The National Park Service is probably broke and couldn't buy these coins, I imagine the mint would be wise to issue these coins later this week to dealers with a limit on how much they sell for. All coins must be available for sale to the public on that day, period, and all must be sold in individual orders. Sorry secondary dealers, the public comes first. One limit per household. 1 price is set for all coins, no changes. Any dealer breaking this get spanked.
The alternative is to give all the coins to apmex since they have the ordering capacity and do it all through this 1 dealer at a price set by the mint. 1 limit per household.
there is the letter of the law and the spirit of the law.
the spirit of the law, to me, says "bullion" and "bullion dealers" >>
I definitely respect that, but the law is what the law says, and the only limit it places on how many units the Director can buy is a minimum, not a maximum. This is an easy solution. Let the National Park Service, which provides a service that everyone in America can enjoy, pocket the profits. If the APs are really that upset that they are not given this pork, they can quit the US Mint distribution business, and other enterprising people will come along to make the money they leave on the table.
<< <i>It's a bummer that none of the parks have expressed an interest in this. It also doesn't surprise me too much not to see any, as the agencies are slow to get their acts together. >>
Folks headed to the National Parks Gift Centers are not necessarily going there to buy silver bullion as much as books/photographs/pictures/momentos about the Park they are visiting. I can fully understand no interest.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
I can't imagine any way in which the National Park Service even if they acquired the coins could sell them fairly. If the coins went out at each of the 5 sites then Yosemite would not only be swamped, but a few people would corner the market on these or if they limited them to 1 per person the line for these would stretch out to Reno and a few would buy up the coins as they left the gift shops or bus people in.
Prices would be astronomical very quickly.
They need to sell them over the internet through a site capable of doing that. i don't think having to call an 800 number is even fair as they have only so many phones to take orders. You need a large scale site to handle this, not the gift shop in Yosemite or these dealers that don't use the internet. The Park Service is smart to stay away from this, they can't manage it in this scale, and the mint can barely handle the big order days already.
The mint is going to release these to their AP. It's just a matter of time. There will be strict regulation on pricing. My only variable is whether there will be a household limit or not and who will ultimately end up with these. Afterall, the original problem was pricing not order limits.
<< <i>"Director, or the Director's designee, may resell or repackage such numismatic items as the Director determines to be appropriate."
Consign them back to the Mint, or to an AP under strict pricing controls. Problem solved. >>
I interpret this part of the law as "bullion delears plus designee can pass through without cost to an affiliated entity associated with the honored national park sites ((who then get to repackage and reprice them))"
the designee isn't a seller as much as an profit-less intermediary between the mint and the companies the NPS.gov people have contracted to run the on site gift shops and hotels.
<< <i>The mint is going to release these to their AP. It's just a matter of time. There will be strict regulation on pricing. My only variable is whether there will be a household limit or not and who will ultimately end up with these. Afterall, the original problem was pricing not order limits. >>
Problem: 1)The AP's do not sell to the public (well, one does) so household limits won't work
...............2) The can regulate the price the AP's can sell them for but the dealers who will buy them in quantity will determine the real price (and we know where that will go)
...............3) the end result will be pricing by the dealers much higher than the APMEX pricing than everyone whined about
...............Nothing gained other than the potential for more price complaining
Do you really, no REALLY, think the Mint has the capability of getting these items up for sale, packaged and sold in 3 weeks as the law requires???
Ain't gonna happen.....
edited to add: regarding a previous post regarding cheaper prices......a SINGLE puck just sold for $682 on the Bay.....and you think the market will price the sets below $1395????
<< <i>Do you really, no REALLY, think the Mint has the capability of getting these items up for sale, packaged and sold in 3 weeks as the law requires???
Ain't gonna happen.....
edited to add: regarding a previous post regarding cheaper prices......a SINGLE puck just sold for $682 on the Bay.....and you think the market will price the sets below $1395???? >>
Why not? Especially since the buyer is buying something the seller does not have and probably will not be issued singly. In other words, its a non-sale!
