<< <i>There's a movie quote that seems apropos to this situatuion as it pertains to Paterno et.al.
In the movie "A Few Good Men"... after the trial ends and the two Marines defended by Tom Cruise's character are cleared of murder but still are given dishonorable discharges...
One Marine looks to the other and says..."What did we do wrong? We did nothing wrong."
The other replies-"Yeah, we did. We were supposed to fight for the people who couldn't fight for themselves. " >>
The public seems basically about split on this nationwide...nationwide might lean a bit more to the anti-Paterno side.
"Everybody" on your side wants to pile on Paterno, and that's your prerogative. What about the parents of these kids? Where were they? If the kids were orphans, what about the orphanage responsibilities? Parents and guardians for years usually ask their kids when the parents and guardians know their kids were out with a non-family member, if they were touched in any inappropriate places. How about the parents and guardians responsibility? A kid is out with a boy scout adult, I would imagine when the child gets home that almost every kid gets asked if the adult touched him/her somewhere on their body and to point to where they were touched.
Yea, Joe Paterno is the easy target for the haters...and they're like feasting piranhas having a grand old time eating up an old man...listening to their Michael Jackson records, right? But oh no, Michael was okay, right? Don't say anything bad about Michael.
It is obvious that you will never understand why Paterno was fired(or needed to be fired and have his character put into question)...I guess it is a good thing you are not in decision making positions where other people are greatly affected by your decisions. >>
It's also obvious to Franco Harris, and millions of other people too. Jopa did not know what we now know, reported what he did know to an authority, and did not commit any crime, nor is being charged for one. How in God's name can someone be fired for doing what he was trained to do ? He did absolutely 100% what educators are trained to do. He reported it to his superior. His superior dropped the ball on this one. >>
I feel the need to repost my quote above here....
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<< <i>There's a movie quote that seems apropos to this situatuion as it pertains to Paterno et.al.
In the movie "A Few Good Men"... after the trial ends and the two Marines defended by Tom Cruise's character are cleared of murder but still are given dishonorable discharges...
One Marine looks to the other and says..."What did we do wrong? We did nothing wrong."
The other replies-"Yeah, we did. We were supposed to fight for the people who couldn't fight for themselves. " >>
The public seems basically about split on this nationwide...nationwide might lean a bit more to the anti-Paterno side.
"Everybody" on your side wants to pile on Paterno, and that's your prerogative. What about the parents of these kids? Where were they? If the kids were orphans, what about the orphange responsibilities? Parents and guardians for years usually ask their kids when the parents and guardians know their kids were out with a non-family member, if they were touched in any inappropriate places. How about the parents and guardians responsibility? A kid is out with a bot scout adult, I would imagine when vhe gets home that almost every kid gets asked if the adult touched him somewhere and to point to where he was touched.
Yea, Joe Paterno is the easy target for the haters...and they're like feasting piranhas having a grand old time eating up an old man...listening to their Michael Jackson records, right? But oh no, Michael was okay, right? Don't say anything bad about Michael. >>
And yet another example as to why stevek is a POS with the attempt to blame the parents. What a scumbag POS.
You have all lauded Paterno for being a great man, praisng his integrity, strive for excellence, putting others above yourself, thoroughness, inspiring people to strive for the best and not settle for mediocrity, and more.
Had this been on another campus, you guys would be on here saying, no way something like this would ever happen on Paterno's campus. He would personally lead that scumbag out the door to make sure his face is never seen on campus again...because that is how great men act.
He failed...and it wasn't just a simple NCAA infraction failure...he failed the kids.
Only people who don't see it are the biased ones, or the knuckle draggers.
Did you guys ever hear of the phrase, "follow up"?
<< <i>[Q"Everybody" on your side wants to pile on Paterno, and that's your prerogative. What about the parents of these kids? Where were they? If the kids were orphans, what about the orphange responsibilities? Parents and guardians for years usually ask their kids when the parents and guardians know their kids were out with a non-family member, if they were touched in any inappropriate places. How about the parents and guardians responsibility? A kid is out with a bot scout adult, I would imagine when vhe gets home that almost every kid gets asked if the adult touched him somewhere and to point to where he was touched.
. >>
SteveK, you are POS.
Put that quote on your hero Paterno you moron!
PATERNO should have been saying to his friend, "what the he@ll are you bringing kids around campus for and having them sleep by your house, especially after that 1998 incident? Then you have the nerve to fondle one of them in our shower facility?! Pack your bags and turn yourself in you piece of garbage, or I am going straight to the cops right now!! I don't ever want to see you around here again!!"
Instead he sheepishly reported it to his 'superior' and when nothing was done he breathed a sigh of relief, instead of following up on it to make sure a piece of child molesting garbage could no longer hurt kids on his facilities!
<< <i>[Q"Everybody" on your side wants to pile on Paterno, and that's your prerogative. What about the parents of these kids? Where were they? If the kids were orphans, what about the orphange responsibilities? Parents and guardians for years usually ask their kids when the parents and guardians know their kids were out with a non-family member, if they were touched in any inappropriate places. How about the parents and guardians responsibility? A kid is out with a bot scout adult, I would imagine when vhe gets home that almost every kid gets asked if the adult touched him somewhere and to point to where he was touched.
. >>
SteveK, you are POS.
Put that quote on your hero Paterno you moron!
PATERNO should have been saying to his friend, "what the he@ll are you bringing kids around campus for and having them sleep by your house, especially after that 1998 incident? Then you have the nerve to fondle one of them in our shower facility?! Pack your bags and turn yourself in you piece of garbage, or I am going straight to the cops right now!! I don't ever want to see you around here again!!"
Instead he sheepishly reported it to his 'superior' and when nothing was done he breathed a sigh of relief, instead of following up on it to make sure a piece of child molesting garbage could no longer hurt kids on his facilities! >>
You didn't answer my rhetorical questions...you ignored them because you know I'm right. Any parent or the orphanage, I don't know the history of these kids...with a little effort could have put a stop to this very early.
When those on a certain side want to abdicate parental responsibility and give the power and responsibility of raising their kids to the state...whether it's Paterno's fault or not doesn't matter at all with the point of my post. The parents and guardians were much more responsible for not being vigilant about a pervasive problem in situations regarding strangers and children.
My parents taught me to never talk to strangers. What are today's parents teaching their children?
Saberman, I know you're not stupid...changing the system at Penn State will help with the problem, but it won't solve the problem...parents being vigilant and not being complacent about possible child molestation with strangers who they hand off their kids to each day, should be a mandatory lesson for parents to learn.
Those parents didn't know it was going on...but Paterno did!! Yet you seek the parents or orphanages to have stopped it??
Your search for people that could have EASILY put an end to it starts and ends with one man...Paterno! He had the knowledge of it, it was HIS friend who was doing it, and it was in his house where it was being done!
The more I think about it I believe it could have actually went down like this:
a) Sandusky rapes little boys while at PSU
b) Sandusky is confronted by authorities and PSU
c) Penn St decides that a cover up is in the best interest of the program. Police and program cover up
d) Sandusky now realizes that he has Penn State by the nads and they will do anything to keep this quiet. He is in the proverbial cat bird seat
Shampoo, lather, rinse, repeat until all the sh*t hits the fan in 2010 when the grand jury happens. I believe that PSU has a tidal wave of cr@p coming its way and will be knock down to it's foundation. History will be very unkind on Joe Paterno and I have zero problem with that.
MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
BTW: If these predators know that if they commit their crime, that the kid will go home, and the parents will ask junior if they have been touched or whatever in any inappropriate places, or however they want to word the conversation, then I think it could dissuade the potential predator from acting on his urges if he knows for sure that he will be immediately caught.
Criminals usually gravitate towards the weakest link or if there is no link. Just like a "neighborhood watch" sign in a neighborhood could deter thieves...perhaps a potential predator knowing the child has vigilant parents, will help him to keep his pervert urges to himself.
Yes, that is passing the problem to the weakest link and the predator may strike sooner or later anyway, but even when he does strike, a knowledgeable parent can help with this fight against these diseased criminals. If the parent senses a problem but the kid doesn't wish to speak about it, then a good counselor should get involved who will hopefully know how to tactically get the information from the child, and hopefully these child predators can be stopped early in their criminal activity.
The whole program is intertwined with Paterno and Sandusky disciples. The board may need to cancel football for 2 years to rid the program of "beneovlant dictatorship" culture loyal to Paterno.
At the very least, the NCAA should allow the player to transfer to other schools without any penalty on eligibility.
...and stevek continues to wear blinders to his hero...the one man who really was in position to stop his friend from raping kids, yet turned a blind eye instead, and in essence was an enabler.
Justacommeman, that sounds like a very plausible scenario. Paterno and CO know they have a child rapist on their campus. They can't be that evil and think that it is ok to have a chid rapist on their campus...but since they didn't do anything about it the first time, they can't now, because then they will be axed for failure to do anything the first time.
For all the morons who are aghast that this is tearing down Paterno's legacy. It isn't tearing anything down...it is a simple reassessment. He was hailed in the past as a great man. This scandal has proven without a doubt that he does not deserve such accolades!
