Good to know that when the 5oz Proofs come out in 2011, the *real* professionals will get to work on properly distributing these scarce units....we members of the PCGS U.S. Coin Forum !
We did it for such low mintage products such as the 2006 W Unc Platinum, the 2008 W Buffs, the Washington Coin Covers, Lincoln Chronicles…….
Interesting it says the collector versions will have a different finish than the bullion versions.
A Mint spokesman said the numismatic version of the coin "will have a different finish," not a proof finish, and bear the "P" mint mark for the U.S. Mint at Philadelphia. >>
The mint counter employees who have toured the philly mint while coins were being made called them "proof-like."
They also were not told which version they were viewing.
Still, if they are not proofs, they should be high quality. (and you know how that goes. spots! scratches! dings!)
I can't find the article but I remember reading that they will be uncirculated coins that will be "blasted" with a high pressure ceramic dust which will give them a finished surface different from the bullion coins (and will have the P mint mark)
I'm going to keep looking for that friggin' article
this is from the new edition coin world,,,,,The numismatic version will under-go a "vapor blasting" technique after striking, resulting in a finish replicating that used on 3 inch bronze mint medals. The machine uses a water vapor and ceramic media mix, It is similiar to sand blasting, but instead of using dry compressed air(propelled at high speed) it uses a compressed wet vapor. The finish is applied to the coin after striking and not to the die. This will provide a consistent coin to coin finish........................................................
<< <i>this is from the new edition coin world,,,,,The numismatic version will under-go a "vapor blasting" technique after striking, resulting in a finish replicating that used on 3 inch bronze mint medals. The machine uses a water vapor and ceramic media mix, It is similiar to sand blasting, but instead of using dry compressed air(propelled at high speed) it uses a compressed wet vapor. The finish is applied to the coin after striking and not to the die. This will provide a consistent coin to coin finish........................................................ >>
<< <i>If the Mint can prove that the AP's violated the agreement..... >>
Hmmmm. In the link Ms provided, I'm not seeing an "Agreement". I'm seeing some instructions on how to apply and how to purchase, but certainly not an agreement.
I also see:
"Due in part to the commodity-like, investment nature of these coins characterized by constantly fluctuating precious metal prices, the United States Mint has determined that the most effective and efficient means for bullion coin distribution is through the use of the well-established silver bullion coin distribution network in the private sector. This network consists of hundreds of coin and precious metals dealers, participating banks, brokerage companies and other financial intermediaries."
To me, this says that the US Mint makes the determination on "how" to sell bullion silver and "who" to sell that bullion to. >>
That may be true.
It is a list of requirements and a description of what the US Mint expects.
In fact it goes on to say that the mint is using this as a means to get a good distribution, AND that this is not for the benefit of the public (the APs).
<< <i>The United States Mint reserves the right to modify the qualifying criteria for APs of silver bullion coins as deemed necessary for the successful continuation of the silver bullion coin program. The criteria for the silver bullion coins are not issued for the benefit of the public and do not create any right of action in any federal court or in any administrative body. >>
Here is the snippet of the law: "‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—In addition to the authorized dealers utilized by the Secretary in distributing bullion coins"
I wonder how tightly the Mint hands are tied by that little phrase in the law. Congress seemingly intended these to go through those channels.
However, the mint does say that they use these channels for their benefit and not the public. If only the law had been worded differently. "In addition to the standard sales channels for other mint products,"
So, while I'm in somewhat of agreement with 19Lyds, that these are guidelines, we don't know what kind of contract or agreement they have officially entered into. However, it would seem that any agreement would likely follow these guidelines.
<< <i>this is from the new edition coin world,,,,,The numismatic version will under-go a "vapor blasting" technique after striking, resulting in a finish replicating that used on 3 inch bronze mint medals. The machine uses a water vapor and ceramic media mix, It is similiar to sand blasting, but instead of using dry compressed air(propelled at high speed) it uses a compressed wet vapor. The finish is applied to the coin after striking and not to the die. This will provide a consistent coin to coin finish........................................................ >>
If something is done individually to each example, how can it be said to be consistent from one example to another? Wouldn't there be some minor fluctuations?
