I agree they need to set a price and release the coins. Next year the mint can make as many of the 2011 coins as they want and none of this will matter. They should forget about postponing the release into next year because they already promised to do it this week.
<< <i>You should have received an email from them prior to that stating the orders are on hold. This is only an email that they received your money order payment. >>
I did receive the AMPEX "hold email" days eariler.
My point on posting this email was to show that AMPEX is going to ship me the coins...............IF the US mint would only ship them out.
At this point, nobody is complaining about the $1395 price.
So what's the problem?
All charges have been dropped. This is fast becoming a Mint screwing up again instead of APMEX. >>
I am beginning to wonder if the reaction is the Mint getting back at the complainers for the headache they caused. You know bureaucrats don't like to get headaches, they like to give them.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i> The mint is interested in a reasonable price on these and that is why they halted sales. >>
This is the part that gets me going.....Do you REALLY think the Mint should have ANY say in what dealers charge for their products??? >>
For AP's --------Yes. They ABSOLUTELY have that right for "Investment Bullion" products which was the entire reason for stipulating that as an AP, they wouldn't gouge the public out of the gate.
I don't care if the AP is an established dealer or just some big investment house, the entire purpose behind the American Eagle Bullion Program (which gave birth to the AP Program) was to act as a vehicle for getting investment grade bullion into the hands of Joe Public at an easy to handle cost instead of 100oz bars.
From this web page:"Congressionally authorized American Eagle Bullion Coins provide investors with a convenient and cost-effective way to add a small amount of physical platinum, gold, or silver to their investment portfolios. Since their launch in 1986, gold, platinum and silver American Eagles have become leading bullion coin investment products."
If folks want to sell their bullion at outrageous prices after they get it from the AP's then thats simply the way its played.
But to get AP approval for the purpose of gouging the public, is just plain defeating the purpose of the bullion program. Folks out to be blaming Congress for this fiasco since they are the one's who don't seem to have a clue in either 3" "coins" or naming "authorized purchasers" in their little PAC law.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i> The mint is interested in a reasonable price on these and that is why they halted sales. >>
This is the part that gets me going.....Do you REALLY think the Mint should have ANY say in what dealers charge for their products??? >>
For AP's --------Yes. They ABSOLUTELY have that right for "Investment Bullion" products which was the entire reason for stipulating that as an AP, they wouldn't gouge the public out of the gate.
I don't care if the AP is an established dealer or just some big investment house, the entire purpose behind the American Eagle Bullion Program (which gave birth to the AP Program) was to act as a vehicle for getting investment grade bullion into the hands of Joe Public at an easy to handle cost instead of 100oz bars.
From this web page:"Congressionally authorized American Eagle Bullion Coins provide investors with a convenient and cost-effective way to add a small amount of physical platinum, gold, or silver to their investment portfolios. Since their launch in 1986, gold, platinum and silver American Eagles have become leading bullion coin investment products."
If folks want to sell their bullion at outrageous prices after they get it from the AP's then thats simply the way its played.
But to get AP approval for the purpose of gouging the public, is just plain defeating the purpose of the bullion program. Folks out to be blaming Congress for this fiasco since they are the one's who don't seem to have a clue in either 3" "coins" or naming "authorized purchasers" in their little PAC law. >>
I also don't think they should abuse their privilege but if "cost-effective" bullion is what you want it is still available in the American Eagle program. The law in the post really seems to be addressing the AE program. The ATB issue is really a quirk and the very limited mintage points to the reality that this is really not a bullion product in the typical sense. I really think it would have been better to ignore this AP indiscretion or taken it up directly with them because I wouldn't see it happening again anyway.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i> The mint is interested in a reasonable price on these and that is why they halted sales. >>
This is the part that gets me going.....Do you REALLY think the Mint should have ANY say in what dealers charge for their products??? >>
For AP's --------Yes. They ABSOLUTELY have that right for "Investment Bullion" products which was the entire reason for stipulating that as an AP, they wouldn't gouge the public out of the gate.
I don't care if the AP is an established dealer or just some big investment house, the entire purpose behind the American Eagle Bullion Program (which gave birth to the AP Program) was to act as a vehicle for getting investment grade bullion into the hands of Joe Public at an easy to handle cost instead of 100oz bars.
From this web page:"Congressionally authorized American Eagle Bullion Coins provide investors with a convenient and cost-effective way to add a small amount of physical platinum, gold, or silver to their investment portfolios. Since their launch in 1986, gold, platinum and silver American Eagles have become leading bullion coin investment products."