Those parents didn't know it was going on...but Paterno did!! Yet you seek the parents or orphanages to have stopped it??
Your search for people that could have EASILY put an end to it starts and ends with one man...Paterno! He had the knowledge of it, it was HIS friend who was doing it, and it was in his house where it was being done! >>
See now you're just being very silly with your first remark.
But you're right, the parents didn't know what was going on...but my point is to give parents the education, knowledge and training to know what's going on...hope you see what I'm saying...i thought you'd like this point...providing parents with ideas about the problem so that we can all combat the problem...it's gonna take a team effort to stop these walking disease predators...but if you still disagree I guess there's nothing I can say about it...and you can go ahead and call me another dirty name.
Those parents didn't know it was going on...but Paterno did!! Yet you seek the parents or orphanages to have stopped it??
Your search for people that could have EASILY put an end to it starts and ends with one man...Paterno! He had the knowledge of it, it was HIS friend who was doing it, and it was in his house where it was being done! >>
See now you're just being very silly with your first remark.
But you're right, the parents didn't know what was going on...but my point is to give parents the education, knowledge and training to know what's going on...hope you see what I'm saying...i thought you'd like this point...providing parents with ideas about the problem so that we can all combat the problem...it's gonna take a team effort to stop these walking disease predators...but if you still disagree I guess there's nothing I can say about it...and you can go ahead and call me another dirty name. >>
Or, if you are the guy in charge of a program, and you know your friend is raping kids in your facilities...you go to the ends of the earth to make sure that guy is never seen on campus again and goes to jail
Stevek, Please stop deciding you actually know anything about those that disagree with you simply because they do not agree. Since you have already brought up the Holocaust, McCarthy, the evils of gambling, Michael Jackson (do you always attack those that disagree with you?), the liberal media conspiracy and bad parenting I can only imagine that next you will start attacking the victims. Apparently no low is too low when you decide your hero is being vilified.
A friend of mine was abused when we were in middle school. He never said anything to anyone until after his abuser was caught in the act. He had loving parents but he was too ashamed and too afraid to say anything to them. My friend ended up talking his own life after college. I don't know if he would have been suicidal without the abuse but I certainly know it didn't help and neither did all the counseling he received after. So I know exactly what I would have done in Paterno's shoes.
You seemed like a passionate jerk but with your Micheal Jackson comment I realize you are just a complete as*h***.
<< <i>The more I think about it I believe it could have actually went down like this:
a) Sandusky rapes little boys while at PSU
b) Sandusky is confronted by authorities and PSU
c) Penn St decides that a cover up is in the best interest of the program. Police and program cover up
d) Sandusky now realizes that he has Penn State by the nads and they will do anything to keep this quiet. He is in the proverbial cat bird seat
Shampoo, lather, rinse, repeat until all the sh*t hits the fan in 2010 when the grand jury happens. I believe that PSU has a tidal wave of cr@p coming its way and will be knock down to it's foundation. History will be very unkind on Joe Paterno and I have zero problem with that.
MJ >>
If your thesis is true MJ, then Sandusky doesn't live past this Christmas, as well as anyone else with incriminating evidence towards Penn State or Joe Paterno. I suspect there will be some police "transfers" (with possible huge amounts of cash), there will be some fired staff (who will get huge amounts of cash), and Sandusky will die (perhaps of a heart attack says the coroner), but there will be an ounce of cyanide mixed in his drink.
If the university tried to sweep this under the rug, then there will be a lot of "strange" things happening in the next six months.
I'm sure Sandusky has already been given the choice (by some strange individual) of suicide, or driving off a cliff. Of course I'm only guessing, but I wouldn't be suprised if that message has yet to be relayed to him.
It's the most plausible thing I can come up with that makes sense and fits the timelines and actions. Or in this case, inactions...........I'm probably missing the obvious. MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>There's a movie quote that seems apropos to this situatuion as it pertains to Paterno et.al.
In the movie "A Few Good Men"... after the trial ends and the two Marines defended by Tom Cruise's character are cleared of murder but still are given dishonorable discharges...
One Marine looks to the other and says..."What did we do wrong? We did nothing wrong."
The other replies-"Yeah, we did. We were supposed to fight for the people who couldn't fight for themselves. " >>
The public seems basically about split on this nationwide...nationwide might lean a bit more to the anti-Paterno side.
"Everybody" on your side wants to pile on Paterno, and that's your prerogative. What about the parents of these kids? Where were they? If the kids were orphans, what about the orphange responsibilities? Parents and
guardians for years usually ask their kids when the parents and guardians know their kids were out with a non-family member, if they were touched in any inappropriate places. How about the parents and guardians responsibility? A kid is out with a bot scout adult, I would imagine when vhe gets home that almost every kid gets asked if the adult touched him somewhere and to point to where he was touched.
Yea, Joe Paterno is the easy target for the haters...and they're like feasting piranhas having a grand old time eating up an old man...listening to their Michael Jackson records, right? But oh no, Michael was okay, right? Don't say anything bad about Michael. >>
Sigh. It seems the Penn State faithful just don't get it and want to try to use silly non-applicable analogies to try to deflect the point.
Though I've no doubt you'll deny it, you are quite obviously taking this on some level as a personal affront simply because you went to Penn State. I understand the concept of school pride- but I can't believe the absolutely blind devotion to someone who in this instance doesn't really have it coming.
Oh, and as an aside-for the record I think Michael Jackson was scum, much on the same level with Sandusky- perhaps worse, because he bought his way out of being prosecuted. He's where he belongs now imo. Please don't presume to know who or what I am, my politics or how I think. You'd be wrong on all counts.
I don't want to "pile on" Paterno. I'm not even that much of a college football fan so I have had no beef with him prior to this. (I went to Bradley...basketball's our thing).
On one level I feel a bit bad for him because I'm sure that in his own mind, he thinks he is being unfairly treated. But I and other people who aren't biased see this for what it is... a failure (by Paterno and several others) to do simple followup on something that should have been aggressively pursued and settled years ago. And if you really think "millions" of people agree with your viewpoints on this, then you are truly drinking much too deeply from the Joe Pa koolaid dispenser.
Two words... DUE DILIGENCE. No one did any, including Saint Joe. As the face of the program, and the guy who has the most to lose if there's a scandal... if I'm him I make damned sure there's nothing to any allegations before Sandusky goes anywhere near a kid again.
This was his golden opportunity to at least help eradicate a scumbag from free society, protect the program and the school, and most importantly, prevent future kids from being harmed...and he would have been hailed as a hero for doing so, thus preserving his "legacy". But no one did anything substantive! Suggest re-reading the allegations and statements about the victims from the link above without the blue and white filter.
There is no way I would play on Saturday for McQueary, Bradley and that staff of coaches. If I had a son at Penn State, I would ask him to consider the victims and their families. Play the game if you want, but please...do NOT play if your heart tells you not to. I would like to think that I would have raised him the right way and he would not participate.
The more I read and the more I learn, the more I am thinking that MJ's assessment is the same as Barry Switzer's assessment and that both of them are dead on right. This smells from the top down to the bottom. PSU needs to clean house and defumigate and start fresh with people that have no association with Paterno, PSU, or anything that is even close to this situation.
<< <i>Stevek, Please stop deciding you actually know anything about those that disagree with you simply because they do not agree. Since you have already brought up the Holocaust, McCarthy, the evils of gambling, Michael Jackson (do you always attack those that disagree with you?), the liberal media conspiracy and bad parenting I can only imagine that next you will start attacking the victims. Apparently no low is too low when you decide your hero is being vilified.
A friend of mine was abused when we were in middle school. He never said anything to anyone until after his abuser was caught in the act. He had loving parents but he was too ashamed and too afraid to say anything to them. My friend ended up talking his own life after college. I don't know if he would have been suicidal without the abuse but I certainly know it didn't help and neither did all the counseling he received after. So I know exactly what I would have done in Paterno's shoes.
You seemed like a passionate jerk but with your Micheal Jackson comment I realize you are just a complete as*h***.
Robb >>
Sorry to hear about your friend. There are some bad counselors out there...for those who want to learn from your post, it's important, I believe, to hire a counselor specifically trained in the exact problem that needs to be addressed...and better yet, a counselor who was a victim of child abuse who has the desire to help others...that tells me it's not just about the money to them, that they will truly care about their patients.
You muddled my points in your first paragraph to make an extremely silly point, and I couldn't care less...but your dam right I talk about the evils of gambling...here, only when it's on topic to a thread or post and try not to belabor it. This may surprise you...I'm not against gambling in the true sense of the word...I'm not for a nanny state...I say create awareness about the addiction, and then if people want to gamble at least they have an informed choice, and Gary Loveman who you probably know, has had many commercials on TV with a similar message although my message is much stronger. The information I have written about gambling was primarily against exploitation of gamblers, which I didn't like when I was gambling and I certainly don't like that now. You're probably a poker player? Talk poker all ya want, play poker all ya want...that's fine by me, I've got nothing whatsoever against poker or poker players, and I've stated that numerous times - it's the exploitation that ticks me off and if you don't see the exploitation of underage children in online poker, which I mentioned a few posts back, then you don't wanna see. That's all.
