Wow, with those premiums I'm probably better off getting back into the First Spouse gold program... much less of a premium over spot prices and much lower mintages. (of course much lower demand too - at least there is at this time)
I considered getting some of these if the premium over spot were in line with the First Spouse Gold coins - around 25-35% over melt prices... but at double the melt prices I'm not interested.
<< <i>Q]That is how I see it and I think that is what the howling is about. >>
That, and the reduced flipping opportunities, I'm sure...
OOOOuuuuch! >>
With this much premium right off the gate how much more can this set climb...ballpark...in the future anyways? >>
Everyone would love to know that (at least those who concern themselves with appreciation issues). So many factors yet unknown. For the near future I would think they could double from here but may need to see other mintages to go higher. Also, being an odd (huge) size there may not be the usual collector base in these. I think they meet Erics criteria for a cohesive set and I guess that might help.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
Asked the MCM customer service earlier today and asked them if their National Park 5 Oz rounds will be sold graded and they said Yes. IF Apmex sells out their 900 over the weekend there is no reason that MCM will not price theirs North of the current Apmex price especially if they are going to be graded >>
Where is MCM getting their coins from? They are not a Distributor. They have to get them from the same people we buy from. One would have to then ask if they are then getting a better deal.
Just type in a high order number, like 800 and it will tell you the remaining amount.
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
<< <i>There's a moral to the story. I think that it has something to do with a goose that lays golden eggs... >>
I agree.
Sometimes, it is quite interesting to watch the pure speculation. I can't imagine too many folks actually wanting to collect these things, particularly at a huge premium. I can understand the 1-off type of thing (someone likes that particular site, or for a gift, but the whole series? )
If dealers can buy them @spot + $10, and assuming spot price is $30, so a set will cost them $800. Assume each dealer get 1,000 sets and the selling price is $1,400 ==> Profit = $600 * 1,000 = $600,000 !
At the primary distribution level, the US Mint has warned authorized purchasers to set premiums at a level "competitive with those charged for other bullion coins." I think the primary dealers will do their best to follow this mandate, but at subsequent levels of distribution, market forces will take precedence and drive prices higher.
At the primary distribution level, the US Mint has warned authorized purchasers to set premiums at a level "competitive with those charged for other bullion coins." I think the primary dealers will do their best to follow this mandate, but at subsequent levels of distribution, market forces will take precedence and drive prices higher.
If that is indeed Mint Policy, then Apmex is really doing the public a dirty deal. They are a primary distributor and that edict applies to them.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
With about 10 distributors and 33,000 sets, each distributor gets 3300 sets.
If APMEX is selling 1000 sets, it would seem logical they are selling the other sets to other dealers.
I would think the other dealers are getting a better deal then we are. However, other dealers would have to price them as APMEX in order to make any money.
The authorized distributors have ignored this mandate from the Mint and should be sanctioned accordingly.
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
<< <i>well, looks like the pile on at APMEX has stopped. >>
A lot of people that were interested in these probably don't realize they are for sale . They were thinking Monday. I predict APMEX will be through the rest of the 600 or so they have right now by noon on Monday.
From the other thread, the list of distributors are:
Does it mean that some the distributors will also sell it? Have anyone contact any of those directly?
1. A-Mark Precious Metals, Los Angeles - Silver, Gold, Platinum 2. Dillon Guage Inc. Dallas - Silver Only 3. Jack Hunt Coin Brokers, Buffalo NY - Silver Only 4. Prudential Securities Inc. New York City - Silver, Gold, Platinum 5. The Gold Center, Springfield, Ill - Silver Only 6. Coin's 'N Things, Bridgewater MASS - Silver Only 7. Fidelitrade Inc, Wilmington Del - Silver Only 8. MTB, New York City - Silver, Gold, Platinum 9. SCB/Mocatta Bullion, New York City - Silver, Gold, Platinum 10. Commerzbank International, Luxembourg/New York City - Silver and Gold 11. Deutsche Bank AG, Frankfurt Germany - Silver, Gold Only 12. Union Bank of Switzerland, Zurich - Silver, Gold, Platinum 13. Hang Seng Bank, Hong Kong - Silver, Gold Only 14. Tinaka Kikinzoku Kogyo K.K., Tokyo - Gold, Platinum Only
How utterly disappointing. I USED to like APMEX - about the only company that I'd buy bullion from. This is just SUCH a hose job. This is more - very strong - evidence that the sale of these NEVER should have been via the authorized dealer network!!!
