<< <i> I for one appreciate your enthusiasm but I don't think it's enough to warrant a die variety or some new discovery like the '08 rev. '07 or like the cheerios dollar but it is interesting to see if this goes anywhere. Thanks for posting. >>
The variety, If I understand correctly is the burnished finish (and being double struck?)
I don't think the feather dent is a die variety either. I do however think it may be a marker for the real variety, which is...a burnished finish on the 25th Anniversary so-called "Bullion" coin versus a no-burnished finish on real bullion coins pulled from a monster box.
Someone was saying that...hypothetically, if the so-called "Bullion" 25th Anniversary coin was recognized as a 100,000 limited mintage variety (valuable), then it could be switched out with a real bullion coin, and secondary market buyers would be none-the-wiser. On the other hand, if the feather dent turned out to be a reliable marker, then it could prove to be a second way to distinguish original 25th Anniversary set so-called Bullion coins from all others.
Let me tell you, this thread reads like a murder-mystery - edge of the seat kind of stuff! This is getting better all the time. Great investigative work
Hi, Just kidding about the feather dent, Let go with the other suggestion of feather dimple. It sounds so much more "coin like"............just to keep the purists happy
I've just checked all of mine. When you look at the reverse of each set (ignoring the mintmark) you can easily pick out that feather dimple every time.
Has anyone tried to determine where this reverse die came from? IE is it from a previous year? Is this error not on this die alone, could it be from the hub?
I am looking at all of my older ASE's now...
Because to Err is Human. I specialize in Errors, Minting, Counterfeit Detection & Grading. Computer-aided grading, counterfeit detection, recognition and imaging.
Put a 10x loupe to my 2011 Bullion example and there is an indent at the tip of the center tail feather. So from what I've read this could be a 100k coin, or the 3rd key in the set?
Ok, someone needs to start a thread with order numbers on open sets to find out when the "feather Dimple" was packaged and sold............we can't be chasing a variety if we don't know when it was sold........... edited to add.........."feather dimple satin finish"
<< <i>I don't think the feather dent is a die variety either. I do however think it may be a marker for the real variety, which is...a burnished finish on the 25th Anniversary so-called "Bullion" coin versus a no-burnished finish on real bullion coins pulled from a monster box.
Someone was saying that...hypothetically, if the so-called "Bullion" 25th Anniversary coin was recognized as a 100,000 limited mintage variety (valuable), then it could be switched out with a real bullion coin, and secondary market buyers would be none-the-wiser. On the other hand, if the feather dent turned out to be a reliable marker, then it could prove to be a second way to distinguish original 25th Anniversary set so-called Bullion coins from all others. >>
According to Tom Jurkowsky, if you read what he says, the bullion coin is already a unique offering. Whether or not each and every one is fully identifiable by that mark is another story though.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< if the feather dent turned out to be a reliable marker, then it could prove to be a second way to distinguish original 25th Anniversary set so-called Bullion coins from all others. >>
Only if the "feather dent" dies were not also used to strike ordinary bullion coins.
Does the "feather dent" appear on any other coins in the set?
<< <i>I have seen a number of different "looks" on bullion ASEs over the years and have never been able to attribute it to anything more than "random." >>
From what I heard here after the 08 rev 07 releases, with respect to the silver eagles, the dies start out causing the non-proof blanks to get a satin finish when struck. As the die wears, the strike gives the devices a proof-like finish.
If true, then the brilliant-looking monster-box SF ASE's are shiny because the bullion dies were workhorses.
So perhaps the 25th Anniv. Set, unmarked bullion Eagles are satiny because of early strikes on dies that were reserved to make coins for the set?
How about LostSisler's assertion that the ones for the set are double-struck, and have a sharper edge?
Where does the information that the no-mintmark was double-struck for the set? CoinWorld, Mint spokesperson Jurkowsky?
And so the standard bullion for the set turns out to be not standard?