Those parents didn't know it was going on...but Paterno did!! Yet you seek the parents or orphanages to have stopped it??
Your search for people that could have EASILY put an end to it starts and ends with one man...Paterno! He had the knowledge of it, it was HIS friend who was doing it, and it was in his house where it was being done! >>
That's incorrect. At least one parent knew it was going on in 1998, but the legal system failed her. Unsure why any parent would accept that answer knowing they were right about their child.
I'll wait for all the facts to come out before I pass judgment on anyone. I'm diehard Penn State, but I'm very disappointed in Penn State with what I have read so far. After the defense presents there side this will get a lot worse for most and maybe better for others? I pray for the victims and that this doesn't happen to anyone else, but sadly it goes on everywhere in the world and there are cowards that turn away instead of helping.
I vote for cancelling the last two games on the road for fear of safety for the players. Ohio State and Wisconsin won't be kind to these innocent kids. We have a legal system that will get it right this time and justice will be served.
The media and everyone need to calm the hell down. They have people more fired up than we were for 9-11.
<< <i>The more I read and the more I learn, the more I am thinking that MJ's assessment is the same as Barry Switzer's assessment and that both of them are dead on right. This smells from the top down to the bottom. PSU needs to clean house and defumigate and start fresh with people that have no association with Paterno, PSU, or anything that is even close to this situation.
Sam >>
I respect you and MJ for your opinions, but Barry Switzer was one of the most crooked coaches in the history of OU. He knowingly violated NCAA rules, and now he is acting as judge and jury ? Then again, perhaps because he's so experienced at cover ups, he can smell one a mile away.
<< <i> The media and everyone need to calm the hell down. They have people more fired up than we were for 9-11. >>
I'm sorry your school is caught in the middle of something really, really bad because of this Sandusky clown, but I must say that America has the right to be as fired up about this as 9/11.
We have a university and police department that allowed this Sandusky to do horrible things to kids.
Now, I believe Sandusky is the focus of our hatred, and we can be disappointed with the university president for dropping the ball, but we can't have major institutions acting like this in America.
Do you have children ? Every parent gets enraged when they hear about children getting victimized by predators. It is a sin of the worst kind, and we should be as mad as we were on 9/11.
Stevek, Not silly at all. It is quite logical based on the flow of your arguments thus far.
You don't have any issue whatsoever implying that anyone against Paterno must love a suspected pedophile (Michael Jackson).
Anyways I am done responding to you. Anyone that would insult those that disagree with them by implying they were supporters of a suspected pedophile while discussing the Penn State scandal is a very sick individual and needs help.
<< <i>The more I read and the more I learn, the more I am thinking that MJ's assessment is the same as Barry Switzer's assessment and that both of them are dead on right. This smells from the top down to the bottom. PSU needs to clean house and defumigate and start fresh with people that have no association with Paterno, PSU, or anything that is even close to this situation.
Sam >>
I respect you and MJ for your opinions, but Barry Switzer was one of the most crooked coaches in the history of OU. He knowingly violated NCAA rules, and now he is acting as judge and jury ? Then again, perhaps because he's so experienced at cover ups, he can smell one a mile away. >>
I did not realize Barry Switzer had the same assessment. I missed that. I'm not a fan of his but regardless it doesn't matter. It just seems to make the most sense at this point. Like I stated, I'm probably missing the obvious...........I feel terrible for the PSU alumni. I wouldn't wish this on any school. MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Abuse victim: I can't seem to recover from this trauma I experienced 15 years ago. I'm was suicidal, now I drink too much and abuse drugs. No amount of help seems to work.
Counselor: Have you read about the Holocaust? Boy those guys really had it rough. You should be thankful that you weren't alive then!
Victim: Thanks, but that really doesn't help. Pretty depressing actually.
Counselor: Ever see someone take a header off a 12 story building? I can try to set that up for you if you think it will make you feel better.
Victim: Not really my cup of tea, thanks.
Counselor: Have you had any contact with Michael Jackson?
Victim: Uh, no.
Counselor: Have you tried talking to your parish priest?
Victim: Yes but he is always busy teaching young boys wrestling moves. Gives me flashbacks for some reason.
Counselor: Where are your parents in all this?
Victim: Now that's a silly question Dad!
Counselor: Sit down son. Let me tell you a story about a guy named Joe...Joe McCarthy.
<< <i>Stevek, Not silly at all. It is quite logical based on the flow of your arguments thus far.
You don't have any issue whatsoever implying that anyone against Paterno must love a suspected pedophile (Michael Jackson).
Anyways I am done responding to you. Anyone that would insult those that disagree with them by implying they were supporters of a suspected pedophile while discussing the Penn State scandal is a very sick individual and needs help.
Robb >>
Your comments are completely laughable, and I think you're too smart not to know that. You need to get a job as a writer on CNBC with Rachel Maddow or Ed Schultz...that's a compliment...I'm telling ya...your writing style would right it with their wild and wacky spins...and they'd pay you a lot of money to do it...check it out and let us know how ya made out.
But come on now...what's going on here about being done? I don't like being dumped. Can't we still be friends? LOL
<< <i>Abuse victim: I can't seem to recover from this trauma I experienced 15 years ago. I'm was suicidal, now I drink too much and abuse drugs. No amount of help seems to work.
Counselor: Have you read about the Holocaust? Boy those guys really had it rough. You should be thankful that you weren't alive then!
Victim: Thanks, but that really doesn't help. Pretty depressing actually.
Counselor: Ever see someone take a header off a 12 story building? I can try to set that up for you if you think it will make you feel better.
Victim: Not really my cup of tea, thanks.
Counselor: Have you had any contact with Michael Jackson?
Victim: Uh, no.
Counselor: Have you tried talking to your parish priest?
Victim: Yes but he is always busy teaching young boys wrestling moves. Gives me flashbacks for some reason.
Counselor: Where are your parents in all this?
Victim: Now that's a silly question Dad!
Counselor: Sit down son. Let me tell you a story about a guy named Joe...Joe McCarthy. >>
The only thing I'm worried about is Joe because i hear he's a poor mountainer, barely kept his family fed.
Keith - you're a very intelligent guy and I think it would be interesting to hear your viewpoints, but I guess you're content with being a heckler, and that's okay, if that's what you enjoy doing, more power to ya.
Edm - I agree. I'm pi**ed too about this and my comment wasn't directed at anyone on this board. It was towards the country as a whole. The rage and hatred only lead to more violence that we all agree is not the answer here. Keeping it in the news as a way to end this kind of crap I'm all for it. Telling everyone if PSU has a game there will be riot and Nebraska fans aren't safe is BS. Not sure what that accomplishes. Tell them to stay home if you're that concerned.
Also, if it comes out JoePa was more involved than the GJ report says I'd be the first to throw a rope in a tree for him or anyone.
I live near SC and the rumors around here about the number of people that may be involved and the positions they hold is unimaginable. The sooner this gets in court and finds all of those responsible the better.
Stevek, Since you begged so nicely I'll maintain the friendship. LOL
So what exactly do you mean with this quote?
We should take a poll of the haters of Joe Paterno...I imagine the majority of them simply adore Michael Jackson, because Michael is cool, right? LOL
and this one
.listening to their Michael Jackson records, right? But oh no, Michael was okay, right? Don't say anything bad about Michael.
Not sure how you decided to included Michael Jackson, maybe a personal fetish or something, in the discussion. I obviously have my own thoughts but figured why not have you clarify yours. Every now and then you actually write a coherent post...and I mean that as a compliment.
<< <i>Stevek, Since you begged so nicely I'll maintain the friendship. LOL
So what exactly do you mean with this quote?
We should take a poll of the haters of Joe Paterno...I imagine the majority of them simply adore Michael Jackson, because Michael is cool, right? LOL
Of course it's not everyone, but presuming the Paterno haters are mostly on the left, they would be more inclined to adore Michael Jackson and accept the deviant lifestyle which he led. Everybody knows about Michael Jackson - enough said.
and this one
.listening to their Michael Jackson records, right? But oh no, Michael was okay, right? Don't say anything bad about Michael.
The left certainly tolerated Michael Jackson's deviant lifestyle...yet Joe Paterno gets fired and disgraced, and bashed beyond belief by the left. That is sheer hypocrisy in my opinion.
Not sure how you decided to included Michael Jackson, maybe a personal fetish or something, in the discussion. I obviously have my own thoughts but figured why not have you clarify yours. Every now and then you actually write a coherent post...and I mean that as a compliment.
Robb >>
I chose Michael Jackson because we all know his history with children, and perhaps you may not find that repugnant, but I do, So I felt like his personal history was on topic for the thread as well as throwing a zinger to the left. You asked me so I told ya, but that's it because any further explanation could be considered political, and that is not allowed on the CU forum.
