<< <i>Been off-line for a couple of days, no time to catch up now but...
I just read the cover story in CW with the pic of the line at GC where the only actual "public" who got coins from him waited. It kills me how he is always portrayed in a positive light by CW and NN - such the victim, just trying to sell to the public -when he is clearly the worst of the APs in terms of bulk sale violations to date.
Second, I just love this from p.62 under the section "Policy Violations?": "Coin World contacted the Mint for comment on the situation. Gordon Hume, the Mint's deputy director of public affairs, stated, "The United States Mint has no evidence that the Authorized Purchasers are violating the terms and conditions of the program."
HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE??? HOW INCOMPETENT can they be??? HOW many folks have emailed/called/faxed info regarding GC bulk sales?? Just amazing. Only the Govt. >>
They didn't stipulate needing evidence to start an audit!
<< <i>Just thought I'd say...for everyone worried about the price of silver/gold/plat going forward, we seem to have hit bottom and are recovering quite bit of lost ground today.
And yeah...yeah...I know...this isn't the PM forum!
I don't think amark did any cherry picking. I think they just sent the shipment into get graded. This is a bullion dealer and have little interest or time for graded coins, just bulk sales. IMHO.
PEACE! This is the first day of the rest of your life.
<< <i>I don't think amark did any cherry picking. I think they just sent the shipment into get graded. This is a bullion dealer and have little interest or time for graded coins, just bulk sales. IMHO. >>
I know virtually nothing about these sets, so I probably don't understand the situation correctly. But if A-Mark isn't cherry picking, why are the ones I have seen, graded "Choice BU" as opposed to having specific grades on them? Wouldn't they do much better by offering some high grade examples with the grades noted on them? Why bother to pay for grading without high grades designated on the labels?
<< <i>I don't think amark did any cherry picking. I think they just sent the shipment into get graded. This is a bullion dealer and have little interest or time for graded coins, just bulk sales. IMHO. >>
I know virtually nothing about these sets, so I probably don't understand the situation correctly. But if A-Mark isn't cherry picking, why are the ones I have seen, graded "Choice BU" as opposed to having specific grades on them? Wouldn't they do much better by offering some high grade examples with the grades noted on them? Why bother to pay for grading without high grades designated on the labels? >>
Although no one knows for sure, our speculation was that, it was easier for A-Mark, located in So. Cal, to have PCGS holder the coins, under bulk, than, order capsules, put the coins in capsules, and ship that way. On one hand take the tubes from the mint and have PCGS deal with it, or deal with it yourself. they recover the cost in the S/H. The POP's on "graded" coins did not budge, so if they were "picked" they never got into holders.
<< <i>I know virtually nothing about these sets, so I probably don't understand the situation correctly. But if A-Mark isn't cherry picking, why are the ones I have seen, graded "Choice BU" as opposed to having specific grades on them? Wouldn't they do much better by offering some high grade examples with the grades noted on them? Why bother to pay for grading without high grades designated on the labels? >>
Because if they had them graded, how would they sell every set for the same price? It was cheaper for them to have them all generically slabbed by PCGS than to have them officially graded.
I really appreciate the value of the FS label... That will save $90 when I send mine in for actual grading.
My Amark set is due to arrive today! On the truck, out for delivery...
<< <i>I don't think amark did any cherry picking. I think they just sent the shipment into get graded. This is a bullion dealer and have little interest or time for graded coins, just bulk sales. IMHO. >>
I know virtually nothing about these sets, so I probably don't understand the situation correctly. But if A-Mark isn't cherry picking, why are the ones I have seen, graded "Choice BU" as opposed to having specific grades on them? Wouldn't they do much better by offering some high grade examples with the grades noted on them? Why bother to pay for grading without high grades designated on the labels? >>
Although no one knows for sure, our speculation was that, it was easier for A-Mark, located in So. Cal, to have PCGS holder the coins, under bulk, than, order capsules, put the coins in capsules, and ship that way. On one hand take the tubes from the mint and have PCGS deal with it, or deal with it yourself. they recover the cost in the S/H. The POP's on "graded" coins did not budge, so if they were "picked" they never got into holders. >>
Also our Host will do alright with so many of these going to get sent back in for regrading. Its gonna be fun to watch the pop reports in the next couple weeks...........
<< <i>I don't think amark did any cherry picking. I think they just sent the shipment into get graded. This is a bullion dealer and have little interest or time for graded coins, just bulk sales. IMHO. >>
I know virtually nothing about these sets, so I probably don't understand the situation correctly. But if A-Mark isn't cherry picking, why are the ones I have seen, graded "Choice BU" as opposed to having specific grades on them? Wouldn't they do much better by offering some high grade examples with the grades noted on them? Why bother to pay for grading without high grades designated on the labels? >>
In addition a poster a couple pages back indicated that
"I spoke to pcgs today. I asked them exactly what Amark's "Choice BU" meant. I was told it meant "they were graded as a bulk submission and where guaranteed to be between 60 and 70"
<< <i>I just read the cover story in CW with the pic of the line at GC where the only actual "public" who got coins from him waited. It kills me how he is always portrayed in a positive light by CW and NN - such the victim, just trying to sell to the public -when he is clearly the worst of the APs in terms of bulk sale violations to date.
Second, I just love this from p.62 under the section "Policy Violations?": "Coin World contacted the Mint for comment on the situation. Gordon Hume, the Mint's deputy director of public affairs, stated, "The United States Mint has no evidence that the Authorized Purchasers are violating the terms and conditions of the program."
HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE??? HOW INCOMPETENT can they be??? HOW many folks have emailed/called/faxed info regarding GC bulk sales?? Just amazing. Only the Govt. >>
<< <i>I don't think amark did any cherry picking. I think they just sent the shipment into get graded. This is a bullion dealer and have little interest or time for graded coins, just bulk sales. IMHO. >>
I know virtually nothing about these sets, so I probably don't understand the situation correctly. But if A-Mark isn't cherry picking, why are the ones I have seen, graded "Choice BU" as opposed to having specific grades on them? Wouldn't they do much better by offering some high grade examples with the grades noted on them? Why bother to pay for grading without high grades designated on the labels? >>
Although no one knows for sure, our speculation was that, it was easier for A-Mark, located in So. Cal, to have PCGS holder the coins, under bulk, than, order capsules, put the coins in capsules, and ship that way. On one hand take the tubes from the mint and have PCGS deal with it, or deal with it yourself. they recover the cost in the S/H. The POP's on "graded" coins did not budge, so if they were "picked" they never got into holders. >>
I have been told that for the PCGS bulk sets, the bulk submitters can now request only MS69 holders and the rest of the coins that fail to grade MS69 be placed in non-graded BU type holders.
<< <i>I don't think amark did any cherry picking. I think they just sent the shipment into get graded. This is a bullion dealer and have little interest or time for graded coins, just bulk sales. IMHO. >>
I know virtually nothing about these sets, so I probably don't understand the situation correctly. But if A-Mark isn't cherry picking, why are the ones I have seen, graded "Choice BU" as opposed to having specific grades on them? Wouldn't they do much better by offering some high grade examples with the grades noted on them? Why bother to pay for grading without high grades designated on the labels? >>
Although no one knows for sure, our speculation was that, it was easier for A-Mark, located in So. Cal, to have PCGS holder the coins, under bulk, than, order capsules, put the coins in capsules, and ship that way. On one hand take the tubes from the mint and have PCGS deal with it, or deal with it yourself. they recover the cost in the S/H. The POP's on "graded" coins did not budge, so if they were "picked" they never got into holders. >>
I have been told that for the PCGS bulk sets, the bulk submitters can now request only MS69 holders and the rest of the coins that fail to grade MS69 be placed in non-graded BU type holders. >>
It is true, but if A-Mark did that you would have seen the POP's jump, they did not. For instance the MS69 POP of the Mt. hood is 7.
