<< <i>You sure can see who the socialists are and who the free market people are in this thread------------BigE >>
you think i am a socialist....lol
far from it.... but exactly what would you do if you were sitting in the USM management room tonite????
let the $1395 price stand and have everyone from the collecting community call us up and cry foul like they did on Monday morning??? and use the "free market" answer...
if the USM sells direct it is a fixed price structure.. They post it on the website everyday of the year...if bullion is X then the price of our product is Y.... FIXED PRICING based on free market bullion... >>
lol, 7 0v 8, just overall, not you.
by reducing the introductory price, you are not going to change the end price. The only way to affect the outcome is to change the mintage or melt the coins. The market is what prices them, selling them for 20.00 over spot initially will have absolutely no effect.
Today, we received the following notice from the United States Mint…
"The United States Mint issued a press release on December 1, 2010, announcing the December 6, 2010, availability of the 2010 America the Beautiful Ounce Silver Bullion Coins through the established network of Authorized Purchasers who, in turn, would make them available on the secondary market. Due to the limited availability of the 2010 America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coin coins, public anticipation has been extremely strong. Since the press release was issued, the United States Mint has received numerous calls and inquiries from the public regarding premiums being charged for these coins. As a result, we are delaying the launch of this program. No America the Beautiful Ounce Silver Bullion Coins orders will be confirmed today."
You are receiving this notice because you have an existing order with this item in it. We ask the following:
1. Since you have placed an order with APMEX for these coins, we will honor our orders providing the US Mint makes these coins available to us. Should the mint change their method of distribution (Not selling to Authorized Purchasers) and do not provide coins to us, we will have no choice but to cancel the order and provide a full refund.
2. If you would like to cancel your order, you are welcome to reply to this email and let us know.
a. If you have selected to pay by credit card, we will be happy to credit your card back. b. If you have mailed in your check, please let us know and we will return your payment.
3. If you would like to keep your order, there is nothing you have to do. We will let you know when we have more information.
We apologize for this issue and wish there was something more we could do at this point. The US Mint has created a fantastic product. However, because of the complexity of manufacturing the coin and the available time during the 2010 year to produce the coins, the mintage (33,000 each) is more like a numismatic rarity than a bullion coin. We will continue to keep you informed. >>
I just received this e-mail also >>
WAO this is great, all I can say. For all the nay sayers, telling us we where wasting our time calling them today "chew on that release". Now the icing on the cake would be to get rid of all the greedy distributors, glad to see they shot themselves on the foot this time... >>
Wonderful. Now I guess I may not receive my order. Fantastic. Tyranny of the whiny.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>They would have to get a legislative fix to bypass the Auth. Dist. The lame duck is short and jam packed.
I think that they will sell via the Auth. Dist. but will tell them to limit the spread to something reasonable or loose A.D. status.
I think that all of those with confirmed orders from APMEX will get them along with some $ back.
I wonder how all of the $1700+ pre-sale buyers on Ebay will be feeling if the sets are actually sold for about $1K as they should be.
So much fun to watch.... >>
No matter how the cut it there will be some injustice for someone. What if the primaries have to refund to secondarys who have not requirement to pass it along? I think some primaries are gonna cry foul. I mean they are the guys forking out the big bucks and to see the small fry taking most of the profit will not set well.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>There is nothing "free market" about a private party where only 11 can buy at reasonable prices, tied to the bullion price,
and then turn around and screw the masses, not abiding by the agreement that gave them preferential treatment.
If these guys were secondary market dealers and wanted to charge $10k per set, more power to them.
But not the AP's. >>
Agree! There was nothing free market about this from the git go! >>
I think in theory, the distributors should be acting like "arms" of the mint. They are supposed to sell the coins at spot plus a premium to cover and make a small profit (or they wouldn't do it). The real "market" aspect of bullion coins should come about after the coins are released into the public (or secondary dealers). Obviously, some of the distributors got greedy and saw an opportunity to take advantage and test the system.