If folks want to sell their bullion at outrageous prices after they get it from the AP's then thats simply the way its played.
But to get AP approval for the purpose of gouging the public, is just plain defeating the purpose of the bullion program. Folks out to be blaming Congress for this fiasco since they are the one's who don't seem to have a clue in either 3" "coins" or naming "authorized purchasers" in their little PAC law. >>
I also don't think they should abuse their privilege but if "cost-effective" bullion is what you want it is still available in the American Eagle program. The law in the post really seems to be addressing the AE program. The ATB issue is really a quirk and the very limited mintage points to the reality that this is really not a bullion product in the typical sense. I really think it would have been better to ignore this AP indiscretion or taken it up directly with them because I wouldn't see it happening again anyway. >>
Coinsponge, Your post seems to make about as much sense as any that I have read. If people want bullion then you are right the silver eagles are available. If they want the Silver parks many here think they will be trading at just above bullion in the not to distant future so if people wait a little while they can get them for less. Provident looks like they will be selling them for $899 if people don't want to wait very long. This wasn't a normal coin. The people that bought at $1395 were all big boys and girls and if they thought they were getting an unfair deal they wouldn't have bought. People can form their own opinions on the AP's and they can decide who they want or don't want to do business with. It was a unique situation and in hindsight a lot of the parties involved might have done things differently if they could do over again. Maybe the lesson learned here will cause changes in the future that will be positive for all. It is time to move on and release the coins though.
I really hope Provident can come thru with that price. This might be a goodwill gesture to try and steal customers who are now disillusioned with APMEX.
Complete baloney. Like they are privey to any official new info or can offer them for that price. Can anyone actually confirm they were able to BUY a set... or did they just "sell out" too fast??? Not going to hold my breath on this one.
FWIW I have sold Provident over 120 oz of silver and they always deliver promptly. Let's just say they have been my go to dealer for the past year. Thir shipping and handling is cheaper than anyone out there, the cerdit card fees they charge for CC orders are less than anyone out there. Overall a great outfit...theyre off to a great start.
<< <i>I also don't think they should abuse their privilege but if "cost-effective" bullion is what you want it is still available in the American Eagle program. The law in the post really seems to be addressing the AE program. The ATB issue is really a quirk and the very limited mintage points to the reality that this is really not a bullion product in the typical sense. I really think it would have been better to ignore this AP indiscretion or taken it up directly with them because I wouldn't see it happening again anyway. >>
It most certainly is a "bullion" product which will be minted along with the rest of the quarters ans SAE snd GAE and PAE's.
It's also a "quirky" bullion product given its size and "WTH were they (Congress) thinking?" factor.
No doubt about it, this entire thing has been hosed from the gitgo. (Signing of the Law and the Late Implementation)
Perhaps some real changes need to be made?
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Well thanks for the post this is more the price i had in mind signed up also for 1 set........................wooohooooooo >>
Just so you know...just because you put it on the wish list doesnt mean they will send you an email when it is available. Matter of fact I doubt they will send you an email being that this is just that...a wish list for otehrs to see and not as a means to give you notice when it is available
Well thanks for the post this is more the price i had in mind signed up also for 1 set........................wooohooooooo >>
Just so you know...just because you put it on the wish list doesnt mean they will send you an email when it is available. Matter of fact I doubt they will send you an email being that this is just that...a wish list for otehrs to see and not as a means to give you notice when it is available >>
either way i have talked to two other places that also have told me that first the price will be around 900 bucks second they will start selling this week, so whether this is a test or not will see, my guess is the others will start listing these this week and yes i bet you i get a set for the 1000 dollar limit that i have put on these............
I also don't think they should abuse their privilege
That's exactly right. Just stop right there and you have it right.
but if "cost-effective" bullion is what you want it is still available in the American Eagle program. The law in the post really seems to be addressing the AE program.
The law is clear. The ATBs are written into the BULLION law. It is clear, and you want to interpret it to include your order but to exclude those who protested Apmex's gouging program. Just two questions - how many sets did you order at $1,395.00 and were you planning to flip them right away?
It's an honest question. I have nothing against that idea, except for the gouging by Apmex - but it does illustrate a point. If you plan on flipping a coin right away, you don't really care about the price, only the margin. If you plan on keeping a newly-issued coin, you absolutely do care about the issue price.
The ATB issue is really a quirk and the very limited mintage points to the reality that this is really not a bullion product in the typical sense. I really think it would have been better to ignore this AP indiscretion or taken it up directly with them because I wouldn't see it happening again anyway.
