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3rd 100,000 mintage coin in the 25th Anniversary set

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    AkbeezAkbeez Posts: 2,689 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Who can answer that question, and have they been asked?
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    AkbeezAkbeez Posts: 2,689 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Some more good pics posted on another thread.

    Interest in this possible variety was mentioned on the Mint Blog today too.
    Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
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    pitbosspitboss Posts: 8,643 ✭✭✭

    What really gets me about these dimples is I cant even see them and the formative years coins you could see with the naked eye on some of them and everyone was poo pooing them.
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    RadioContestKingRadioContestKing Posts: 3,005 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Really doubt our host will change anything on those, some of you have to remember when the light finish grand canyon was first found, We had PROOF there was 3 different finishes, the first one discovered on this board had NO VP, My buddies had a light finish, after my coin was refused twice I finally got a note telling me that mine did not meet THERE criteria of a light finish, I pleaded with certain folks and showed them the proof of the 3 different finishes, after a few sceaming matches and almost the golden boot I knew it was a losing battle, so when I finally got the coin back had to submit across the street where it did find its home in a LIGHT FINISH holder. Turns out the ones pcgs were grading had the NO vb blast and they were put into a light finish holder. So I really doubt they will ever change anything with this coin. Enjoy image Pitboss will just keep hanging on to the pennies sooner or later there going to take off...............image
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    The market seems to be recognizing the bullion pieces as something special

    Text

    There is another MS70 active auction selling for quite a bit as well
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    leothelyonleothelyon Posts: 8,367 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Where were all you people when I debunked all the certified circulating coins of 2005 to 2010? This is bullion for christsakes! image
    Here's the US Mint's definition for Uncirculated;
    Uncirculated coins are struck like circulating coins, but with higher force, newer dies, special cleaning after stamping, and Mylar® packaging. Uncirculated coins may vary to some degree because of blemishes, toning, or slight imperfections

    You people are not seeing anything phenomenal with this bullion coin. It's just a higher degree of manufacturing of a mint product.

    Ok, you can all go back to whatever it is you're promoting. image

    The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

    My Jefferson Nickel Collection

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    << <i>You people are not seeing anything phenomenal with this bullion coin. It's just a higher degree of manufacturing of a mint product. >>



    I don't think anyone on this thread have called this a "phenomenal" event. They are discussing a possible variant of a Mint issued collectable .... and obviously it is not a circulating product
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    AkbeezAkbeez Posts: 2,689 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This shouldn't be rocket science. Either the coin was stuck on a burnished blank or not. I couldn't find a quick definition of what a "burnished blank" is from the Mint website, but I recall reading somewhere they are somehow chemically or physically treated to produce a grainy texture. Conventional bullion blanks are not, and should have a more glossy surface.

    If the Mint did indeed use burnished blanks for these coins, and there is a marker for them unique to the 25th sets, then we have an attributable variety.

    Seems like someone with a microscope should be able to tell the difference.
    Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
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    Based on my experience with literally hundreds of 20 anniversary sets let me say the non W, non S, uncirculated coin (S) with a 25th anniversary label may carry a significant premium over regular uncirculated (bullion) ASEs especially in MS70 grade.

    I would estimate 25-35% of 25th sets have been opened leaving only 65,000-75,000 of these uncirculated (S) coins eligible for 25th labels as compared to the 100,000 reverse proof and S minted coins.

    This is a permanent mis-match that will suppost prices for the 25th labeled standard proof, W and non W (S) bullion coins.

    I don't know what recent PCGS population numbers look like but in the past on a percentage basis it was harder to score a MS70 than a PR70DCAM, so of those 65-75K coins....PR-W-(S).........I expect among the 3 coins...........W and (S) will be rarer in MS70 than the standard proof coin is in PR70DCAM.