Anybody could run a bogus listing and have some buddy make an outregeous offer or bid. What these "fantasy" auctions are is just that, a fantasy auction for a currently unavailable product.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
If the Mint retracts the issue then a lot of people are gonna be upset. They should just learn from the experience and make adjustments. A blind man could have seen this problem coming.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
All the coins have been sold. It's just a matter of what the final price will be. >>
YOU do not know if they have been sold since orders were not being accepted until 12/6 (Yesterday). Whether or not ANY of the AP's got orders in has not been published.
AND, BTW, the US Mint can cancel any sale after the request has been submitted and the coins not yet delivered.
I've had them cancelled and I'm sure many others have had them cancelled as well.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Latest plan for the Mint to distribute the five-ounce hockey pucks is to sell them retail from a trailer right next to "Old Faithful" in Yellowstone National Park at Noon on Dec. 31, 2010. Limit one per purchase. Snowmobile rentals from West Yellowstone, Montana will be offered at $50/hr. Hot chocolate will be available for $75 per cup. TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>I bet the mint will come up with a plan that will allow us to order these things "to demand", and will sell them next year. >>
The only ones you'll be able to order "to demand" are the 2011's because the Mint will have a full year to make them. They ain't gonna make any more 2010's.
This thread is like the movie "Back to the Future" starring 19Lyds as Michael J. Fox and MsMorrisine as the professor----------------------------------------BigE
I'm just on understanding why anyone would talk about a HH limit. At least for APMEX.
Here's the facts:
18 hours to sell, everyone had plenty of time to buy; you could buy as much as your CC could hold; and it still took 18 HOURS to sell ONLY 1000 sets, out of 33,000. Nobody missed out on this opportunity.
So, how would that be fair to the people who ordered and were totally willing to pay the original price? The ones who put their money on the line while people on THIS board said NO WAY, it's a ripeoff, the ones who bought BEFORE anything was on ebay or anyplace else.
<< <i>I'm just on understanding why anyone would talk about a HH limit. At least for APMEX.
Here's the facts:
18 hours to sell, everyone had plenty of time to buy; you could buy as much as your CC could hold; and it still took 18 HOURS to sell ONLY 1000 sets, out of 33,000. Nobody missed out on this opportunity.
>>
The way APMEX behaved was very unbecoming of a USM distributor. They violated the terms of the distribution agreement with the USM.
Those of us who purchased (including myself) from APMEX did so hoping to get on board before the price skyrocketed further. Basically, it was panic mode not to miss out on beautiful coins that will probably become series keys.
If they sell them at an inflated price, they are breaking the agreement. If they sell them at a fair price, the coins will be strong-armed by a few. The only way I see to do this is selling at a fair price with household limits. Of course, people can find loopholes but it basically works.
Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
"`(2) AVAILABILITY FOR SALE- Bullion coins minted under paragraph (1)– `(A) shall become available for sale no sooner than the first day of the calendar year in which the circulating quarter dollar of which such bullion coin is a duplicate is issued; and `(B) may only be available for sale during the year in which such circulating quarter dollar is issued."
I interpret this as: The USM must send the coins to their distributors by year's end. They have 3.5 weeks.
Interesting that there is nothing in the legislation pointing to a numismatic 5 oz piece. BUT...refer to the following:
"`(6) ISSUANCE- `(A) QUALITY OF COINS- The Secretary may mint and issue such number of quarter dollars of each design selected under paragraph (3) in uncirculated and proof qualities as the Secretary determines to be appropriate. `(B) SILVER COINS- Notwithstanding subsection (b), the Secretary may mint and issue such number of quarter dollars of each design selected under paragraph (3) as the Secretary determines to be appropriate, with a content of 90 percent silver and 10 percent copper."
The law doesn't say anything about a numismatic 5 oz. version. However, it only states that silver coins must be 90% silver. Nothing specifying the size.
Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
What a huge gamble for the seller! Not only do they lose if they do receive delivery (the price will surely rise) but if they don't, what a mess to refund.
www.wsj.com has a new article on the 5 oz silver coins.
APMEX sold the 1,000 sets in 380 transactions or 2.6 sets per order. APMEX noted that another distributor sold all their allocation to less than 10 customers.
"`(2) AVAILABILITY FOR SALE- Bullion coins minted under paragraph (1)– `(A) shall become available for sale no sooner than the first day of the calendar year in which the circulating quarter dollar of which such bullion coin is a duplicate is issued; and `(B) may only be available for sale during the year in which such circulating quarter dollar is issued."