It is what it is. My position is that by placing a gouging price order with Apmex should entitle the Apmex customers to nothing, period - except with Apmex. They owe their customers an explanation, but nobody else owes the Apmex customers a thing, nor should Apmex's soliciting of orders entitle them to anything either.
The law and the distributor agreement weren't being followed in spirit or in fact. THAT is the problem and that's been the problem since Apmex posted their pricing. The bogus market on ebay is irrelevant, and so is the fact that flippers (RE: day traders) were ready to buy from Apmex at the gouge price.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>either way i have talked to two other places that also have told me that first the price will be around 900 bucks second they will start selling this week, so whether this is a test or not will see, my guess is the others will start listing these this week and yes i bet you i get a set for the 1000 dollar limit that i have put on these............ >>
Great news that this is not just one dealer and that other dealers seem to be on board with that pricing. If that price holds that will put each hockey puck at around $180 or $36/ounce or a premium of $20 per coin which absolutely in line with other products of like kind.
<< <i> And I can also see lots of non paying bidder strikes...Ebay does give chances on that (I think). May be wise toy use your one strike on Ebay LOL >>
Hmmmmm.....most of the higher priced sales were BIN's which usually require immediate payment. I wonder...........
Most of the single coin sales were auctions and hopefully payment was held until coin availability....but still a non pay strike....probably worth sucking up the strike on this one though
Thanks for the link to Provident! So where do they get their supply if they are not one of the APs? The $899 price listed on their website is either a tease or a loss-leader - it's only about $150 above cost for the APs. That isn't a lot of profit to split between two...
The America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coins should have been released on December 6, 2010, but instead the program has been delayed by the United States Mint. The delay was prompted by widespread complaints about secondary market prices, which had risen to more than two times the value of the 5 ounces of silver content.
As a bullion product, the coins were to be distributed through the US Mint's network of authorized purchasers. A small group of primary distributors would be allowed to purchase the coins directly from the Mint at a price based on the market value of the silver content plus a premium of $9.75 per coin. Because of the expected high demand for the coins and the limited mintage available, the Mint urged the primary distributors to keep prices reasonable.
At least one primary distributor began offering the coins for sale at a premium of around $130 per coin over the market value of the silver content. Other bullion and coin dealers further down the distribution chain began offering the coins for even higher prices. The situation ultimately led to a flood of complaints, which caused the US Mint to halt deliveries to primary distributors while they determined the best course of action.
Based on a statement provided by the US Mint, they are currently, "evaluating these reports and collecting information in order to assess the appropriate course of action to make certain that our customers are best served in the distribution of the coins, and to ensure the widest possible availability, accessibility and affordability of these coins."
The situation stems from the fact that each of the five 2010 America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coins will have production of only 33,000 units each. The low mintage and high demand for the coins make them more akin to modern rarities than bullion coins. The other bullion coins distributed through authorized purchasers are produced in large quantities to ensure that they are priced and treated like commodities.
In order to accomplish their goals of "availability, accessibility, and affordability," the natural course of action for the US Mint would be to distribute the coins directly to the public. The US Mint has sold low mintage numismatic products to the public in the past. They have imposed ordering limits or other procedures deemed necessary to achieve fair and widespread distribution.
Unfortunately, this option does not seem to be allowed under the law authorizing the bullion series, which calls for the coins to be distributed through the authorized purchaser network.
Other seemingly logical options such as selling the 2010 releases into the following year or completely scrapping the program for 2010 are also not possible under law. The Mint is required to strike and make the coins available for sale. The bullion coins may only be available for sale during the year in which the corresponding circulating quarter dollars are issued.
Keeping in mind the legal requirements, what options does the US Mint really have for the America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coins?