APMEX tried to be a distributor AND secondary dealer in the same sale. Greedy.
This has restored some of my faith in the USM at least.
Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
<< <i>ok -someone please pull the enabling legislation......
and btw - they can hold these up till early next year until a change can be made....the dont have to release this year.....they are doing the same with the numismatic version struck this year but offered next year.... >>
the law covers the bullion.
the bullion must be sold in the year the quarters were issued.
<< <i>One point I haven't read yet is why should all of the distributors be punished because of a few that price gouged? USM selling these direct is a BAD idea. Ship them to your distributors and put a cap on the profit percentage. Simple as that. I don't know why they didn't just do that in the first place when they knew there were only 33,000 sets. >>
Because the Mint has pricing influence over the APs (first-tier distributors) only. And since only one AP sells directly to the public (APMEX), they have pricing influence over only their allocation of 3000 sets. The other 30,000 sets will be sold by second-tier distributors who can price-gouge all they want. So this would not solve the Mint's desire to make these affordable to the public.
I think the first line distributors should not be allowed to market the mint products directly to the public...they are distributors...they should distribute to the sellers. By doing both, they have too much flexibility. Its like if nintendo and Sony decided to market direct to the public..Lots of the game stores would be going out of business.
The people who should really have been up in arms about this is the dealers who were having to buy at 1500 from the distributors who "sold all we had".
Great BST experiences: abitofthisabitofthat, silvercoinsdude, gerard, coinfame, mikescoins, wondercoin
Please.......I'd rather deal with APMEX, than PBGS.....Either declassify these as bullion and sell them via the Mints website or get of the pot & ship them to the dealers. The Mint has no other legal option. >>
I would think a court would rule in the AP's favor if coins minted to be sold as bullion were re-classified and sold through another channel.
Wonderful. Now I guess I may not receive my order. Fantastic. Tyranny of the whiny. >>
Lol, I guess not everyone wins, but I know that the greedy sob's at APMEX are definitely loosing, and for that as Tosh would say to the USMINT I thank you You should still receive you order, you might end up thanking us as you will have to pay less for it. My hat off to the powers that be for doing the right thing. By the way I was not really planning on buying any of these coins, but got involved because of the price gouging. Now I Will certainly buy some when they are released. My stomach turned when i read the rumor that one of the distributors was going to keep all the coins for his personal collection, are you kidding me?
To achieve free-market pricing, how about a multiple-lot auction?
Bidders could enter bids on as many of each type as they like. The 33,000 highest bids for each type would win the coins at their bid price.
As a consolation prize, losing bidders could purchase 0.18 ounce silver proof versions directly from the Mint at $32.95 for a nice, plastic-encased set of all 5 designs.
After all this insanity anyone that thinks this is going to be just another bullion coin is crazy. I don't know but I've heard how all these companies hold back the best coins for slabbing. If the mint wants to be fair make the distributors sell at a reasonable price. Period, if that means giving back some of the charged cost, so be it. Then put strict limits on the rest for sale per household, or address, or business, or whatever and make the distributors offer up the same number they've already sold at a reasonable cost so those that didn't buy at the high price still have a chance. This coin is supposed to be for the general public not just big distributors or bulk dealers. The original buyers would be happy, those that passed on the ridiculous price still have a shot, and the unbridled greed would be reined in a bit and they'd still make a very hefty profit just for doing their job.
For once I applaud the mint, Congress created this problem, and in hindsight we can all say the mint should have foreseen this mess but face it. They just ran out of time. Congress once again threw out a mandate that wasn't thought out at all, and the mint, just like the rest of us have to pay the price. I just hope they can find a solution fair to those that actually want the coins and wanted them from the beginning. I have no sympathy for those driven purely by greed. I applaud those that did more than whine and actually got someones ear.