<< <i>this is from the new edition coin world,,,,,The numismatic version will under-go a "vapor blasting" technique after striking, resulting in a finish replicating that used on 3 inch bronze mint medals. The machine uses a water vapor and ceramic media mix, It is similiar to sand blasting, but instead of using dry compressed air(propelled at high speed) it uses a compressed wet vapor. The finish is applied to the coin after striking and not to the die. This will provide a consistent coin to coin finish........................................................ >>
If something is done individually to each example, how can it be said to be consistent from one example to another? Wouldn't there be some minor fluctuations? >>
if they handle them like the medals, there will be major fluctuations.
The medals' finishes seem fairly consitent. (close enough for gov't work)
<< <i>What is to prevent a company like Apmex from setting up another corporation as the AP which would "sell" them to Apmex at the mandated spot + prices followed by Apmex selling them at whatever price they want? I could see that happening if the Mint starts cracking down on them. The private sector usually seems to be one step ahead of the air heads in the government. >>
5 years in the market place.
"An applying firm may also be engaged in the retail purchase and sale of silver bullion coins, but it must be able to demonstrate that for a minimum of five continuous years it has maintained a well-established wholesale network of retail coin and precious metal dealers to which it distributes and markets these coins."
Correction, 3 years minimum:
"In lieu of the five-year history requirement, the United States Mint may consider an applying firm’s relative experience/stature in the industry if a firm has a minimum of three years continuous experience in the purchase and sale of silver bullion coins at a wholesale level and/or can also demonstrate it has other commodities trading experience, futures and/or electronic trading activities deemed acceptable by the United States Mint." >>
So why couldn't APMEX sell them to another "FRIENDLY" middleman for $1 over cost and let that "FRIENDLY" middleman [who is not bound by any mint restrictions] do the gouging? >>
Nothing other than their integrity and ethical conduct.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Easy fix for the mint...Release numis in 3 months and release bullion at the same time. If the mint prices the coins at $250 each then that is what the market price will be at that time, matter of fact bullion coins should less since people will pay less for bullion as opposed to numis.
Each 3-in die is individually cut using automated die cutting equipment. The dies are then manually deburred and retouched by a mint engraver. It takes about a day to do the die cleanup.
<< <i>If the Mint can prove that the AP's violated the agreement..... >>
Hmmmm. In the link Ms provided, I'm not seeing an "Agreement". I'm seeing some instructions on how to apply and how to purchase, but certainly not an agreement.
I also see:
"Due in part to the commodity-like, investment nature of these coins characterized by constantly fluctuating precious metal prices, the United States Mint has determined that the most effective and efficient means for bullion coin distribution is through the use of the well-established silver bullion coin distribution network in the private sector. This network consists of hundreds of coin and precious metals dealers, participating banks, brokerage companies and other financial intermediaries."
To me, this says that the US Mint makes the determination on "how" to sell bullion silver and "who" to sell that bullion to. >>
That may be true.
It is a list of requirements and a description of what the US Mint expects.
In fact it goes on to say that the mint is using this as a means to get a good distribution, AND that this is not for the benefit of the public (the APs).
<< <i>The United States Mint reserves the right to modify the qualifying criteria for APs of silver bullion coins as deemed necessary for the successful continuation of the silver bullion coin program. The criteria for the silver bullion coins are not issued for the benefit of the public and do not create any right of action in any federal court or in any administrative body. >>
Here is the snippet of the law: "‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—In addition to the authorized dealers utilized by the Secretary in distributing bullion coins"
I wonder how tightly the Mint hands are tied by that little phrase in the law. Congress seemingly intended these to go through those channels.
However, the mint does say that they use these channels for their benefit and not the public. If only the law had been worded differently. "In addition to the standard sales channels for other mint products,"
So, while I'm in somewhat of agreement with 19Lyds, that these are guidelines, we don't know what kind of contract or agreement they have officially entered into. However, it would seem that any agreement would likely follow these guidelines. >>
This is exactly what I am saying, the US Mint defined "what" the sales method would be since they could not handle the selling of millions of bullion coins "at the time" (1986). Today selling a million pieces is a piece of cake via the Internet and US Mint Web Page in addition to "mail order sales. Mail Order sales was the ONLY way to buy from the US Mint in 1986.
I believe that the US Mint has the capability to change things midstream since the actual Authorized Purchasers Program was NOT dictated by law but "developed" by the US Mint to meet its needs.
As for Congress? The only thing that folks know for certain is that including the 3" pucks in the ATB Law was stupid (unless you're a silver planchet supplier ) and including the wording "authorized dealers" in the law was just as dumb!