Does anyone know APMEX's cost on these? WHAT A RIP!!!!!!!!
<< <i>I think it's time the US Mint reconsiders how they are doing this distribution thing. Distributors selling at nearly double melt somehow does not seem to be the original intent on how the system was set up. I thought the intent was for the distributors to resell at reasonable levels....... >>
That is the intent. We should ALL call The Mint and express exactly these thoughts to them. Letters to NN and CW are not a bad idea either.
Yes- shame on APMEX for selling stuff to people at prices they voluntarily choose to pay. What scum. If they cared at all, they'd let their customers decide what the price is for the things they want to buy.
<< <i>How utterly disappointing. I USED to like APMEX - about the only company that I'd buy bullion from. This is just SUCH a hose job. This is more - very strong - evidence that the sale of these NEVER should have been via the authorized dealer network!!!
Does anyone know APMEX's cost on these? WHAT A RIP!!!!!!!! >>
It's been publicized that the distributors were charged $9.75 over spot for these. They should be sanctioned for failure to follow the Mint's requirement to offer the coins to the public for "as narrow a spread between buy and sell prices as prudent business judgment permits" and "in a manner which ensures that that they will be available, accessible, and affordable to all members of the public." [According to CoinNews.net]
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
<< <i>How utterly disappointing. I USED to like APMEX - about the only company that I'd buy bullion from. This is just SUCH a hose job. This is more - very strong - evidence that the sale of these NEVER should have been via the authorized dealer network!!!
Does anyone know APMEX's cost on these? WHAT A RIP!!!!!!!! >>
I had to bite the bullet and also buy these, I base this on three things.
1] The bullion version next year should go much higher mintage, making these the key coins for the bullion series. The other 2010 ones with the P mintmark may do as well but I wanted to spread my chances.
2] The only mintage comparison I could see to these are the 2007 reverse 2008 silver eagles that sell for more than these with a higher mintage so at least these will hold their value and are 5 times the bullion amount.
3]Silver prices should continue higher making these a play on the future. I expect to see silver at $50 an ounce so this price gouge is close to that now.
4] Little downside based on 1 to 3, upside is probably a double to triple.
Well for you business guys out there 78% is not net profit but gross profit. It costs the business money to take orders process them ship them, answer questions, store them, insure them while they are in storage, take returns on them, handle complaints about them, pay employees, pay tax, pay dues............... Pay the light bill.........and more.
"Yes- shame on APMEX for selling stuff to people at prices they voluntarily choose to pay. What scum. If they cared at all, they'd let their customers decide what the price is for the things they want to buy."
That's not why people are mad. It's because they are authorized distributors who are supposed to sell at a reasonable mark up. No one complains when HSN or any of the usual advertisers in CW or NN sell U.S. Mint products which are/were available from The Mint directly at a high price. We all had our chance at these.
It's the fact the authorized buyers are totally abusing their status w/this issue. I think that, in the end, this absolute gouging will lead to revisions of The Mint policy.
I may not be a bad idea to contact your Congressman/woman and Senators to voice your displeasure. These should have NEVER been legislated to have been sold by the Auth. Purch. network.
I just love this from the APMEX email:
"While supplies last, you can purchase all five coins at a very attractive introductory price at APMEX.com.
Start your collection off right with the very first coins of this series, and secure your collection of one of the most talked about United States Mint Bullion products ever released! Don't delay - we expect these coins to sell out very quickly and we will NOT get more at this price."
What a FANTASTIC intro. price!!!
463 in stock at 01:48. Not a bad few hours and few hundred grand profit at all for APMEX!!!!!!!!
Edited: 455 left at 02:26. Incredible for this hour and at this price....eight sets sold in less than 40 minutes at two in the morning EST....Over 550 sets sold since 18:45 EST (when I got the email from APMEX and, I assume, folks started ordering). Unreal.
