SO....we are now up to a series of new questions involving these sets....specifically the bullion coin. Gotta love it.
-Will the TPGs change their minds and give the bullion the (S) label given this new info? And given that that new info is legit? (I could really care less). -Is the "burnished" bullion strike folks have been seeing actually different from the non-set strikes? If so, will the TPGs recognize the variety?
The TPGs have changed their minds before. Just less than a year ago PCGS changed their tune and starting giving out PL, etc. on the ATBs and UHRs.
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Well, didn't PCGS start recognizing a different finish in the ATB - Yellowstone puck? It seems if the 25th bullion has a different finish than the non-25th bullion, it too would be recognized, not necessarily by mintmark but by finish.
All the ones I've seen look burnished. Bet they all look similar. Not a variety or error in my opnion. As mentioned earlier, the 2006 sets had different finishes and nothing ever came of it. I actually started a thread with pics about it. The experts iirc chimed in that it was a simple matter of die stages that led to the different look. If you looked the Mint sets from the satin finish years you see this. As the dies wore the satin finish affect wore off and towards the end of the die life the coins were close in appearance to the business strikes.
<< <i>All the ones I've seen look burnished. Bet they all look similar. Not a variety or error in my opnion. As mentioned earlier, the 2006 sets had different finishes and nothing ever came of it. I actually started a thread with pics about it. The experts iirc chimed in that it was a simple matter of die stages that led to the different look. If you looked the Mint sets from the satin finish years you see this. As the dies wore the satin finish affect wore off and towards the end of the die life the coins were close in appearance to the business strikes. >>
Yes, but still different than their bullion brothers. Burnished bullion. Has anyone seen a regular 2011 bullion coin with a burnished finish? If it is a die stage, they would be out there.
<< <i>In yesterday's CW, a Mint official, Tom Jurkowsky, reconfirmed that the bullion coin in the set was minted exclusively at San Francisco. He said the decision to do so was made after the COA's were printed. I don't know what more PCGS needs to properly label this coin. >>
I don't know whether to laugh or cry? >>
I know - I feel the same way. Unfortunately, when it comes time to sell, that is all many buyers look at.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
<< <i>Will the TPGs change their minds and give the bullion the (S) label given this new info? And given that that new info is legit? >>
Sure. For a re-submission fee.
Russ, NCNE >>
I'm trying my damdest to get this straight with PCGS.
My real concern is that IF someone makes a point of the fact that they're S Bullion coins then, with the precedent thats already been set by the TPG's, the right thing to do is label them 2011-(S). IMO its better to head it off before too many get slabbed up than wait until after the fact.
Regardless of what occurs, it'll be contro-va-bersial.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
I would prefer that the TPG's not identify any minting location unless it has a mint mark (with the exception of the Philadelphia mint). We are going down the pathway to the ridiculous. Are we going to identify the production line and even the mint employee who struck them eventually? Where does it end?
Mine looks just like the image (left coin) in the first post for this thread. I don't have any standard "bullion" issues with which to make a comparison, though, but it sure looks like I have 3 burnished coins in my set... There is also a difference in the finish on the "bullion" coin from the set and the W and S mint marked coins. This difference is most noticeable on eagle's feathers on the reverse. In the W and S mint marked coins, the feather outlines are more polished and shinier than they are on the "bullion" coin from the set.
EAC member since 2011, one third of the way through my 1793 large cent type set
When the George Washington "Godless" dollars came out, most were associated with the Philadelphia mint. Then, some dollars came on the scene that were attributed to the Denver mint--and , frankly, they were easily distinguishable by their finish--i even have an example taken from a Denver sealed box--opened by PCGS, graded as a FS coin, out of Denver--but...its rimless, the missed that part on the label. PCGS refused back then to make any effort to say Washington (2007 D) vs (2007 P). I wonder if that holds true today, when finishes are so different from different mints again
I'm not convinced set no m/m bullion coins were minted seperately. The mint has already gone on record that some or none of them may be from San Francisco, the very same place that was used to help meet demand with the millions churned out earlier. Many of those have come back PCGS MS70.
OK, by popular demand...I donned my white cotton gloves and removed the 25th Anniversary "Bullion" no-mint-mark coin from its capsule (center coin) and surrounded it with six common 2011 Bullion (S) BU coins straight from a monster box. The camera lens was set at 85mm, 4 overhead 150w lamps, no flash, and no computer manipulation other than cropping the outer edge. What do ya think?