It's like they don't have a clue.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>Yup...the Mint has showed their power by suspending distribution and are now making an impact on the market...
A set just sold on Ebay for $2558 and mentioned the suspension/delay
Yup....everyone can afford a set now
In hindsight the $1395 from APMEX will probably be the cheapest price you will ever see on the open market
edited for spelling >>
What fool! That buyer will be kicking himself in the arse when the lower mintage collectors editions come out at less than half that price. >>
Lets stick with the theme, conspiracy: The Distributors are bidding up the ebay prices so they can show the Mint their initial price was fair.
Second, the Mint Pucks and the Bullion Pucks are different, so if you want a full set, you need both.
I predict little to no effect of the Mint coins release, on the bullion coin price, because after the initial sale, that only 27,000 households will have, the Mint coins will immediatly sell for much much more on the secondary market.
A set just sold on Ebay for $2558 and mentioned the suspension/delay >>
Lets stick with the theme, conspiracy: The Distributors are bidding up the ebay prices so they can show the Mint their initial price was fair.
>>
It makes a lot of sense. For such a tiny market, creating a "market price" can be easily done and the profit will be handsome.
In the 1996-7, when there was a real estate property boom in Hong Kong, I knew some of the real estate agents created false transactions just to boost up the "market price" for a specific location, so the hogs would follow the "market price" and get slaughtered.
<< <i>this is from the new edition coin world,,,,,The numismatic version will under-go a "vapor blasting" technique after striking, resulting in a finish replicating that used on 3 inch bronze mint medals. The machine uses a water vapor and ceramic media mix, It is similiar to sand blasting, but instead of using dry compressed air(propelled at high speed) it uses a compressed wet vapor. The finish is applied to the coin after striking and not to the die. This will provide a consistent coin to coin finish........................................................ >>
Should also assure that there will be no milk spots or other surface defects.
Buying Mt. Hood hockey pucks with EXTRA LEAVES on the 127th tree from the left!!!!!!!!!
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
A flood of complaints has caused the U.S. Mint to postpone the beginning of sales of the 5-ounce America the Beautiful silver bullion coins, which was slated for yesterday.
The Mint announced its decision late yesterday afternoon.
Interested buyers in the secondary market were confronted by prices that were at least in some cases 62 percent higher than the projected cost to the Mint’s authorized purchasers of the price of five ounces of silver plus $9.75 per coin. This cost at yesterday’s $30 silver price works out to roughly $160 a coin.
Numismatic News readers sent me e-mail reports of what they were seeing and/or paying.
Readers consider the new bullion coin sellers to be gouging.
The Mint apparently agrees or it would not have taken this unprecedented step in delaying the program because of the complaints.
Where do we go from here?
With a mintage of just 33,000 per design, the so-called bullion coins seem scarce at the moment, with high price quotes reflecting the perception. No one seems to be figuring in the 27,000 numismatic pieces to be sold directly to collectors next year.
The same perception occurred when the First Spouse designs were introduced in 2007 with mintages capped at 40,000. It took until the fourth design for buyers to figure out that such a mintage level is not all that scarce. But such a future change in market perception of America the Beautiful 5-ounce silver coins is purely theoretical now. It might never happen.
The difference is that the Mint sold the First Spouse coins directly to the collector market and not through the Authorized Purchaser network.
For the moment, the Mint is perceived as aiding and abetting secondary market price gouging. It is a position it does not want to be in and we all now wait to see what steps it will take to change this.
The Mint will be months from releasing any of these coins to the public. The change in distribution pattern must be approved by Treasury officials. The numismatic version was not going to be sold until late 1st quarter 2011 anyway, so it is my guess they will not have any of these for sale before February.
It will be interesting to watch how the values trends as I suspect what will ultimately occur is that both coins will be released in the same relative time frame. Now of course, you have 27K of W coins and 33K w/o the mint mark. And a total of 300K coins for the year.
Retired United States Mint guy, now working on an Everyman Type Set.