<< <i>How utterly disappointing. I USED to like APMEX - about the only company that I'd buy bullion from. This is just SUCH a hose job. This is more - very strong - evidence that the sale of these NEVER should have been via the authorized dealer network!!!
Does anyone know APMEX's cost on these? WHAT A RIP!!!!!!!! >>
hmmmm.....were you honestly wanting to buy and get a set to keep? Or, were you wanting them to flip, in which case, apmex just beat you to it? ("you" can be you, or many other posters here, so don't take it personal). I really doubt many folks (yes, there will be a few) are wanting to buy these and hold them as a collectible, that are frothing for them right now.....
Look at all the "Wow! From 100,000 to 33,000 mintage! Get in now!" type of comments in the different threads on these....
Doesn't seem to be stopping people from buying them, does it? >>
That's NOT the point. Have you not read the other posts in this thread??
The point is that these authorized distributors are GROSSLY ABUSING their status which they have been granted by The Mint. THAT is the point. I believe that, in the end, this is such a gross violation that some form of remediation will be forced upon these authorized distributors, as it should be.
As to the question of whether I or anyone planned to buy to keep or sell, again this is totally irrelevant. Neither I nor any of the posters here (I assume) have been granted special status by The Mint to obtain these coins at a small premium over spot in a totally anti-competitive manner to then go out and gouge buyers. In fact, this is specifically what the authorized purchers are NOT supposed to do.
If items are available to anyone who is paying attention on The Mint site then all is fair. Selecting a very small group of Authorized Distributors who in turn have agreed to make the bullion available to the public at a very reasonable mark up but who then abuse this status to totally gouge is UNACCEPTABLE.
Such practices are precisely why anti-monopoly laws exist.
As mentioned, I believe that the odds are strongly in favor of corrective action being taken over this flagrant abuse of the Authorized Distributor network.
I had to bite the bullet and also buy these, I base this on three things.
1] The bullion version next year should go much higher mintage, making these the key coins for the bullion series. The other 2010 ones with the P mintmark may do as well but I wanted to spread my chances.
2] The only mintage comparison I could see to these are the 2007 reverse 2008 silver eagles that sell for more than these with a higher mintage so at least these will hold their value and are 5 times the bullion amount.
3]Silver prices should continue higher making these a play on the future. I expect to see silver at $50 an ounce so this price gouge is close to that now.
4] Little downside based on 1 to 3, upside is probably a double to triple.
-----------------------------------------------
I agree with everything in this post but still haven't pulled the trigger. Think I'll sleep on it decide tomorrow.
461 left at 1:57am ET! I might not be sleeping much!
<< <i>That's NOT the point. Have you not read the other posts in this thread?? >>
I've read them.
<< <i>The point is that these authorized distributors are GROSSLY ABUSING their status which they have been granted by The Mint. >>
Yes, based on blog posts. Forgive me if I've missed the mint's announcement of that finding- could you post a link to such? Thanks!
edited to add... on second thought, mint announcements won't do, either. What's needed in order to determine whether or not APMEX is acting wrongly is a copy of their contract with the the mint describing their obligations as a distributor for these items.
<< <i>That's NOT the point. Have you not read the other posts in this thread?? >>
I've read them.
<< <i>The point is that these authorized distributors are GROSSLY ABUSING their status which they have been granted by The Mint. >>
Yes, based on blog posts. Forgive me if I've missed the mint's announcement of that finding- could you post a link to such? Thanks! >>
Sorry for my tone mrpotatoheadd, I thought that you were just (successfully) egging us on while fully understanding what these authorized distributors are supposed to be doing.
This is a link to terms for plat. auth. distributors, but it applies to the other metals as well. As you can see, the point of the program is to make these bullion coins available to the public at a reasonable, competitive price relative to spot w/low transaction costs - i.e., the EXACT opposite of what they are doing.
It is I who am sorry if my anger over this abuse (combined with this late hour and being exhausted) has spilled over....