Just received my set from AMark. I haven't seen any graded 69's in person, so I don't know the current standard, but to me, it looks like 4 of the 5 coins have no nicks/marks. My Grand Canyon has one small bag nick, which would keep it lower.
Given that the order number ran up close to 3,000 at Amark, the pop numbers of the 69's haven't risen suddenly, and my coins look decent, I don't think the coins were cherrypicked, or had the 69's held out by PCGS...but who knows?
<< <i>Just received my set from AMark. I haven't seen any graded 69's in person, so I don't know the current standard, but to me, it looks like 4 of the 5 coins have no nicks/marks. My Grand Canyon has one small bag nick, which would keep it lower.
Given that the order number ran up close to 3,000 at Amark, the pop numbers of the 69's haven't risen suddenly, and my coins look decent, I don't think the coins were cherrypicked, or had the 69's held out by PCGS...but who knows? >>
I was originally pretty critical of the sale when they stopped the numbers at 26xx and we discovered they were using PCGS to slab. But since then, the evidence has not supported cherrypicking. We won't know for sure until they sell all of their sets. So far they're at around 3k with more sets slated to sell.
Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
Mark: Just a thought while reading all of this ... in theory, wouldn't it be easy enough to simply ASK Amark if any of their submitted coins were going to receive an MS69 numerical grade (as opposed to every single coin receiving the Ch. BU designation)? And, if the answer is a resounding "no", they would probably score a great deal of goodwill by openly reporting that on their site and putting an end to the speculation. And, if the answer is "yes", they could also then state what was to become of them. Make sense?
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
......I was originally pretty critical of the sale when they stopped the numbers at 26xx and we discovered they were using PCGS to slab. But since then, the evidence has not supported cherrypicking. We won't know for sure until they sell all of their sets. So far they're at around 3k with more sets slated to sell. >>
Sell when?????
Successful BSTs with adriana, barrytrot, Bochiman, Dabigkahuna, Modern Coin Mart, oilstates2003, terburn88, THEGENERAL
<< <i>......I was originally pretty critical of the sale when they stopped the numbers at 26xx and we discovered they were using PCGS to slab. But since then, the evidence has not supported cherrypicking. We won't know for sure until they sell all of their sets. So far they're at around 3k with more sets slated to sell. >>
Sell when????? >>
I thought AMark posted a little while ago that they had enough sets for a few more sales. They did the one with the coupon codes, and maybe they're taking a breather before doing the next. I dunno.
Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
<< <i>I don't think amark did any cherry picking. I think they just sent the shipment into get graded. This is a bullion dealer and have little interest or time for graded coins, just bulk sales. IMHO. >>
I know virtually nothing about these sets, so I probably don't understand the situation correctly. But if A-Mark isn't cherry picking, why are the ones I have seen, graded "Choice BU" as opposed to having specific grades on them? Wouldn't they do much better by offering some high grade examples with the grades noted on them? Why bother to pay for grading without high grades designated on the labels? >>
Although no one knows for sure, our speculation was that, it was easier for A-Mark, located in So. Cal, to have PCGS holder the coins, under bulk, than, order capsules, put the coins in capsules, and ship that way. On one hand take the tubes from the mint and have PCGS deal with it, or deal with it yourself. they recover the cost in the S/H. The POP's on "graded" coins did not budge, so if they were "picked" they never got into holders. >>
I have been told that for the PCGS bulk sets, the bulk submitters can now request only MS69 holders and the rest of the coins that fail to grade MS69 be placed in non-graded BU type holders. >>
It is true, but if A-Mark did that you would have seen the POP's jump, they did not. For instance the MS69 POP of the Mt. hood is 7. >>
But I believe that there can be a considerable lag time between when coins are graded, vs. showing up on pop reports.
<< <i>Mark: Just a thought while reading all of this ... in theory, wouldn't it be easy enough to simply ASK Amark if any of their submitted coins were going to receive an MS69 numerical grade (as opposed to every single coin receiving the Ch. BU designation)? And, if the answer is a resounding "no", they would probably score a great deal of goodwill by openly reporting that on their site and putting an end to the speculation. And, if the answer is "yes", they could also then state what was to become of them. Make sense?
Wondercoin >>
Mitch, absolutely, if you think you can believe what they say.
<< <i>I don't think amark did any cherry picking. I think they just sent the shipment into get graded. This is a bullion dealer and have little interest or time for graded coins, just bulk sales. IMHO. >>
I know virtually nothing about these sets, so I probably don't understand the situation correctly. But if A-Mark isn't cherry picking, why are the ones I have seen, graded "Choice BU" as opposed to having specific grades on them? Wouldn't they do much better by offering some high grade examples with the grades noted on them? Why bother to pay for grading without high grades designated on the labels? >>
Mark you make a great point, but I think this was a way to get them in capsules of some form and bulk grading this way is slot more economical than going for the grade. They don't deal in graded coins nor have a easy way to sell them except to some other dealer. If that was the plan why even bother, they could off just sold off the mint shipment at profit and moved on.
PEACE! This is the first day of the rest of your life.
Mark: I understand, which is why I mentioned the answer being "openly reported" on their site (as opposed to some verbal answer by a secretary that picks up the phone on a random call).
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>......I was originally pretty critical of the sale when they stopped the numbers at 26xx and we discovered they were using PCGS to slab. But since then, the evidence has not supported cherrypicking. We won't know for sure until they sell all of their sets. So far they're at around 3k with more sets slated to sell. >>
Sell when????? >>
I thought AMark posted a little while ago that they had enough sets for a few more sales. They did the one with the coupon codes, and maybe they're taking a breather before doing the next. I dunno. >>
I was part of the second group last week with the codes. Hit my card and confirmed order, no ship info yet. I think they are still working on the first batch.
PEACE! This is the first day of the rest of your life.
<< <i>I don't think amark did any cherry picking. I think they just sent the shipment into get graded. This is a bullion dealer and have little interest or time for graded coins, just bulk sales. IMHO. >>
I know virtually nothing about these sets, so I probably don't understand the situation correctly. But if A-Mark isn't cherry picking, why are the ones I have seen, graded "Choice BU" as opposed to having specific grades on them? Wouldn't they do much better by offering some high grade examples with the grades noted on them? Why bother to pay for grading without high grades designated on the labels? >>
Although no one knows for sure, our speculation was that, it was easier for A-Mark, located in So. Cal, to have PCGS holder the coins, under bulk, than, order capsules, put the coins in capsules, and ship that way. On one hand take the tubes from the mint and have PCGS deal with it, or deal with it yourself. they recover the cost in the S/H. The POP's on "graded" coins did not budge, so if they were "picked" they never got into holders. >>
I have been told that for the PCGS bulk sets, the bulk submitters can now request only MS69 holders and the rest of the coins that fail to grade MS69 be placed in non-graded BU type holders. >>
It is true, but if A-Mark did that you would have seen the POP's jump, they did not. For instance the MS69 POP of the Mt. hood is 7. >>
But I believe that there can be a considerable lag time between when coins are graded, vs. showing up on pop reports. >>
It is certainly important to look at these guys with a critical eye. I don't think we can be too eager to jump on the AMark-fairness train until the selling stops and we can take a look at the numbers--unless those numbers get lost in a BS cloud.
Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
<< <i>I don't think amark did any cherry picking. I think they just sent the shipment into get graded. This is a bullion dealer and have little interest or time for graded coins, just bulk sales. IMHO. >>
I know virtually nothing about these sets, so I probably don't understand the situation correctly. But if A-Mark isn't cherry picking, why are the ones I have seen, graded "Choice BU" as opposed to having specific grades on them? Wouldn't they do much better by offering some high grade examples with the grades noted on them? Why bother to pay for grading without high grades designated on the labels? >>
Although no one knows for sure, our speculation was that, it was easier for A-Mark, located in So. Cal, to have PCGS holder the coins, under bulk, than, order capsules, put the coins in capsules, and ship that way. On one hand take the tubes from the mint and have PCGS deal with it, or deal with it yourself. they recover the cost in the S/H. The POP's on "graded" coins did not budge, so if they were "picked" they never got into holders. >>
I have been told that for the PCGS bulk sets, the bulk submitters can now request only MS69 holders and the rest of the coins that fail to grade MS69 be placed in non-graded BU type holders. >>
It is true, but if A-Mark did that you would have seen the POP's jump, they did not. For instance the MS69 POP of the Mt. hood is 7. >>
But I believe that there can be a considerable lag time between when coins are graded, vs. showing up on pop reports. >>
LOL - OK I will take another shot - The online POP reports get updated every Monday, so "considerable lag" is at most 1 week, there is however a back door on the POP of a coin, if you take a valid cert # for a coin in question, add it to your registry set, you will see the current running total POP on a coin. I did this for the HotSprings, I got 13 MS69's, which is also the same as the web version. From what I can tell, they have not had and graded MS69's by PCGS, or if they did, they did not get very many at all, maybe a handful from 3000 coins.
OK, so what has happened to the Apmex allotment of coins??
I'm beginning to think they are in the same category as the GC as to compliance with dispersing to the public.
First, Apmex started the whole fiasco by gouging by pushing up the price (but 'allowing' a few to be sold to public at the 'reduced' price). Then, they stopped sales.... but later sent coins to a few who had placed orders at original inflated price. In the end, instead of selling 1000 sets to the public collectors, they sold what... perhaps 400? Then, nothing but silence.
They had the coins in hand... they had the means to ship them out (obviously, some received sets). So.... where are the other sets?? How about it Apmex..... are they all gone?
First time poster, but I’ve been following this thread since the week leading up to the Gold Center “public” release.
I drove from Oklahoma to Springfield, IL to camp out and get a set of coins. There is no way that the guy sold 600 sets to the public. There were 250-300 people in that line at the most. The trip was successful, and the next day my coins were off to NGC for grading. I know this is a PCGS forum, but I really like the labels that NGC is using for each park.
Anyway, I just received my grades back from NGC and wanted to share, since I haven’t seen too many recent grades posted.
Grand Canyon: MS69 Hot Springs: MS68 Mt. Hood: MS67 Yellowstone: MS69 Yosemite: MS69PL !!!!!
I still can’t believe that Yosemite received the prooflike designation. This submission was the first time I had ever submitted coins to be graded, and I was worried that I had screwed them up somehow and that they would be returned in body bags. I did forget to submit them as Modern Special, so I didn’t get the Early Release designation.
I have a set from Amark arriving on Monday and my Fidelitrade order has been accepted. I still have no intention of selling any of the coins, but seeing what the two completed auctions for NGC MS69PLs sold for has made me at least consider selling just that coin. I think my two other sets will be shipped off to NGC to see if I can put together a set of 69s.
I just wanted to say thanks to all of you for the knowledge you’ve shared with the forum. If it weren’t for you I’d probably still be trying to get my first set. Happy hunting, and I hope everyone is happy with their sets.
<< <i>I just read the cover story in CW with the pic of the line at GC where the only actual "public" who got coins from him waited. It kills me how he is always portrayed in a positive light by CW and NN - such the victim, just trying to sell to the public -when he is clearly the worst of the APs in terms of bulk sale violations to date.
Second, I just love this from p.62 under the section "Policy Violations?": "Coin World contacted the Mint for comment on the situation. Gordon Hume, the Mint's deputy director of public affairs, stated, "The United States Mint has no evidence that the Authorized Purchasers are violating the terms and conditions of the program."
HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE??? HOW INCOMPETENT can they be??? HOW many folks have emailed/called/faxed info regarding GC bulk sales?? Just amazing. Only the Govt. >>
First time poster, but I’ve been following this thread since the week leading up to the Gold Center “public” release.
I drove from Oklahoma to Springfield, IL to camp out and get a set of coins. There is no way that the guy sold 600 sets to the public. There were 250-300 people in that line at the most. The trip was successful, and the next day my coins were off to NGC for grading. I know this is a PCGS forum, but I really like the labels that NGC is using for each park.
Anyway, I just received my grades back from NGC and wanted to share, since I haven’t seen too many recent grades posted.
Grand Canyon: MS69 Hot Springs: MS68 Mt. Hood: MS67 Yellowstone: MS69 Yosemite: MS69PL !!!!!
I still can’t believe that Yosemite received the prooflike designation. This submission was the first time I had ever submitted coins to be graded, and I was worried that I had screwed them up somehow and that they would be returned in body bags. I did forget to submit them as Modern Special, so I didn’t get the Early Release designation.
I have a set from Amark arriving on Monday and my Fidelitrade order has been accepted. I still have no intention of selling any of the coins, but seeing what the two completed auctions for NGC MS69PLs sold for has made me at least consider selling just that coin. I think my two other sets will be shipped off to NGC to see if I can put together a set of 69s.
I just wanted to say thanks to all of you for the knowledge you’ve shared with the forum. If it weren’t for you I’d probably still be trying to get my first set. Happy hunting, and I hope everyone is happy with their sets. >>
<< <i>I don't think amark did any cherry picking. I think they just sent the shipment into get graded. This is a bullion dealer and have little interest or time for graded coins, just bulk sales. IMHO. >>
I know virtually nothing about these sets, so I probably don't understand the situation correctly. But if A-Mark isn't cherry picking, why are the ones I have seen, graded "Choice BU" as opposed to having specific grades on them? Wouldn't they do much better by offering some high grade examples with the grades noted on them? Why bother to pay for grading without high grades designated on the labels? >>
Although no one knows for sure, our speculation was that, it was easier for A-Mark, located in So. Cal, to have PCGS holder the coins, under bulk, than, order capsules, put the coins in capsules, and ship that way. On one hand take the tubes from the mint and have PCGS deal with it, or deal with it yourself. they recover the cost in the S/H. The POP's on "graded" coins did not budge, so if they were "picked" they never got into holders. >>
I have been told that for the PCGS bulk sets, the bulk submitters can now request only MS69 holders and the rest of the coins that fail to grade MS69 be placed in non-graded BU type holders. >>
It is true, but if A-Mark did that you would have seen the POP's jump, they did not. For instance the MS69 POP of the Mt. hood is 7. >>
But I believe that there can be a considerable lag time between when coins are graded, vs. showing up on pop reports. >>
LOL - OK I will take another shot - The online POP reports get updated every Monday, so "considerable lag" is at most 1 week, there is however a back door on the POP of a coin, if you take a valid cert # for a coin in question, add it to your registry set, you will see the current running total POP on a coin. I did this for the HotSprings, I got 13 MS69's, which is also the same as the web version. From what I can tell, they have not had and graded MS69's by PCGS, or if they did, they did not get very many at all, maybe a handful from 3000 coins. >>
What if a number of coins submitted under a bulk submission received MS69 grades, but haven't been encapsulated yet? Would the lag time clock have started?