Just sell them to the director of the National Park Service and be done with it:
(3) Distribution. (A) In general. In addition to the authorized dealers utilized by the Secretary in distributing bullion coins and solely for purposes of distributing bullion coins issued under this subsection, the Director of the National Park Service, or the designee of the Director, may purchase numismatic items issued under this subsection, but only in units of no fewer than 1,000 at a time, and the Director, or the Director's designee, may resell or repackage such numismatic items as the Director determines to be appropriate. (B) Resale. The Director of the National Park Service, or the designee of the Director, may resell, at cost and without repackaging, numismatic items acquired by the Director or such designee under subparagraph (A) to any party affiliated with any national site honored by a quarter dollar under subsection (t) for repackaging and resale by such party in the same manner and to the same extent as such party would be authorized to engage in such activities under subparagraph (A) if the party were acting as the designee of the Director under such subparagraph.
The national Park service is in addition to the authorized dealers, so the dealers can't be excluded. All I can say is the mint needs to decide this ASAP, I can't see how they can drag this out to February. By then this thread will be at 10,000 and people will be angry beyond belief.
It's a bummer that none of the parks have expressed an interest in this. It also doesn't surprise me too much not to see any, as the agencies are slow to get their acts together.
Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
<< <i>The national Park service is in addition to the authorized dealers, so the dealers can't be excluded. >>
I disagree. The statute says, "in addition to the authorized dealers utilized . . . ." If the Park Service handles all distribution, no authorized dealers will be utilized.
<< <i>The national Park service is in addition to the authorized dealers, so the dealers can't be excluded. >>
I disagree. The statute says, "in addition to the authorized dealers utilized . . . ." If the Park Service handles all distribution, no authorized dealers will be utilized. >>
there is the letter of the law and the spirit of the law.
the spirit of the law, to me, says "bullion" and "bullion dealers"
Comments
A set just sold on Ebay for $2558 and mentioned the suspension/delay
Yup....everyone can afford a set now
In hindsight the $1395 from APMEX will probably be the cheapest price you will ever see on the open market
edited for spelling
<< <i>Yup...the Mint has showed their power by suspending distribution and are now making an impact on the market...
A set just sold on Ebay for $2558 and mentioned the suspension/delay
Yup....everyone can afford a set now >>
What a bargain! $2558
We did it for such low mintage products such as the 2006 W Unc Platinum, the 2008 W Buffs, the Washington Coin Covers, Lincoln Chronicles…….
My buying family network is forming now.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
..
.at least not yet
<< <i>Wall Street Journal article on these coins
Interesting it says the collector versions will have a different finish than the bullion versions.
A Mint spokesman said the numismatic version of the coin "will have a different finish," not a proof finish, and bear the "P" mint mark for the U.S. Mint at Philadelphia. >>
The mint counter employees who have toured the philly mint while coins were being made called them "proof-like."
They also were not told which version they were viewing.
Still, if they are not proofs, they should be high quality. (and you know how that goes. spots! scratches! dings!)
What does it mean?
"Printed Waiting to Ship, Order Status: Checked into B Vault"
edit: Sorry for the re-post
I'm going to keep looking for that friggin' article
<< <i>Yup...the Mint has showed their power by suspending distribution and are now making an impact on the market...
A set just sold on Ebay for $2558 and mentioned the suspension/delay
Yup....everyone can afford a set now
In hindsight the $1395 from APMEX will probably be the cheapest price you will ever see on the open market
edited for spelling >>
That person cannot guarantee a set unless they are an insider at one of the 11-12 APs.
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
<< <i>this is from the new edition coin world,,,,,The numismatic version will under-go a "vapor blasting" technique after striking, resulting in a finish replicating that used on 3 inch bronze mint medals. The machine uses a water vapor and ceramic media mix, It is similiar to sand blasting, but instead of using dry compressed air(propelled at high speed) it uses a compressed wet vapor. The finish is applied to the coin after striking and not to the die. This will provide a consistent coin to coin finish........................................................
THAT's where I saw it......Thanks..
<< <i>
<< <i>If the Mint can prove that the AP's violated the agreement..... >>
Hmmmm. In the link Ms provided, I'm not seeing an "Agreement". I'm seeing some instructions on how to apply and how to purchase, but certainly not an agreement.
I also see:
"Due in part to the commodity-like, investment nature of these coins characterized by constantly fluctuating precious metal prices, the United States Mint has determined that the most effective and efficient means for bullion coin distribution is through the use of the well-established silver bullion coin distribution network in the private sector. This network consists of hundreds of coin and precious metals dealers, participating banks, brokerage companies and other financial intermediaries."
To me, this says that the US Mint makes the determination on "how" to sell bullion silver and "who" to sell that bullion to. >>
That may be true.