If these silver eagles do have a different finish (satin finish) then they should be acknowledged just like the satin finish quarters in the mint sets.
<< <i>OK, by popular demand...I donned my white cotton gloves and removed the 25th Anniversary "Bullion" no-mint-mark coin from its capsule (center coin) and surrounded it with five common 2011 Bullion (S) BU coins straight from a monster box. The camera lens was set at 85mm, 4 overhead 150w lamps, no flash, and no computer manipulation other than cropping the outer edge. What do ya think? >>
I like the look of the six, better than the "center coin".
<< <i>If these silver eagles do have a different finish (satin finish) then they should be acknowledged just like the satin finish quarters in the mint sets. >>
Thanks for taking the time to take the comparative pics YoYoSpin!
This coin is definitely struck twice; Matte Proof. The edge could be used to cut wood. Can't do that with the others.
Because to Err is Human. I specialize in Errors, Minting, Counterfeit Detection & Grading. Computer-aided grading, counterfeit detection, recognition and imaging.
<< <i>I would prefer that the TPG's not identify any minting location unless it has a mint mark (with the exception of the Philadelphia mint). We are going down the pathway to the ridiculous. Are we going to identify the production line and even the mint employee who struck them eventually? Where does it end? >>
I would agree 100%, but IF the finish is different than it should be acknowledge because that would make the bullion coin in the 25th anniversary set different than the regular bullion coin (regardless of where it was minted).
Curious images for sure, Ed! This is shaping up to be a nice surprise/discovery. This will probably take a few more days to fully shake out, but things look promising for 3 unique coins instead of 2 in the set.
EAC member since 2011, one third of the way through my 1793 large cent type set
<< <i>I would prefer that the TPG's not identify any minting location unless it has a mint mark (with the exception of the Philadelphia mint). We are going down the pathway to the ridiculous. Are we going to identify the production line and even the mint employee who struck them eventually? Where does it end? >>
Wasn't the ASE in the millennium set given the W mint mark because the ASEs that went into the sets were struck at West Point?
<< <i>I would prefer that the TPG's not identify any minting location unless it has a mint mark (with the exception of the Philadelphia mint). We are going down the pathway to the ridiculous. Are we going to identify the production line and even the mint employee who struck them eventually? Where does it end? >>
Wasn't the ASE in the millennium set given the W mint mark because the ASEs that went into the sets were struck at West Point? >>
Yes - if submitted in packaging (unopened for the SAE)
<< <i>If these silver eagles do have a different finish (satin finish) then they should be acknowledged just like the satin finish quarters in the mint sets. >>
You mean with an SP69 Grade?
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>OK, by popular demand...I donned my white cotton gloves and removed the 25th Anniversary "Bullion" no-mint-mark coin from its capsule (center coin) and surrounded it with six common 2011 Bullion (S) BU coins straight from a monster box. The camera lens was set at 85mm, 4 overhead 150w lamps, no flash, and no computer manipulation other than cropping the outer edge. What do ya think?
>>
I think if this coin went into the grading room with the others in a blind submission, the graders would drop their loops and say: "Houston We Have a Problem" ! ! !
HH
Need the following OBW rolls to complete my 46-64 Roosevelt roll set: 1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S. Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
<< <i>I would prefer that the TPG's not identify any minting location unless it has a mint mark (with the exception of the Philadelphia mint). We are going down the pathway to the ridiculous. Are we going to identify the production line and even the mint employee who struck them eventually? Where does it end? >>
Wasn't the ASE in the millennium set given the W mint mark because the ASEs that went into the sets were struck at West Point? >>
Yes - if submitted in packaging (unopened for the SAE) >>
No it wasn't.
It only received the "Millenium" designation if it was submitted in the Millenium Set Packaging.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
I'm not impressed with the differences in the pics. Insignificant in my book. Looks like newer dies used on some, older on others. I wouldn't bet the farm on any action or notation from our hosts either. Interesting topic nonetheless. PCGS called the Mint set coins(2005-10) Satin finish for the first few years then changed their designation to SP btw.