Please see the following U.S. Mint link which relates SPECIFICALLY to the Silver bullion auth. distributor program and which specifically addresses this issue. It is crystal clear that these distributors are acting in GROSS VIOLATION of the spirit and stated intention of the very policy which they agreed to in order to be granted their status. It is CLEAR the intention of this U.S. Mint policy is NOT to create a small group of distributors who can buy for a small markup and then totally gouge the public.
<< <i>hmmmm.....were you honestly wanting to buy and get a set to keep? Or, were you wanting them to flip, in which case, apmex just beat you to it? ("you" can be you, or many other posters here, so don't take it personal). I really doubt many folks (yes, there will be a few) are wanting to buy these and hold them as a collectible, that are frothing for them right now..... ... >>
We had a large number of people here trying to get in on a bulk buy of five monster boxes. We had firm commitments from people way before the Mint even announced the mintages on these. So there are many people here interested in the coins, not on their flip potential.
Has it ever crossed anyone's mind that the us mint/us government might be enjoying some of the fruits of these inflated prices? Just some food for thought.
Comments
I considered getting some of these if the premium over spot were in line with the First Spouse Gold coins - around 25-35% over melt prices... but at double the melt prices I'm not interested.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
<< <i>Q]That is how I see it and I think that is what the howling is about. >>
That, and the reduced flipping opportunities, I'm sure...
OOOOuuuuch! >>
With this much premium right off the gate how much more can this set climb...ballpark...in the future anyways?
Coinfame,Kaelasdad,Type2,UNLVino,MICHAELDIXON
Justacommeman,tydye,78saen,123cents,blue62vette,Segoja,Nibanny
<< <i>
<< <i>Q]That is how I see it and I think that is what the howling is about. >>
That, and the reduced flipping opportunities, I'm sure...
OOOOuuuuch! >>
With this much premium right off the gate how much more can this set climb...ballpark...in the future anyways? >>
Everyone would love to know that (at least those who concern themselves with appreciation issues). So many factors yet unknown. For the near future I would think they could double from here but may need to see other mintages to go higher. Also, being an odd (huge) size there may not be the usual collector base in these. I think they meet Erics criteria for a cohesive set and I guess that might help.
<< <i>Looks like they started with around 1000 sets and are now at about 760 or so, about an hour or two after the initial offering.
Miles >>
Miles where do you see this figure in the APMEX website? I cant find it...
Coinfame,Kaelasdad,Type2,UNLVino,MICHAELDIXON
Justacommeman,tydye,78saen,123cents,blue62vette,Segoja,Nibanny
<< <i>
<< <i>I'll wait for MCM to price theirs. >>
Asked the MCM customer service earlier today and asked them if their National Park 5 Oz rounds will be sold graded and they said Yes. IF Apmex sells out their 900 over the weekend there is no reason that MCM will not price theirs North of the current Apmex price especially if they are going to be graded
Where is MCM getting their coins from? They are not a Distributor. They have to get them from the same people we buy from. One would have to then ask if they are then getting a better deal.
<< <i>Miles where do you see this figure in the APMEX website? I cant find it... >>
I think APMEX took it down. I don't see it either.
<< <i>
<< <i>Miles where do you see this figure in the APMEX website? I cant find it... >>
I think APMEX took it down. I don't see it either. >>
his multiple order numbers.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>There's a moral to the story. I think that it has something to do with a goose that lays golden eggs... >>
I agree.
Sometimes, it is quite interesting to watch the pure speculation. I can't imagine too many folks actually wanting to collect these things, particularly at a huge premium.
I can understand the 1-off type of thing (someone likes that particular site, or for a gift, but the whole series?
Will be interesting to see what happens.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
598 left as of 11:55pm EST
Coinfame,Kaelasdad,Type2,UNLVino,MICHAELDIXON
Justacommeman,tydye,78saen,123cents,blue62vette,Segoja,Nibanny
FloridaBill
Successful BST Transactions!SIconbuster, Meltdown, Mission16, slothman2000, RGjohn, braddick, au58lover, allcoinsrule, commemdude, gerard, lablade, PCcoins, greencopper, kaz, tydye, cucamongacoin, mkman123, SeaEaglecoins, Doh!, AnkurJ, Airplanenut, ArizonaJack, JJM,Tee135,LordMarcovan, Swampboy, piecesofme, Ahrensdad,
Assume each dealer get 1,000 sets and the selling price is $1,400 ==>
Profit = $600 * 1,000 = $600,000 !
