<< <i>This is a link to terms for plat. auth. distributors, but it applies to the other metals as well. As you can see, the point of the program is to make these bullion coins available to the public at a reasonable, competitive price relative to spot w/low transaction costs - i.e., the EXACT opposite of what they are doing. >>
Your link says:
"In order to be competitive, the coins must be as widely available to the public as possible, be priced in line with other platinum bullion coins..."
APMEX is selling the America the Beautiful coins for $279 each. They are also selling 5 ounce uncirculated Libertads for $249 to $549. The America the Beautiful coins seem priced in line with other silver 5 ounce coins to me.
<< <i>This is a link to terms for plat. auth. distributors, but it applies to the other metals as well. As you can see, the point of the program is to make these bullion coins available to the public at a reasonable, competitive price relative to spot w/low transaction costs - i.e., the EXACT opposite of what they are doing. >>
Your link says:
"In order to be competitive, the coins must be as widely available to the public as possible, be priced in line with other platinum bullion coins..."
APMEX is selling the America the Beautiful coins for $279 each. They are also selling 5 ounce uncirculated Libertads for $249 to $549. The America the Beautiful coins seem priced in line with other silver 5 ounce coins to me. >>
They also sell the Australian 2011 Year of the Rabbit five-ouncer for $177.
<< <i>They also sell the Australian 2011 Year of the Rabbit five-ouncer for $177. >>
You're right. They do.
So let's see- taking a low of $177 for the Australian coin and a high of $549 for the Mexican one, the average is $363. And the America the Beautiful coins are priced at $279. Still seems priced in line with other five ouncers to me.
<< <i>This is a link to terms for plat. auth. distributors, but it applies to the other metals as well. As you can see, the point of the program is to make these bullion coins available to the public at a reasonable, competitive price relative to spot w/low transaction costs - i.e., the EXACT opposite of what they are doing. >>
Your link says:
"In order to be competitive, the coins must be as widely available to the public as possible, be priced in line with other platinum bullion coins..."
APMEX is selling the America the Beautiful coins for $279 each. They are also selling 5 ounce uncirculated Libertads for $249 to $549. The America the Beautiful coins seem priced in line with other silver 5 ounce coins to me. >>
They also sell the Australian 2011 Year of the Rabbit five-ouncer for $177. >>
EXACTLY! The most recent Libertads that I see listed are nearly 10 years old. All of the recent 5 o.z. ones are sold out. I would assume that they were much closer to spot. The one ounce ASEs are $2.59 over spot/ounce. I don't know squat about Libertads. It would seem that, like some of the silver Pandas, some older issues command a substantial premium. Even the APMEX listings for the older issues to which you refer discuss them in terms of rarity and not in terms of bullion.
CLEARLY the intention of the U.S. Mint's Auth. Dist. program is to sell for a reasonable premium over spot - like the 5 o.z. Year of the Rabbit, one oz. ASE, etc. (current issue, bullion coins). They are not doing so. As mentioned, I'll bet that, in the end, they won't get away w/this scott free.
<< <i>CLEARLY the intention of the U.S. Mint's Auth. Dist. program is to sell for a reasonable premium over spot - like the 5 o.z. Year of the Rabbit, one oz. ASE, etc. (current issue, bullion coins). >>
It might be helpful to know what the actual contract the distributors sign on to says before condemning them for violating it. I know- wishful thinking. Let's just get the torches and pitchforks out and have at it.
edited to add... if the mint's intention is to have the coins sold near spot, the solution is to mint to demand, regardless of how long it takes. Somehow, I don't think that would help much, as it would just end up hacking off a different group of people.
<< <i>CLEARLY the intention of the U.S. Mint's Auth. Dist. program is to sell for a reasonable premium over spot - like the 5 o.z. Year of the Rabbit, one oz. ASE, etc. (current issue, bullion coins). >>
It might be helpful to know what the actual contract the distributors sign on to says before condemning them for violating it. I know- wishful thinking. Let's just get the torches and pitchforks out and have at it. >>
I think that it is safe to assume that:
1) APMEX is not going to just fax over the contract on demand.