Wonderful. Now I guess I may not receive my order. Fantastic. Tyranny of the whiny. >>
Lol, I guess not everyone wins, but I know that the greedy sob's at APMEX are definitely loosing, and for that as Tosh would say to the USMINT I thank you You should still receive you order, you might end up thanking us as you will have to pay less for it. My hat off to the powers that be for doing the right thing. By the way I was not really planning on buying any of these coins, but got involved because of the price gouging. Now I Will certainly buy some when they are released. >>
I did not order mine from Apmess but got it at a reasonable price from elsewhere. I just think knowing the Mint they will halt orders to everyone and change the rules to please the rowdy masses with clubs and pitchforks and then I will miss out or have to pay more on whatever alternative method they choose. Par for the course. Maybe you will be buying the one I loose.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>ok -someone please pull the enabling legislation......
and btw - they can hold these up till early next year until a change can be made....the dont have to release this year.....they are doing the same with the numismatic version struck this year but offered next year.... >>
the law covers the bullion.
the bullion must be sold in the year the quarters were issued.
the law says nothing about numismatic products. >>
Well, they can:
A. try to get the law changed; B. sell them via their website before the end of the year with delivery guaranteed by March 31, 2011 to give them time to repackage them in individual holders (do you want one sent loose in a padded mailer?), or C. announce that they have been reclassified as numismatic (due to the high prices they were selling at?) and sell them after the first of the year. TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
A. try to get the law changed; B. sell them via their website before the end of the year with delivery guaranteed by March 31, 2011 to give them time to repackage them in individual holders (do you want one sent loose in a padded mailer?), or C. announce that they have been reclassified as numismatic (due to the high prices they were selling at?) and sell them after the first of the year. TD >>
I will laugh so hard if they do B. or C. and charge $1500 per set and hear the formerly outraged say how good it is because now you get a box.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
by reducing the introductory price, you are not going to change the end price. The only way to affect the outcome is to change the mintage or melt the coins. The market is what prices them, selling them for 20.00 over spot initially will have absolutely no effect.
The problem is that the end price is now artificially high no matter what you do. It's been hyped now. There's really no way to know what the market price would have been without the hype. When the mintage went from 100,000 to 33,000 it was bound to become a hot issue. That's not the problem. The law specifies that the coins be distributed at a premium structure comparable to other bullion products. The problem has been the way that the distributors violated their agreements and the authorizing legislation from the get-go, using the lower mintage numbers as a "perfect storm" reason in order to gouge the crap out of the public.
The price was immediately $500 more than it should have been, regardless of the market action that ensued after that. There is a big difference between a distributor who unethically and illegally exploits his deal with the Mint vs. the guy who buys at a high price and jacks his selling price up to "what the market will bear". A big difference.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
How fast can they order 165,000 single coin capsules? (I would assume that most of the 135,000 P-mint numismatic coins have already been encapsulated).
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
"We guarantee you a coin if and when the mint ever ships these coasters!!!! Shipment will be within 8 months and substitutions for any other US Mint silver coin in genuine condition may take place without prior notice.
2010 America the Beautiful 5 coin, 5 ounce Silver set
Pricing based on normal coin dealer markup as managed by the US Mint
Note: Your coin may be bent by light handling or if the ambient temperature rises above 89 degrees during shipment.
~~ Just Released by the Mint (MAYBE) ~~
Mintage of each coin is aprx. 33,000, Shipment of each coin....Who Knows????"
I really like this seller! And I especially like this sentance "Pricing based on normal coin dealer markup as managed by the US Mint"
<< <i>How fast can they order 165,000 single coin capsules? (I would assume that most of the 135,000 P-mint numismatic coins have already been encapsulated). >>
Who says they have to be encapsulated?
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>Wonderful. Now I guess I may not receive my order. Fantastic. Tyranny of the whiny. >>
Not everybody has a "90% 0ver Spot" bank wad to throw in the toilet.
Tell ya what, If the mint sells these online at $1,000 per set, don't bother ordering. I'll order them for ya and then resell them to you for say $1,700.
Your worries would be over! I'll guarantee you to get at least one set at that price or refund the entire amount to you! How's that?