<< <i>[The facts are clear that Jopa knew from McQuery that Sandusky was doing inappropriate acts in the shower. He went to the president about it. Jopa did what was legally required of him. He will be innocent in a court of law.[
While that may be correct in the letter of the law (and that remains to be seen), his actions were morally reprehensible and hypocritical for a man who esposed and expected such high moral behavior from the young men he coached. >>
Totally agree, its beyond me how anyone who is aware of child abuse in any form can simply report it and feel that they did their part and look away, the right thing to do is physically attack the person and kick and scream until the whole world hears it and actions are made on the spot.
And enough of the "JoePa" the guy is a POS he should be reffered to as "Paterno" he lost the right to be called something that resembles a cuddly respectable old man the way I see it.
One other thing I feel should be mentioned is what parent in his/her right mind allows a child to hang around in a Lockeroom of any sort or have adult friends that are not close relatives?
<< <i>The whole program is intertwined with Paterno and Sandusky disciples. The board may need to cancel football for 2 years to rid the program of "beneovlant dictatorship" culture loyal to Paterno.
At the very least, the NCAA should allow the player to transfer to other schools without any penalty on eligibility. >>
But what about the players who dreamed of going to Penn State and won't take anything less? Remember, Rudy's dream was not to play for any ol' school; he wanted to play for Notre Dame and wouldn't take anything less. Just like how I wanted to go to the very best in-state school possible (my grades/ACT score wasn't nearly enough to go to place like Harvard or whatnot; though that would've been an AWESOME experience) and wouldn't not accept anything less (even though my mother wanted me to go to Murray or Western or some other regional university closer by and even had the nerve to tell me I only wanted to go to UK because of the basketball team!!).
The bottom line is, why should the players who had nothing to do with any of this be punished?
<< <i>The whole program is intertwined with Paterno and Sandusky disciples. The board may need to cancel football for 2 years to rid the program of "beneovlant dictatorship" culture loyal to Paterno.
At the very least, the NCAA should allow the player to transfer to other schools without any penalty on eligibility. >>
But what about the players who dreamed of going to Penn State and won't take anything less? Remember, Rudy's dream was not to play for any ol' school; he wanted to play for Notre Dame and wouldn't take anything less. Just like how I wanted to go to the very best in-state school possible (my grades/ACT score wasn't nearly enough to go to place like Harvard or whatnot; though that would've been an AWESOME experience) and wouldn't not accept anything less (even though my mother wanted me to go to Murray or Western or some other regional university closer by and even had the nerve to tell me I only wanted to go to UK because of the basketball team!!).
The bottom line is, why should the players who had nothing to do with any of this be punished? >>
Tell them to ask their ex coach...it could have ended years ago if Paterno resembled ANYTHING that people proclaimed him to be, or anything he espoused falsely to the players.
<< <i>The more I read and the more I learn, the more I am thinking that MJ's assessment is the same as Barry Switzer's assessment and that both of them are dead on right. This smells from the top down to the bottom. PSU needs to clean house and defumigate and start fresh with people that have no association with Paterno, PSU, or anything that is even close to this situation.
Sam >>
I respect you and MJ for your opinions, but Barry Switzer was one of the most crooked coaches in the history of OU. He knowingly violated NCAA rules, and now he is acting as judge and jury ? Then again, perhaps because he's so experienced at cover ups, he can smell one a mile away. >>
And that's all he did - pass on what he believed happened based on his experience. IOW, a coach who ran a rotten program can see all the signs here. Where does he pass judgement? Nowhere; he merely weighs in on what he believes the situation was based on his sordid experience.
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McQueary placed on indefinite leave....it's about fuggin time!
Also heard that cinder blocks were thrown through Jerry Sandusky's home windows! I love it! I hope it only gets worse for him...sitting, trapped in that house!
<< <i>McQueary placed on indefinite leave....it's about fuggin time!
Also heard that cinder blocks were thrown through Jerry Sandusky's home windows! I love it! I hope it only gets worse for him...sitting, trapped in that house! >>
If he is in the house with his wife and/or other family members then I do NOT love it. I am sure his family has been hurt enough by his sick sick actions. HOWEVER, if someone wanted to throw a cinder block AT HIM then I am all for it.
STAY HEALTHY!
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
The ugliness of people is really starting to annoy me with this story.
First it's the hypocritical bloggers, radio hosts, TV analysts, message board posters joyfully shredding Paterno. It's like Tiger Woods 2009 all over again, the sharks are in the water. These people have somehow convinced themselves that they are the morality police, ignoring any past sins that they may have committed, and fooling themselves into thinking they absolutely would have acted differently if in Paterno's shoes, when they can't possibly comprehend the parameters around which Paterno's actions were centered. It's easy to sit on your couch after the fact and criticize someone else's actions (or non-actions in this case), when the past is all laid out in front of you. It's a whole different story when you are living in the moment.
Somebody quoted A Few Good Men earlier....I like this quote from Colonel Jessup during his final monologue as a better analogy...."I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom."
There are a few parallels between Colonel Jessup and Paterno. Both spent a life defending something, and were well decorated in doing so. Both were very well respected. And both made a single decision that ended with tragic consequences for others that were not strong enough to protect themselves.
Those parents didn't know it was going on...but Paterno did!! Yet you seek the parents or orphanages to have stopped it??
Your search for people that could have EASILY put an end to it starts and ends with one man...Paterno! He had the knowledge of it, it was HIS friend who was doing it, and it was in his house where it was being done! >>
See now you're just being very silly with your first remark.
But you're right, the parents didn't know what was going on...but my point is to give parents the education, knowledge and training to know what's going on...hope you see what I'm saying...i thought you'd like this point...providing parents with ideas about the problem so that we can all combat the problem...it's gonna take a team effort to stop these walking disease predators...but if you still disagree I guess there's nothing I can say about it...and you can go ahead and call me another dirty name. >>
Or, if you are the guy in charge of a program, and you know your friend is raping kids in your facilities...you go to the ends of the earth to make sure that guy is never seen on campus again and goes to jail
"Not on my watch!" >>
notice he conveniently avoids responding to that part, he'd rather turn it into some political issue and defend his crusty POS hero Paterno. Just idiotic.
The ugliness of people is really starting to annoy me with this story.
First it's the hypocritical bloggers, radio hosts, TV analysts, message board posters joyfully shredding Paterno. It's like Tiger Woods 2009 all over again, the sharks are in the water. These people have somehow convinced themselves that they are the morality police, ignoring any past sins that they may have committed, and fooling themselves into thinking they absolutely would have acted differently if in Paterno's shoes, when they can't possibly comprehend the parameters around which Paterno's actions were centered. It's easy to sit on your couch after the fact and criticize someone else's actions (or non-actions in this case), when the past is all laid out in front of you. It's a whole different story when you are living in the moment. . >>
I think it's sad too. But I also think it's sad when people attacked Clinton over the Monica thing, and Bush over the weapons thing. I just don't like it when people attack others who are just trying to do the best job they can. Jopa fits in the class of someone who over the years did a great job. He perhaps could of done a little bit more in this situation, but people want to shred him to pieces. I really feel sorry for people like that. There are lots of stone throwers in our society, and there are some posting in this thread.
There are a few parallels between Colonel Jessup and Paterno. Both spent a life defending something, and were well decorated in doing so. Both were very well respected. And both made a single decision that ended with tragic consequences for others that were not strong enough to protect themselves. >>
Great parallel. Jessup was a heroic figure until he lost track of the underlying humanity side of his responsibilities.
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The ugliness of people is really starting to annoy me with this story.
First it's the hypocritical bloggers, radio hosts, TV analysts, message board posters joyfully shredding Paterno. It's like Tiger Woods 2009 all over again, the sharks are in the water. These people have somehow convinced themselves that they are the morality police, ignoring any past sins that they may have committed, and fooling themselves into thinking they absolutely would have acted differently if in Paterno's shoes, when they can't possibly comprehend the parameters around which Paterno's actions were centered. It's easy to sit on your couch after the fact and criticize someone else's actions (or non-actions in this case), when the past is all laid out in front of you. It's a whole different story when you are living in the moment. . >>
I think it's sad too. But I also think it's sad when people attacked Clinton over the Monica thing, and Bush over the weapons thing. I just don't like it when people attack others who are just trying to do the best job they can. Jopa fits in the class of someone who over the years did a great job. He perhaps could of done a little bit more in this situation, but people want to shred him to pieces. I really feel sorry for people like that. There are lots of stone throwers in our society, and there are some posting in this thread. >>
If it was a child of yours that was effected by this guy you would be calling for his head on a platter gimme a freakin break
<< <i> If it was a child of yours that was effected by this guy you would be calling for his head on a platter gimme a freakin break >>
No child of mine would ever hang out with a strange man. He would be next to his dad and mom, where he belongs. So take your freakin break somewhere else. I love my children, and would never leave them with anyone else. I trust no one.
I don't think you know all the facts about Paterno, so let me enlighten you............
According to the grand jury report, McQueary "reported what he had seen" to Paterno the next day, and Paterno then spoke to Curley.
McQueary was also called to a separate meeting with Curley and Schultz. Schultz, in turn, notified university president Graham Spanier.