1. Distribute existing production through AP's and require them to keep prices at a "reasonable" level set by the US Mint. The problem with this option is that the US Mint can only impose such pricing requirements at the primary distributor level. Most primary distributors don't sell directly to the public, but resell to other bullion dealers. The retail prices would simply be marked up at the next level before reaching the consumer. 2. Distribute the existing production through the National Park Service. The authorizing legislation allows the NPS to purchase the bullion coins directly from the Mint for resale to the public. Currently the NPS uses partner organizations or concessioners operating under contract to sell products at National Parks. Potentially, the NPS could create pricing and distribution guidelines for their concessioners to follow when offering the coins for sale. The US Mint could assist the NPS in formulating these guidelines. 3. Increase the premiums charged to primary distributors to a higher level. It seems possible that the US Mint may have underestimated the costs of production anyway. One long time coin dealer stated that their calculations were likely based on much higher production levels, which would have allocated fixed costs over a greater number of units. The US Mint could recalculate the premium charged to primary distributors based on the actual limited production. This would prevent primary distributors from absorbing additional premiums, which were really just attributable to misallocated costs borne by the Mint. 4. Increase the number of 2010 ATB Silver Bullion Coin minted to a level appropriate for a bullion product. The Secretary of the Treasury has discretion to establish the number of bullion coins available, so the number authorized could certainly be increased. However, with a complicated manufacturing process and less than one month to go, additional production is probably not be possible. Presumably, the low production level announced was the maximum number that the US Mint could reasonably produce before year end. 5. Seek a change to the legal requirements for the coins. This would require some very prompt action from Congress, which seems unlikely. At mid year or earlier, the US Mint had asked for modifications to some of the more troublesome specifications for the 5 ounce bullion series. The bill containing these fixes (and a questionable modification to the Gold and Silver Eagle laws) was only recently passed in the House and Senate.
When the US Mint announced the halt of the America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coin Program, I hope they realized that an easy solution was not apparent. Whatever choice they make to address the issues created by this year's coins will likely upset someone. Even though they haven't been issued yet, the coins have already been sold and resold on the secondary market based on a certain production and rarity perception.
<< <i>I just signed up with Provident. Nice website they have there. Anybody know how big an outfit they are? >>
This might be a marketing gimick..... >>
Who knows? If you get on their wish list they now have your contact information for telemarketing purposes, and are no longer bound by the Federal Do Not Call list restrictions because they now have a business relationship with you.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
If you get on their wish list they now have your contact information for telemarketing purposes, and are no longer bound by the Federal Do Not Call list restrictions because they now have a business relationship with you.
Irritating potential customers is no way to gain clients. Besides, that's why they invented "call blocking".
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Who knows? If you get on their wish list they now have your contact information for telemarketing purposes, and are no longer bound by the Federal Do Not Call list restrictions because they now have a business relationship with you.
Entirely possible...
This tactic is a way of going from their wish list to my s**t list...
Positive transactions with Cladiator, Meltdown, ajbauman, LeeG, route66,DennisH,Hmann,FilamCoins,mgoodm3,terburn88,MrOrganic, weg,dcarr,guitarwes,Zubie,Barndog,wondercoin,braddick,etc...
well now on there site it is showing a price of 01 cents wooohoo its getting cheaper, my bet is there going on sale ...................soon.....maybe ...........500 sets on a wishlist? testing the waters? tick tock tick tock..................
Re: Provident. Looks like they are doing a pricing update. Whereas the price listed earlier today was $899.99, right now its at .01, that's uno centavo...
It no longer has a price of $899 on Provident's site, it is showing a price of .01 and the note "These have been temporarily suspended by the mint and there is no price at this time". I don't think they will be able to sell these for $899 a set.
<< <i>Who knows? If you get on their wish list they now have your contact information for telemarketing purposes, and are no longer bound by the Federal Do Not Call list restrictions because they now have a business relationship with you.
Entirely possible...
This tactic is a way of going from their wish list to my s**t list... >>
When I signed up, I didn't give address or phone info, only my email.
This is the newest proclamation from them :The US Mint has temporarily suspended all shipments of these coins until further notice and we will not be taking pre-orders or placing customers on a waiting list. We hope to have them available shortly.
NO PRICE HAS BEEN SET FOR THESE COINS AT THIS TIME! ahhh what? 899.99 hmmmm poooooof..................
<< <i>buy the sets sold for $2779 for $899......ka-ching!
...Single coins sold for $684 now bought for $180...ka-ching
Not if the ebayers get wind of the new pricing and cancel their orders or dispute their charges on the CCs for the presales. >>
Those of you who believe that the pucks will be less expensive, without some kind of catch, then what APMEX originally priced them at....well, keep on dreaming. The Mint created this "rarity" and the only way they can get out of this clstrfck is by increasing the cost to the AP, which will be passed on to those who are interest in them.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
he Mint created this "rarity" and the only way they can get out of this clstrfck is by increasing the cost to the AP
Does the law allow them to do that? Wouldn't that be price gouging by the mint then. I stayed away from buying into this mania but it becomes $1,000 a set, then I will buy. If not, I will wait till they are offered next year.