I interpret this as: The USM must send the coins to their distributors by year's end. They have 3.5 weeks. >>
Actually No since the "sale" of the coin must occur before the end of the year. Delivery is something altogether different.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Some were expecting to give these coins as gifts for Christmas so it is time for the mint to decide and decide quickly. Even Santa is demanding a quick response from the North Pole.
"`(2) AVAILABILITY FOR SALE- Bullion coins minted under paragraph (1)– `(A) shall become available for sale no sooner than the first day of the calendar year in which the circulating quarter dollar of which such bullion coin is a duplicate is issued; and `(B) may only be available for sale during the year in which such circulating quarter dollar is issued."
I interpret this as: The USM must send the coins to their distributors by year's end. They have 3.5 weeks. >>
Actually No since the "sale" of the coin must occur before the end of the year. Delivery is something altogether different. >>
Perhaps you are right. I looked up the ASE legislation (Liberty Coin Act) because I thought they'd be similar. They weren't.
In that case, it'll work something like this? The coins MUST go on sale before year's end. The distributors must stop selling after Dec. 31. If they don't all sell, do the distributors send the coins back to the mint for melting?
This leaves 3.5 weeks for the mint to distribute the coins and the distributors to sell. The window is closing.
Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
<< <i>I'm just on understanding why anyone would talk about a HH limit. At least for APMEX.
Here's the facts:
18 hours to sell, everyone had plenty of time to buy; you could buy as much as your CC could hold; and it still took 18 HOURS to sell ONLY 1000 sets, out of 33,000. Nobody missed out on this opportunity.
So, how would that be fair to the people who ordered and were totally willing to pay the original price? The ones who put their money on the line while people on THIS board said NO WAY, it's a ripeoff, the ones who bought BEFORE anything was on ebay or anyplace else.
That would be as unjust as APMEX charging $1395.
Just my opinion.
>>
Well, first off, APMEX was the ONLY one offering these and therefore appeared to be the ONLY one with them for sale giving perhaps the appearance to some of either pay the $1,395 or wait for some other price to roll along.
Additionally, as for the price, if the market STARTS at $1,395, there will always be laggers that are willing to pay MORE IF they think they can flip them for more or do not want to run the risk of not getting ANY AT ALL.
It's no secret that first time product releases pull more money for the first couple of weeks until folks can brush off the "I jst gotta have it" fever and come to their senses.
As far as I know, APMEX set the Monopoly Bar at nearly double bullion prices.
At least, thats my take on it.
Second off, many people on these forums that either participate or lurk, ordered multiple sets so it's not like 1,000 folks will get a set. As many as half are destined for the aftermarket flipping party (as witnessed by the quoted eBay sales of a product which folks do not have) which is based solely upon APMEX's prices.
Tell someone they aren't going to get something because its RARE L@@K! (which this one certainly isn't) and they'll extend themselves just to get one.
The Market for these coins has been blown way out of proportion for their actual bullion value which is the ONLY REAL VALUE these pieces have. From a collectible standpoint, I think few Moderns collectors are equipped financially to see this entire set through to the finish and 90% of the buyers are gonna bail after the first year once they realize they'll have to commit to buying 560 ounces of silver spread over 112 bullion and collector version 3" coins which are gonna eat up some serious storage space. (This won't be a bookshelf collection folks.) The price of silver could skyrocket -- OR -- it could collapse back to $7.00 an ounce. (There certainly doesn't appear to be a shortage now does there?)What then?
IMO, this entire fiasco is simply a buying frenzy which was initiated by APMEX. I knew it would happen and since I'm not about to start collecting these pointless bullion wonders dreamt up by the Silver Lobby and written into some pointless law, I'll just consider myself as having saved $16,800 over the next 10 years.
Once people come to their senses, in about a year, these will drop down to a smidge over bullion value. Low mintages or not!
Wanna buy an Elizabeth Monroe First Spouse in MS69 (PCGS Graded) for double bullion value ($1,402). Its a low mintage coin with only 4,519 minted. (W@W!!!) A terrific investment for the future and sure to increase in price!
