<< <i>
<< <i>The last 2 Ozzies have sold for 20K. There are a total of 4. It is the most rare Superstar HOF modern RC in Grade 10 in existence. But the mere fact that the last 2 of the 4 that exist sold for 20K says that it is a very realistic price tag. How do you define realistic? It may seem extraordinarily high to you, but facts are facts and this is now a 20K card.
In fact, all 4 of the Ozzies have been sold at auctions the last 4 years at various times, but the last 2 in the last 2.5 years have been at that level and that's the price...no getting around it >>
Ha - try selling it on eBay right now and see what it goes for.
Look, there are simply major differences in how the auction houses run their auctions and how eBay runs theirs. If you can't see that, especially considering the resulting VCP info, then you're missing my point.
Lemme ask you this, why does SCP hide the identities of it's bidders completely? You realize all one needs is a CC # to "bid" on their items also.
Bottomline, and IMO, SCP (and other auction houses that function similarly) are arenas that allow people to get taken advantage of, without any accountability, more than a place like eBay. >>
All I am saying is that the price is the price. There's no way around it. The SCP auction has set the bar a little higher in many cases, and in the case of the Ozzie, it's not like it was out of the blue. The last one sold for just about the same price. I've just seen you mention a few times how some of the cards were out of control and people overpaid, but with many of these there's no way to gauge. Like I said, only 4 Ozzies exist and the last 2 have sold for 20K so it'ssafe to say it is now a 20K card. Until one sells on eBay or anywhere else for 10K, then the price has been set and the SPR needs to adjust their price accordingly (and again it's better for business the higher they set the price so I don't know why they would set it lower than what reality is)
That being said, most of the cards post-1981 were definitely inflated and people paid too high because the evidence is right there on eBay every day with most of the 10's selling for much less every week
TheClockworkAngelCollection
Always buying Bobby Cox inserts. PM me.
<< <i>
Incidentally, quite interesting that you created a forum account here in line with the SCP auctions and now you defend them so vehemently. Anything you want to disclose? >>
Yes, I would like to disclose I am a 40 year old collector that has gotten back into the hobby after a long hiatus. I am a big Paul Molitor and Tony Gwynn fan and was actually introduced to the SCP Auction because of this forum. I have learned a lot about the brave new world of card collecting as it is now through you and many others on this forum. (Honest. And I have no idea what you mean or what you'd be insinuating?)
I wasn't really vehemently defending the SCP Auction as a whole, just the price the Ozzie went for specifically.
Regardless, it's really not worth getting into a back and forth about. I was just trying to make a point and I guess it came across wrong and ruffled your feathers which was far from my intention. No worries and moving on...
TheClockworkAngelCollection
If a Ken Griffey Jr card sells for an average of $20.00, and
then all of a sudden it starts selling for $40.00, people are like no big deal.
But if a rare, high end card that was selling for 200,000.00 starts selling for 400,000.00, then
it's like a big deal to some.
Actually, it's not a big deal. 200k to 400k is like 20 to 40 bucks to others. It's just a number, and the price doesn't matter.
to put all their money into other assets.
1976 PSA 10 Rookies
Meanwhile, I thought the Tekulvie and Candelaria 10s went for relative bargains.
As for crazy auction house bidding discussion out there, there was no funny business going on as I was bidding against Egoism at the end who also posted here. So those were real bids for the Aaron...in the end you can't force someone to bid what they aren't willing to....supply and demand...supply of 1 or 2 for these cards in particular for the real HR and hit kings...always will be demand. I think actually the Aaron is a bargain compared to Mantle with a higher pop...they both are baseball legends whose legacy will live on as long as the game is played.
Collecting Tony Perez PSA and Rookie Baseball PSA
Jeff
<< <i>When people spend money (especially lots of money) they like to think they did so intelligently. Unfortunately what this does is sometimes make it difficult for one to look at the situation objectively.
What the shill bidders do is get in the early bids first to get the base bids going to make the real later bidders think there is more interest than there really is. Then the real bidders simply spend more without knowing they've been had.
The system eBay has in place helps prevent this, the systems the other auctions houses have where all bids are shielded does the opposite.
Sure for some people this money doesn't matter, and sure there are auctions that are legit, but the problem here is there's really no way to tell and that's risky.
IMO, if one doesn't at least consider this possibility then they're a perfect target.
I'm all for this industry doing great, and the added exposure these auctions create can be a good thing, but IMO the way the bidding is structured is dangerous. >>
+1 It seems that auctions houses and ebay "consignors" fetch top dollar
A hair.
A curly one.
A black one.
Now, I don't know if Dmitri's pube adds to the intrinsic value of the card (or if such an assertion is remotely factual), but that's my story and I'm sticking to it. Thought you guys might enjoy a chuckle..........I know I did.
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
- uncut
Positive Transactions - tennesseebanker, Ahmanfan, Donruss, Colebear, CDsNuts, rbdjr1, Downtown1974, yankeeno7, drewsef, mnolan, mrbud60, msassin, RipublicaninMass, AkbarClone, rustywilly, lsutigers1973, julen23 and nam812, plus many others...
<< <i>overpaid for it, but what they heck...
Very cool. I picked up the standard 1988 Donruss issue Robby Alomar that he had. It's now part of a few silver slugger sets that I've been assembling half heartedly.
Justin
Retired - Eddie Mathews Master Registry Set (96.36%) Rank 1
<< <i>Let's just say that the encapsulated culprit was something I never once considered.
A hair.
A curly one.
A black one.
Now, I don't know if Dmitri's pube adds to the intrinsic value of the card (or if such an assertion is remotely factual), but that's my story and I'm sticking to it. Thought you guys might enjoy a chuckle..........I know I did. >>
LOL...that's pretty gross.
Justin
Retired - Eddie Mathews Master Registry Set (96.36%) Rank 1
Was every card listed with a picture?
If yes and yes, does anyone have one to trade or sell?
I ended up buying his Vladimir Guerrero 1995 Bowman's Best #B2 PSA 10 Rookie. I would like the catalog to go with it.
Nice score!
<< <i>One of the guys who showed me the Ken Kendrick's collection and I got to talking and he said the Clemente PSA 10 was flipped to the under bidder for 900k.
Nice score! >>
The owner of the Clemente is Oleander who is on these boards. You can ask him directly.
Perhaps he can chime in.
<< <i>The underbidder could have just bid on it the first time it came around. >>
He did. He was the underbidder.
<< <i>He did. He was the underbidder. >>
Bid to win friend.....bid to win.
EOMINT