2) I doubt that The Mint will either.
3) That the contract puts into legalease the stated intention of the Auth. Dist. program which I linked to.
Bring on the pitchforks and torches...they are very well deserved.
If all of the angry posts in this twelve hour old, 157 post count thread are any indication, I think that the Auth. Dist. who decide to abuse their status will see the orange glow from the torches over the horizon in short order....
I used to think highly of APMEX but with the current price gouging for BULLION COINS this is on the line of being disgusting. For what its worth here is a comparisong if you were to buy a 1 oz Proof 2010 SAE
$45.95 x 5= $229.75
While these 5 ounce hockey pucks which are NOT numismatic versions are selling for $279, $50 more than what a numismatic version is selling at the mint. Shame on APMEX for trying to r*** their customers with such disgusting prices. For what its worth I dont think the mint will be pricing the 5 ouncers more than what they would charge for a proof coin so it may be prudent to wait for the numismatic version of which you will receive a nice presentation box.
The bullion version though may become the "numnismatic" version when its all said and done, who knows
Hey i have an idea...why not create fake accounts and post tons of reviews on their website stating the price gouging, that will give them something to think about
<< <i>I think it's time the US Mint reconsiders how they are doing this distribution thing. Distributors selling at nearly double melt somehow does not seem to be the original intent on how the system was set up. I thought the intent was for the distributors to resell at reasonable levels....... >>
That is the intent. We should ALL call The Mint and express exactly these thoughts to them. Letters to NN and CW are not a bad idea either. >>
It would make more sense to contact your representatives in congress.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Yes- shame on APMEX for selling stuff to people at prices they voluntarily choose to pay. What scum. If they cared at all, they'd let their customers decide what the price is for the things they want to buy. >>
<< <i>Down to 435 sets left at 3:45a.m. ET on 12/04/2010.
Lots of blue light bulbs on the screen. I'll hold down the fort. >>
well siting at 408 sets left at 7:47 eastern time. No Way No WAy No Way. What i just can't understand is how people feel so good about spending 1500 when the guy in front of them in the line has paid 1000? That is the price these started at with Monaco, Now when i called he offered me 10 sets for 975.00 a set, i did not have 10 grand sitting in the bank, so was offered 1 set for 1100.00. Now within 2 hrs of this the price went to 1500 a set, krazy moon money. Thats fine that they can keep jacking up the prices as they see fit, BUT at what point do you buyers realize the guy in front of you got them for 1000 Why would i pay 1500 for the same product ? Yes i guess if your going to flip these than maybe 1500 is a deal, and i now realize i should have just told the guy ok for the 10 sets, Live and learn i guess...........waiting for monday
"Yes- shame on APMEX for selling stuff to people at prices they voluntarily choose to pay. What scum. If they cared at all, they'd let their customers decide what the price is for the things they want to buy.
Hey. Shut up your lousy capitalist...."
Actually, in this case The Govt. tightly controls production (by necessity of course with these Govt. issued bullion pieces). The Govt. then (by a now clearly flawed) legislative mandate also controls the select, chosen few who can get these pucks under the guise of fair distribution at a reasonalbe price w/low transaction costs, only to have those chosen, well connected few be free to totally gouge the buyers. This reminds me of another system, one quite different than free market capitalism....
There was a quote that next years maximum mintage would be 500,000 across all options.
I read somewhere that that includes Numismatic version also. So that would make about 50,000 of each bullion and numismatic. In the long run how many collector's will collect the series or will it end up like the spouse gold?
This mintage of 33,000 may be the highest of any year. But it is still the 1st year though.
As others have been getting at, I tried to figure at what price I would be "in", and I think that 200-210 per coin would have done it.
If APMEX sells all theirs at that price then God bless them for it. I would not want to be in at that price and the fact that the mintage is only 33k for this widget really is not much of a selling point as that figure is for speculators/flippers. If silver holds to near its present levels and mintages remain on par, I doubt they will be able to sell future issues near to this price.
