Each year these are 'innaguaral year issue' and sit on the shelves, normal 'bullion' premium increases. These are going on the shelves in the warehouse with a small release each year at the new, next year out of issue premium. No matter how future year issues pop/flop.
My bet anyway. Like trying to get into Pandas or Lunars or Brits or whatever now.
I think Ebay should pull any auction by any seller of more than one set. It is in the spirit of the Mint's directive that "one set per customer." I don't care "how" anyone gets second, third or fourth sets, this should be disallowed.
The same with those selling them on the shopping networks, should not be allowed.
One set per customer, period. That means anyone in the same household or family, including kids with college addresses and all those other game plays.
<< <i>I think Ebay should pull any auction by any seller of more than one set. It is in the spirit of the Mint's directive that "one set per customer." I don't care "how" anyone gets second, third or fourth sets, this should be disallowed.
The same with those selling them on the shopping networks, should not be allowed.
One set per customer, period. That means anyone in the same household or family, including kids with college addresses and all those other game plays. >>
<< <i>I think Ebay should pull any auction by any seller of more than one set. It is in the spirit of the Mint's directive that "one set per customer." I don't care "how" anyone gets second, third or fourth sets, this should be disallowed.
The same with those selling them on the shopping networks, should not be allowed.
One set per customer, period. That means anyone in the same household or family, including kids with college addresses and all those other game plays. >>
Should people be put in jail for getting puckered-up?------------------BigE
<< <i> The fact is that Apmex isn't selling these to the public, only a select few. That's against the Mint's distribution rules >>
Uh... just call me & 350 others "select few" & not the public. What a bunch of crock. APMEX will eventually sell their allocation, but not at your speed or conditions. >>
it is a crock.
APMEX made good on their first run. They were pre-sales and they needed to do them first, or face a backlash for that, too.
Now, if it takes them a couple more weeks with nothing else... then we're talking.
<< <i>i think the others will get away with whatever they do.
BTW with the excellent packaging APMEX did I could see a delay before shipping these as they needed the capsules, the bubble ziplocks, the boxes and labels, and then assembly.
Most impressive proof finish for bullion coins, I was almost blinded by these. Any major scratches show easily though, also the Grand canyon has some big rocks on that piece. Yellowstone looks great too. : : edit : : It will be interesting to see how the collector version differs from these, they may or may not look better, we will see. >>
And it's posts like this that makes the hassle worthwhile.
Most of us want in now - but only because of the limited issue
This set is doomed for failure - if you are a believer in higher and higher bullion prices.......
and if they reduce the size and weight - who wants a set of different size/weight/etc. coins -
I say buy the first year set, take a chance, keep it if you like it, but if you have no intent on collecting the series - might as well flip it.
Prices will spike, then fall, depends on how long the AP's keep up "their little game" with restricting supply only to "friends and family".......
and those secondaries pricing in line with each other.
One more rule, USM, to implement by 12/31/10...........if an AP doesn't start selling immediately in a public fashion (i.e. internet, phone, walk in) then do not deliver subsequent quantities, or restrict ordering (delay) for next years silver bullion eagle.
Give them a dose of their own medicine. When they cant get a 2011 silver eagle until March----they will wake up quick!!!
I think that the early birds that ordered from APMEX took a shot - it worked out well with a $500 refund in hand to boot.
I and others could as easily done so as well. I chose not to.
But, if it turned out differently, I would NOT have been happy with the set at 1379. Not at all.
It doesnt matter if they are selling for 2500, 3000, 3500 - who cares. Even if I flip a set, that kind of money is not changing anyone's lifestyle at all - nice to have - yes - but no big deal.
It makes me laugh how many on here that have their set still ask "for calm" in waiting for the AP's to get ready to sell. Even when those AP's have released to TV and who knows how many other outlets.
Those very same people calling for calm went BALLISTIC with the UHR release---"wheres my coin", "its not in shipped in order", "blah, blah, blah"
Those limited few forum members who share info and stand up for what is right for all to benefit - I commend them.