<< <i>I don't think amark did any cherry picking. I think they just sent the shipment into get graded. This is a bullion dealer and have little interest or time for graded coins, just bulk sales. IMHO. >>
I know virtually nothing about these sets, so I probably don't understand the situation correctly. But if A-Mark isn't cherry picking, why are the ones I have seen, graded "Choice BU" as opposed to having specific grades on them? Wouldn't they do much better by offering some high grade examples with the grades noted on them? Why bother to pay for grading without high grades designated on the labels? >>
Although no one knows for sure, our speculation was that, it was easier for A-Mark, located in So. Cal, to have PCGS holder the coins, under bulk, than, order capsules, put the coins in capsules, and ship that way. On one hand take the tubes from the mint and have PCGS deal with it, or deal with it yourself. they recover the cost in the S/H. The POP's on "graded" coins did not budge, so if they were "picked" they never got into holders. >>
I have been told that for the PCGS bulk sets, the bulk submitters can now request only MS69 holders and the rest of the coins that fail to grade MS69 be placed in non-graded BU type holders. >>
It is true, but if A-Mark did that you would have seen the POP's jump, they did not. For instance the MS69 POP of the Mt. hood is 7. >>
But I believe that there can be a considerable lag time between when coins are graded, vs. showing up on pop reports. >>
LOL - OK I will take another shot - The online POP reports get updated every Monday, so "considerable lag" is at most 1 week, there is however a back door on the POP of a coin, if you take a valid cert # for a coin in question, add it to your registry set, you will see the current running total POP on a coin. I did this for the HotSprings, I got 13 MS69's, which is also the same as the web version. From what I can tell, they have not had and graded MS69's by PCGS, or if they did, they did not get very many at all, maybe a handful from 3000 coins. >>
What if a number of coins submitted under a bulk submission received MS69 grades, but haven't been encapsulated yet? Would the lag time clock have started? >>
The lag clock would not start, but I would submit to you, that it's not probable that they held them back, because they knew the POP report would give their plan away, so they can violate the mint agreement, after having done the best job of any company in actually complying with the mint rules, so they could keep the MS69's for sale latter, after the market gets swamped with all of these PCGS coins.
<< <i> Grand Canyon: MS69 Hot Springs: MS68 Mt. Hood: MS67 Yellowstone: MS69 Yosemite: MS69PL !!!!!
Nice grades! What was the total turnaround from your ship to getting back your coins? Mine have been there awhile >>
Thanks. I sent them off on Tuesday, January 4. NGC marked them as received on January 11, and the grades were just posted this morning (January 28). I imagine I'll have them in hand by Tuesday or Wednesday of next week.
Question: What is a definition for PL (Proof-Like) from NGC?
Can you spot it by the naked eye? Let say you got a set from A-mark of 5 coins - could you look at them all and guess if any of one of them could be a candidate for PL?
<< <i>Question: What is a definition for PL (Proof-Like) from NGC?
Can you spot it by the naked eye? Let say you got a set from A-mark of 5 coins - could you look at them all and guess if any of one of them could be a candidate for PL?
Thanks! >>
Yes you can tell with the naked eye. NGC is relatively tough to get a PL designation from. The coins fields MUST have deep mirrors and appear like a proof coin. That's a simple summary for you. If you hold your puck up and you can see yourself perfectly from 6 inches away then you have a good shot at the PL designation.
<< <i>Question: What is a definition for PL (Proof-Like) from NGC? Can you spot it by the naked eye? Let say you got a set from A-mark of 5 coins - could you look at them all and guess if any of one of them could be a candidate for PL? >>
Proof issues incorporate the same grades. Proof coins will be so noted with the use of the prefix PF for all grades 1 through 70. Less commonly, but where appropriate, coins displaying proof characteristics indicative of special handling that are not true proofs are described with the grade prefix PL, prooflike, or SP, specimen.
<< <i> Second, I just love this from p.62 under the section "Policy Violations?": "Coin World contacted the Mint for comment on the situation. Gordon Hume, the Mint's deputy director of public affairs, stated, "The United States Mint has no evidence that the Authorized Purchasers are violating the terms and conditions of the program."
HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE??? HOW INCOMPETENT can they be??? HOW many folks have emailed/called/faxed info regarding GC bulk sales?? Just amazing. Only the Govt. >>
I dunno...I'm not surprised. They don't have any hard evidence in hand--that would require an audit. They're being careful to avoid libelous statements, probably. Pretty lame fed-talk BS statement though. Maybe the subtle wink to the reporter didn't make it to print. >>
I meant that they have plenty of evidence that should lead to an audit. Such action would not take long and would likely lead to rapid findings of gross violations of the agreement.
<< <i>My AMark Puck set is due to arrive 1Feb. and my order number was 11xx. >>
I was in the 900s w/no word at all about shipping. I think that someone heard from them that they are not shipping order. This is proof that this is correct.
<< <i>I just read the cover story in CW with the pic of the line at GC where the only actual "public" who got coins from him waited. It kills me how he is always portrayed in a positive light by CW and NN - such the victim, just trying to sell to the public -when he is clearly the worst of the APs in terms of bulk sale violations to date.
Second, I just love this from p.62 under the section "Policy Violations?": "Coin World contacted the Mint for comment on the situation. Gordon Hume, the Mint's deputy director of public affairs, stated, "The United States Mint has no evidence that the Authorized Purchasers are violating the terms and conditions of the program."
HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE??? HOW INCOMPETENT can they be??? HOW many folks have emailed/called/faxed info regarding GC bulk sales?? Just amazing. Only the Govt. >>
<< <i>Yes you can tell with the naked eye. NGC is relatively tough to get a PL designation from. The coins fields MUST have deep mirrors and appear like a proof coin. That's a simple summary for you. If you hold your puck up and you can see yourself perfectly from 6 inches away then you have a good shot at the PL designation. >>
Almost every ATB coin I had met this criteria. They all had deeply reflective fields like mirrors. There must be some other criteria NGC is looking for.
Comments
<< <i>Been off-line for a couple of days, no time to catch up now but...
I just read the cover story in CW with the pic of the line at GC where the only actual "public" who got coins from him waited. It kills me how he is always portrayed in a positive light by CW and NN - such the victim, just trying to sell to the public -when he is clearly the worst of the APs in terms of bulk sale violations to date.
Second, I just love this from p.62 under the section "Policy Violations?": "Coin World contacted the Mint for comment on the situation. Gordon Hume, the Mint's deputy director of public affairs, stated, "The United States Mint has no evidence that the Authorized Purchasers are violating the terms and conditions of the program."
HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE??? HOW INCOMPETENT can they be??? HOW many folks have emailed/called/faxed info regarding GC bulk sales?? Just amazing. Only the Govt. >>
They didn't stipulate needing evidence to start an audit!
WTF! Lazy %#@!#@%#@ ~!!!!!
<< <i>Just thought I'd say...for everyone worried about the price of silver/gold/plat going forward, we seem to have hit bottom and are recovering quite bit of lost ground today.
And yeah...yeah...I know...this isn't the PM forum!
Nice to see green again!!!
Fred, Las Vegas, NV
<< <i>I don't think amark did any cherry picking. I think they just sent the shipment into get graded. This is a bullion dealer and have little interest or time for graded coins, just bulk sales. IMHO. >>
I know virtually nothing about these sets, so I probably don't understand the situation correctly. But if A-Mark isn't cherry picking, why are the ones I have seen, graded "Choice BU" as opposed to having specific grades on them? Wouldn't they do much better by offering some high grade examples with the grades noted on them? Why bother to pay for grading without high grades designated on the labels?
<< <i>
<< <i>I don't think amark did any cherry picking. I think they just sent the shipment into get graded. This is a bullion dealer and have little interest or time for graded coins, just bulk sales. IMHO. >>
I know virtually nothing about these sets, so I probably don't understand the situation correctly. But if A-Mark isn't cherry picking, why are the ones I have seen, graded "Choice BU" as opposed to having specific grades on them? Wouldn't they do much better by offering some high grade examples with the grades noted on them? Why bother to pay for grading without high grades designated on the labels? >>
Although no one knows for sure, our speculation was that, it was easier for A-Mark, located in So. Cal, to have PCGS holder the coins, under bulk, than, order capsules, put the coins in capsules, and ship that way. On one hand take the tubes from the mint and have PCGS deal with it, or deal with it yourself. they recover the cost in the S/H. The POP's on "graded" coins did not budge, so if they were "picked" they never got into holders.
<< <i>I know virtually nothing about these sets, so I probably don't understand the situation correctly. But if A-Mark isn't cherry picking, why are the ones I have seen, graded "Choice BU" as opposed to having specific grades on them? Wouldn't they do much better by offering some high grade examples with the grades noted on them? Why bother to pay for grading without high grades designated on the labels? >>
Because if they had them graded, how would they sell every set for the same price? It was cheaper for them to have them all generically slabbed by PCGS than to have them officially graded.
I really appreciate the value of the FS label... That will save $90 when I send mine in for actual grading.
My Amark set is due to arrive today! On the truck, out for delivery...
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<< <i>I don't think amark did any cherry picking. I think they just sent the shipment into get graded. This is a bullion dealer and have little interest or time for graded coins, just bulk sales. IMHO. >>
I know virtually nothing about these sets, so I probably don't understand the situation correctly. But if A-Mark isn't cherry picking, why are the ones I have seen, graded "Choice BU" as opposed to having specific grades on them? Wouldn't they do much better by offering some high grade examples with the grades noted on them? Why bother to pay for grading without high grades designated on the labels? >>
Although no one knows for sure, our speculation was that, it was easier for A-Mark, located in So. Cal, to have PCGS holder the coins, under bulk, than, order capsules, put the coins in capsules, and ship that way. On one hand take the tubes from the mint and have PCGS deal with it, or deal with it yourself. they recover the cost in the S/H. The POP's on "graded" coins did not budge, so if they were "picked" they never got into holders. >>
Also our Host will do alright with so many of these going to get sent back in for regrading. Its gonna be fun to watch the pop reports in the next couple weeks...........
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
<< <i>
<< <i>I don't think amark did any cherry picking. I think they just sent the shipment into get graded. This is a bullion dealer and have little interest or time for graded coins, just bulk sales. IMHO. >>
I know virtually nothing about these sets, so I probably don't understand the situation correctly. But if A-Mark isn't cherry picking, why are the ones I have seen, graded "Choice BU" as opposed to having specific grades on them? Wouldn't they do much better by offering some high grade examples with the grades noted on them? Why bother to pay for grading without high grades designated on the labels? >>
In addition a poster a couple pages back indicated that
"I spoke to pcgs today. I asked them exactly what Amark's "Choice BU" meant.
I was told it meant "they were graded as a bulk submission and where guaranteed to be between 60 and 70"
<< <i>I just read the cover story in CW with the pic of the line at GC where the only actual "public" who got coins from him waited. It kills me how he is always portrayed in a positive light by CW and NN - such the victim, just trying to sell to the public -when he is clearly the worst of the APs in terms of bulk sale violations to date.
Second, I just love this from p.62 under the section "Policy Violations?": "Coin World contacted the Mint for comment on the situation. Gordon Hume, the Mint's deputy director of public affairs, stated, "The United States Mint has no evidence that the Authorized Purchasers are violating the terms and conditions of the program."
HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE??? HOW INCOMPETENT can they be??? HOW many folks have emailed/called/faxed info regarding GC bulk sales?? Just amazing. Only the Govt. >>
US Mint Contact Info:
Gordon Hume- 202-354-7222
Michael White- m.white@usmint.treas.gov
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<< <i>
<< <i>I don't think amark did any cherry picking. I think they just sent the shipment into get graded. This is a bullion dealer and have little interest or time for graded coins, just bulk sales. IMHO. >>
I know virtually nothing about these sets, so I probably don't understand the situation correctly. But if A-Mark isn't cherry picking, why are the ones I have seen, graded "Choice BU" as opposed to having specific grades on them? Wouldn't they do much better by offering some high grade examples with the grades noted on them? Why bother to pay for grading without high grades designated on the labels? >>
Although no one knows for sure, our speculation was that, it was easier for A-Mark, located in So. Cal, to have PCGS holder the coins, under bulk, than, order capsules, put the coins in capsules, and ship that way. On one hand take the tubes from the mint and have PCGS deal with it, or deal with it yourself. they recover the cost in the S/H. The POP's on "graded" coins did not budge, so if they were "picked" they never got into holders. >>
I have been told that for the PCGS bulk sets, the bulk submitters can now request only MS69 holders and the rest of the coins that fail to grade MS69 be placed in non-graded BU type holders.
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<< <i>I don't think amark did any cherry picking. I think they just sent the shipment into get graded. This is a bullion dealer and have little interest or time for graded coins, just bulk sales. IMHO. >>
I know virtually nothing about these sets, so I probably don't understand the situation correctly. But if A-Mark isn't cherry picking, why are the ones I have seen, graded "Choice BU" as opposed to having specific grades on them? Wouldn't they do much better by offering some high grade examples with the grades noted on them? Why bother to pay for grading without high grades designated on the labels? >>
Although no one knows for sure, our speculation was that, it was easier for A-Mark, located in So. Cal, to have PCGS holder the coins, under bulk, than, order capsules, put the coins in capsules, and ship that way. On one hand take the tubes from the mint and have PCGS deal with it, or deal with it yourself. they recover the cost in the S/H. The POP's on "graded" coins did not budge, so if they were "picked" they never got into holders. >>
I have been told that for the PCGS bulk sets, the bulk submitters can now request only MS69 holders and the rest of the coins that fail to grade MS69 be placed in non-graded BU type holders. >>
It is true, but if A-Mark did that you would have seen the POP's jump, they did not. For instance the MS69 POP of the Mt. hood is 7.