I suspect there will be precious few actual collectors so we will see a short (how long?) wave of flipping until reality sets in IMO.
Will wait for the numismatic version if it is not too exhorbitant.
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
lets be realistic - no one, no one, given the course of the current bullion markets will expect to complete a set of these over the next 10 years......
therefore, there will not be masses of 1000's like that of ASE collectors being a force of demand on this series of hockey pucks....
the comparison to the 96 ASE bullion version is a horrible comparison. Entry point there was probably around $8 bucks and rode to $40-$50 wholesale, with about 500,000 collectors or more. dont expect the same out of these.
BTW, didnt we get notice that the numismatic version will be a 27,000 mintage? If so, this will not be the key, but rather a semi-key.
<< <i>lets be realistic - no one, no one, given the course of the current bullion markets will expect to complete a set of these over the next 10 years...... >>
...and why is that??? The yearly set still costs less than a single gold Buffalo and people collect those...
<< <i>I think it's time the US Mint reconsiders how they are doing this distribution thing. Distributors selling at nearly double melt somehow does not seem to be the original intent on how the system was set up. I thought the intent was for the distributors to resell at reasonable levels....... >>
That is the intent. We should ALL call The Mint and express exactly these thoughts to them. Letters to NN and CW are not a bad idea either. >>
It would make more sense to contact your representatives in congress. >>
Yes, that is top priority. Never mind that the dollar is trash and unemployment is getting higher. It can wait. We must stop greedy bullion distributors so we can get our pucks at $200.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>ok boucharda - so you will have about <50,000 real collectors of these right (current proof buffalo mintage 2009/2010?)? wow , thats a big drag on at least 100,000 planned mintage of each in coming years......so they never sell out, and then most lose interest. >>
But wasn't the "announced" mintage supposed to be 100k for each this year also?
"The United States Mint anticipates it will produce up to 500,000 America the Beautiful 5 oz silver bullion coins this year".
...and it was announced as a bullion coin only to be sold through the normal bullion network
...and now the bullion mintage is 33k
...and we will have a "collectors" version with 27k
...and you think the Mint knows what it will do for the next nine years????
...and IF the mintage does go to 100k (50k each version) next year won't that make this years coins more desirable?
spot + $10 per oz - more than reasonable when they are paying spot + ~$10 per COIN.
That's $8 per oz profit.......$40 per coin, about 26% margin currently.
and I dont want to hear bs about free markets, capitalism,
this is a MEMBERS ONLY PARTY, only available to first tier distibutors, a GIFT, a guaranteed profit,
there's nothing competitive about this deal. they all get the same deal. now cap the profit by means of an agreement.
otherwise, make them available to the public at a slightly higher price and cap it that way. >>
That $40 per coin WOULD NOT be all profit. That is gross margin from which expenses would be deducted to yield a net profit which I'd guess would be about $6 or so.
<< <i>It was mentioned earlier that APMEX would get approx. 3000 of these pucks and have put 1000 up for sale....
Why do I think that they are cherry picking through them and these 1000 are the culls. The rest will go for grading....
Just sayin'...... >>
Agree. They would be crazy not to cherry pick the high grade coins for slabbing. The rest would be sold raw.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
time is on the distributors side, no more bullion versions will be made (per the info release)
otherwise, the USM could "strike of the presses" and pump another 50k into the market and destroy runaway premiums.
they should have contractually limited excessive pricing from the first tier guys - at risk of losing your status for other products - just my opinion.
BTW, they still havent sold 1000 sets, at least 12 hours later.
That doesnt bode well for the potential flip - and I bet you 50% or more of those purchases are for the flip.
if you think they operate a business and take a $40 profit (this case) down to $6 - they better get into another line of work.
they already have the platform, ordering system, manpower spread over 100's of products - these type of business work real close on tight spreads.......and BTW, ship charges and cc spreads are pretty high, so I would say those are positive as well.
i will admit maybe they have another $10 in costs wrapped up in the deal. but thats it.