Curley and Schultz -- as well as Paterno -- testified they were told that Sandusky behaved inappropriately in that 2002 incident, but not to the extent of McQueary's graphic account to the grand jury.
Comments
<< <i>There's a movie quote that seems apropos to this situatuion as it pertains to Paterno et.al.
In the movie "A Few Good Men"... after the trial ends and the two Marines defended by Tom Cruise's character are cleared of murder but still are given dishonorable discharges...
One Marine looks to the other and says..."What did we do wrong? We did nothing wrong."
The other replies-"Yeah, we did. We were supposed to fight for the people who couldn't fight for themselves. " >>
The public seems basically about split on this nationwide...nationwide might lean a bit more to the anti-Paterno side.
"Everybody" on your side wants to pile on Paterno, and that's your prerogative. What about the parents of these kids? Where were they? If the kids were orphans, what about the orphanage responsibilities? Parents and guardians for years usually ask their kids when the parents and guardians know their kids were out with a non-family member, if they were touched in any inappropriate places. How about the parents and guardians responsibility? A kid is out with a boy scout adult, I would imagine when the child gets home that almost every kid gets asked if the adult touched him/her somewhere on their body and to point to where they were touched.
Yea, Joe Paterno is the easy target for the haters...and they're like feasting piranhas having a grand old time eating up an old man...listening to their Michael Jackson records, right? But oh no, Michael was okay, right? Don't say anything bad about Michael.
<< <i>
<< <i>Edmund and SteveK,
It is obvious that you will never understand why Paterno was fired(or needed to be fired and have his character put into question)...I guess it is a good thing you are not in decision making positions where other people are greatly affected by your decisions. >>
It's also obvious to Franco Harris, and millions of other people too. Jopa did not know what we now know, reported what he did know to an authority, and did not commit any crime, nor is being charged for one. How in God's name can someone be fired for doing what he was
trained to do ? He did absolutely 100% what educators are trained to do. He reported it to his superior. His superior dropped
the ball on this one. >>
I feel the need to repost my quote above here....
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<< <i>
<< <i>There's a movie quote that seems apropos to this situatuion as it pertains to Paterno et.al.
In the movie "A Few Good Men"... after the trial ends and the two Marines defended by Tom Cruise's character are cleared of murder but still are given dishonorable discharges...
One Marine looks to the other and says..."What did we do wrong? We did nothing wrong."
The other replies-"Yeah, we did. We were supposed to fight for the people who couldn't fight for themselves. " >>
The public seems basically about split on this nationwide...nationwide might lean a bit more to the anti-Paterno side.
"Everybody" on your side wants to pile on Paterno, and that's your prerogative. What about the parents of these kids? Where were they? If the kids were orphans, what about the orphange responsibilities? Parents and guardians for years usually ask their kids when the parents and guardians know their kids were out with a non-family member, if they were touched in any inappropriate places. How about the parents and guardians responsibility? A kid is out with a bot scout adult, I would imagine when vhe gets home that almost every kid gets asked if the adult touched him somewhere and to point to where he was touched.
Yea, Joe Paterno is the easy target for the haters...and they're like feasting piranhas having a grand old time eating up an old man...listening to their Michael Jackson records, right? But oh no, Michael was okay, right? Don't say anything bad about Michael. >>
And yet another example as to why stevek is a POS with the attempt to blame the parents. What a scumbag POS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oCCnxBos10&feature=artistob&playnext=1&list=TLG1ASYHLzmO4
For the apologists,
You have all lauded Paterno for being a great man, praisng his integrity, strive for excellence, putting others above yourself, thoroughness, inspiring people to strive for the best and not settle for mediocrity, and more.
Had this been on another campus, you guys would be on here saying, no way something like this would ever happen on Paterno's campus. He would personally lead that scumbag out the door to make sure his face is never seen on campus again...because that is how great men act.
He failed...and it wasn't just a simple NCAA infraction failure...he failed the kids.
Only people who don't see it are the biased ones, or the knuckle draggers.
Did you guys ever hear of the phrase, "follow up"?
<< <i>[Q"Everybody" on your side wants to pile on Paterno, and that's your prerogative. What about the parents of these kids? Where were they? If the kids were orphans, what about the orphange responsibilities? Parents and guardians for years usually ask their kids when the parents and guardians know their kids were out with a non-family member, if they were touched in any inappropriate places. How about the parents and guardians responsibility? A kid is out with a bot scout adult, I would imagine when vhe gets home that almost every kid gets asked if the adult touched him somewhere and to point to where he was touched.
. >>
SteveK, you are POS.
Put that quote on your hero Paterno you moron!
PATERNO should have been saying to his friend, "what the he@ll are you bringing kids around campus for and having them sleep by your house, especially after that 1998 incident? Then you have the nerve to fondle one of them in our shower facility?! Pack your bags and turn yourself in you piece of garbage, or I am going straight to the cops right now!! I don't ever want to see you around here again!!"
Instead he sheepishly reported it to his 'superior' and when nothing was done he breathed a sigh of relief, instead of following up on it to make sure a piece of child molesting garbage could no longer hurt kids on his facilities!
<< <i>
<< <i>[Q"Everybody" on your side wants to pile on Paterno, and that's your prerogative. What about the parents of these kids? Where were they? If the kids were orphans, what about the orphange responsibilities? Parents and guardians for years usually ask their kids when the parents and guardians know their kids were out with a non-family member, if they were touched in any inappropriate places. How about the parents and guardians responsibility? A kid is out with a bot scout adult, I would imagine when vhe gets home that almost every kid gets asked if the adult touched him somewhere and to point to where he was touched.
. >>
SteveK, you are POS.
Put that quote on your hero Paterno you moron!
PATERNO should have been saying to his friend, "what the he@ll are you bringing kids around campus for and having them sleep by your house, especially after that 1998 incident? Then you have the nerve to fondle one of them in our shower facility?! Pack your bags and turn yourself in you piece of garbage, or I am going straight to the cops right now!! I don't ever want to see you around here again!!"
Instead he sheepishly reported it to his 'superior' and when nothing was done he breathed a sigh of relief, instead of following up on it to make sure a piece of child molesting garbage could no longer hurt kids on his facilities! >>
You didn't answer my rhetorical questions...you ignored them because you know I'm right. Any parent or the orphanage, I don't know the history of these kids...with a little effort could have put a stop to this very early.
When those on a certain side want to abdicate parental responsibility and give the power and responsibility of raising their kids to the state...whether it's Paterno's fault or not doesn't matter at all with the point of my post. The parents and guardians were much more responsible for not being vigilant about a pervasive problem in situations regarding strangers and children.
My parents taught me to never talk to strangers. What are today's parents teaching their children?
Saberman, I know you're not stupid...changing the system at Penn State will help with the problem, but it won't solve the problem...parents being vigilant and not being complacent about possible child molestation with strangers who they hand off their kids to each day, should be a mandatory lesson for parents to learn.
Why don't you blame the kids while you are at it.
Those parents didn't know it was going on...but Paterno did!! Yet you seek the parents or orphanages to have stopped it??
Your search for people that could have EASILY put an end to it starts and ends with one man...Paterno! He had the knowledge of it, it was HIS friend who was doing it, and it was in his house where it was being done!
a) Sandusky rapes little boys while at PSU
b) Sandusky is confronted by authorities and PSU
c) Penn St decides that a cover up is in the best interest of the program. Police and program cover up
d) Sandusky now realizes that he has Penn State by the nads and they will do anything to keep this quiet. He is in the proverbial cat bird seat
Shampoo, lather, rinse, repeat until all the sh*t hits the fan in 2010 when the grand jury happens. I believe that PSU has a tidal wave of cr@p coming its way and will be knock down to it's foundation. History will be very unkind on Joe Paterno and I have zero problem with that.
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Criminals usually gravitate towards the weakest link or if there is no link. Just like a "neighborhood watch" sign in a neighborhood could deter thieves...perhaps a potential predator knowing the child has vigilant parents, will help him to keep his pervert urges to himself.
Yes, that is passing the problem to the weakest link and the predator may strike sooner or later anyway, but even when he does strike, a knowledgeable parent can help with this fight against these diseased criminals. If the parent senses a problem but the kid doesn't wish to speak about it, then a good counselor should get involved who will hopefully know how to tactically get the information from the child, and hopefully these child predators can be stopped early in their criminal activity.
At the very least, the NCAA should allow the player to transfer to other schools without any penalty on eligibility.
That video was well put.
...and stevek continues to wear blinders to his hero...the one man who really was in position to stop his friend from raping kids, yet turned a blind eye instead, and in essence was an enabler.
Justacommeman, that sounds like a very plausible scenario. Paterno and CO know they have a child rapist on their campus. They can't be that evil and think that it is ok to have a chid rapist on their campus...but since they didn't do anything about it the first time, they can't now, because then they will be axed for failure to do anything the first time.
For all the morons who are aghast that this is tearing down Paterno's legacy. It isn't tearing anything down...it is a simple reassessment. He was hailed in the past as a great man. This scandal has proven without a doubt that he does not deserve such accolades!
<< <i>SteveK,
Why don't you blame the kids while you are at it.