It is a list of requirements and a description of what the US Mint expects.
In fact it goes on to say that the mint is using this as a means to get a good distribution, AND that this is not for the benefit of the public (the APs).
<< <i>The United States Mint reserves the right to modify the qualifying criteria for APs of silver bullion coins as deemed necessary for the successful continuation of the silver bullion coin program. The criteria for the silver bullion coins are not issued for the benefit of the public and do not create any right of action in any federal court or in any administrative body. >>
Here is the snippet of the law:
"‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—In addition to the authorized dealers
utilized by the Secretary in distributing bullion coins"
I wonder how tightly the Mint hands are tied by that little phrase in the law. Congress seemingly intended these to go through those channels.
However, the mint does say that they use these channels for their benefit and not the public. If only the law had been worded differently. "In addition to the standard sales channels for other mint products,"
So, while I'm in somewhat of agreement with 19Lyds, that these are guidelines, we don't know what kind of contract or agreement they have officially entered into. However, it would seem that any agreement would likely follow these guidelines.
<< <i>this is from the new edition coin world,,,,,The numismatic version will under-go a "vapor blasting" technique after striking, resulting in a finish replicating that used on 3 inch bronze mint medals. The machine uses a water vapor and ceramic media mix, It is similiar to sand blasting, but instead of using dry compressed air(propelled at high speed) it uses a compressed wet vapor. The finish is applied to the coin after striking and not to the die. This will provide a consistent coin to coin finish........................................................
If something is done individually to each example, how can it be said to be consistent from one example to another? Wouldn't there be some minor fluctuations?
What does it mean?
"Printed Waiting to Ship, Order Status: Checked into B Vault"
<< <i>
<< <i>this is from the new edition coin world,,,,,The numismatic version will under-go a "vapor blasting" technique after striking, resulting in a finish replicating that used on 3 inch bronze mint medals. The machine uses a water vapor and ceramic media mix, It is similiar to sand blasting, but instead of using dry compressed air(propelled at high speed) it uses a compressed wet vapor. The finish is applied to the coin after striking and not to the die. This will provide a consistent coin to coin finish........................................................
If something is done individually to each example, how can it be said to be consistent from one example to another? Wouldn't there be some minor fluctuations? >>
if they handle them like the medals, there will be major fluctuations.
The medals' finishes seem fairly consitent. (close enough for gov't work)
<< <i>Checked my order this morning and saw this.
What does it mean?
"Printed Waiting to Ship, Order Status: Checked into B Vault" >>
They are messing with head bro... The USS Hockey Puck has not sailed from the Mint yet!
Loves me some shiny!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>What is to prevent a company like Apmex from setting up another corporation as the AP which would "sell" them to Apmex at the mandated spot + prices followed by Apmex selling them at whatever price they want? I could see that happening if the Mint starts cracking down on them. The private sector usually seems to be one step ahead of the air heads in the government. >>
5 years in the market place.
"An applying firm may also be engaged in the retail purchase and sale of silver bullion coins, but it must be able to demonstrate that for a minimum of five continuous years it has maintained a well-established wholesale network of retail coin and precious metal dealers to which it distributes and markets these coins."
Correction, 3 years minimum:
"In lieu of the five-year history requirement, the United States Mint may consider an applying firm’s relative experience/stature in the industry if a firm has a minimum of three years continuous experience in the purchase and sale of silver bullion coins at a wholesale level and/or can also demonstrate it has other commodities trading experience, futures and/or electronic trading activities deemed acceptable by the United States Mint." >>
So why couldn't APMEX sell them to another "FRIENDLY" middleman for $1 over cost and let that "FRIENDLY" middleman [who is not bound by any mint restrictions] do the gouging? >>
Nothing other than their integrity and ethical conduct.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>To make this plot more interesting, the next twist should be people discovering major errors/varieties from these coins
They were non-hubbed dies, right?
<< <i>Checked my order this morning and saw this.
What does it mean?
"Printed Waiting to Ship, Order Status: Checked into B Vault" >>
It must be their default B.S. statement to make you feel at ease that your order is ready, just not shipped yet.
Don't worry, they have not lost it, all the orders are in vault "B"
<< <i>
<< <i>To make this plot more interesting, the next twist should be people discovering major errors/varieties from these coins
They were non-hubbed dies, right? >>
haha, that would be the most interesting one.