I would love to have both the initial set and the ones being released next year if i am lucky enought to get them that is...since i know tom,dick and harry and their spouses and children and cousins to their grandparents are going to be calling in to order these straight from the mint P versions...but i don't have deep pockets to even buy a single National Parks set this year ...and yes Probably the majority of the buyers are hoping to keep one and flip the other set hoping to at least pay part of the first set that their keeping but then one has to consider a lot of factors like the high unemployment,homelessness the economy and lets face it a lot of people including entire families went to soup kitchens this year just to feed their families...that's just reality out there right now. Buying these sets at these prices ,one would probably ask... how high can the prices of this set appreciate in the near future? How big is the demand once the intial interest wears off? And once the appetite of the market for these are satisfied then what? Another thing to think about is that this is silver and not gold. Just my thoughts about this...im not saying im right ... i am not hating those who can afford either...infact more power to them as well. Also when they come out graded later how much will they cost...$500 each
<< <i>and your earlier point about proof buff's - they have sold at a rate of 10,000+ in the first day.....
guess the demand on these is a little less, huh? >>
Ummmm...never used the word "proof" when taking about the Gold Buffalo.
...Do you think APMEX is the ONLY company selling these???? There is no way to tell how many of these have been sold by all authorized merchants...I would guess close to 10,000 in the 1st day as PRESALES! Tomorrow will be the 1st day they will be shipped to the distributors ....and it will be a few days before the real sales begin...Hard to define "1st day" numbers
if you think they operate a business and take a $40 profit (this case) down to $6 - they better get into another line of work.
they already have the platform, ordering system, manpower spread over 100's of products - these type of business work real close on tight spreads.......and BTW, ship charges and cc spreads are pretty high, so I would say those are positive as well.
i will admit maybe they have another $10 in costs wrapped up in the deal. but thats it. >>
So they don't pay any taxes on their profits? My point is that the $40 markup isn't pure profit. Most large businesses are in the 10% net range after ALL expenses. Granted APMEX could be higher than the net 15% I figured them for.
<< <i>Apmex site says they take returns within 3 days of delivery. If they only send culls they'll get a lot of em back >>
Yep, cept 95% of purchasers won't know the difference. A board membeer years ago handpicked some ASEs for me from the Mint's kiosk in Union Station in D.C. The gal said to him "you must be a collector". I guess most people just buy em and forget em.
I have serious doubts that APMEX's allocation was around 3,000. They are small fry in the Authorized Distributor category... Their cut more likely was only the 1,000 that are available on their site.
I stand corrected...apparently they did get 3,000 sets. 1,000 sets available for the subscription customers. Once that is sold out, I suspect the remaining sets will be repriced..higher..
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
I think it's time the US Mint reconsiders how they are doing this distribution thing. Distributors selling at nearly double melt somehow does not seem to be the original intent on how the system was set up. I thought the intent was for the distributors to resell at reasonable levels.......
I don't think the mint has any say in the prices that the bullion distributors sell them for, but they may limited them in the future to the bullion distributors that are price gouging. By law they have to distibute these as bullion so they have no choice. I expect the set from the mint to sell for $995 if silver is at $30. This is there usual premium mark up on all their offerings.
I'll wait for the collector version from the mint:
"A numismatic version of the three-inch, five-ounce silver coins, also minted in .999 silver, will be available for purchase directly from the United States Mint during the first quarter of 2011. The maximum mintage for these collector versions is set at 135,000 units-27,000 units for each of the five 2010 coins."
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Comments
<< <i>This is a link to terms for plat. auth. distributors, but it applies to the other metals as well. As you can see, the point of the program is to make these bullion coins available to the public at a reasonable, competitive price relative to spot w/low transaction costs - i.e., the EXACT opposite of what they are doing. >>
Your link says:
"In order to be competitive, the coins must be as widely available to the public as possible, be priced in line with other platinum bullion coins..."
APMEX is selling the America the Beautiful coins for $279 each. They are also selling 5 ounce uncirculated Libertads for $249 to $549. The America the Beautiful coins seem priced in line with other silver 5 ounce coins to me.