Comments
<< <i>You should have received an email from them prior to that stating the orders are on hold. This is only an email that they received your money order payment. >>
I did receive the AMPEX "hold email" days eariler.
My point on posting this email was to show that AMPEX is going to ship me the coins...............IF the US mint would only ship them out.
<< <i>I say, RELEASE THE COINS.
At this point, nobody is complaining about the $1395 price.
So what's the problem?
All charges have been dropped. This is fast becoming a Mint screwing up again instead of APMEX. >>
I am beginning to wonder if the reaction is the Mint getting back at the complainers for the headache they caused. You know bureaucrats don't like to get headaches, they like to give them.
<< <i>
<< <i> The mint is interested in a reasonable price on these and that is why they halted sales. >>
This is the part that gets me going.....Do you REALLY think the Mint should have ANY say in what dealers charge for their products???
>>
For AP's --------Yes. They ABSOLUTELY have that right for "Investment Bullion" products which was the entire reason for stipulating that as an AP, they wouldn't gouge the public out of the gate.
I don't care if the AP is an established dealer or just some big investment house, the entire purpose behind the American Eagle Bullion Program (which gave birth to the AP Program) was to act as a vehicle for getting investment grade bullion into the hands of Joe Public at an easy to handle cost instead of 100oz bars.
From this web page:"Congressionally authorized American Eagle Bullion Coins provide investors with a convenient and cost-effective way to add a small amount of physical platinum, gold, or silver to their investment portfolios. Since their launch in 1986, gold, platinum and silver American Eagles have become leading bullion coin investment products."
If folks want to sell their bullion at outrageous prices after they get it from the AP's then thats simply the way its played.
But to get AP approval for the purpose of gouging the public, is just plain defeating the purpose of the bullion program. Folks out to be blaming Congress for this fiasco since they are the one's who don't seem to have a clue in either 3" "coins" or naming "authorized purchasers" in their little PAC law.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i> The mint is interested in a reasonable price on these and that is why they halted sales. >>
This is the part that gets me going.....Do you REALLY think the Mint should have ANY say in what dealers charge for their products???
>>
For AP's --------Yes. They ABSOLUTELY have that right for "Investment Bullion" products which was the entire reason for stipulating that as an AP, they wouldn't gouge the public out of the gate.
I don't care if the AP is an established dealer or just some big investment house, the entire purpose behind the American Eagle Bullion Program (which gave birth to the AP Program) was to act as a vehicle for getting investment grade bullion into the hands of Joe Public at an easy to handle cost instead of 100oz bars.
From this web page:"Congressionally authorized American Eagle Bullion Coins provide investors with a convenient and cost-effective way to add a small amount of physical platinum, gold, or silver to their investment portfolios. Since their launch in 1986, gold, platinum and silver American Eagles have become leading bullion coin investment products."
If folks want to sell their bullion at outrageous prices after they get it from the AP's then thats simply the way its played.
But to get AP approval for the purpose of gouging the public, is just plain defeating the purpose of the bullion program. Folks out to be blaming Congress for this fiasco since they are the one's who don't seem to have a clue in either 3" "coins" or naming "authorized purchasers" in their little PAC law. >>
I also don't think they should abuse their privilege but if "cost-effective" bullion is what you want it is still available in the American Eagle program. The law in the post really seems to be addressing the AE program. The ATB issue is really a quirk and the very limited mintage points to the reality that this is really not a bullion product in the typical sense. I really think it would have been better to ignore this AP indiscretion or taken it up directly with them because I wouldn't see it happening again anyway.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i> The mint is interested in a reasonable price on these and that is why they halted sales. >>
This is the part that gets me going.....Do you REALLY think the Mint should have ANY say in what dealers charge for their products???
>>
For AP's --------Yes. They ABSOLUTELY have that right for "Investment Bullion" products which was the entire reason for stipulating that as an AP, they wouldn't gouge the public out of the gate.
I don't care if the AP is an established dealer or just some big investment house, the entire purpose behind the American Eagle Bullion Program (which gave birth to the AP Program) was to act as a vehicle for getting investment grade bullion into the hands of Joe Public at an easy to handle cost instead of 100oz bars.
From this web page:"Congressionally authorized American Eagle Bullion Coins provide investors with a convenient and cost-effective way to add a small amount of physical platinum, gold, or silver to their investment portfolios. Since their launch in 1986, gold, platinum and silver American Eagles have become leading bullion coin investment products."
If folks want to sell their bullion at outrageous prices after they get it from the AP's then thats simply the way its played.
