<< <i>sure seems like it would be easy for a distributor to say "here ya go, mr dealer *wink*, here's your 500 sets at only minimum profit from me*wink*" and then the distributor receives a nice check in the mail that has absolutely nothing to do with this transaction... >>
Yes, this is the concern now.
And then there is the fact that they get 3000 sets. Maybe they sell 1500 sets and "stash" 1500 sets. They wait a month and then on thier aftermarket side, after they have been graded, they slip them into the mix and make a huge profit.
A nice refund check. After all, not only did APMEX price gouge, but they wasted my time with this fiasco. They've got to go a long way to build back my trust.
Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
Who knows how all of this will pan out, but, apparently, there's going to be alot of "eyes" watching! If I were an "authorized dealer" I'd play it by the book!
the only way the AP distribution works in this case....
1. Cap the price over spot they can charge (some $ figure or %) 2. Cap the amount of sets to any given household/business (otherwise the APs could just blow out their allotment to their best buddy the 2nd tier dealer)
Interesting that APMEX put in their email the possibility that the Mint might elect not to distribute through the APs. I didn't think the Mint could do that, so why would they put that in the email, unless the Mint told them they were considering that option.
<< <i>the only way the AP distribution works in this case....
1. Cap the price over spot they can charge (some $ figure or %) 2. Cap the amount of sets to any given household/business (otherwise the APs could just blow out their allotment to their best buddy the 2nd tier dealer)
you need BOTH not ONE or the OTHER... >>
Fixed pricing doesn't work in a free market...ever
<< <i>This morning we ordered 50 sets from one of the official distributors we do a lot of business with. They called late this afternoon to say that the Mint would not be delivering the coins. >>
So what does that mean for my $1,419 money order that's out in today's mail? >>
I think that you will likely get the coins as well as some $ back. >>
I sure hope so. I scraped, scrounged and robbed the change at the bottom of my couch to come up with the cash over the weekend so I could mail it off first thing this morning. >>
I think it means you will get no coins and all of your money back, minus what you paid for the money order and I would beotch to get that back, in the end.
why do you think the usm couldnt offer direct to achieve a widespread customer distribution at a fair price? after all, that is their mantra.
they can do anything they want to do to achieve the goal. im sure they reserve the right to change distribution methods issue by issue at any given time.
As far as I know, the law states that they must use the distributors to issue these coins. Probably too late and too much of a hassle to try to change the law at this point. Theoretically possible, but unlikely. I expect a fairly quick decision on this. After all, the mint has a lot of leverage, and it seems like there are only a few proven and fair options to sell coins with this low a mintage and popularity.
Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
<< <i>A nice refund check. After all, not only did APMEX price gouge, but they wasted my time with this fiasco. They've got to go a long way to build back my trust. >>
Yeah, they caused me to read over 700 posts in this thread.
Great BST experiences: abitofthisabitofthat, silvercoinsdude, gerard, coinfame, mikescoins, wondercoin
<< <i> " BINGO! All orders placed through distributors canceled and the strictest possible guidelines ever, imposed by the Mint...along with sales directly through them. That's my call." >>
We got it.....just don't think it will go down that way. You are entitled to your opinion.
My thought (assuming all this is real) is that the Mint will make all the distributors who pre-sold to reprice at a Mint suggested price. The chain of distribution will be intact.
I will add that the dealers will then just jack up the prices to present prices (or even higher) >>
If you're right, I think they will also order all orders canceled and all new orders STRICTLY limited to one per household/phone number/address/ whatever they can come up with to put flippers and dealers, completely out of the loop. >>
APMEX is flipping them to whoever. Monaco is flipping them to whoever.
EVERYONE is a flipper.
It'd be nice if it were 1 per household and limited to people only.
At least then, the max number of sets would be 11 or 12 per household (1 ordered from each wholesaler) >>
The Mint could order cross-referencing of all orders to assure that a one per household limit was observed. >>
customer lists are usually confidential. >>
True but public policy has, on occasion, trumped such confidentiality, especially when a serious breach of contract may have occurred or be alleged.