I'm thinking of picking up a few 25th bullion in slabs. It seems like all 2011 NGC's are "25th Anniv" -- can someone tell me if they MUST be from sealed mint boxes to get that label, or is it a generic label for the year? Their website is confusing.
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
<< <i>I'm thinking of picking up a few 25th bullion in slabs. It seems like all 2011 NGC's are "25th Anniv" -- can someone tell me if they MUST be from sealed mint boxes to get that label, or is it a generic label for the year? Their website is confusing. >>
They only have to come from sealed boxes for the (S) designation (obviously from SF boxes)....25th Annie is a label available for any 2011 ASE (not 25th Annie Set)
Has anyone checked to see if any of the other coins in the set has the "dimple" or is the bullion coin the only one? Also the other two coins in the set that are available individually, the proof and the W coin, were those specially struck for the set or pulled from existing inventories, if not, maybe someone should start looking for identifiers on those coins as well?
<< <i>I want to look sooooo bad but my box is sealed....lol
driving me nuts. >>
Set them FREE ! ! !
HH
Need the following OBW rolls to complete my 46-64 Roosevelt roll set: 1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S. Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
<< <i>I want to look sooooo bad but my box is sealed....lol
driving me nuts. >>
I have always opened every roll and or mint box that I have ever got.
This time, My 5 sets are still sealed and I have not made a up my mind on what to do.
All the time the price keeps creeping upward. >>
The only other time I can recall keeping a box sealed was for the 20th anniversary coins. At that time, I sent them in to our host almost immediately. This round, I too can't make up my mind. Just when I think I have made up my mind, the sealed boxes go up more the next morning. Every one keeps saying these are going for 'MOON MONEY'. Eventually some where, some time, we may hear "the Eagle has landed".
Now ....what to do?
edited for grammar..too quick on the click
"What we are never changes, but who we are ... never stops changing."
<< <i>I'm thinking of picking up a few 25th bullion in slabs. It seems like all 2011 NGC's are "25th Anniv" -- can someone tell me if they MUST be from sealed mint boxes to get that label, or is it a generic label for the year? Their website is confusing. >>
Just a quick response. The TPG's started issuing 25th Anniversary label early in the year BEFORE the US Mint made the announcement of theis set on August 19th.
As such, the key to getting the Set coin is that the slab label will specifically state 25th Anniversary SET. This means that the coins were pulled from a sealed US Mint shipping box and were in fact a part of the Set.
Will there be confusion? Absolutely.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>I'm thinking of picking up a few 25th bullion in slabs. It seems like all 2011 NGC's are "25th Anniv" -- can someone tell me if they MUST be from sealed mint boxes to get that label, or is it a generic label for the year? Their website is confusing. >>
They only have to come from sealed boxes for the (S) designation (obviously from SF boxes)....25th Annie is a label available for any 2011 ASE (not 25th Annie Set) >>
Thanks Boucharda, this is contrary to PCGS policy right? Their 25th label is only for sealed 25th sets? I want only the true 25th set coins -- with the dimple!
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
<< <i>The PCGS 25th Annie label has been around for some time....It will be very confusing when they all are co-mingled with the 25th Annie SET labels....
<< <i><< if the feather dent turned out to be a reliable marker, then it could prove to be a second way to distinguish original 25th Anniversary set so-called Bullion coins from all others. >>
Only if the "feather dent" dies were not also used to strike ordinary bullion coins.
Does the "feather dent" appear on any other coins in the set? >>
In my sets at least, the Feather Dent is unique to these coins. I have searched various older ASE's that I have and haven't found a match yet.
I would suggest that everyone else here do the same. Even if you haven't opened your sets, please look at your old ASE's to try to find a match and, if you have opened your set, take the time to see if you have one of these without a Feather Dimple.
I want to assert again that these are struck twice. Any of you with the plain bullion issue can easily compare and many of you know, from previous experience, how to tell a proof strike from a business strike.