<< <i>sorry if this is a repost dealer mark-up per coin $9.75 >>
From the article:
At the primary distribution level, the US Mint has warned authorized purchasers to set premiums at a level "competitive with those charged for other bullion coins." I think the primary dealers will do their best to follow this mandate, but at subsequent levels of distribution, market forces will take precedence and drive prices higher.
If that is indeed Mint Policy, then Apmex is really doing the public a dirty deal. They are a primary distributor and that edict applies to them.
I knew it would happen.
If APMEX is selling 1000 sets, it would seem logical they are selling the other sets to other dealers.
I would think the other dealers are getting a better deal then we are. However, other dealers would have to price them as APMEX in order to make any money.
I think $225 to $250 would have been more fair.
<< <i>This is the first time the US Mint has made a Silver 5 oz 25 cent coin isn't it? >>
Yes the very first time.
Coinfame,Kaelasdad,Type2,UNLVino,MICHAELDIXON
Justacommeman,tydye,78saen,123cents,blue62vette,Segoja,Nibanny
<< <i>well, looks like the pile on at APMEX has stopped. >>
A lot of people that were interested in these probably don't realize they are for sale . They were thinking Monday. I predict APMEX will be through the rest of the 600 or so they have right now by noon on Monday.
<< <i>I think $225 to $250 would have been more fair. >>
Agreed!
I don't really blame APMEX for charging what they can get, but $995 for a 5 pc set would be reasonable and allow them a good profit.
Who knows though? Maybe these will bring $500/ea in January?
Coinfame,Kaelasdad,Type2,UNLVino,MICHAELDIXON
Justacommeman,tydye,78saen,123cents,blue62vette,Segoja,Nibanny
<< <i>552 sets left as of 12/4/10 12:25am EST. Will these sell out by tomorrow morning?
Where are you finding that number on the website?
Does it mean that some the distributors will also sell it? Have anyone contact any of those directly?
1. A-Mark Precious Metals, Los Angeles - Silver, Gold, Platinum
2. Dillon Guage Inc. Dallas - Silver Only
3. Jack Hunt Coin Brokers, Buffalo NY - Silver Only
4. Prudential Securities Inc. New York City - Silver, Gold, Platinum
5. The Gold Center, Springfield, Ill - Silver Only
6. Coin's 'N Things, Bridgewater MASS - Silver Only
7. Fidelitrade Inc, Wilmington Del - Silver Only
8. MTB, New York City - Silver, Gold, Platinum
9. SCB/Mocatta Bullion, New York City - Silver, Gold, Platinum
10. Commerzbank International, Luxembourg/New York City - Silver and Gold
11. Deutsche Bank AG, Frankfurt Germany - Silver, Gold Only
12. Union Bank of Switzerland, Zurich - Silver, Gold, Platinum
13. Hang Seng Bank, Hong Kong - Silver, Gold Only
14. Tinaka Kikinzoku Kogyo K.K., Tokyo - Gold, Platinum Only
<< <i>Have anyone contact any of those directly? >>
It's been reported that 5. The Gold Center, Springfield, Ill - Silver Only has already committed their entire allotment.
Does anyone know APMEX's cost on these? WHAT A RIP!!!!!!!!
<< <i>I think it's time the US Mint reconsiders how they are doing this distribution thing. Distributors selling at nearly double melt somehow does not seem to be the original intent on how the system was set up. I thought the intent was for the distributors to resell at reasonable levels....... >>
That is the intent. We should ALL call The Mint and express exactly these thoughts to them. Letters to NN and CW are not a bad idea either.
<< <i>How utterly disappointing. I USED to like APMEX - about the only company that I'd buy bullion from. This is just SUCH a hose job. This is more - very strong - evidence that the sale of these NEVER should have been via the authorized dealer network!!!