But to get AP approval for the purpose of gouging the public, is just plain defeating the purpose of the bullion program. Folks out to be blaming Congress for this fiasco since they are the one's who don't seem to have a clue in either 3" "coins" or naming "authorized purchasers" in their little PAC law. >>
I also don't think they should abuse their privilege but if "cost-effective" bullion is what you want it is still available in the American Eagle program. The law in the post really seems to be addressing the AE program. The ATB issue is really a quirk and the very limited mintage points to the reality that this is really not a bullion product in the typical sense. I really think it would have been better to ignore this AP indiscretion or taken it up directly with them because I wouldn't see it happening again anyway. >>
<< <i>Provident's site has been showing $1365 or something like that for a set...I just checked and they now show $899 >>
Thanks, I just added one to my wish list!
<< <i>
<< <i>Provident's site has been showing $1365 or something like that for a set...I just checked and they now show $899 >>
Thanks, I just added one to my wish list! >>
Does that mean Santa might bring a set around the 25th if you have been a good boy or girl?
<< <i>Provident's site has been showing $1365 or something like that for a set...I just checked and they now show $899 >>
I can't get the Provident link to work nor to even get on thier web site. Are any of you having this problem?
<< <i>
My point on posting this email was to show that AMPEX is going to ship me the coins...............IF the US mint would only ship them out. >>
Sorry fivecents i hope they are shipping too.
<< <i>Hi,I can not get in also.Wonder if pre orders from monaco and apmex will be price adjusted and order quanity redone to only 1. >>
Thanks!
<< <i>Thanks, I just added one to my wish list! >>
Me too! I wish I could get a set for $899!
<< <i>$899 >>
Complete baloney. Like they are privey to any official new info or can offer them for that price. Can anyone actually confirm they were able to BUY a set... or did they just "sell out" too fast??? Not going to hold my breath on this one.
<< <i>I just signed up with Provident. Nice website they have there. Anybody know how big an outfit they are?
This might be a marketing gimick.....
I suspect the price will inflate and deflate like a souffle gone bad.I
intend to stay far away from this Mint Product, pretty as they may be.
Too much profit is being made, before the damn things get in the hands
of collectors.
Camelot
<< <i>
This might be a marketing gimick..... >>
Either a marketing gimick or there's been a price decision and they're the first to post. I'm thinking marketing gimick.
APMEX has a buying price of $1,200 listed on their site for these 5 ozers. Was I just blind before or is this new?
<< <i>I also don't think they should abuse their privilege but if "cost-effective" bullion is what you want it is still available in the American Eagle program. The law in the post really seems to be addressing the AE program. The ATB issue is really a quirk and the very limited mintage points to the reality that this is really not a bullion product in the typical sense. I really think it would have been better to ignore this AP indiscretion or taken it up directly with them because I wouldn't see it happening again anyway. >>
It most certainly is a "bullion" product which will be minted along with the rest of the quarters ans SAE snd GAE and PAE's.
It's also a "quirky" bullion product given its size and "WTH were they (Congress) thinking?" factor.
No doubt about it, this entire thing has been hosed from the gitgo. (Signing of the Law and the Late Implementation)
Perhaps some real changes need to be made?
The name is LEE!
<< <i>$899 >>
Well thanks for the post this is more the price i had in mind signed up also for 1 set........................wooohooooooo
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
<< <i>
<< <i>$899 >>
Well thanks for the post this is more the price i had in mind signed up also for 1 set........................wooohooooooo
Just so you know...just because you put it on the wish list doesnt mean they will send you an email when it is available. Matter of fact I doubt they will send you an email being that this is just that...a wish list for otehrs to see and not as a means to give you notice when it is available
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>$899 >>
Well thanks for the post this is more the price i had in mind signed up also for 1 set........................wooohooooooo
Just so you know...just because you put it on the wish list doesnt mean they will send you an email when it is available. Matter of fact I doubt they will send you an email being that this is just that...a wish list for otehrs to see and not as a means to give you notice when it is available >>
either way i have talked to two other places that also have told me that first the price will be around 900 bucks second they will start selling this week, so whether this is a test or not will see, my guess is the others will start listing these this week and yes i bet you i get a set for the 1000 dollar limit that i have put on these............
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
Box of 20
That's exactly right. Just stop right there and you have it right.
but if "cost-effective" bullion is what you want it is still available in the American Eagle program. The law in the post really seems to be addressing the AE program.