<< <i>
<< <i>This is a link to terms for plat. auth. distributors, but it applies to the other metals as well. As you can see, the point of the program is to make these bullion coins available to the public at a reasonable, competitive price relative to spot w/low transaction costs - i.e., the EXACT opposite of what they are doing. >>
Your link says:
"In order to be competitive, the coins must be as widely available to the public as possible, be priced in line with other platinum bullion coins..."
APMEX is selling the America the Beautiful coins for $279 each. They are also selling 5 ounce uncirculated Libertads for $249 to $549. The America the Beautiful coins seem priced in line with other silver 5 ounce coins to me. >>
They also sell the Australian 2011 Year of the Rabbit five-ouncer for $177.
<< <i>They also sell the Australian 2011 Year of the Rabbit five-ouncer for $177. >>
You're right. They do.
So let's see- taking a low of $177 for the Australian coin and a high of $549 for the Mexican one, the average is $363. And the America the Beautiful coins are priced at $279. Still seems priced in line with other five ouncers to me.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>This is a link to terms for plat. auth. distributors, but it applies to the other metals as well. As you can see, the point of the program is to make these bullion coins available to the public at a reasonable, competitive price relative to spot w/low transaction costs - i.e., the EXACT opposite of what they are doing. >>
Your link says:
"In order to be competitive, the coins must be as widely available to the public as possible, be priced in line with other platinum bullion coins..."
APMEX is selling the America the Beautiful coins for $279 each. They are also selling 5 ounce uncirculated Libertads for $249 to $549. The America the Beautiful coins seem priced in line with other silver 5 ounce coins to me. >>
They also sell the Australian 2011 Year of the Rabbit five-ouncer for $177. >>
EXACTLY! The most recent Libertads that I see listed are nearly 10 years old. All of the recent 5 o.z. ones are sold out. I would assume that they were much closer to spot. The one ounce ASEs are $2.59 over spot/ounce. I don't know squat about Libertads. It would seem that, like some of the silver Pandas, some older issues command a substantial premium. Even the APMEX listings for the older issues to which you refer discuss them in terms of rarity and not in terms of bullion.
CLEARLY the intention of the U.S. Mint's Auth. Dist. program is to sell for a reasonable premium over spot - like the 5 o.z. Year of the Rabbit, one oz. ASE, etc. (current issue, bullion coins). They are not doing so. As mentioned, I'll bet that, in the end, they won't get away w/this scott free.
<< <i>Miles, do you have a source at Apmex, or are these number available on their website? If so, where? Thanks.
FloridaBill >>
As someone had noted earlier in the thread, you put a high number in for quantity and it then corrects to the available number.
Does this make sense?
Miles
<< <i>CLEARLY the intention of the U.S. Mint's Auth. Dist. program is to sell for a reasonable premium over spot - like the 5 o.z. Year of the Rabbit, one oz. ASE, etc. (current issue, bullion coins). >>
It might be helpful to know what the actual contract the distributors sign on to says before condemning them for violating it. I know- wishful thinking. Let's just get the torches and pitchforks out and have at it.
edited to add... if the mint's intention is to have the coins sold near spot, the solution is to mint to demand, regardless of how long it takes. Somehow, I don't think that would help much, as it would just end up hacking off a different group of people.
<< <i>
<< <i>CLEARLY the intention of the U.S. Mint's Auth. Dist. program is to sell for a reasonable premium over spot - like the 5 o.z. Year of the Rabbit, one oz. ASE, etc. (current issue, bullion coins). >>
It might be helpful to know what the actual contract the distributors sign on to says before condemning them for violating it. I know- wishful thinking. Let's just get the torches and pitchforks out and have at it. >>
I think that it is safe to assume that:
1) APMEX is not going to just fax over the contract on demand.
2) I doubt that The Mint will either.
3) That the contract puts into legalease the stated intention of the Auth. Dist. program which I linked to.
Bring on the pitchforks and torches...they are very well deserved.
If all of the angry posts in this twelve hour old, 157 post count thread are any indication, I think that the Auth. Dist. who decide to abuse their status will see the orange glow from the torches over the horizon in short order....