Does anyone know APMEX's cost on these? WHAT A RIP!!!!!!!! >>
It's been publicized that the distributors were charged $9.75 over spot for these. They should be sanctioned for failure to follow the Mint's requirement to offer the coins to the public for "as narrow a spread between buy and sell prices as prudent business judgment permits" and "in a manner which ensures that that they will be available, accessible, and affordable to all members of the public." [According to CoinNews.net]
<< <i>How utterly disappointing. I USED to like APMEX - about the only company that I'd buy bullion from. This is just SUCH a hose job. This is more - very strong - evidence that the sale of these NEVER should have been via the authorized dealer network!!!
Does anyone know APMEX's cost on these? WHAT A RIP!!!!!!!! >>
29.38 * 5 + 9.75 = $156.65
Selling them for $279 gives them a 78% profit.
I know its not the same thing, but a 5 oz perth mint, collector type finish, will "only" send you back 180ish...
Is there some nice presentation box... COA... etc.?
Is anyone else thinking about the recent complaints of the silver proof eagle... or the .999 spots?
1] The bullion version next year should go much higher mintage, making these the key coins for the bullion series. The other 2010 ones with the P mintmark may do as well but I wanted to spread my chances.
2] The only mintage comparison I could see to these are the 2007 reverse 2008 silver eagles that sell for more than these with a higher mintage so at least these will hold their value and are 5 times the bullion amount.
3]Silver prices should continue higher making these a play on the future. I expect to see silver at $50 an ounce so this price gouge is close to that now.
4] Little downside based on 1 to 3, upside is probably a double to triple.
That's not why people are mad. It's because they are authorized distributors who are supposed to sell at a reasonable mark up. No one complains when HSN or any of the usual advertisers in CW or NN sell U.S. Mint products which are/were available from The Mint directly at a high price. We all had our chance at these.
It's the fact the authorized buyers are totally abusing their status w/this issue. I think that, in the end, this absolute gouging will lead to revisions of The Mint policy.
I may not be a bad idea to contact your Congressman/woman and Senators to voice your displeasure. These should have NEVER been legislated to have been sold by the Auth. Purch. network.
I just love this from the APMEX email:
"While supplies last, you can purchase all five coins at a very attractive introductory price at APMEX.com.
Start your collection off right with the very first coins of this series, and secure your collection of one of the most talked about United States Mint Bullion products ever released! Don't delay - we expect these coins to sell out very quickly and we will NOT get more at this price."
What a FANTASTIC intro. price!!!
463 in stock at 01:48. Not a bad few hours and few hundred grand profit at all for APMEX!!!!!!!!
Edited: 455 left at 02:26. Incredible for this hour and at this price....eight sets sold in less than 40 minutes at two in the morning EST....Over 550 sets sold since 18:45 EST (when I got the email from APMEX and, I assume, folks started ordering). Unreal.
<< <i>What a FANTASTIC intro. price!!! >>
Doesn't seem to be stopping people from buying them, does it?
<< <i>Ordered 2 sets ... For comparison..how much are the 1 oz bullion 1996 ASE's, with a much higher mintage, selling for? >>
Apples vs lemons
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>How utterly disappointing. I USED to like APMEX - about the only company that I'd buy bullion from. This is just SUCH a hose job. This is more - very strong - evidence that the sale of these NEVER should have been via the authorized dealer network!!!
Does anyone know APMEX's cost on these? WHAT A RIP!!!!!!!! >>
hmmmm.....were you honestly wanting to buy and get a set to keep? Or, were you wanting them to flip, in which case, apmex just beat you to it?
("you" can be you, or many other posters here, so don't take it personal).
I really doubt many folks (yes, there will be a few) are wanting to buy these and hold them as a collectible, that are frothing for them right now.....
Look at all the "Wow! From 100,000 to 33,000 mintage! Get in now!" type of comments in the different threads on these....
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>What a FANTASTIC intro. price!!! >>
Doesn't seem to be stopping people from buying them, does it? >>
That's NOT the point. Have you not read the other posts in this thread??