Much nicer strike on the center coin, nice even rims on both sides compared to the surrounding coins. This will get very interesting in the near future. I also did not know that Tom whom ever came out after Mr Willis made his statement on these on the 10th. So take a step back I am only human.
<< <i>I got some 2011 W Burnished(?) when they were first released.... I noticed mine didn't have the burnished "look".
btw: when I bought the 2011 W's, 5 of them and no box cost more than the 5 coin 2011 set... ... The mint sold the sets way too cheap. >>
Come to think of it, you're right!
2011-W Unc = 50.95 (Current US Mint Price) 2011-W Proof = 58.95 (Current US Mint Price) 2011-S Unc = 50.95 (est based on 2011-W) 2011 - P Rev Proof = 58.95 (est based on 2011-W Proof) 2011 = $38 (bullion est)
$257.80 just for the coins at current costs.
If they'd have charged $349.95 they still would have sold out.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>OK, by popular demand...I donned my white cotton gloves and removed the 25th Anniversary "Bullion" no-mint-mark coin from its capsule (center coin) and surrounded it with six common 2011 Bullion (S) BU coins straight from a monster box. The camera lens was set at 85mm, 4 overhead 150w lamps, no flash, and no computer manipulation other than cropping the outer edge. What do ya think?
>>
The original, two-coin side-by-side picture looked much more convincing. In this seven-coin shot, the middle coin looks like it has a PVC haze on it.
Wasn't there some report that some of the coins were struck months before the sets were sold? I wonder how they were stored between being struck and being encapsulated, and for how long?
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>The original, two-coin side-by-side picture looked much more convincing. In this seven-coin shot, the middle coin looks like it has a PVC haze on it. Wasn't there some report that some of the coins were struck months before the sets were sold? I wonder how they were stored between being struck and being encapsulated, and for how long? >>
The photos aren't really doing these justice. You really need to see them in hand. They are clearly NOT a regular bullion coin. The finish is muted satin, just like the W and S versions. They do not have the reflective, shiny look of a regular strike bullion. On my five, the W and S were slightly more reflective than the bullion (i.e. the bullion was slightly duller), but all (W, S, bullion) have that burnished look.
<< <i>I have seen a number of different "looks" on bullion ASEs over the years and have never been able to attribute it to anything more than "random." >>
Agreed, I have a pile of randoms and the looks on them vary wildly.
Comments
<< <i>But...IF they changed and put an S on the slab for the bullion...doesn't that make the set kind of weird?
a burnished coin with an s labeled s, and a burnished coin without an s labeled s
if the "bullion" and "uncirculated" are both burnished...what's the difference in the coins? >>
PCGS has already done so for S.F. minted coins w/o a mintmark... they label them as 2011-(S) instead of 2011-S
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
<< <i>
<< <i>But...IF they changed and put an S on the slab for the bullion...doesn't that make the set kind of weird?
a burnished coin with an s labeled s, and a burnished coin without an s labeled s
if the "bullion" and "uncirculated" are both burnished...what's the difference in the coins? >>
PCGS has already done so for S.F. minted coins w/o a mintmark... they label them as 2011-(S) instead of 2011-S >>
My point is...what's the point? Why make an S mark and an unmarked of the same finish at the same mint?
-Will the TPGs change their minds and give the bullion the (S) label given this new info? And given that that new info is legit? (I could really care less).
-Is the "burnished" bullion strike folks have been seeing actually different from the non-set strikes? If so, will the TPGs recognize the variety?
The TPGs have changed their minds before. Just less than a year ago PCGS changed their tune and starting giving out PL, etc. on the ATBs and UHRs.
pcgs would change their mind about the "bullion" coin
unless the mint calls them directly, and you know that's not
going to happen. Mr. Willis did make an effort and question
the mint about this coin and may have been wrongly informed..
<< <i>All the ones I've seen look burnished. Bet they all look similar. Not a variety or error in my opnion. As mentioned earlier, the 2006 sets had different finishes and nothing ever came of it. I actually started a thread with pics about it. The experts iirc chimed in that it was a simple matter of die stages that led to the different look. If you looked the Mint sets from the satin finish years you see this. As the dies wore the satin finish affect wore off and towards the end of the die life the coins were close in appearance to the business strikes. >>
Yes, but still different than their bullion brothers. Burnished bullion. Has anyone seen a regular 2011 bullion coin with a burnished finish? If it is a die stage, they would be out there.