Good night....
Lots of blue light bulbs on the screen. I'll hold down the fort.
$45.95 x 5= $229.75
While these 5 ounce hockey pucks which are NOT numismatic versions are selling for $279, $50 more than what a numismatic version is selling at the mint. Shame on APMEX for trying to r*** their customers with such disgusting prices. For what its worth I dont think the mint will be pricing the 5 ouncers more than what they would charge for a proof coin so it may be prudent to wait for the numismatic version of which you will receive a nice presentation box.
The bullion version though may become the "numnismatic" version when its all said and done, who knows
Hey i have an idea...why not create fake accounts and post tons of reviews on their website stating the price gouging, that will give them something to think about
<< <i>
<< <i>I think it's time the US Mint reconsiders how they are doing this distribution thing. Distributors selling at nearly double melt somehow does not seem to be the original intent on how the system was set up. I thought the intent was for the distributors to resell at reasonable levels....... >>
That is the intent. We should ALL call The Mint and express exactly these thoughts to them. Letters to NN and CW are not a bad idea either. >>
It would make more sense to contact your representatives in congress.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Yes- shame on APMEX for selling stuff to people at prices they voluntarily choose to pay. What scum. If they cared at all, they'd let their customers decide what the price is for the things they want to buy. >>
He. Shut up your lousy capitalist....
<< <i>Down to 435 sets left at 3:45a.m. ET on 12/04/2010.
Lots of blue light bulbs on the screen. I'll hold down the fort.
well siting at 408 sets left at 7:47 eastern time. No Way No WAy No Way. What i just can't understand is how people feel so good about spending 1500 when the guy in front of them in the line has paid 1000? That is the price these started at with Monaco, Now when i called he offered me 10 sets for 975.00 a set, i did not have 10 grand sitting in the bank, so was offered 1 set for 1100.00. Now within 2 hrs of this the price went to 1500 a set, krazy moon money. Thats fine that they can keep jacking up the prices as they see fit, BUT at what point do you buyers realize the guy in front of you got them for 1000 Why would i pay 1500 for the same product ? Yes i guess if your going to flip these than maybe 1500 is a deal, and i now realize i should have just told the guy ok for the 10 sets, Live and learn i guess...........waiting for monday
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
Why do I think that they are cherry picking through them and these 1000 are the culls. The rest will go for grading....
Just sayin'......
Hey. Shut up your lousy capitalist....
Actually, in this case The Govt. tightly controls production (by necessity of course with these Govt. issued bullion pieces). The Govt. then (by a now clearly flawed) legislative mandate also controls the select, chosen few who can get these pucks under the guise of fair distribution at a reasonalbe price w/low transaction costs, only to have those chosen, well connected few be free to totally gouge the buyers. This reminds me of another system, one quite different than free market capitalism....
I read somewhere that that includes Numismatic version also.
So that would make about 50,000 of each bullion and numismatic.
In the long run how many collector's will collect the series or will it end up like the spouse gold?
This mintage of 33,000 may be the highest of any year. But it is still the 1st year though.
Joe
If APMEX sells all theirs at that price then God bless them for it. I would not want to be in at that price and the fact that the mintage is only 33k for this widget really is not much of a selling point as that figure is for speculators/flippers. If silver holds to near its present levels and mintages remain on par, I doubt they will be able to sell future issues near to this price.
I suspect there will be precious few actual collectors so we will see a short (how long?) wave of flipping until reality sets in IMO.
Will wait for the numismatic version if it is not too exhorbitant.
Well, just Love coins, period.
therefore, there will not be masses of 1000's like that of ASE collectors being a force of demand on this series of hockey pucks....
the comparison to the 96 ASE bullion version is a horrible comparison. Entry point there was probably around $8 bucks and rode to $40-$50 wholesale, with about 500,000 collectors or more. dont expect the same out of these.
BTW, didnt we get notice that the numismatic version will be a 27,000 mintage? If so, this will not be the key, but rather a semi-key.
$10 for one set
$25 for two
Trivial but something.........