I have minted myself and can tell you from experience that, no matter the shape of the planchet, that edge will not extrude and become sharp on the first punch, ever (unless striking gold). You may argue that "they could just increase the pressure", however, you would be wrong as this would lead to decreased die life and unsatisfactory surfaces.
Also, at least for the bead-blasted issues in this set, the dies (when properly cared for) could easily last for 100,000 strikes. You may need to bead-blast the dies four or five times but the die could have certainly survived the entire mintage.
On another note (this will cause a firestorm) has anyone bothered to check the collar die's for a match between these coins? What if the collars for this coin match the San Francisco or West Point Issue? Collars are more expensive to make than coin dies and they have a longer life expectancy, making it very likely that they were reused whenever possible for these coins.
Because to Err is Human. I specialize in Errors, Minting, Counterfeit Detection & Grading. Computer-aided grading, counterfeit detection, recognition and imaging.
the dimple should be on the bullion coin only. the bullion coin dont have a "S" on it and it dont have a "W" on it. its not the reverse proof,nor the proof....so that only leaves one coin to look for it on.
Correction...if the theory holds true, you will find the feather dent on two coins in the 25th Anniversary set - the burnished "S" mint coin and the burnished no-mint-mark (but made in San Francisco) so-called "Bullion" coin...see photos below.
However, you will not find the feather dent on regular common bullion 2011 ASE's minted in San Francisco, as shown here:
These are two different coins.. one was struck twice. I thought two strikes was supposed to make the coin more detailed. Im not sure if its the photos or what but the monster box coin looks more detailed. The dimples are not the only difference note arrow feathers and the other tail feathers.
Comments
<< <i> I for one appreciate your enthusiasm but I don't think it's enough to warrant a die variety or some new discovery like the '08 rev. '07 or like the cheerios dollar but it is interesting to see if this goes anywhere. Thanks for posting. >>
The variety, If I understand correctly is the burnished finish (and being double struck?)
This is JUST a DIE Marker as I see it.
<< <i>Would the mint create a new master die just for these, or is it a dent in the working die? >>
It would have to be a hump in the die to make an incused mark but then, I'm not really buying that its anything special.
The name is LEE!
Someone was saying that...hypothetically, if the so-called "Bullion" 25th Anniversary coin was recognized as a 100,000 limited mintage variety (valuable), then it could be switched out with a real bullion coin, and secondary market buyers would be none-the-wiser. On the other hand, if the feather dent turned out to be a reliable marker, then it could prove to be a second way to distinguish original 25th Anniversary set so-called Bullion coins from all others.
Ed Davidson
Poop Tail..."-)
But the finish is interesting...
Currently Listed: Nothing
Take Care, Dave
RP: $400-ish
S: $300-ish
Burnished Bullion (BB?): $300-ish
Proof: $100-ish
Bullion: $40-ish
Packaging: $50-$100?
Total current value Opened: $1,190-$1,240
+$200 for sealed (arguable): $1,390-$1,440
Sealed box o' 5: $6,950-$7,200
Do I have that right about right?
(Sheesh...the "cool" realization thing didn't last long, did it...)
Has anyone tried to determine where this reverse die came from? IE is it from a previous year? Is this error not on this die alone, could it be from the hub?
I am looking at all of my older ASE's now...
I specialize in Errors, Minting, Counterfeit Detection & Grading.
Computer-aided grading, counterfeit detection, recognition and imaging.
So from what I've read this could be a 100k coin, or the 3rd key in the set?
<< <i> I'm not really buying that its anything special. >>
is it sufficient enough to be an identifier of the SF mint?
I love it........its turning into a detective story........a who done it
I hope it has a great ending
.
CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
.
Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
.
More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
<< <i>I don't think the feather dent is a die variety either. I do however think it may be a marker for the real variety, which is...a burnished finish on the 25th Anniversary so-called "Bullion" coin versus a no-burnished finish on real bullion coins pulled from a monster box.
