In an interesting twist, the first 1,000 or so collections of America The Beautiful 5 Ounce Silver coins have shipped to the American public (the Apmex presales)…who in turn, have placed them on Ebay for ask prices as high as $825,000 a set, a 112,582% markup. The average set has been closing around $3000, or 4x current spot value, making the original 80% markup placed by the original presale on the coins look like a steal. Next time the US Mint decides to price fix and restrict open market practices, it might want to consider their current accomplishment. I discussed this earlier in this story Coinzine's Take on ATB Silver Way to go Moy! Enjoy your new position.
Come see Coinzine's Coin of the Day at http://www.coinzine.net/category/coin-of-the-day/ . Coinzine's looking for contributors! Want to publish your opinions or articles? Contact us at coinzine@coinzine.net
Come see Coinzine's Coin of the Day at http://www.coinzine.net/category/coin-of-the-day/ . Coinzine's looking for contributors! Want to publish your opinions or articles? Contact us at coinzine@coinzine.net
<< <i> Next time the US Mint decides to price fix and restrict open market practices, it might want to consider their current accomplishment.
If the Mint was selling these directly to the public in an open and public format, then it would be an open and free market.
Selling them to only 9 distributors who then turn around and rip off the public with 80% markups is far from a free market.
And selling them under the table while telling the public that they are not yet for sale is even worse.
Welcome, Coinzine. >>
I agree that direct selling by the Mint couldn't have created a worse scenario, and probably would have been better. I hate to speak for coinzine, I dont know him, but I believe he is saying is that the additional rules that were placed on the AP's was counterproductive. I agree again-------------BigE
<< <i>If it's any consolation, at least the little guys are realizing the real profit here.
I don't like little greedy guys any more than big greedy guys. Especially little guys that are hypocrites who complain about greed of others but have no problem with their own.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
I see the Jack Hint website has updated its ATB message with the Dec. 29 date -
NOTICE REGARDING AMERICA THE BEAUTIFUL 5 OZ SILVER COINS
Dec 29th 2010 - JHCB Inc is not selling any 5 oz. ATB coins until we can develop a distribution method that complies with the US Mint's guidelines for these coins.
<< <i>I see the Jack Hint website has updated its ATB message with the Dec. 29 date -
NOTICE REGARDING AMERICA THE BEAUTIFUL 5 OZ SILVER COINS
Dec 29th 2010 - JHCB Inc is not selling any 5 oz. ATB coins until we can develop a distribution method that complies with the US Mint's guidelines for these coins.
Dillon Gage called me yesterday asking for my mailing address.
Are the APs working on some type of control for the one set per HH requirement? >>
Partly so and i guess they are trying to find ways to sell off the best ones to "the public" and in turn this "public" will send off these to be graded for First Strikes.And somehow make its way to the market like Ebay and such and the profits end up quietly in some secret account of theirs.... And say yeah end of January they will sell the ones with nicks and hits to us "The Real Public" and blame the mint for the quality since ..whats their excuse again? Oh we cant sell these to you because we dont have a distribution system in place and besides the US Mint did not provide packaging for these..." My friends i have spoken to another Major Outfit authorized by the US Mint to purchase these directly from them and they said the Exact same thing as per my previous quote.Its a Script they all use i am sure they talk to one another. BUT this particular outfit ALLOWS joe public to walk in to their establishment and they sell them all the Silver and Gold and Platinum that their pockets can afford. So what NO distribution system in place are they talking about.
I just got a very long and well written email from John at MCM explaining their predicament in trying to obtain coins to sell. They will sell only graded pucks and warned about sticker shock.
I don't think it will be much of a shock seeing what the raw beasts are going for right now....as he said this may change once the rest are released but no clue as to a price yet.
I'd like to take this opportunity to update those who are interested in purchasing the National Parks 5 Ounce Silver Coin sets. Many of you have been asking us when we will have them and what the pricing structure will be. In my last letter to you I explained that as the largest online retailer of certified modern coins your expectations of us are very high and the last thing we want to do is to offer a product and then withdraw it, or change the rules concerning purchase and pricing dramatically. For this reason, we have and will continue to proceed with thoughtfullness in every way possible with regard to the offering of these coins.