Those parents didn't know it was going on...but Paterno did!! Yet you seek the parents or orphanages to have stopped it??
Your search for people that could have EASILY put an end to it starts and ends with one man...Paterno! He had the knowledge of it, it was HIS friend who was doing it, and it was in his house where it was being done! >>
See now you're just being very silly with your first remark.
But you're right, the parents didn't know what was going on...but my point is to give parents the education, knowledge and training to know what's going on...hope you see what I'm saying...i thought you'd like this point...providing parents with ideas about the problem so that we can all combat the problem...it's gonna take a team effort to stop these walking disease predators...but if you still disagree I guess there's nothing I can say about it...and you can go ahead and call me another dirty name.
<< <i>
<< <i>SteveK,
Why don't you blame the kids while you are at it.
Those parents didn't know it was going on...but Paterno did!! Yet you seek the parents or orphanages to have stopped it??
Your search for people that could have EASILY put an end to it starts and ends with one man...Paterno! He had the knowledge of it, it was HIS friend who was doing it, and it was in his house where it was being done! >>
See now you're just being very silly with your first remark.
But you're right, the parents didn't know what was going on...but my point is to give parents the education, knowledge and training to know what's going on...hope you see what I'm saying...i thought you'd like this point...providing parents with ideas about the problem so that we can all combat the problem...it's gonna take a team effort to stop these walking disease predators...but if you still disagree I guess there's nothing I can say about it...and you can go ahead and call me another dirty name. >>
Or, if you are the guy in charge of a program, and you know your friend is raping kids in your facilities...you go to the ends of the earth to make sure that guy is never seen on campus again and goes to jail
"Not on my watch!"
Please stop deciding you actually know anything about those that disagree with you simply because they do not agree. Since you have already brought up the Holocaust, McCarthy, the evils of gambling, Michael Jackson (do you always attack those that disagree with you?), the liberal media conspiracy and bad parenting I can only imagine that next you will start attacking the victims. Apparently no low is too low when you decide your hero is being vilified.
A friend of mine was abused when we were in middle school. He never said anything to anyone until after his abuser was caught in the act. He had loving parents but he was too ashamed and too afraid to say anything to them. My friend ended up talking his own life after college. I don't know if he would have been suicidal without the abuse but I certainly know it didn't help and neither did all the counseling he received after. So I know exactly what I would have done in Paterno's shoes.
You seemed like a passionate jerk but with your Micheal Jackson comment I realize you are just a complete as*h***.
Robb
<< <i>The more I think about it I believe it could have actually went down like this:
a) Sandusky rapes little boys while at PSU
b) Sandusky is confronted by authorities and PSU
c) Penn St decides that a cover up is in the best interest of the program. Police and program cover up
d) Sandusky now realizes that he has Penn State by the nads and they will do anything to keep this quiet. He is in the proverbial cat bird seat
Shampoo, lather, rinse, repeat until all the sh*t hits the fan in 2010 when the grand jury happens. I believe that PSU has a tidal wave of cr@p coming its way and will be knock down to it's foundation. History will be very unkind on Joe Paterno and I have zero problem with that.
MJ >>
If your thesis is true MJ, then Sandusky doesn't live past this Christmas, as well as anyone else with incriminating evidence
towards Penn State or Joe Paterno. I suspect there will be some police "transfers" (with possible huge amounts of cash),
there will be some fired staff (who will get huge amounts of cash), and Sandusky will die (perhaps of a heart attack says the
coroner), but there will be an ounce of cyanide mixed in his drink.
If the university tried to sweep this under the rug, then there will be a lot of "strange" things happening in the next six months.
I'm sure Sandusky has already been given the choice (by some strange individual) of suicide, or driving off a cliff. Of course I'm only guessing, but I wouldn't be suprised if that message has yet to be relayed to him.
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>
<< <i>There's a movie quote that seems apropos to this situatuion as it pertains to Paterno et.al.
In the movie "A Few Good Men"... after the trial ends and the two Marines defended by Tom Cruise's character are cleared of murder but still are given dishonorable discharges...
One Marine looks to the other and says..."What did we do wrong? We did nothing wrong."
The other replies-"Yeah, we did. We were supposed to fight for the people who couldn't fight for themselves. " >>
The public seems basically about split on this nationwide...nationwide might lean a bit more to the anti-Paterno side.
"Everybody" on your side wants to pile on Paterno, and that's your prerogative. What about the parents of these kids? Where were they? If the kids were orphans, what about the orphange responsibilities? Parents and
guardians for years usually ask their kids when the parents and guardians know their kids were out with a non-family member, if they were touched in any inappropriate places. How about the parents and guardians
responsibility? A kid is out with a bot scout adult, I would imagine when vhe gets home that almost every kid gets asked if the adult touched him somewhere and to point to where he was touched.
Yea, Joe Paterno is the easy target for the haters...and they're like feasting piranhas having a grand old time eating up an old man...listening to their Michael Jackson records, right? But oh no, Michael was okay, right? Don't say anything bad about Michael. >>
Sigh. It seems the Penn State faithful just don't get it and want to try to use silly non-applicable analogies to try to deflect the point.
Though I've no doubt you'll deny it, you are quite obviously taking this on some level as a personal affront simply because you went to Penn State. I understand the concept of school pride- but I can't believe the absolutely blind devotion to someone who in this instance doesn't really have it coming.
Oh, and as an aside-for the record I think Michael Jackson was scum, much on the same level with Sandusky- perhaps worse, because he bought his way out of being prosecuted. He's where he belongs now imo. Please don't presume to know who or what I am, my politics or how I think. You'd be wrong on all counts.
I don't want to "pile on" Paterno. I'm not even that much of a college football fan so I have had no beef with him prior to this. (I went to Bradley...basketball's our thing).
On one level I feel a bit bad for him because I'm sure that in his own mind, he thinks he is being unfairly treated. But I and other people who aren't biased see this for what it is... a failure (by Paterno and several others) to do simple followup on something that should have been aggressively pursued and settled years ago. And if you really think "millions" of people agree with your viewpoints on this, then you are truly drinking much too deeply from the Joe Pa koolaid dispenser.
Two words... DUE DILIGENCE. No one did any, including Saint Joe. As the face of the program, and the guy who has the most to lose if there's a scandal... if I'm him I make damned sure there's nothing to any allegations before Sandusky goes anywhere near a kid again.
This was his golden opportunity to at least help eradicate a scumbag from free society, protect the program and the school, and most importantly, prevent future kids from being harmed...and he would have been hailed as a hero for doing so, thus preserving his "legacy". But no one did anything substantive! Suggest re-reading the allegations and statements about the victims from the link above without the blue and white filter.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
If I had a son at Penn State, I would ask him to consider the victims and their families. Play the game if you want, but please...do NOT play if your heart tells you not to.
I would like to think that I would have raised him the right way and he would not participate.
Sam
<< <i>Stevek,
Please stop deciding you actually know anything about those that disagree with you simply because they do not agree. Since you have already brought up the Holocaust, McCarthy, the evils of gambling, Michael Jackson (do you always attack those that disagree with you?), the liberal media conspiracy and bad parenting I can only imagine that next you will start attacking the victims. Apparently no low is too low when you decide your hero is being vilified.
A friend of mine was abused when we were in middle school. He never said anything to anyone until after his abuser was caught in the act. He had loving parents but he was too ashamed and too afraid to say anything to them. My friend ended up talking his own life after college. I don't know if he would have been suicidal without the abuse but I certainly know it didn't help and neither did all the counseling he received after. So I know exactly what I would have done in Paterno's shoes.
You seemed like a passionate jerk but with your Micheal Jackson comment I realize you are just a complete as*h***.
Robb >>
Sorry to hear about your friend. There are some bad counselors out there...for those who want to learn from your post, it's important, I believe, to hire a counselor specifically trained in the exact problem that needs to be addressed...and better yet, a counselor who was a victim of child abuse who has the desire to help others...that tells me it's not just about the money to them, that they will truly care about their patients.
You muddled my points in your first paragraph to make an extremely silly point, and I couldn't care less...but your dam right I talk about the evils of gambling...here, only when it's on topic to a thread or post and try not to belabor it. This may surprise you...I'm not against gambling in the true sense of the word...I'm not for a nanny state...I say create awareness about the addiction, and then if people want to gamble at least they have an informed choice, and Gary Loveman who you probably know, has had many commercials on TV with a similar message although my message is much stronger. The information I have written about gambling was primarily against exploitation of gamblers, which I didn't like when I was gambling and I certainly don't like that now. You're probably a poker player? Talk poker all ya want, play poker all ya want...that's fine by me, I've got nothing whatsoever against poker or poker players, and I've stated that numerous times - it's the exploitation that ticks me off and if you don't see the exploitation of underage children in online poker, which I mentioned a few posts back, then you don't wanna see. That's all.
<< <i>SteveK,
Why don't you blame the kids while you are at it.
Those parents didn't know it was going on...but Paterno did!! Yet you seek the parents or orphanages to have stopped it??