I think some of the forum members on here----- as indicated by their posts - must have graduated to coins from the NIB toy market, the same folks who would climb up your back to get the newest toy to sell online around the holidays.....and they didnt even have kids!!!!
This whole thing has been a circus. But a few things are clear. The USM is NOT going to let this happen again unless they can help it. It'll be a goal of theirs not to short-strike the bullion pieces next year. So what we have is a 5-coin set that's not only lower mintage than its siblings but also a different size. I don't think we've ever seen anything like this before. Add to that, the collector appeal for this series. Plus, two of the most-visited parks (Yosemite and Yellowstone) are in this short-struck set.
It'll be hard to keep this one down.
Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
I'll pay $50 to the first person who can text me about a location where I can buy a set at the release price (like apmex has filled their orders) when they become available...and I am actually able to go there (preferably online or phone) and purchase a set 501success626fully7669.
phone number somewhat scrambled above
edited to add 'online or phone' as the destination
Great BST experiences: abitofthisabitofthat, silvercoinsdude, gerard, coinfame, mikescoins, wondercoin
Doomed for failure - absolutely. Remember, I am not referring to the 5 - 5 oz coins purchased this year......I am referring to this set for future years.
Why?
No one will complete this set when bullion goes to $50, $75, etc. - it will be unaffordable to most.
No one is collecting these. They are in it for the "apparent" key year - 2010...and thats it.
It's a flipper's dream. You can tell by all the fresh new members even posting to this thread.
<< <i>No one will complete this set when bullion goes to $50, $75, etc. - it will be unaffordable to most. >>
Not sure about that...Look at the UHR...the Mint managed to sell 100k+
It always amazes me, on how much money is actually available "out there." Look at the # of bullion ASE's sold in the last 2 years & silver has doubled in price during that time.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
<< <i> No one will complete this set when bullion goes to $50, $75, etc. - it will be unaffordable to most. >>
Interesting senario.
Bullion at $50 an ounce would prohibit most (including myself) from collecting the entire set. But demand for bullion will still be high. The 2010 1 oz. proof gold eagle sold out within a month. At $50 an ounce, one 5 oz. coin would likely still be cheaper than buying a 1oz gold proof eagle, as gold would likely be quite a bit higher with silver at $50.
With only a precious few able to collect the entire series, demand would drop, production would drop, etc. We'd see melting occurring, especially if silver hits $75. Melting would hit the 2011+ series' first, as they're likely to be the common dates. The 2010 keys would be marginalized.
I don't think we're going to be hitting $75 anytime too soon. Though $50 is no longer out of the question!
In the short term, these still seem like a very wise investment however.
Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
I see that both of them are APMEX, and not the Central Illinois Hoard. TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Serious question.....We all know that the AP's are required to sell the 2010 puck sets retail at approximately $860 plus S&H. . Does anybody see any legal reason why an AP could not hold onto the 2010 sets until they can buy the 2011 sets from the Mint at normal bullion coin rates, without any restrictions, and then offer a combo meal with a 2010 set at approx. $860 AND a 2011 set at a bit more, thereby making a little extra retail money and getting collections of sets started with the expectation of selling the same people more sets in the future? . Do not argue "rightness" or "wrongness".....would it be legal? . TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>Serious question.....We all know that the AP's are required to sell the 2010 puck sets retail at approximately $860 plus S&H. . Does anybody see any legal reason why an AP could not hold onto the 2010 sets until they can buy the 2011 sets from the Mint at normal bullion coin rates, without any restrictions, and then offer a combo meal with a 2010 set at approx. $860 AND a 2011 set at a bit more, thereby making a little extra retail money and getting collections of sets started with the expectation of selling the same people more sets in the future? . Do not argue "rightness" or "wrongness".....would it be legal? . TD >>
It's legal right now until the Mint comes out with the Official Puck Rulebook this week. Should be great reading for those who advocate the Mints intrusion into the free market------BigE
Anything the AP's choose to do is technically legal. It may be breech of contract; however, and the consequences would have to be enforced by the mint. The question is how far do you think the mint will go to enforce its provisions (most likely yanking AP status)? I think the AP's that sold to CoinVault (assuming this is what happened) is calling the mint's bluff.