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i> Wanna buy an Elizabeth Monroe First Spouse in MS69 (PCGS Graded) for double bullion value ($1,402). Its a low mintage coin with only 4,519 minted. (W@W!!!) A terrific investment for the future and sure to increase in price! >>
Scarcity is tied to interest in the subject matter. I'd argue that the national park series is about 10x more interesting than uninteresting spouses. Nearly 289 million people visited the US Parks in 2009. A very small percentage of these people will be coin collectors with a budget to collect these. But I'd argue that 33k does represent scarcity for this series with its wider appeal.
~0.01% of the total visitors visiting the US parks in 2009 would be able to have one of these sets.
Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
<< <i>I knew it would happen and since I'm not about to start collecting these pointless bullion wonders dreamt up by the Silver Lobby and written into some pointless law, I'll just consider myself as having saved $16,800 over the next 10 years.
Once people come to their senses, in about a year, these will drop down to a smidge over bullion value. Low mintages or not!
Wanna buy an Elizabeth Monroe First Spouse in MS69 (PCGS Graded) for double bullion value ($1,402). Its a low mintage coin with only 4,519 minted. (W@W!!!) A terrific investment for the future and sure to increase in price! >>
Comments
<< <i>He has to buy at least 1000 >>
Maybe we could sweet talk him into doing a bulk buy for us.
The alternative is to give all the coins to apmex since they have the ordering capacity and do it all through this 1 dealer at a price set by the mint. 1 limit per household.
<< <i>
there is the letter of the law and the spirit of the law.
the spirit of the law, to me, says "bullion" and "bullion dealers" >>
I definitely respect that, but the law is what the law says, and the only limit it places on how many units the Director can buy is a minimum, not a maximum. This is an easy solution. Let the National Park Service, which provides a service that everyone in America can enjoy, pocket the profits. If the APs are really that upset that they are not given this pork, they can quit the US Mint distribution business, and other enterprising people will come along to make the money they leave on the table.
<< <i>It's a bummer that none of the parks have expressed an interest in this. It also doesn't surprise me too much not to see any, as the agencies are slow to get their acts together. >>
Folks headed to the National Parks Gift Centers are not necessarily going there to buy silver bullion as much as books/photographs/pictures/momentos about the Park they are visiting. I can fully understand no interest.
The name is LEE!
Prices would be astronomical very quickly.
They need to sell them over the internet through a site capable of doing that. i don't think having to call an 800 number is even fair as they have only so many phones to take orders. You need a large scale site to handle this, not the gift shop in Yosemite or these dealers that don't use the internet. The Park Service is smart to stay away from this, they can't manage it in this scale, and the mint can barely handle the big order days already.
Consign them back to the Mint, or to an AP under strict pricing controls. Problem solved.
<< <i>what a way for the homeless people in Calif. to be paid with a $2 bill for their line standing troubles! >>
I've already thought about picking up a bunch of day laborers and squeezing them into my SUV for a trip to Yosemite.
<< <i>
<< <i>what a way for the homeless people in Calif. to be paid with a $2 bill for their line standing troubles! >>
I've already thought about picking up a bunch of day laborers and squeezing them into my SUV for a trip to Yosemite.
I'll see you there! It's only a 2 hour drive for me.
<< <i>"Director, or the Director's designee, may resell or repackage such numismatic items as the Director determines to be appropriate."
Consign them back to the Mint, or to an AP under strict pricing controls. Problem solved. >>
I interpret this part of the law as "bullion delears plus designee can pass through without cost to an affiliated entity associated with the honored national park sites ((who then get to repackage and reprice them))"
the designee isn't a seller as much as an profit-less intermediary between the mint and the companies the NPS.gov people have contracted to run the on site gift shops and hotels.
<< <i>The mint is going to release these to their AP. It's just a matter of time. There will be strict regulation on pricing. My only variable is whether there will be a household limit or not and who will ultimately end up with these. Afterall, the original problem was pricing not order limits. >>
Problem: 1)The AP's do not sell to the public (well, one does) so household limits won't work
...............2) The can regulate the price the AP's can sell them for but the dealers who will buy them in quantity will determine the real price (and we know where that will go)
...............3) the end result will be pricing by the dealers much higher than the APMEX pricing than everyone whined about
...............Nothing gained other than the potential for more price complaining
they they wont have the privalege of offering the coins
they will be sold direct.
the price will be LOWER. That's one thing this will guarantee.