    Bottom line ...............when you look at maximum number of potential "perfect" 5 coin sets with 25th anniversary labels I believe the uncirculated W and (S) will prove to be the choke point coins.
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    << <i>Bottom line ...............when you look at maximum number of potential "perfect" 5 coin sets with 25th anniversary labels I believe the uncirculated W and (S) will prove to be the choke point coins. >>



    I've read a lot of grading results across different threads on different boardsand by far and away it seems the toughest 70 coin is the standard bullion. The 'burnished' W coin seems to be receiving quite a few 70's, but not as many as the RV proof. Both of my memberships recently expired, but if someone could post current populations that would be fantastic.
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    drei3reedrei3ree Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭✭
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    AkbeezAkbeez Posts: 2,689 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Bottom line ...............when you look at maximum number of potential "perfect" 5 coin sets with 25th anniversary labels I believe the uncirculated W and (S) will prove to be the choke point coins. >>



    Makes sense -- except the recent pops reflect a very small (practically negligible) difference between all 5 coins. I would have thought there would be a significant difference in numbers between the 2 uniques vs the 3 others. In time, I'm sure the gap will increase.
    Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
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    << <i>POPS >>



    Thanks drei3ree image
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    Current pops are almost all sealed 5 coin sets so differences are not yet obvious.

    Remember the 100,000 bullion S and Reverse proof coins will always be eligible for 25th labels.

    For the other 3 they will get 25th labels only if UN-OPENED!!

    If you have an Opened set the only reason to send the two key reverse proof and bullion S coins in now is to get FS label.

    I expect some with opened sets are holding off submitting these 2 key coins til last moment to see how prices settle out and in particular if FS label premiums justify extra expense.

    If you don't care about FS labels and you have an opened set there is no rush to submit the Reverse proof and S bullion.

    I am surprised the non proof coins are scoring so well inregard to MS69 vs MS70.

    Either mint has gotten much better or standards have loosened.

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    For those with access what are population numbers for Non 25th anniversary bullion ASEs??

    What is ratio of MS69-MS70 coins??
    .................................................................
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    fiveNdimefiveNdime Posts: 1,088 ✭✭


    << <i>For those with access what are population numbers for Non 25th anniversary bullion ASEs?? >>

    *****OFFICIAL POP REPORT*****
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    RichRRichR Posts: 3,847 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Don't look now, but the Big 25th Anniversary coin thread seems to have disappeared!
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    coolestcoolest Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭
    Are all three unc. coins in the set identical except for the mint mark or lack of mint mark?
    Thanks!
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    AkbeezAkbeez Posts: 2,689 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That's the question -- are they the same finish?

    My W & S are actually more lustrous than my bullion. The latter is very frosty/satiny.
    Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
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    AkbeezAkbeez Posts: 2,689 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ttt
    Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
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    IrishMikeyIrishMikey Posts: 1,561 ✭✭✭
    The "bullion" version without mintmark has a different finish than the other two Uncirculated pieces. By
    the way, I just heard that one of the major grading services is labeling the no mintmark piece as 2011-(S)
    due to the latest statements by the Mint. Do you think the other services will follow suit?
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    Which company??
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    illini420illini420 Posts: 11,466 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Which company?? >>



    Doesn't appear to be PCGS....


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    19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,475 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The "bullion" version without mintmark has a different finish than the other two Uncirculated pieces. By
    the way, I just heard that one of the major grading services is labeling the no mintmark piece as 2011-(S)
    due to the latest statements by the Mint. Do you think the other services will follow suit? >>

    IMO, since they're the one's which started this (S) business on slabs, they should.
    They also ought to get a number for Tom Jurkowsky or whomever else might be the official spokesperson for the US Mint.
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
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    pitbosspitboss Posts: 8,643 ✭✭✭
    I guess it's Mr. Nobody!
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    IrishMikeyIrishMikey Posts: 1,561 ✭✭✭
    Sorry, guys -- been at work the whole day. I heard that the grading service in
    Colorado is labeling them with the (S). Still haven't heard of a definitive diagnostic
    for the no mintmark silver eagle in the set, so the price should not change
    significantly. Now if someone found a way to tell.... $$$$
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    pitbosspitboss Posts: 8,643 ✭✭✭

    So basically what you are saying is that Anacs is the one that is grading these coins with an (S) instead of just as a bullion coin. Is that correct

    and how do you know they are doing that?
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    So basically what you are saying is that Anacs is the one that is grading these coins with an (S) instead of just as a bullion coin. Is that correct

    Isn't ICG in Colorado?
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    AkbeezAkbeez Posts: 2,689 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Still haven't heard of a definitive diagnostic
    for the no mintmark silver eagle in the set, so the price should not change
    significantly. Now if someone found a way to tell.... $$$$ >>



    Did the dimpled tailfeather variant get debunked?