Some people collect bullion. Those who collect bullion will want these sets and premiums aren't that important.
To some people it's just bullion. Those people will buy the bullion if it is competitively priced with other bullion. Bullion buyers, by definition, do not want to pay premiums - they are concerned with $/oz. If a bullion buyer pays a steep premium, then it is not a bullion purchase, but a collector purchase.
Some "collector" coins once sold by the mint-to-consumer carry little or no premium, and are thus traded as bullion, despite having been sold through a retail channel as a collector's item (such as some gold spouse gold coins).
If an item produced as bullion achieves a high premium, it is no longer bullion.
those who advocate the Mints intrusion into the free market
The Mint's selling only to 9 selected distributors is a "free market"?
More like a commissary in Soviet Russia. You can get them at issue price when they are available, and they are not available, unless you pay the black marketers an exorbitant price.
(A government-sanctioned shortage with the rise of black markets is one of the distinguishing features of "that which is the opposite" of a free market. Check it out.)
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>Anything the AP's choose to do is technically legal. It may be breech of contract; however, and the consequences would have to be enforced by the mint. The question is how far do you think the mint will go to enforce its provisions (most likely yanking AP status)? I think the AP's that sold to CoinVault (assuming this is what happened) is calling the mint's bluff. >>
The mint's office of legal affair's phone will be ringing tomorrow.
<< <i> If an item produced as bullion achieves a high premium, it is no longer bullion. >>
Right. And this whole ordeal is an example of what happens when the mint inadvertently uses APs to sell collector coins.
I don't know about you guys, but reading this thread is better than watching prime time TV dramas. This is an interesting piece of USM history. Savor it....and...
Pass the popcorn please!
Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
As in the 70's...price controls do not work & will not work for the pucks either. The free market will eventually decide the pucks value. A mintage of 33k sets & the Mint calls it bullion? Give me a break.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
i would think that the delay for these is do to the fact of packaging...... i'm sure that if the AP started shipping these out without "proper packaging" the next thing we would be hearing is how "damaged" a persons set is.
I understand the highest prices offered (to buy) on the tape (dealer to dealer) was $1200 (per set) late last week.
So, clearly, the dealers werent willing to "stretch" far to get these. That means one of two things.....
1) demand isnt there at more than 1200++ retail. (probably not true, but one cant base demand on a few, or ten, or even 50 ebay sales)
2) they can acquire these at a little more than 1200 from AP's......in quanitites.....
So, there you go.....
these sets would do MUCH BETTER, if the AP's truly sold to the general public......they would have a widespread distribution and dealer buys would be higher......
instead of the backroom dealing and price "controls" (and i dont mean the USM imposed maximum profit margin) out there today......
isnt it funny you wont see many secondaries offer below 2500-3000 per set?
Dealers are willing to pay $1200? That seems good to me, considering the price from APMEX was $850. They're willing to pay a $350 markup, when most of the APs haven't even released yet....
Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
<< <i>isn't it funny you wont see many secondaries offer below 2500-3000 per set? >>
There is a BIN @ $2150 and the last couple of auctions are in the $2050 range. Not sure if bids are lower as buyers are busy putting Christmas to bed and getting ready for work. It will be interesting to see how next week shapes up...
Most BIN's over $2500 on eBay are now languishing... Auction style listings with pucks in hand are in the $2000 - $2250 range. It appears to be the current range for the pucks ( on eBay & not HSN )
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
Haven't seen any buys on our dealer-to-dealer network. TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Comments
My bet anyway. Like trying to get into Pandas or Lunars or Brits or whatever now.
The same with those selling them on the shopping networks, should not be allowed.
One set per customer, period. That means anyone in the same household or family, including kids with college addresses and all those other game plays.