<< <i>lets be realistic - no one, no one, given the course of the current bullion markets will expect to complete a set of these over the next 10 years...... >>
...and why is that??? The yearly set still costs less than a single gold Buffalo and people collect those...
so you will have about <50,000 real collectors of these right (current proof buffalo mintage 2009/2010?)?
wow , thats a big drag on at least 100,000 planned mintage of each in coming years......so they never sell out, and then most lose interest.
it's a long, long series..........
let's see how that demand holds up when silver approaches $50, or maybe $75, given the course of bullion markets lately.....
or are you hoping for the return of 10 dollar silver prices?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I think it's time the US Mint reconsiders how they are doing this distribution thing. Distributors selling at nearly double melt somehow does not seem to be the original intent on how the system was set up. I thought the intent was for the distributors to resell at reasonable levels....... >>
That is the intent. We should ALL call The Mint and express exactly these thoughts to them. Letters to NN and CW are not a bad idea either. >>
It would make more sense to contact your representatives in congress. >>
Yes, that is top priority. Never mind that the dollar is trash and unemployment is getting higher. It can wait. We must stop greedy bullion distributors so we can get our pucks at $200.
<< <i>ok boucharda - so you will have about <50,000 real collectors of these right (current proof buffalo mintage 2009/2010?)? wow , thats a big drag on at least 100,000 planned mintage of each in coming years......so they never sell out, and then most lose interest. >>
But wasn't the "announced" mintage supposed to be 100k for each this year also?
"The United States Mint anticipates it will produce up to 500,000 America the Beautiful 5 oz silver bullion coins this year".
...and it was announced as a bullion coin only to be sold through the normal bullion network
...and now the bullion mintage is 33k
...and we will have a "collectors" version with 27k
...and you think the Mint knows what it will do for the next nine years????
...and IF the mintage does go to 100k (50k each version) next year won't that make this years coins more desirable?
...just sayin'
spot + $10 per oz - more than reasonable when they are paying spot + ~$10 per COIN.
That's $8 per oz profit.......$40 per coin, about 26% margin currently.
and I dont want to hear bs about free markets, capitalism,
this is a MEMBERS ONLY PARTY, only available to first tier distibutors, a GIFT, a guaranteed profit,
there's nothing competitive about this deal. they all get the same deal. now cap the profit by means of an agreement.
otherwise, make them available to the public at a slightly higher price and cap it that way.
<< <i>.....otherwise, make them available to the public at a slightly higher price and cap it that way. >>
Methinks they anticipated what would happen with the bullion dealers and decided to do just that.....thus the "W" version
edited for spelling
without the greedy distributors having "MEMEBRS ONLY" privaleges
which one would you rather have?
33k of 27k mintage?
<< <i>i agree, cap the markup.
spot + $10 per oz - more than reasonable when they are paying spot + ~$10 per COIN.
That's $8 per oz profit.......$40 per coin, about 26% margin currently.
and I dont want to hear bs about free markets, capitalism,
this is a MEMBERS ONLY PARTY, only available to first tier distibutors, a GIFT, a guaranteed profit,
there's nothing competitive about this deal. they all get the same deal. now cap the profit by means of an agreement.
otherwise, make them available to the public at a slightly higher price and cap it that way. >>
That $40 per coin WOULD NOT be all profit. That is gross margin from which expenses would be deducted to yield a net profit which I'd guess would be about $6 or so.
<< <i>It was mentioned earlier that APMEX would get approx. 3000 of these pucks and have put 1000 up for sale....
Why do I think that they are cherry picking through them and these 1000 are the culls. The rest will go for grading....
Just sayin'...... >>
Agree. They would be crazy not to cherry pick the high grade coins for slabbing. The rest would be sold raw.
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otherwise, the USM could "strike of the presses" and pump another 50k into the market and destroy runaway premiums.
they should have contractually limited excessive pricing from the first tier guys - at risk of losing your status for other products - just my opinion.
BTW, they still havent sold 1000 sets, at least 12 hours later.