I think anything and everything is "in play" in terms of how the Mint may decide to handle this. I really don't think any distributor is going to receive coins until/unless a "one set/one household/cost plus 6-8 percent max price is held to be binding on all distributors.
ok -someone please pull the enabling legislation......
and btw - they can hold these up till early next year until a change can be made....the dont have to release this year.....they are doing the same with the numismatic version struck this year but offered next year....
why do you think the usm couldnt offer direct to achieve a widespread customer distribution at a fair price? after all, that is their mantra.
they can do anything they want to do to achieve the goal. im sure they reserve the right to change distribution methods issue by issue at any given time. >>
As PinkFloyd stated, the congressional law requires bullion coins to be distributed through the AP network. So what constitutes a bullion coin. Could the Mint reclassify these as not being bullion coins?
<< <i>if anything.... mint should have dealers refund a % . why make people reorder?? >>
Because it's not fair to those people who had the opportunity to order, but didn't because of the price-gouging. They would be shut-out. The fair thing to do is to hit the giant Reset button. >>
so what about fairness to the people that were willing to pay this and did.... now they have to fight to reorder, get shut out, and end up paying a higher price??? >>
They will pay a lower price BUT likely be restricted, strictly to one set and one set only. >>
Believe me, I was not planning on spending this much on this years set. But, I knew it was going to be limited (100,000 @ first) which I thought would still command a high demand. Since, this was the first year of issue and first of their kind. So either way i was in for 1 set, which is what I ordered. Then seeing 1/3 only being made I decided I would take he risk. I still want my set and I really don't want to reorder it again. With a reorder and a lower price, any dealer now knows there is a demand for these, and they will get their hands on as many as they can even with the 1 set per. As many people will then order to sell to dealer, who will then resell @ same price or even higher then I already paid.
I took the risk as did many others on ordering @ early prices .... why should I lose out cause others didn't order because they want to pay less????? >>
Because in this case, public policy in doing the right thing trumps your ability to put in an order.
America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coins Halted By Michael Zielinski on December 6th, 2010 Categories: America the Beautiful Quarters, Featured Articles, Precious Metals
Bowing to consumer concerns about the excessive premiums being charged for the America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coins, the United States Mint will delay the launch of the program. No orders placed by the primary distributors have been confirmed, while the Mint attempts to determine the appropriate course of action to best serve customers.
The new silver bullion program was expected to launch today. The coins would feature the designs of the America the Beautiful Quarters, stuck in 5 ounces of .999 fine silver. An extremely limited mintage of 33,000 units for each of the five different designs was announced by the Mint on December 1, 2010.
Coins would be sold by the United States Mint to their small group of primary distributors who are responsible for distributing the coins to the broader market. The cost of these coins to the distributors was set at a modest $9.75 premium per coin above the market value of the silver.
In response to the limited number of coins available and the high customer demand, at least one primary distributor began taking orders for the coins at a price of about $130 per coin above the market value of silver. Complete sets of the five designs were priced at $1,395. All 1,000 sets made available at this price sold out in less than 24 hours. Other bullion retailers and secondary market sources quickly began pricing the coins at even higher premiums. This had all taken place prior to the December 6, 2010 launch date for the program.
The United States Mint has just released the following statement about the 2010 America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coins situation:
The United States Mint is aware of reports of concern by many consumers about the high prices and premiums being charged in the market for the newly released America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coins. We are evaluating these reports and collecting information in order to assess the appropriate course of action to make certain that our customers are best served in the distribution of the coins, and to ensure the widest possible availability, accessibility and affordability of these coins.
Earlier today, the US Mint sent the following memo to primary distributors:
The United States Mint issued a press release on December 1, 2010, announcing the December 6, 2010, availability of the 2010 America the Beautiful Ounce Silver Bullion Coins through the established network of Authorized Purchasers who, in turn, would make them available on the secondary market. Due to the limited availability of the 2010 America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coin coins, public anticipation has been extremely strong. Since the press release was issued, the United States Mint has received numerous calls and inquiries from the public regarding premiums being charged for these coins. As a result, we are delaying the launch of this program. No America the Beautiful Ounce Silver Bullion Coins orders will be confirmed today.