Because of the low mintage and current demand you may be aware that sales have already taken place in the marketplace between $2000 and as high as $3500 per ungraded or NGC graded "Gem BU" set. While my instinct tells me this is temporary because the supply will soon dramatically increase as distributors start to sell more sets, we must go out and buy sets at far more than I would really like to pay and that will be reflected in the price we charge. Regardless of what the U.S. Mint mandates with regard to distributor pricing, the secondary market where we obtain the coins is the ultimate determinate on real world current prices.
We are doing our best to obtain the product and having some limited success. I estimate that we will have NGC graded Gem BU sets (generally MS65 to MS68 quality, perhaps averaging MS67) along with NGC MS68 and MS69 sets for sale by the third or fourth week of January. We will begin taking non binding pre-order requests on January 4th, however where we normally estimate the price it will simply be labeled as "unknown". By mid January, we will replace "unknown" with estimated prices. MS70 sets may not be offered at all, due to the average quality being estimated at MS67 to MS68. This information is ONLY our best guess.
In setting our prices one factor is obviously cost, but the ability to obtain additional product and the demand for the product are even more important. Non- Distributor competitor pricing is also a big factor. I previously warned of “sticker shock” when we do offer these for sale but stated that I hope by communicating with you in advance you will understand the intention is to simply have the product for those that wish to obtain it at prices that are in line with what is actually taking place in the market.
At this time, we are not planning on offering uncertified coins, but that might change. The NGC holder provides excellent storage, is attractive, and will fit nicely (of course the holder itself is oversized) in many of your certified coin collections. So for now, if you are interested in obtaining an NGC certified set, we suggest you go to our website on or after the 4th of January, and put in a pre order request. You may already be familiar with how this works but if not, it's a very simple process whereby you will be notified when the coins are in stock and can purchase them at that time but are not obligated, and no upfront money is required.
Thank you for making 2010 our best year ever. On behalf of myself, my partner Jay Rudo, and our entire staff, we wish you a happy, healthy, and prosperous New Year!
<< <i>I just got a very long and well written email from John at MCM explaining their predicament in trying to obtain coins to sell. They will sell only graded pucks and warned about sticker shock.
I don't think it will be much of a shock seeing what the raw beasts are going for right now....as he said this may change once the rest are released but no clue as to a price yet. >>
The way things are going I would not be surprised if the "sticker shock" ends up driving away many that would have otherwise been interested in the series and drive them away for good. Greedy flippers may just kill this series.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
This is the kind of communication that is necessary from the AP's. We are tired of hearing NOTHING from the AP's. It's getting OLD.
I keep saying that many people i've spoken to that do big business with AP's for other bullion products are seriously thinking about taking their business elsewhere because of the AP's lack of communication on this issue.
MCM is not an AP, but notice that their communication is clear and concise.
I've done business with them before, and will continue to do business with them in the future.
<< <i>This is the kind of communication that is necessary from the AP's. We are tired of hearing NOTHING from the AP's. It's getting OLD.
I keep saying that many people i've spoken to that do big business with AP's for other bullion products are seriously thinking about taking their business elsewhere because of the AP's lack of communication on this issue.
MCM is not an AP, but notice that their communication is clear and concise.
I've done business with them before, and will continue to do business with them in the future. >>
I think the problem is that most AP's don't usually have to do communication with thousands of retail buyers and just don't think about it. This is why you get better communication from those who do. The other problem is that the Mint is always changing the rules so they are waiting before making any statements that might have to be recalled.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
In addition to lots of collectors who are pi&&ed about the debacle currently unfolding and that none of the coins are currently selling from any AP - -
many smaller dealers will have no part of the program.
some collectors dont want any either.
this is not the way to start off a multi year program.
the hoopla will work in a negative way against these pucks. if you have any for sale, you might consider taking the lofty prices now - unless you just want the set to keep.
MCM just went up a few notches in my book FWIW. They apparently do not have a pipeline into one of the APs, which elevates them above that mess, since they aren't capitalizing on an inequitable situation.
Making a market based on an open supply & demand is a whole lot more legitimate than the Mint's Authorized Purchasers, who continue to tell people that the coins are not available - all the while dealing them out under the desk to their insiders.