<< <i>I think Ebay should pull any auction by any seller of more than one set. It is in the spirit of the Mint's directive that "one set per customer." I don't care "how" anyone gets second, third or fourth sets, this should be disallowed.
The same with those selling them on the shopping networks, should not be allowed.
One set per customer, period. That means anyone in the same household or family, including kids with college addresses and all those other game plays. >>
Loves me some shiny!
<< <i>I think Ebay should pull any auction by any seller of more than one set. It is in the spirit of the Mint's directive that "one set per customer." I don't care "how" anyone gets second, third or fourth sets, this should be disallowed.
The same with those selling them on the shopping networks, should not be allowed.
One set per customer, period. That means anyone in the same household or family, including kids with college addresses and all those other game plays. >>
Should people be put in jail for getting puckered-up?------------------BigE
<< <i>
<< <i> The fact is that Apmex isn't selling these to the public, only a select few. That's against the Mint's distribution rules >>
Uh... just call me & 350 others "select few" & not the public. What a bunch of crock. APMEX will eventually sell their allocation, but not at your speed or conditions. >>
it is a crock.
APMEX made good on their first run. They were pre-sales and they needed to do them first, or face a backlash for that, too.
Now, if it takes them a couple more weeks with nothing else... then we're talking.
<< <i>i think the others will get away with whatever they do.
BTW with the excellent packaging APMEX did I could see a delay before shipping these as they needed the capsules, the bubble ziplocks, the boxes and labels, and then assembly.
Most impressive proof finish for bullion coins, I was almost blinded by these. Any major scratches show easily though, also the Grand canyon has some big rocks on that piece. Yellowstone looks great too.
:
:
edit
:
:
It will be interesting to see how the collector version differs from these, they may or may not look better, we will see. >>
And it's posts like this that makes the hassle worthwhile.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>I think I'll buy a mini set instead. Only $7 over melt and no order limits!
You know what? This might not be such a bad idea.
Coinfame,Kaelasdad,Type2,UNLVino,MICHAELDIXON
Justacommeman,tydye,78saen,123cents,blue62vette,Segoja,Nibanny
This set is doomed for failure - if you are a believer in higher and higher bullion prices.......
and if they reduce the size and weight - who wants a set of different size/weight/etc. coins -
I say buy the first year set, take a chance, keep it if you like it, but if you have no intent on collecting the series - might as well flip it.
Prices will spike, then fall, depends on how long the AP's keep up "their little game" with restricting supply only to "friends and family".......
and those secondaries pricing in line with each other.
One more rule, USM, to implement by 12/31/10...........if an AP doesn't start selling immediately in a public fashion (i.e. internet, phone, walk in) then do not deliver subsequent quantities, or restrict ordering (delay) for next years silver bullion eagle.
Give them a dose of their own medicine. When they cant get a 2011 silver eagle until March----they will wake up quick!!!
I and others could as easily done so as well. I chose not to.
But, if it turned out differently, I would NOT have been happy with the set at 1379. Not at all.
It doesnt matter if they are selling for 2500, 3000, 3500 - who cares. Even if I flip a set, that kind of money is not changing anyone's lifestyle at all - nice to have - yes - but no big deal.
It makes me laugh how many on here that have their set still ask "for calm" in waiting for the AP's to get ready to sell. Even when those AP's have released to TV and who knows how many other outlets.
Those very same people calling for calm went BALLISTIC with the UHR release---"wheres my coin", "its not in shipped in order", "blah, blah, blah"
Those limited few forum members who share info and stand up for what is right for all to benefit - I commend them.
I think some of the forum members on here----- as indicated by their posts - must have graduated to coins from the NIB toy market, the same folks who would climb up your back to get the newest toy to sell online around the holidays.....and they didnt even have kids!!!!
So what are the chances any of the APs are going to start sales tomorrow?
I know...silly naive me for asking!!!
<< <i>So what are the chances any of the APs are going to start sales tomorrow? >>
I expect to hear something from APMEX this week. Hopefully tomorrow but they need to move this week on distribution.