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
How about we just put the entire mintage aboard a ship named the "S.S. Central America" and send it towards Panama.......
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
"We guarantee you a coin if and when the mint ever ships these coasters!!!! Shipment will be within 8 months and substitutions for any other US Mint silver coin in genuine condition may take place without prior notice.
2010 America the Beautiful 5 coin, 5 ounce Silver set
Pricing based on normal coin dealer markup as managed by the US Mint
Note: Your coin may be bent by light handling or if the ambient temperature rises above 89 degrees during shipment.
~~ Just Released by the Mint (MAYBE) ~~
Mintage of each coin is aprx. 33,000, Shipment of each coin....Who Knows????"
I really like this seller! And I especially like this sentance "Pricing based on normal coin dealer markup as managed by the US Mint" >>
Hey....but you get 200 in ebay bucks!
Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
One problem now that has been pointed out, this publicity has made the issue even more in demand and so prices will go higher no matter what the mint does. Those that didn't order will be watching the clock for when they can order. Those that already ordered will try to order more.
i think any limitation on orders per household could also drive prices higher because the price has to go high enough to get people to sell the only coins they have assuming everyone is honest. This move by the mint may actually backfire is what I am saying, and make these even hotter than they are.
BTW I doubt there is any chance of a change in legislation before the end of this year, and the mint will go back to the dealers next year with the bullion coins anyways. They are probably drafting the rules for the dealers to sell these right now is my guess, anyway should be interesting to see what happens. I have an order in already as backup.
Is the Treasury Department still a part of the Executive Branch? Perhaps a Presidential Order changing the distribution is feasible.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
it would take a small miracle to change the law and have the mint sell these direct.
the law is clear.
authorized purchasers network is to be used, and bullion coins ar to be made, and which they must be sold in the year the quarters were issued
hopes of bypassing the APs must rely upon a change in the law reclassification would certainly draw very winnable lawsuits, and would have the mint NOT producing bullion, which is against the law.
<< <i>it would take a small miracle to change the law and have the mint sell these direct.
the law is clear.
authorized purchasers network is to be used, and bullion coins ar to be made, and which they must be sold in the year the quarters were issued
hopes of bypassing the APs must rely upon a change in the law reclassification would certainly draw very winnable lawsuits, and would have the mint NOT producing bullion, which is against the law. >>
OK, sell every official distributor one box each at bullion prices.
Then sell the rest direct.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
The approved firms will also be required to agree that: - Disputes concerning the purchase of coins under the agreement will be resolved by the United States District Court, District of Columbia, according to federal law, and that the jurisdiction and venue of that court is agreed to by the AP. - Failure to adhere to the terms and conditions of the agreement may result in immediate unilateral termination of the firm as an AP of silver bullion coins. In addition, the United States Mint reserves the right to discontinue selling silver bullion coins to an AP if, in the judgment of the United States Mint, the best interests of the U. S. government and the silver bullion coin program so indicate.
<< <i>Wonderful. Now I guess I may not receive my order. Fantastic. Tyranny of the whiny. >>
Not everybody has a "90% 0ver Spot" bank wad to throw in the toilet.
Tell ya what, If the mint sells these online at $1,000 per set, don't bother ordering. I'll order them for ya and then resell them to you for say $1,700.
Your worries would be over! I'll guarantee you to get at least one set at that price or refund the entire amount to you! How's that? >>
I highly doubt the Mint will sell them for that price but I did have one at that price. Who knows now. Now I may have to buy from a flipper. Not really. I will just pass.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
If the Mint can prove that the AP's violated the agreement.....
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>You sure can see who the socialists are and who the free market people are in this thread------------BigE >>
you think i am a socialist....lol
far from it.... but exactly what would you do if you were sitting in the USM management room tonite????
let the $1395 price stand and have everyone from the collecting community call us up and cry foul like they did on Monday morning??? and use the "free market" answer...
if the USM sells direct it is a fixed price structure.. They post it on the website everyday of the year...if bullion is X then the price of our product is Y.... FIXED PRICING based on free market bullion... >>
lol, 7 0v 8, just overall, not you.
by reducing the introductory price, you are not going to change the end price. The only way to affect the outcome is to change the mintage or melt the coins. The market is what prices them, selling them for 20.00 over spot initially will have absolutely no effect.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>from APMEX....