<< <i>sure, they had some preorders...people bought them (and quickly), they could've charged more >>
and because they did the USM stopped the whole program....for price gouging???? not because the free market system worked >>
how is it price gouging? a willing market was met between buyer and seller, that's fair market value. I'm not attacking you in anyway, I'm just talking about how price fixing doesn't work. Even though the mint wanted to charge a set price over bullion, it wasn't going to happen due to the scarcity in the product they created. Now that they may change how distributors may have to sell these at a fixed price, you can sure bet there will be a lot of abuse of the system. These will be sold to friends, relatives, colleagues at this price...so they can later be sold at market value. If the mint decides to sell directly, it will be a lot like Ticketmaster for a Rolling Stones concert. With a few people finding ways around the system to buy as many as they can if limited to 1 per household.
Reclassed as a non bullion coin? who knows, anything is possible.
But given the monkey business going on over the last few days, without clear rules, who could trust the distributors?
---->Whole allotments being pre-sold or "held" for sale later ---->Price gouging/huge profits from/to direct purchasers ---->Portions of allotments being held.....who knows for what? But rumors abound for possible TPG grading and further price enrichment?
Enough. The USM did the right thing.
The rules/intent of the program was twisted like a pretzel.
why do you think the usm couldnt offer direct to achieve a widespread customer distribution at a fair price? after all, that is their mantra.
they can do anything they want to do to achieve the goal. im sure they reserve the right to change distribution methods issue by issue at any given time. >>
Absolutely. The Authorized Purchasers themselves were not mandated "by law" but chosen via guidlines set up by the Treasury Department at a time when distribution of millions of coins was a problem (i.e. no internet/no web sites).
The Treasury Secretary can dictate the coins ultimate distribution and be completely within the framework of existing law.
Personally, I think a lottery is in order.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>It ain't over until the fat lady sings. She's not even warmed up yet. Do you think the Mint's wholesalers are going to stand idly by & do nothing? I suspect that their lawyers are in contact with the Mint's lawyers as I type this. Furthermore, the Mint is not going to shoot themselves in the foot by alienating their cash cow network, by giving in to a 100 or so J6P's. Get real boys & girls. The wholesalers will still get their allotment ... The Mint will make some political correct statement to appease those that complaint the loudest. In the end, the status quo will remain. >>
Hear Hear! >>
they can be embargoed from sale and shipping to buyers regardless of when the Mint distributed them.
They will lose customers. They have lost trust. They may lose a contract. And their president, Scott Thomas, made some really poorly thought-out comments. >>
Monaco Coin was selling them @ $1500 before APMEX did their $1395 presale.
of course, APMEX is an AP and Monaco most likey is not.
I wonder what the wholesaler to Monaco was selling to them at? >>
Monaco's original price, allegedly was around $900.
Please.......I'd rather deal with APMEX, than PBGS.....Either declassify these as bullion and sell them via the Mints website or get of the pot & ship them to the dealers. The Mint has no other legal option.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
<< <i>You sure can see who the socialists are and who the free market people are in this thread------------BigE >>
you think i am a socialist....lol
far from it.... but exactly what would you do if you were sitting in the USM management room tonite????
let the $1395 price stand and have everyone from the collecting community call us up and cry foul like they did on Monday morning??? and use the "free market" answer...
if the USM sells direct it is a fixed price structure.. They post it on the website everyday of the year...if bullion is X then the price of our product is Y.... FIXED PRICING based on free market bullion...
One point I haven't read yet is why should all of the distributors be punished because of a few that price gouged? USM selling these direct is a BAD idea. Ship them to your distributors and put a cap on the profit percentage. Simple as that. I don't know why they didn't just do that in the first place when they knew there were only 33,000 sets.