<< <i>Will the TPGs change their minds and give the bullion the (S) label given this new info? And given that that new info is legit? >>
Sure. For a re-submission fee.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>Will the TPGs change their minds and give the bullion the (S) label given this new info? And given that that new info is legit? >>
Sure. For a re-submission fee.
Russ, NCNE >>
Hum, let see. Get most of them graded and then come out with new label. You want the label, please send $$.
<< <i>
<< <i>In yesterday's CW, a Mint official, Tom Jurkowsky, reconfirmed that the bullion
coin in the set was minted exclusively at San Francisco. He said the decision to
do so was made after the COA's were printed. I don't know what more PCGS
needs to properly label this coin. >>
I don't know whether to laugh or cry? >>
I know - I feel the same way. Unfortunately, when it comes time to sell, that is all many buyers look at.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
~ Vince Lombardi
<< <i>
<< <i>Will the TPGs change their minds and give the bullion the (S) label given this new info? And given that that new info is legit? >>
Sure. For a re-submission fee.
Russ, NCNE >>
I'm trying my damdest to get this straight with PCGS.
My real concern is that IF someone makes a point of the fact that they're S Bullion coins then, with the precedent thats already been set by the TPG's, the right thing to do is label them 2011-(S). IMO its better to head it off before too many get slabbed up than wait until after the fact.
Regardless of what occurs, it'll be contro-va-bersial.
The name is LEE!
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
Cheers!
Jim
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
Ed Davidson
<< <i>OK, by popular demand...I donned my white cotton gloves and removed the 25th Anniversary "Bullion" no-mint-mark coin from its capsule (center coin) and surrounded it with five common 2011 Bullion (S) BU coins straight from a monster box. The camera lens was set at 85mm, 4 overhead 150w lamps, no flash, and no computer manipulation other than cropping the outer edge. What do ya think? >>
I like the look of the six, better than the "center coin".
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
<< <i>If these silver eagles do have a different finish (satin finish) then they should be acknowledged just like the satin finish quarters in the mint sets. >>
Thanks for taking the time to take the comparative pics YoYoSpin!
Coinfame,Kaelasdad,Type2,UNLVino,MICHAELDIXON
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I specialize in Errors, Minting, Counterfeit Detection & Grading.
Computer-aided grading, counterfeit detection, recognition and imaging.
<< <i>I would prefer that the TPG's not identify any minting location unless it has a mint mark (with the exception of the Philadelphia mint). We are going down the pathway to the ridiculous. Are we going to identify the production line and even the mint employee who struck them eventually? Where does it end? >>
I would agree 100%, but IF the finish is different than it should be acknowledge because that would make the bullion coin in the 25th anniversary set different than the regular bullion coin (regardless of where it was minted).
<< <i>I would prefer that the TPG's not identify any minting location unless it has a mint mark (with the exception of the Philadelphia mint). We are going down the pathway to the ridiculous. Are we going to identify the production line and even the mint employee who struck them eventually? Where does it end? >>
Wasn't the ASE in the millennium set given the W mint mark because the ASEs that went into the sets were struck at West Point?
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
<< <i>
<< <i>I would prefer that the TPG's not identify any minting location unless it has a mint mark (with the exception of the Philadelphia mint). We are going down the pathway to the ridiculous. Are we going to identify the production line and even the mint employee who struck them eventually? Where does it end? >>
Wasn't the ASE in the millennium set given the W mint mark because the ASEs that went into the sets were struck at West Point? >>
Yes - if submitted in packaging (unopened for the SAE)
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Shine the bat signal and use the batphone?
Action folks! Action!
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Same bat time,same bat channel.
<< <i>If these silver eagles do have a different finish (satin finish) then they should be acknowledged just like the satin finish quarters in the mint sets. >>
You mean with an SP69 Grade?
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>But...IF they changed and put an S on the slab for the bullion...doesn't that make the set kind of weird?
a burnished coin with an s labeled s, and a burnished coin without an s labeled s
if the "bullion" and "uncirculated" are both burnished...what's the difference in the coins? >>
PCGS has already done so for S.F. minted coins w/o a mintmark... they label them as 2011-(S) instead of 2011-S >>
My point is...what's the point? Why make an S mark and an unmarked of the same finish at the same mint? >>
LOL! Ain't that what they do at West Point??