Today, we received the following notice from the United States Mint…
"The United States Mint issued a press release on December 1, 2010, announcing the December 6, 2010, availability of the 2010 America the Beautiful Ounce Silver Bullion Coins through the established network of Authorized Purchasers who, in turn, would make them available on the secondary market. Due to the limited availability of the 2010 America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coin coins, public anticipation has been extremely strong. Since the press release was issued, the United States Mint has received numerous calls and inquiries from the public regarding premiums being charged for these coins. As a result, we are delaying the launch of this program. No America the Beautiful Ounce Silver Bullion Coins orders will be confirmed today."
You are receiving this notice because you have an existing order with this item in it. We ask the following:
1. Since you have placed an order with APMEX for these coins, we will honor our orders providing the US Mint makes these coins available to us. Should the mint change their method of distribution (Not selling to Authorized Purchasers) and do not provide coins to us, we will have no choice but to cancel the order and provide a full refund.
2. If you would like to cancel your order, you are welcome to reply to this email and let us know.
a. If you have selected to pay by credit card, we will be happy to credit your card back.
b. If you have mailed in your check, please let us know and we will return your payment.
3. If you would like to keep your order, there is nothing you have to do. We will let you know when we have more information.
We apologize for this issue and wish there was something more we could do at this point. The US Mint has created a fantastic product. However, because of the complexity of manufacturing the coin and the available time during the 2010 year to produce the coins, the mintage (33,000 each) is more like a numismatic rarity than a bullion coin. We will continue to keep you informed. >>
I just received this e-mail also >>
WAO this is great, all I can say. For all the nay sayers, telling us we where wasting our time calling them today "chew on that release". Now the icing on the cake would be to get rid of all the greedy distributors, glad to see they shot themselves on the foot this time... >>
Wonderful. Now I guess I may not receive my order. Fantastic. Tyranny of the whiny.
I think that they will sell via the Auth. Dist. but will tell them to limit the spread to something reasonable or loose A.D. status.
I think that all of those with confirmed orders from APMEX will get them along with some $ back.
I wonder how all of the $1700+ pre-sale buyers on Ebay will be feeling if the sets are actually sold for about $1K as they should be.
So much fun to watch....
WHY? so it can be run up again with other welfare programs?
no thanks.
just stop spending. it's simple.
I didn't say "spend it". I said "reduce the national debt" which is the same thing as NOT spending it.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>They would have to get a legislative fix to bypass the Auth. Dist. The lame duck is short and jam packed.
I think that they will sell via the Auth. Dist. but will tell them to limit the spread to something reasonable or loose A.D. status.
I think that all of those with confirmed orders from APMEX will get them along with some $ back.
I wonder how all of the $1700+ pre-sale buyers on Ebay will be feeling if the sets are actually sold for about $1K as they should be.
So much fun to watch.... >>
No matter how the cut it there will be some injustice for someone. What if the primaries have to refund to secondarys who have not requirement to pass it along? I think some primaries are gonna cry foul. I mean they are the guys forking out the big bucks and to see the small fry taking most of the profit will not set well.
Can't wait to see how this plays out.
Somebody needs to write a book about the U.S. Mint in the 21st Century!
<< <i>
<< <i>There is nothing "free market" about a private party where only 11 can buy at reasonable prices, tied to the bullion price,
and then turn around and screw the masses, not abiding by the agreement that gave them preferential treatment.
If these guys were secondary market dealers and wanted to charge $10k per set, more power to them.