The guys who bought them from Apmex did it legitimately. Anyone who is selling multiples on ebay, if they didn't come from Apmex, is running an illegitimate scam on the coin-buying public.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
my guess is next week some of the AP's will begin selling.....
probably APMEX from their preset ALERT list - I dont expect them to take direct orders on the site till they go thru the ALERT list first
Dillon Gage......
looks like walk ins at Gold Center......
then the fun begins, most likely the prices for raw sets will drop soon afterwards (or should I say a deluge of ebay auctions with hungry dogs undercutting each other)
<< <i>MCM just went up a few notches in my book FWIW. They apparently do not have a pipeline into one of the APs, which elevates them above that mess, since they aren't capitalizing on an inequitable situation.
I will bet they have a pipeline but like other dealers, the pipeline is shut off by order of the US Mint.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>I just got a very long and well written email from John at MCM explaining their predicament in trying to obtain coins to sell. They will sell only graded pucks and warned about sticker shock.
I don't think it will be much of a shock seeing what the raw beasts are going for right now....as he said this may change once the rest are released but no clue as to a price yet. >>
I didn't think they could sell them graded, thought they had to be raw at 10% over cost with reasonable shipping charges. I guess I was wrong in my assumption.
<< <i>dont be surprised to find a line at the Gold Center for walk ins,
lots of smaller shops arrange buyers to go out and stand on those lines....
i saw it first hand at the Lincoln cent commem releases in Wash DC over a year ago....
if they did it for that - they will certainly do it for this...... >>
You could get quantity there. Now it is one per person. Are they going to fly one person for $500 to get one of these? Maybe a caravan with every employee (and their dog) might work though if you are close enough.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
I'm not convinced that I really want to be standing in that line in Springfield......and besides, Illinois is not tolerant of concealed carry, hopefully the hardcore criminals won't know why the line is standing outside that coin store...
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
lots of organized parties showed up in DC for the Lincoln Cent release from the midwest.
they get there.
it doesnt have to be employees, it branches outwards - friends of friends, etc. one guy arranges for 6 others. one caravan ride and split the gas money.
it doesnt take too many parties of 7 to form a line 500 or 1000 long. hope the local area could support it. mayhem could erupt.
i know if you tried that in NJ, mayhem would definitely erupt - someone would walk up and cut the line, another guy would give him a little piece of their mind, words would fly, then ?
what if you are number 500 in the line and they get to you - and ooops!!!! we are out of coin sets, all sold!!!!!
who says it cant happen?
Gold Center should be taking a mail order list for a portion of their sets. They already do a mail order business. I've purchased from them before. But they should let walk ins buy as well.
Comments
I guess not. It's understandable. You think it's logical only the initial sale is covered by the agreement. Not so from what I was told specifically.
You are incorrect as well.
<< <i>Big E - I suppose you heard that from the USM Marketing department, who in conjunction with their legal dept came up with the revised rules?
I guess not. It's understandable. You think it's logical only the initial sale is covered by the agreement. Not so from what I was told specifically.
You are incorrect as well. >>
Wow! This makes it impossible for an AP to ever resell a 2010 5oz in the future. Do you think this is a possibility 7over8?-------BigE
That $825,000 set was an intended joke. Thanks to whoever the seller was (if they're here) for the great Q&A banter.
Welcome aboard coinzine
Miles
<< <i>awwwww.... BigE's got a buddy.
Yep, its nice to have a friend. Thanks, do you have any smokingcoin?
If the Mint was selling these directly to the public in an open and public format, then it would be an open and free market.
Selling them to only 9 distributors who then turn around and rip off the public with 80% markups is far from a free market.
And selling them under the table while telling the public that they are not yet for sale is even worse.
Welcome, Coinzine.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>
<< <i>awwwww.... BigE's got a buddy.
Yep, its nice to have a friend. Thanks, do you have any smokingcoin?
You bet, but I'm afraid none of them are spamming trolls.
<< <i>Still holding strong in case some of you thought of slowing the high pace of this viral thread! >>
They are still going strong. I show the hghest sale at $3101 so far ($124.04/oz). Will these be forgotten toys in a year?
<< <i> Next time the US Mint decides to price fix and restrict open market practices, it might want to consider their current accomplishment.
If the Mint was selling these directly to the public in an open and public format, then it would be an open and free market.