<< <i>One point I haven't read yet is why should all of the distributors be punished because of a few that price gouged? USM selling these direct is a BAD idea. Ship them to your distributors and put a cap on the profit percentage. Simple as that. I don't know why they didn't just do that in the first place when they knew there were only 33,000 sets. >>
the only way the AP distribution works in this case....
1. Cap the price over spot they can charge (some $ figure or %) 2. Cap the amount of sets to any given household/business (otherwise the APs could just blow out their allotment to their best buddy the 2nd tier dealer)
you need BOTH not ONE or the OTHER...
i already posted this...but was then called a socialist...i think...
Apmex is buying these 5 coin sets for $1,200 on their website!! They are making a market for the sets that they sold at $1,395.00.
That being the case, the Mint should sell Apmex and the other distributors their allotment for $1,200 instead of the $783.25 that they would have bought them for.
The difference can be used to reduce the National Debt.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>Apmex is buying these 5 coin sets for $1,200 on their website!! They are making a market for the sets that they sold at $1,395.00.
That being the case, the Mint should sell Apmex and the other distributors their allotment for $1,200 instead of the $783.25 that they would have bought them for.
The difference can be used to reduce the National Debt. >>
I like that idea
Great BST experiences: abitofthisabitofthat, silvercoinsdude, gerard, coinfame, mikescoins, wondercoin
your two rules for distribution by an AP would be required.....BOTH....
or just sell them direct. forget about your fixed price issue, they would sell out in a few hours on the USM site. no problem using that mornings spot price
Today, we received the following notice from the United States Mint…
"The United States Mint issued a press release on December 1, 2010, announcing the December 6, 2010, availability of the 2010 America the Beautiful Ounce Silver Bullion Coins through the established network of Authorized Purchasers who, in turn, would make them available on the secondary market. Due to the limited availability of the 2010 America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coin coins, public anticipation has been extremely strong. Since the press release was issued, the United States Mint has received numerous calls and inquiries from the public regarding premiums being charged for these coins. As a result, we are delaying the launch of this program. No America the Beautiful Ounce Silver Bullion Coins orders will be confirmed today."
You are receiving this notice because you have an existing order with this item in it. We ask the following:
1. Since you have placed an order with APMEX for these coins, we will honor our orders providing the US Mint makes these coins available to us. Should the mint change their method of distribution (Not selling to Authorized Purchasers) and do not provide coins to us, we will have no choice but to cancel the order and provide a full refund.
2. If you would like to cancel your order, you are welcome to reply to this email and let us know.
a. If you have selected to pay by credit card, we will be happy to credit your card back. b. If you have mailed in your check, please let us know and we will return your payment.
3. If you would like to keep your order, there is nothing you have to do. We will let you know when we have more information.
We apologize for this issue and wish there was something more we could do at this point. The US Mint has created a fantastic product. However, because of the complexity of manufacturing the coin and the available time during the 2010 year to produce the coins, the mintage (33,000 each) is more like a numismatic rarity than a bullion coin. We will continue to keep you informed. >>
I just received this e-mail also >>
WAO this is great, all I can say. For all the nay sayers, telling us we where wasting our time calling them today "chew on that release". Now the icing on the cake would be to get rid of all the greedy distributors, glad to see they shot themselves on the foot this time...
I don't know what year the law regarding the use of authorized distributor was put in place. I believe that a wide and fair distribution can be achieve only by selling the 5oz ATB (and all others bullion products) online thru the mint website, this would really be a fair/free market solution and give a wide distribution for all, not just a few elected.
Comments
<< <i>Dont know if they cherrypick, but they wont have as much time now, plus a check back would be good news ---------------------- BigE >>
Cherrypicking should be on the new list of no-no's. And yes, our coins plus a refund check should be in order.
I know of one wholesaler who said his whole allotment was sold when questioned about availability. Rediculous.
In this case you cant trust them.
Sell direct for this special issue. Next year when quantities are 100k, then go back to the network.