But not the AP's. >>
Agree! There was nothing free market about this from the git go! >>
I think in theory, the distributors should be acting like "arms" of the mint. They are supposed to sell the coins at spot plus a premium to cover and make a small profit (or they wouldn't do it). The real "market" aspect of bullion coins should come about after the coins are released into the public (or secondary dealers). Obviously, some of the distributors got greedy and saw an opportunity to take advantage and test the system.
APMEX tried to be a distributor AND secondary dealer in the same sale. Greedy.
This has restored some of my faith in the USM at least.
<< <i>ok -someone please pull the enabling legislation......
and btw - they can hold these up till early next year until a change can be made....the dont have to release this year.....they are doing the same with the numismatic version struck this year but offered next year.... >>
the law covers the bullion.
the bullion must be sold in the year the quarters were issued.
the law says nothing about numismatic products.
Wondercoin
they made their bed,
Big E - a wide distribution of ALL available coins will be a much fairer outcome------
as for prices, sure they will be as high or higher from the secondary market - but that's how it works for ALL, not just for the chosen FEW.
<< <i>You sure can see who the socialists are and who the free market people are in this thread------------BigE >>
You're to kind with that analogy... I would have added bhl...
<< <i>One point I haven't read yet is why should all of the distributors be punished because of a few that price gouged? USM selling these direct is a BAD idea. Ship them to your distributors and put a cap on the profit percentage. Simple as that. I don't know why they didn't just do that in the first place when they knew there were only 33,000 sets. >>
Because the Mint has pricing influence over the APs (first-tier distributors) only. And since only one AP sells directly to the public (APMEX), they have pricing influence over only their allocation of 3000 sets. The other 30,000 sets will be sold by second-tier distributors who can price-gouge all they want. So this would not solve the Mint's desire to make these affordable to the public.
By doing both, they have too much flexibility. Its like if nintendo and Sony decided to market direct to the public..Lots of the game stores would be going out of business.
The people who should really have been up in arms about this is the dealers who were having to buy at 1500 from the distributors who "sold all we had".
<< <i>
<< <i>Now just sell direct. >>
Please.......I'd rather deal with APMEX, than PBGS.....Either declassify these as bullion and sell them via the Mints website or get of the pot & ship them to the dealers. The Mint has no other legal option. >>
I would think a court would rule in the AP's favor if coins minted to be sold as bullion were re-classified and sold through another channel.
<< <i>
Wonderful. Now I guess I may not receive my order. Fantastic. Tyranny of the whiny. >>
Lol, I guess not everyone wins, but I know that the greedy sob's at APMEX are definitely loosing, and for that as Tosh would say to the USMINT I thank you
not hard to reclassify these as well as numismatic.
offer them 1 set per HH, pre-order (subscribe), so no problems accessing USM servers the day of release.
Bidders could enter bids on as many of each type as they like. The 33,000 highest bids for each type would win the coins at their bid price.
As a consolation prize, losing bidders could purchase 0.18 ounce silver proof versions directly from the Mint at $32.95 for a nice, plastic-encased set of all 5 designs.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>
<< <i>Apmex is buying these 5 coin sets for $1,200 on their website!! They are making a market for the sets that they sold at $1,395.00.
Looks like APMEX pulled the $1200 buy price off their site.
For once I applaud the mint, Congress created this problem, and in hindsight we can all say the mint should have foreseen this mess but face it. They just ran out of time. Congress once again threw out a mandate that wasn't thought out at all, and the mint, just like the rest of us have to pay the price. I just hope they can find a solution fair to those that actually want the coins and wanted them from the beginning. I have no sympathy for those driven purely by greed. I applaud those that did more than whine and actually got someones ear.
<< <i>
<< <i>
Wonderful. Now I guess I may not receive my order. Fantastic. Tyranny of the whiny. >>
Lol, I guess not everyone wins, but I know that the greedy sob's at APMEX are definitely loosing, and for that as Tosh would say to the USMINT I thank you
I did not order mine from Apmess but got it at a reasonable price from elsewhere. I just think knowing the Mint they will halt orders to everyone and change the rules to please the rowdy masses with clubs and pitchforks and then I will miss out or have to pay more on whatever alternative method they choose. Par for the course. Maybe you will be buying the one I loose.