Given that the order number ran up close to 3,000 at Amark, the pop numbers of the 69's haven't risen suddenly, and my coins look decent, I don't think the coins were cherrypicked, or had the 69's held out by PCGS...but who knows?
<< <i>Just received my set from AMark. I haven't seen any graded 69's in person, so I don't know the current standard, but to me, it looks like 4 of the 5 coins have no nicks/marks. My Grand Canyon has one small bag nick, which would keep it lower.
Given that the order number ran up close to 3,000 at Amark, the pop numbers of the 69's haven't risen suddenly, and my coins look decent, I don't think the coins were cherrypicked, or had the 69's held out by PCGS...but who knows? >>
I was originally pretty critical of the sale when they stopped the numbers at 26xx and we discovered they were using PCGS to slab. But since then, the evidence has not supported cherrypicking. We won't know for sure until they sell all of their sets. So far they're at around 3k with more sets slated to sell.
Wondercoin
Sell when?????
<< <i>......I was originally pretty critical of the sale when they stopped the numbers at 26xx and we discovered they were using PCGS to slab. But since then, the evidence has not supported cherrypicking. We won't know for sure until they sell all of their sets. So far they're at around 3k with more sets slated to sell. >>
Sell when????? >>
I thought AMark posted a little while ago that they had enough sets for a few more sales. They did the one with the coupon codes, and maybe they're taking a breather before doing the next. I dunno.
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<< <i>I don't think amark did any cherry picking. I think they just sent the shipment into get graded. This is a bullion dealer and have little interest or time for graded coins, just bulk sales. IMHO. >>
I know virtually nothing about these sets, so I probably don't understand the situation correctly. But if A-Mark isn't cherry picking, why are the ones I have seen, graded "Choice BU" as opposed to having specific grades on them? Wouldn't they do much better by offering some high grade examples with the grades noted on them? Why bother to pay for grading without high grades designated on the labels? >>
Although no one knows for sure, our speculation was that, it was easier for A-Mark, located in So. Cal, to have PCGS holder the coins, under bulk, than, order capsules, put the coins in capsules, and ship that way. On one hand take the tubes from the mint and have PCGS deal with it, or deal with it yourself. they recover the cost in the S/H. The POP's on "graded" coins did not budge, so if they were "picked" they never got into holders. >>
I have been told that for the PCGS bulk sets, the bulk submitters can now request only MS69 holders and the rest of the coins that fail to grade MS69 be placed in non-graded BU type holders. >>
It is true, but if A-Mark did that you would have seen the POP's jump, they did not. For instance the MS69 POP of the Mt. hood is 7. >>
But I believe that there can be a considerable lag time between when coins are graded, vs. showing up on pop reports.
<< <i>Mark: Just a thought while reading all of this ... in theory, wouldn't it be easy enough to simply ASK Amark if any of their submitted coins were going to receive an MS69 numerical grade (as opposed to every single coin receiving the Ch. BU designation)? And, if the answer is a resounding "no", they would probably score a great deal of goodwill by openly reporting that on their site and putting an end to the speculation. And, if the answer is "yes", they could also then state what was to become of them. Make sense?
Wondercoin >>
Mitch, absolutely, if you think you can believe what they say.
<< <i>
<< <i>I don't think amark did any cherry picking. I think they just sent the shipment into get graded. This is a bullion dealer and have little interest or time for graded coins, just bulk sales. IMHO. >>
I know virtually nothing about these sets, so I probably don't understand the situation correctly. But if A-Mark isn't cherry picking, why are the ones I have seen, graded "Choice BU" as opposed to having specific grades on them? Wouldn't they do much better by offering some high grade examples with the grades noted on them? Why bother to pay for grading without high grades designated on the labels? >>
Mark you make a great point, but I think this was a way to get them in capsules of some form and bulk grading this way is slot more economical than going for the grade. They don't deal in graded coins nor have a easy way to sell them except to some other dealer. If that was the plan why even bother, they could off just sold off the mint shipment at profit and moved on.
Fred, Las Vegas, NV
Wondercoin
<< <i>
<< <i>......I was originally pretty critical of the sale when they stopped the numbers at 26xx and we discovered they were using PCGS to slab. But since then, the evidence has not supported cherrypicking. We won't know for sure until they sell all of their sets. So far they're at around 3k with more sets slated to sell. >>
Sell when????? >>
I thought AMark posted a little while ago that they had enough sets for a few more sales. They did the one with the coupon codes, and maybe they're taking a breather before doing the next. I dunno. >>
I was part of the second group last week with the codes. Hit my card and confirmed order, no ship info yet. I think they are still working on the first batch.
Fred, Las Vegas, NV
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<< <i>I don't think amark did any cherry picking. I think they just sent the shipment into get graded. This is a bullion dealer and have little interest or time for graded coins, just bulk sales. IMHO. >>
I know virtually nothing about these sets, so I probably don't understand the situation correctly. But if A-Mark isn't cherry picking, why are the ones I have seen, graded "Choice BU" as opposed to having specific grades on them? Wouldn't they do much better by offering some high grade examples with the grades noted on them? Why bother to pay for grading without high grades designated on the labels? >>
Although no one knows for sure, our speculation was that, it was easier for A-Mark, located in So. Cal, to have PCGS holder the coins, under bulk, than, order capsules, put the coins in capsules, and ship that way. On one hand take the tubes from the mint and have PCGS deal with it, or deal with it yourself. they recover the cost in the S/H. The POP's on "graded" coins did not budge, so if they were "picked" they never got into holders. >>
I have been told that for the PCGS bulk sets, the bulk submitters can now request only MS69 holders and the rest of the coins that fail to grade MS69 be placed in non-graded BU type holders. >>
It is true, but if A-Mark did that you would have seen the POP's jump, they did not. For instance the MS69 POP of the Mt. hood is 7. >>
But I believe that there can be a considerable lag time between when coins are graded, vs. showing up on pop reports. >>
It is certainly important to look at these guys with a critical eye. I don't think we can be too eager to jump on the AMark-fairness train until the selling stops and we can take a look at the numbers--unless those numbers get lost in a BS cloud.
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<< <i>I don't think amark did any cherry picking. I think they just sent the shipment into get graded. This is a bullion dealer and have little interest or time for graded coins, just bulk sales. IMHO. >>
I know virtually nothing about these sets, so I probably don't understand the situation correctly. But if A-Mark isn't cherry picking, why are the ones I have seen, graded "Choice BU" as opposed to having specific grades on them? Wouldn't they do much better by offering some high grade examples with the grades noted on them? Why bother to pay for grading without high grades designated on the labels? >>
Although no one knows for sure, our speculation was that, it was easier for A-Mark, located in So. Cal, to have PCGS holder the coins, under bulk, than, order capsules, put the coins in capsules, and ship that way. On one hand take the tubes from the mint and have PCGS deal with it, or deal with it yourself. they recover the cost in the S/H. The POP's on "graded" coins did not budge, so if they were "picked" they never got into holders. >>
I have been told that for the PCGS bulk sets, the bulk submitters can now request only MS69 holders and the rest of the coins that fail to grade MS69 be placed in non-graded BU type holders. >>
It is true, but if A-Mark did that you would have seen the POP's jump, they did not. For instance the MS69 POP of the Mt. hood is 7. >>
But I believe that there can be a considerable lag time between when coins are graded, vs. showing up on pop reports. >>
LOL - OK I will take another shot - The online POP reports get updated every Monday, so "considerable lag" is at most 1 week, there is however a back door on the POP of a coin, if you take a valid cert # for a coin in question, add it to your registry set, you will see the current running total POP on a coin. I did this for the HotSprings, I got 13 MS69's, which is also the same as the web version. From what I can tell, they have not had and graded MS69's by PCGS, or if they did, they did not get very many at all, maybe a handful from 3000 coins.