<< <i>sure seems like it would be easy for a distributor to say "here ya go, mr dealer *wink*, here's your 500 sets at only minimum profit from me*wink*" and then the distributor receives a nice check in the mail that has absolutely nothing to do with this transaction... >>
Yes, this is the concern now.
And then there is the fact that they get 3000 sets. Maybe they sell 1500 sets and "stash" 1500 sets. They wait a month and then on thier aftermarket side, after they have been graded, they slip them into the mix and make a huge profit.
That's how you solve it.
1. Cap the price over spot they can charge (some $ figure or %)
2. Cap the amount of sets to any given household/business (otherwise the APs could just blow out their allotment to their best buddy the 2nd tier dealer)
you need BOTH not ONE or the OTHER...
<< <i>the only way the AP distribution works in this case....
1. Cap the price over spot they can charge (some $ figure or %)
2. Cap the amount of sets to any given household/business (otherwise the APs could just blow out their allotment to their best buddy the 2nd tier dealer)
you need BOTH not ONE or the OTHER... >>
Fixed pricing doesn't work in a free market...ever
First come first served.
Oneset per buyer.
What's with this special distribution network for mint products, anyway?
Anyone know how you get on the list of 12 distributors?
I speculate you donate $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to some congressman's campaign.
Crazy.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>This morning we ordered 50 sets from one of the official distributors we do a lot of business with. They called late this afternoon to say that the Mint would not be delivering the coins. >>
So what does that mean for my $1,419 money order that's out in today's mail?
I think that you will likely get the coins as well as some $ back. >>
I sure hope so.
I scraped, scrounged and robbed the change at the bottom of my couch to come up with the cash over the weekend
so I could mail it off first thing this morning. >>
I think it means you will get no coins and all of your money back, minus what you paid for the money order and I would beotch to get that back, in the end.
why do you think the usm couldnt offer direct to achieve a widespread customer distribution at a fair price? after all, that is their mantra.
they can do anything they want to do to achieve the goal. im sure they reserve the right to change distribution methods issue by issue at any given time.
<< <i>Fixed pricing doesn't work in a free market...ever >>
.....and $1395 was determined by.....THE FREE MARKET????
<< <i>A nice refund check. After all, not only did APMEX price gouge, but they wasted my time with this fiasco. They've got to go a long way to build back my trust. >>
Yeah, they caused me to read over 700 posts in this thread.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i> " BINGO! All orders placed through distributors canceled and the strictest possible guidelines ever, imposed by the Mint...along with sales directly through them. That's my call." >>
We got it.....just don't think it will go down that way. You are entitled to your opinion.
My thought (assuming all this is real) is that the Mint will make all the distributors who pre-sold to reprice at a Mint suggested price. The chain of distribution will be intact.
I will add that the dealers will then just jack up the prices to present prices (or even higher) >>
If you're right, I think they will also order all orders canceled and all new orders STRICTLY limited to one per household/phone number/address/ whatever they can come up with to put flippers and dealers, completely out of the loop. >>
APMEX is flipping them to whoever.
Monaco is flipping them to whoever.
EVERYONE is a flipper.
It'd be nice if it were 1 per household and limited to people only.
At least then, the max number of sets would be 11 or 12 per household (1 ordered from each wholesaler) >>
The Mint could order cross-referencing of all orders to assure that a one per household limit was observed. >>
customer lists are usually confidential. >>
True but public policy has, on occasion, trumped such confidentiality, especially when a serious breach of contract may have occurred or be alleged.
I think anything and everything is "in play" in terms of how the Mint may decide to handle this. I really don't think any distributor is going to receive coins until/unless a "one set/one household/cost plus 6-8 percent max price is held to be binding on all distributors.
and btw - they can hold these up till early next year until a change can be made....the dont have to release this year.....they are doing the same with the numismatic version struck this year but offered next year....
<< <i>sure, they had some preorders...people bought them (and quickly), they could've charged more >>
and because they did the USM stopped the whole program....for price gouging???? not because the free market system worked
<< <i>Come on PRICE DROP!!! COME ON PRICE DROP!!!