The law is clear. The ATBs are written into the BULLION law. It is clear, and you want to interpret it to include your order but to exclude those who protested Apmex's gouging program. Just two questions - how many sets did you order at $1,395.00 and were you planning to flip them right away?
It's an honest question. I have nothing against that idea, except for the gouging by Apmex - but it does illustrate a point. If you plan on flipping a coin right away, you don't really care about the price, only the margin. If you plan on keeping a newly-issued coin, you absolutely do care about the issue price.
The ATB issue is really a quirk and the very limited mintage points to the reality that this is really not a bullion product in the typical sense. I really think it would have been better to ignore this AP indiscretion or taken it up directly with them because I wouldn't see it happening again anyway.
It is what it is. My position is that by placing a gouging price order with Apmex should entitle the Apmex customers to nothing, period - except with Apmex. They owe their customers an explanation, but nobody else owes the Apmex customers a thing, nor should Apmex's soliciting of orders entitle them to anything either.
The law and the distributor agreement weren't being followed in spirit or in fact. THAT is the problem and that's been the problem since Apmex posted their pricing. The bogus market on ebay is irrelevant, and so is the fact that flippers (RE: day traders) were ready to buy from Apmex at the gouge price.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>either way i have talked to two other places that also have told me that first the price will be around 900 bucks second they will start selling this week, so whether this is a test or not will see, my guess is the others will start listing these this week and yes i bet you i get a set for the 1000 dollar limit that i have put on these............ >>
Great news that this is not just one dealer and that other dealers seem to be on board with that pricing. If that price holds that will put each hockey puck at around $180 or $36/ounce or a premium of $20 per coin which absolutely in line with other products of like kind.
My max price on these was $1000, so I passed when Apmex posted them.
I added myself to Provident's wish list. Nothing ventured etc, etc..
... buy the sets sold for $2779 for $899......ka-ching!
...Single coins sold for $684 now bought for $180...ka-ching
<< <i>I can see those Ebay pre-selling flippers licking their chops if this price if it holds...
... buy the sets sold for $2779 for $899......ka-ching!
...Single coins sold for $684 now bought for $180...ka-ching >>
And I can also see lots of non paying bidder strikes...Ebay does give chances on that (I think). May be wise toy use your one strike on Ebay LOL
<< <i> And I can also see lots of non paying bidder strikes...Ebay does give chances on that (I think). May be wise toy use your one strike on Ebay LOL >>
Hmmmmm.....most of the higher priced sales were BIN's which usually require immediate payment. I wonder...........
Most of the single coin sales were auctions and hopefully payment was held until coin availability....but still a non pay strike....probably worth sucking up the strike on this one though
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
The America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coins should have been released on December 6, 2010, but instead the program has been delayed by the United States Mint. The delay was prompted by widespread complaints about secondary market prices, which had risen to more than two times the value of the 5 ounces of silver content.
As a bullion product, the coins were to be distributed through the US Mint's network of authorized purchasers. A small group of primary distributors would be allowed to purchase the coins directly from the Mint at a price based on the market value of the silver content plus a premium of $9.75 per coin. Because of the expected high demand for the coins and the limited mintage available, the Mint urged the primary distributors to keep prices reasonable.
At least one primary distributor began offering the coins for sale at a premium of around $130 per coin over the market value of the silver content. Other bullion and coin dealers further down the distribution chain began offering the coins for even higher prices. The situation ultimately led to a flood of complaints, which caused the US Mint to halt deliveries to primary distributors while they determined the best course of action.
Based on a statement provided by the US Mint, they are currently, "evaluating these reports and collecting information in order to assess the appropriate course of action to make certain that our customers are best served in the distribution of the coins, and to ensure the widest possible availability, accessibility and affordability of these coins."
The situation stems from the fact that each of the five 2010 America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coins will have production of only 33,000 units each. The low mintage and high demand for the coins make them more akin to modern rarities than bullion coins. The other bullion coins distributed through authorized purchasers are produced in large quantities to ensure that they are priced and treated like commodities.
In order to accomplish their goals of "availability, accessibility, and affordability," the natural course of action for the US Mint would be to distribute the coins directly to the public. The US Mint has sold low mintage numismatic products to the public in the past. They have imposed ordering limits or other procedures deemed necessary to achieve fair and widespread distribution.
Unfortunately, this option does not seem to be allowed under the law authorizing the bullion series, which calls for the coins to be distributed through the authorized purchaser network.