The point is that these authorized distributors are GROSSLY ABUSING their status which they have been granted by The Mint. THAT is the point. I believe that, in the end, this is such a gross violation that some form of remediation will be forced upon these authorized distributors, as it should be.
As to the question of whether I or anyone planned to buy to keep or sell, again this is totally irrelevant. Neither I nor any of the posters here (I assume) have been granted special status by The Mint to obtain these coins at a small premium over spot in a totally anti-competitive manner to then go out and gouge buyers. In fact, this is specifically what the authorized purchers are NOT supposed to do.
If items are available to anyone who is paying attention on The Mint site then all is fair. Selecting a very small group of Authorized Distributors who in turn have agreed to make the bullion available to the public at a very reasonable mark up but who then abuse this status to totally gouge is UNACCEPTABLE.
Such practices are precisely why anti-monopoly laws exist.
As mentioned, I believe that the odds are strongly in favor of corrective action being taken over this flagrant abuse of the Authorized Distributor network.
1] The bullion version next year should go much higher mintage, making these the key coins for the bullion series. The other 2010 ones with the P mintmark may do as well but I wanted to spread my chances.
2] The only mintage comparison I could see to these are the 2007 reverse 2008 silver eagles that sell for more than these with a higher mintage so at least these will hold their value and are 5 times the bullion amount.
3]Silver prices should continue higher making these a play on the future. I expect to see silver at $50 an ounce so this price gouge is close to that now.
4] Little downside based on 1 to 3, upside is probably a double to triple.
-----------------------------------------------
I agree with everything in this post but still haven't pulled the trigger. Think I'll sleep on it decide tomorrow.
461 left at 1:57am ET! I might not be sleeping much!
<< <i>That's NOT the point. Have you not read the other posts in this thread?? >>
I've read them.
<< <i>The point is that these authorized distributors are GROSSLY ABUSING their status which they have been granted by The Mint. >>
Yes, based on blog posts. Forgive me if I've missed the mint's announcement of that finding- could you post a link to such? Thanks!
edited to add... on second thought, mint announcements won't do, either. What's needed in order to determine whether or not APMEX is acting wrongly is a copy of their contract with the the mint describing their obligations as a distributor for these items.
Let the frothy frenzy unsue!!!!
<< <i>
<< <i>That's NOT the point. Have you not read the other posts in this thread?? >>
I've read them.
<< <i>The point is that these authorized distributors are GROSSLY ABUSING their status which they have been granted by The Mint. >>
Yes, based on blog posts. Forgive me if I've missed the mint's announcement of that finding- could you post a link to such? Thanks! >>
Sorry for my tone mrpotatoheadd, I thought that you were just (successfully) egging us on while fully understanding what these authorized distributors are supposed to be doing.
This is a link to terms for plat. auth. distributors, but it applies to the other metals as well. As you can see, the point of the program is to make these bullion coins available to the public at a reasonable, competitive price relative to spot w/low transaction costs - i.e., the EXACT opposite of what they are doing.
It is I who am sorry if my anger over this abuse (combined with this late hour and being exhausted) has spilled over....
Thanks, Ron
http://www.usmint.gov/consumer/PlatinumAPRequirements.pdf
***EDITED:
Please see the following U.S. Mint link which relates SPECIFICALLY to the Silver bullion auth. distributor program and which specifically addresses this issue. It is crystal clear that these distributors are acting in GROSS VIOLATION of the spirit and stated intention of the very policy which they agreed to in order to be granted their status. It is CLEAR the intention of this U.S. Mint policy is NOT to create a small group of distributors who can buy for a small markup and then totally gouge the public.
http://www.usmint.gov/consumer/SilverAPRequirements.pdf
<< <i>hmmmm.....were you honestly wanting to buy and get a set to keep? Or, were you wanting them to flip, in which case, apmex just beat you to it?
("you" can be you, or many other posters here, so don't take it personal).
I really doubt many folks (yes, there will be a few) are wanting to buy these and hold them as a collectible, that are frothing for them right now.....
... >>
We had a large number of people here trying to get in on a bulk buy of five monster boxes. We had firm commitments from people way before the Mint even announced the mintages on these. So there are many people here interested in the coins, not on their flip potential.