That is ASSUMING they will honor our place in the ordering line
I'll drink to that, but on the other hand, I don't believe in Santa, although it would be a decent X'mas present.
<< <i>Still listed Ebay pre-sales are starting to get pulled by the sellers >>
Awwww...... is there an emoticon here for crocodile tears with violins playing "My Heart Bleeds for You," in the background?
<< <i>Coaster -
why do you think the usm couldnt offer direct to achieve a widespread customer distribution at a fair price? after all, that is their mantra.
they can do anything they want to do to achieve the goal. im sure they reserve the right to change distribution methods issue by issue at any given time. >>
As PinkFloyd stated, the congressional law requires bullion coins to be distributed through the AP network. So what constitutes a bullion coin. Could the Mint reclassify these as not being bullion coins?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>if anything.... mint should have dealers refund a % .
why make people reorder?? >>
Because it's not fair to those people who had the opportunity to order, but didn't because of the price-gouging. They would be shut-out. The fair thing to do is to hit the giant Reset button. >>
so what about fairness to the people that were willing to pay this and did.... now they have to fight to reorder, get shut out, and end up paying a higher price??? >>
They will pay a lower price BUT likely be restricted, strictly to one set and one set only. >>
Believe me, I was not planning on spending this much on this years set. But, I knew it was going to be limited (100,000 @ first) which I thought would still command a high demand. Since, this was the first year of issue and first of their kind. So either way i was in for 1 set, which is what I ordered. Then seeing 1/3 only being made I decided I would take he risk. I still want my set and I really don't want to reorder it again. With a reorder and a lower price, any dealer now knows there is a demand for these, and they will get their hands on as many as they can even with the 1 set per. As many people will then order to sell to dealer, who will then resell @ same price or even higher then I already paid.
I took the risk as did many others on ordering @ early prices .... why should I lose out cause others didn't order because they want to pay less????? >>
Because in this case, public policy in doing the right thing trumps your ability to put in an order.
America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coins Halted
By Michael Zielinski on December 6th, 2010
Categories: America the Beautiful Quarters, Featured Articles, Precious Metals
Bowing to consumer concerns about the excessive premiums being charged for the America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coins, the United States Mint will delay the launch of the program. No orders placed by the primary distributors have been confirmed, while the Mint attempts to determine the appropriate course of action to best serve customers.
The new silver bullion program was expected to launch today. The coins would feature the designs of the America the Beautiful Quarters, stuck in 5 ounces of .999 fine silver. An extremely limited mintage of 33,000 units for each of the five different designs was announced by the Mint on December 1, 2010.
Coins would be sold by the United States Mint to their small group of primary distributors who are responsible for distributing the coins to the broader market. The cost of these coins to the distributors was set at a modest $9.75 premium per coin above the market value of the silver.
In response to the limited number of coins available and the high customer demand, at least one primary distributor began taking orders for the coins at a price of about $130 per coin above the market value of silver. Complete sets of the five designs were priced at $1,395. All 1,000 sets made available at this price sold out in less than 24 hours. Other bullion retailers and secondary market sources quickly began pricing the coins at even higher premiums. This had all taken place prior to the December 6, 2010 launch date for the program.
The United States Mint has just released the following statement about the 2010 America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coins situation:
The United States Mint is aware of reports of concern by many consumers about the high prices and premiums being charged in the market for the newly released America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coins. We are evaluating these reports and collecting information in order to assess the appropriate course of action to make certain that our customers are best served in the distribution of the coins, and to ensure the widest possible availability, accessibility and affordability of these coins.
Earlier today, the US Mint sent the following memo to primary distributors:
The United States Mint issued a press release on December 1, 2010, announcing the December 6, 2010, availability of the 2010 America the Beautiful Ounce Silver Bullion Coins through the established network of Authorized Purchasers who, in turn, would make them available on the secondary market. Due to the limited availability of the 2010 America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coin coins, public anticipation has been extremely strong. Since the press release was issued, the United States Mint has received numerous calls and inquiries from the public regarding premiums being charged for these coins. As a result, we are delaying the launch of this program. No America the Beautiful Ounce Silver Bullion Coins orders will be confirmed today.