Selling them to only 9 distributors who then turn around and rip off the public with 80% markups is far from a free market.
And selling them under the table while telling the public that they are not yet for sale is even worse.
Welcome, Coinzine.
Exactly!!
<< <i>
<< <i>Still holding strong in case some of you thought of slowing the high pace of this viral thread! >>
They are still going strong. I show the hghest sale at $3101 so far ($124.04/oz). Will these be forgotten toys in a year? >>
Now THAT is THE question!!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>awwwww.... BigE's got a buddy.
Yep, its nice to have a friend. Thanks, do you have any smokingcoin?
You bet, but I'm afraid none of them are spamming trolls.
Care to explain this comment?---------BigE
Box of 20
<< <i> Next time the US Mint decides to price fix and restrict open market practices, it might want to consider their current accomplishment.
If the Mint was selling these directly to the public in an open and public format, then it would be an open and free market.
Selling them to only 9 distributors who then turn around and rip off the public with 80% markups is far from a free market.
And selling them under the table while telling the public that they are not yet for sale is even worse.
Welcome, Coinzine.
I agree that direct selling by the Mint couldn't have created a worse scenario, and probably would have been better. I hate to speak for coinzine, I dont know him, but I believe he is saying is that the additional rules that were placed on the AP's was counterproductive. I agree again-------------BigE
<< <i>awwwww.... BigE's got a buddy.
Not quite, he's always had me as a buddy. Consider us the "silent majority" in this Mint created fiasco.
<< <i>
<< <i>Still holding strong in case some of you thought of slowing the high pace of this viral thread! >>
They are still going strong. I show the hghest sale at $3101 so far ($124.04/oz). Will these be forgotten toys in a year? >>
"irrational exuberance" I wish I had paid attention first time I heard that phrase!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Still holding strong in case some of you thought of slowing the high pace of this viral thread! >>
They are still going strong. I show the hghest sale at $3101 so far ($124.04/oz). Will these be forgotten toys in a year? >>
"irrational exuberance" I wish I had paid attention first time I heard that phrase! >>
Keep an eye on this "Irrational Exuberance" with just over an hour to go......or not.
<< <i>If it's any consolation, at least the little guys are realizing the real profit here.
I don't like little greedy guys any more than big greedy guys. Especially little guys that are hypocrites who complain about greed of others but have no problem with their own.
NOTICE REGARDING AMERICA THE BEAUTIFUL 5 OZ SILVER COINS
Dec 29th 2010 - JHCB Inc is not selling any 5 oz. ATB coins until we can develop a
distribution method that complies with the US Mint's guidelines for these coins.
jh
Dillon Gage called me yesterday asking for my mailing address.
Are the APs working on some type of control for the one set per HH requirement?
<< <i>I see the Jack Hint website has updated its ATB message with the Dec. 29 date -
NOTICE REGARDING AMERICA THE BEAUTIFUL 5 OZ SILVER COINS
Dec 29th 2010 - JHCB Inc is not selling any 5 oz. ATB coins until we can develop a
distribution method that complies with the US Mint's guidelines for these coins.
jh
Dillon Gage called me yesterday asking for my mailing address.
Are the APs working on some type of control for the one set per HH requirement?
Partly so and i guess they are trying to find ways to sell off the best ones to "the public" and in turn this "public" will send off these to be graded for First Strikes.And somehow make its way to the market like Ebay and such and the profits end up quietly in some secret account of theirs.... And say yeah end of January they will sell the ones with nicks and hits to us "The Real Public" and blame the mint for the quality since ..whats their excuse again? Oh we cant sell these to you because we dont have a distribution system in place and besides the US Mint did not provide packaging for these..." My friends i have spoken to another Major Outfit authorized by the US Mint to purchase these directly from them and they said the Exact same thing as per my previous quote.Its a Script they all use i am sure they talk to one another. BUT this particular outfit ALLOWS joe public to walk in to their establishment and they sell them all the Silver and Gold and Platinum that their pockets can afford. So what NO distribution system in place are they talking about.
Coinfame,Kaelasdad,Type2,UNLVino,MICHAELDIXON
Justacommeman,tydye,78saen,123cents,blue62vette,Segoja,Nibanny
Gentlemen, start your engines!