Other seemingly logical options such as selling the 2010 releases into the following year or completely scrapping the program for 2010 are also not possible under law. The Mint is required to strike and make the coins available for sale. The bullion coins may only be available for sale during the year in which the corresponding circulating quarter dollars are issued.
Keeping in mind the legal requirements, what options does the US Mint really have for the America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coins?
1. Distribute existing production through AP's and require them to keep prices at a "reasonable" level set by the US Mint. The problem with this option is that the US Mint can only impose such pricing requirements at the primary distributor level. Most primary distributors don't sell directly to the public, but resell to other bullion dealers. The retail prices would simply be marked up at the next level before reaching the consumer.
2. Distribute the existing production through the National Park Service. The authorizing legislation allows the NPS to purchase the bullion coins directly from the Mint for resale to the public. Currently the NPS uses partner organizations or concessioners operating under contract to sell products at National Parks. Potentially, the NPS could create pricing and distribution guidelines for their concessioners to follow when offering the coins for sale. The US Mint could assist the NPS in formulating these guidelines.
3. Increase the premiums charged to primary distributors to a higher level. It seems possible that the US Mint may have underestimated the costs of production anyway. One long time coin dealer stated that their calculations were likely based on much higher production levels, which would have allocated fixed costs over a greater number of units. The US Mint could recalculate the premium charged to primary distributors based on the actual limited production. This would prevent primary distributors from absorbing additional premiums, which were really just attributable to misallocated costs borne by the Mint.
4. Increase the number of 2010 ATB Silver Bullion Coin minted to a level appropriate for a bullion product. The Secretary of the Treasury has discretion to establish the number of bullion coins available, so the number authorized could certainly be increased. However, with a complicated manufacturing process and less than one month to go, additional production is probably not be possible. Presumably, the low production level announced was the maximum number that the US Mint could reasonably produce before year end.
5. Seek a change to the legal requirements for the coins. This would require some very prompt action from Congress, which seems unlikely. At mid year or earlier, the US Mint had asked for modifications to some of the more troublesome specifications for the 5 ounce bullion series. The bill containing these fixes (and a questionable modification to the Gold and Silver Eagle laws) was only recently passed in the House and Senate.
When the US Mint announced the halt of the America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coin Program, I hope they realized that an easy solution was not apparent. Whatever choice they make to address the issues created by this year's coins will likely upset someone. Even though they haven't been issued yet, the coins have already been sold and resold on the secondary market based on a certain production and rarity perception.
<< <i>
<< <i>I just signed up with Provident. Nice website they have there. Anybody know how big an outfit they are?
This might be a marketing gimick..... >>
Who knows? If you get on their wish list they now have your contact information for telemarketing purposes, and are no longer bound by the Federal Do Not Call list restrictions because they now have a business relationship with you.
TD
Irritating potential customers is no way to gain clients. Besides, that's why they invented "call blocking".
I knew it would happen.
Entirely possible...
This tactic is a way of going from their wish list to my s**t list...
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
<< <i>$899 >>
It no longer has a price of $899 on Provident's site, it is showing a price of .01 and the note "These have been temporarily suspended by the mint and there is no price at this time". I don't think they will be able to sell these for $899 a set.
now they have to price them for a cent a set.
<< <i>Who knows? If you get on their wish list they now have your contact information for telemarketing purposes, and are no longer bound by the Federal Do Not Call list restrictions because they now have a business relationship with you.
Entirely possible...
This tactic is a way of going from their wish list to my s**t list... >>
When I signed up, I didn't give address or phone info, only my email.
...Single coins sold for $684 now bought for $180...ka-ching
Not if the ebayers get wind of the new pricing and cancel their orders or dispute their charges on the CCs for the presales.
Box of 20
NO PRICE HAS BEEN SET FOR THESE COINS AT THIS TIME!
ahhh what? 899.99 hmmmm poooooof..................
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
<< <i>buy the sets sold for $2779 for $899......ka-ching!
...Single coins sold for $684 now bought for $180...ka-ching
Not if the ebayers get wind of the new pricing and cancel their orders or dispute their charges on the CCs for the presales. >>
Those of you who believe that the pucks will be less expensive, without some kind of catch, then what APMEX originally priced them at....well, keep on dreaming. The Mint created this "rarity" and the only way they can get out of this clstrfck is by increasing the cost to the AP, which will be passed on to those who are interest in them.
Does the law allow them to do that? Wouldn't that be price gouging by the mint then. I stayed away from buying into this mania but it becomes $1,000 a set, then I will buy. If not, I will wait till they are offered next year.
Box of 20