Someone was saying that...hypothetically, if the so-called "Bullion" 25th Anniversary coin was recognized as a 100,000 limited mintage variety (valuable), then it could be switched out with a real bullion coin, and secondary market buyers would be none-the-wiser. On the other hand, if the feather dent turned out to be a reliable marker, then it could prove to be a second way to distinguish original 25th Anniversary set so-called Bullion coins from all others. >>
According to Tom Jurkowsky, if you read what he says, the bullion coin is already a unique offering. Whether or not each and every one is fully identifiable by that mark is another story though.
The name is LEE!
Only if the "feather dent" dies were not also used to strike ordinary bullion coins.
Does the "feather dent" appear on any other coins in the set?
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Dang. The anniv. set of 5 is not the complete set of lookers for 2011.
Gonna' have to get one of those bright SF's (or no-mintmark WestPoint's if they come that way, too).
<< <i>I have seen a number of different "looks" on bullion ASEs over the years and have never been able to attribute it to anything more than "random." >>
From what I heard here after the 08 rev 07 releases, with respect to the silver eagles, the dies start out causing the non-proof blanks to get a satin finish when struck. As the die wears, the strike gives the devices a proof-like finish.
If true, then the brilliant-looking monster-box SF ASE's are shiny because the bullion dies were workhorses.
So perhaps the 25th Anniv. Set, unmarked bullion Eagles are satiny because of early strikes on dies that were reserved to make coins for the set?
How about LostSisler's assertion that the ones for the set are double-struck, and have a sharper edge?
Where does the information that the no-mintmark was double-struck for the set? CoinWorld, Mint spokesperson Jurkowsky?
And so the standard bullion for the set turns out to be not standard?
<< <i>I'm thinking of picking up a few 25th bullion in slabs. It seems like all 2011 NGC's are "25th Anniv" -- can someone tell me if they MUST be from sealed mint boxes to get that label, or is it a generic label for the year? Their website is confusing. >>
They only have to come from sealed boxes for the (S) designation (obviously from SF boxes)....25th Annie is a label available for any 2011 ASE (not 25th Annie Set)
driving me nuts.
<< <i>I want to look sooooo bad but my box is sealed....lol
driving me nuts. >>
Set them FREE ! ! !
HH
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
<< <i>I want to look sooooo bad but my box is sealed....lol
driving me nuts. >>
It helps if you ship them out to be graded the same day you receive them.....no temptations
<< <i>I want to look sooooo bad but my box is sealed....lol
driving me nuts. >>
I have always opened every roll and or mint box that I have ever got.
This time, My 5 sets are still sealed and I have not made a up my mind on what to do.
All the time the price keeps creeping upward.
<< <i>I want to look sooooo bad but my box is sealed....lol
driving me nuts. >>
The sets are very nice. Your cheating yourself by never seeing on of these sets, glistening in the blue box.
Loves me some shiny!
<< <i>
<< <i>I want to look sooooo bad but my box is sealed....lol
driving me nuts. >>
I have always opened every roll and or mint box that I have ever got.
This time, My 5 sets are still sealed and I have not made a up my mind on what to do.
All the time the price keeps creeping upward. >>
The only other time I can recall keeping a box sealed was for the 20th anniversary coins. At that time, I sent them in to our host almost immediately. This round, I too can't make up my mind. Just when I think I have made up my mind, the sealed boxes go up more the next morning. Every one keeps saying these are going for 'MOON MONEY'. Eventually some where, some time, we may hear "the Eagle has landed".
Now ....what to do?
edited for grammar..too quick on the click
actually i would like to sell one set to pay grading and make some back on what i spent.
<< <i>i am keeping it sealed because i want ALL the coins inside to be in a 25th anniversary holder. >>
same here.
<< <i>I'm thinking of picking up a few 25th bullion in slabs. It seems like all 2011 NGC's are "25th Anniv" -- can someone tell me if they MUST be from sealed mint boxes to get that label, or is it a generic label for the year? Their website is confusing. >>
Just a quick response. The TPG's started issuing 25th Anniversary label early in the year BEFORE the US Mint made the announcement of theis set on August 19th.