    I just got some certified bullions from non-25th sets and compared them to the bullions I got in my sets and the dimple is absent on the non-25th coins. The dimple IS on every 25th set coin I have.

    Under a 10x loupe the two coin's finish and strike look very different. I also noticed there is a dot-like dimple on tailfeather #4 (L to R) on the 25th and not obvious on the std. I have not had time to really go over them, but would need better optics to really evaluate. Where's the experts?
    Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
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    fiveNdimefiveNdime Posts: 1,088 ✭✭


    << <i>I just got some certified bullions from non-25th sets and compared them to the bullions I got in my sets and the dimple is absent on the non-25th coins. >>


    do you have a 2011 (S) "struck @ SF" to compare?


    the only other coin i saw a similar dimple was my 2006P rev proof.

    the 2011 S in the 25th anniv. set has it, but less prominent.
    the others do not have it at all.
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    AkbeezAkbeez Posts: 2,689 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I just got some certified bullions from non-25th sets and compared them to the bullions I got in my sets and the dimple is absent on the non-25th coins. >>


    do you have a 2011 (S) "struck @ SF" to compare? >>



    No, I don't have any (S)'s but they were photographically compared earlier in this thread and found to be absent the dimple.
    Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
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    illini420illini420 Posts: 11,466 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well the buyers out there sure think the bullion non-mintmarked coin is special. I listed 4 sets on eBay yesterday afternoon, all as singles and of the 20 coins listed, the first 4 coins to sell were my bullion coins... 2 in 69 and 2 in 68 (non-FS labels). Of course, maybe I sold them too cheap??? They each went for $75.

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    OPAOPA Posts: 17,104 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Well the buyers out there sure think the bullion non-mintmarked coin is special. I listed 4 sets on eBay yesterday afternoon, all as singles and of the 20 coins listed, the first 4 coins to sell were my bullion coins... 2 in 69 and 2 in 68 (non-FS labels). Of course, maybe I sold them too cheap??? They each went for $75. >>



    recent completed FS NM Eagle eagle..nm

    More completed ebay

    Lowest priced oneebay

    You be the judge.
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
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    << <i>Well the buyers out there sure think the bullion non-mintmarked coin is special. I listed 4 sets on eBay yesterday afternoon, all as singles and of the 20 coins listed, the first 4 coins to sell were my bullion coins... 2 in 69 and 2 in 68 (non-FS labels). Of course, maybe I sold them too cheap??? They each went for $75. >>



    $75 is a fantastic price for the MS69 and a good price for the 68 bullion coin. If you have any more 69's (with or without the FS designation) I will buy them all day long at that price so please send me a PM image.
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    illini420illini420 Posts: 11,466 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Well the buyers out there sure think the bullion non-mintmarked coin is special. I listed 4 sets on eBay yesterday afternoon, all as singles and of the 20 coins listed, the first 4 coins to sell were my bullion coins... 2 in 69 and 2 in 68 (non-FS labels). Of course, maybe I sold them too cheap??? They each went for $75. >>



    $75 is a fantastic price for the MS69 and a good price for the 68 bullion coin. If you have any more 69's (with or without the FS designation) I will buy them all day long at that price so please send me a PM image. >>




    All sold out for now... also, I only took $75 for the 69s because the same buyer was also offering $75 on my 68s. I could have just hit accept on the 68s and declined the offer on the 69s, but I'd rather sell all to one buyer and save a couple of bucks on the combined shipping. I'm happy with the overall price on the 4 coins. Of course, if PCGS later changes their stance on how to certify these bullion coins, my feelings may change image
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    IrishMikeyIrishMikey Posts: 1,561 ✭✭✭