Your search for people that could have EASILY put an end to it starts and ends with one man...Paterno! He had the knowledge of it, it was HIS friend who was doing it, and it was in his house where it was being done! >>
That's incorrect. At least one parent knew it was going on in 1998, but the legal system failed her. Unsure why any parent would accept that answer knowing they were right about their child.
I'll wait for all the facts to come out before I pass judgment on anyone. I'm diehard Penn State, but I'm very disappointed in Penn State with what I have read so far. After the defense presents there side this will get a lot worse for most and maybe better for others? I pray for the victims and that this doesn't happen to anyone else, but sadly it goes on everywhere in the world and there are cowards that turn away instead of helping.
I vote for cancelling the last two games on the road for fear of safety for the players. Ohio State and Wisconsin won't be kind to these innocent kids. We have a legal system that will get it right this time and justice will be served.
The media and everyone need to calm the hell down. They have people more fired up than we were for 9-11.
<< <i>The more I read and the more I learn, the more I am thinking that MJ's assessment is the same as Barry Switzer's assessment and that both of them are dead on right. This smells from the top down to the bottom. PSU needs to clean house and defumigate and start fresh with people that have no association with Paterno, PSU, or anything that is even close to this situation.
Sam >>
I respect you and MJ for your opinions, but Barry Switzer was one of the most crooked coaches in the history of OU.
He knowingly violated NCAA rules, and now he is acting as judge and jury ? Then again, perhaps because he's so experienced
at cover ups, he can smell one a mile away.
<< <i>
The media and everyone need to calm the hell down. They have people more fired up than we were for 9-11. >>
I'm sorry your school is caught in the middle of something really, really bad because of this Sandusky clown, but
I must say that America has the right to be as fired up about this as 9/11.
We have a university and police department that allowed this Sandusky to do horrible things to kids.
Now, I believe Sandusky is the focus of our hatred, and we can be disappointed with the university president for
dropping the ball, but we can't have major institutions acting like this in America.
Do you have children ? Every parent gets enraged when they hear about children getting victimized by predators.
It is a sin of the worst kind, and we should be as mad as we were on 9/11.
Alabama and LSU should play again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not silly at all. It is quite logical based on the flow of your arguments thus far.
You don't have any issue whatsoever implying that anyone against Paterno must love a suspected pedophile (Michael Jackson).
Anyways I am done responding to you. Anyone that would insult those that disagree with them by implying they were supporters of a suspected pedophile while discussing the Penn State scandal is a very sick individual and needs help.
Robb
<< <i>
<< <i>The more I read and the more I learn, the more I am thinking that MJ's assessment is the same as Barry Switzer's assessment and that both of them are dead on right. This smells from the top down to the bottom. PSU needs to clean house and defumigate and start fresh with people that have no association with Paterno, PSU, or anything that is even close to this situation.
Sam >>
I respect you and MJ for your opinions, but Barry Switzer was one of the most crooked coaches in the history of OU.
He knowingly violated NCAA rules, and now he is acting as judge and jury ? Then again, perhaps because he's so experienced
at cover ups, he can smell one a mile away. >>
I did not realize Barry Switzer had the same assessment. I missed that. I'm not a fan of his but regardless it doesn't matter. It just seems to make the most sense at this point. Like I stated, I'm probably missing the obvious...........I feel terrible for the PSU alumni. I wouldn't wish this on any school. MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Abuse victim: I can't seem to recover from this trauma I experienced 15 years ago. I'm was suicidal, now I drink too much and abuse drugs. No amount of help seems to work.
Counselor: Have you read about the Holocaust? Boy those guys really had it rough. You should be thankful that you weren't alive then!
Victim: Thanks, but that really doesn't help. Pretty depressing actually.
Counselor: Ever see someone take a header off a 12 story building? I can try to set that up for you if you think it will make you feel better.
Victim: Not really my cup of tea, thanks.
Counselor: Have you had any contact with Michael Jackson?
Victim: Uh, no.
Counselor: Have you tried talking to your parish priest?
Victim: Yes but he is always busy teaching young boys wrestling moves. Gives me flashbacks for some reason.
Counselor: Where are your parents in all this?
Victim: Now that's a silly question Dad!
Counselor: Sit down son. Let me tell you a story about a guy named Joe...Joe McCarthy.
<< <i>Stevek,
Not silly at all. It is quite logical based on the flow of your arguments thus far.
You don't have any issue whatsoever implying that anyone against Paterno must love a suspected pedophile (Michael Jackson).
Anyways I am done responding to you. Anyone that would insult those that disagree with them by implying they were supporters of a suspected pedophile while discussing the Penn State scandal is a very sick individual and needs help.
Robb >>
Your comments are completely laughable, and I think you're too smart not to know that. You need to get a job as a writer on CNBC with Rachel Maddow or Ed Schultz...that's a compliment...I'm telling ya...your writing style would right it with their wild and wacky spins...and they'd pay you a lot of money to do it...check it out and let us know how ya made out.
But come on now...what's going on here about being done? I don't like being dumped. Can't we still be friends? LOL
<< <i>Abuse victim: I can't seem to recover from this trauma I experienced 15 years ago. I'm was suicidal, now I drink too much and abuse drugs. No amount of help seems to work.
Counselor: Have you read about the Holocaust? Boy those guys really had it rough. You should be thankful that you weren't alive then!
Victim: Thanks, but that really doesn't help. Pretty depressing actually.
Counselor: Ever see someone take a header off a 12 story building? I can try to set that up for you if you think it will make you feel better.
Victim: Not really my cup of tea, thanks.
Counselor: Have you had any contact with Michael Jackson?
Victim: Uh, no.
Counselor: Have you tried talking to your parish priest?
Victim: Yes but he is always busy teaching young boys wrestling moves. Gives me flashbacks for some reason.
Counselor: Where are your parents in all this?
Victim: Now that's a silly question Dad!
Counselor: Sit down son. Let me tell you a story about a guy named Joe...Joe McCarthy. >>
The only thing I'm worried about is Joe because i hear he's a poor mountainer, barely kept his family fed.
Keith - you're a very intelligent guy and I think it would be interesting to hear your viewpoints, but I guess you're content with being a heckler, and that's okay, if that's what you enjoy doing, more power to ya.
BTW: Good zinger!
<< <i>This all just proves my point on the first page.
Alabama and LSU should play again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>
Not so fast, you are assuming 'Bama wins the Iron Bowl.
Also, if it comes out JoePa was more involved than the GJ report says I'd be the first to throw a rope in a tree for him or anyone.
I live near SC and the rumors around here about the number of people that may be involved and the positions they hold is unimaginable. The sooner this gets in court and finds all of those responsible the better.
Since you begged so nicely I'll maintain the friendship. LOL
So what exactly do you mean with this quote?
We should take a poll of the haters of Joe Paterno...I imagine the majority of them simply adore Michael Jackson, because Michael is cool, right? LOL
and this one
.listening to their Michael Jackson records, right? But oh no, Michael was okay, right? Don't say anything bad about Michael.
Not sure how you decided to included Michael Jackson, maybe a personal fetish or something, in the discussion. I obviously have my own thoughts but figured why not have you clarify yours. Every now and then you actually write a coherent post...and I mean that as a compliment.
Robb
<< <i>Stevek,
Since you begged so nicely I'll maintain the friendship. LOL
So what exactly do you mean with this quote?
We should take a poll of the haters of Joe Paterno...I imagine the majority of them simply adore Michael Jackson, because Michael is cool, right? LOL
Of course it's not everyone, but presuming the Paterno haters are mostly on the left, they would be more inclined to adore Michael Jackson and accept the deviant lifestyle which he led. Everybody knows about Michael Jackson - enough said.
and this one
.listening to their Michael Jackson records, right? But oh no, Michael was okay, right? Don't say anything bad about Michael.
The left certainly tolerated Michael Jackson's deviant lifestyle...yet Joe Paterno gets fired and disgraced, and bashed beyond belief by the left. That is sheer hypocrisy in my opinion.
Not sure how you decided to included Michael Jackson, maybe a personal fetish or something, in the discussion. I obviously have my own thoughts but figured why not have you clarify yours. Every now and then you actually write a coherent post...and I mean that as a compliment.
Robb >>
I chose Michael Jackson because we all know his history with children, and perhaps you may not find that repugnant, but I do, So I felt like his personal history was on topic for the thread as well as throwing a zinger to the left. You asked me so I told ya, but that's it because any further explanation could be considered political, and that is not allowed on the CU forum.
<< <i>[The facts are clear that Jopa knew from McQuery that Sandusky was doing inappropriate acts in the shower. He went
to the president about it. Jopa did what was legally required of him. He will be innocent in a court of law.[
While that may be correct in the letter of the law (and that remains to be seen), his actions were morally reprehensible and hypocritical for a man who esposed and expected such high moral behavior from the young men he coached. >>
Totally agree, its beyond me how anyone who is aware of child abuse in any form can simply report it and feel that they did their part and look away, the right thing to do is physically attack the person and kick and scream until the whole world hears it and actions are made on the spot.
And enough of the "JoePa" the guy is a POS he should be reffered to as "Paterno" he lost the right to be called something that resembles a cuddly respectable old man the way I see it.