This whole thing has been a circus. But a few things are clear. The USM is NOT going to let this happen again unless they can help it. It'll be a goal of theirs not to short-strike the bullion pieces next year. So what we have is a 5-coin set that's not only lower mintage than its siblings but also a different size. I don't think we've ever seen anything like this before. Add to that, the collector appeal for this series. Plus, two of the most-visited parks (Yosemite and Yellowstone) are in this short-struck set.
It'll be hard to keep this one down.
I'll pay $50 to the first person who can text me about a location where I can buy a set at the release price (like apmex has filled their orders) when they become available...and I am actually able to go there (preferably online or phone) and purchase a set 501success626fully7669.
phone number somewhat scrambled above
edited to add 'online or phone' as the destination
Doomed for failure - absolutely. Remember, I am not referring to the 5 - 5 oz coins purchased this year......I am referring to this set for future years.
Why?
No one will complete this set when bullion goes to $50, $75, etc. - it will be unaffordable to most.
No one is collecting these. They are in it for the "apparent" key year - 2010...and thats it.
It's a flipper's dream. You can tell by all the fresh new members even posting to this thread.
<< <i>At the cheap prices I can't see any downside, they are certainly a no brainer to buy. >>
Ok. I'll buy a set. Where are they?
<< <i>No one will complete this set when bullion goes to $50, $75, etc. - it will be unaffordable to most. >>
Not sure about that...Look at the UHR...the Mint managed to sell 100k+
It always amazes me, on how much money is actually available "out there." Look at the # of bullion ASE's sold in the last 2 years & silver has doubled in price during that time.
<< <i>
No one will complete this set when bullion goes to $50, $75, etc. - it will be unaffordable to most.
>>
Interesting senario.
Bullion at $50 an ounce would prohibit most (including myself) from collecting the entire set. But demand for bullion will still be high. The 2010 1 oz. proof gold eagle sold out within a month. At $50 an ounce, one 5 oz. coin would likely still be cheaper than buying a 1oz gold proof eagle, as gold would likely be quite a bit higher with silver at $50.
With only a precious few able to collect the entire series, demand would drop, production would drop, etc. We'd see melting occurring, especially if silver hits $75. Melting would hit the 2011+ series' first, as they're likely to be the common dates. The 2010 keys would be marginalized.
I don't think we're going to be hitting $75 anytime too soon. Though $50 is no longer out of the question!
In the short term, these still seem like a very wise investment however.
<< <i>Another in hand, ready to ship ebay listing, start @ $1799, BIN @ $2345.67 (nice sequential number there for the BIN
another one
Any of you guys with X-mas presents going to list?
Oh and now there's this one too, BIN @ $3000 -
3000 BIN >>
I see that both of them are APMEX, and not the Central Illinois Hoard.
TD
<< <i>
I like the new popcorn icon........
TD
I AM NOT referring to the current versions (2010) doing well or doomed during higher bullion prices.
But try to find someone who will commit to 5 new rounds per year at $50, $75 or $100 per oz......
Not likely.
Again, these arent attracting normal bullion buyers who look for low premiums - like on bars.......these are collectors, looking to start a set.....
It's like starting a set which could prove to be an unreachable goal........who wants to begin that...?
The UHR was a ONE TIME one ounce gold coin with an absolutely stunning design. $1,100 bucks and your done. Not 10 years of staggared investments.
Much Much different.
.
Does anybody see any legal reason why an AP could not hold onto the 2010 sets until they can buy the 2011 sets from the Mint at normal bullion coin rates, without any restrictions, and then offer a combo meal with a 2010 set at approx. $860 AND a 2011 set at a bit more, thereby making a little extra retail money and getting collections of sets started with the expectation of selling the same people more sets in the future?
.
Do not argue "rightness" or "wrongness".....would it be legal?
.
TD
<< <i>Serious question.....We all know that the AP's are required to sell the 2010 puck sets retail at approximately $860 plus S&H.
.