I wouldnt say for sure that will be the outcome.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Apmex is buying these 5 coin sets for $1,200 on their website!! They are making a market for the sets that they sold at $1,395.00.
Looks like APMEX pulled the $1200 buy price off their site. >>
NOT COMPLETELY REMOVED! They still got the "buy" price on their 'Description' page.
At the very minimum
Whatever distribution method is ultimately used in this case (direct or AP) there will most likely be very different rules
Maybe HH limitations (so those who orrdered multiple sets, you may be out)
But definitely lower, more reasonable prices.
All should be happy, why any current customer would be annoyed is beyond me........
<< <i>Half
I wouldnt say for sure that will be the outcome. >>
Maybe the Mint will simply raise the price to the primaries to reduce the fluff. Won't help the downstream though just make the Mint richer.
<< <i>
<< <i>ok -someone please pull the enabling legislation......
and btw - they can hold these up till early next year until a change can be made....the dont have to release this year.....they are doing the same with the numismatic version struck this year but offered next year.... >>
the law covers the bullion.
the bullion must be sold in the year the quarters were issued.
the law says nothing about numismatic products. >>
Well, they can:
A. try to get the law changed;
B. sell them via their website before the end of the year with delivery guaranteed by March 31, 2011 to give them time to repackage them in individual holders (do you want one sent loose in a padded mailer?), or
C. announce that they have been reclassified as numismatic (due to the high prices they were selling at?) and sell them after the first of the year.
TD
<< <i>Finally, an issue that has the esteemed "Gyromac" posting 5 or 10 times in a single day ... note his sub-100 posts in 4 years!!
Wondercoin >>
its snowing here today....i am bored....lol
A. try to get the law changed;
B. sell them via their website before the end of the year with delivery guaranteed by March 31, 2011 to give them time to repackage them in individual holders (do you want one sent loose in a padded mailer?), or
C. announce that they have been reclassified as numismatic (due to the high prices they were selling at?) and sell them after the first of the year.
TD >>
I will laugh so hard if they do B. or C. and charge $1500 per set and hear the formerly outraged say how good it is because now you get a box.
The problem is that the end price is now artificially high no matter what you do. It's been hyped now. There's really no way to know what the market price would have been without the hype. When the mintage went from 100,000 to 33,000 it was bound to become a hot issue. That's not the problem. The law specifies that the coins be distributed at a premium structure comparable to other bullion products. The problem has been the way that the distributors violated their agreements and the authorizing legislation from the get-go, using the lower mintage numbers as a "perfect storm" reason in order to gouge the crap out of the public.
The price was immediately $500 more than it should have been, regardless of the market action that ensued after that. There is a big difference between a distributor who unethically and illegally exploits his deal with the Mint vs. the guy who buys at a high price and jacks his selling price up to "what the market will bear". A big difference.
I knew it would happen.
probably more like $190 or less per coin (spot at $30)
and we wont have AP's saying they are holding some back, not selling now, sold them all to one person, etc etc etc
they all get sold the same way. very consistent.
it took 18-19 hours to sell 1,000, it'll take a lot longer to sell 33,000 (especially when only ONE set per customer/HH is imposed)
(I would assume that most of the 135,000 P-mint numismatic coins have already been encapsulated).
"We guarantee you a coin if and when the mint ever ships these coasters!!!! Shipment will be within 8 months and substitutions for any other US Mint silver coin in genuine condition may take place without prior notice.
2010 America the Beautiful 5 coin, 5 ounce Silver set
Pricing based on normal coin dealer markup as managed by the US Mint
Note: Your coin may be bent by light handling or if the ambient temperature rises above 89 degrees during shipment.
~~ Just Released by the Mint (MAYBE) ~~
Mintage of each coin is aprx. 33,000, Shipment of each coin....Who Knows????"