One other thing I feel should be mentioned is what parent in his/her right mind allows a child to hang around in a Lockeroom of any sort or have adult friends that are not close relatives?
<< <i>The whole program is intertwined with Paterno and Sandusky disciples. The board may need to cancel football for 2 years to rid the program of "beneovlant dictatorship" culture loyal to Paterno.
At the very least, the NCAA should allow the player to transfer to other schools without any penalty on eligibility. >>
But what about the players who dreamed of going to Penn State and won't take anything less? Remember, Rudy's dream was not to play for any ol' school; he wanted to play for Notre Dame and wouldn't take anything less. Just like how I wanted to go to the very best in-state school possible (my grades/ACT score wasn't nearly enough to go to place like Harvard or whatnot; though that would've been an AWESOME experience) and wouldn't not accept anything less (even though my mother wanted me to go to Murray or Western or some other regional university closer by and even had the nerve to tell me I only wanted to go to UK because of the basketball team!!).
The bottom line is, why should the players who had nothing to do with any of this be punished?
D's: 54S,53P,50P,49S,45D+S,44S,43D,41S,40D+S,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
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74T: 37,38,47,151,193,241,435,570,610,654,655 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
<< <i>
<< <i>The whole program is intertwined with Paterno and Sandusky disciples. The board may need to cancel football for 2 years to rid the program of "beneovlant dictatorship" culture loyal to Paterno.
At the very least, the NCAA should allow the player to transfer to other schools without any penalty on eligibility. >>
But what about the players who dreamed of going to Penn State and won't take anything less? Remember, Rudy's dream was not to play for any ol' school; he wanted to play for Notre Dame and wouldn't take anything less. Just like how I wanted to go to the very best in-state school possible (my grades/ACT score wasn't nearly enough to go to place like Harvard or whatnot; though that would've been an AWESOME experience) and wouldn't not accept anything less (even though my mother wanted me to go to Murray or Western or some other regional university closer by and even had the nerve to tell me I only wanted to go to UK because of the basketball team!!).
The bottom line is, why should the players who had nothing to do with any of this be punished? >>
Tell them to ask their ex coach...it could have ended years ago if Paterno resembled ANYTHING that people proclaimed him to be, or anything he espoused falsely to the players.
That video above asnwers that question too.
Perk, right on.
<< <i>
<< <i>The more I read and the more I learn, the more I am thinking that MJ's assessment is the same as Barry Switzer's assessment and that both of them are dead on right. This smells from the top down to the bottom. PSU needs to clean house and defumigate and start fresh with people that have no association with Paterno, PSU, or anything that is even close to this situation.
Sam >>
I respect you and MJ for your opinions, but Barry Switzer was one of the most crooked coaches in the history of OU.
He knowingly violated NCAA rules, and now he is acting as judge and jury ? Then again, perhaps because he's so experienced
at cover ups, he can smell one a mile away. >>
And that's all he did - pass on what he believed happened based on his experience. IOW, a coach who ran a rotten program can see all the signs here. Where does he pass judgement? Nowhere; he merely weighs in on what he believes the situation was based on his sordid experience.
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
----------------------
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Also heard that cinder blocks were thrown through Jerry Sandusky's home windows! I love it! I hope it only gets worse for him...sitting, trapped in that house!
<< <i>McQueary placed on indefinite leave....it's about fuggin time!
Also heard that cinder blocks were thrown through Jerry Sandusky's home windows! I love it! I hope it only gets worse for him...sitting, trapped in that house! >>
If he is in the house with his wife and/or other family members then I do NOT love it. I am sure his family has been hurt enough by his sick sick actions. HOWEVER, if someone wanted to throw a cinder block AT HIM then I am all for it.
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
The ugliness of people is really starting to annoy me with this story.
First it's the hypocritical bloggers, radio hosts, TV analysts, message board posters joyfully shredding Paterno. It's like Tiger Woods 2009 all over again, the sharks are in the water. These people have somehow convinced themselves that they are the morality police, ignoring any past sins that they may have committed, and fooling themselves into thinking they absolutely would have acted differently if in Paterno's shoes, when they can't possibly comprehend the parameters around which Paterno's actions were centered.
It's easy to sit on your couch after the fact and criticize someone else's actions (or non-actions in this case), when the past is all laid out in front of you. It's a whole different story when you are living in the moment.
Somebody quoted A Few Good Men earlier....I like this quote from Colonel Jessup during his final monologue as a better analogy...."I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom."
There are a few parallels between Colonel Jessup and Paterno. Both spent a life defending something, and were well decorated in doing so. Both were very well respected. And both made a single decision that ended with tragic consequences for others that were not strong enough to protect themselves.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>SteveK,
Why don't you blame the kids while you are at it.
Those parents didn't know it was going on...but Paterno did!! Yet you seek the parents or orphanages to have stopped it??
Your search for people that could have EASILY put an end to it starts and ends with one man...Paterno! He had the knowledge of it, it was HIS friend who was doing it, and it was in his house where it was being done! >>
See now you're just being very silly with your first remark.
But you're right, the parents didn't know what was going on...but my point is to give parents the education, knowledge and training to know what's going on...hope you see what I'm saying...i thought you'd like this point...providing parents with ideas about the problem so that we can all combat the problem...it's gonna take a team effort to stop these walking disease predators...but if you still disagree I guess there's nothing I can say about it...and you can go ahead and call me another dirty name. >>
Or, if you are the guy in charge of a program, and you know your friend is raping kids in your facilities...you go to the ends of the earth to make sure that guy is never seen on campus again and goes to jail
"Not on my watch!" >>
notice he conveniently avoids responding to that part, he'd rather turn it into some political issue and defend his crusty POS hero Paterno. Just idiotic.
<< <i>Well said, D.
The ugliness of people is really starting to annoy me with this story.
First it's the hypocritical bloggers, radio hosts, TV analysts, message board posters joyfully shredding Paterno. It's like Tiger Woods 2009 all over again, the sharks are in the water. These people have somehow convinced themselves that they are the morality police, ignoring any past sins that they may have committed, and fooling themselves into thinking they absolutely would have acted differently if in Paterno's shoes, when they can't possibly comprehend the parameters around which Paterno's actions were centered.
It's easy to sit on your couch after the fact and criticize someone else's actions (or non-actions in this case), when the past is all laid out in front of you. It's a whole different story when you are living in the moment.
. >>
I think it's sad too. But I also think it's sad when people attacked Clinton over the Monica thing, and Bush over the weapons thing.
I just don't like it when people attack others who are just trying to do the best job they can. Jopa fits in the class of someone who
over the years did a great job. He perhaps could of done a little bit more in this situation, but people want to shred him to pieces.
I really feel sorry for people like that. There are lots of stone throwers in our society, and there are some posting in this thread.
<< <i>
There are a few parallels between Colonel Jessup and Paterno. Both spent a life defending something, and were well decorated in doing so. Both were very well respected. And both made a single decision that ended with tragic consequences for others that were not strong enough to protect themselves. >>
Great parallel. Jessup was a heroic figure until he lost track of the underlying humanity side of his responsibilities.
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
----------------------
Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
<< <i>
<< <i>Well said, D.
The ugliness of people is really starting to annoy me with this story.
First it's the hypocritical bloggers, radio hosts, TV analysts, message board posters joyfully shredding Paterno. It's like Tiger Woods 2009 all over again, the sharks are in the water. These people have somehow convinced themselves that they are the morality police, ignoring any past sins that they may have committed, and fooling themselves into thinking they absolutely would have acted differently if in Paterno's shoes, when they can't possibly comprehend the parameters around which Paterno's actions were centered.
It's easy to sit on your couch after the fact and criticize someone else's actions (or non-actions in this case), when the past is all laid out in front of you. It's a whole different story when you are living in the moment.
. >>
I think it's sad too. But I also think it's sad when people attacked Clinton over the Monica thing, and Bush over the weapons thing.
I just don't like it when people attack others who are just trying to do the best job they can. Jopa fits in the class of someone who
over the years did a great job. He perhaps could of done a little bit more in this situation, but people want to shred him to pieces.
I really feel sorry for people like that. There are lots of stone throwers in our society, and there are some posting in this thread. >>
If it was a child of yours that was effected by this guy you would be calling for his head on a platter gimme a freakin break
<< <i>
If it was a child of yours that was effected by this guy you would be calling for his head on a platter gimme a freakin break >>
No child of mine would ever hang out with a strange man. He would be next to his dad and mom, where he belongs.
So take your freakin break somewhere else. I love my children, and would never leave them with anyone else. I trust no one.
I don't think you know all the facts about Paterno, so let me enlighten you............
According to the grand jury report, McQueary "reported what he had seen" to Paterno the next day, and Paterno then spoke to Curley.
McQueary was also called to a separate meeting with Curley and Schultz. Schultz, in turn, notified university president Graham Spanier.
Curley and Schultz -- as well as Paterno -- testified they were told that Sandusky behaved inappropriately in that 2002 incident, but not to the extent of McQueary's graphic account to the grand jury.