They are taking phone numbers to call back once they are available. I asked if he had a huge list (3000) - he laughed and said i dont think so.
He said that even though it said Jan 3rd on the site.......it may be more like midweek.
Suggest you call to put your name on the list.
We all think that there is enough demand to suck up every last set - and there probably is - but on a "one by one" basis it will take some time.
I don't think it will be much of a shock seeing what the raw beasts are going for right now....as he said this may change once the rest are released but no clue as to a price yet.
Dear ModernCoinMart Customer,
I'd like to take this opportunity to update those who are interested in purchasing the National Parks 5 Ounce Silver Coin sets. Many of you have been asking us when we will have them and what the pricing structure will be. In my last letter to you I explained that as the largest online retailer of certified modern coins your expectations of us are very high and the last thing we want to do is to offer a product and then withdraw it, or change the rules concerning purchase and pricing dramatically. For this reason, we have and will continue to proceed with thoughtfullness in every way possible with regard to the offering of these coins.
Because of the low mintage and current demand you may be aware that sales have already taken place in the marketplace between $2000 and as high as $3500 per ungraded or NGC graded "Gem BU" set. While my instinct tells me this is temporary because the supply will soon dramatically increase as distributors start to sell more sets, we must go out and buy sets at far more than I would really like to pay and that will be reflected in the price we charge. Regardless of what the U.S. Mint mandates with regard to distributor pricing, the secondary market where we obtain the coins is the ultimate determinate on real world current prices.
We are doing our best to obtain the product and having some limited success. I estimate that we will have NGC graded Gem BU sets (generally MS65 to MS68 quality, perhaps averaging MS67) along with NGC MS68 and MS69 sets for sale by the third or fourth week of January. We will begin taking non binding pre-order requests on January 4th, however where we normally estimate the price it will simply be labeled as "unknown". By mid January, we will replace "unknown" with estimated prices. MS70 sets may not be offered at all, due to the average quality being estimated at MS67 to MS68. This information is ONLY our best guess.
In setting our prices one factor is obviously cost, but the ability to obtain additional product and the demand for the product are even more important. Non- Distributor competitor pricing is also a big factor. I previously warned of “sticker shock” when we do offer these for sale but stated that I hope by communicating with you in advance you will understand the intention is to simply have the product for those that wish to obtain it at prices that are in line with what is actually taking place in the market.
At this time, we are not planning on offering uncertified coins, but that might change. The NGC holder provides excellent storage, is attractive, and will fit nicely (of course the holder itself is oversized) in many of your certified coin collections. So for now, if you are interested in obtaining an NGC certified set, we suggest you go to our website on or after the 4th of January, and put in a pre order request. You may already be familiar with how this works but if not, it's a very simple process whereby you will be notified when the coins are in stock and can purchase them at that time but are not obligated, and no upfront money is required.
Thank you for making 2010 our best year ever. On behalf of myself, my partner Jay Rudo, and our entire staff, we wish you a happy, healthy, and prosperous New Year!
Sincerely,
John Maben
CEO, JMRC/ ModernCoinMart
<< <i>I just got a very long and well written email from John at MCM explaining their predicament in trying to obtain coins to sell. They will sell only graded pucks and warned about sticker shock.
I don't think it will be much of a shock seeing what the raw beasts are going for right now....as he said this may change once the rest are released but no clue as to a price yet. >>
The way things are going I would not be surprised if the "sticker shock" ends up driving away many that would have otherwise been interested in the series and drive them away for good. Greedy flippers may just kill this series.
I keep saying that many people i've spoken to that do big business with AP's for other bullion products are seriously thinking about taking their business elsewhere because of the AP's lack of communication on this issue.
MCM is not an AP, but notice that their communication is clear and concise.
I've done business with them before, and will continue to do business with them in the future.
<< <i>This is the kind of communication that is necessary from the AP's. We are tired of hearing NOTHING from the AP's. It's getting OLD.
I keep saying that many people i've spoken to that do big business with AP's for other bullion products are seriously thinking about taking their business elsewhere because of the AP's lack of communication on this issue.
MCM is not an AP, but notice that their communication is clear and concise.