The name is LEE!
I just sold 2 of these coins to a "woodturningguy" on eBay this afternoon.
I will have to tell him they were eaten by my dog and I will have to refund his payment and cancel the auction.
"Item no longer available"
Joe
<< <i>OK, by popular demand...I donned my white cotton gloves and removed the 25th Anniversary "Bullion" no-mint-mark coin from its capsule (center coin) and surrounded it with six common 2011 Bullion (S) BU coins straight from a monster box. The camera lens was set at 85mm, 4 overhead 150w lamps, no flash, and no computer manipulation other than cropping the outer edge. What do ya think?
I think if this coin went into the grading room with the others in a blind submission, the graders would drop their loops and say: "Houston We Have a Problem" ! ! !
HH
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I would prefer that the TPG's not identify any minting location unless it has a mint mark (with the exception of the Philadelphia mint). We are going down the pathway to the ridiculous. Are we going to identify the production line and even the mint employee who struck them eventually? Where does it end? >>
Wasn't the ASE in the millennium set given the W mint mark because the ASEs that went into the sets were struck at West Point? >>
Yes - if submitted in packaging (unopened for the SAE) >>
No it wasn't.
It only received the "Millenium" designation if it was submitted in the Millenium Set Packaging.
The name is LEE!
www.brunkauctions.com
<< <i>So, who used the red phone to call Don and bring this up to him?
Shine the bat signal and use the batphone?
Action folks! Action!
Here's your phone: dwillis@pcgs.com
The name is LEE!
btw: when I bought the 2011 W's, 5 of them and no box cost more than the 5 coin 2011 set... ... The mint sold the sets way too cheap.
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
<< <i>I got some 2011 W Burnished(?) when they were first released.... I noticed mine didn't have the burnished "look".
btw: when I bought the 2011 W's, 5 of them and no box cost more than the 5 coin 2011 set... ... The mint sold the sets way too cheap.
>>
Come to think of it, you're right!
2011-W Unc = 50.95 (Current US Mint Price)
2011-W Proof = 58.95 (Current US Mint Price)
2011-S Unc = 50.95 (est based on 2011-W)
2011 - P Rev Proof = 58.95 (est based on 2011-W Proof)
2011 = $38 (bullion est)
$257.80 just for the coins at current costs.
If they'd have charged $349.95 they still would have sold out.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>OK, by popular demand...I donned my white cotton gloves and removed the 25th Anniversary "Bullion" no-mint-mark coin from its capsule (center coin) and surrounded it with six common 2011 Bullion (S) BU coins straight from a monster box. The camera lens was set at 85mm, 4 overhead 150w lamps, no flash, and no computer manipulation other than cropping the outer edge. What do ya think?
The original, two-coin side-by-side picture looked much more convincing. In this seven-coin shot, the middle coin looks like it has a PVC haze on it.
Wasn't there some report that some of the coins were struck months before the sets were sold? I wonder how they were stored between being struck and being encapsulated, and for how long?
<< <i>The original, two-coin side-by-side picture looked much more convincing. In this seven-coin shot, the middle coin looks like it has a PVC haze on it. Wasn't there some report that some of the coins were struck months before the sets were sold? I wonder how they were stored between being struck and being encapsulated, and for how long? >>
The photos aren't really doing these justice. You really need to see them in hand. They are clearly NOT a regular bullion coin. The finish is muted satin, just like the W and S versions. They do not have the reflective, shiny look of a regular strike bullion. On my five, the W and S were slightly more reflective than the bullion (i.e. the bullion was slightly duller), but all (W, S, bullion) have that burnished look.
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
There are lots of them floating around in 3 coin sets now for the taking cheap.
<< <i>OK, so where do we go from here on these coins.
There are lots of them floating around in 3 coin sets now for the taking cheap. >>
3 coin sets are no good. Opened packaging
Sucks that this coin could be had for cheap but yet because it is an opened set the TPG will more than likely not recognize them (if they ever did).
<< <i>I have seen a number of different "looks" on bullion ASEs over the years and have never been able to attribute it to anything more than "random." >>
Agreed, I have a pile of randoms and the looks on them vary wildly.