Ain't gonna happen.....
edited to add: regarding a previous post regarding cheaper prices......a SINGLE puck just sold for $682 on the Bay.....and you think the market will price the sets below $1395????
<< <i>Do you really, no REALLY, think the Mint has the capability of getting these items up for sale, packaged and sold in 3 weeks as the law requires???
Ain't gonna happen.....
edited to add: regarding a previous post regarding cheaper prices......a SINGLE puck just sold for $682 on the Bay.....and you think the market will price the sets below $1395???? >>
Why not? Especially since the buyer is buying something the seller does not have and probably will not be issued singly. In other words, its a non-sale!
Anybody could run a bogus listing and have some buddy make an outregeous offer or bid. What these "fantasy" auctions are is just that, a fantasy auction for a currently unavailable product.
The name is LEE!
All the coins have been sold. It's just a matter of what the final price will be.
If APMEX could have waited a couple days, instead of doing their 'presale', these would have been in the mail, end of story.
I don't know who's making the decision over there, but I'd be upset on two accounts, who set the price and who said do a presale ?!?!?!
<< <i>This HouseHold limit talk is moot.
All the coins have been sold. It's just a matter of what the final price will be. >>
Not if the Mint has suspended sales to all 11 of the APs.
<< <i>This HouseHold limit talk is moot.
All the coins have been sold. It's just a matter of what the final price will be. >>
YOU do not know if they have been sold since orders were not being accepted until 12/6 (Yesterday). Whether or not ANY of the AP's got orders in has not been published.
AND, BTW, the US Mint can cancel any sale after the request has been submitted and the coins not yet delivered.
I've had them cancelled and I'm sure many others have had them cancelled as well.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>They are going to the AP and they are going to the people who have orders at the AP's. >>
Well...... I guess that settles that.
Send Ed Moy a memo letting him know of your decision so we can be done with it.
The name is LEE!
to sell them retail from a trailer right next to "Old Faithful" in
Yellowstone National Park at Noon on Dec. 31, 2010. Limit one per
purchase. Snowmobile rentals from West Yellowstone, Montana will be
offered at $50/hr. Hot chocolate will be available for $75 per cup.
TD
<< <i>This HouseHold limit talk is moot. >>
Not so.
None of the coins have been sent to ANY AP's as far as we are aware.
Even the one AP selling last weekend only sold 1,000 sets of it's apparent 3,000 set allotment.
Other AP's contacted - one said he isnt selling ANY, after they stated they sold them all?
This is a total mess.
Like I said before, IF (and its a BIG IF) the AP's get to sell these, there will be STRICT guidelines and HH limits.
For all those who bought several sets last weekend, you most likely will never see more than 1.
That's my opinion.
<< <i>I bet the mint will come up with a plan that will allow us to order these things "to demand", and will sell them next year. >>
The only ones you'll be able to order "to demand" are the 2011's because the Mint will have a full year to make them. They ain't gonna make any more 2010's.
$995 a set sounds just about right at $30 silver.
if you get a call from someone saying they've got them or will be getting them,
>>> Do not believe them.
ALL sales from the mint have been suspended.
Do not call, do not spend $2800.
Here's the facts:
18 hours to sell, everyone had plenty of time to buy; you could buy as much as your CC could hold; and it still took 18 HOURS to sell ONLY 1000 sets, out of 33,000. Nobody missed out on this opportunity.
So, how would that be fair to the people who ordered and were totally willing to pay the original price? The ones who put their money on the line while people on THIS board said NO WAY, it's a ripeoff, the ones who bought BEFORE anything was on ebay or anyplace else.
That would be as unjust as APMEX charging $1395.
Just my opinion.
but we gotta give these to the people.
these are the people's coins.
save some sets for the smithsonian and melt the rest of those class dividing money disks.
I told you I'm no socialist.
a HH limit would calm the insanity.
it would give the less coin and less internet savvy time to source them.
they can always lift the limit if the sales start to slow to a trickle.
<< <i>I'm no socialist.
but we gotta give these to the people.
these are the people's coins.
save some sets for the smithsonian and melt the rest of those class dividing money disks.