I'm beginning to think they are in the same category as the GC as to compliance with dispersing to the public.
First, Apmex started the whole fiasco by gouging by pushing up the price (but 'allowing' a few to be sold to public at the 'reduced' price). Then, they stopped sales.... but later sent coins to a few who had placed orders at original inflated price. In the end, instead of selling 1000 sets to the public collectors, they sold what... perhaps 400? Then, nothing but silence.
They had the coins in hand... they had the means to ship them out (obviously, some received sets). So.... where are the other sets?? How about it Apmex..... are they all gone?
First time poster, but I’ve been following this thread since the week leading up to the Gold Center “public” release.
I drove from Oklahoma to Springfield, IL to camp out and get a set of coins. There is no way that the guy sold 600 sets to the public. There were 250-300 people in that line at the most. The trip was successful, and the next day my coins were off to NGC for grading. I know this is a PCGS forum, but I really like the labels that NGC is using for each park.
Anyway, I just received my grades back from NGC and wanted to share, since I haven’t seen too many recent grades posted.
Grand Canyon: MS69
Hot Springs: MS68
Mt. Hood: MS67
Yellowstone: MS69
Yosemite: MS69PL !!!!!
I still can’t believe that Yosemite received the prooflike designation. This submission was the first time I had ever submitted coins to be graded, and I was worried that I had screwed them up somehow and that they would be returned in body bags. I did forget to submit them as Modern Special, so I didn’t get the Early Release designation.
I have a set from Amark arriving on Monday and my Fidelitrade order has been accepted. I still have no intention of selling any of the coins, but seeing what the two completed auctions for NGC MS69PLs sold for has made me at least consider selling just that coin. I think my two other sets will be shipped off to NGC to see if I can put together a set of 69s.
I just wanted to say thanks to all of you for the knowledge you’ve shared with the forum. If it weren’t for you I’d probably still be trying to get my first set. Happy hunting, and I hope everyone is happy with their sets.
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<< <i>I just read the cover story in CW with the pic of the line at GC where the only actual "public" who got coins from him waited. It kills me how he is always portrayed in a positive light by CW and NN - such the victim, just trying to sell to the public -when he is clearly the worst of the APs in terms of bulk sale violations to date.
Second, I just love this from p.62 under the section "Policy Violations?": "Coin World contacted the Mint for comment on the situation. Gordon Hume, the Mint's deputy director of public affairs, stated, "The United States Mint has no evidence that the Authorized Purchasers are violating the terms and conditions of the program."
HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE??? HOW INCOMPETENT can they be??? HOW many folks have emailed/called/faxed info regarding GC bulk sales?? Just amazing. Only the Govt. >>
US Mint Contact Info:
Gordon Hume- 202-354-7222
Michael White- m.white@usmint.treas.gov >>
I just wanted to come on again and say
WTF!
again.
WTF!
that's what audits are for, right?
WTF!
<< <i>Hey everyone,
First time poster, but I’ve been following this thread since the week leading up to the Gold Center “public” release.
I drove from Oklahoma to Springfield, IL to camp out and get a set of coins. There is no way that the guy sold 600 sets to the public. There were 250-300 people in that line at the most. The trip was successful, and the next day my coins were off to NGC for grading. I know this is a PCGS forum, but I really like the labels that NGC is using for each park.
Anyway, I just received my grades back from NGC and wanted to share, since I haven’t seen too many recent grades posted.
Grand Canyon: MS69
Hot Springs: MS68
Mt. Hood: MS67
Yellowstone: MS69
Yosemite: MS69PL !!!!!
I still can’t believe that Yosemite received the prooflike designation. This submission was the first time I had ever submitted coins to be graded, and I was worried that I had screwed them up somehow and that they would be returned in body bags. I did forget to submit them as Modern Special, so I didn’t get the Early Release designation.
I have a set from Amark arriving on Monday and my Fidelitrade order has been accepted. I still have no intention of selling any of the coins, but seeing what the two completed auctions for NGC MS69PLs sold for has made me at least consider selling just that coin. I think my two other sets will be shipped off to NGC to see if I can put together a set of 69s.
I just wanted to say thanks to all of you for the knowledge you’ve shared with the forum. If it weren’t for you I’d probably still be trying to get my first set. Happy hunting, and I hope everyone is happy with their sets. >>
good for you!
Congrats on that one!
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<< <i>I don't think amark did any cherry picking. I think they just sent the shipment into get graded. This is a bullion dealer and have little interest or time for graded coins, just bulk sales. IMHO. >>
I know virtually nothing about these sets, so I probably don't understand the situation correctly. But if A-Mark isn't cherry picking, why are the ones I have seen, graded "Choice BU" as opposed to having specific grades on them? Wouldn't they do much better by offering some high grade examples with the grades noted on them? Why bother to pay for grading without high grades designated on the labels? >>
Although no one knows for sure, our speculation was that, it was easier for A-Mark, located in So. Cal, to have PCGS holder the coins, under bulk, than, order capsules, put the coins in capsules, and ship that way. On one hand take the tubes from the mint and have PCGS deal with it, or deal with it yourself. they recover the cost in the S/H. The POP's on "graded" coins did not budge, so if they were "picked" they never got into holders. >>
I have been told that for the PCGS bulk sets, the bulk submitters can now request only MS69 holders and the rest of the coins that fail to grade MS69 be placed in non-graded BU type holders. >>
It is true, but if A-Mark did that you would have seen the POP's jump, they did not. For instance the MS69 POP of the Mt. hood is 7. >>
But I believe that there can be a considerable lag time between when coins are graded, vs. showing up on pop reports. >>
LOL - OK I will take another shot - The online POP reports get updated every Monday, so "considerable lag" is at most 1 week, there is however a back door on the POP of a coin, if you take a valid cert # for a coin in question, add it to your registry set, you will see the current running total POP on a coin. I did this for the HotSprings, I got 13 MS69's, which is also the same as the web version. From what I can tell, they have not had and graded MS69's by PCGS, or if they did, they did not get very many at all, maybe a handful from 3000 coins. >>
What if a number of coins submitted under a bulk submission received MS69 grades, but haven't been encapsulated yet? Would the lag time clock have started?
<< <i>
Grand Canyon: MS69
Hot Springs: MS68
Mt. Hood: MS67
Yellowstone: MS69
Yosemite: MS69PL !!!!! >>
More evidence NGC isn't putting MS69 on every coin.