<< <i>
<< <i>sure, they had some preorders...people bought them (and quickly), they could've charged more >>
and because they did the USM stopped the whole program....for price gouging???? not because the free market system worked >>
how is it price gouging? a willing market was met between buyer and seller, that's fair market value. I'm not attacking you in anyway, I'm just talking about how price fixing doesn't work. Even though the mint wanted to charge a set price over bullion, it wasn't going to happen due to the scarcity in the product they created. Now that they may change how distributors may have to sell these at a fixed price, you can sure bet there will be a lot of abuse of the system. These will be sold to friends, relatives, colleagues at this price...so they can later be sold at market value. If the mint decides to sell directly, it will be a lot like Ticketmaster for a Rolling Stones concert. With a few people finding ways around the system to buy as many as they can if limited to 1 per household.
Reclassed as a non bullion coin? who knows, anything is possible.
But given the monkey business going on over the last few days, without clear rules, who could trust the distributors?
---->Whole allotments being pre-sold or "held" for sale later
---->Price gouging/huge profits from/to direct purchasers
---->Portions of allotments being held.....who knows for what? But rumors abound for possible TPG grading and further price enrichment?
Enough. The USM did the right thing.
The rules/intent of the program was twisted like a pretzel.
Now just sell direct.
<< <i>Coaster -
why do you think the usm couldnt offer direct to achieve a widespread customer distribution at a fair price? after all, that is their mantra.
they can do anything they want to do to achieve the goal. im sure they reserve the right to change distribution methods issue by issue at any given time. >>
Absolutely.
The Authorized Purchasers themselves were not mandated "by law" but chosen via guidlines set up by the Treasury Department at a time when distribution of millions of coins was a problem (i.e. no internet/no web sites).
The Treasury Secretary can dictate the coins ultimate distribution and be completely within the framework of existing law.
Personally, I think a lottery is in order.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>It ain't over until the fat lady sings. She's not even warmed up yet. Do you think the Mint's wholesalers are going to stand idly by & do nothing? I suspect that their lawyers are in contact with the Mint's lawyers as I type this. Furthermore, the Mint is not going to shoot themselves in the foot by alienating their cash cow network, by giving in to a 100 or so J6P's. Get real boys & girls. The wholesalers will still get their allotment ... The Mint will make some political correct statement to appease those that complaint the loudest. In the end, the status quo will remain. >>
Hear Hear! >>
they can be embargoed from sale and shipping to buyers regardless of when the Mint distributed them.
<< <i>
<< <i>Bottom line: APMEX blew it.
They will lose customers. They have lost trust. They may lose a contract. And their president, Scott Thomas, made some really poorly thought-out comments. >>
Monaco Coin was selling them @ $1500 before APMEX did their $1395 presale.
of course, APMEX is an AP and Monaco most likey is not.
I wonder what the wholesaler to Monaco was selling to them at? >>
Monaco's original price, allegedly was around $900.
<< <i> With a few people finding ways around the system to buy as many as they can if limited to 1 per household. >>
lol...too funny that has been an ongoing event at the USM order desk for years....and it is not a few...it is QUITE a few...
so no system is fair i guess....but for this issue it will be a fixed price/limit per household...if the USM sells them direct, or via the APs
can't see anyway around it now..
<< <i>Now just sell direct. >>
Please.......I'd rather deal with APMEX, than PBGS.....Either declassify these as bullion and sell them via the Mints website or get of the pot & ship them to the dealers. The Mint has no other legal option.
Of course shipping will cost you $800.00.
They have lots of options.
But one will not be shipping them for distribution as the AP see's fit. That's over.
and then turn around and screw the masses, not abiding by the agreement that gave them preferential treatment.
If these guys were secondary market dealers and wanted to charge $10k per set, more power to them.
But not the AP's.
<< <i>There is nothing "free market" about a private party where only 11 can buy at reasonable prices, tied to the bullion price,
and then turn around and screw the masses, not abiding by the agreement that gave them preferential treatment.