I told you I'm no socialist.
a HH limit would calm the insanity.
it would give the less coin and less internet savvy time to source them.
they can always lift the limit if the sales start to slow to a trickle. >>
Shoot, where is the fun in that?
<< <i>I'm just on understanding why anyone would talk about a HH limit. At least for APMEX.
Here's the facts:
18 hours to sell, everyone had plenty of time to buy; you could buy as much as your CC could hold; and it still took 18 HOURS to sell ONLY 1000 sets, out of 33,000. Nobody missed out on this opportunity.
The way APMEX behaved was very unbecoming of a USM distributor. They violated the terms of the distribution agreement with the USM.
Those of us who purchased (including myself) from APMEX did so hoping to get on board before the price skyrocketed further. Basically, it was panic mode not to miss out on beautiful coins that will probably become series keys.
If they sell them at an inflated price, they are breaking the agreement. If they sell them at a fair price, the coins will be strong-armed by a few. The only way I see to do this is selling at a fair price with household limits. Of course, people can find loopholes but it basically works.
<< <i>They are NOT going to be proofs.....
.
..
.at least not yet
Proofs, Satins, BU's , whatever, if its from the Mint, if its scarce, we can flip it >
"`(2) AVAILABILITY FOR SALE- Bullion coins minted under paragraph (1)–
`(A) shall become available for sale no sooner than the first day of the calendar year in which the circulating quarter dollar of which such bullion coin is a duplicate is issued; and
`(B) may only be available for sale during the year in which such circulating quarter dollar is issued."
I interpret this as: The USM must send the coins to their distributors by year's end. They have 3.5 weeks.
Interesting that there is nothing in the legislation pointing to a numismatic 5 oz piece. BUT...refer to the following:
"`(6) ISSUANCE-
`(A) QUALITY OF COINS- The Secretary may mint and issue such number of quarter dollars of each design selected under paragraph (3) in uncirculated and proof qualities as the Secretary determines to be appropriate.
`(B) SILVER COINS- Notwithstanding subsection (b), the Secretary may mint and issue such number of quarter dollars of each design selected under paragraph (3) as the Secretary determines to be appropriate, with a content of 90 percent silver and 10 percent copper."
The law doesn't say anything about a numismatic 5 oz. version. However, it only states that silver coins must be 90% silver. Nothing specifying the size.
Hot Springs 5 ounce
<< <i>Coins are bringing close to $700 EACH on ebay now.
Hot Springs 5 ounce
What a huge gamble for the seller! Not only do they lose if they do receive delivery (the price will surely rise) but if they don't, what a mess to refund.
Miles
APMEX sold the 1,000 sets in 380 transactions or 2.6 sets per order. APMEX noted that another distributor sold all their allocation to less than 10 customers.
<< <i>The following is from the legislation:
"`(2) AVAILABILITY FOR SALE- Bullion coins minted under paragraph (1)–
`(A) shall become available for sale no sooner than the first day of the calendar year in which the circulating quarter dollar of which such bullion coin is a duplicate is issued; and
`(B) may only be available for sale during the year in which such circulating quarter dollar is issued."
I interpret this as: The USM must send the coins to their distributors by year's end. They have 3.5 weeks. >>
Actually No since the "sale" of the coin must occur before the end of the year. Delivery is something altogether different.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>900 >>
Wake me up when we reach 1,395...
<< <i>
<< <i>The following is from the legislation:
"`(2) AVAILABILITY FOR SALE- Bullion coins minted under paragraph (1)–
`(A) shall become available for sale no sooner than the first day of the calendar year in which the circulating quarter dollar of which such bullion coin is a duplicate is issued; and
`(B) may only be available for sale during the year in which such circulating quarter dollar is issued."
I interpret this as: The USM must send the coins to their distributors by year's end. They have 3.5 weeks. >>
Actually No since the "sale" of the coin must occur before the end of the year. Delivery is something altogether different. >>
Perhaps you are right. I looked up the ASE legislation (Liberty Coin Act) because I thought they'd be similar. They weren't.
In that case, it'll work something like this? The coins MUST go on sale before year's end. The distributors must stop selling after Dec. 31. If they don't all sell, do the distributors send the coins back to the mint for melting?