That doesnt bode well for the potential flip - and I bet you 50% or more of those purchases are for the flip.
if you think they operate a business and take a $40 profit (this case) down to $6 - they better get into another line of work.
they already have the platform, ordering system, manpower spread over 100's of products - these type of business work real close on tight spreads.......and BTW, ship charges and cc spreads are pretty high, so I would say those are positive as well.
i will admit maybe they have another $10 in costs wrapped up in the deal. but thats it.
<< <i>which one would you rather have? >>
A lower mintage, mintmarked, non-cherrypicked, non-milk spotted, non-price gouged and, hopefully, better presented one!
<< <i> BTW, they still havent sold 1000 sets, at least 12 hours later. >>
No but they have sold $913,725 worth in less than a day
guess the demand on these is a little less, huh?
who knows. roll quality could be horrible. I wouldnt be expecting anything above 69 quality - even that is a stretch. probably 67-68.
judging by how much care was spent on quality control of 2010 ASE prfs, just how much care do you think they gave these BULLION strike 5oz coins?
I am a little surprised about the 12/17 date. 12/6 is release date. why so much time necessary?
<< <i>to the point about quality of these?
who knows. roll quality could be horrible. I wouldnt be expecting anything above 69 quality - even that is a stretch. probably 67-68.
judging by how much care was spent on quality control of 2010 ASE prfs, just how much care do you think they gave these BULLION strike 5oz coins?
I am a little surprised about the 12/17 date. 12/6 is release date. why so much time necessary? >>
We expect to be able to ship these items by December 17th or sooner.
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<< <i>and your earlier point about proof buff's - they have sold at a rate of 10,000+ in the first day.....
guess the demand on these is a little less, huh?
Ummmm...never used the word "proof" when taking about the Gold Buffalo.
...Do you think APMEX is the ONLY company selling these???? There is no way to tell how many of these have been sold by all authorized merchants...I would guess close to 10,000 in the 1st day as PRESALES! Tomorrow will be the 1st day they will be shipped to the distributors ....and it will be a few days before the real sales begin...Hard to define "1st day" numbers
Monday may bring about many other competitors.
Bring them on.
<< <i>BAJER -
if you think they operate a business and take a $40 profit (this case) down to $6 - they better get into another line of work.
they already have the platform, ordering system, manpower spread over 100's of products - these type of business work real close on tight spreads.......and BTW, ship charges and cc spreads are pretty high, so I would say those are positive as well.
i will admit maybe they have another $10 in costs wrapped up in the deal. but thats it. >>
So they don't pay any taxes on their profits? My point is that the $40 markup isn't pure profit. Most large businesses are in the 10% net range after ALL expenses. Granted APMEX could be higher than the net 15% I figured them for.
<< <i>It was mentioned earlier that APMEX would get approx. 3000 of these pucks and have put 1000 up for sale....
Why do I think that they are cherry picking through them and these 1000 are the culls. The rest will go for grading....
Just sayin'...... >>
Man, I'd hate to end up with milk spotted Elsies at that price.
<< <i>Apmex site says they take returns within 3 days of delivery. If they only send culls they'll get a lot of em back >>
Yep, cept 95% of purchasers won't know the difference. A board membeer years ago handpicked some ASEs for me from the Mint's kiosk in Union Station in D.C. The gal said to him "you must be a collector". I guess most people just buy em and forget em.
I stand corrected...apparently they did get 3,000 sets. 1,000 sets available for the subscription customers. Once that is sold out, I suspect the remaining sets will be repriced..higher..
I don't think the mint has any say in the prices that the bullion distributors sell them for, but they may limited them in the future to the bullion distributors that are price gouging. By law they have to distibute these as bullion so they have no choice. I expect the set from the mint to sell for $995 if silver is at $30. This is there usual premium mark up on all their offerings.
Box of 20
"A numismatic version of the three-inch, five-ounce silver coins, also minted in .999 silver, will be available for purchase directly from the United States Mint during the first quarter of 2011. The maximum mintage for these collector versions is set at 135,000 units-27,000 units for each of the five 2010 coins."
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