<< <i>Yup...the Mint has showed their power by suspending distribution and are now making an impact on the market...
A set just sold on Ebay for $2558 and mentioned the suspension/delay
Yup....everyone can afford a set now
In hindsight the $1395 from APMEX will probably be the cheapest price you will ever see on the open market
edited for spelling >>
What fool! That buyer will be kicking himself in the arse when the lower mintage collectors editions come out at less than half that price.
The name is LEE!
Easy fix for the mint...Release numis in 3 months and release bullion at the same time. If the mint prices the coins at $250 each then that is what the market price will be at that time, matter of fact bullion coins should less since people will pay less for bullion as opposed to numis.
Everyone wins!!!!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>To make this plot more interesting, the next twist should be people discovering major errors/varieties from these coins
They were non-hubbed dies, right? >>
haha, that would be the most interesting one.
individually engraved, not hubbed
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>If the Mint can prove that the AP's violated the agreement..... >>
Hmmmm. In the link Ms provided, I'm not seeing an "Agreement". I'm seeing some instructions on how to apply and how to purchase, but certainly not an agreement.
I also see:
"Due in part to the commodity-like, investment nature of these coins characterized by constantly fluctuating precious metal prices, the United States Mint has determined that the most effective and efficient means for bullion coin distribution is through the use of the well-established silver bullion coin distribution network in the private sector. This network consists of hundreds of coin and precious metals dealers, participating banks, brokerage companies and other financial intermediaries."
To me, this says that the US Mint makes the determination on "how" to sell bullion silver and "who" to sell that bullion to. >>
That may be true.
It is a list of requirements and a description of what the US Mint expects.
In fact it goes on to say that the mint is using this as a means to get a good distribution, AND that this is not for the benefit of the public (the APs).
<< <i>The United States Mint reserves the right to modify the qualifying criteria for APs of silver bullion coins as deemed necessary for the successful continuation of the silver bullion coin program. The criteria for the silver bullion coins are not issued for the benefit of the public and do not create any right of action in any federal court or in any administrative body. >>
Here is the snippet of the law:
"‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—In addition to the authorized dealers
utilized by the Secretary in distributing bullion coins"
I wonder how tightly the Mint hands are tied by that little phrase in the law. Congress seemingly intended these to go through those channels.
However, the mint does say that they use these channels for their benefit and not the public. If only the law had been worded differently. "In addition to the standard sales channels for other mint products,"
So, while I'm in somewhat of agreement with 19Lyds, that these are guidelines, we don't know what kind of contract or agreement they have officially entered into. However, it would seem that any agreement would likely follow these guidelines. >>
This is exactly what I am saying, the US Mint defined "what" the sales method would be since they could not handle the selling of millions of bullion coins "at the time" (1986). Today selling a million pieces is a piece of cake via the Internet and US Mint Web Page in addition to "mail order sales. Mail Order sales was the ONLY way to buy from the US Mint in 1986.
I believe that the US Mint has the capability to change things midstream since the actual Authorized Purchasers Program was NOT dictated by law but "developed" by the US Mint to meet its needs.
As for Congress? The only thing that folks know for certain is that including the 3" pucks in the ATB Law was stupid (unless you're a silver planchet supplier
It's like they don't have a clue.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>To make this plot more interesting, the next twist should be people discovering major errors/varieties from these coins
They were non-hubbed dies, right? >>
haha, that would be the most interesting one.
individually engraved, not hubbed >>
I don't know about the details of the engraving technique. Does this technique is more prone to error?
<< <i>
<< <i>Yup...the Mint has showed their power by suspending distribution and are now making an impact on the market...
A set just sold on Ebay for $2558 and mentioned the suspension/delay
Yup....everyone can afford a set now
In hindsight the $1395 from APMEX will probably be the cheapest price you will ever see on the open market
edited for spelling >>
What fool! That buyer will be kicking himself in the arse when the lower mintage collectors editions come out at less than half that price.
Lets stick with the theme, conspiracy:
The Distributors are bidding up the ebay prices so they can show the Mint their initial price was fair.
Second, the Mint Pucks and the Bullion Pucks are different, so if you want a full set, you need both.
I predict little to no effect of the Mint coins release, on the bullion coin price, because after the initial sale, that only 27,000 households will have, the Mint coins will immediatly sell for much much more on the secondary market.