This leaves 3.5 weeks for the mint to distribute the coins and the distributors to sell. The window is closing.
<< <i>I'm just on understanding why anyone would talk about a HH limit. At least for APMEX.
Here's the facts:
18 hours to sell, everyone had plenty of time to buy; you could buy as much as your CC could hold; and it still took 18 HOURS to sell ONLY 1000 sets, out of 33,000. Nobody missed out on this opportunity.
So, how would that be fair to the people who ordered and were totally willing to pay the original price? The ones who put their money on the line while people on THIS board said NO WAY, it's a ripeoff, the ones who bought BEFORE anything was on ebay or anyplace else.
That would be as unjust as APMEX charging $1395.
Just my opinion.
Well, first off, APMEX was the ONLY one offering these and therefore appeared to be the ONLY one with them for sale giving perhaps the appearance to some of either pay the $1,395 or wait for some other price to roll along.
Additionally, as for the price, if the market STARTS at $1,395, there will always be laggers that are willing to pay MORE IF they think they can flip them for more or do not want to run the risk of not getting ANY AT ALL.
It's no secret that first time product releases pull more money for the first couple of weeks until folks can brush off the "I jst gotta have it" fever and come to their senses.
As far as I know, APMEX set the Monopoly Bar at nearly double bullion prices.
At least, thats my take on it.
Second off, many people on these forums that either participate or lurk, ordered multiple sets so it's not like 1,000 folks will get a set. As many as half are destined for the aftermarket flipping party (as witnessed by the quoted eBay sales of a product which folks do not have) which is based solely upon APMEX's prices.
Tell someone they aren't going to get something because its RARE L@@K! (which this one certainly isn't) and they'll extend themselves just to get one.
The Market for these coins has been blown way out of proportion for their actual bullion value which is the ONLY REAL VALUE these pieces have. From a collectible standpoint, I think few Moderns collectors are equipped financially to see this entire set through to the finish and 90% of the buyers are gonna bail after the first year once they realize they'll have to commit to buying 560 ounces of silver spread over 112 bullion and collector version 3" coins which are gonna eat up some serious storage space. (This won't be a bookshelf collection folks.) The price of silver could skyrocket -- OR -- it could collapse back to $7.00 an ounce. (There certainly doesn't appear to be a shortage now does there?)What then?
IMO, this entire fiasco is simply a buying frenzy which was initiated by APMEX. I knew it would happen and since I'm not about to start collecting these pointless bullion wonders dreamt up by the Silver Lobby and written into some pointless law, I'll just consider myself as having saved $16,800 over the next 10 years.
Once people come to their senses, in about a year, these will drop down to a smidge over bullion value. Low mintages or not!
Wanna buy an Elizabeth Monroe First Spouse in MS69 (PCGS Graded) for double bullion value ($1,402). Its a low mintage coin with only 4,519 minted. (W@W!!!) A terrific investment for the future and sure to increase in price!
The name is LEE!
Box of 20
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Wanna buy an Elizabeth Monroe First Spouse in MS69 (PCGS Graded) for double bullion value ($1,402). Its a low mintage coin with only 4,519 minted. (W@W!!!) A terrific investment for the future and sure to increase in price! >>
Scarcity is tied to interest in the subject matter. I'd argue that the national park series is about 10x more interesting than uninteresting spouses. Nearly 289 million people visited the US Parks in 2009. A very small percentage of these people will be coin collectors with a budget to collect these. But I'd argue that 33k does represent scarcity for this series with its wider appeal.
~0.01% of the total visitors visiting the US parks in 2009 would be able to have one of these sets.
<< <i>I knew it would happen and since I'm not about to start collecting these pointless bullion wonders dreamt up by the Silver Lobby and written into some pointless law, I'll just consider myself as having saved $16,800 over the next 10 years.
Once people come to their senses, in about a year, these will drop down to a smidge over bullion value. Low mintages or not!
Wanna buy an Elizabeth Monroe First Spouse in MS69 (PCGS Graded) for double bullion value ($1,402). Its a low mintage coin with only 4,519 minted. (W@W!!!) A terrific investment for the future and sure to increase in price! >>
couldn't agree more....