Does anybody see any legal reason why an AP could not hold onto the 2010 sets until they can buy the 2011 sets from the Mint at normal bullion coin rates, without any restrictions, and then offer a combo meal with a 2010 set at approx. $860 AND a 2011 set at a bit more, thereby making a little extra retail money and getting collections of sets started with the expectation of selling the same people more sets in the future?
.
Do not argue "rightness" or "wrongness".....would it be legal?
.
TD >>
It's legal right now until the Mint comes out with the Official Puck Rulebook this week. Should be great reading for those who advocate the Mints intrusion into the free market------BigE
Some people collect bullion. Those who collect bullion will want these sets and premiums aren't that important.
To some people it's just bullion. Those people will buy the bullion if it is competitively priced with other bullion. Bullion buyers, by definition, do not want to pay premiums - they are concerned with $/oz. If a bullion buyer pays a steep premium, then it is not a bullion purchase, but a collector purchase.
Some "collector" coins once sold by the mint-to-consumer carry little or no premium, and are thus traded as bullion, despite having been sold through a retail channel as a collector's item (such as some gold spouse gold coins).
If an item produced as bullion achieves a high premium, it is no longer bullion.
The Mint's selling only to 9 selected distributors is a "free market"?
More like a commissary in Soviet Russia. You can get them at issue price when they are available, and they are not available, unless you pay the black marketers an exorbitant price.
(A government-sanctioned shortage with the rise of black markets is one of the distinguishing features of "that which is the opposite" of a free market. Check it out.)
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Anything the AP's choose to do is technically legal. It may be breech of contract; however, and the consequences would have to be enforced by the mint. The question is how far do you think the mint will go to enforce its provisions (most likely yanking AP status)? I think the AP's that sold to CoinVault (assuming this is what happened) is calling the mint's bluff. >>
The mint's office of legal affair's phone will be ringing tomorrow.
BigE -- do you like the uptick rule?
<< <i>probably legal, but probably against the spirit of the Mint Puck-AP rulebook mentioned above.
BigE -- do you like the uptick rule? >>
No,
I prefer they remain on the ground away from my branches, and where they wont fall on peoples heads--------BigE
As far as the stock market, yes, I believe it is good, I am not one of those Kudlow fans
<< <i>
If an item produced as bullion achieves a high premium, it is no longer bullion. >>
Right. And this whole ordeal is an example of what happens when the mint inadvertently uses APs to sell collector coins.
I don't know about you guys, but reading this thread is better than watching prime time TV dramas. This is an interesting piece of USM history. Savor it....and...
Pass the popcorn please!
<< <i>
<< <i>
I like the new popcorn icon........
TD >>
I need one of those ... where can I get one?
i'm sure that if the AP started shipping these out without "proper packaging" the next thing we would be hearing is how "damaged" a persons set is.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
I like the new popcorn icon........
TD >>
I need one of those ... where can I get one? >>
just right-click on it and choose "save image as" and save on your hard drive.
So, clearly, the dealers werent willing to "stretch" far to get these. That means one of two things.....
1) demand isnt there at more than 1200++ retail. (probably not true, but one cant base demand on a few, or ten, or even 50 ebay sales)
2) they can acquire these at a little more than 1200 from AP's......in quanitites.....
So, there you go.....
these sets would do MUCH BETTER, if the AP's truly sold to the general public......they would have a widespread distribution and dealer buys would be higher......
instead of the backroom dealing and price "controls" (and i dont mean the USM imposed maximum profit margin) out there today......
isnt it funny you wont see many secondaries offer below 2500-3000 per set?
<< <i>isn't it funny you wont see many secondaries offer below 2500-3000 per set? >>
There is a BIN @ $2150 and the last couple of auctions are in the $2050 range. Not sure if bids are lower as buyers are busy putting Christmas to bed and getting ready for work. It will be interesting to see how next week shapes up...
<< <i>I understand the highest prices offered (to buy) on the tape (dealer to dealer) was $1200 (per set) late last week. >>
where did you get this info?
is there anyone out there to confirm this number?
TD