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<< <i>I don't think amark did any cherry picking. I think they just sent the shipment into get graded. This is a bullion dealer and have little interest or time for graded coins, just bulk sales. IMHO. >>
I know virtually nothing about these sets, so I probably don't understand the situation correctly. But if A-Mark isn't cherry picking, why are the ones I have seen, graded "Choice BU" as opposed to having specific grades on them? Wouldn't they do much better by offering some high grade examples with the grades noted on them? Why bother to pay for grading without high grades designated on the labels? >>
Although no one knows for sure, our speculation was that, it was easier for A-Mark, located in So. Cal, to have PCGS holder the coins, under bulk, than, order capsules, put the coins in capsules, and ship that way. On one hand take the tubes from the mint and have PCGS deal with it, or deal with it yourself. they recover the cost in the S/H. The POP's on "graded" coins did not budge, so if they were "picked" they never got into holders. >>
I have been told that for the PCGS bulk sets, the bulk submitters can now request only MS69 holders and the rest of the coins that fail to grade MS69 be placed in non-graded BU type holders. >>
It is true, but if A-Mark did that you would have seen the POP's jump, they did not. For instance the MS69 POP of the Mt. hood is 7. >>
But I believe that there can be a considerable lag time between when coins are graded, vs. showing up on pop reports. >>
LOL - OK I will take another shot - The online POP reports get updated every Monday, so "considerable lag" is at most 1 week, there is however a back door on the POP of a coin, if you take a valid cert # for a coin in question, add it to your registry set, you will see the current running total POP on a coin. I did this for the HotSprings, I got 13 MS69's, which is also the same as the web version. From what I can tell, they have not had and graded MS69's by PCGS, or if they did, they did not get very many at all, maybe a handful from 3000 coins. >>
What if a number of coins submitted under a bulk submission received MS69 grades, but haven't been encapsulated yet? Would the lag time clock have started? >>
The lag clock would not start, but I would submit to you, that it's not probable that they held them back, because they knew the POP report would give their plan away, so they can violate the mint agreement, after having done the best job of any company in actually complying with the mint rules, so they could keep the MS69's for sale latter, after the market gets swamped with all of these PCGS coins.
that PL is a prize.....
...and a set of 69's would be awesome....that is my new goal
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Grand Canyon: MS69
Hot Springs: MS68
Mt. Hood: MS67
Yellowstone: MS69
Yosemite: MS69PL !!!!! >>
More evidence NGC isn't putting MS69 on every coin. >>
Nice grades! What was the total turnaround from your ship to getting back your coins? Mine have been there awhile
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Grand Canyon: MS69
Hot Springs: MS68
Mt. Hood: MS67
Yellowstone: MS69
Yosemite: MS69PL !!!!!
Nice grades! What was the total turnaround from your ship to getting back your coins? Mine have been there awhile >>
Thanks. I sent them off on Tuesday, January 4. NGC marked them as received on January 11, and the grades were just posted this morning (January 28). I imagine I'll have them in hand by Tuesday or Wednesday of next week.
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<< <i>
Grand Canyon: MS69
Hot Springs: MS68
Mt. Hood: MS67
Yellowstone: MS69
Yosemite: MS69PL !!!!!
Nice grades! What was the total turnaround from your ship to getting back your coins? Mine have been there awhile >>
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Yeah, that YOSE 69PL is a stroke of luck. Good call on sending 'em in! Welcome to the boards.
Can you spot it by the naked eye? Let say you got a set from A-mark of 5 coins - could you look at them all and guess if any of one of them could be a candidate for PL?
Thanks!
<< <i>Any PO Boxers get a shipping confirmation e-mail yet or just fedexers? >>
I am a PO Box and no email yet.
Joe
<< <i>Question: What is a definition for PL (Proof-Like) from NGC?
Can you spot it by the naked eye? Let say you got a set from A-mark of 5 coins - could you look at them all and guess if any of one of them could be a candidate for PL?
Thanks! >>
Yes you can tell with the naked eye. NGC is relatively tough to get a PL designation from. The coins fields MUST have deep mirrors and appear like a proof coin. That's a simple summary for you. If you hold your puck up and you can see yourself perfectly from 6 inches away then you have a good shot at the PL designation.
<< <i>Question: What is a definition for PL (Proof-Like) from NGC? Can you spot it by the naked eye? Let say you got a set from A-mark of 5 coins - could you look at them all and guess if any of one of them could be a candidate for PL? >>
Proof issues incorporate the same grades. Proof coins will be so noted with the use of the prefix PF for all grades 1 through 70. Less commonly, but where appropriate, coins displaying proof characteristics indicative of special handling that are not true proofs are described with the grade prefix PL, prooflike, or SP, specimen.
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Second, I just love this from p.62 under the section "Policy Violations?": "Coin World contacted the Mint for comment on the situation. Gordon Hume, the Mint's deputy director of public affairs, stated, "The United States Mint has no evidence that the Authorized Purchasers are violating the terms and conditions of the program."
HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE??? HOW INCOMPETENT can they be??? HOW many folks have emailed/called/faxed info regarding GC bulk sales?? Just amazing. Only the Govt. >>
I dunno...I'm not surprised. They don't have any hard evidence in hand--that would require an audit. They're being careful to avoid libelous statements, probably. Pretty lame fed-talk BS statement though. Maybe the subtle wink to the reporter didn't make it to print. >>
I meant that they have plenty of evidence that should lead to an audit. Such action would not take long and would likely lead to rapid findings of gross violations of the agreement.
<< <i>My AMark Puck set is due to arrive 1Feb. and my order number was 11xx. >>
I was in the 900s w/no word at all about shipping. I think that someone heard from them that they are not shipping order. This is proof that this is correct.
<< <i>Too bad the photos of the PL pieces on the bay have been poor so far. tkachukdude7, could you post a photo of that PL? >>
How much do you think a PL graded 68 or 69 go for?
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<< <i>Too bad the photos of the PL pieces on the bay have been poor so far. tkachukdude7, could you post a photo of that PL? >>
How much do you think a PL graded 68 or 69 go for? >>
A 69PL Yosemite sold for 3500
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<< <i>I just read the cover story in CW with the pic of the line at GC where the only actual "public" who got coins from him waited. It kills me how he is always portrayed in a positive light by CW and NN - such the victim, just trying to sell to the public -when he is clearly the worst of the APs in terms of bulk sale violations to date.
Second, I just love this from p.62 under the section "Policy Violations?": "Coin World contacted the Mint for comment on the situation. Gordon Hume, the Mint's deputy director of public affairs, stated, "The United States Mint has no evidence that the Authorized Purchasers are violating the terms and conditions of the program."
HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE??? HOW INCOMPETENT can they be??? HOW many folks have emailed/called/faxed info regarding GC bulk sales?? Just amazing. Only the Govt. >>
US Mint Contact Info:
Gordon Hume- 202-354-7222
Michael White- m.white@usmint.treas.gov >>
THANKS!!
<< <i>Yes you can tell with the naked eye. NGC is relatively tough to get a PL designation from. The coins fields MUST have deep mirrors and appear like a proof coin. That's a simple summary for you. If you hold your puck up and you can see yourself perfectly from 6 inches away then you have a good shot at the PL designation. >>
Almost every ATB coin I had met this criteria. They all had deeply reflective fields like mirrors. There must be some other criteria NGC is looking for.
<< <i>How much would it cost to grade 5 coins from NGC? With whatever their fastest turn around time is and the next tier under that? >>
Their website will answer your questions!