If these guys were secondary market dealers and wanted to charge $10k per set, more power to them.
But not the AP's. >>
Agree! There was nothing free market about this from the git go!
The name is LEE!
Send them out, if I get a hundred or two refunded, even better, but don't care. Give me my coins.
<< <i>You sure can see who the socialists are and who the free market people are in this thread------------BigE >>
you think i am a socialist....lol
far from it.... but exactly what would you do if you were sitting in the USM management room tonite????
let the $1395 price stand and have everyone from the collecting community call us up and cry foul like they did on Monday morning??? and use the "free market" answer...
if the USM sells direct it is a fixed price structure.. They post it on the website everyday of the year...if bullion is X then the price of our product is Y.... FIXED PRICING based on free market bullion...
<< <i>One point I haven't read yet is why should all of the distributors be punished because of a few that price gouged? USM selling these direct is a BAD idea. Ship them to your distributors and put a cap on the profit percentage. Simple as that. I don't know why they didn't just do that in the first place when they knew there were only 33,000 sets. >>
the only way the AP distribution works in this case....
1. Cap the price over spot they can charge (some $ figure or %)
2. Cap the amount of sets to any given household/business (otherwise the APs could just blow out their allotment to their best buddy the 2nd tier dealer)
you need BOTH not ONE or the OTHER...
i already posted this...but was then called a socialist...i think...
That being the case, the Mint should sell Apmex and the other distributors their allotment for $1,200 instead of the $783.25 that they would have bought them for.
The difference can be used to reduce the National Debt.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Apmex is buying these 5 coin sets for $1,200 on their website!! They are making a market for the sets that they sold at $1,395.00.
That being the case, the Mint should sell Apmex and the other distributors their allotment for $1,200 instead of the $783.25 that they would have bought them for.
The difference can be used to reduce the National Debt. >>
I like that idea
your two rules for distribution by an AP would be required.....BOTH....
or just sell them direct. forget about your fixed price issue, they would sell out in a few hours on the USM site. no problem using that mornings spot price
WHY? so it can be run up again with other welfare programs?
no thanks.
just stop spending. it's simple.
<< <i>
<< <i>from APMEX....
Today, we received the following notice from the United States Mint…
"The United States Mint issued a press release on December 1, 2010, announcing the December 6, 2010, availability of the 2010 America the Beautiful Ounce Silver Bullion Coins through the established network of Authorized Purchasers who, in turn, would make them available on the secondary market. Due to the limited availability of the 2010 America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coin coins, public anticipation has been extremely strong. Since the press release was issued, the United States Mint has received numerous calls and inquiries from the public regarding premiums being charged for these coins. As a result, we are delaying the launch of this program. No America the Beautiful Ounce Silver Bullion Coins orders will be confirmed today."
You are receiving this notice because you have an existing order with this item in it. We ask the following:
1. Since you have placed an order with APMEX for these coins, we will honor our orders providing the US Mint makes these coins available to us. Should the mint change their method of distribution (Not selling to Authorized Purchasers) and do not provide coins to us, we will have no choice but to cancel the order and provide a full refund.
2. If you would like to cancel your order, you are welcome to reply to this email and let us know.
a. If you have selected to pay by credit card, we will be happy to credit your card back.
b. If you have mailed in your check, please let us know and we will return your payment.
3. If you would like to keep your order, there is nothing you have to do. We will let you know when we have more information.
We apologize for this issue and wish there was something more we could do at this point. The US Mint has created a fantastic product. However, because of the complexity of manufacturing the coin and the available time during the 2010 year to produce the coins, the mintage (33,000 each) is more like a numismatic rarity than a bullion coin. We will continue to keep you informed. >>
I just received this e-mail also >>
WAO this is great, all I can say. For all the nay sayers, telling us we where wasting our time calling them today "chew on that release". Now the icing on the cake would be to get rid of all the greedy distributors, glad to see they shot themselves on the foot this time...