    << <i>So basically what you are saying is that Anacs is the one that is grading these coins with an (S) instead of just as a bullion coin. Is that correct

    Isn't ICG in Colorado? >>


    Yes, ANACS is listing them on the label as "2011-(S)". ICG is in Tampa, Florida now.
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    pitbosspitboss Posts: 8,643 ✭✭✭
    This thread got awfully quiet.
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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,571 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    << <i>

    << <i>Well the buyers out there sure think the bullion non-mintmarked coin is special. I listed 4 sets on eBay yesterday afternoon, all as singles and of the 20 coins listed, the first 4 coins to sell were my bullion coins... 2 in 69 and 2 in 68 (non-FS labels). Of course, maybe I sold them too cheap??? They each went for $75. >>



    recent completed FS NM Eagle eagle..nm

    More completed ebay

    Lowest priced oneebay

    You be the judge. >>



    I saw a bullion ngc 70 go for $499. Wow. This is a BIN. Buyer had to be confused?

    Link
    Currently working with nurmaler. Older transactions....circa 2011 BST transactions Gecko109, Segoja, lpinion, Agblox, oldgumballmachineswanted,pragmaticgoat, CharlieC, onlyroosies, timrutnat, ShinyThingsInPM under login lightcycler
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    pitbosspitboss Posts: 8,643 ✭✭✭
    Some buyers seem to think these coins are going to be valuable.

    If Anacs is in fact listing these coins with an (S) are they taking the lead in determining value or is this just a flash in the pan?

    I don't have a horse in the race as I have sold all of mine, I am just curious.



    Edited for spelling, my fingers were at work before brain was engaged.
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    They ARE special. the mint has certified that they ARE "S" coins.
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    drei3reedrei3ree Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I saw a bullion ngc 70 go for $499. Wow. This is a BIN. Buyer had to be confused?

    Link >>



    I think it can be somewhat confusing. You have the (S) and S and the "Set" and the "25th (Not Set)" etc.
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    CoinMeisterCoinMeister Posts: 642 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I saw a bullion ngc 70 go for $499. Wow. This is a BIN. Buyer had to be confused?

    Link >>



    I think it can be somewhat confusing. You have the (S) and S and the "Set" and the "25th (Not Set)" etc. >>



    Somewhat? I think many novice collectors will be suffering from label confusion image
    "What we are never changes, but who we are ... never stops changing."
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    pitbosspitboss Posts: 8,643 ✭✭✭

    Thats a lot of (S)s in one set.
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    53BKid53BKid Posts: 2,164 ✭✭✭
    Pretty disappointing they would have minted these in SF without a mint mark. Anyone know when the last instance was of not using a mint mark for SF/D/W?

    HAPPY COLLECTING!!!
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    pitbosspitboss Posts: 8,643 ✭✭✭
    What is going to happen with these coins?

    Are they going to go crazy in price?

    Should we start buying them while the price is still reasonable?
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    coinkid855coinkid855 Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭


    << <i>What is going to happen with these coins?

    Are they going to go crazy in price?

    Should we start buying them while the price is still reasonable? >>



    I'm not sure about going CRAZY, but I do think they're going to hit bottom pretty soon.


    -Paul
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    AkbeezAkbeez Posts: 2,689 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I really don't care about where they were minted -- it's whether the blanks were burnished or not.
    Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
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    OPAOPA Posts: 17,104 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Pretty disappointing they would have minted these in SF without a mint mark. Anyone know when the last instance was of not using a mint mark for SF/D/W? >>



    2011 & before... For all the bullion ASE coins image
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
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    mbogomanmbogoman Posts: 5,129 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I really don't care about where they were minted -- it's whether the blanks were burnished or not. >>



    Exactly. That is my feeling on these, too. People are getting distracted by the minutiae of (S) or not on the label, when the real question is whether or not these were struck on burnished blanks. Inquiring minds would like to know. I'm holding some raw leftovers just waiting for an official declaration by someone with authority (mint? TPG?)

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