As such, the key to getting the Set coin is that the slab label will specifically state 25th Anniversary SET. This means that the coins were pulled from a sealed US Mint shipping box and were in fact a part of the Set.
Will there be confusion? Absolutely.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm thinking of picking up a few 25th bullion in slabs. It seems like all 2011 NGC's are "25th Anniv" -- can someone tell me if they MUST be from sealed mint boxes to get that label, or is it a generic label for the year? Their website is confusing. >>
They only have to come from sealed boxes for the (S) designation (obviously from SF boxes)....25th Annie is a label available for any 2011 ASE (not 25th Annie Set) >>
Thanks Boucharda, this is contrary to PCGS policy right? Their 25th label is only for sealed 25th sets? I want only the true 25th set coins -- with the dimple!
25th PF
Bullion
Another Bullion
2010 even more confusing
<< <i>Will there be confusion? Absolutely. >>
the PCGS labels do have a different enough look to reduce the confusion between the SET and non set coins.
<< <i>The PCGS 25th Annie label has been around for some time....It will be very confusing when they all are co-mingled with the 25th Annie SET labels....
25th PF
Bullion
Another Bullion
2010 even more confusing >>
Huh? Only $150 for a PR70 2011 Rev Proof?
The name is LEE!
<< <i><< if the feather dent turned out to be a reliable marker, then it could prove to be a second way to distinguish original 25th Anniversary set so-called Bullion coins from all others. >>
Only if the "feather dent" dies were not also used to strike ordinary bullion coins.
Does the "feather dent" appear on any other coins in the set? >>
In my sets at least, the Feather Dent is unique to these coins. I have searched various older ASE's that I have and haven't found a match yet.
I would suggest that everyone else here do the same. Even if you haven't opened your sets, please look at your old ASE's to try to find a match and, if you have opened your set, take the time to see if you have one of these without a Feather Dimple.
I want to assert again that these are struck twice. Any of you with the plain bullion issue can easily compare and many of you know, from previous experience, how to tell a proof strike from a business strike.
I have minted myself and can tell you from experience that, no matter the shape of the planchet, that edge will not extrude and become sharp on the first punch, ever (unless striking gold). You may argue that "they could just increase the pressure", however, you would be wrong as this would lead to decreased die life and unsatisfactory surfaces.
Also, at least for the bead-blasted issues in this set, the dies (when properly cared for) could easily last for 100,000 strikes. You may need to bead-blast the dies four or five times but the die could have certainly survived the entire mintage.
On another note (this will cause a firestorm) has anyone bothered to check the collar die's for a match between these coins?
What if the collars for this coin match the San Francisco or West Point Issue? Collars are more expensive to make than coin dies and they have a longer life expectancy, making it very likely that they were reused whenever possible for these coins.
I specialize in Errors, Minting, Counterfeit Detection & Grading.
Computer-aided grading, counterfeit detection, recognition and imaging.
<< <i>Huh? Only $150 for a PR70 2011 Rev Proof? >>
I didn't even look at the coin I just read the title....methinks someone got a PF with a RP pic
<< <i>what if there are only 10k feather dimple Eagles? >>
What if there are only 95k feather dimple Eagles?
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
the dimple should be on the bullion coin only.
the bullion coin dont have a "S" on it and it dont have a "W" on it.
its not the reverse proof,nor the proof....so that only leaves one coin to look for it on.
However, you will not find the feather dent on regular common bullion 2011 ASE's minted in San Francisco, as shown here:
Ed Davidson
<< <i>
<< <i>what if there are only 10k feather dimple Eagles? >>
What if there are only 95k feather dimple Eagles? >>
... and what if someone discovers a DD reverse with two distinct dimples on the tail feather?
- Jim
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>what if there are only 10k feather dimple Eagles? >>
What if there are only 95k feather dimple Eagles? >>
... and what if someone discovers a DD reverse with two distinct dimples on the tail feather?
DDD ...