<< <i>Second, the Mint Pucks and the Bullion Pucks are different, so if you want a full set, you need both. >>
I don't want a full set. Maybe one or two for coasters but thats about it.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>
A set just sold on Ebay for $2558 and mentioned the suspension/delay
>>
Lets stick with the theme, conspiracy:
The Distributors are bidding up the ebay prices so they can show the Mint their initial price was fair.
>>
It makes a lot of sense. For such a tiny market, creating a "market price" can be easily done and the profit will be handsome.
In the 1996-7, when there was a real estate property boom in Hong Kong, I knew some of the real estate agents created false transactions just to boost up the "market price" for a specific location, so the hogs would follow the "market price" and get slaughtered.
<< <i>this is from the new edition coin world,,,,,The numismatic version will under-go a "vapor blasting" technique after striking, resulting in a finish replicating that used on 3 inch bronze mint medals. The machine uses a water vapor and ceramic media mix, It is similiar to sand blasting, but instead of using dry compressed air(propelled at high speed) it uses a compressed wet vapor. The finish is applied to the coin after striking and not to the die. This will provide a consistent coin to coin finish........................................................
Should also assure that there will be no milk spots or other surface defects.
The Mint announced its decision late yesterday afternoon.
Interested buyers in the secondary market were confronted by prices that were at least in some cases 62 percent higher than the projected cost to the Mint’s authorized purchasers of the price of five ounces of silver plus $9.75 per coin. This cost at yesterday’s $30 silver price works out to roughly $160 a coin.
Numismatic News readers sent me e-mail reports of what they were seeing and/or paying.
Readers consider the new bullion coin sellers to be gouging.
The Mint apparently agrees or it would not have taken this unprecedented step in delaying the program because of the complaints.
Where do we go from here?
With a mintage of just 33,000 per design, the so-called bullion coins seem scarce at the moment, with high price quotes reflecting the perception. No one seems to be figuring in the 27,000 numismatic pieces to be sold directly to collectors next year.
The same perception occurred when the First Spouse designs were introduced in 2007 with mintages capped at 40,000. It took until the fourth design for buyers to figure out that such a mintage level is not all that scarce. But such a future change in market perception of America the Beautiful 5-ounce silver coins is purely theoretical now. It might never happen.
The difference is that the Mint sold the First Spouse coins directly to the collector market and not through the Authorized Purchaser network.
For the moment, the Mint is perceived as aiding and abetting secondary market price gouging. It is a position it does not want to be in and we all now wait to see what steps it will take to change this.
link
Sorry
It will be interesting to watch how the values trends as I suspect what will ultimately occur is that both coins will be released in the same relative time frame. Now of course, you have 27K of W coins and 33K w/o the mint mark. And a total of 300K coins for the year.
(3) Distribution.
(A) In general. In addition to the authorized dealers utilized by the Secretary in distributing bullion coins and solely for purposes of distributing bullion coins issued under this subsection, the Director of the National Park Service, or the designee of the Director, may purchase numismatic items issued under this subsection, but only in units of no fewer than 1,000 at a time, and the Director, or the Director's designee, may resell or repackage such numismatic items as the Director determines to be appropriate.
(B) Resale. The Director of the National Park Service, or the designee of the Director, may resell, at cost and without repackaging, numismatic items acquired by the Director or such designee under subparagraph (A) to any party affiliated with any national site honored by a quarter dollar under subsection (t) for repackaging and resale by such party in the same manner and to the same extent as such party would be authorized to engage in such activities under subparagraph (A) if the party were acting as the designee of the Director under such subparagraph.
31 USCS § 5112(u)(3).
<< <i>He has to buy at least 1000 >>
maybe he has rich friends he can sell his whole allotment to?
<< <i>The national Park service is in addition to the authorized dealers, so the dealers can't be excluded. >>
I disagree. The statute says, "in addition to the authorized dealers utilized . . . ." If the Park Service handles all distribution, no authorized dealers will be utilized.
But I guess having that type of corporate business/marketing thinking doesnt exist in a bureaucracy.
<< <i>
<< <i>The national Park service is in addition to the authorized dealers, so the dealers can't be excluded. >>
I disagree. The statute says, "in addition to the authorized dealers utilized . . . ." If the Park Service handles all distribution, no authorized dealers will be utilized. >>
there is the letter of the law and the spirit of the law.
the spirit of the law, to me, says "bullion" and "bullion dealers"