I really like this seller! And I especially like this sentance "Pricing based on normal coin dealer markup as managed by the US Mint"
<< <i>How fast can they order 165,000 single coin capsules?
(I would assume that most of the 135,000 P-mint numismatic coins have already been encapsulated). >>
Who says they have to be encapsulated?
<< <i>Wonderful. Now I guess I may not receive my order. Fantastic. Tyranny of the whiny. >>
Not everybody has a "90% 0ver Spot" bank wad to throw in the toilet.
Tell ya what, If the mint sells these online at $1,000 per set, don't bother ordering. I'll order them for ya and then resell them to you for say $1,700.
Your worries would be over! I'll guarantee you to get at least one set at that price or refund the entire amount to you! How's that?
The name is LEE!
<< <i>eBay BIN for $825,000
"We guarantee you a coin if and when the mint ever ships these coasters!!!! Shipment will be within 8 months and substitutions for any other US Mint silver coin in genuine condition may take place without prior notice.
2010 America the Beautiful 5 coin, 5 ounce Silver set
Pricing based on normal coin dealer markup as managed by the US Mint
Note: Your coin may be bent by light handling or if the ambient temperature rises above 89 degrees during shipment.
~~ Just Released by the Mint (MAYBE) ~~
Mintage of each coin is aprx. 33,000, Shipment of each coin....Who Knows????"
I really like this seller! And I especially like this sentance "Pricing based on normal coin dealer markup as managed by the US Mint"
Hey....but you get 200 in ebay bucks!
I knew it would happen.
i think any limitation on orders per household could also drive prices higher because the price has to go high enough to get people to sell the only coins they have assuming everyone is honest. This move by the mint may actually backfire is what I am saying, and make these even hotter than they are.
BTW I doubt there is any chance of a change in legislation before the end of this year, and the mint will go back to the dealers next year with the bullion coins anyways. They are probably drafting the rules for the dealers to sell these right now is my guess, anyway should be interesting to see what happens. I have an order in already as backup.
Perhaps a Presidential Order changing the distribution is feasible.
the law is clear.
authorized purchasers network is to be used, and
bullion coins ar to be made, and which
they must be sold in the year the quarters were issued
hopes of bypassing the APs must rely upon a change in the law
reclassification would certainly draw very winnable lawsuits, and would have the mint NOT producing bullion, which is against the law.
<< <i>it would take a small miracle to change the law and have the mint sell these direct.
the law is clear.
authorized purchasers network is to be used, and
bullion coins ar to be made, and which
they must be sold in the year the quarters were issued
hopes of bypassing the APs must rely upon a change in the law
reclassification would certainly draw very winnable lawsuits, and would have the mint NOT producing bullion, which is against the law. >>
OK, sell every official distributor one box each at bullion prices.
Then sell the rest direct.
the law is clear.
BUT
So is the AP agreement...
The approved firms will also be required to agree that:
- Disputes concerning the purchase of coins under the agreement will be resolved by the United States District Court, District of Columbia, according to federal law, and that the jurisdiction and venue of that court is agreed to by the AP.
- Failure to adhere to the terms and conditions of the agreement may result in immediate unilateral termination of the firm as an AP of silver bullion coins. In addition, the United States Mint reserves the right to discontinue selling silver bullion coins to an AP if, in the judgment of the United States Mint, the best interests of the U. S. government and the silver bullion coin program so indicate.
<< <i>
<< <i>Wonderful. Now I guess I may not receive my order. Fantastic. Tyranny of the whiny. >>
Not everybody has a "90% 0ver Spot" bank wad to throw in the toilet.
Tell ya what, If the mint sells these online at $1,000 per set, don't bother ordering. I'll order them for ya and then resell them to you for say $1,700.
Your worries would be over! I'll guarantee you to get at least one set at that price or refund the entire amount to you! How's that? >>
I highly doubt the Mint will sell them for that price but I did have one at that price. Who knows now. Now I may have to buy from a flipper. Not really. I will just pass.