I've done business with them before, and will continue to do business with them in the future. >>
I think the problem is that most AP's don't usually have to do communication with thousands of retail buyers and just don't think about it. This is why you get better communication from those who do. The other problem is that the Mint is always changing the rules so they are waiting before making any statements that might have to be recalled.
I am so frustrated w/myself for sending my set to PCGS for FS grading vs. just selling it on Ebay while the prices are insane. BAD move.
many smaller dealers will have no part of the program.
some collectors dont want any either.
this is not the way to start off a multi year program.
the hoopla will work in a negative way against these pucks. if you have any for sale, you might consider taking the lofty prices now - unless you just want the set to keep.
Coinfame,Kaelasdad,Type2,UNLVino,MICHAELDIXON
Justacommeman,tydye,78saen,123cents,blue62vette,Segoja,Nibanny
<< <i>I know that if I do not get my first set at a reasonable price I am done with these. I already have plenty of coasters laying around. >>
Coinfame,Kaelasdad,Type2,UNLVino,MICHAELDIXON
Justacommeman,tydye,78saen,123cents,blue62vette,Segoja,Nibanny
Making a market based on an open supply & demand is a whole lot more legitimate than the Mint's Authorized Purchasers, who continue to tell people that the coins are not available - all the while dealing them out under the desk to their insiders.
The guys who bought them from Apmex did it legitimately. Anyone who is selling multiples on ebay, if they didn't come from Apmex, is running an illegitimate scam on the coin-buying public.
I knew it would happen.
probably APMEX from their preset ALERT list - I dont expect them to take direct orders on the site till they go thru the ALERT list first
Dillon Gage......
looks like walk ins at Gold Center......
then the fun begins, most likely the prices for raw sets will drop soon afterwards (or should I say a deluge of ebay auctions with hungry dogs undercutting each other)
<< <i>MCM just went up a few notches in my book FWIW. They apparently do not have a pipeline into one of the APs, which elevates them above that mess, since they aren't capitalizing on an inequitable situation.
I will bet they have a pipeline but like other dealers, the pipeline is shut off by order of the US Mint.
<< <i>I just got a very long and well written email from John at MCM explaining their predicament in trying to obtain coins to sell. They will sell only graded pucks and warned about sticker shock.
I don't think it will be much of a shock seeing what the raw beasts are going for right now....as he said this may change once the rest are released but no clue as to a price yet. >>
I didn't think they could sell them graded, thought they had to be raw at 10% over cost with reasonable shipping charges.
I guess I was wrong in my assumption.
lots of smaller shops arrange buyers to go out and stand on those lines....
i saw it first hand at the Lincoln cent commem releases in Wash DC over a year ago....
if they did it for that - they will certainly do it for this......
MCM is a secondary dealer, not an AP. They dont have to follow the 10% max markup.
BTW - my buddy has a Kimber, nice gun.
<< <i>MCM is a secondary dealer, not an AP. >>
10-4
Only the TPGs will ever know for sure.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>dont be surprised to find a line at the Gold Center for walk ins,
lots of smaller shops arrange buyers to go out and stand on those lines....
i saw it first hand at the Lincoln cent commem releases in Wash DC over a year ago....
if they did it for that - they will certainly do it for this...... >>
You could get quantity there. Now it is one per person. Are they going to fly one person for $500 to get one of these? Maybe a caravan with every employee (and their dog) might work though if you are close enough.
I'm not convinced that I really want to be standing in that line in Springfield......and besides, Illinois is not tolerant of concealed carry, hopefully the hardcore criminals won't know why the line is standing outside that coin store...
I knew it would happen.
they get there.
it doesnt have to be employees, it branches outwards - friends of friends, etc. one guy arranges for 6 others. one caravan ride and split the gas money.
it doesnt take too many parties of 7 to form a line 500 or 1000 long. hope the local area could support it. mayhem could erupt.
i know if you tried that in NJ, mayhem would definitely erupt - someone would walk up and cut the line, another guy would give him a little piece of their mind, words would fly, then ?
what if you are number 500 in the line and they get to you - and ooops!!!! we are out of coin sets, all sold!!!!!
who says it cant happen?
Gold Center should be taking a mail order list for a portion of their sets. They already do a mail order business. I've purchased from them before. But they should let walk ins buy as well.
Maybe 1500 sets walk in, 1500 sets mail order?